Saturday 21 November: A civilised society does not make Christmas prisoners of lonely people

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its comments facility (now reinstated, but not as good as ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/11/21/letters-civilised-society-does-not-make-christmas-prisoners/

767 thoughts on “Saturday 21 November: A civilised society does not make Christmas prisoners of lonely people”

    1. I was woken my MOH wanting me to cook. When I had got up, dressed and come down to do it, I found the kitchen and dining room full of smoke! MOH couldn’t be bothered to wait and had burned the offering. Unfortunately, I left the door to the hall open a fraction too long as I wondered what was going on and the smoke alarm went off! NOT a good start to the day.

  2. Morning all. Here’s the first lot……

    SIR – I live in a low-Covid Tier-1 rural area and have been really careful since March. For the same length of time my Mum, who is 86, has lived largely as a recluse in a small rented flat.

    Our plan is that she will come to my husband and me for Christmas, 60 miles away. Unless I am arrested en route to collect her, that is what will happen. Making prisoners of lonely people is a terrible way for a civilised society to proceed, and I for one will no longer tolerate it.

    We are not planning a rave. We just intend to have a small family Christmas at home. And we will.

    Sandie Lewis

    Seend Cleeve, Wiltshire

    SIR – You report (November 18) that a chapter had to be dropped in Nigella Lawson’s new cookbook “when inviting people for supper was placed on the Government’s list of banned activities”. That is the most depressing sentence that I have read this year.

    Paul Streeter-Jewitt

    Bath, Somerset

    SIR – Civil liberties are for life and not just for five days of Christmas.

    Russell Margerrison

    Great Horwood, Buckinghamshire

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    SIR – Has anyone given thought to travel over the expected few family days at Christmas? Trains will be rammed, and social distancing impossible. Tickets will be hard to come by, and trains don’t usually run on Christmas Day and Boxing Day.

    For us oldies who are desperately missing their grandchildren, particularly those like myself who live alone, are clinically vulnerable by age, and whose family live at the other end of the country, I certainly can’t see any light at the end of the tunnel.

    Shirley Westwood

    Headcorn, Kent

    SIR – Frederick Forsyth and others (Letters, November 18) make a misleading comparison of vaccination and medical experimentation.

    Aged three, I nearly died from bilateral pneumonia after a bout of measles. (In 1954 there was no vaccine against measles.) We were all vaccinated against diphtheria, tetanus, and polio, unless there was a medical contraindication. In my clinical practice I have never seen an acute case of diphtheria, tetanus or polio.

    Those against vaccination usually lack a scientific education and are likely to be ineducable in such matters.

    John M Scott FRCS

    Aspley Guise, Bedfordshire

    SIR – On ringing my GP surgery on Thursday on another matter, I inquired about having a flu vaccination, given the announcement of free inoculation for the over-50s.

    The polite receptionist advised me that, while I was fully entitled, there was no chance, as they had no stock and no idea when more would come. It was suggested I try a pharmacist.

    It is not a good look for the health service or its contractors, let alone those of us who pay for it.

    Nick Brown

    Knowle, Warwickshire

    1. Flu has disappeared this year worldwide. It is almost as though covid were a cure for flu. Who d’of thunk it?

      1. 326670+ up ticks,
        Morning LM,
        I did mention it some time ago that
        the number manipulators would have the flu casualties hovering around zero.

    2. Interesting Paul Streeter-Jewitt clearly is not an avid reader then. Dropping a “Hells Angels” chapter is on the essential list, which Paul codifies as in a book

      1. There have been a lot of new posters on the NoTTL site recently. I have no objections to new members joining us; it may, after all, be some of the “regulars” changing their avatar names. But can I please ask you all to express yourselves more clearly. For example in your case, AW Kamau, I am totally baffled by what you are trying to tell us in your second sentence above.

        1. Picking the underlying thread of non news / deception agenda which has been in play all year. Given this and other sites are being monitered, sending the standard counter message

          4. I’ve been busy sitting on and off the pot for a couple of weeks with salmonella food poisoning, as has Best Beloved.

            I have to be honest it was my (under) cooking of stuffed Chix Tits that did it.

            I shan’t use the microwave roasting function again! Back to the ‘proper’ oven.

    3. While I see John M Scott’s point, he misses out the information that the three vaccines he mentions surely weren’t developed and tested within a year? That makes quite a difference! He also doesn’t mention that most of our politicians, who are producing all these new laws, also “usually lack a scientific education and are likely to be ineducable in such matters.“

  3. SIR – Missing from our present defence review is an understanding that we are in the middle of the Third World War – and we are losing.

    It wasn’t a war fought with aircraft carriers and tanks, but with a highly contagious biological virus. The war didn’t ruin cities, it ruined Western economies and thereby humbled Western hegemony.

    Alan Stedall

    Sutton Coldfield

  4. SIR – Anne Hayward (Letters, November 20) identifies the problem of charging leads crossing pavements. I fear the Government may insist on the availability of off-road parking as a requirement for vehicle ownership.
    Justice Hawkins

    Dont be daft.

  5. SIR – BBC Radio 1 will no longer play the original version of Fairytale of New York sung by Shane Macgowan and Kirsty Maccoll (report, November 20) for fear the lyrics of this love song will upset the delicate ears of its young audience.

    On behalf of all the world’s Gordons, I’d like to ask the BBC’S woke police to stop playing Jilted John, as for the last 45 years I’ve been offended by everyone singing “Gordon is a moron”.

    Gordon Breslin
    Beckenham, Kent

    Well I, for one, Gordie, am more than relieved by not being forced to endure that awful dirge by the talent-free and tuneless MacColl whenever I wander into a large shop.

    As for the other idiotic ditty, maybe it was a sideways swipe at a certain Mr Brown?

  6. Charles Moore:

    This week, Boris Johnson promised a Green Industrial Revolution and an end to new petrol cars by 2030. He is not the first. In the Labour manifesto at the last election, on which his party went crashing to defeat, Jeremy Corbyn promised a “Green Industrial Revolution” and an end to new petrol cars by 2030.

    In current mainstream politics, everyone is Green, with the Left setting the pace. The only competition is to be Greener than thou. Obviously, this is a better situation than if all parties agreed they couldn’t care less about the future of the planet, but not as much of an improvement as you might imagine. The problem when all parties agree is that they stop thinking. The public suffers.

    I am just old enough to remember this happening about inflation, which took off in Britain in the late Sixties. Both parties decided that inflation could be defeated only by “prices-and-incomes policies”. This meant the Government settling with trade unions and employers what people should be paid and what things should cost. The consequences were lower productivity and more strikes, as union leaders used their industrial muscle to win higher pay settlements. Inflation kept jerking upwards. The whole thing collapsed in the Winter of Discontent in 1979, helping bring Margaret Thatcher to power, which she held until she announced her resignation 30 years ago on Saturday.

    About 90 per cent of the political class agreed with prices-and-incomes control at the time, but the policy did not survive contact with reality. Hardly anyone supports it now.

    Obviously climate change will not similarly vanish. It is a huge issue, probably a growing one. But it is also one framed by politicians of all parties in the language of emergency and catastrophe. This drives a bad policy consensus.

    Even firm believers in the dangers of climate change admit they cannot know what will happen. A global increase of 1.5 degrees Celsius over pre-industrial temperatures by the end of the century would be manageable – even, in some respects, benign – whereas one of 4 degrees Celsius would be extremely perilous. They cannot say which it will be, yet they act as if they know disaster is on its way.

    So our over-excited leaders have a timetable which they constantly try to bring forward. Announcing his 10-point-plan, Boris invoked the COP26 conference which Britain is hosting in Glasgow next year as a reason for hurrying. But that meeting and timetable (delayed because of Covid) are mere by-products of another date arbitrarily chosen – Net Zero greenhouse gases by 2050.

    Such plans and announcements also have political motivations unrelated to what is allegedly happening to the climate. “Although this year has taken a very different path to the one we expected,” says Boris, for once deploying an understatement, “I haven’t lost sight of our ambitious plans to level up across the country”.

    He is careful to remind people that the main places where the new “Green jobs” will be found are in the North East, Yorkshire, Humber, the West Midlands, Scotland and Wales – the “Red Wall” and what people used to call the Celtic fringe. It is understandable that politicians wish to protect their parliamentary majorities, but it is nothing whatever to do with the future of the planet.

    Such political calculation also operates on a completely different timescale. Boris is currently 56 years old. So he will be 86 when we do (or don’t) achieve Net Zero. It is even highly unlikely that he will still be Prime Minister in 2030, so he will be gone when it turns out that the promised quadrupling of offshore wind capacity has proved punitively expensive, or has not worked, or both. (At present, according to Andrew Montford of the Global Warming Policy Foundation, “the overall cost of a megawatt hour of wind energy has steadily risen, so that now it is perhaps four times that from a gas turbine.”) Boris talks of the future of the earth for 30 years and far beyond, but he thinks of the 2024 general election.

    If you challenge the need for the rush and the truly vast financial outlays the Government is demanding, the zealots’ answer is to invoke the “precautionary principle”. The perils are so great, they say, that we must err on the safe side with technology that avoids fossil fuels. Yet no such precautionary principle is applied to the economic effects of the drastic policies proposed in the 10-point-plan.

    Critics have already observed that the compulsory switch to electric cars will be an expensive purchase for the consumer and a physical problem for the millions of motorists who lack the space to install a convenient charging point where they live. It will also vastly increase the demand for electricity. In recent years, energy prices have not shot up, because shale has reduced the price of oil and gas. If those options are phased out, green energy becomes nakedly expensive, and consumers have no way out of it. Fuel poverty is one of the great political horrors that politicians seek to avoid. We now have policies which will impose it.

    I inhabit an old, detached house in the country with elderly gas boilers. I am consulting our wise boiler expert, Jeremy, about what we should do to replace them.

    Well, he says, we could buy air-source heat pumps, but they cost four or more times replacement boilers (between £10,000 and £20,000). They do not produce nearly such high temperatures as gas. The pieces of kit have to be located outside the dwelling. Air-source heat pumps demand so much more electricity that we might need a new feed of supply from the road. Jeremy adds that Britain is anyway in “an electricity-impoverished state”, so the supply might not even be there in ten years.

    Or we could install ground-source heat pumps, but they have even lower temperature yield than air-source ones. To put the required underfloor heating in a house like ours would create “carnage”, or we could “grossly oversize” all the radiators.

    There is also a looming doubt about what will actually happen when an entire country fairly quickly discards gas boilers. There is currently gas central heating in more than 22 million homes. Can we believe that a Government-inspired replacement technology will be available for all when we all need it – or will it be “world-beating”, like Test and Trace?

    None of the above impugns the need to search for low-carbon energy. The problem is Government, urged on by pseudo-religious fanaticism. In the Middle Ages, it was common for rulers to summon up crusades to the Holy Land to prove their piety. Always these were bloody and time-consuming. (Richard the Lionheart spent more of his reign fighting them than ruling in England.) Frequently they were futile. But they could raise a king’s reputation. Climate change is the 21st-century equivalent, and so Boris wants, as reporters put it, to “burnish his Green credentials”. Given that two thirds of the world are not even trying to follow the rules towards Net Zero, his sacrifice of our money is futile.

    This is governmental vanity. The Prime Minister wants a Green Industrial Revolution. Look at the real Industrial Revolution – the one which made Britain rich. It was not started by a politician in 1760 or thereabouts saying, “Let’s have an industrial revolution” and taxing everyone to make it happen. It started for almost the opposite reason – that inventive people were free to get on inventing, and Government kept its distance.

    A BTL comment, which sums up my view, although much more eloquently:

    Clive Brooks
    20 Nov 2020 10:18PM
    This is a very good article. Exactly what I have been thinking – and I suspect many other people too!

    The trouble is that you dare not confess that you doubt the ‘green’ policies that are being pushed down our throats. It would be almost akin to confessing that you are a climate change denier or homophobic, racist or some other …’ic’ or ‘ist’!! All the ‘wokes’ would howl at the very idea!

    Your point that only a few countries will implement these policies, at such an horrendous cost to their inhabitants is well taken. The savings we could achieve would be completely nullified by countries like China opening more and more coal-fired power stations to produce the goods that foolish Western countries will no longer produce, mainly because of the extortionate costs of subsidising green energy! Russia, India, the USA and even Germany are still operating, and in some cases building, more coal-fired power stations!

    China will profess that it is changing a proportion of its power production to green energy while laughing at the stupid Western leaders who hand it even more of an advantage. I would not be surprised if we don’t also give them some of our money from the Overseas Developement Fund!

    I think Boris Johnson’s ‘green energy’ policy is probably one of the greatest economic threats that this country will now now face!!

    1. Any policy based on government subsidy is a bad policy. Any industry dependent on such subsidy is doomed.

      But Boris doesn’t care about that. He’s a strange fellow. How can he be so obviously intelligent and yet realise how utterly idiotic these policies are? Especially considering the state of the economy. Green jobs are nothing of the sort. They’re tax payer funded subsidy for equipment we do not need or want and a folly we simply cannot afford.

    2. 326670+ up ticks,
      Morning HJ,
      We had them really worried on the 24/6/2016 right up until the counterfeit tory’s took a hand & the semi re-entry campaign was triggered.

      1. Good morning ogg

        You are quite right.

        If we had had a prime minister with any testicular strength at all we would have been completely free of the EU in just a few months after the referendum – but we got Teraita May – possibly the worst PM since Major

        The Conservatives were and still are a total disgrace but Labour, the SNP, the Greens, thee Lib/Dems are no better.

        1. 326670+ up ticks,
          R,
          I would go as far to say it is a proven fact they are in total with the Country in mind a,
          Demolition coalition and have been such for at least three decades.

        2. 326670+ up ticks,
          Morning R,
          Mr Batten explained a viable route out of the eu
          The Road to Freedom: How Britain can leave the European …www.amazon.co.uk › Road-Freedom-unconditional-uni…
          by Gerard Batten (Author), Tim Congdon (Foreword) Format: Kindle Edition … “The route to Brexit is a Gordian Knot of a problem that requires an Alexandrian solution,” he … This book was originally written in 2014, 2 years before the EU referendum. … A must read for anyone wishing to know about our way out of the EU.
          Then again why would those busy with keeping “their” party in power listen to a far right, racist politico ?
          Far right should, in reality read,
          so far right.
          Treachery had to be worked for at the polling booth & was,successfully time & again.

      1. When I was a schoolboy one boy used to utter the following curse upon his enemies:

        May coagulated faeces descend upon your anal sphincter and cause you everlasting constipation.

        1. Or an Army one, (blanked for bad language):-
          May your earholes turn to arseholes and shit all over your shoulders.

  11. Naturally I grieve at the death (passing) of J Morris – but, to me, he always looked like a bloke in drag – right to the end.

    1. Morning Bill,

      Sad but yes, they always do. I know one who’s recently had his bits cut off but it doesn’t change anything. He looks like a middle aged bloke in a frock and of course his voice is still masculine. That only changes if you cut the bits off before puberty.

      2. What does one do with the spare bits. A jar on the mantlepiece? Always useful as a leak stopper or trimmings for the xmas tree.

        2. I was appalled to discover some years ago, that people have their ‘loved one’s’ ashes incorporated into jewellery; like those acrylic paperweights that we knocked out in the 1970s (and the fumes often knocked us out as well).
          I know that brooches incorporating the deceased’s hair were a Victorian fashion accessory, but somehow this seems another step down a strange road.

        4. When a very small boy, sometimes I would go with my father to a local vet – if one of our dogs was unwell.
          On the mantlepiece, in the waiting room, was a the head of a small monkey in a jar. Totally disgusting and freaky.

      3. Morning, Sue.

        Any bloke who cuts his bits off (or any woman who cuts her tits off) in order to “change sex” has gone from a him to an it (or a her to an it). I would never refer to any of them with any other pronoun other than it.

        1. Nahh, you can chop whatever you want off, your basic biology doesn’t change.

          A man doesn’t stop being a man because he has no willy. Biology is literally in our bones.

      1. Not sure that the Accies make much in the way of profits, but since they’ve been around since 1874 I doubt that even he could think of proving a claim against them 😉

    6. In Colchester, we have a Hamilton Road and a Hamilton School; maybe Whizzkid’s lawyers would care to deplete their client’s bank balance a little more.

      1. HM had a horse running today named Hamilton’s Fantasy – nothing to do with the blek; it was by Mount Nelson, so named for Emma Hamilton.

  14. Whilst we are busy navel-gazeing….

    China plans to rule the world and we are playing straight into their hands.
    THE People’s Republic of China has become obsessed with controlling the world order. The communist party’s nationalist inspired zealotry is spearheading an unrelenting drive for world domination, both politically and commercially.

    https://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/1346074/china-news-south-china-sea-dispute-xi-jinping-chinese-military-rule-the-world

    1. I would much sooner face a future eating salt and pepper squid with mushroom fried rice than sheep’s brain tagine with cous cous.

      1. The CCP is no better than an islamic dictatorship, that is why they are so keen to ´get rid of slam in their country – competition not wanted!

          1. My dictatorship will be different. It will be benevolent. The serfs need some rules, otherwise they breed like rabbits and ruin our beautiful planet.

        1. Had sheeps brains. Enough to make one a vegetarian, so it is. Or dine exclusively at McDonalds.

        1. Yeah yeah yeah, heard it all from PP.

          China takes over the world using the funds of Soros, ensures we all have Bill Gates’ vaccinations which are full of nanobot microchips with RFID that satellites can pick up from low Earth orbit.

          Really she should take up fiction. Conspiracy theory fiction sells well. We all love a good story!

      2. Where have you been in the last 20 years or so? The Chinese have openly said their goal is to dominate the world economically.

        1. Yes and they will just like the United States has for the previous century. They have the largest, most educated population in the world, and a wealth of natural resources, and a lot of western investment because labour there is dirt cheap by western standards. However, that’s just international trade, who’s worried about that? They are not going to dominate the world militarily and bring us all under the one world government run by the CCP which a lot of people here quite honestly see as the future.
          We set this in motion when we decided to free trade with a country where you could get 40 workers for the price of a westerner. Even today you can still get 8 chinese workers for the cost of one Brit.
          Say what you like about the CCP, economically they’ve done pretty well. Socially on the other hand it’s been a real mixed bag with quite a lot of abhorrent stuff going on.
          They still have a way to go to overtake the USA mind you. Still America is doing it’s best to help by electing an idiot and it seems now someone with dementia although that won’t be confirmed until the middle of December.
          The chinese might end up being the major economic power of the late 21st and early 22nd century, but never political domination.

          1. Are you serious? They already dominate the content of Hollywood films, via investments. They dominate the politics of small countries who took the Belt and Road “aid.” They dominate what can be said on British campuses due to the high number of Chinese students paying fees. This situation is only going to get worse if we let it! “He who pays the piper calls teh tune” may be an old saying, but it’s as true as ever.

          2. China doesn’t dominate Hollywood films. China is the largest box office market in the world surpassing even the USA. Writers know that their films will be shown in China and so they don’t put into films things that might get censored if they were shown there.
            In the past Hollywood didn’t care, most Chinese people didn’t go to the cinema.
            You tailor your goods to your consumers.

            My daughter is on a UK campus right this minute and hasn’t come across the situation you describe in three years there.

    3. Considering the WHO couldn’t lock China down to ensure the virus didn’t spread it’s rather obvious that these pan national organisations don’t work.

  15. 326670+ up ticks,
    “November: A civilised society does not make Christmas prisoners of lonely people”

    December, A civilised society does NOT grant 5 days at Christmas ie, visiting rights, and continue with 360 days
    incarceration going forward.

    A civilised society would NOT, definitely NOT entertain mass
    uncontrolled immigration and ALL the evil consequences
    suffered.

    A civilised society would NOT, definitely NOT entertain for more than two governance terms mass uncontrolled foreign /
    any paedophile actions, mass knifing, mass acid scarring,
    mass political sh!te.

    A civilised society would NOT, definitely NOT entertain the
    Dover illegal potential troop / rapist / knifing / acid tossers
    organised entrance to these Isles.

    Where does civilised / decent actions enter the equation
    when regarding the polling booth.

  17. Good morning all.
    Late on parade I’m afraid after being sat awake for a couple of hours of the small hours.

    After the withdrawal of the lawyers representing the Pennsylvania Secretary of State in voter fraud case, things are looking rather interesting.

    1. Good morning, Bob of Bonsall. Have you misread the situation? I thought that the firm of lawyers who stood down were actually representing President Trump. I sought clarification by Googling the matter but was referred to an article in The Guardian, that well-known purveyor of “biased” news.

    1. Politicians like to do things to get in the papers.
      Civil servants like to spend money as it’s their form of prestiege and success.

      That combination creates waste, inefficiency and chaos.

      As a consequence, the wasteful inefficient, chaotic mess causes lots of problems.

      Rinse, repeat, bloat.

  19. From the BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54908852
    “Bloody Sunday 1920: Croke Park killings remembered 100 years on”

    They barely mention that hundreds of IRA men in the early hours of that day attacked dozens and killed 14 British servicemen whilst asleep. Or that weapons were being passed to women and children in the crowd.

    1. Yes, there’s lots of publicity over how awful the British were in Ireland yet they never seem to mention that all the other side had to do was to stop killing people.

      Odd that.

  21. At last !

    The ”Daily Mail” exposes the lies and scaremongering of the shockingly dreadful and shameful Boris Johnson administration……………….

    ”What they DON’T tell you about Covid: Fewer beds taken up than last year, deaths a fraction of the grim forecasts, 95% of fatalities had underlying causes… and how the facts can be twisted to strike fear in our hearts.”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8971669/What-DONT-tell-Covid-facts-twisted-strike-fear-hearts.html

    All fabricated to be worse than it is so that the population will accept mass vaccination with the Bill Gates vaccine !

    1. So what is the purpose of this article, Polly? Further confusion for the masses? Or does it mark the beginning of the end for this government and its charade?

      1. That’s a good Q poppiesmum. At the moment government policy is set by people who have no ‘skin in the game’ as it were the chances are the lock up will end in early December then infections will fall as bit (as people won’t get tested over Christmas) but because more people get ill over winter another lock up will be demanded in January.

        Rinse, repeat. I think we’re still in for the long haul of spin (conflating all deaths as all *covid* deaths), lies (11 million deaths a day!) but it is useful to have some balance in the reporting.

        Over time, we can only hope this will increase and eventually people will ignore the scaremongering and get back to normal.

      2. Ross Clarke is a good journalist. He also writes for the Spekkie and the DT.
        The Mail group bear a heavy responsibility for our current state of repression; to say it is Janus faced is an insult to two faced people everywhere.
        Maybe their sales are dropping.

        1. Or maybe they are backpeddling on the Great Reset agenda because they now realise Trump is going to get four more years.

      3. “Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end.
        But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning.”

        Hi pps,
        Hope you are ok…..too early for sherry.

        1. Hi PT – keeping on keeping on…. hopefully it is truly popcorn time at last. A couple of days ago pp’dad knocked a full glass of sherry over our pale carpet – it went everywhere. However, I had a bottle of Vanish’s carpet stain remover in the cupboard. Amazing stuff. The stain started to disappear almost immediately. It wasn’t the pale sherry, it was the dark, Pedro Ximénez stuff which is perfect on a cold autumnal evening (but not so perfect on the carpet).

          KBO – as we must.

          1. Wiping the dishes this morning I found myself putting the sherry glass away in the cupboard…..Phew, close call………..not an alcoholic yet!
            Carpet stain remover noted.

          2. I didn’t know you could get “Vanish” in a bottle – we have an old cake of “Vanish” soap – dried up and mouse-chewed!

          3. This one comes in a spray bottle, bright pink, about £6.00. You can get it in supermarkets. ‘Vanish stain remover for carpets and upholstery’. Also very similar spray bottle ‘Vanish stain remover for fabric’ for items that go in the washing machine; this is most successful if accompanied by a scoop of Vanish powder (bright pink cylindrical tub) in the powder compartment of your washing machine. The Vanish for carpets etc is excellent, you cannot see one vestige of stain now, and it was a full glass of dark sticky sherry that was spilled.

          7. Gosh – just how did someone manage to film Pickles and Gus?

            They are doing precisely that as I write….

          8. Vanishing kitties are almost certainly up to kitty mischief 😺! I’m told that the plan for cats in St Barts will probably not now happen, as the new church wardens are not thrilled at the prospect of having to go in during the night because naturally exploring kitties have set off the alarms.

          11. Lovely picture. Yes, the canons at Barts probably kept cats. Medieval monastic communities typically did keep them both as pets and mousers, while in the wider population cats tended to be associated with witchcraft and held in suspicion. However, the canons lived in the priory full time and the building wasn’t wired up with alarms.

      4. I hope it means the end of the Conservative Party and the Labor Party, they are both in this together and have been destroying the UK for politician rewards, ie selling policy and legislation, since George Soros met with Tony Blair at the New York Plaza Hotel on April 20 1996, and quite possibly 1990.

        The whole story of the UK’s biggest ever political corruption scandal must be told to everyone !

        1. I am hoping the whole house of cards will come tumbling down but there will be much underpinning and shoring up of walls before it finally gives. I always remember the fate of the Ceaucescus when I am feeling low. Of course, Johnson and Hancock’s get-out-of-jail card will be ‘we were following the science’. Whitty and Vallance seem to have been distancing themselves over the last few days – there is a sense that something is ‘Going On’.

          1. Vallance, as his former colleague Mike Yeadon has pointed out many times, knows that he’s lying.

        2. I doubt that will ever happen! What is likely is an internal shift of power within the Cons. Problem is, everyone good from my (Boris, Gove, Hunt, Coffey, Rees-Mogg etc) generation has been seen off already.

          1. Boris, Gove and Hunt are not ”good”.

            Check out Mr Redwood’s diary today.

            He published a significant post from…. Me !

            Maybe the ”internal shift of power” is shifting.

            I said…………

            ”There is only one way to achieve your aims as outlined in your topic today.

            That is to tell the whole and true story, without any cover ups, of what happened in UK politics since 1990, and particularly since 1997.

            Everything needs to come out. Every last detail, no matter how embarrassing to the Conservative and Labor Parties.

            Only full disclosure will cleanse the past and enable a new beginning.

            Everyone in the UK has the right to know.

            Polly ”

          2. I said the good ones have been edged out! Leaving the dregs, or the scum that rises to the top if you prefer!

          4. Poor Mr R hears from me several times a day… and when he deletes my posts as usually happens, I post it again… and again… and again.. and again etc, and he keeps on deleting them. It’s turned into a little game!

            He has a very sharp way with other people when they get things wrong… and my take is that because I don’t receive a rebuke, it means I’m right.

            That’s why I repeat the posts, his reaction tells me a story. I don’t think he knew Tony Blair was cozying up to George Soros in New York in 1996. I think that has provided him with answers to a lot of mysteries.

          5. We all have to keep digging away where we can, in our own individual ways. We must never give up. Blood, sweat and tears. We will get there. Good for you and your determination. KBO.

    2. However! While this article is closer to presenting the facts of the case, it doesn’t – rightly – say the virus is irrelevant.

    1. This fellow should be in prison, I think.
      https://c19study.com/ – comparative collation of therapies.
      Interesting point there: an unusual reference to the ineffectiveness of HCQ. The vast majority show it decreases fatality of hospitalised cases dramatically.
      So I went to the source of this study – Hamad Foundation of Qatar. I see on their site that their partners are American University of Beirut and on their site I see significant funding from B&MG@tes Foundation.
      I really would like a proper exposé of Hancock’s interests in this.

  23. Unbelieveable that the multi-signatory letter from all those ‘charities’ about children missing out on ggod grades think that just lowering pass marks and waving them through is better than them actually GETTING a good education and sitting exams.

    You have to wonder how many of these ‘charities’ are either funded by the same millionaires and billionaires/firms who are profiteering from COVID and/or lockdowns (as well as advocating for them to further improve their financial position and destroy SME rivals) and government (taxpayers money),both of which are rapidly grabbing more and more power over us with nary a whimper from the public.

    All they seem to want is a generation of young people who are forever dependent upon and beholden to big authoritarian government and near monopoly multinational corporations who control almost every aspects of their lives without question. Borg drones indeed.

  25. ‘Morning, Peeps.

    SIR – Broadcasters use the terms “loved ones”. How do they know the status of these “ones”? Am I alone in thinking that this subjective phrase should have no place in news reports? What’s wrong with “friends and relations”?

    Andrew Blake
    Marlborough, Wiltshire

    What indeed, Andrew Blake? You are spot on, Sir! Given the old saying that “You can choose your friends but not your family” I have long since groaned every time I hear the ‘loved ones’ phrase trotted out.

    2. I agree, Mr Blake, (how’s George, by the way?)

      One of my many hatreds is: “Passing” for DIED. Grrr

      2. Good morning, Bill. I have a similar problem: when people say “We’ve lost Mathilda” I am very tempted to ask “Have you looked in the fridge?”

        1. And “The Prime Minister led the tributes…” As if the PM’s tributes trump the tributes of those who actually knew the deceased personally.

      1. My favourite is EW’s first novel : Decline and Fall which is compulsory reading for anybody who plans to teach in a boarding school.

        Some very telling quotations from it:

        “I expect you’ll be becoming a schoolmaster, Sir. Most of the young gentlemen what get sent down for indecent behaviour become schoolmasters.”

        “We schoolmasters must temper discretion with deceit”

        “I have been consistently unfortunate in my efforts at festivity. And yet I look forward to each new fiasco with the utmost relish.”

        “….. any one who has been to an English public school will always feel comparatively at home in prison. It is the people brought up in the gay intimacy of the slums, Paul learned, who find prison so soul destroying.”

        “The next four weeks of solitary confinement were among the happiest of Paul’s life.”

        That’s the public school spirit all over,” said Captain Grimes,” they’ll kick you out but they’ll never let you down.”

        I cannot recommend this novel it strongly enough.

        (To my delight Decline and Fall came up as a set book in the English AO syllabus one year and I had a fantastically jolly and intelligent top set of boys in my class and so we had tremendous fun studying it. As Joe Gargery said in Great Expectations: “What larks!”

      2. My favourite is EW’s first novel : Decline and Fall which is compulsory reading for anybody who plans to teach in a boarding school.

        Some very telling quotations from it:

        “I expect you’ll be becoming a schoolmaster, Sir. Most of the young gentlemen what get sent down for indecent behaviour become schoolmasters.”

        “We schoolmasters must temper discretion with deceit”

        “I have been consistently unfortunate in my efforts at festivity. And yet I look forward to each new fiasco with the utmost relish.”

        “….. any one who has been to an English public school will always feel comparatively at home in prison. It is the people brought up in the gay intimacy of the slums, Paul learned, who find prison so soul destroying.”

        “The next four weeks of solitary confinement were among the happiest of Paul’s life.”

        That’s the public school spirit all over,” said Captain Grimes,” they’ll kick you out but they’ll never let you down.”

        I cannot recommend this novel strongly enough. Anyone who has not read it must do so and those who have read it should read it again!

        (To my delight Decline and Fall came up as a set book in the English AO syllabus one year and I had a fantastically jolly and intelligent top set of boys in my class and so we had tremendous fun studying it. As Joe Gargery said in Great Expectations: “What larks!”

          1. The ‘Sword of Honour’ trilogy is funny, you will never view WWII in the same light again.

    4. Edit – Morning Huge (Where are my manners?)

      I was just poised, finger above the paste button, to post that letter, but my comment was to ask what Mr B was getting his knickers in a twist about.

      1. ‘Morning, D-cup.

        Most times when I switch on a YouTube channel I am greeted by some gormless youngster, mainly American, who will invariably greet watchers by uttering a vacuous, “Hey, wassup, guys?” followed by an ad nauseam rejoinder of “you guys” every twenty seconds throughout the video!

        Are my knickers in a twist?

  26. ‘Morning again.

    The DT Leader today. A bit of a puff-piece if you ask me, but I suppose they need all the help they can get with the BBC extracting every last ounce of outrage from the Priti Useless bullying story:

    It’s almost difficult to remember how messy things were for Boris Johnson this time last week. Dominic Cummings and Lee Cain were out; No10 was in turmoil. This newspaper argued that a reset was needed, and that’s what has happened: in fact, we’ve seen one of the most positive weeks for the Johnson premiership since lockdown began. In just a few days, the Government has announced an ambitious new green agenda and a historic investment in defence. The Prime Minister can’t take credit for progress in the Oxford vaccine trials, but they do offer hope for the New Year. And although Priti Patel has been through the wringer following a report into bullying, she was right not to resign and Mr Johnson was correct to stand by her. The near unanimity of the parliamentary party reflects confidence in Ms Patel, a tough minister in a difficult job – and in the PM’s judgement. The Conservatives are starting to look like a team again.

    As Camilla Tominey reports today, leadership and structure matter. Downing Street has witnessed a power shift away from the Cabinet Office, which was beefed up by Mr Cummings, and back towards the Prime Minister’s team, now steered by Lord Udny-Lister as interim chief of staff. The Prime Minister apparently was “better briefed” than ever in a zoom call with northern MPs on Monday, which probably confirmed suspicions among backbenchers that the concentration of power among the former Vote Leave staffers came at the expense even of the PM’s own independence of action.

    The projects unveiled in the last week are in the kind of policy areas a government should be addressing at this stage – and they reflect Mr Johnson’s instincts. He is an environmentalist at heart; he believes in innovation; he wants the entire country to benefit from the coming technological revolution; and, like the vast majority of Tories, he appreciates the value of a strong defence, recalibrated for the 21st century. The Treasury – another winner from the shift in political power – has also not denied a sensibly conservative intent to balance, in part, the massive rise in public spending with a pay freeze for public sector workers. Unions have mooted industrial action in response; the reality is that many workers got a pay rise over the summer, and the Government has to do now what the private sector has already done. It must cut its coat according to its cloth.

    The last thing the country needs is higher taxes. Mr Johnson, who ran for Tory leader promising to reduce them, will hopefully commit himself to holding the line, at least. Savings must be found instead within Government itself, and with the right political leadership this can be turned into an opportunity for reform, even empowerment. A new report by the Centre for Social Justice (CSJ) points out that the real heroes of the pandemic were parents and community groups who stepped in where the had state failed, and that a strategic withdrawal of government responsibility, replaced by local action, can work wonders. The CSJ gives the example of the so-called Wigan Deal, whereby Wigan Council actually saved £115 million via spending cuts, letting go around a fifth of its workforce, while improving social and economic outcomes. Life expectancy increased by seven years in the most deprived areas.

    The two immediate tasks facing the Government are to hammer out a Brexit deal and lead Britain through the pandemic. Negotiations might have stalled on Brexit due to a positive Covid test among the EU delegation, but we are starting to see the white smoke of an agreement. As for the virus, the promise of a relative liberalisation over the Christmas period is welcome and the planned vaccine roll out is, again, promising. We all appreciate that this kind of logistical challenge requires some sacrifice and patience, that it must be difficult to reconcile the PM’s abiding philosophy of liberty with what some pandemic measures necessarily entail. But what citizens really value from governments is clarity – and being trusted to do the right thing. Give the public the facts and a wider scope for personal responsibility, then let them get on with it. That’s been the general, very welcome spirit of the last week, of a Government getting on with things, and the individual citizen would appreciate the freedom to do more of the same.

    A leading BTL comment:

    Peter Hodge
    21 Nov 2020 7:41AM
    You have to laugh, you really do. Boris announcement has put the fear of God into everyone struggling to make ends meet with his green agenda; why?Because we know that we’ll have to pay for it. Okay, Boris has announced increased funding for the military; that’ll appease some for a few minutes.

    But honestly, I and others I talk to every day, have never felt so disconnected – so exasperated at the ineptitude of our government’s handling of the pandemic. And the amount of our money they have wasted on track and trace; for most of us, it doesn’t work.And let’s not get started on the PPE and care homes debacle. So, no Mr Telegraph, we don’t believe the government has a team worth calling a government.Not yet anyway.

    And now I’m locked down in a small town, that see’s its small shops closing, livelihoods lost and the high street increasingly looking like the wrong-end of a city.

    There is one common factor in our government that all this mess surrounds – Boris

    1. God where does one start….

      “In just a few days, the Government has announced an ambitious new green agenda”

      Charles Moore covers this pretty well except he didn’t say wind isn’t suitable for baseload and needs fossil fuel backup. He also didn’t mention energy storage which even with the best vanadium flow batteries of our time simply isn’t good enough to store the necessary amounts of energy to relieve the fossil fuel dependence. It’s pure fantasy that in ten years we’ll be ready to ban the sale of new fossil fuel cars. I know Boris is thinking about hydrogen but in reality nearly all commercial hydrogen comes from methane, a fossil fuel gas. Service stations can’t deliver it well either. They can’t keep the system pressured properly after as little as 5 to 10 customers. Electrolysis of water is a complete non-starter as you have to put in more electricity than you get out.

      ” she was right not to resign and Mr Johnson was correct to stand by her.”

      I simply strongly disagree. She’s yet another useless Home Secretary.

      “The Conservatives are starting to look like a team again.”

      Sorry the Tories haven’t been a team since the days of Thatcher and it’s arguable they even were then with at least two notable camps forming, the Thatcherites and the Tarzan followers.

      “He is an environmentalist at heart”

      Really? Even Boris hasn’t decided what Boris believes until the polls on public opinion come in.

      “he believes in innovation; he wants the entire country to benefit from the coming technological revolution”

      Flat out impossible. Automation is likely to put 25-50% of us out of work and it’s unlikely to turn coffee servers into AI experts.

      “has also not denied a sensibly conservative intent to balance, in part, the massive rise in public spending with a pay freeze for public sector workers”

      Another terrible idea. Virtually everyone working in the public sector is 25% worse off today than in 2010 and now he wants to freeze their wages again. Oh sure doctors and nurses will get rises, but porters won’t, even though they have been more on covid front lines than many doctors or nurses. You can’t take money away from an economy running somewhere around one third of normal speed, it’s like siphoning the fuel from a car and expecting to be able to drive from London to Glasgow on fumes. Sensible? Written by a blithering idiot more like it.

      ” It must cut its coat according to its cloth.”

      OK now tell us TRUTHFULLY how big the cloth is!

      ” Savings must be found instead within Government itself, and with the right political leadership this can be turned into an opportunity for reform, even empowerment.”

      Heard it all before, was crap then it’s crap now.

      “The two immediate tasks facing the Government are to hammer out a Brexit deal and lead Britain through the pandemic.”

      Neither are being done. We will either extend the transition period or leave without a deal and I have no confidence in Boris keeping that promise. Leadership lately has been appalling. Cameron was a terrible leader but of the three Tory PMs since 2010 he was easily the best.

      ” but we are starting to see the white smoke of an agreement.”

      Bow Locks! I think you are watching repeats of the pope being chosen by the cardinals or maybe watching Angels and Demons.

      Yep you’re right, entirely a puff piece and large full of Bow Locks.

      1. ” Another terrible idea. Virtually everyone working in the public sector
        is 25% worse off today than in 2010 and now he wants to freeze their
        wages again.”

        Tough. The rest of us have to earn our rises. The public sector is paid from taxation. If there are no businesses to pay for the public sector then not only should there be no pay rises but also a serious look a signfiicant redundancies.

        Bluntly, the private sector is the engine and driver. Suggesting the public sector is hte fuel is comical in it’s hubris. The public is the 8 mile caravan of luggage it’s forced to drag behind it.

        1. ” The public sector is paid from taxation. ”

          No it isn’t. It just appears to be. It’s paid by direct money creation.

          Both sectors have a place. Your ideology doesn’t let you see that, it blinds you. You are like a typical Tory, one that would balance the budget no matter what pain that caused. There’s no evidence at all that suggests a balanced budget is the right ideology and quite a bit of evidence that says it’s bloody stupid.

  27. A DT article by Jill Kirby. When is one person’s strong leadership another person’s bullying? I’m for the former, although her inability to make so much as a dent in the constant stream of illegal immigrants may well be her downfall…

    Ten days ago the women in No 10 were credited with persuading Boris Johnson that his Government must become less confrontational. In ousting a couple of male advisers who rarely minced their words, it was suggested that Downing Street would begin to show a gentler, more feminine side. But the Prime Minister’s robust defence of Priti Patel in the face of Civil Service criticism shows that standing up for women in politics does not always mean dialling down the conflict.

    Rather than using gentle persuasion, the Home Secretary has at times (by her own admission) allowed her impatience to show, as she tries to put in place the policies on which this Government was elected. A Cabinet Office investigation into Ms Patel’s conduct has concluded that she breached the ministerial code by failing to treat her civil servants with “consideration and respect” – but also that she had legitimate reasons for not feeling supported by a service that lacked flexibility in responding to her requests.

    In backing the Home Secretary, Boris Johnson has made it clear that he will support ministers when they run up against the Civil Service. It’s fair to say that senior figures on Whitehall are hardly overjoyed.

    Yesterday, the Prime Minister’s ethics advisor, Sir Alex Allan, resigned over the matter. He followed Sir Philip Rutnam, former permanent secretary at the Home Office, who when he “resigned” last February issued a public denunciation of Ms Patel’s conduct, claiming that she was wont to shout at officials and make “unreasonable demands” of them. It’s not hard to infer that Ms Patel’s determination to, for example, deport foreign criminals or halt the flow of illegal migrants, clashed with the cautious pragmatism of her civil servants. Her efforts to get a grip on her department clearly ruffled some establishment feathers and she wouldn’t be the first minister to have been the target of maneouverings by disgruntled officials.

    A touch of Sir Humphrey-esque condescension might also have been apparent to the Home Secretary, whose own background, as the daughter of Ugandan Asian immigrants, is rather different from the average senior Whitehall mandarin. Like another woman in politics who was prepared to challenge the status quo, Ms Patel is a shopkeeper’s daughter whose path up the political ladder hasn’t always been greeted with delight by the old boys’ network. In common with her hero Margaret Thatcher, the Home Secretary asks awkward questions and when told by civil servants that something can’t be done is apt to say “why not?”

    Overseeing a police force so weighed down by a “woke” agenda that they seem unable to catch criminals, and having her attempts to deport convicted offenders continually thwarted, it is hardly surprising if the Home Secretary sometimes allows her frustration to surface. That just shows she is more interested in the public’s priorities than Whitehall opinion.

    Boris Johnson would be justified in believing that Priti Patel’s willingness to row against the establishment tide is exactly what he needs in a Home Secretary.

    1. Far too many years with a stick insect in charge left the Home Office Mandarins convinced that they could do as they pleased.

        1. I have long held the view that doing just that and appointing the second in command, but without a salary increase, would drastically cut costs throughout the civil service (and may other organisations) whilst having zero impact or probably even improved perforamnce. There will be exceptions, but they will be few and far between.

    2. If she succeeded in completely halting the armada of illegal immigrants crossing the channel by Christmas her political future would be secure.

      1. One has to wonder why that hasn’t happened.

        France is clearly in violation of international law. Where are those vaunted bastions of internationalism? Or, more likely are they now aimed squarely at ‘evil Britain’ for rejecting their idiocy?

    3. It’s the political ‘why not’ against the adinistrative ‘we don’t want to’. It’s tiresome.

      It’s precisely that kicking that the state needs. It has become used to getting what it wants, when it wants and how it wants it. Then the annoyance of democracy got in the way and their whole careful apathy fell off the rails. I don’t think it’s quite got used to being told to serve. But then, the civil service doesn’t, really, does it? It’s main customer is itself. Top jobs go to the right school tie and the old boy network. People who say and do the right thing but achieve nothing.

    4. Sir Poutalot’s feelings were hurt.
      He was expected to do the job for which he was overpaid.
      p.s. the current Flouncer Outer is a disgrace to the name of Allan.

  29. A man visited an Optician for his annual eye test. The Optician asked him to lean forward & place his chin against the Phoropter & asked him what he could see.
    “I see empty Airports and empty Football Grounds” he says. “I see closed Theatres , closed Pubs, closed Restaurants”
    “That’s perfect”, said the Optician. “You’ve 2020 vision

    1. Ludicrous. If this ‘cruelty’ were true, one might as well ban everything involving the use of horses e.g. carriage rides (the Queen will have to travel by car when opening Parliament) and riding – no more hacking or even race meetings. Some people have no brains.

    2. That was in most of the papers at the end of August and was given the treatment it deserved then.

    3. Bob – -can I use your knowledge for a bit of help please. I assume it is FlightRadar24 you use on the screengrabs you have posted before. When it says in the info that one suscription can be used on a laptop, phone or tablet, do those 3 all have to be on the same email address? What if they are not? The site doesn’t seem to answer that.
      Any help greatly appreciated.

      1. Heyup!
        I’ve no idea I’m afraid as I’m only a casual user myself, but I would not be surprised if that is the case.

      2. I have a basic subscription for Flightradar24 which I access on my Windows laptop and via an app on my Android phone and tablet. My account login uses my main email address (I have another two) but I’m not sure you could use two email addresses.

  32. I got a letter from Dr Nikita Kanani Medical Director for Primary Care NHS England and NHS Improvement
    I am being urged to save the money spent on this letter urging me to get the flu vaccination. My surgery must have snitched that I have declined the vaccine.
    “Small things can make a huge difference to the NHS, especially when it comes to saving money. [how I laughed]
    “Sending printed letters by post to patients easily costs 100s of million pounds a year – worse still the environment pays a very high price too!”
    Reduce CO2 emissions by 1189.4 tonnes. “Simply Switching to digital communications will help reduce this expense – so we all win”
    “Switching to digital is simple”
    QR code
    Use the Camera app on your smartphone and hold over this QR code [ a square like a crowded crossword puzzle]
    This opens a secure Patients Communications Hub that’s unique to you , where you can select your preferred communications format by following the simple instructions.
    Thank you for helping us.”
    I don’t have a smart phone and unlikely to get one in the future.

    1. I received 2 identical letters this week, despite me having a flu jab booked a month ago for today.

    2. I got exactly the same. Rang my surgery, and after what seemed like ages of Covid messages and “options” a human answered. Gave them my birthdate, name and first line of address – – said “I don’t want any jabs” . .OK she said – and I put the phone down.

    3. What about the cost to us of the NHS treating thousands of newly arrived, not contributed a penny ( and won’t want to ) every one of them needing a “free” translator, replacements? While the freeloader lot take up multiple appointment times with translation need – – that means there is less time for us to even access the NHS that WE have to pay for.

      1. I too had one, as did the MR. By the same post, I received a letter from the Norwich & Norfolk Hospital reporting the clinic I had last Sunday. Fair enough. A similar one was also sent by post to the GPs.

        I have asked time and again for stuff to be sent to me by e-mail. “Not possible; data protection; patient confidentiality…” Yawn. They are all complete wazzocks – led by that wanqueuer extraordinare Halfcock.

          1. Not to me. Despite being given our mobile number, they phone – when they phone – on the landline…..

      2. I’d very much like the Home Secretary to be attempting to pass a law that all immigrants, if they do not speak English, have to pay for their own interpreter.

        Some hope!

        1. Next you will be wanting law courts to make defendants pay for their own translators.

          I can see some allowance for new refugees (real ones) receiving language assistance but after say a year, you should be told to use English for any government service. As you say, some hope.

          2. Luckily I am on blood pressure medication, I can always pop another pill.

            Over here in Canada they keep going on about immigration is the key to growing our economy, then do the same kind of thing. I wonder how much an immigrant who cannot speak one of our working languages adds into the economy. Oops can’t say that, racist.

            If you move here, adapt to our ways.

          3. ” If you move here, adapt to our ways “. – – Agreed – -but I see the situation as they come with their well practised line “We come for a better Life “. But then don’t want to change from exactly what they had back home. If living there was SOOOO bad – why recreate it in the new country??? My very firm belief is that they want what has been built. A full infrastructure, built and paid for by the culture they hate – – so will invade the country to exterminate the people and culture that built it – then it will be their’s. Here in the UK they have whined and moaned to get what they want. Which only leads to yet more “wants” – any NO answers get cries of racism and “It is our culture”. Any further actions that they don’t like gets a terrorist attack, just to show their TRUE intention.
            The mother of the Manchester Arena bomber at the Ariana Grande concert ( killing adults and little children alike ) was getting over £2000 a month in benefits https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-51446214- after having contributed NOTHING since arriving many years earlier.

            This is their version of “Gratitude”. Along with all their Grooming gang mass rapes of young girls / Cash for crash scams and County lines drug gangs they have set up. Driving offences are rife – licences, Car safety tests and anything else is not bothered about. They are destroying the UK – while blaming us.

          4. I can only agree with you. The fact that some refugees fly back “home ” for holidays just shows how little they want to assimilate.

            Even for us emigrating to Canada had pitfalls and we already spoke English. That doesn’t mean that immigrants should not make the effort.

            We have a local refugee family from Syria, in the past two years they have learnt English and they now run a quite successful business selling middle Eastern food to local restaurants and supermarkets. Integration can be done.

          5. The point is, Walter that, if you don’t like the way we run things, don’t try to change it, just Foxtrot Oscar back to whatever shïthole you came from.

    4. My copy of the same NHS letter arrived this afternoon. Ripped up and straight in the recycle bag. (No WiFi or phone signal problems here but if the NHS seriously want to save money, I could offer a few suggestions.)

      1. Not sure if we got one or if OH put it straight in the recycling. We had one from the council which went in there before I saw it. What a waste of money these things are.

      2. There were two pages. The second was only printed on one side – so goes into the printer. The other had half the back page unprinted – so was cut into small strips fr messages, lists etc… Waste not, want not!

        1. You’re a man after my own heart, Bill. Any blank pieces of paper or plain envelopes are used for messages, shopping lists, reminders and the like.

    5. Me too Clyde. And what really annoys me is that it says “to save the NHS” somewhere amongst the guff. I am sick of the constant propaganda.

    6. Perhaps Dr Kanani could ensure that mobile ‘phone coverage is adequate in this part of the country.

      Many Sussex citizens would be delighted with that striking improvement to their lives

      1. Janet, I am relieved that it is not adequate where we live! Saves all sorts of bother and annoyances. When at home we rely totally on our landline.

        2. My new (new in June) phone only works in one part of our house. It won’t pick up the wifi in here (sitting room). I can’t use Facebook any more on my laptop as the latest change to their format makes it crash and everything else freezes. So I had to go and sit downstairs to use the desktop PC (with my coat on as it’s cold down there) to do the updates you saw earlier. The joys of modern life!

          1. If your phone can connect to your phone company signal (eg. EE), then you can still surf the web and do all the other things that you can do on wifi. It will probably be a bit slow and could be expensive depending on what package you have with your phone company. For Facebook on your laptop, have you tried a different browser (Chrome, Edge, Safari etc)?

          2. Oh – I can buy mobile data but I don’t bother unless I’m going somewhere. I used to use Chrome but as the laptop operating system is now out of date, gradually things have stopped working due to the constant updates website bring in.

          3. My 15-year old Dell laptop is still on Windows XP and I haven’t had any problems with web sites if I use Internet Explorer. Is you laptop a Mac?

          4. No – the old Mac died and my son loaded this one with Linux in 2013. It’s very much like XP which I used to use at work.

          5. It sounds as though your wifi isn’t reaching all parts of your house – there are a number of potential solutions to this problem so don’t think that you are stuck with it. Some solutions are very cheap (a wifi extender will cost around £40) whilst other can be a bit pricey (a so-called mesh system). It’s worth doing some investigating because the best solution will probably depend on things like, what devices do you want to connect to the internet, what the construction and layout of your house is, and so on.

          12. Moi? Cycled four miles this arvo after spending an hour clearing the dahlias an covering the corms with leafmould.

          15. If you google on this, you will get plenty of items and my recollection is that the consensus is that this is a waste of time.

          17. We were forced by BT to have their router last February as they had switched us to fibre (not to the house). I spent ages on the phone to my son in Basel, (our help desk) getting it set up. Later I noticed we now had two networks – Home and home. So I think he could probably sort it out for us, but I doubt if he’ll be coming this Christmas.

            Home (with a capital H) works iin the bedroom and downstairs, and home (with a small h) works in the kitchen and sitting room. Our house is fairly spread out. We do have a couple of boosters. So he could probably sort it quite easily but I haven’t yet asked him.

          18. gee how big is your house. I can pick up a signal from our neighbours house and that is well over 100 yards away.

          19. My neighbour & I use each other’s router when there is a problem with the BB – I have BT, he has Virgin.

            A son had dead spots in his larger home – he bought repeaters and solved the problem or rather thought he had.
            A granddaughter was still in a dead zone and running up data charges on her mobile – she was connecting to the router rather than the repeater – doh!!

          20. We need a repeater to get a connection to the generator, apparently three walls and two cars is too much for the little waves to pass through. Nothing but problems with it, always going out of sync and needing a swift reset.

          22. oh yes their wifi system is password protected but I can still detect a fairly strong signal.

            Back when I was still working and stayed in a small apartment, I was too cheap to pay for internet. In those days, security wax not on peoples minds so it wax normally possible to find a nice open connection. I wouldn’t even try that trick nowadays for fear of connection to a compromised signal.

          23. I have just checked this laptop – I am receiving 12 wi-fi signals. all secured. The one that concerns me is the one marked “Hidden Network”

          24. my router allows me to hide the name of the network so an outsider cannot connect. Go on, give it a try – you have nothing to lose but your data and your liberty.

          25. I’m getting good signals – But I don’t think it goes as far as you. – -and NO I am NOT trying it.

          26. Our neighbours’ signals are pretty weak compared with our own – which isn’t brilliant as I’ve already said. But the houses are all detached and stone-built with thick walls, so that probably accounts for some of it.

          27. you would have thought that back in the good old days, they would have known how to design for wifi.

          29. Ours generally says it’s 54mb/s but sometimes it drops right down. As I explained to Enri – the problem at the moment is more the patchiness in different parts of the house.

          30. I think that your son would probably be able to sort it out. It is always a difficult task to advise someone remotely. Mind you, there are hundreds of thousands of Indian gentlemen who can fix your problem if you give them access to your computer!

          31. No thanks! He could probably still do it remotely, but I don’t like to bother him too much. It’s not life or death – just a bit annoying.

          32. Even cheaper – get a bit of card, e.g. a birthday card and shape it into a curve. Cover in tin foil and place behind the router.

          33. Not as easy as ‘they’ like to make out! We can just about get a phone signal in the further front (cold) bedroom of the two front bedrooms.

    7. It is a sick joke, frankly, clydesider; MOH got one about a week after having had the jab! I, who haven’t had the jab, haven’t had one – not that I want one.

    8. I’ve only got a £10 burner and even then I’m leaving it at home more & more when I go out.

      1. I haven’t been going out much so I’ve been leaving it at home as well. I’m not downloading any QR codes or tracking devices on my phone. Tough titties if I’m within a few feet of some disease vector.

        1. The fact that your phone is switched on is enough for them to track where it is. Some are even trackable when the phone is switched off.

          1. Well – it’s at home. The Track and Trace app only works if it’s downloaded and it’s not on my phone.

          2. not sure that is completely true, my new phone came preloaded with some tracking gubbins, it is only the user interaction bit that had to be downloaded.

          3. I don’t think they’d “perfected ” our T&T back at the end of May when I bought this one. Even now they’re only picking up up about 50% of contacts for a cost of £12 B.

          4. Didn’t the UK decided to go it alone, the Canadian experts admitted defeat and just bought an existing package.

            I have no idea what percentage of contacts our system detects. It is only supposed to exchange info after fifteen minutes of close proximity to another phone and you don’t get to see how many contacts are stored.

            Home, gym, curling club, supermarket. If anyone wants to track my movements, feel free.

          7. If you have a contract – they know. If you put credit on it by credit/debit card they know. If you buy the vouchers from the supermarket to add credit to your balance they know.

          8. Sorry, Walter, I don’t think they do, not yet anyway. The technology to link phone location to billing is not there yet, unless the phone is being specifically monitored under warrant by the intelligence services.

          9. A few years ago, I chose to leave my phone logged into Google on one trip down south then examined the location information that it kept.

            Only then did my wife acknowledge that maybe perhaps, she shopped too much. This wasn’t from phone data, it was just based on every wifi service that the phone had detected.

    1. Sad for the crew, Belle, I’ve never liked trawlers bottom dredging, as it’s bad for the seabed. It only needs to get snagged in nasty seas and these accidents do happen. Still some hope for the missing men, but very unlikely.

      1. Sadly scallops don’t like to swim midwater like fish. I’ve never tried them but after watching Ramsey cook up several hundred i wouldn’t mind trying one sometime.

  35. About to watch the rugby. All players about 6 feet apart how’s that going to work out in a scrum?

    Ridiculous.

    1. England players taking the knee for a dead drug dealing gangster???
      They are dead to me…………….off it goes

          2. Is there no one who can inform the RFU that the BLM gang of hoodlums is out to destroy capitalism – the sort of capitalism that the, er, RFU depends on for its survival?

          3. I suppose the choice of ‘taking the knee’ must have been left to individual players. The RFU should just put a stop to it now and ban it completely – it just looks stupid, especially when the other team is refusing to join in the charade.

          5. That’s a bit harsh on Maori Morris dancing. Mind you, sticking your tongue out in the presence of an un-Civil Serpent can get you thrown out of your job. It’s that serious.

          6. From the Grauniad 27 October 2020: “Sources from Black Lives Matter’s UK affiliate – now officially registered as a community benefit society under the name Black Liberation Movement UK – denied involvement [in an application to be a political party]. Speaking on behalf of the group, Lemara Francis said: “BLM is proud to be a political organisation, but has no plans to set up a political party”. If players are bending the knee specifically in support of the BLM UK Movement, then surely they are in breach of their own sport’s ruling body which I assume prohibits overt displays of support to a political cause. However, I have little doubt that the players and those behind them will claim that bending the knee shows support for a social, non-political cause.

      2. The Irish didn’t go down on one knee – I think I’ll have to use the fact that I have two Irish grandparents and hope that Ireland win this match instead of England.

    1. Thanks for the laugh. Anything like this, if it causes damage to the police vehicle, the repair cost should be paid by the motorcyclist, as well as the fine.

    4. Let’s knock whitey off his bike and then beat the crap out of him – all in the line of duty, you understand.

      No wonder there’s no respect for the Police Farce.

  39. AREA LOCKDOWN PROTOCOL

    LIVERPOOL – burgling homes in your local area is still permitted providing you sanitise before and after the offence. Track and trace technology must also be used.

    BIRMINGHAM – you can only visit your dealer when collecting your children from school. The dealer should wear a face visor and make sure all bags are sanitised.

    CORNWALL – Vigilante groups of no more than six allowed outdoors and socially distancing between the hours of 10 p.m. – 2 a.m. only. You must wear suitable PPE for any physical contact.

    SURREY – prostitute services are still permitted to remain open, this is now classed as essential services for fear of the economic collapse of the county. Entry from the rear only

    BRISTOL – Now declared a NO GO ZONE, if you must travel to this area please follow all diversions, traffic cones and signals, remain in your car, do not abandon your car, masks are not required as nothing is open.

    ESSEX – you are able to fight your neighbour providing you wear a mask and social distancing rules are adhered to.

    NORFOLK – having sex with your sister is still permitted but you must be home before 10 p.m. and use approved lubricant.

    SUFFOLK – everyone must remain at home and self isolate until manufacturers can distribute gloves with 6 fingers. Please do not go to A&E for digit removal as they are a tad busy.

    Stick to these guidelines and we’ll get through it together.

  42. Off topic.

    The rugby authorities should look at the criteria for how caps are awarded and differentiate between short-time substitues and those who have played a significant time.

    This afternoon an England player came on as a subsitute for the last 30 seconds of the game and will be capped; it’s absolutely ridiculous. At the very most there should be a cap for being in the initial 15 and then only a full cap awarded if the player is on for at least half the game.

          2. Don’t… I miss that place so much.

            This is the first year since 1970 that I have not swum in either the Atlantic or the Med. Terrible. And it looks as though our plan to go there in January over my 80th will be a non-starter, because of the ludicrous rules both sides of the Channel.

          3. If you set out now, won’t you clear quarantine by new year?

            You need the US Canada setup. We cannot drive over the border but if you fly down to the States, no problems.

          4. You could tell the British that you’re heading for Dignitas.

            Then tell the French that you’re going to an Eid celebration or some such.

            And when you get back to the UK, tell tham that you went to Lourdes as the last chance saloon, a miracle happened and you changed your mind.

            You’ll need a good kitty-sitter.

          5. We’ve been wondering about MB’s (February); it would be nice to book a good bash with friends and family; we have a favourite restaurant that we’ve used for such gatherings before. We will have to see nearer the time.
            The irony that you and MB were born when Britain was desperately defending our freedom hasn’t escaped me.

      1. And his twin brother, and uncle and cousins as far as I could tell.

        Perhaps they have dual nationality.

        Some of the haircuts on display were very strange.

          1. If Gareth Thomas and his friends are to be included it must be WHBAGs – Wives, Husbands Boys and Girlfriends.

    3. Some sports over here are even worse, if you are on the team you get the recognition.

      I have always wanted to be fifth man on a championship curling team, no need to play and you get good seats in the stadium.

      1. That would be how I would approach it.

        I just feel that a player who has played 5 games for the full 80 minutes who ends up ranking way below a perennial substitute who might have played 15 games, but only for the last 20 minutes, in the caps records is totally wrong.

  43. I was thinking that if only that anti bullying ministerial code of conduct was around when Gordon Brown was a minister, we might still have our gold reserves

    1. Look at the way that that sale was handled: it was pre-announced, which on the face of it was stupid. But not so daft if the object of the exercise was to bring down the price of gold, thus saving the shirts of very important institutions which had sold the metal short. One can only wonder what the quid pro quo was for this kindly act.

      1. The way the sale was handled was certainly poor. Was the idea to sell the gold sound though. Probably.

    2. What use is gold?

      It costs an absolute fortune to store and insure.

      You can’t eat it. You can make pretty things out of it or use it as an electrical conductor par excellence or make crowns for teeth with it.

      Ooh we need a few tonnes of that desperately!!!

    2. PP made the mistake of thinking the HO snivel serpents were there to work.
      Worse still, she expected them to work for the good of Great Britain.

      2. John Reid got his retaliation in first back in 2006, as he stepped into the Home Secretary role as Blair’s go-to ‘troubleshooter, when he stated that the HO was ‘not fit for purpose’.

        I have no time for Mr Reid but he was fully aware of the stubbornness he would face from the CS.

      2. It all tastes like fizzy vinegar to me.

        Cask-conditioned ale and single malt Scotch are all a man needs.

        2. Would you toast the bride and groom with Ale?

          Silly me. Course you would. What i’ve come to expect from Northerners. No taste or style. 🙂

          1. Oi! Listen up, shandy-drinker! Oop Norf we toast with water, milk, tea, coffee, cocoa, ale, still wine, whisky, cognac, rum, tequila or gin. We don’t toast with girly drinks like lager, vodka, pop or fizzy vinegar. Capiche?

          2. The only time i drank lager was round the Pool tables in my youth. Snakebite.

            Other than that i enjoy cocktails. Including Champagne cocktails. Kir for example.

            And then Chablis grand cru. Sangiovese or Barollo for red.

            Beer drinkers can end up with a big gut which is why they need to be picky about their food. 🙂

  47. That’s me for the day. Chum coming round very soon for a drink. I don’t know whether that is allowed or not – but I don’t give a stuff, anyway.

    Will look in tomorrow – which is expected to be much colder- but sunny. We’ll see.

    A demain.

    2. Disqus usually puts a poster into
      the spam folder until a Mod. has
      added him/her/it to the approved
      list. If the content of your ‘spam’
      posting is an example of your
      posting perhaps you shouldn’t
      bother, the majority of posters on
      this Site are English speakers.

      1. Hold on here, please.
        His response was to the thread about Russians drinking hand gel.
        I thought it was appropriate, certainly a lot more appropriate than most of the multilingual stuff we get here.
        When he explained what it was, I replied “Santé” a French equivalent.

        1. His original post which went,
          automatically, to the spam folder
          was a line of cyrillic writing;
          I was waiting for a further comment
          when he was approved.

          1. Your reply seemed a little harsh to me, given the thread.

            I agree re long pieces in foreign languages, but we’ve had many short ones in other scripts before and as far as I’ve been aware they sail through, perhaps it was because OB appears to be new here.

      2. I do not make many posts although I have posted before in this forum so I understand that I could be mistaken for a newcomer. However, if the warmth of your welcome is typical of the welcome that a newcomer can expect, then perhaps you’re right – I shouldn’t bother.

        My apologies for disturbing your cosy little club.

        1. You are welcome here, OB. I thought I’d seen you here some time ago. All the mods use their own discretion – there is not really any particular rule to follow apart from personal attacks – which, although not allowed, do sometimes happen. So polite discourse is welcome.

        2. I think you will find that most newcomers are welcomed gladly.

          As an irregular you may not have realised that the foreign languages aspect is a bit of a sore point on here at the moment.

          1. OK sosraboc. I read the comments in this forum on occasion and I have seen many languages spoken here so I didn’t know it was a sensitive matter.

            Maybe because my post was in Russian, they think I work for Uncle Volodya ?

          4. That was a pretty foul, but very catchy song. But somehow, I’m not certain what the day is today, I remember the words.

        3. Disqus did not recognise you, a year or so ago they made some changes which
          involved anyone [including the regular
          posters] having to be approved; I had seen your first post and not recognising your avatar I left it in spam since we do,
          on occasion, receive some very odd
          posts.
          I apologise to you for doubting your
          integrity and would wish to welcome
          you here.

    3. Possibly it was done by accident or conceivably Disqus did it automatically. Is whatever you wrote remotely like an advertisement that might get caught by a filter?

    2. 326670+ up ticks,
      Evening HJ,
      “looks good” as it is meant to, combatants
      for / against PP ALL in-house, click, ratchet up another day of Dover illegal intakes.

      1. I reckon PP has been obstructed by our civil servants at the Home Office.

        The proof was when some obstructive civil servant joker placed a boatload of illegal immigrants in a hotel in her own constituency of Witham.

        1. Oddly enough, I thought that it was a good idea, although the wrong target in this case.

          If I was the one allocating places to store them, I would always choose those places where people in Government or constituencies with “I welcome refugees” MPs and twice as many for people like Yvette Hypocrite and Cur Keef Slammer.

          1. Gary Lineker’s garden would have been a better idea. Yvette Hypocrite’s constituency is Pontefract from memory. They used to have a Castle but I am not sure whether it is still there. We could feed the illegals Pontefract Cakes. Cur Slammer lives in Islington I presume.

          2. I’ve seen nothing so far in Gary Lineker’s plan to host a refugee or two in his luxury house. If he has one move in in the next few weeks I hope he”ll realise that “A Refugee is for life – not just for Christmas”.

        2. 326670+ up ticks,
          Evening C,
          In my book this name rustling tory lookalike group will only use a nearly honest Mp short term as a front for some connivance, otherwise they ALL have covert treachery diploma’s
          as the entrance key to the cabinet.

  51. 326670+ up ticks,
    She was “maggied” happened here in the UK decades ago only with fatal consequences for the nation, it triggered the political treachery squad gaining power & support via the polling booth, the odious results we are living through currently.
    breitbart,
    France: Woman Stabbed in the Back in ‘Random’ Attack

          1. Just had a small glass of my own home-made Swedish snaps (Paul will know what this is).

            I bought a 50ml bottle of Danish 60% alcohol ( a type of eau-de vie) and I steeped half a jar of caraway seeds in it for a month. After I’d drained the liquor from the seeds I added a small amount of sugar syrup. A few weeks later I double filtered it thought coffee filters. It has a smell reminiscent of Nurse Harvey’s Mixture (gripe water for babies), a wonderful, slightly aniseedy, palate and a kick like a mule.

          4. The most potent schnapps I was fool enough to drink was Topinambur taken in the Black Forest village of Wellendingen.

            Our host said it was a cure for everything (I had a cold and a sore neck from sneezing) and that if you had a sprain you just rub it into the affected area. It was distilled from ground artichokes.

          5. Topinambur is Jerusalem artichoke.- and it’s not from Jerusalem and it is not a type of artichoke.

            English botanist John Goodyer on Jerusalem artichokes quoted in John Gerard’s Herbal, 1621:

            “Which way soever they be dressed and eaten, they stir and cause a filthy loathsome stinking wind within the body, thereby causing the belly to be pained and tormented, and are a meat more fit for swine than men”.

          6. Thank you for posting. Pretty foul to drink too unless you believe in its supposed curative properties. They do a red version of Topinambur as well as the clear.

          7. Agreed, but I think they are delicious.
            But then again, I’m a bit of a swine as most regulars will appreciate.

          9. Ground artichokes?

            Not being silly here (for a change) was that ground up above ground flowers, or below ground Jerusalem artichokes?
            If the latter, all diseases would have been forced out through your trousers.

            Jerusalem artichokes are to baked beans and mushy peas what an atomic bomb is to a peashooter..

            Jerusalem artichokes could give a hurricane wind.

          12. I’m mates with a retired RN Commander who’s always trying to give away a crop of J artichokes. Amazing chap, he can, and often does, put away 2 bottles of red in an hour and a half on a Saturday Telegraph cross/pubquiz/word session at the pub.

          13. They are superb vegetables.

            Knobbly as all get out when one starts the cultivation but keep choosing the smoothest and planting back in roughly the same ground and eventually they produce tubers very similar to potatoes.

            I grew them in the same patch for years. Better each year, and I never had a problem with diseases or pests.

            I suppose that no sensible creatures on the planet would willingly eat them.

            Apart from me!

            They also make excellent soup.

          15. I’ve never had a really strong German schnapps. I can’t remember the brand name, but I used to buy a selection of different flavours from The Whisky Shop at the top of the steep hill in Lincoln. They had the standard variety as well as apple, peach and a few others. The apple, in particular, always went down well.

            Of course, I used to buy a number of decent single malt whiskies from that shop also.

          16. The last time I visited Lincoln to survey a building lower down Steep Hill I noticed that the Whisky Shop was still there and selling a wide range of gins.

            The Jew’s House nearby has been a restaurant since the early seventies and dates from 1150, probably the oldest house in England if not Europe. The mediaeval quarter of Lincoln retains a collection of very interesting buildings.

          17. If a chateau counts as a house, I would have bought one we saw near Beaune. It was there at least 100 years before William sailed for Hastings and Battle.

            It was wonderful. It had its own chapel, dungeons, a small barracks, secret passages, some open, some still to be cleared. It even had its own ghost. It was big, but not vast, only 8 bedrooms!
            When we looked around the bats flew down the passages as we passed by.

            HG was totally unimpressed.

            {:-((

            So I never fulfilled my dream.

          18. I love the Steep Hill area of Lincoln, especially the Jew’s House, Brown’s pie shop and the various tea emporia. My favourite (and one of my favourite pub/restaurants anywhere) is the Wig & Mitre, which actually moved location to next door about 20 years ago. Wonderful food and one of the best pints of Samuel Smith’s (both Museum Ale and Old Brewery Bitter) that I’ve ever enjoyed.

          19. I spent four night in Lincoln while working nearby and stayed by the cathedral. The Wig and Mitre was a nightly must for me. And a few Sam Smiths.

          21. I’ve probably already suffered it, Tom. Last year I bought a tray of ten or twelve different varieties of Snaps in small bottles: most of which were undrinkable. I’ve had the wormwood-flavoured pseudo-absinthe and it is vile.

            The best snaps I’ve so far tried is another home-made variety that my friend, Bertil, makes. He steeps the flower heads of St John’s Wort in vodka. It is very tasty.

        4. We have moved on to the rioja now, Plum. It is the only way now, to… to…. we have to do whatever it takes to survive. And not go under.

    1. The only disease we know coronaviruses to cause are the common cold, MERS and SARS. Why would you expect there to be a coronavirus expert?

      1. Because when a coronavirus is the threat we are facing, they should not over-estimate their own abilities to understand it and respond appropriately, instead they should recruit such an expert swiftly! Dunning-Kruger strikes again.

        1. Why would we have people studying something known only to cause the common cold in the uk?

          Coronaviruses largely don’t affect humans.

          4. His bio says he’s an RSV expert and mentions two of the four coronaviruses that cause common colds usually in children.
            Again, what insights would that give him about a totally new virus that attacks the body in different ways, he’s in the same place as everyone else, it’s a new virus with a route of attack that shares nothing in common with the viruses he’s actually studied.
            He clearly says we’ve largely ignored CoV until the SARS outbreak 17 years ago and even since then we haven’t put a lot of research into CoV. We found 2 more CoV that cause the common cold.
            We really haven’t taken this group of viruses seriously in the past. Now we are but PhDs take 4-7 years.

          6. Err yes i did. He’s only worked with 2 of the 4 coronaviruses known to cause the common cold and investigated a link between one of those and kawasaki disease.

            Again this is a new virus. It doesn’t attack the body in the same way as the common cold CoV. We are all blind. We’ve learned a lot in a year but we have had virologists working on it from all over the globe, and it seems we’ve even made a vaccine against it with several others to follow shortly after although the safety testing of these has skipped a few stages.

            The only virus this is anything alike to is the first SARS virus of 2003 which hasn’t caused any new cases since and is considered eradicated. It only affected a few thousand people and killed about 10% of them.

          10. I’m not paid to do that. That’s a rather facile style of internet arguing anyway. How many of the world’s top universities do we have, and you’re saying we don’t have a single virologist who knows anything about coronaviruses? Please.

          11. Let alone the fact that we can supposedly produce a vaccine in six months that might protect against it without having people who know about the virus? Ha bluddy ha.

            I am absolutely certain that had the government/civil service looked, they could have found several well qualified people to consult, certainly people a damned sight more useful than Ferguson.

          12. What is Ferguson’s secret, he is so unprofessional yet he still keeps getting work from the government? He must know where the bodies are buried!

          13. I think it is more to do with laziness on the part of the civil servants who put such committees together.

            “Who did we ask last time?”
            “XY and Z”
            “OK, give them a call”

          16. Probably not a great deal and what would previous knowledge of different coronaviruses mean for a new novel coronavirus.
            May there’s someone studying veterinary medicine but then they wouldn’t know much about humans. These viruses mostly affect animals. We’ve found 4 that cause the common cold, are harmless and attack our body in different ways to SARS-Coronavirus-2.
            AFAIK the only people putting any real study into coronaviruses and zoonotic transmission were the Chinese. I can’t find any PhD papers from the UK on coronaviruses. As the article i linked sos says, we found 4 coronaviruses that cause colds, them we stuck them to one side and ignored them, we had real work to do.
            I cant find any coronavirus expert in the UK. And besides this one is completely new.
            We’re looking into this one but it’ll be 4 years before any PhD’s are published, maybe longer. Not much help now.

          20. Your link would appear to me to support my stance a lot better than yours.

            And as to:
            “We are seeking knowledge for the sake of seeking knowledge with no economic purpose? Since when did we do that?”

            And just what do you think all those hundreds of thousands, if not millions of academics working in all those universities around the world do every day?

            Get real.

          21. Most PhDs these days in science subjects are targeted and paid for by the private sector, but you knew that i’m sure. My daughter is currently looking for one in Pharmacology.

          22. What would an expert on the four coronaviruses that cause common colds be able to tell us about a coronavirus he or she had never even seen before?
            There are plenty of virologists available to SAGE.
            How do you even expect there to be an expert on a new virus that attacks the body in a different way to previous coronaviruses and causes a whole new syndrome rather than the common cold.
            Some people expect too much. Knowledge takes time to acquire and disseminate. The real experts in this are all Chinese and we wouldn’t have trusted them anyway because well they are commies!

          24. Common cold is an upper RTI. This covid virus goes straight to the lungs and binds with an enzyme in the lungs. Totally different to the way the coronaviruses attack the upper respiratory tract. It’s like asking someone that paints panels for a living to service your car. Yeah they work on cars but…

          25. That again is not a good analogy. It’s more like asking someone who repairs one type of car for advice on repairing a differnt type. They understand cars in general.

            We are told that British researchers have produced a viable vaccine in well under a year.

            Are you seriously trying to tell us that none of the people who did that could have been valuable contributors to SAGE?

      1. Although ruffians on the field of play the Irish players do seem to be more intelligent than our lot. Brian O’Driscoll was an accomplished speaker after a game.

        1. Belle, I don’t like L Fox’s “Men vs. Cowards” jibe. There are no physical cowards on that pitch. I’d prefer to think that they’re in some sort of ‘follow the herd’ MSM bubble or something. They certainly ain’t Nottlers.

          1. Maybe they’re thinking financial repercussions, and if so, that’s bad, but if you’ve a family with kids…

    7. Nicked for Ar5ebook, thanks, Mags. I took the opportunity to let them know that they’ve lost my support.

  57. 326670+up ticks,
    Two experts in the killing & morality fields, b liar, cut in overseas aid could cost peoples their lives, number one
    ( lab) wretch is totally unbelievable.

    Number two wretch cameron ( tory) saying the cut is morally wrong has the front to mention promises/ morals, etc.

    His approach to animal husbandry was a sight to behold as he approached the head of a pig on a platter with his organ in hand.

    Ps I really don’t know what it is with these current tory’s & dick’s, we have digit dick Mp, dick head, top copper ?

    https://twitter.com/GerardBattenUK/status/1330120800268148737

    1. I was listening to Cherie Blair on the car radio yesterday .. Her husband doesn’t do things in doors , not very helpful with housework or practical things .

      I think he should stop meddling with politics , and learn to bake bread and a few cakes.

      1. 326670 + up ticks,
        Afternoon TB,
        I totally agree with one amendment that is, it takes place in the prison bakery over a long period of time.

  60. I held some interviews yesterday.
    I find it hard to hide my irritation when, in answering a ‘put at ease’ question such as ‘Tell us about yourself’ so many women tell me about every one but.
    e.g. I’m married with two children. My husband is a builder. My daughter is twelve likes horseriding and my son is eight and he likes playing football. And so on and so on.

    Males don’t do this.

    1. Sadly, for many women, that is still their view of life. They are incapable of seeing themselves as anything other than an adjunct to others. The second class citizen/martyr syndrome is half alive and permanently not well.

      1. Some women can be modest, but with a will of steel, women want to be liked , and generally hate their own sex promoting themselves too much. Another reason why women usually hate women bosses .

        Will make an exception though , reminds me of old nursing sisters and Matrons and genuinely good efficient bossy organised women .

        1. The best boss and worst bosses I’ve had were women. Male bosses have never made much of an impression, mainly because they’ve never been to there to help when I’ve needed them.

    2. What do males say?

      I have been part of the interviewing team selecting prospective candidates for a parliamentary seat. Sifted down to six, my oh my the things i have heard!

      1. Males tend to talk about previous jobs and why they want a change, which is what I’d expect.

    4. I think the first answer you quote is perfectly reasonable, I would answer similarly.

      Then I would move on to other topics.

      BUT. Reading between the lines, your “put at ease” question is nothing of the kind, you’re already making judgements about the individual where they may be stalling using the opportunity to assess why you asked the question.

    5. My least favourite question which used to come up a lot in interviews and appraisals at work is, “Where do you see yourself in ten years time”? Always struck me as lazy and clichéd. No one dares ask it now because the answer is, “Outta here and drawing my pension”.

      1. I went to an interview for a job at Westminster Council Architect’s Department. The panel interviewing me had little interest in my portfolio. They seemed bemused that I, the top student according to my professors, would seek to work in a local authority. Local authorities attract dross as I found subsequently.

        There was a Human Resources woman council officer on the panel. She probably down-ticked me when I had no questions for her. I realised that they gave free lunches and fabulous pensions but did not reckon on staying in any job for more than five years in those days.

        Needless to say I was not offered a contract of employment.

      3. I once had (at Britisg Gas): “Would you prefer to be a seagull or a tractor driver?”
        Where do you go with that one?

        2. Seagull- like politicians they can shít on whomsoever they please and there are rarely any repercussions.

        3. About fifty years ago my eldest brother applied for a job with the post office. He asked me to help him complete the application.

          One thing that remains in my mind was the image of several bicycles which were drawn incorrectly, pedal cogged wheel smaller than rear drive wheel and other silly mistakes. In short the questions were an early version of tick boxing and incredibly stupid, designed to attract idiots.

          1. In the early seventies I went for a job with Post Office Telephones, just as they were morphing into BT.
            All the candidates were shepherded into a small room with no seats and told to wait. On the wall was a button labelled “press for attention”. After half an hour or so of nothing happening one guy got fed up and said “f*ck this for a game of soldiers” and pressed the button. Immediately a woman leapt into the room and demanded “who pressed the button?”
            He got the job. It was a simple initiative test.

    6. They do actually. I went to interview where I waxed lyrical about my accomplished wife and how I had supported her when she became a Principal of a Further Education college at 24.

      I didn’t get the job and she divorced me.

    7. Maybe it’s because that is a big part of a lot of women’s lives. I still think that with men their work is their priority and family comes second. I don’t mean to be unkind about men. I just feel that for the majority of men their work is who they are. Most have spent their younger years working their way up in their job. I know that women do that too but then along come children and their focus changes. Or that’s how it used to be.

    8. ‘Tell us about yourself’ is not a put at ease question. It immediately leads the interviewee to wonder what aspect of themselves they should be talking about. Their criminal record? Their financial problems? Their drinking habits? What?
      Maybe, probably, none of those things but the interviewee needs time to think about where to start, so retreating to a neutral area (my husband is a builder) is fairly understandable.
      So, tell me, what is your idea of a ‘put at ease’ question? It’s 19.47. Take your time.

          2. Suppose it falls immediately into the ‘drinking habits’ category but, what the hell, who am I to judge? Get your coat.

    9. Perhaps it has something to do with the inability of some women to actually answer the question at all? Example – we were shopping this afternoon, and I asked SWMBO whether we needed sliced meat. She launched into an explanation of something, at the end of which I asked “Does that mean yes or no?”
      I’ve done a lot of interviewing over the years, and never asked that question. Instead, I ask them about their CV – why that job, what was best/worst about it, what did they learn from it, and see where the discussion goes from there.

    3. I have collected stamps since I was a small boy. Other countries manage to produce stunning designs for postage stamps. Have we really sunk so low as a country that this rubbish is now acceptable.

      Yes, I realise it is not designed to be collectible but even so…..

      1. In my view, Christmas stamps have been of very poor quality for a while; I blame letting children design them.

        1. I used to collect stamps, but I was an aircraft spotter – we didn’t have a railway station, but we had an airfield not too far away 🙂

          1. We lived under the flight path to a US air base. We could tell by teh engine sound when something new was coming in, and rushed out to see it!

        2. Me too. I regularly receive letters and cards from a relative in Canada. He deliberately covers the envelopes with different Canadian stamps to feed my habit. The Canadian stamps are fabulous.

          I have my old Ian Allen books in a trunk in the attic. The modern classrooms added to the City of Bath Technical School overlooked the GWR at Oldfield Park Halt and we were often distracted by passing locomotives.

          Back then we also had the Somerset and Dorset line which is now a linear park but the tunnel of which is now lighted as a bicycle and walking route. The trains ran from Green Park station which us now a Sainsbury’s car park. Trains from there to Bristol arrived in the older Stephenson designed sheds at Bristol Temple Meads.

          1. I keep my old Ian Allan ABC Combined Edition 1962, next to my computer desk. I frequently pull it out whenever there is a steam loco shown on a film or photographed in the paper.

          2. I phone my elder brother Miles who still lives in Bath. He was obsessed with steam locomotives as a boy and though six years older than me retains a fantastic memory and knowledge whereas my other interests have led to a loss of a lot of memory of the boyhood stuff.

            When he moved into his sheltered housing I sent him a copy of a painting by Shepherd of a scene where a steam locomotive (which became Black Prince) is being fuelled and with a diesel locomotive in the foreground.

            Edited: Black Prince. The other locomotive was Green Knight.

          3. I think you mean Black Prince! I love the 9Fs. We had 92212 on the Watercress Line until recently, when her boiler ticket expired. She is much missed.

          4. I corrected my post and you are entirely correct. The 9Fs were great locomotives. Of course they were designed for hauling immensely long goods trains but surprised others when hauling passengers.

      3. I sold my stamp collection.

        I collected El Salvador, Honduras and Nicaragua stamps. Possibly had one of the best collections in the country at the point I sold it. Took 30000 quid.

      1. Ah, the great Viv Stanshall. Do you remember Rawlinson’s End and Old Scrotum the Wrinkled Retainer?

    5. Wel at least it pertains to Christianity, instead of a child’s drawing of Father Christmas or a picture of a robin perching on a snowman

    1. The Police are becoming worse thugs than they were in the seventies and before. This is nothing new. When policing political demonstrations they would target the chap with a red jumper.

      The Police were politicised by one Blair under the directions of another Blair.

      They find a vulnerable target and go for it. Meanwhile on direction from the pervert Dick of the Yard they take the knee to black thugs and beat up and arrest white folk protesting legitimately.

      The Police Service should be ‘defunded’ and a new disciplined Police Force be recruited and put in its place.

      1. “The Police are becoming worse thugs than they were in the seventies and before.”

        That’s a sweeping statement, Corim. I was police in the 1970s and I was certainly no thug, as those I served will happily attest. The colleagues I worked alongside, with distinction, were also public servants who served with honour. There are bad apples in every barrel but none of those contaminated me: in fact we took great delight in weeding out those odd miscreants at ground level in the same manner that the armed services do.

        1. 326706+ up ticks,
          G,
          Times have changed when regarding issues such as rotherham, and of late I would say the punching is the proof of the pudding.

          1. Read my comment again; this time with your glasses on. At no stage was I discussing contemporary policing, of which I know nothing about.

          2. 326706+ up ticks,
            G,
            I repeat, times have changed and so have the guardians of the law as witnessed by police criminal neglect in rotherham & the raising / falling fist.

  68. I hope that supremely arrogant surgeon chappie gets roasted in today’s Comments (here and on the Letters Page) and in subsequent letters. It seems to me that his training didn’t give him any common sense or the ability the reason/question.

    You don’t need to be academically trained, including in science or medicine to see the dangers of rushing a vaccine through without proper R&D and especially testing over several years to determine whether there are any (and particularly significant) side effects that don’t occur in the days and weeks after the vaccine is administered, of if it is a yearly jab, multiple times (cumulative effects).

    IMHO, the man doesn’t deserve to be in his post.

    1. The bottom line is that it is a question of trust. I no longer have any trust in government, nhs, other government agencies. As I have said before on this blog, why would you trust a vaccine heralded and eagerly anticipated by government when that government has seeded residential and care homes with covid infected elderly from nhs wards and thus infected more elderly already resident in these homes; they have issued them with DNR notices to sign which they did not understand when their relatives and friends were barred from entry. The government-funded nhs has callously abandoned its chronically sick for months, and those with newly emerging worrying symptoms, to their fate. To put it into perspective, if a friend or acquaintenance behaved in this manner one most certainly would not accept a vaccine triumphantly offered (and especially one that has been rushed through and for which they are expecting a large number of side effects https://ted.europa.eu/udl?uri=TED%3ANOTICE%3A506291-2020%3ATEXT%3AEN%3AHTML ) why would people be willing to accept this from government?

      A request arrived this morning for me to take up the offer of the ‘flu jab. It went in the bin.

      1. One thing that the MSM and politicians can’t seem to grasp is that there is a HUGE difference between an anti-vaxxer and a person who is genuinely concerned about a rushed vaccine or one that provides little to no benefit. I recently got a tetanus booster jab following a slip and fall near my home – no problem with having a tried and tested vaccine like that.

        As regards the flu jab, I’m less enthusiatic – if memory serves, I’ve had the flu jab three, possibly four times since 2011 – I originally bcame entitled to a NHS jab for free as I’m an asthmatic, but it was rescinded about 2 years ago because my afflication isn’t ‘chronic’ (I use a blue ‘reliever’ inhailor instead of the daily brown ‘preventer’ one).

        I had my first jab in 2011 and then caught the flu in early 2012; then the same happened in 2013 when I had the flu so bad I was laid up off work for two full weeks. In 2015 I got viral tonsilitis for the first time (againm, within the year of the flu jab), which can be caused by the flu, and, as it turns out, by coronaviruses like the common cold variant. I’ve not had either since, but also not had any flu jab. I was also less than impressed by the ‘experts’ having to ‘guess’ which strain we’d get each year.

        I now don’t bother getting the jab, especially as I’d have to pay via a pharmacy. I’ve done my own research, considered to risks and will almost certainly NOT take the COVID vaccine for the time being. I will wait until any turn out to be proven safe after (say) 5 years of use and hopefully one which I don’t have to take yearly.

        Personally I suspect the following will happen:

        1. Voluntary uptake by the public will be far lower than required for any effectiveness (if it is sound), giving the powers-that-be (more the ‘expert’ civil servants than ministers) the excuse to make it mandatory or as much as (by telling travel firms, business owners and banks to refuse to do business with ‘refusenicks’), or;

        2. To green light some clandestine plan globally (possibly via the Chinese government) to release a second ‘mutated’ strain of the virus to scare the public into taking a vaccine after more gruelling months of lockdowns and the consequences on jobs and finances. Similarly they’ll get ‘rogue states’ (or what we are told are) to plant computer viruses in key computer systems so that life comes to a grinding halt with food and medine shortages, power cuts, etc etc. That’ll scare the masses into submission.

        All done at the behest of The World Economic Forum’s The Great Reset and Fourth Industrial Revolution plans.

        See Dave Cullens YT / BitChute channel for more on this (Computing Forever).

        1. They deliberately conflate the two, the anti-vaxxer and the genuinely concerned for their own nefarious purposes and agenda and to divide and rule. I find the rest of your post terrifying – I have thought about these aspects and I scare myself to death. Where is James Bond when he really needed? I will save the Cullen bitchute for future reference.

          I cannot understand why people cannot see what is going on – my antennae were alerted right from the start of this game, it and the reaction, just didn’t make sense and Ferguson’s claim that ice-rinks would be used as morgues was simply just laughable.

          I will not have the ‘flu jab – I have heard many similar stories and I am very susceptible to these sort of illnesses.

      2. One thing that the MSM and politicians can’t seem to grasp is that there is a HUGE difference between an anti-vaxxer and a person who is genuinely concerned about a rushed vaccine or one that provides little to no benefit. I recently got a tetanus booster jab following a slip and fall near my home – no problem with having a tried and tested vaccine like that.

        As regards the flu jab, I’m less enthusiatic – if memory serves, I’ve had the flu jab three, possibly four times since 2011 – I originally bcame entitled to a NHS jab for free as I’m an asthmatic, but it was rescinded about 2 years ago because my afflication isn’t ‘chronic’ (I use a blue ‘reliever’ inhailor instead of the daily brown ‘preventer’ one).

        I had my first jab in 2011 and then caught the flu in early 2012; then the same happened in 2013 when I had the flu so bad I was laid up off work for two full weeks. In 2015 I got viral tonsilitis for the first time (againm, within the year of the flu jab), which can be caused by the flu, and, as it turns out, by coronaviruses like the common cold variant. I’ve not had either since, but also not had any flu jab. I was also less than impressed by the ‘experts’ having to ‘guess’ which strain we’d get each year.

        I now don’t bother getting the jab, especially as I’d have to pay via a pharmacy. I’ve done my own research, considered to risks and will almost certainly NOT take the COVID vaccine for the time being. I will wait until any turn out to be proven safe after (say) 5 years of use and hopefully one which I don’t have to take yearly.

        Personally I suspect the following will happen:

        1. Voluntary uptake by the public will be far lower than required for any effectiveness (if it is sound), giving the powers-that-be (more the ‘expert’ civil servants than ministers) the excuse to make it mandatory or as much as (by telling travel firms, business owners and banks to refuse to do business with ‘refusenicks’), or;

        2. To green light some clandestine plan globally (possibly via the Chinese government) to release a second ‘mutated’ strain of the virus to scare the public into taking a vaccine after more gruelling months of lockdowns and the consequences on jobs and finances. Similarly they’ll get ‘rogue states’ (or what we are told are) to plant computer viruses in key computer systems so that life comes to a grinding halt with food and medine shortages, power cuts, etc etc. That’ll scare the masses into submission.

        All done at the behest of The World Economic Forum’s The Great Reset and Fourth Industrial Revolution plans.

        See Dave Cullens YT / BitChute channel for more on this (Computing Forever).

  69. “Covid-19: Strengthened tier system for England after lockdown”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55029401
    “A tougher three-tiered system of local restrictions will come into force in England when the lockdown ends on 2 December, Downing Street has said.
    Boris Johnson is expected to set out his plan – including details of how families can see different households at Christmas – to MPs on Monday.
    More areas are set to be placed into the higher tiers to keep the virus under control, No 10 said.”
    These people are daft beyond belief.

    1. Johnson needs to clue up fast. He has been fed a load of lies by SAGE and should recognise the fact sharpish and put the government motor into reverse ASAP.

      1. I forwarded the link to the Dr Mick Yeadon video to my MP yesterday requesting that he send it to all MPs. Won’t hold my breath but I continue to send clips as there seems to be sweet FA else I can do.

    2. let’s change from three tiers to four tiers to a colour coded system. Oh look we are doing something.

  70. DT Story

    Archbishop of Canterbury to take summer sabbatical for ‘spiritual renewal’ in 2021
    Between May and September, the Most Rev Justin Welby will take a break for study, reflection and prayer

    Will he be paid while he is on sabbatical?

    I took a sabbatical myself in 1984 – 85 to sail my 30 footer across the Atlantic and back. I funded this myself and received no salary – I hope the same rules will apply to him.

      1. Why would that be downvoted? Strange.

        Look on the brightside, he might find Christianity which based on comments here during the past few years is something he sadly lacks.

        1. Please do not go all pious on us.

          We are a Christian country. Some of us never attend church nowadays because the happy clappy brigades have adulterated the traditional services we enjoyed years ago when faith and worship was tangible and meant something in our lives.

        2. JSP downvotes Rastus all the time no matter what he posts. She used to make abusive posts to him but Ndovu always deletes those.

          1. Be fair Phizzee – it’s better to downvote than be abusive. JSP took herself off this forum for more than a year and has only been polite since her return.

        3. I think it is much more likely that Christianity is lacking on this forum and to be found in abundance at Lambeth Palace – or wherever else the Archbishop happens to be.

          Archbishops are not paid. They do not receive a salary. A stipend is provided to allow for a life of prayer which is exactly what the Archbishop does, and will be doing.

          Perpetual poke-nosing into the financial arrangements of others is no more admirable than poke-nosing into what goes on in their bedrooms. Both are the despicable behaviour of an ill-mannered boor. No decent person is so obsessed.

    2. He could come to stay at Clare Priory near me and I could arrange to give him a few lessons about the role of an Archbishop of Canterbury with reference to the former rector of our parish, Matthew Parker, who was chaplain to Queen Anne Boleyn and Archbishop of Canterbury to Queen Elizabeth I. I could then drown him in the Stour.

    3. My immediate response to that was to hope that he finds out about Christianity while he is on sabbatical. But he will probably be only away in order to attend more marxist indoctrination camps. He is the most appalling hypocrite.

  71. Evenin’ all. A great article from Janet Daley about how the government is treating us like children:

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/21/infantilising-population-covid-medieval-immoral/

    I have two young kids. They talk about what they are ‘allowed’ to do (Mummy said that we are allowed to stay up late/drink coke/eat chocolate/not do our homework). As an adult, I am used to being able to whatever I damn well please, as long as I don’t break any laws. If I want to max out my credit card and drink a bottle of whisky for breakfast (just examples you understand!) then it is only my judgement and common sense which prevents me. But now, all of our choices as adults have been taken away. We are only ‘allowed’ to do what Boris Johnson and Matt Hancock tell us we can do.

    This is making me very angry. I suspect that I am not the only one.

  72. Tyla Gopaul, 22, stabbed 26-year-old Zakaria Abukar Shariff Ali outside the Rolling Stock nightclub in Hackney, north London, in the early hours of November 24 2018. Jurors heard Gopaul had previous convictions in 2015 for having a large kitchen knife, a lock knife and a hunting knife in his possession. D Fail

    Just a couple of young Cockney lads falling out. Wot sit all abart, Alfi?

    2. Here, sung in a soft, sensual manner. The original by Charles Trenet is sung with passion. Both are worth listening to again and again.

    3. R.Nosgrove

      Good evening

      Sorry I reposted before seeing yours. As I said: What a pretty girl! What a smile! What a voice! What a jolly band!

    1. Next week I expect him to disband SAGE and sack Vallance and Whitty, stop the Track and Trace ‘world beating embarrassment’, and announce a public enquiry into the multiple failures of the PHE and NHS.

      “ I come before you today to announce that my government has been seriously misled by the experts at SAGE and the scientists at Imperial College London whose predictions can now be seen to be doom laden misinformation. Our economy is crippled as a result of our actions taken in good faith believing their pronouncements to have been genuine scientific advice. It is now clear to everyone that the advice we were given was seriously flawed and that acting on this advice has cost our country dear.

      I apologise sincerely for this error on our part. I have dismissed Matt Hancock whose advice to me was heavily swayed by an unhealthy association with Bill Gates and George Soros.

      I have asked the top clinical immunologists in our research laboratories to give evidence in the forthcoming public enquiry. I have on advice cancelled all contracts made by PHE for vaccines”.

        1. Yup. I know. The alternative is the nightmare being delivered by this wretched government of idiots and their self interested medicos who are presently counting their anticipated windfalls from their financial interests in pharmaceutical companies.

          1. My worst fear now is how we shall come out of this affair. Travel restriction based on vaccination is looking very likely.

          2. My worst fear now is how we shall come out of this affair. Travel restriction based on vaccination is looking very likely.

      2. vw and I were talking about this yesterday afternoon and saying the only way out for him is to come clean and get all the sh1t out in one go.

        Won’t happen but it’s a great thought.

  75. Someone sent me a link ‘smid.scot’ which purports to show an Index of Multiple Depravation throughout Scotland. To me it appears to be just another slant on ‘relative poverty’, i.e. no matter how many taxes are thrown into the ‘welfare’ maw, it will never be enough for some until we are all ‘equal’. Except for the ‘elites’ compiling the figures obviously.
    P.S. Good morning all. 🙂

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