Tuesday 17 November: It makes no sense for the Prime Minister to be forbidden a Covid test

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its comments facility (now reinstated, but not as good as ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/11/17/lettersit-makes-no-sense-prime-minister-forbidden-covid-test/

1,005 thoughts on “Tuesday 17 November: It makes no sense for the Prime Minister to be forbidden a Covid test”

        2. coffee’s sorted, how are the Govt Eco Nutters and politico-corporate stealth plans imposing absolute surveillance over every aspect of peoples lives performing this am? It got short shrift here and remained that way since the start. UK High Comm still trying their continues self isolation [at the 19th hole at Muthaiga golf club] which is positive news for all the UK citizens here. Merely giving you a snapshot given Kenya Power can pull the plug at any time, so if I happen to disappear, it’s not rudeness, just the way of life here

      2. Morning, AWK.
        What do you do in Nairobi – if I might be so personal? There’s a lot of us with Africa experience on the site (me – Grew up in Nigeria, last visit Sudan & South Sudan for work), so it’s good to see a new face that still lives there!
        EDIT: Politeness… :-((

        1. Currently waiting for the chaos up the rd [sth Sudan] to subside. Have been heavily involved in south Sudan from 1998 through to Independence in 2011 [Troika level stuff plus, running bk then, proper aid in the usual bad land areas]. Post that the commercial side across Grecor [mainly agri but also including elements of BRICs angle]. Now, with no access in / out, enjoying spending a bit more time with daughter here, and fortunately, avoiding the politico garbage bk in UK

    2. Morning, DiK.
      See that you posted an hour ago. Must have been up early / very late.
      ;-))

  4. – Something weird this morning on the News, a few days ago I posted that Devolution has been a disaster for the UK, now Boris has just said it.

    nanananananananaana

    1. Morning Bob – BBC’s Nick Robinson is blasting Boris for this remark. Another Boris bluster. It was a remark to the Scottish conservatives

  5. I’m a bit surprised they haven’t banned this new vaccine on account that it is bad for the environment, apparently it has to be stored at -70C, just think of all the polar bears and the coral reefs that will destroy.

    1. Also, it has been tested on animals. What have the Vegans and the animal rights supporters got to to say about it?

      2. They must ask their conscience whether, if they were dying from a curable disease, curable that is by drugs tested on animals, what then? Would hospitals need to keep the windows locked to help them maintain their moral integrity?

    3. And, Bob, when you consider that the Moderna vaccine has a higher efficacy, and can be stored in a normal refrigerator.

      1. Appears, in tests, to have a marginally higher efficacy (or is it just a different way of calculating?).

        It would seem sensible, at this stage, to continue with all viable options for the time being. No doubt there will be long term decisions to be made at some point; but this is not the moment to start closing doors.

        1. I agree with your comment about continuing with all viable options.

          However Moderna claims a 94% prevention rate with one vaccination, and the vaccine can be stored in the refrigerator.

          Pfizer claims a 92% rate with two vaccinations, and the vaccine has to be stored at -70C.

          Neither has commented on the cost.

          1. The margin of efficacy is too small to be significant. I would be prepared to bet that the “within groups” variation is higher than the “between groups” variation.

            The storage situation can be easily dealt with, it should not be a breaking matter in any way. If farmers can and do (in their thousands) handle Liquid N storage vessels and their contents without any problems then I simply don’t see it as a limiting factor in medicine. Neither should a second injection be regarded, per se, as an issue…. at this stage.

            I’m not denying that Moderna appears, at face value, to have some advantages but there’s still such a long way to go.

            Cost might well be a significant factor but we are a long way from knowing the costs. Or even the attitude of the various makers towards costs.

            Then there is the Oxford vaccine which is almost at the same stage and uses a different modus operandum. It will be interesting to see what their figures look like.

            It is simply far, far too early to make judgements. Wider study/use may throw up side-effects, different efficacies in different groups – so that one might prove to be more useful in the elderly, one better for pregnant women etc. etc. etc. It may well be that there is a place for more than one vaccine and we certainly shouldn’t be counting that out.

            My comment wasn’t intended to disparage… simply to make the case for maintaining a broad field of study.

  7. Morning all. Unbelievable behaviour by Boris. Infantile and demeaning.
    Embarrassing to us all.

    SIR – Where else but in this crazy country, at this critical time, would our political leader, who has already had and recovered from Covid-19, not take the necessary and available test to confirm his good health because it is “against the rules”?.

    Have we lost all notions of proportion and common sense?

    Professor R A Risdon

    London SW13

    SIR – What madness is this? Boris Johnson is told he must self-isolate because he was in contact with someone infected with Covid-19 (report, November 16). He was laid low by the virus earlier this year, so what are the chances of him getting it again? Worldwide, more than 50 million people have had this infection and only a few dozen are said to have had a second attack. So statistically his risk is minuscule.

    Mr Johnson says: “Tthe rules are the rules.”. Well, yes, but surely only if they make sense. That his lack of symptoms means that he doesn’t qualify for a Covid-19 test is a perfect example of the amateur approach of the Government to this pandemic. Surely our Prime Minister can have a test – even every day if he needed it – to allow him to run the country.

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    Is he seeing a doctor regularly while locked down in his flat ? If not, why not? Could anyone imagine President-elect Biden being treated in this manner if he was told he had been in contact with a Covid patient?

    Tony Narula FRCS

    Wargrave, Berkshire

    SIR – Why is Boris Johnson self-isolating? He had Covid-19 earlier in the year and will be immune to the virus.

    Documented recurrent infections with Covid-19 are vanishingly rare so far. Naturally acquired immunity will be stronger than that derived from immunisation.

    Does this mean that, even after immunisation, an individual will still have to isolate for 14 days after contact with a “case”? Does this mean we will have to be immunised every six months, and at what cost?

    Dr Geoffrey Maidment

    Farnham Royal, Buckinghamshire

    SIR – My grandson was sent home from school as he had a cough, and his parents were told to keep him, and themselves, in isolation for two weeks, or get a Covid test.

    No NHS tests were available, so one was bought for £120. It was negative and he returned to school within two days. So why is the Prime Minister not getting tested and carrying on at the helm when the country faces a Covid crisis and crucial Brexit negotiations?

    Alan Belk

    Leatherhead, Surrey

    SIR – If Boris Johnson is not entitled to a test as Prime Minister, would he not be able to have one as an elite sportsman if he was obligingly signed up by one of the Premier League clubs? He is, after all, a premier.

    Elizabeth Stevenson

    London SW5

    1. For a surgeon our Tony is not too smart. Someone should tell him there is no President elect Biden, just sleepy Joe Biden as things stand at the moment.

    2. Well said, Professor Risdon and Tony Narula.

      Concrete proof, if it were ever needed, that access to a top-notch education does not necessarily imbue one with common sense. The opposite is all too frequently the case.

    3. Thank you for posting, Epi;

      I particularly like the one about the PM
      ‘following the rules’! HMG created
      the rules, if the PM doesn’t like them,
      then get them changed!!
      Or is he being orchestrated by
      ‘Carrie [r bag.]’?

  8. Morning again.

    SIR – The Royal Society and British Academy have said that it should be made a criminal offence to spread anti-vax myths (report, November 10). Now the Labour Party is calling for emergency legislation to stop the spread of “dangerous anti-vax content” (report, November 15).

    I am completely in favour of vaccination and will receive the Covid-19 vaccine when it is available, but who is to say what is a “myth” and what a contrary scientific opinion?. After all, there have been historic cases of vaccines being withdrawn following adverse effects. Equally wrong is the Law Commission’s recommendation to extend the definition of hate speech to cover words uttered in a private home (report, November 5).

    We are on a dangerous and slippery slope with such attacks on free expression, which follow the coercive pattern of restrictions on freedom of association and movement imposed during the pandemic.

    If people lie, or distribute misleading information, the answer is to use free speech to challenge and confront them, not to prosecute them.

    Michael Staples

    Seaford, East Sussex

  9. The RSPB should be reminded of its priorities

    sir – I agree with Ian Botham (Comment, November 14) about the RSPB’s wrong-headed approach to the very things it is there to protect.

    I work as a volunteer in the river catchment in south Warwickshire. 
Day in, day out, I see how much the farmers and landowners – yes, including those with shoots – do for the environment, habitat and wildlife. I have never in five years seen or heard of the RSPB taking part in any of the programmes or activities in this area.

    It seems to me that, like the National Trust, the RSPB is more interested in political correctness than protecting birds – a remit of which it needs to be reminded.

    Phil Wragg

    Shipston-on-Stour, Warwickshire

    1. SIR — I stopped supporting the RSPB financially (letters, November 17) after they ripped out a copse of trees at Titchwell Marsh nature reserve — prime breeding habitat for birds — and installed a picnic area for visitors.

      A Grizzly B…

  10. Hungary’s war on woke. Spiked 17 November 2020.

    It is not a love of democracy or concern about Hungary’s health system that motivates this propaganda war against Hungary and its government. It is the fact that, from the globalist standpoint of the Western cultural and political establishments, the values promoted by the Hungarian government are antithetical to ‘our worldview’. In the Hungarian government’s upholding of traditional values, many of which are associated with Christianity, or its defence of national sovereignty, the likes of the European Union or Big Tech see something archaic and threatening.

    The EU establishment, in particular, regards tradition as either irrelevant or as an object of scorn. And it is especially hostile towards traditional customs and practices associated with family life, the socialisation of children, and sexual relations between people.

    Morning everyone. Though Soros gets a great deal of the blame here on Nottl I’m pretty sure that a large amount of the propaganda and cash used for undermining the status quo here in the UK comes from the EU.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/11/16/hungarys-war-on-woke/

    1. mng, agreed re funding source, which reverts to Soros back channelling again. That said, Soros doen’t like the fact he’s been kicked out of Hungary and is on their “watch list” should he return, maybe irrelevant to EU, but not to Hungary. This reverts back to Hungary not accepting any percentage of illegal immigrants [including Soros]. Orbán won’t dance tothe EU / gloabilst tune.

      Trust you’re back on an even keel, of sorts, this am?

  11. Hancock’s ‘let’s keep the scare factor high brain storming committee’ has now introduced its latest idea, Long Covid. The bastards are not going to give up until the economy is completely broken and the population scared beyond reason. If the Danes can put a stop to their government’s plans – it will be interesting to see how long that lasts – then so can the British.

    https://twitter.com/andrew_lilico/status/1328419307064320000

    1. Can someone please translate for me the term in sign language where one clutches the stomach and holds the nose?

    3. This virus remains a potent threat to anyone of any age & any background.

      No it isn’t! That is the whole point. It is dangerous only to a minority and fatal to even less!

      1. 326488+ up ticks,
        Morning AS,
        Say it enough times via the junior schools along with the multiplication
        tables, by rote ” the virus is a potent threat” 2×2=4, 3×2=6 carried into the future for controlling political purposes.

      2. Morning, Araminta.

        If I may be permitted.

        This virus government remains a potent threat to anyone of any age & any background.

        1. 326488+ up ticks,
          Morning KtK,
          The whole lab/lib/con coalition has been for decades, there is many a young paedophile victim will bear witness to that.

        2. applying Halfcock’s mental logic KtK: This virus [aka people] remains a potential threat to anyone in Govt or connected to it of any age and any background

      3. TR News states that 55 million people in the world have had Covid-19, and 1.3 million have died of it.

        My calculator says that is a 2.3% fatality rate. About the same rate as normal winter ‘flu in Britain.

        ….and for this we trash our economy?

        There must be an ulterior motive!

        1. Average mortality rate for ‘flu is <1%. Typically around 0.1% (though higher in some seasons). So SARS-CoV-2 is considerably higher.

          Not, I would agree, high enough to trash the economy, but high enough to need a fair amount of care and attention.

          Conspiracy theories are, invariably, even more ridiculous than they are tedious.

    4. I can’t watch a government minister lecturing the country from a podium decorated with kindergarten style instructions!
      My workplace is full of silly posters depicting comic superheroes wearing masks. Please. Some of us left primary school years ago.

      1. One of the hospitals where I work has signs everywhere saying “You are all heroes”.

        No we’re not. I haven’t had to do anything differenlybexcept work from home on some days, which I actually prefer. (No sitting in rush hour queues for one thing).

        I know many staff who have positively milked the shielding and furlough schemes. One bloke (high risk – COPD and sickle cell), spent three months at home doing nothing. When we finally managed to buy enough laptops to go around for all the high risk people to WFH, he went off sick the next day, with stress. Hes been off now for another four months.
        C*ck.

        1. I am currently working in a small company that makes only a modest profit every year. Everyone is conscious all the time of the need to get work done, in order that our customers will pay for it.
          Someone like that could put them into the red!
          But your story reminds me of what I saw when I worked in local government, many years ago. One boss was shamelessly “sick” until a member of the royal family wanted to talk to him. Miraculously, he rose from his sick bed and came to work the same day!

        2. My local secondary school has a banner exclaiming “you are amazing!” Only in the sense of “what a piece of work is man”, folks.

  12. Lewis Hamilton has always been judged by absurd double standards — every excuse for withholding his knighthood is invalid. 17 November 2020.

    It is Hamilton’s cross to bear that he pursues a sport whose fans and administrators are overwhelmingly white, and that his homeland’s attitude towards him, as a consequence, feels far less proprietorial. In one sense, Hamilton might cease to care whether a knighthood eventuates or not. But in another, such an honour might yet be his most valued prize of all, as a sign of validation from a country that has been far too slow to accept him unconditionally.

    Well since he obviously despises them one would think that he would be indifferent to either their approval or awards!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2020/11/17/lewis-hamilton-has-always-judged-absurd-double-standards-every/

    1. I hope that Hamilton will now find a racing car designed and built by exclusively black engineers and constructors and get about him an exclusively black support team. This will doubtless enable him to go on and on winning his car races.

      1. He could even start his own team. He could choose between employing the best candidates who apply to join him…….or having a team full of people of colour*.

        *Is that the right term? I cant keep up.

    2. Quite so, Minty. He may be British by birth but turned his back on this country when he shoved off to live in Monaco. He doesn’t pay a penny in tax here, either. Besides, knighthoods for sportsmen who make vast fortunes for themselves are just an abuse of the system.

      2. On the other hand, he is unquestionably the best current F1 racing driver in the World and has got there by talent and determination from a very modest background; he has never been associated with drugs, firearms, alcohol abuse, theft, violence to woman; he is in a profession with a very, very short shelf life so, like many other sportsmen and celebrities, choses to live where he can maximise his earnings; he is, whatever anyone thinks, proud of Britain and often wraps himself in the Union Flag after wins; his wins result in the National Anthem being played and the Union Flag being displayed on the winners podium, thus reminding the world of British skill and expertise; and he has rarely been called into question for unsportsmanlike behaviour on the track. Sure, there are some things he has said in his early days that he might have been wise not to have done, and his promotion of BLM will have upset a lot of people. However, if young black men need good role models rather than drug dealing violent gangsters, Lewis Hamilton is a pretty good one. In my view, he is as deserving of a knighthood every bit as much as those who do get one.

        1. His background and education is distinctly middle-class rather then “modest” and he’s been called out for unsportsmanlike behaviour on and off the track on quite a few occasions and has been very reluctant to apologise when apology was clearly due. His comments about race are not only stupid, they are deeply insulting to his mother. Everything else you have written is true and stands to his credit. I would question whether he is deserving of knighthood, but then I would do likewise about many others who have received one; so that I suppose I pretty much agree with you on that point.

          1. His father lived in a council house in Stevenage and worked in IT for the railways. He took on extra jobs to supplement his income to find the money to support Lewis’s racing – selling double glazing, washing dishes, putting up ‘for sale’ boards for estate agents and so on. That’s pretty modest by any standard.

            He had been “called out” on a number of occasions for breaching the very complex F1 racing rules but for unsportsmanlike behaviour? One or two, perhaps, but can you cite more than that? I can certainly cite a number of F1 top-level F1 drivers who have long records of genuine unsportsmanlike conduct.

            Yes, he has refused to apologise on occasion for breaking the rules, but generally very soon after a race when emotions are high. And it has more often than not been for breaches of rules when his culpability was marginal. Mostly it was in his early days and he is generally silent or accepting when he is “called out” these days.

            How do you know that his comments about race are deeply insulting to his mother? Unless you know her very well personally, I suggest that you are merely repeating gossip. I used to think his views on race were stupid but when I have researched what he actually said and can place them in context, they are quite thought-provoking.

            How many F1 races have you watched this year?

          2. His father was an IT consultant and Lewis attended an independent RC school. Not modest.

            I made no comparison with other drivers – and I certainly didn’t say that was worse than others.

            Refusal to apologise for rule breaking isn’t acceptable even in the heat of the moment.

            His mother is white. His comments about white people insult her along with anyone else. And yes, I’ve read them.

            Whether or not I watch motor sport is a) irrelevant and b) none of your business.

          3. Do you ever read your comments and not wonder why so many other contributors to this forum are constantly complaining about you? If I made some disparaging and critical comments about, say, the indolent and indulgent lifestyle of farmers, you would be one of the first to ask if I had ever done any farming. Stop being such a know-all who takes umbrage against anyone who calls you out over some comment based entirely on what you have just read in Wikipaedia and exposes your almost total lack of knowledge about so many subjects. You come across as a bitter and twisted old woman.

          4. If you wrote that I wouldn’t need to ask if you had done any farming … I would know with absolute certainty that you hadn’t.

            I’ve never called out anything on the basis of what I read on Wikipaedia, though I have, occasionally, used it as a back-up reference.

            I haven’t taken umbrage at your comment. I’ve replied to it, politely and without making personal remarks.

            You, on the other hand, seem to have written a direct personal attack with no visible foundation.

          6. You throw me a heap of hate and call a polite answer justification.

            You don’t have a case, but you have proved that you don’t like facts.

      3. ‘Morning, Hugh.

        It said on the News last night that although he lives in Monaco, he does pay some tax here. I don’t know the details.

  13. ‘Morning, Peeps.

    Charles Moore today:

    Debate continues to rage about whether next summer’s exams should be scrapped. Lord Baker, who invented GCSEs as education secretary in the Eighties, is one of those who think they should be. He says it is already too late for schools badly affected by the coronavirus to catch up: teacher assessment should take the place of exams.

    It is hard for outsiders to judge the practicalities here. Obviously it would be unfair to make pupils sit exams for which, through no fault of their own, they have not been properly prepared.

    Yet abandoning exams is a big step, for wider reasons. As the head of Ofsted, Amanda Spielman, has already pointed out, many schools fear that older pupils “simply won’t return to schools” for the rest of the academic year if there is no exam to work towards.

    There is a reason for this: a public examination is supposed to be an objective standard. That is what makes it valuable to employers and to pupils’ self-esteem. Take it away, and both the pupil and the outside world are left floundering.

    “Why bother, if there’s no guarantee I’ve learnt anything?” a pupil might reasonably ask.

    Apply this argument to the driving test. It is currently much harder, because of Covid, to have driving lessons, and to take the test itself. But imagine if it were suggested that driving instructors could assess their own pupils and pass them. The incentive of the instructor would be to pass as many as possible.

    There would be a public outcry, because of the danger to others on the road. (There would also be an outcry from any would-be drivers who had been failed on the say-so of one instructor.)

    This probably won’t happen – though something like it did during the Second World War – because people seriously do not want to be killed by bad drivers. But we ought to recognise that GCSEs and A-levels, while not literally a matter of life and death, are certainly a matter of life chances. The less objective they are, the worse life chances they offer.

    For more than half a century, there has been a strong movement among some teachers against exams. Observing (often correctly) that exams are rather crude measurements, they jump (usually incorrectly) to the conclusion that we would be better off without them. That lobby still thrives. One must fear that if our teaching system cannot manage proper exams by next summer, 15 months after Covid first loomed, they will never be fully restored.

    “What was an exam, Granny?” children will ask. “Oh well, dear, it was one of those funny old things which people used to think important – like playing with friends, or holding hands – but it went out with Covid.”

    Lessons from history for political spouses

    Supporters of Boris Johnson’s fiancée, Carrie Symonds, defend her right to intervene. She has been criticised for allegedly trying to dictate whom her man appoints. They are probably right that talk of “Lady Macbeth” is a weapon from the old misogynist tool-box which regards any woman with power as suspect.

    They should acknowledge, however, that the subject is a tricky one, and has got trickier in modern times.

    Until 1997, there was never really “a power couple” in 10 Downing Street. True, Denis Thatcher had enjoyed a successful career in business, but by the day his wife became our first woman prime minister, he had retired. The spouses of other prime ministers (all of them women) had often been remarkable people, but none of them had a career in the modern sense.

    Cherie Blair, on the other hand, was a barrister, indeed a more successful one than her husband Tony, and had also been selected as a Labour candidate. In the general election of 1983, he won a seat and she didn’t.

    If it had been the other way round, who knows what would have happened? Both parties to the marriage were career people. It therefore felt natural to Mrs Blair to get involved when her husband was prime minister, and to resent people’s objections. After all, she felt qualified. Yet the objections were not completely ill-founded: in a democracy, after all, you elect the person on the ballot paper. The spouse has no mandate.

    Now that people frequently pick spouses on a basis of career equality, they frequently choose mates in similar trades, thus adding to the cliquey feeling which voters dislike. As a former head of communications for the Conservative Party, Ms Symonds will of course feel that she has a right to say something when she thinks 10 Downing Street is failing to communicate. Perhaps she does; but it is inescapable that, by pitching herself into the controversy, she will raise the temperature and turn more people against her husband-to-be.

    Is there malicious intent behind Covid “pinging”?

    No doubt the Test-and-Tracers who “pinged” the Prime Minister at the weekend were only doing their job. If he was in contact with a colleague who subsequently tested positive, he must self-isolate. As Boris himself says, “The rules are the rules”.

    But one must hope that there are rules about who applies the rules. If one knows that, by a well-aimed ping, one can lock up an important person for a fortnight, the temptation for some to do so will prove irresistible.

    If I were running a trouble-making organisation such as Extinction Rebellion, I would infiltrate my activists into the NHS Test-and-Trace system before you could say “Dido Harding”.

    1. SWMBO and I are not in the same profession, and indeed we were once either side of a contract – where cross-talk (pillow talk?) could well be seen as generating a significant conflict of interest. So, we agreed right up front that we would not talk about contractual issues to each other outside of formal meetings (of which there weer few). We both saw the point, and agreed to keep that part of business outside of our family life, and it worked well.

    2. 326488+ up ticks,
      Morning HJ,
      I do believe that charlie Moore would be better employed in digging out the REAL facts & intended political agenda behind this covid 19.

      I see us currently as facing four major plagues brought about by ovis input on a regular basis, namely lab/lib/con being three, & covid 19 building into the forth for future political use.

      People power if coupled up with common sense works, and really should be tried.

    3. Thank goodness I was school before all this levelling down malarkey took a hold.
      I can happily drift along and then go for the big one at exam time; based on my classwork, I wouldn’t have an ‘O’ level to my name.

      1. I remember cramming & cramming for O- & A-levels. A year later it was all forgotten (except for languages).

  16. Meanwhile, in the Colonial Office’s back garden https://www.gov.uk/government/news/tackling-modern-slavery-in-drc-call-for-bids the title of which should have been “extending modern slavery” to benefit Amani Gold, AngloGold Ashanti, Apple, ARC Minerals Ltd, Armadale Capital Plc, AVZ Minerals Limited, Banro Corporation, Google, Loncor Resources Inc, Mawson West Limited, MMG Limited, Glencore Xstrata Plc, Ivanhoe Mines, Katanga Mining Limited among others.

    Be quick, project[s] to start next week

    1. ‘Morning AW

      “a strong track record of successful project delivery in DRC and
      will be able to draw on previous lessons learned to mitigate against
      unintended consequences of interventions

      active consideration of gender inequality by ensuring that where
      possible, women are offered places in any training and capacity building
      activities funded by HMG and included in training and consultative
      panels”
      OK here we go………..
      Two battalions of paratroopers will secure Kinshasa airport to facilitate the arrival of at least one and preferable two divisions of light infantry,such divisions to be made up largely of Gurkhas and Indian troops who are itching to repair the humiliations they had imposed under previous UN mandates,they know the turf,throw in a leavening of Kurds for extra savagery
      A10 Warthogs and Apache gunships will be deployed for close air support

      Mission: The extermination of every raping murdering militia down to the last man
      (See West Side Boys for details)
      Rules of Engagement: None, shoot every flucker in the face who even looks at you sideways
      Meanwhile SAS,SBS to be deployed to perform redition of senior execs of all companies involved in the trade,not to the Hague where a slap on the wrist would be given but to be tried where their crimes happened the DRC and if found guilty suitable penalties are available under law
      Once areas are secured specialist trainers will train DRC women as rape counsellors,much needed after decades of brutal rapine by the militias
      Okaaay that covers the bases for a first draft,please forward the 10 million grant so I can flesh out the details

      1. A10 Warthogs ?? – -the last mention on a program made years ago said the A10s were being phased out as too expensive. When some were here in the UK I used to hear them first ( very odd but distinctive sound ) then see them.

      2. Your opening min para, suggest “issue all locals with a smart phone”.

        Mission: [Operation Certain Death] : Extermination of every raping mudering coporate Embassy down to the last brick / prick [yr choice of format].

        Rules of Engagement: Don’t get drunk or high, before mid day.

        Meanwhile SAS,SBS to be deployed to perform rendition of senior execs of all companies involved in the trade,not to the Hague where a slap on the wrist would be given but to be tried where their crimes happened in the DRC and when found guilty suitable penalties are available under customary law.

        Once areas are secured specialist trainers will train DRC women as rape counsellors, much needed after decades of brutal rapine by the militias and payment BBC licence fee [overseas rates apply] from their field allowance.

        As stated, no advance payments allowable, but your vaccines are covered.

  17. Good morning all. I see that the “anti-vaxxer” propaganda is being ramped-up in the DT. No comments allowed on this story, about a very convenient stereotype of a conspiracy-theorist (a racist taxi-driver no less!):

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/people-infected-anti-vax-lies-should-made-illegal/

    As with any controversial topic nowadays, it is impossible to have a balanced debate without being shut down as a racist, transphobe, climate denier and now anti-vaxxer.

    It usually takes 10-15 years to develop and test a new vaccine. There is a reason for this. Does it make me a tin-foil hat conspiracy theorist if I am just a teensy bit worried about taking one which was developed in six months?

    https://www.historyofvaccines.org/index.php/content/articles/vaccine-development-testing-and-regulation

    2. Having worked in IT support for the R&D department of a major Pharmaceutical company, I know how rigorous and time-consuming the procedure is for developing and producing a new drug or vaccine. The drug company has to satisfy the regulating authorities e.g. the US FDA, the European MCA, of the safety and efficacy of any new product. The process is painstaking and cannot be rushed.

      I would be very wary of any vaccine or drug which has taken only a few months to produce instead of the many years it usually takes. The long-term effects cannot be known. Any criticism of ‘anti-vaxxers’ in this case sees to me to be an attempt to silence people who have genuine concerns about these new, insufficiently-tested products.

    4. Morning, JK.
      We have spent the better part of a year being governed by panic.
      I wonder how many loo roll tubes and yards of sticky backed plastic were used to create the competing vaccines?

    5. Remember that Celia Walden is the wife of the delightful Piers Morgan, and she doesn’t allow comments! How’s that for a debate?

    7. Perhaps they have been perfecting and developing the vaccine for 15 years.
      It has to be kept in well blow freezing storage, perhaps it just being thawed out !!

  19. 326488+ up ticks,
    Morning Each,
    What is really needed to combat the dangerous political twatology is a (indigenous only) peoples re-set, maybe a party under the “Great Charter of freedoms” banner would hit the spot.

    Let us have a repeat,re-run a re-set even, of the Magna Carta in ALL it’s glory as set out on 15 June 1215.
    I want to see ALL of it returned.

    The fight is definitely on regarding governance party’s vee peoples of decency if we, the peoples of decency, lose out then in the near future the peoples are going to get, in spades, what they have been voting for these last three decades ie sinking deeper into the sh!te until oblivion is realised as a nation.
    Ps,
    The political enema are treating the Magna Carta as they have done with the Brexitexit.

  20. Planet Normal …. worth a listen:

    This week on Planet Normal: Why do ‘experts’ keep claiming the NHS will be overrun by Covid?
    Seven Nightingale hospitals sit dormant as the feared deluge of coronavirus hasn’t materialised – while non-Covid patients are losing out

    By
    Allison Pearson
    and
    Liam Halligan
    16 November 2020 • 6:00am

    Planet Normal is 25! We’ve reached our quarter century, having recorded 25 episodes of our weekly podcast, which is released every Thursday (listen to the latest episode on the audio player below).

    Our rocket of right thinking, our capsule of common sense, first blasted off in May, during the first Covid lockdown. Since then, 25 guest interviewees have climbed aboard the Planet Normal spaceship, including a string of scientists, policymakers and commentators questioning the Government’s approach to fighting this pandemic.

    We’ve given voice, also, to front-line NHS staff – including our latest guest, “Clare”, an experienced GP (not her real name) who worries the NHS has become “a National Covid Service”, with non-Covid patients losing out.

    New research indeed indicates that between January and August, some 4.7 million fewer people were referred to hospital in England, compared with the same eight-month period in 2019. Numbers granted routine NHS operations – such as hip, knee and cataract surgery – are down over a third, according to the Health Foundation, a respected think tank.

    Around 140,000 people have waited over a year for a routine operation due to the NHS focus on Covid, the highest level since 2008. And Macmillan Cancer Support – one of the charities supported by this year’s Telegraph Christmas Charity Appeal – estimates that 50,000 people across Britain now have cancers still undiagnosed because of Covid-related disruptions and delays to NHS check-ups, screenings and referrals during the March-to-July lockdown alone.

    It could take over 18 months to identify such individuals, Macmillan say, raising grave medical dangers. An additional 33,000 existing cancer patients are still waiting on potentially life-saving treatments delayed due to Covid. The NHS has made progress towards reopening full non-Covid services since the pandemic’s spring peak. But there is, says the Health Foundation, “still a potentially huge hidden backlog, as far fewer routine procedures are being undertaken compared to last year”.

    Since the first lockdown, attitudes towards the NHS have hardened. Initial fears that 500,000 might die from this virus if no action was taken, with the health service overwhelmed, proved unfounded. The anticipated deluge of Covid patients never materialised, leaving the Nightingale field hospitals – NHS England built seven, at a cost of £220 million – virtually empty.

    Many regular hospitals were also effectively mothballed as most non-Covid treatments were cancelled – sparking a sharp rise in avoidable deaths from heart attacks and strokes at home, as well as countless missed cancer diagnoses. Tens of thousands may end up dying from non-Covid conditions because of lockdown – which has fuelled discontent at Boris Johnson’s recent decision to impose a further four weeks of restrictions, reversing his earlier promise.

    As national lockdown was reinstated earlier this month, fresh claims the NHS would be overrun were rejected by rebel Conservative MPs, who managed to establish that official projections of 4,000 Covid deaths a day by Christmas were wrong.

    Amid the doom graphs and lockdown gloom, last week’s news of a Pfizer vaccine was a welcome and much-needed ray of sunshine. However, the newly-formed Covid Research Group of sceptical Tory backbenchers is concerned that signs of a vaccine may now encourage Johnson to maintain lockdown beyond early December – a view shared by many Planet Normal listeners, not least the medics among you.

    “I’m not aware of a single student who has been hospitalised with Covid, nor become ill,” says Dr Jai Chitnavis, a fellow in medicine at Cambridge University. “Yet there is a virtual police state operating in most colleges – and for what? A phoney pandemic.”

    Anthony, an NHS consultant surgeon, says internal NHS databases already show “a rise in the share of cases presenting with upstaged cancer since March, and more delays because many now have other chronic conditions so out of control they need to be medically sorted out before being fit enough to undertake surgery or other cancer treatment”.

    Parliament was “deliberately misled” over this latest lockdown, Anthony says, “because MPs were told the NHS was close to collapse, when briefings to hospital managers showed it certainly was not”.

    NHS bosses and ministers reject such claims. And Government warnings that the NHS can’t cope may once again be advanced, along with hope of impending mass vaccination, to justify keeping this national lockdown in place.

    For now, the headlines are all about vaccines and Downing Street “Cummings and goings”. But when this pandemic is over, the failure of the NHS to treat countless non-Covid patients during lockdown will loom large in the debate about its future.

    Meet a GP whose job has become virtually impossible in lockdown
    This is the second time we have had to disguise the identity – and voice – of a guest. Doctors and nurses who speak out to inform us about problems in the NHS can expect retaliatory action, even though it’s the public that pays their wages.

    When “Clare”, a London GP, emailed Planet Normal, it was a real cry from the heart. “I can’t tell you how distressing my work has become,” she wrote, “such that I finish most days in tears.” Clare said that, since lockdown, her job has become virtually impossible. She is unable to get hospital tests, appointments or treatments for her patients. “What services there are are telephone and many of these get cancelled. Patients are told to go back to their GP. But we cannot do cancer treatments and operations!”

    Many Telegraph readers have complained bitterly about GP surgeries turning into Fort Knox. Clare shares their frustration while offering a more nuanced perspective. Many GPs like her have been working flat out. It is secondary care – hospitals – that turned into “the National Covid Service”.

    Because clubs and daycare facilities are closed, the elderly man whose wife has dementia has no respite. Neither does the new mum with a baby who can’t be visited, not even by her own parents. Clare says she would love to have Boris and Matt Hancock sit in with her at the surgery to witness the extraordinary distress of ordinary people. She begs for a “more balanced approach” that gives equal weight to illnesses besides Covid.

    What a privilege to hear from such a compassionate, thoughtful woman. And how shocking it is that Clare is thinking of quitting the job she loved for 30 years.

    What ‘Clare’ has to say about the NHS
    “Vast numbers of patients are distressed and frustrated because it’s so difficult to get treatment for anything other than Covid.”

    “I was concerned about a patient I thought had skin cancer. I phoned him a week or so after I [had referred him] and said: ‘Have you got your appointment?’ He said no. So I phoned the administrator and she said: ‘We are snowed under. I’ve got 150 people who need an urgent appointment and no appointment to give them.’”

    “It is not a National Health Service. It’s a National Covid Service. And we do not have a health minister, we have a Covid minister. It seems that this is the only disease that counts. The Government has said another lockdown is necessary so we do not have to make choices about who lives and who dies. But, actually, they have already made the system decide who lives and who dies with their policy.”

    Star dispatches
    “The NHS is treated like a sacred cow – but should really be sent for slaughter. Nations like France, Germany and Denmark have health care accessible to all, but with clinical outcomes often far better than ours.” Ian

    “Planet Normal shines a beam of light amid the doom and gloom of the so-called experts. Keep up the good work – you’re helping me to cope!” Teta

    “When the history of this pandemic is written, ‘The Science’ will make Blair’s ‘Dodgy Dossier’ look like a work of great veracity and moral rectitude. We’ve been had.” Alex

    “I’ve no doubt you have brought hope and sanity to so many people whose doubts and concerns are not being represented by the mainstream broadcast media.” Rachel

    “Planet Normal has stepped in where so many other journalists and commentators have so dismally failed. You have helped me navigate the madness – thank you, Allison and Liam.” Freddie

    | Top Comments
    N Tobin
    16 Nov 2020 8:21AM
    The NHS is overrun, by incompetent management

    Flag147Like
    Reply
    andrew walker
    16 Nov 2020 7:40AM
    The failure of this government to carry out any meaningful impact assessment to quantify the likely direct and indirect harm as a result of their lockdown policies is the ‘elephant in the room’.

    When this is combined with the deliberate scare tactics, dodgy data and discredited ‘experts’ like Neil Ferguson this will prove to be the biggest scandal in UK politics in 300 years.

    This has destroyed any remaining trust that the people have in their elected leaders along with the economy and the prospects of millions.

    You can see now that public attitudes are starting to harden as more people see through their lies. My prediction is that if they continue with their now discredited lockdown policies into next year they will be removed from power by any means necessary. The public response will be overwhelming.

    Flag134Like
    Reply
    Simon Coulter
    16 Nov 2020 7:51AM
    What have NHS resources dedicated to all kinds of disciplines other than respiratory ailments been doing while the NS has been panicked over coronavirus?

    Have facilities, state of the art equipment, operating theatres, highly skilled staff and wards simply been idle?

    Flag96Unlike
    Reply
    margaret casey
    16 Nov 2020 8:32AM
    @Simon Coulter

    Well not exactly idle but a consultant in a Scottish hospital has been at his holiday home in Croatia since April, on full pay.

    Flag71Unlike
    Reply
    Vernon Skinner
    16 Nov 2020 7:50AM
    Thank you Allison and Liam for broadcasting the truth about all this. My question is – why aren’t more people questioning what’s being done in the name of a respiratory virus? Why are most people even going above and beyond what lockdown 2 requires? Why are we being face-masked when live COVID is almost absent from most communities? Why are people being fined outrageous amounts when face masks do nothing (- rhinoviruses, for example, have not been reduced in incidence by face mask wearing)? And why have Sweden fared no worse, who had no lockdowns, no face masks? I would like to see removal of the CV legislation, since none of the restrictive measures have helped (see Cummins for the counter-evidence), but are destroying our way of life.

    Flag86Like
    Reply

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/16/week-planet-normal-do-experts-keep-claiming-nhs-will-overrun/#comment

    1. What it is doing it preparing another funeral pyre of “deadwood” where patients who might have been treated successfully are now past the stage where they can be and will now have all the underlying diseases that Covid feeds on so happily.

      This will lead to anopther spike in deaths at the time it rages through the already sick, which in turn will be used to justify further lockdowns to protect the NHS and so it will continue until government gets a grip or an acceptable and safe vaccine is produced.

      This year, next year, sometime, never, who knows?

    2. You should post the 1984 ‘minutes of hate’ big screen Hancock when addressing the ‘troops’ via video link at the London Nightgale Hospital when it open (but has barely been used). Scared the living daylights out of me.

    4. And as they bring the needle closer the well know and old adage “just a small prick” will remind us of him.

  22. Johnson’s loony isolation – Telegraph Letters:

    SIR – Where else but in this crazy country, at this critical time, would our political leader, who has already had and recovered from Covid-19, not take the necessary and available test to confirm his good health because it is “against the rules”?.

    Have we lost all notions of proportion and common sense?

    Professor R A Risdon
    London SW13

    SIR – What madness is this? Boris Johnson is told he must self-isolate because he was in contact with someone infected with Covid-19 (report, November 16). He was laid low by the virus earlier this year, so what are the chances of him getting it again? Worldwide, more than 50 million people have had this infection and only a few dozen are said to have had a second attack. So statistically his risk is minuscule.

    Mr Johnson says: “Tthe rules are the rules.”. Well, yes, but surely only if they make sense. That his lack of symptoms means that he doesn’t qualify for a Covid-19 test is a perfect example of the amateur approach of the Government to this pandemic. Surely our Prime Minister can have a test – even every day if he needed it – to allow him to run the country.

    Is he seeing a doctor regularly while locked down in his flat ? If not, why not? Could anyone imagine President-elect Biden being treated in this manner if he was told he had been in contact with a Covid patient?

    Tony Narula FRCS
    Wargrave, Berkshire

    SIR – Why is Boris Johnson self-isolating? He had Covid-19 earlier in the year and will be immune to the virus.

    Documented recurrent infections with Covid-19 are vanishingly rare so far. Naturally acquired immunity will be stronger than that derived from immunisation.

    Does this mean that, even after immunisation, an individual will still have to isolate for 14 days after contact with a “case”? Does this mean we will have to be immunised every six months, and at what cost?

    Dr Geoffrey Maidment
    Farnham Royal, Buckinghamshire

    SIR – My grandson was sent home from school as he had a cough, and his parents were told to keep him, and themselves, in isolation for two weeks, or get a Covid test.

    No NHS tests were available, so one was bought for £120. It was negative and he returned to school within two days. So why is the Prime Minister not getting tested and carrying on at the helm when the country faces a Covid crisis and crucial Brexit negotiations?

    Alan Belk
    Leatherhead, Surrey

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/11/17/lettersit-makes-no-sense-prime-minister-forbidden-covid-test/

    1. My suspicion is that he will use his ‘isolation’ as a means to distance himself from a Brexit sellout.

      2. and he doesn’t want to fork out £120 for a virus he knows he hasn’t got, his bint’s got his wallet and he’s avoiding announcing lockdown extensions because he’s exposed knowing no one will buy into it

      1. Were they breaking the law, though? The law was one imposed by German occupation through force of arms; it wasn’t Dutch law and I doubt that, in international law, the Dutch people were obliged to obey it. Of course, the threat of a quick death, preceded by painful interrogation, makes disobedience unattractive.

        1. I’ve argued already that law imposed by force of arms is not the same as law from one’s own government in peace-time.

          Not that law in peace-time is necessarily good law; but it does, at the very least, have an election behind it.

          1. Yes, I remember your post but the truth always bears repeating or, if you like, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

        2. Interesting point.
          How much of our current suppression is actually the law as opposed to guidelines?

          1. I rather expect that, if you asked three eminent constitutional lawyers, you would get five different answers…….. and some very large bills. My gut feel is that at least some of it is guidelines, not that that is necessarily bad as long as they are not treated as law.

          2. It started out as guidelines, but they took steps (I can’t remember on exactly what date) to enshrine most of it in law.

    3. Professor Risdon asks if we have “lost all sense of proportion and common sense?” Does he even need to ask?

    4. Well look at the comments whenTrump received those experimental drugs, the nay sayers were fit to be tied (again).

      Maybe it was a bit rash to give him unapproved drugs but was he really expected to go to the back of the queue at a neighbourhood hospital and depend on the largess of medicare

      1. was he really expected to go to the back of the queue at a neighbourhood hospital and depend on the largess of medicare

        No. But it would have been a bloody good thing if he had. Then he might realise what it is like to be an American who isn’t stinking rich.

        Granted that’s not an option, but I do wish it was.

  23. Covid deaths according to the last week’s figures panicking Hancock. The deaths on Monday were 168 and yesterday 213. The virus is behaving as Dr Mike Yeadon predicted.

    1. The reported deaths on Mondays and Tuesdays do tend to be lower – something to do with the weekend effect and the lack of a proper automated data gathering/ reporting system. I always look to the rolling averages and comparisons to previous years to attempt to come to an informed opinion.
      Travelling Tabby does an excellent job of collating the data: https://www.travellingtabby.com/uk-coronavirus-tracker/
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ff1a3dbaf1fa24529373eaa1d2f5b661b7f150b9165af8a24b83afd67bb0cca1.png
      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1a62dfa691268d4a8f15a6f72dcb0d7710d9b797135a43e621c9dbebcb498290.png

      1. Afternoon “our man in Munich” – If you put in the initial death graph you get a better picture. What we are getting now is the usual seasonal spike of respiratory disease at a lower number than at the peak of the epidemic. Tabby is not showing the complete picture.

        1. I agree that what we are seem to have at the moment is the usual seasonal increase as opposed to a second wave of an epidemic. I believe the ONS stats on weekly deaths are due out today and Mr Tabby is quicker at updating his charts than I am at trawling though the ONS site – I struggle to find the comparison for all cause deaths.

          Latest update is here though: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending6november2020

          I’m always interested to see new and different stats and to hear differing opinions on them.

          KBO and Kind Regards
          Nick

      2. have they stopped using that excel spreadsheet to record covid deaths yet?

        We had a big wind storm this past weekend, the covid testing centre tent blew off somewhere to the east. Oh look we are doing well, no tests for the past few days.

    2. Your first sentence. Of course he’s”panicking”: it supports his intention of locking us all down for ever as far as I can see. Until we all have the vaccine. Plain as the nose on your face.

  24. I see that the increasingly left-leaning, woke DT is producing more virtue-signalling rubbish and not allowing reader comments: Celia Walden’s making ‘anti-vaxx’ commentary illegal (most people are not anti-vaxx who are includede by the MSM in that group) is one.

    They are concerned citizens who are very worried about a brand new type of vaccine that has been designed and tested in under a year being forced on the public (ministers considering making in manditory [including stopping benefits] or pushing that onto businesses [including banks withdrawing accounts] to be their policemen by ‘recommending’ they refuse people their business if they aren’t vaccinated).

    Another article – the knee-bending ‘Chief Sports writer’ (taking over the woke matle of Paul Heyward) Oliver Brown to state that there’s no valid reasons for denying Lewis Hamilton a knighthood – conventiently forgetting that those other F1 drivers who got one did so much later in life AND, more importantly, were IMHO, proper ambassadors for the sport, kept politics out of it and were heavily involved in making the sport safer.

      1. Now we get another article (no comments allowed again) from umpires (actually just two, but only one listed in the headline) saying that the ECB are ‘racists’ in presumably stopping him from rising to the top.

      2. Now we get another article (no comments allowed again) from umpires (actually just two, but only one listed in the headline) saying that the ECB are ‘racists’ in presumably stopping him from rising to the top.

      3. I’m hoping that the last 20-odd years was all a dream, rather like the infamous Bobby comes back from the dead ‘shower scene’ from the old TV show ‘Dallas’.

    2. Celia Walden can “do one”. Do these people advocating legislation against vax deniers not realise they are rushing full pelt towards complete control of us all? Not only that but complete censorship? It’s bad enough as it is. But the voices in support of both are growing louder and bolder. I fear we have passed the point of no return in this battle.
      Edit: “I fear we Have passed…” not we’d

        1. Seems quite a few on here feel the same way, I certainly do. I fear TPTB will be ramping up the publicity as they did for the virus and then it will be “suggested” that the public join in the condemnation of those against it. As in “keep safe, keep others safe”.

          1. The new method of compulsion – holier-than-thou on steroids, makes people not only comply, willingly, but go much further than that. Next, it’ll be yellow stars for the non-compliant, and we know how that ended.

          2. The new method of compulsion – holier-than-thou on steroids, makes people not only comply, willingly, but go much further than that. Next, it’ll be yellow stars for the non-compliant, and we know how that ended.

          3. That’s what they said about masks. Didn’t make much difference, did they? the virus peaked and declined long before they made mask-wearing mandatory.

            I have a nasty suspicion they will ban people from travelling if they don’t have the vaccine, which is already the case for certain countries if you don’t have the Yellow fever one. As I’ve already booked my next trip to Kenya, that could be a bummer.

          4. Your 2nd para. I’m with you, I think I posted exactly the same some while ago. I have said for a long time that, with all these restrictions, I feel as if a net is tightening inexorably around my life and I can lambast my MP, as I do frequently, but can do sod all else. And I see no sign of any kickback from the general public. Of course it could be that the MSM are keeping it quiet, we know they only tell one side of the story. But still the vast majority of those we see in shops are dutifully wearing their masks. I don’t see much sign of hope just now.

            And Boris has gone into hiding. Mind you that’s not altogether a bad thing, just that someone else with stronger views will step in, like Halfcock. Seems to be all for locking us down ad infinitum.

          5. Ndovu, currently [accepting things change fast] entry into Kenya you merely need to show a note you tested negative within 24 hrs prior to flight. Am told it’s similar tests sports people have in the bio secure bubble. You might want to make alternative arrangements, but currently, not the vaccine.

            create a letter [printed format] that you’re visiting on work related duties. I use my mate in Utopian UN Sy Juba any time I need a note, standard waffle. Here’s the basic format

            “Dear Sir or Madam

            I am writing this letter in support of XXXXXXXXXX who will serve as a Technical Development Advisor for [Insert whoever you want] visiting our Head office in [for ex: Gigiri].

            Mr XXXXX will travel to Kenya under the auspices of XXXXX Security who will take full responsibility ofr his housing and any other incidental expenses during his visit.

            Yours”

            Use any UN or other entity logo and worth attaching photocopy when submitting your PPT in London for Kenya visa, it speeds process up. On arrival, Kenya Immgn currently only checking med doc you were tested as negative, then it’s the usual PPT Control gig who will chk negative test paper and Yellow Fever stamp.

            After collecting your kit from baggage, exiting terminal avoid eye contact with Kenya Police, they’re in major hustle mode and always hanging around by the exit door asking usual questions “where are you going, who are you meeting?” Hence the cover story letter.. If not been here recently, the rebuilt JKIA’s different from before [another inside job re fire to “lose” duty free goods.

            Exiting terminal, immediate right, join the throng, striaight opposite is car park area. If mtg someone, arrange to meet away from terminal. Basic rules of the road what’s going on here and how to circumvent them.

          6. Thanks for all that – I won’t be travelling on business, I’m just a safari junkie. My next trip is planned for early March. I know I will have to have a negative cv test certificate, hopefully the airports will get their act togeter by then – Heathrow is alrady using them on some routes. Otherwise it’s a trip to a travel clinic for an expensive one. Hopefully the quick ones will be available then.

            I do the visa online – it’s a bit of a rigmarole and they’re not very quick to process them but so far I’ve not had any problems and they arrive in time.

            I’ve booked a “cheap” flight with BA this time , which is hand baggage only (up to 23 kilos!!) so at least no hanging around waiting for it to be lost.

            I have a Yellow fever cert (and they are now accepted to be life-long by WHO) but it’s not necessary if flying direct from UK, only if moving from another African country.

          7. Fair one, thanks for update. Like everyone else around the world, all this charade’s out the way by next March. Fair one re test cert. Visa won’t be issue [3 months US$50 or whatever it is yr end]. I try and use the £60 visa which gives unlimited access for 1 year, which living here, makes more sense.

            Either way, Kenya Govt’s desperate to attract overseas visitors mainly for the hard currency. But worth bearing in mind. Most safari lodges are just about staying afloat. Nakuru’s been closed for a while, but that was due to escessive rains this year. Bring your yellow fever stamp with you, merely as back cover, without, Kenya Immigration will use it as an angle for collateral from your pocket.

            I’m trying to get to coast before xmas break here, but with their arcane travel rules out of Nbo Metropolitan area, I may have to go off grid and use my networks to bypass that.

            Otherwise, there’s no issues these sides, security’s good, Ksh is weak against US$ [109 Ksh – US$ and £ 136 Ksh – GBP]. No shortage of food, local bars beer around Ksh180 [£1.25 ish], wines about £1 per glass. the rest no issues. If anything you think of drop me a line

          8. Thanks – it’ll be my 5th visit to Kenya – can’t wait to be back! It’s the thought of the bush and the animals and the people that gets me though this tedious lockdown and house arrest. Not to mention dreary November weather.

        2. Not wanting to have a vaccine – or even any vaccine – doesn’t make you an anti-vaxxer.

          Shouting provable lies about vaccines in public places is what makes an anti-vaxxer.

          Not having one is personal choice – it might even be medical recommendation due to you personal history. It is to be hoped that personal choice will be maintained although it may come with restrictions. If a third country won’t admit you unless you are vaccinated that is their right. Your own country refusing access to travel is more questionable, but might well have legal justification. You would then have to make your choice in the light of those rules.

  25. A question for all those on Nottle who think people like me are being unduly cautious over the new vaccine.

    Given Big Pharma’s tendency to cover up or deny problems or adverse side-effects with their products, how long do you think it will take them to admit to any problems that might show up with their new vaccine?

    Immediately
    After several months confirming whether or not the problem is down to the vaccine
    Years, as they tweak it in the background without admitting anything.
    Never, because they’ve been indemnified against public liability.

  27. Airline boss wanted for £2.3million fraud in Russia is the victim of political witch hunt led by Vladimir Putin, court hears. 17m November 2020.

    An airline boss wanted in Russia for a £2.3 million fraud is the victim of a political witch hunt conjured up by Vladimir Putin, a court heard today.

    Alevtina Kalashnikova is said to have swindled 212,325,636 rubles by selling bogus tickets while working at VIM Airlines in between 2014 and 2017.

    The deputy general director allegedly worked alongside CEO Alexander Kochnev to use the now defunct air carrier as a pyramid scheme moving foreign currency into their own accounts.

    Every villain in Russia who gets caught with his hand in the till invariably complains that Vladimir Putin has a personal grudge against him. I wish it were true but unfortunately the numbers and time available tells us that it isn’t.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8957437/Airline-boss-wanted-2-3m-fraud-Russia-victim-political-witch-hunt-led-Putin.html

  28. Devolution ‘a disaster north of the border’, says Boris Johnson. 17 November 2020.

    Politicians across the spectrum have reacted angrily after Boris Johnson dismissed devolution as “a disaster north of the border”
    .
    During a Zoom call with around 60 northern Conservative MPs on Monday evening, the prime minister described devolution as “Tony Blair’s biggest mistake”

    This is quite simply a red herring to distract attention away from the Virus and Boris’s personal life.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/nov/16/scotland-devolution-a-disaster-north-of-the-border-says-boris-johnson

    1. Well, I would dispute this on two grounds; firstly it wasn’t a mistake, Blair intended to wreck the United Kingdom. And secondly it was not his biggest wrecking action, only one of many!

      1. Many of us saw it coming a long time ago!

        “I won’t believe in anything unless you want me to.
        I’ll wreck the Act of Union – what’s history to you?
        I’ll be so smooth and reasonable on me you’ll bet your shirts
        And with New Labour – endlessly – you’ll get your just deserts.”

        (RCT: 1998 From the song The Populist Prime Minister from a Minor Public School)

  29. SIR — The plan to amalgamate the 43 English police forces into a number of regions (report, November 16) is not new. It was considered by the Royal Commission on the Police in 1963, when the proposal was to reduce the number of forces from 140 to 10 regions. Parliament found this plan too radical and settled on the 43 we have today.

    In 1997 I led a team of officers in designing new 999 call-handling software, which should have been rolled out to all 43 forces. This would have allowed them to see, respond to and combat cross-border crime. The system was successfully introduced to a number of police services, but chief constables were reluctant to commit to a system that could have led to their forces’ eventual amalgamation.

    Now is the time to create a national service along the lines of regions. Police chiefs and the Home Secretary need finally to bring English police forces into the 21st century.

    Ian James
    Chief Inspector (retd)
    Woodborough, Wiltshire

    I strongly disagree. The formation of regional police forces would simply be one more step towards a national force. It is already abundantly clear; as the government exerts more and more political control over the police, taking them further and further away from their prime remit of being public servants; that the most useful tool in a police officer’s armoury — local knowledge — will be lost forever.

    The succour being handed to the criminal element of society will only escalate.

    1. I think it is already way past the point of no return. We have a local police station, the desk is occupied twondayscacweeknfrom 10 to 12 (I wont say manned) by a Hitlerite civilian woman, the car park is occupied by several patrol cars while inside those who occupy those cars drink coffee while waiting for a call from a control centre 30 miles away. A while ago I reported an assault and 2 days later a policeman from a town 20 miles away came to investigate. The concept of local knowledge died years ago.

    2. Morning Grizz. The police are already a politicised agency of repression. To make them national would simply transform them into a UK Gestapo!

      1. This summary of the powers of the Gestapo and how they came about has some rather sinister contemporary parallels.
        “The Gestapo had the authority to investigate cases of treason, espionage, sabotage and criminal attacks on the Nazi Party and Germany. The basic Gestapo law passed by the government in 1936 gave the Gestapo carte blanche to operate without judicial review—in effect, putting it above the law. The Gestapo was specifically exempted from responsibility to administrative courts, where citizens normally could sue the state to conform to laws. As early as 1935, a Prussian administrative court had ruled that the Gestapo’s actions were not subject to judicial review. The SS officer Werner Best, one-time head of legal affairs in the Gestapo, summed up this policy by saying, “As long as the police carries out the will of the leadership, it is acting legally”.”
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gestapo

      2. Morning, Minty; hope you’re feeling better.

        I think the political élite are hell-bent on that in any case. I would never have been able to serve under the régime of today. I would have retired and become a dustbinman.

          2. I say, I say, I say; my dustbin’s absolutely full of lilies.

            How do you know they’re lilies?

            ‘Cos Lily’s wearing them!

    3. A couple of minutes looking at the workings of the disastrous Police Scotland should be enough to scupper the idea. I did say “should” but we are talking about politicians here!
      Good morning all!

    4. Some years ago, I reported to the local police station (I naively thought, it’s barely a mile away) 2 small children wandering around our road, knocking on doors late at night.
      When I gave our address, the call handler asked if that was X Road in Clacton. I then realised I might as well install a moat and drawbridge and take Allan Towers’ security into my own hands.

      1. Tales like that, Nursey, are far too common for comfort. The last time I was in Chesterfield, five years ago, I popped into my old nick to ask a question (not law-related). I was made to feel most unwelcome by the clueless Eva Braun civvie behind the desk.

        1. I dread to think what my father and godfather would think of the C21 Met.
          They were both in training at Peel House (?), and were firm friends for the rest of their lives – which, thanks to WWII, went down very different routes.

  30. Did anyone else watch The Night Notre Dame Burned (BBC4) yesterday evening? Quite outstanding. (Any programme that can keep me awake until 10.30pm must be good.)

    1. Recorded to watch tonight.

      Last evening we saw “I was Monty’s Double” – a first for the MR who thought it was complete fiction!

    2. We missed that as we watched the Robert Rinder programme on the Holocaust – grim stuff but a very interesting programme.

      1. It was indeed an excellent programme but what struck me was the extent, not just of passive collaboration, but of enthusiasm for the Nazi ideology in the Vichy areas. On the other hand, the courage of other French citizens in sheltering Jews and helping them to escape is undeniable. The programme spent time in the city of Annecy where ordinary people, at considerable risk, rescued the crew of a crashed Halifax bomber (commemorated in large annual civic ceremonies attended by dignities and ex-Service associations) and where a large force of the Maquis were eventually almost wiped out by a massive German attack.

        1. One of my Norman friends (now alas, no longer with us) sheltered a Halifax crew and helped them get away. I translated a grateful letter from his relations.

    3. No but I did watch Mountbatten the other night which surprisingly confirmed all my opinions about him!

    4. Very good documentary. Many questions unanswered. Person on fire watch for first time, started work 7am, not relieved so continued on duty. Fire alarm sounded 6.18pm. Absent from work station for refreshment when alarm sounded. Didn’t know which area was affected (ambiguous location on alarm system) guards/staff went to wrong location. Fire service not automatically notified and arrived 43 mins after start. Fire service trucks with long ladders stationed long way (13 miles) from cathedral. No cameras in area most susceptible to fire damage… and so on. What religion/nationality was the ‘rookie’ watchman? Why was he alone? Why was he not relieved? . All workmen had left before start of fire. No soldering or work with flammable materials. Something not quite right that day.

  31. 326488+ up ticks,
    Tuesday 17 November: It makes no sense for the Prime Minister to be forbidden a Covid test.

    Makes every sense really if he is judged to have it then he cannot be medically fit to run a Country, if he tested clear
    in all honesty why is he bunkering up ?

    In reality,as if one bloke of such major importance, in the great scheme of things is going to make a great deal of difference plague wise.

    Maybe the bunker doubles as a fall-out shelter in regards to
    unwanted deals already done and the revealing of,eminent.

  33. It is a mad old world!

    The UK Government has confirmed the requirement of the increased national lockdown in England is designed to suppress the spread of Covid-19, save lives and protect the NHS.
    Sadly, all indoor and outdoor skateparks in England have been ordered to close from Thursday 5th November 2020 by the Government, following Parliamentary approval of a four-week national lockdown.
    Skateboard England and Skateboard GB have sought guidance from and argued the case for exemptions from the Government for skateboarding, due to the ability to take part, while social distancing. Unfortunately, the increased national lockdown measures will force the closure of all indoor and outdoor skateparks.
    We know this is hugely disappointing news but we must all pull together as a community and continue to follow the Government guidance to keep ourselves and each other safe.
    
Summary of the COVID lockdown measures which effect skateboarding:
    – Outdoor skateboarding should only take place on your own, with household members or with one other person.
    – Sport and leisure venues, including indoor AND outdoor skateparks, are required to close under the general restriction (except when operating as part of an exception).
    – 1-2-1 skateboard coaching of adults (Over-18) is permitted in a public outdoor space following social distancing measures.
    – 1-2-1 skateboard coaching of children (Under-18) is NOT permitted due to safeguarding and the lockdown restrictions.
    – Indoor children’s (U18) skateboarding can only take place when ‘supervised’ and only if the primary purpose of the activity is to provide registered childcare, or other childcare activities where this is reasonably necessary to enable parents to work/search for work or undertake training/education.
    – In all circumstances, social distancing (2 metres) and hygiene protocols (washing hands & disinfecting surfaces) must be adhered to at all times whilst skateboarding.
    The physical and mental health and wellbeing of the whole skateboarding community and their loved ones remains the priority throughout this difficult and challenging period so it is vital everyone adheres to the UK Government’s new national Covid-19 restrictions.
    Skateboard England and Skateboard GB will remain in dialogue with the UK Government and will push for clarity in advance of these new measures ending on Wednesday 2nd December 2020 and how this guidance changes beyond this period.

    We have a brand new skate board set up in the village , the children love it , only been open a few months , no football for the youngsters either . No nothing , yet the poncey high arsed over paid footballers are allowed to fly here there and everythere to play in international matches! Golf courses are closed so are the driving ranges, but the shooting season is here and as far as I know shoots are still continuing

    1. It’s all totally illogical and will do absolutely nothing to “control the virus”, while making us all poorer, less fit and healthy, depressed, fed up and less likely than ever to vote for these liars cheats and charlatans ever again. And no – I don’t want a novel and only partially tested vaccine.

          1. There have also been a few warnings about delivering Christmas cards by hand to neighbours , but no mention of posting cards, especially overseas cards.

            I wish there was some clarification. Time to post overseas cards now.

          3. Get them posted then – and don’t worry about the local ones. Deliver them yourself or put them in the post. Nobody is going to catch anything from them.

          4. J, people around here are scared stiff, there is also an older generation , no one around , haven’t even caught a glimpse of neighbours who are sheltering , one neighbour spends her time disinfecting her door knobs ..

            Worry and hesitation has killed all reciprocation .

          5. That’s what Project Fear mk2 has done to them!

            Too much sanitising is bad for their immune systems – so it could be self-defeating.

          6. That’s such a shame.

            Those who are very fearful tend now to be in a routine of leaving their post for a couple of days before opening it – so hand-delivered cards should still be OK.

          7. Perhaps you could explain why we can catch Covid from handling cash, but can’t catch it from newspapers, or the post?

            Is it the quality of the paper?

      2. It’s disgusting. Insane. And I have to wonder at the detail of all these rules and regulations. And I would love to nominate some tame candidates for the shooting thereof.

      3. It’s disgusting. Insane. And I have to wonder at the detail of all these rules and regulations. And I would love to nominate some tame candidates for the shooting thereof.

      1. The other figures she’s posting look very suspect too.

        If the population of the UK is 70 million that would give 3,500 people catching it. I’m reasonably sure that more than that have caught covid.

        1. She must mean catching it and dying, which would be closer to 500/1,000,000 so she’s doubly wrong.

          1. She moves on from that claim to even more unlikely statistics.
            I wouldn’t give the thing much credence.

  35. Smartmatic Voting Machine Alert !

    ”Sidney Powell (member of President Trump’s legal team) Outlines Affidavit Showing Purpose of SmartMatic Voting System to Control Elections”…………….

    https://twitter.com/TheLastRefuge2/status/1328593577455316992

    I bought a new SmartMatic dishwasher yesterday… It’s simply unbelievable………………..

    So far, it says it’s washed…….. 7,782,507 forks, 6,857,204 spoons, 5,782,547 glasses and 5,678,755 pots and pans…

    Then there’s what it says it did for china……………..

  37. Mid afternoon in UK, early evening here, and the septics [some of them] have taken breakfast. The allegations run the gamut from ballot harvesting to rigged software, from duplicate voting to voting by deceased people, from outdated voter rolls to failing to match signatures, and from voter intimidation to altering the vote count. Whistleblowers in several states have signed affidavits of criminal activity during the voting process. Another non MSM “view” https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/16770/stolen-election

    1. So strange how the media has gone so quiet on this, you can almost hear a pin drop. Anyone would think it was complicit, all of it.

      1. indeed, but collectively, we’ve noticed! Fortunately they are limited in controlling their narrative only if people go to them. Not doing so neuters them, as long as this site and a few others maintains its independent stance and allows diverse groups to share / exchange information that may or may not be relevant [depending on one’s view] that certainly provides a balance from which we can collectively form our own view.

        My guess is the majority of people on here don’t need to be controlled in what’s aired is “gospel”. Everyone’s more than capable of thinking for themselves. Either we’re all complicit viz independent thought or it’s the “new normal”?

    2. So strange how the media has gone so quiet on this, you can almost hear a pin drop. Anyone would think it was complicit, all of it.

      1. It is excellent for use when making Christmas cakes. It gives the fruit a delicious flavour. Forget the brandy and/or rum.

          1. Not that keen on it really. And definitely not after a big Christmas lunch. I normally make a 12 x 12 inch one in August. Feed it until it’s too drunk to drive then cut into 4 and give it away to neighbours.

          3. Not that keen on it really. And definitely not after a big Christmas lunch. I normally make a 12 x 12 inch one in August. Feed it until it’s too drunk to drive then cut into 4 and give it away to neighbours.

          1. I never used to like Christmas pudding, but then my father started making them. His method is to make the pudding a few days before Christmas so that it is fresh, and he uses almost no sugar. It tastes wonderful!

        1. Cream sherry from the fridge, over a cube of ice, is wonderful when the weather is hot. The wine has flavour enough to withstand heavy chilling.
          Manzanilla is excellent.

      4. As an aperitif: González Byass Tio Pepe Fino.

        As an after-supper: Harvey’s Bristol Milk (much more flavourful than their Bristol Cream).

        1. I like Harvey’s too as an aperitif when i go out for lunch. 🙂
          I’ve not heard it called that before.

          1. I’ve just been looking for it but I can no longer find it. Harvey’s Bristol Milk was the original style of cream sherry that was around for centuries until about 20 years ago. Some time in its history they (Harvey’s) made a newer style and, upon sampling it, some aristocratic woman declared, “If that is the Milk, this must be the Cream!” Harvey’s Bristol Cream was then born. It seems that Bristol Milk was discarded when the company was taken over. Shame, because I thought it had a better flavour.

        2. Unavailable in Norway, I believe. It may be bestillingsvare from the wine monopoly. Another bummer. :-((

          1. Same here in Sverige. The state monopoly gets me down: it infringes my human rights! Swedes, who are sans gonads, just shrug. Try that in France or Italy and see how far you get!

    3. Having seen a bunch of kids – well, people might call them teenagers but as they were behaving like toddlers who knows? – not wearing masks in Tesco and just ignoring it, along with many of the staff one rather thinks everyone is sick and tired of the farce.

    1. There was a quiz in the Disqus ads earlier which claimed to be able to accurately gauge our level of education. It told me I have a Masters Degree, based on a score of 67.5%. I have two A levels.

      1. But how many years ago did you take them?

        Depending on the A levels, I suspect that the level of knowledge might be similar to a modern Masters, given how exams seem to have been dimiinished across the board.

        (I was going to write “degraded” for diminished but the grades appear to have moved up for less.)

          3. Two A Levels in 1974 is good. I got four in 1970 and would have only needed two E Grades following an interview at the University of Sheffield to enter the degree course. Manchester would have required three E Grades following interview and Edinburgh the same.

            If the University thought you to be a suitable student they reduced the grade requirements to put you under less pressure at the examinations. I achieved two A grades and two B grades thanks to no pressure. (Pure & Applied Maths, Physics, Chemistry and Art).

      2. But how many years ago did you take them?

        Depending on the A levels, I suspect that the level of knowledge might be similar to a modern Masters, given how exams seem to have been dimiinished across the board.

        (I was going to write “degraded” for diminished but the grades appear to have moved up for less.)

      3. Some of these quizzes are quite good fun, but I often wonder whether they are phishing exercises.

        Sue, I reckon your 2 A levels are probably Masters degree level these days .

      4. Some of these quizzes are quite good fun, but I often wonder whether they are phishing exercises.

        Sue, I reckon your 2 A levels are probably Masters degree level these days .

        1. There was a time long ago, if you wanted a job you would send a letter in your own handwriting to the employer. If the employer liked the letter you would be called in for an interview. You’d meet the boss and the people with whom you would be working. No Personnel/HR assessment – no Personnel or HR Dept.
          Now employment agencies who advertise a job and skim the top ten off a pile of 100 applications, read the top ten and send the preferred six to the employer.

          2. Not to me, they don’t.
            I require to see them all, unfiltered, as who knows what you might miss by some plonker from HR not having the imagination to see the potential in a candidate.
            Haven’t messed up yet.

          3. Some companies bring in outside agencies to do preliminary vetting – it never gets to as few as “the preferred six”. Others like to do all their own work.

            HR’s job is following up references (and qualifications) to make sure that the candidates are who/what they say they are.

        2. There was a time long ago, if you wanted a job you would send a letter in your own handwriting to the employer. If the employer liked the letter you would be called in for an interview. You’d meet the boss and the people with whom you would be working. No Personnel/HR assessment – no Personnel or HR Dept.
          Now employment agencies who advertise a job and skim the top ten off a pile of 100 applications, read the top ten and send the preferred six to the employer.

    1. It looks like nobody wants to certify the results as this leaves them wide open for swift visit to jail for fraud if it all comes to light.
      I think they were hoping Trump would concede first

      1. spot on Bob, and another reason why Halfcock / Johnson won’t commit to either ending lockdown or extending and Sir Kneel Starmer will back anything for a free ride either way. Trump’s the proverbial spanner in their works

  42. Good morning, my friends

    In today’s DT: People are being infected by anti-vaxx lies – and that should be made illegal
    An anti-vaxxer could infect 1.2 people and 1.2 more after that; it’s the wilful infection of our parents, grandparents and friends

    CELIA WALDEN

    What I say is true

    What you say is a lie.

    For example when Nigel Farage says: We shall be better off out of the EU” it is a disgusting lie. When Dominic Grieve said: “We shall be far worse off out of the EU.” it is the truth.

    I am constantly reminded off Macbeth’s final exchange with Macduff when I hear the words of our politicians and the MSM:

    “…. these juggling fiends no more believed,
    That palter with us in a double sense,
    That keep the word of promise to our ear,
    And break it to our hope.”

    1. I’m hazarding a guess that the reportress wasn’t feeling too good at the time; she was probably personstruating.

    2. Male midwives are not called midhusbands and in France they are called by the same name as their female counterparts: sages femmes..

      As Hamlet says to his mother: “I know not seems” but if I repair my own clothes should I expect people to refer to me as a seamster rather than a seamstress?

      1. I cannot comment on the French counterparts but it would be entirely illogical to call a male midwife a “midhusband” since the “wife” part of the term does not refer to the practitioner.

        Midwife comes from the middle English preposition “mid” meaning with and means a person, of whatever sex, who is “with the woman”. A male midwife is with the woman in exactly the same way as a female midwife so the term is completely correct.

    4. I saw part of a TV prog about UK fishing and quite a few of the crew were African. Which was at the very least surprising.

      1. When we lived in Plymouth, a lot of people on benefits used to supplement them with casual work on fishing boats, as I recall.

        1. I can hardly blame them. If they were honest and declared part time or casual work they can have their benefits suspended for 6 weeks. How are they supposed to eat?

          1. Almost everyone was fiddling benefits one way or the other as far as I could see. At the time, the government said that benefit fraud wasn’t an issue, and they gave out some figure like 7.5% of all claims involved fraud!
            But as you say, most of the fiddles were relatively small scale. Most of them were too darn lazy and keen on their weed to do more than the odd bit of casual work!
            The big fraud was places like London where people came into the country with fake ID, and then bought a different fake passport for each London borough, claim in each borough, kerching!

        2. I can hardly blame them. If they were honest and declared part time or casual work they can have their benefits suspended for 6 weeks. How are they supposed to eat?

      2. When we lived in Plymouth, a lot of people on benefits used to supplement them with casual work on fishing boats, as I recall.

      3. It’s a hard life. The young need certainty if they are to pay a mortgage/raise a family. Fishing can’t guarantee that so they tend to move to more urban areas. Fishermens cottages were near the water. They are now mostly holiday homes. There is no slacking on a fishing boat so it shows that at least some Africans know how to work hard.

    5. Just ‘fishers’ would be better.
      The changing of gendered nouns may be ridiculous to some, but if I earned my living off the sea I would not want to be called a fisherman because I wouldn’t be. Equally ridiculous, though, when at the start of my AR career, I and my fellow female soldiers were addressed as Woman Rifleman.
      I was glad to get my first promotion.

    1. We went for our flu jabs a week ago and apart from the receptionist and the nurse we seemed to be the only people in the surgery !
      And no it wasn’t past midnight 😏

        3. Hundreds and we had two deaths from cancer one a family friend and one husband of a niece. One just over 50 and the other just past 40.
          I’m sure many other operations for orthopaedic surgery have been put on hold as well.
          I wonder if the guy who was wrenched to the ground and had 8 coppers piled onto his back with his face in the tarmac was taken to A&E.

    2. I haven’t seen any hide nor hair of a doctor at my local surgey. It’s an event if you can see a patient in the waiting room through the window. They now make any patients wait outside and ring the bell to be ‘served’.

      1. the big signature our doctors surgery reads “Phone before entering”.

        Now answer the bloody phone, I can see you sitting inside at your desk all nice and smug and ignoring me!

        1. They can get away with this behaviour because there is no link between what people pay and the funding of the clinics and hospitals. Nobody can prove that they have paid for the NHS, so it can do what it wants.

          1. Our dentists are all private practice, no patients means no cash.

            When you phone them, instant response and someone will be at the door to grab you before you have a chance to run away.

          2. I had to smile at this description. My daughter was working in a hospital, and this was more or less her job!

          3. Time to defund the NHS? If only. Certainly time GPs were not paid per patient on their books. And it’s certain they have names on their books when those people are dead. As evidenced when Mammography Screening was being tested. The names were garnered by going through the GP’s lists in the 7-year trials and I think pretty well all of them had dead people’s names still on them.

    4. I’ve called the surgery seven times this morning and have received no joy. They shut down at lunch so I might try again tomorrow or just stop bothering. If I have a recurrence of Sunday I shall just have to call the emergency services again! It seems obvious to me that this obstacle course is to refuse you service without actually saying so and thus avoid legal penalties if you drop dead!

      1. You’re taking on the system Araminta, that means talking language they understand [if not follow]. Write to MP [and CC news media], state you voted for them to represent you and the only one available who’s accountable and who responds. Outline your ongoing challenges on following advice from yr Medical Dr [give name if remember it and loc] spice it up if necessary aka ringing all day every day for a week, no response, office is “manned”]; occasional visits in person, various untrained security guards [name company if you recall it] taking money [salary] under false pretences refusing to help, spending all time on their phones. Make point clear whilst seeking assistance to sort out your personal ailments, your wider / primary concern is for elderly neighbours nearby who fear going out, unable to reach MPs surgery and now worried due to lack of support you’ve got.

        The agenda is you put it in writing, they cannot ignore it and the longer they delay, you ratchet up the press [and let them ask the question]. Embellish where necessary, once you start “committing to print”, they can’t wriggle as you established the audit trail.

        I know it’s a pain in the proverbial, but you’re limitng their room to manoeuvre from their responsibility. Guarantee when system kicks in, the system will want your appointment sorted quicker than Usain Bolt out the blocks and they’ll want you out their door fast. Keep banging the door down!

        1. 326488+ up ticks,
          AS,
          May your malady soon clear up, me, I would tend to send any missive recorded delivery, & to start any incoming telephone
          conversation with “this call is recorded for my personal records”

        2. This has been Alf’s modus operandi for many years. It usually works. It certainly speeds things up.

          1. Didn’t know that before but thanks for that. I work on the basis face to face you’ve got 20 seconds then it’s name, tel, boss’ details, or if via online any limp wristed response “Foxtrot Echo” and walk it up the tree.

            agree it ‘s an unwanted pain, but you get used it, so short circuit system. No better feeling for Araminta [aside getting her overdue treatment] than being able to walk past and notice those who made life hard, no longer there. But thanks again anyway, always good to get independent feedback, however it lands

          2. Unfortunately with the panic about this virus everybody seems to have an easy get out clause as to why they can’t do that, whatever it is. Alf looks up the ceo email and hey presto. Somebody usually contact him pretty damn quickly.
            Edit: added. Always complain to the one at the top. Things filter down but very rarely the other way round.

          3. Mind you, if Liverpool Victoria (award winner for customer service – yeah, right!) is anything to go by, the CEO does kick the underlings, who then ring you up, assure you everything has been sorted and then they send you the documents that should have been amended with exactly the same mistakes as before you complained.

          4. TBF we’ve always been pleased with LV including when a van went into the back of our car when we were at red traffic lights. I took pictures of the driver and the insurance details on the windscreen (he’d hired the van and was doing deliveries). We had to pay for the repairs but after about 6/7 months they reimbursed us they’d managed to track the other owner and claimed the money back.

            This year’s house and car premiums, always due in November, have increased by about 10% (not so good especially as we’ve been mostly at home) but Alf always trawls the other companies and LV turned out the best.

      2. Use ceoemail.com to identify the CEO of the CCG and write directly to him and copy in your MP. If you don’t get a response within 7 days ask you MO to follow it up on your behalf.
        Fingers crossed for you.

    6. Start ringing after just a week though – then you can hang up if the symptoms go away after another 5 days or so!

    4. I’d quite like to try that on my route to work – when we go back. There’s 2 motorway junctions, on and off, endless traffic lights, a weird road split and frankly psychotic drivers all around. If it can make that journey unaided, I’d get one, but I’d bet it can’t.

    5. For the pace is hot, and the points are near,
      And Sleep hath deadened the driver’s ear;
      And signals flash through the night in vain.
      Death is in charge of the clattering train!

  49. Yesterday (I think it was – I lose touch with time these days) someone posted a twot from a tearful Danish woman saying that all the pandemic restrictions have ended in Denmark.

    Can’t find a word of this story anywhere. Anyone know owt about it?

      1. Thanks. Helpful but only up to a point. The Danish woman was celebrating that the existing law had – that day (yesterday?) been scrapped after a week of “pots and pans” protests.

      2. Blimey!
        “People infected with dangerous diseases can be forcibly given medical examination, hospitalised, treated and placed in isolation.

        The Danish Health Authority would be able to define groups of people who must be vaccinated in order to contain and eliminate a dangerous disease.

        People who refuse the above can – in some situations – be coerced through physical detainment, with police allowed to assist.”

          2. No, I don’t read much Scandi literature; the last I read was “Bla to hop ut!” borrowed from the local library when I was a teenager. There may be an o missing from the top of the a, but I can’t be bothered to search for characters I don’t use often, so apologies if so.

          3. Wouldn’t call it Scandi literature, I can’t get on with that, this was a blood and guts series of books about a WWII penal Panzer crew.

      2. Denmark currently has 875 recorded coronavirus cases and has registered 2 deaths.

        Edit: oh, so probably a few more then since March.

    1. What a very sad sick state of affairs we have descended into in the UK.
      A life time of damage has been inflicted in 9 months.

      1. 326488+ up ticks,
        Morning RE,
        “A life time of damage has been inflicted in nine months”
        Having been given succour for, especially the last three decades via the ballot booth we are reaping the vile harvest.

        Shades of the splendid & the vile.

      2. No.

        The PTB are getting the Police recognised as determined harassers of the public, which is what they will certainly be at “The Great Reset”…

        or as trendy leftie Trudeau calls it “Build Back Better”

    3. Funny how they can turn out in their dozens when a single white person is doing something they don’t like – while they do SFA when XR, BLM, Antifa etc riot ad wreak havoc.

        1. Does NO ONE complain to the Chief Cunstable (sic) or the Crime Commissioner or their MP – about this appalling high-handedness?

          3. What and be flagged as a racist agitator?

            Best to keep out of the police spotlight is probably seen as the best policy by most.

          4. There is so much to write to my MP about – and I have, also Alf separately, but although he replies sooner or later I know nothing is going to change. He has said he will think very carefully before voting on another lockdown. He voted for this latest one.

      2. They are overstretched and under a great deal of pressure to push over one little old lady every day. As we all know those sweet old dears can be a real handful which is why plod only ever travel in groups of 12.

  51. I was sitting in the car waiting for my wife to come out the shop.

    I got to thinking, “It’s wrong that you can’t smoke with children in the car.”

    “The poor little sods are freezing out there.”

  52. I’ve looked up Pfizer vaccine and the Modern vaccine hoping to find the methods used develop them. I cannot find anything. I and quite a few other people would like to know if stem cells were used. Typically these are taken from aborted babies. No Catholic would knowingly accept such a vaccine.

      1. A few years ago, we had a TV ad on that theme.
        Two pretty girls on the nudist beach watch this hunk slowly disrobe. He runs down to the water, a huge black stripe covering his dangly bits. After a quick swim, admired by the girls. After a swim, he walks back up the beach, with the huge black stripe now replaced by a tiny black square – to the giggles of the girls.
        The tag line was “Watch out, the water may be colder than you think!”

  54. There once was a man from Saudi,
    Who bought his wife an Audi.
    She said wow that’s pretty cool,
    Now I can drive your other wives to school.

      1. I bloody well hope they aren’t. Another report claims they’re complaining about the weather being cold at 51 degrees North latitude in November. Their countries brightest and best? The MSM are having a giraffe.

        1. I remember seeing a prog that showed a young Somali? woman who had just been given a flat – in Sweden. Her gratitude . . .”Why does it have to be so cold”.

          1. My only experience of Sweden is a few weeks in Stockholm during December 1986. I arrived to a welcoming foot or so of snow and temperatures well into the minus zone. It was effing freezing the whole time I was there. I was, however, prepared for cold weather although I was told the snow and low temperatures were unusually early that Winter.

    2. And the police outside do nothing about damage to property?
      So much for “All we want is asylum and safety” – “and to be free to go wherever we want, do whatever we want, rob whoever we want, murder whoever we want, turn your country into the 3rd world sh*thole we came from, etc etc – while the taxpayer pays for it all !!!”

  58. Just back from a quick trip to town.

    (a) To surgery – DO NOT ENTER UNLESS YOU HAVE AN APPOINTMENT OR ARE COLLECTING MEDICATION.
    (b) Morrisons – “Good morning, sir. Everything normal today.” As indeed it was except that everyone was masked up.

    1. Regarding the supermarket. The main doors here are now separated into an Entrance side and an Exit side. . . . yet people can go past each other up and down the aisles once inside????

      1. Life is very confusing without those arrows to tell us which way to walk, common sense is so last year.

        1. My local hardware store has a one-way system and arrows on the floor. I duly followed the trail, only to find that they didn’t have what I wanted (for the second visit in a row). They won’t be third time lucky.

      2. Ditto – but was ever thus before the Plague struck. I began by taking a posy – but gave up!!

      3. Our Morrisons is pretty much normal, apart from masks, perspex screens and sanitiser stuff everywhere. But no queuing or one-way systems.

    2. At my (empty) local surgery, you have to ring the bell outside and wait (whatever the weather) for a member of staff to take your temperature, make sure you’re wearing a mask (no exceptions – so that government thingy saying people with breathing problems and other illnesses that make wearing a mask physically difficult [it sets my asthma off] is a LIE) and excort you inside to the waiting are with just TWO SEATS.

      Where’s all the doctors (I saw a nurse)? They ain’t in the COVID wards, and according to the nurse, no-one is doing house calls unless the person is physically disabled. My area (borough) has had just TWO COVID-related deaths (maybe ‘with’ and not ‘of COVID) since early July. TWO. Out of about 100k people.

      Why are we locked down again? Oh, because big pharms, Bill Gates, the Social Media giants, the Civil Service ‘experts’, left wing politicians and the MSM said we must, ‘or else’.

      What has this nation come to?

    3. But remember: ‘Our’NHS its spending squllions on telling you to visit your GP if you keep farting.
      (And before anyone jumps up and down – I’ve just lost a friend to ovarian cancer.)

      1. Sorry to hear that Anne. The adverts to make appointments with your GP and go to your hospital are completely sickening. How they have the nerve to imply that it’s the public “too afraid” to do one or the other is so infuriating. Makes me rage.

        1. Getting into my surgery, even with a rare-as-hen’s-teeth appointment is like trying to rob Fort Knox.

  59. 326488+ up ticks,
    May one say, judging by the majority of the contents of the HOL hamilton would fit in well with many of the others who have received a sh!tehood.

    1. Never mind him being rewarded, what benefit would the UK receive by Hamilton becoming a knob?

      Give him one of those now meaningless MBE awards that every second rate person in the entertainment industry has showered on them

      1. He’s already got an MBE. And, of course, a knighthood would not give him entry to the House of Peers.

      1. “La Perla’s signature double-frastaglio embroidery creates the illusion of flowers growing up the body.”
        I remember a couple of gals who looked like they needed weeding.

  61. It shows how far the Daily Telegraph has swung to the Left (and possibly soon pro-May-style Brexit ‘deal’ [capitulation]) is that now Nick Robinson of the BBC is now a columnist, adding to the long line of left wingers like Cathy Newman, Joan Smith and a good few others (especially from the Women’s section) and Blairites/Cameroons working in prominent positions for the paper.

  62. Whatever one thinks of Boris Johnson most of us thought he had a good and original turn of phrase and that his classical education had given him some level of erudition and wit.

    That the best he could do was to use the old cliché ‘fit as a butcher’s dog‘ to describe his current state of health shows that his whole persona has disintegrated. It is not just his judgment that has gone – he cannot even express himself intelligently and humorously and everything else seems to have gone along with his verbal competence..

    1. Do you think he’s been brainwashed like the guy in Richard Condon’s novel? Could BJ be our own version of the Mancunian Candidate?

          5. I had to send the wife out once when we were so broke. She came back with £50.10. I asked her who gave her the 10p. She said “all of them”. 🙁

          8. “If all the girls in Essex were laid end to end, I’d not be a bit surprised.” (c) Bob Monkhouse (I think).

          9. If all Essex girls shoes were laid end to end they would stretch to Alpha Centurii. So Anne tells me… >>>>>>>>>runs away very fast.

          10. The late Duke of Norfolk – Bernard Marmaduke – Earl Marshal – had four daughters (the Fitzalan-Howard gels – one was a very distinguished horsewoman). When h was managing the MCC tour to Oz years ago – he used to refer to them as “the Norfolk Broads”.

          12. Indeed she did – she married Colin Cowdrey. She was, apparently very successful.

            I am absolutely certain that she was a show-jumper – but my googling has had no result. I can recall seeing her on telly.

          13. I saw her a few times at the races – Goodwood particularly as it was on the doorstep. A large lady!

          14. My paternal grandfather worked on the estate at Raveningham Hall. Obviously he had been sold into slavery by dastardly people.

    4. I think there is some sort of Freudian slip going on there for him to describe himself as a dog.

      1. In Bojo’s case, undoubtedly. Unlike the proverbial butcher’s dog, he hasn’t been running behind the delivery bicycle.

    7. 326488+ up ticks,
      Evening R,
      Our universities turn out some good treachery merchants, who are popular until their true calling is revealed take kim philiby
      for instance……

      2. UM. Most of that area is Scottish waters. Our “negotiations” were not helped when the leader of Tories in Scotland, Douglas Ross said that we could not use all the fish. He did not say anything about grants to reinstate fish factories, build fishing boats and train fishermen. His stupid words are an absolute gift to the EU

          1. No. But his work experience was on dairy farm. I’d guess that he has never played poker, or negotiated anything. Or he is plain stupid.

      2. Now I don’t usually explain my puns, but ‘brit’ are young fish of several species, a bit like whitebait.

    1. If I read up on it correctly, the people who died were those who hadn’t had Dengue fever before they were inoculated, which rather defeats the point of inoculation, doesn’t it?

  66. – I can’t make my mind up whether I agree with compulsory covid injections or not.
    – I must be vaccillating again.

    1. Ask your MP whether he/she will be vaccinating their children.

      That will give you a clearer view.

      2. The medical treatment of MP’s children should never be a public matter. The children are not the ones in parliament and they have a right to privacy as great as that of any other children.

        1. Not when MP’s are suggesting that vaccination should be compulsory for the rest of us they don’t.

          1. Yes they do. If it is made compulsory then the MPs children will be included in that compulsion. Until then they have every right to privacy. The sins of the fathers (or mothers) should not be inflicted upon children.

          2. I completely disagree when MP’s are deliberately setting forth/proposing such rules.

            They should be forced to tell us whether the rules will apply to them and theirs. No exceptions, just because you as an MP are SO important that you should be allowed to choose.

            I am sick and tired of watching MPs, VIPs and the like telling the voters to do one thing and then doing something completely different themselves.

            If you as an MP are going to demand that my children and grandchildren take an experimental vaccine I want to be absolutely certain that you and yours have had it too, and ideally I would like to watch as they are injected before my family are.

          5. Reminds me of my army medical. Twelve of us – lined up – having our jabs from teh MO – same syringe – re-filled from time to time. Just a wipe with cotton-wool soaked in surgical spirit…

            Those were the days. I suppose I could now sue the MOD for all the trauma that I have suffered in the subsequent 60 years…..

          6. Reminds me of my army medical. Twelve of us – lined up – having our jabs from teh MO – same syringe – re-filled from time to time. Just a wipe with cotton-wool soaked in surgical spirit…

            Those were the days. I suppose I could now sue the MOD for all the trauma that I have suffered in the subsequent 60 years…..

          7. As with Blair and whether his children had taken the MMR vaccine the elites will claim privacy. Different rules apply to them. We are sheep about to be led through the sheep dip for our own good and the good of others.

            What a fetid stinking mess this government are making of a flu Corona. I think the real problem we see before our eyes is a bunch of inexperienced cabinet ministers in awe of a few billionaires and having no experience being easily swayed in their judgements.

            Idiots such as Hancock get to go to Davis where they can rub shoulders with Soros, Gates, Thunderbug and the certifiably mad Nazi running the show. It is back to Germany 1933.

            Edit: The inevitable downvote was delivered in a record time of two seconds.

          9. If I ruled the world I would insist that people who forced such things on the populace had to have them first.

            And I would include me and mine.

            All the so-called elites should be given a year of what they preach.
            They tell the world what to do but still individually live at a level of luxury the cost of which per annum would give a good life to thousands.

            I hate them with a passion.

          10. No one is enforcing anything of the sort at the moment. If the vaccination becomes a requirement then of course legislators must abide by that law.

            Johnson is currently sticking by the law that he must isolate; because, as was clearly outlined here yesterday, he might communicate the disease even though he is vanishingly unlikely to contract it. He’s getting plenty of flack for it. So it seems that law-abiding or not there is no resting place.

            Your last sentence is merely vindictiveness and, frankly, revolting.

          11. Re your last sentence.

            Funny that, I find you to be particularly vindictive and, frankly, revolting.

          12. My comment was made, specifically, about your words. You seem determined to make it personal, contrary to the supposed rules of this site. But I expect nothing else though to describe it as “funny” seems perverse in the extreme, it is not at all funny. Abusive would be a better way to describe your words.

          13. It’s all in the interpretation.

            You are quite happy to dish it out, but less appreciative when someone gives you your own back.

            I happen to think that you are one of the most abusive posters on Nottle.

            If you wish to be abusive to me, that’s your choice, but don’t go whining about the supposed rules when I interpret your words as abusive and reply in kind.

          14. You really should stop writing such nasty things about yourself. They are clearly not about me.

            Since it is impossible to discuss anything with you without your reversion to abuse and bullying then I will simply revert to the treatment reserved for such persons.

          15. Given, that as far as I can tell, that I am one of the few on Nottle who actually bothers to reply to posts from you, I suggest that you take a good close look at yourself before complaining about other people’s responses.

          16. Funny can mean strange. Not just humour. Do keep up !

            You choose your own interpretation of meanings to attack others. Shameful behaviour.

          17. Didn’t take long for you to switch from reasonable to Cruella De Ville mode. You’ve been practicing.

          18. If my MP votes for mandatory vaccination and I have to be declared mentally incapable and have the vaccine administered forcibly then in my opinion it becomes open season on both that MP and his family re their vaccination records.

  68. Just wondering if anyone here knows their blood group.

    Do A rh pos blood groups feel the cold more than O rh pos .. Just asking.

    Moh hates the cold , whereas I will even stand in the garden in my jimjams enjoying a cold thrill.

    As long as I feel a few goosepimples etc , I know I am alive . My hands are always warm , not sticky just warm , and I soon warm up even when I start to feel cold .

    Silly question to ask, I felt like rattling that off to the DT , just to compete with the other silly letters on there !

      1. I’m O+ as well. I feel the cold less than MOH who is also O+. Not proven is the answer, I think.

    2. A+.
      Never used to feel cold, until my stroke, now I’m cold all the time. Natural wool jumpers are the solution, knitted with love by one’s better half (’tis the love that keeps you warm!)
      Firstborn is A+, and wears a T shirt all year round. Mind you, he’s well insulated.

      1. Funny you should say that. Until I stated on HBP tablets in 2009 – I could go outside in a T-shirt when it was snowing. Now I feel cold all the time – indoors and out – and wear layers to kee it at bay. Drinking helps. Doesn’t stop the cold feeling – but helps you forget it…

        1. Indeed. Maybe it’s the BP tablets, or the diabetes tablet, or the blood thinners tablet, or… :-((

      2. I’ll guess you are on blood thinning medication? I was put on some to thin mine – and felt terribly cold – even during the summer. It was very depressing, doctor didn’t want to know, so during lockdown i went 3 days without one of them, felt much better and WARM. Took them for a few days – back to cold and down. Stopped again – 3 days and warm again. Have stopped taking that particular tablet except for warm or hot days – find that I can regulate my body temp with them.

        I am NOT recommending you do the same – just posting what I did.

          1. The one I stop/start is Coracten. They did try me on another , which I cannot remember the name of, but that was absolutely horrendous.

        2. Beautifully knitted jumpers, made of real wool, are my solution. SWMBO makes the jumpers, I do the wearing – ideal split of duties. Cosy, too. Like wearing a cat.

    6. I can never remember, Belle. I’ve always got cold hands. I feel the cold more these days. Clopridogrel as an anti-coagulant.

      1. Hi MM
        So now, what do you think of this fisherperson stuff, what ever next.
        Moh always has cold hands and feet .. and as he says a cold dinkly doo!
        I’m on Clopridogrel now since my TIA 3 years ago , but still feel warm .

        1. Well, a ‘fishperson’ must be a mermaid or a merman I suppose. Am I correct in assuming his ‘dinkly doo’ really shouldn’t be cold, unless he leaves it unwrapped, so to speak.

          2. I see, so finding the tree is easier than finding the dinkly doo. I know what it’s like when fishing on a small boat in the winter when trying to locate your tackle.

    8. I am B rh pos. I always feel the cold, and I dislike the heat. Equability is me, with a tendency to prefer cool.

    9. That cold thrill in your jimjams…

      I find it shrinks in the cold, how does Yoh stand up outside?

    10. I have a card in my passport showing my blood group – but only because, when we moved to near Monaco, and I had to have a blood test, the lab nurse asked me what it was. When I was unable to tell her – she was aghast and discovered it and gave me the cad. “Carry it ALWAYS” she said, “In case of a car accident…” I always have. Still can’t remember it…!

        1. Stupid boy – she meant when I was lying next to the wrecked vehicle, the SPs would be able to look at my card and know what sort of blood to give me…

          I know you have snow – but …..

    11. I’m quite happy to wander around in just a T-shirt in the morning when there is snow on the ground. When I did a locum in Kirchheim-Tech (S. of Stuttgart) in January/February, I used to wander in to the newsagent’s to collect my newspaper in just a t-shirt, much to everyone’s amazement. It’s different in the evenings, when I sometimes feel the cold.

    2. It may well have been around, but I think this orchestrated series of articles popping up regularly now is all being done to try to shift the “blame” away from China.

      I think what was around was a ‘flu.

      I had similar and tested negative for Covid, it nearly killed me when it became pneumonia.

      1. I had ‘flu in January (despite having had the jab). What I had in February, with all the Covid symptoms, was a lot more severe and put me in bed for longer.

          1. I still give the occasional cough, but it isn’t new; it’s been on and off since February. That’s one reason why I’ve stopped wearing a mask; it made it worse and I was starting to wheeze again. I have lost the wheeze since I’ve stopped masking up.

          2. Good enough reason to stop. Yesterday when I went to the post office I just pulled my scarf up a bit higher. Couldn’t be bothered to get the mask out of my pocket.

        2. Had what I called “Unflu” (Liksomflu) last week in February. Was like flu, but lacked a couple of symptoms. The worst was freezing sensations. Looking back, was likely a Covid infection, too late to test.

        3. Were you tested for Covid?

          I too had had the jab, but I believe it’s only about 50% effective, luck of the draw.

          1. No because it was before the panic. I just thought I was unlucky having two different strains of ‘flu – I suppose, in a way, I was. I just did what I always do when I get a bad cold or ‘flu; stayed in bed, kept warm, drank lots of fluids, took cough medicine and generally didn’t exert myself.

          2. My normal plan of attack too.

            This time the GP came out (almost unheard of here) and sent me straight to the hospital and in their wisdom they shoved me into the ICU.

          4. “All”??????

            Fortunately, HG sent us a message. We sighed with……………….relief!!

          6. I know – but I contact him from time to time off line and had had no reply. After a bit, his wife picked up his mail and replied telling me what had happened.

          7. Thank you, one and all.

            Normally at that time of year we would have been in Oz but it wasn’t to be for different reasons.

        1. Apparently not the old village chippie eh.

          Even as a teenager I always found it difficult to believe all the supposedly true religious stories when i was at my C of E school.
          The most interesting person to teach us RI was a lovely Jewish lady at least she made it fun.

          1. One of my RI teachers was a short-arse, short-tempered little bully. If you weren’t prepared to accept the word of the Bible at face value he would give you a detention.

          4. Did he throw conkers at you from the nature table ?
            We had one who was quite a disturbing character. He insisted on using the word Yahweh, an hour of his BS each week was enough for me. But during my time at the school the ‘teachers’ came and went in rapid succession. And then there was compulsory once a month church service. It was enough to make a pupil cross.

          6. We had a teacher who threw the blackboard rubber.
            Looking back i always thought it strange how quickly some of our teachers were replaced with no explanation. Only the oldies seemed to be cemented into place.

          7. If a teacher threw a blackboard rubber at one of my children, I would be down to the school kicking the doors in.

  71. OT:
    Just organised Christmas food & alcohol deliveries for my Mother – looks like we’ll be having Christmas in different countries this year, and looking at her age, it’s quite likely it’s her last Christmas on this Earth. So, loaded it up with nice sweet stuff (bugger her diabetes), mince pies and booze. Raspberries, all kind of scrummy (the best that Morrison’s can supply, anyhow) stuff. Somewhat restricted due to the state of her teeth not allowing much chewing or crunching…
    Although she’s a miserable bugger and going daft, it’s a bit hard to be planning that we’re not going to be together at some point over the “festivities”, and in fact it’s more than likely she’ll be alone. LIfe can be a bugger now & again.

    2. At least she’s still able to live at home – it’s cruel the way old people in care homes are unable to have any visits from family. I know it’s difficult for you being so far away from her. I hope she will enjoy the goodies.

      1. I’m lucky, I can visit my wife whenever I want through the window but I’m limited to a couple of times a week to enter the care home and even then I have to keep my distance and wear protective clothing, I prefer the former. I’m hoping things will ease a bit for Xmas as I usually have my Xmas dinner at the home and consequently am able to feed her instead of the staff, I guess this year it might be turkey flavoured crisps at my house :o(

        1. Are you still able to entertain the residents with your music – or has that stopped as well? It’s a sad way to live at the moment.

          1. Unfortunately not – they do have a collection of my CDs which they play as background music. The residents are confined to their rooms except for an hours exercise every day split into 3 sessions on their own. I worry about the effect on their mental health but SWMBO seems to be coping well, I look forward to the day I can get back to taking her out in the car.

          2. It’s no life for the poor old people, is it? I’m finding life tedious, but for them it must be purgatory. We used to do visits to care homes to talk to them about hedgehogs – the last visit we did was last February.
            Most homes employ someone to arrange “enrichment” but presumably that’s all stopped now. Terrible for their mental health.
            I’m glad your OH seems to be coping, but it must be even harder for you.

    3. If one more politician stands up on their hind legs and tells me in their oh-so-caring tones that they know how difficult it is for us in this situation and they understand what we’re all going through, I will throw something (perhaps, up!)

  72. Evening, all. Actually it makes perfect sense for Bojo not to have a test. They’ve claimed he’s had it, so if he tests negative he either hasn’t and they’ve lied (what a surprise!) or it shows the test is crap and returning a false negative, thus discrediting their test and trace nonsense. I see they are contemplating a 4 tier system (but probably without a tier 1, so High, Very High and Write your WIll) which won’t be much different from a full-scale lockdown. We need to be out protesting.

  74. NOVEMBER

    Thomas Hood

    No sun — no moon!
    No morn — no noon —
    No dawn — no dusk — no proper time of day.

    No warmth, no cheerfulness, no healthful ease,
    No comfortable feel in any member —
    No shade, no shine, no butterflies, no bees,
    No fruits, no flowers, no leaves, no birds! —
    November!

      1. I find January the dreariest month of the year – Christmas and New Year are over, and the summer holidays are a long way away.

        1. Dark November brings the fog,
          Should not do it to a dog.

          Freezing wet December, then…
          Bloody January again!

          4. But terribly, terribly slowly to begin with. But I agree – at least there is something to which to look forward.

        3. But the days are getting longer – and the winter holday closer. I always hate this time of year and the dreaded Christmas looming.

          9. #metoo. Especially this year – the first Christmas we have spent in England since 1992 (and for Carolyn 1984).

            In yer France it was all so much simpler. most shops shut on 25th Dec and 1st Jan – otherwise – life went on as usual.

        4. November – Preparing for Christmas!
          December – Advent, followed by Christmas!
          January – skiing
          February – more skiing
          March – desparate last skiing before season finishes.
          April – Days getting longer
          May – Best month of year. Warm, flowers, leaves, grass, wonderful colours.
          June – Long, long days. Mountain walking, lake swimming
          July – Painting outdoors. High mountain walking, more lake swimming.
          August – More painting outdoors. Home grown veg.
          September – Painting outdoors again, late flowers and veg
          October – Scrunching through fallen leaves.

    3. Very mild here today and there was a dozy bumblebee on my Viburnum blossom and 2 greenfinches hopping around in the Elaeagnus. The oak trees still have leaves, but they are no longer green.

      2. It has been mild throughout here but there is drizzle today. Today on my feeders I have had greenfinches, tree sparrows, bramblings, chaffinches, house sparrows, great tits, blue tits, hawfinches, robins and blackbirds. Last week I had five waxwings.

        This morning I caught a wood mouse in my mouse trap in the garage. I put it on a bird table beside the concrete water bath. It was only there two minutes when a magpie flew off with it in its bill.

        1. I don’t have feeders, they attract the local cats… I simply noticed what was about as I walked up the path. The garden is something of a jungle so there’s usually some activity.

          1. My feeders are enclosed in a home made wooden cage, with door, that is situated inside a copse. Birds up to the size of a great spotted woodpecker can fly in through the 2″ mesh but crows and cats can’t get in. The smaller birds enjoy their feed in safety.

          2. I sounds idyllic; I don’t have that sort of space, and this street has a fairly large cat population. So I content myself with leaving them plenty of shelter.

    4. Perfect time to go to Australia, November. Late spring/early summer, barbies, beer, cold white wine… types that you never see in Europe.
      Wonderful!

      1. Don’t forget the Race That Stops A Nation on the first Tuesday. Magic – all human (and sometimes not so human!) life is there 🙂

    1. Pickles would kill the balls. Gus would just remove them and put them away for later digestion!

      1. Certainly looks like that – I just read the article and immediately thought of Bill’s kittens…

        1. It needs a bit of development, but it looks like a good idea.

          I’m always reminded of the “Trunky” suitcases for children that were rejected by “Dragon’s Den” but went on to be a huge seller.

          Good luck to them.

          And the cats!

      2. Always been “ourmaninmunich” since joing both Disqus and the Nottlers.
        At some point i will get around to adding an Avatar piccy thingamijig.
        Holding down a full time job and chasing around after my family, so don’t get to contribute as much as I would like.
        I am an avid reader of the posts and really appreciate the combined wit and wisdom of all who contribute – it helps keep me sane!
        Wibble!

  76. Right – that’s me for today. The MR is on a work “webinar” (ghastly word) for another half hour – so I must go and fill her glass. Might even refill mine.

    Have a spiffing evening.

    A demain

          1. Oddly enough that was my original thought, but then I said to myself, GG will ban me from Nottle if I suggest he’s last century!

        1. No, seriously, I was admiring your use of technical language. I had not even noticed that there had been a problem – though I did wonder why a post two mins before was shown as an hour old.

          Take a bow, missus.

    2. When you look at the full statement, not too bad in the hyperbole stakes for a politician.

      Isn’t it about two months until the possible change of government? Would it not make sense to work with the potential new government to ease them into managing the mass vaccination program that will roll out in early 2021?

    1. It was the ‘we’re trying out new development methods’ that I didn’t understand.

      Why trying them out now? Why rushing it out *now*?

      My doctor has been telling me for years there’s nothing he can do about a virus. Why suddenly can they prevent/cure them?

      1. Measles is a virus. So is Polio. There have been vaccines for measles for nearly 60 years and for Polio for at least as long. The first ones weren’t so good, but they got a lot better. They’re just in the process of developing a new Polio vaccine, because the old one has started to cause problems after all these years.

          1. Indeed not. Something neither I, nor the comment to which I responded, mentioned.

            Whether a vaccine can be found which is effective against this rather nasty coronavirus, or not, remains to be seen. But I do not see that as a reason not to try.

          3. They can try but the success rate so far is just about zilch and the costs of research astronomical.

            We are unable to see the contracts other than to read about the political promises but our politicians should not be announcing the proposed purchasing of millions of doses of untried and unproven vaccines from companies, many of which have atrocious records in selling vaccines to the poorer countries with disastrous consequences.

            Pfizer is one such. Glaxo Smith Kline and Sanofi fall into the same category.

            These are drug companies whose modus operandi is to sell drugs to the NHS at enormous mark ups and to profit from the results of their sales. The health of the nation(s) is about the last item on their list of priorities.

      2. I’m not trying to mitigate what’s happening, but I do get the impression that inordinate amounts of dosh have been used to do this. I suppose it’s because inordinate amounts of dosh are there to be made.

        1. And for that inordinate amount of dosh they’ll need an inordinate amount of brown envelopes. Are they getting the cash moved before the cashless society comes in for the rest of us?

        2. With just about every country in a blind panic, there are going to be never ending piles of money found for a cure.

          I think that Canadians can rest assured that our government ineptitude will save us from being early adopters of any vaccine. Despite splashing out who knows how much in vaccine orders, they are now saying vaccinations for all by the end of 2021.

          Blah blah, difficult, blah blah monumental task, blah blah unknown complexities. A bunch of negative nannies.

        1. It will take years to develop a safe vaccine. The rush is because half the population of the US and UK have worked out that this Covid nonsense is a globalist scam.

          It explains why there is not a single clinical immunologist on SAGE or real scientists come to that. Ferguson and the rest are not doctors or researchers from our top laboratories but self interested buffoons with shares in drug companies.

          Ferguson has a track record of achievement worse than Eddy the Eagle in his chosen sport viz. bamboozling idiot politicians with his incredible predictions.

          They have taken our immature government for a ride and taken the UK taxpayer for a fortune.

          1. By the time they are happy with the safety of a vaccine, the coronavirus will have mutated into a form that is immune.

        2. The article makes the arrival of a vaccine on the scene appear very, very dodgy.

          An RNA vaccine is an even more recent technology. It involves inserting a similar section of genome in the form of RNA directly into a target’s body, using their own cells to produce a piece of the pathogen for the immune system to recognise.

          If no significant problems are spotted in pre-clinical trials, this vaccine can then be tested on human volunteers for safety, and then again in a larger group to see if it’s effective.

          It sounds as though the vaccine is at the ‘larger group’ stage and the British public is to be the guinea pig for this. Disgraceful.

          1. I see an analogy with the vaccine expert Bill Gates and his highly vulnerable operating systems down the years. No security updates as with Apple but you had to invest in Norton anti-virus software and McAfee etc., I suspect he will have had shares in those too.

            Now Gates has ‘patents’ for vaccines supposedly fighting Covid viruses obtained before anyone had heard of this supposedly ‘novel’ coronavirus. Shit stinks and a mere whiff of it would turn most sentient beings against Gates and his pronouncements. The man is obviously a Eugenicist as was Goebbels.

            That man Gates just loves viruses. I reckon he is the product of some infection, not the cure for it.

    3. Does Boris care? Does Princess Nut Nuts care?

      Poor little Wilfred is no more than a pawn and pawns are the first things to be taken away on the chess board.

      1. You sacrifice pawns but they are the foot-soldiers of any engagement. A bit like real battles as it happens.

        Not sure why your eminently sensible observation was down voted so I have given you an uptick and would have done anyway in any event.

  85. Airline boss wanted for £2.3million fraud in Russia is the victim of political witch hunt led by Vladimir Putin, court hears. 17m November 2020.

    An airline boss wanted in Russia for a £2.3 million fraud is the victim of a political witch hunt conjured up by Vladimir Putin, a court heard today.

    Alevtina Kalashnikova is said to have swindled 212,325,636 rubles by selling bogus tickets while working at VIM Airlines in between 2014 and 2017.

    The deputy general director allegedly worked alongside CEO Alexander Kochnev to use the now defunct air carrier as a pyramid scheme moving foreign currency into their own accounts.

    Every villain in Russia who gets caught with his hand in the till invariably complains that Vladimir Putin has a personal grudge against him. I wish it were true but unfortunately the numbers and time available tells us that it isn’t.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8957437/Airline-boss-wanted-2-3m-fraud-Russia-victim-political-witch-hunt-led-Putin.html

    3. If he started out as a working class black boy from a family with little money, he has shown that opportunity is there for the taking in this country.

      2. He’s good at kicking a ball around. Fair play to him. A skill, he sold it. I don’t play football or have any interest in it and thus don’t fund him so he can do what he wants.

        What bothers is his misunderstanding that child poverty is caused by a lack of funding. It isn’t. It’s caused by government policy and incompetence.

    4. If he started out as a working class black boy from a family with little money, he has shown that opportunity is there for the taking in this country.

    7. People do start equal. They all have a mother and a father.

      After that, all bets are off. I’ve seen the wealthiest throw tutors and stuff at a kid who falls apart and a bin man get his daughter through Oxford.

      If he’s serious in his beliefs the right thing to do would be to demand welfare be radically reduced. If you can’t afford children, you shouldn’t have them. When they’re used a a whipping post against the tax payer for feckless breeder welfare loafers the child is already doomed.

      1. Right JenniferSp, you need to respond to that and explain your down vote.

        If you don’t, it is rendered null. You know I am right. Stop being a coward. Present an argument.

    8. ” that belief could do for the future of this country…” – – would that be the country that has been built up from work, taxes etc for many years? – and now has vastly overpaid bag-of-wind-kickers saying the populations of countries that didn’t bother to build anything in theirs, should be welcomed in their millions to use whatever WE have created??
      Well why doesn’t the bag-of-wind-kicker let an unlicensed, uninsured, newly arrived illegal immigrant live in his spare rooms, drive his cars etc etc for FREE – -because that is exactly the same as what he wants US to do – let in the world, for them to contribute NOTHING, while enjoying and destroying everything WE have worked and paid for.

    9. Just imagine how some of us might have had a little more respect for what you are (allegedly) trying to achieve if you had not engaged the services of a leading PR company to churn out drivel like this for you and to arrange photo-ops at a food bank…

      1. It’s strange-

        Marcus spends his money on personal publicity and photo-ops trying to get the Government to fork out.

        Sterling (blacker than Marcus) donates a good proportion of his pay to the less fortunate and is ignored by the Press.

        It really is a funny old world!

        1. We have a local artist who does pencil drawings of pets and they are indistinguishable from photos at a distance, unfortunately I am unable to upload photos to this site

      1. Wanqueur extraordinaire Just shows how useless Cur Ikea Slammer is. Corbynliner should have been banned for life.

        1. He counted the number of Jews in the party and the number of people who support anti-semitism, and made a pragmatic decision.

      3. Starmer has suddenly woken up to the fact that a very significant proportion of Labour supporters actually like Corbyn and that the last thing he needs is a breakaway party.

      4. Of course he’s sending that message! Got to pacify and please a VERY large section of the Labour party who were all in favour of the anti-semitism.

  92. “Young black people more than 10-and-a-half times more likely than white people to be victims of homicide in England and Wales.” D Fail

    Comments closed after 7 entries. Someone must have posted ‘Black on black’ – even the New Torygraf would have closed comments after a racist slur(sic) like that.

    2. Be fair, it’s almost certainly true.

      Young black people are more than 150 times more likely to be killed by other young black people is also probably true too.

      2. Provide it doesn’t come from the same factory that produced the recent batch of Novichok. It needs to be something more effective – same purpose but more potent.

          6. She’s done it again. I know she’s full of it but she could offload it elsewhere before lurking in the shadows and dumping willy-nilly on passing commentators.

      3. Give it to them first? – Where is Lewis Hamilton screaming for equality??? – -or is he ok with blatant discrimination?

    4. STOP… Stop and search now says Mayor Ghengis Khan. For once i agree with the little shit. Let them kill each other and then we can shoot the survivors.

      It is so hard remaining a Christian in the jungle. 🙁

    5. Yes, this is because other young blacks kill them. Until that can be said openly, without fear of censorship for racism or some other tosh will we actually start to address the problem. It’s a fact. Denying it doesn’t change it.

        1. Silly question, when do they start to see and chase their own tails, presumably they don’t realise it’s part of themselves?

          1. Best you make sure you’re first then.

            I’d hate to be the one after Phizzee with the tube.

            Sorreee Phizzeee

      1. I believe so too.

        But when it’s called as less than a penny in £100 of the nation’s wealth it seems like very little. And that’s how they sneak it out:

        “Less than a penny you say, that’s not much, surely?”

        “Actually it’s hundreds of millions of pounds and that’s a lot surely?”

          2. “cutting Britain’s overseas aid budget from 0.7 per cent of national income to 0.5 per cent, “

          3. Either way, it’s far too much. We’re talking hundreds of millions of pounds that could be better spent at home at the moment.

            Ask Marcus Rashford!

          4. It should be chopped complete and we should revert to what used to be – send help when a natural disaster occurs.

    2. It is the Arab/Muslim way. You give them something freely and they will tell you it is not enough.

      1. I nearly got myself stabbed in Cairo because I didn’t realise that that was a cultural thing, and started to argue.

          1. Initially.

            By the end of our row he was more than a bit red in the face.

            Looking back, it was very stupid on my part.

            Mostly it was an extremely good trip, but we were doing everything as independents and while walking near the Solar Boat exhibition the blighter latched on and would not take no for an answer. He would not leave us alone and then asked for a fee.

            I offered an Egyptian pound and he went ballistic, telling me how I was Gawd knows what.

            He pushed his nose right in my face and told me what a bad man I was (how they speak English when they want to!) at which point I shouted back at him that I was a VERY bad man and he didn’t know the half of it and let the £1 fly off.

            At that point he went for the money rather than me.

            HG was worried on two counts. 1 I would be stabbed. 2 he would not stab successfully and I would lose my rag completely and do something I really would have regretted.

            I am very non violent for a reason. If it breaks I don’t know how to stop and have to be pulled off.

          2. Nose to nose is the only way. Much like Stags facing off.

            My trip to Casablanca included a taxi driver that wanted to charge me so much that it would have put his extended family through private school in England and a man in a cheap dark suit who told me he worked at my hotel and his baby was very sick and he needed the equilavent of £200 (can’t remember the currency now) to save her. I did give him some money because his story was entertaining, but the taxi driver got the hairdryer treatment and what i believed to be a fair rate thrown in his face.

            As i had a bit of a hard day fending off the scammers i had a look of thunder on my face when i got back to my hotel.

            The chap on the desk said to me that i would be perfectly safe on the streets and not to worry. I told him to rein in the shit that came to my room every morning to change the unused mini-bar because he wouldn’t stop following me around with his hand out.

            I won’t be going back.

          3. Oddly enough, I loved our holidays there, we met some wonderful people and had a really good time apart from a few irritations. The worst was walking near the Cairo museam at mosque chucking out time, the bastards took great delight in rubbing themselves up against HG. Normally in crowds I go first and she follows; in Cairo we very soon learned that she had to go first and I followed very close behind.

            Animals.

          4. Once in a blue moon is when I lose my temper, and it frightens me when I do. Can’t sleep with adrenalin pumping round.

  96. Past presidential voting totals and compare them to this year’s:

    2008: 129,500,000.

    2012: 127,000,000.

    2016: 129,000,000.

    2020:
    To date (November 16) — 151,890,753 — and the vote count still isn’t complete, because California is still corruptly continuing to harvest votes, and won’t be until almost Christmas!

    Anybody see anything strange in the numbers above? Read more: https://www.americanthinker…

    1. No, I don’t see anything strange at all. For the past 4 years, Trump has galvanised the US population and created two bitterly opposed sections of it. The two sides were equally passionate about their cause and it was always going to be an election that brought out the crowds as never before. Every state reported unprecedented numbers of voters. What are you trying to imply? Whether or not you support Trump, it is undeniable that he has jolted the US electorate from its apathy.

      1. It is still only just over fifty percent of the population,.

        Why would California keep finding votes, Biden already has their electoral college votes sewn up and states have to certify their results way before Christmas.

        What percentage vote in UK elections.

        1. 50% of the population or of the electorate? The turnout for the 2019 UK GE was 67% (the referendum turnout was very high at 72%). That, of course, is for the electorate (registered voters) and not percentages of the entire population.

      2. Point noted, nothing to infer or imply, merely reading the evident signs, which seem to be gaining traction quicker than usual.

        Surrendering to a corrupt oligarchy and their blatant vote rigging would be an insult to the 73 million Trump voters. It would also send a clear cut message to the corrupt, Media,Big Tech and the Oligarchy that they can do what they like and ride roughshod over the votes of 50% of the electorate, ignore the Constitution and prove to voters their vote counts for nothing.

        The old guard money sitting within Democrat / Republicans has its ongoing concerns internally and what passes for a system is worried. The same issues / signs can be seen clear as daylight with the UK 2016 Referendum.

        Outside that, the numbers speak for themselves and Stateside, if Sidney Powell and others produce real evidence publicly and in the Supreme court to show exactly how they cheated in the election, outside the US, everyone will sit back and watch it implode as the Supreme Court will be in the inviolable position of following the Constitution or proving the system’s holed below the waterline.

        Plus there are other viewers here with no strong views one way or the other but at least are able to read an undiluted piece and draw their own conclusions

      4. Interesting that you see Trump as being responsible for the bitterly opposed sections, rather than the left, who never expected their hegemony to be challenged and never accepted the result in 2016.

        Also, Bush was pretty controversial, as was Obama, as was Trump in 2016. I don’t really buy the left’s explanation that 20 million extra people hated Trump so much that they turned out to vote this time!

        1. Responsibility and blame are not the same thing. Trump is undoubtedly responsible – you know, “the buck stops here” and all that. Responsibility means being liable to be called to account. Blame is negligence, criminality and wrongful doing. Trump galvanised the US electorate (no bad thing and very creditable”) and because they were galvanised, US voters on both sides became very passionate and emotional about their cause. This was exploited by people on both sides to create bitterness and resentment. The question becomes did Trump knowingly and deliberately seek to fuel these feelings? If he did, then he is also to blame, if he didn’t, then it was others who exploited the situation. I tried to tread a non-partisan course in my post but there will always be others who see in it criticism of one side or the other.

          1. For the majority part, I’ve certainly found the exchanges here of good natured accord but on threads where there’s disagreement, pople can debate these points. Small c conservatives, by their nature, like to discuss and debate rather than being locked in an echo chamber
            and for a while, many of us on these pages can debate without conversation turning ugly. Articles links may appear from authors / commenters who we wouldn’t agree with but we can discuss them sensibly below the line.

            I quite like that. On these pages, we all have the freedom to discuss an issue, either with each other or with the author, without the threat of being censored or polite conversation turning sour. Long may that continue.

          2. The buck for the mainstream media hardly stops with the President of the US!
            Trying not to be partisan, but the coverage in Europe has been utterly disgraceful for four years. Constant stream of photos of Trump looking like an ape, constant stream of anti-Trump headlines, many suggesting that he is a criminal who should be in prison.
            The Democrats had an office funded to the tune of millions dedicated to producing professionally turned out negative stories about Trump for his entire Presidency.
            All this stuff is very divisive, and nobody can doubt for a moment that it would have turned off like a tap if Trump had started towing the mainstream line.
            The divisions over Trump did not grow organically – they were whipped up.

          3. The buck for anything and everything that happens in the US stops with the President. If the mainstream media are not behaving iaw the Constitution, then either the laws need changing or law-enforcement agencies need to enforce them – the buck for both of these lie with the President. Simply being critical in a partisan manner is often unfair or even cruel but, if the media is not illegal then the public can vote against them by refusing to buy them or patronise their services. I concede, however, that this does not apply to the BBC or state-owned media outlets. By the way, you don’t have to look very far in US or UK papers and magazines to find cartoons of Biden in a wheelchair or otherwise mocking his age, frailty or mental faculties. Whatever their political hue, politicians who can’t stand the heat of the kitchen should leave it and their supporters should realise that a free media is our best defence against tyranny. And free means being able to be critical, mocking and unsympathetic to politicians. After all, there is a very radical element of Western society that would ban all cartoons that even hinted at criticism of their leader.

          4. Yeah right, I can just imagine the storm if Trump tried to stop the media from depicting him in an unfairly negative light!
            I can’t really take your argument seriously (that Trump is responsible for divisions in the US) when you pretend that Biden and Trump have been treated evenly by the mainstream media. The suppression of the Hunter Biden-laptop story on social media is well known, as is the reporting of rape allegations against Trump, that were quietly withdrawn with no fanfare at a later date.

          5. Would you take any argument seriously if it wasn’t your own? I did not say that Trump and Biden had been treated evenly – I simply pointed out that it was not just one-way. If you cannot accept that politics is a hard, cruel blood sport with keen players on both sides, you are not being realistic. Actually, I do think that the UK and European media has been more inclined to criticise Trump than Biden, and often reports Trump’s statements out of context and in a way that shows him in a bad light. However, at least in the case of main-land Europe, Trump’s frequent criticisms of, and attacks against, the continent have not exactly earned him a great deal of friendship. If the US media is as biassed, left-wing and unfair to the Republicans as you clearly believe, why have Republicans been voted into the White House plenty of times in recent years and Trump at the GE 4 years ago?

          6. I didn’t say the media has been biased against Republicans in general, and of course any politician has to accept hard things. But the way Trump has been depicted is in a class of its own. I don’t recall any politician in my lifetime getting this treatment. Farage is the only one who comes close, in the early days of UKIP.

            In my work, I see the US mainstream media every day, and I have seen every day a new negative headline about Trump. Not just negative headlines, but what he has said is twisted or taken out of context to make him seem vain, conceited, insane, stupid, mentally unfit to govern. Bad photos that catch him at an unfortunate moment are routinely used, whereas photos of Biden or Obama that make them look statesmanlike are used.
            On the TV, pieces are cut out of what Trump says, in order to change the meaning.
            One example that sticks in my mind was when he said that he wouldn’t wear a mask, but if the doctors changed their advice, he would wear one.
            IIRC, someone on here noticed it early in the morning and commented that the media would remove the second part. Sure enough, on all repeats later in the day, the second part was removed, and the impression was given that Trump was against masks.
            In Germany, someone repeated this to me as evidence that Trump was a fool. I told him about the missing segment and he said “but that can’t be – I saw it on the TV, when he finished speaking, they left the room” My friend did not even realise that a section had been cut out. This is normal in Germany incidentally, where they mostly believe that Trump is a half-wit voted in by an uneducated, duped electorate – because this is what their mainstream media is telling them.

            Now I am sure this is done to every politician, but not every politician is painted as an insane half-wit as Trump has been.
            You could project that image of Obama, Biden, Bush and any other President – IF you wanted to, by manipulating media output and photos. But it wasn’t done.

      5. Interesting that you see Trump as being responsible for the bitterly opposed sections, rather than the left, who never expected their hegemony to be challenged and never accepted the result in 2016.

        Also, Bush was pretty controversial, as was Obama, as was Trump in 2016. I don’t really buy the left’s explanation that 20 million extra people hated Trump so much that they turned out to vote this time!

        1. One of the pictures posted a few days ago showed some anatomy which wouldn’t normally belong to Thomasina.

          We had a ginger queen many years ago and she had a couple of ginger grand-daughters, but they’re not very commonly found.

          Pickles isn’t gendered but I’ve yet to meet a lass called Gus 😉

  99. Just removed a pile of kittens from my lap to come for a last post or two. In this dark and miserable time – they don’t half make you feel better. Pickles runs towards me and climbs on to my lap! When he is not mollicating his brother.

    Ladder work tomorrow – a couple more cleats to keep the Kifsgate in order. It got its own back yesterday, attacking me viciously. Despite wearing gloves..

    Anyone got any idea of the “normal” ‘flu figures for the second half of 2020? Or is there NO “seasonal” ‘flu this year, by some miracle of statistics?

      1. Edited because i forgot to include the link. Tthe spreadsheet showing weekly deaths is informative.

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