Thursday 24 December: Tony Blair’s vaccine intervention is the last thing the country needs

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its comments facility (now reinstated, but not as good as ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/12/24/letterstony-blairs-vaccine-intervention-last-thing-country-needs/

1,037 thoughts on “Thursday 24 December: Tony Blair’s vaccine intervention is the last thing the country needs”

  1. That Pet Crocodile

    A Drover walks into an Outback bar with a pet crocodile by his side.
    He puts the crocodile up on the bar and turns to the astonished patrons.

    ‘I’ll make you a deal. I’ll open this crocodile’s mouth and place my manhood inside. Then the croc will close his mouth for one minute. Then he’ll open his mouth and I’ll remove my unit unscathed. In return for witnessing this spectacle, each of you will buy me a drink.’

    The crowd murmured their approval.

    The man stood up on the bar, dropped his trousers, and placed his Credentials and related parts in the crocodile’s open mouth. The croc closed his mouth as the crowd gasped. After a minute, the man grabbed a beer bottle and smacked the crocodile really, really hard on the top of its head

    The croc opened his mouth and the man removed his genitals unscathed as promised.

    The crowd cheered, and the first of his free drinks were delivered.

    The man stood up again and made another offer. ‘I’ll pay anyone $100 who’s willing to give it a try.’

    A hush fell over the crowd. After a while, a hand went up in the back of the bar.

    A blonde woman timidly spoke up, ‘I’ll try it – just don’t hit me so hard with the beer bottle!’

  3. If the EU agrees to the “deal” it will only be provisional and will be confirmed, or not , next year. We therefore won’t have a done deal. Is it wise for the UK to tie itself to a deal which the EU might change? Boris has given way on the Fishing rights and I am sure I heard on the BBC Radio 4 News that Northern Ireland will still be in the EU. The fact is that we won’t have a settled deal by 31 December 2020. This is a dangerous gamble by BJ. he has in effect lengthened the Transitional period in the EU’s favour.. He has broken promises and let us down once more. Shame on him.

    1. 327691+ up ticks,
      Morning C,
      Been on the cards since the 24/6/2016, three tier re-entry missile, the wretch cameron,mayday the intermediate stage, johnson the nose cone “any cling on deal a do” as a future latch lifter, on target.

      My belief is johnson can say echoing the past, ” job done , leave it to the tory’s” this is the outcome of doing just that on the 24/6/2016.

    2. ‘Morning, Clyde. I agree…and surely it is set out in statute that the whole ghastly relationship with the EUSSR is finally over at the close of play on the 31st December? (As will be his premiership with any luck.)

      1. Morning Hugh – Northern Ireland was not mentioned on subsequent BBC Radio 4 News other than the Irish were still haggling over some matters and that seed potatoes could not be sent to Northern Ireland from GB. We don’t know about our sovereignty nor any payments to the EU. There are 6000 pages in the “agreement” and Boris expects MPs to vote for it [on Boxing Day?] even though the EU has the right to delay full agreement until an indefinite time in 2021. There will be no Deal properly agreed on 31 December 2020. The BBC calling it “loose ends” which the EU governments have to sort out and no one expects the EU to alter the Provisional deal significantly. Pull the other one.

    3. If all of this is true then I am appalled. But so far, I am still awaiting any news on the Internet that confirms a “deal” at all. I shall comment when I see one.

      PS (8 minutes later): It appears that there is still some “fish wrangling” going on before Boris announces anything.

      1. Morning. I’ve not seen any of these links that you’re referring to at the top of the page, but would it be a good idea to ask people to stop posting links in their posts for a time until things calm down a bit?

        1. Hi Iffy, and good morning.
          We can set the site for “pre-moderation” if posts contain links.
          If it looks like this will be common, I’ll set pre-moderation for comments.

  6. SIR – Hearing Tony Blair on Radio 4 yesterday recommending that the over-80s are not given their second vaccinations made me hugely thankful that he is not prime minister anymore.

    Ian MacGregor
    London N7

    I, too, had the misfortune to hear the Grinning Chimp on Toady as we drove to daughter (for childcare) early yesterday. As it went off I put it rather stronger than Mr MacGregor, as I invited him to do something that, I’ll admit, is anatomically rather difficult to achieve…

  7. SIR – The Isle of Wight is to move from Tier 1 to Tier 3 on Boxing Day.

    What catastrophe has brought this about? In the last week there have been 127 positive Covid diagnoses, four hospital admissions and no deaths. So there is less than one case per thousand head of population.

    I and many of my colleagues have become aware of ministers’ lack of scientific understanding over the past nine months, but this lack of basic numeracy is staggering.

    As an aside, if the new strain is 70 per cent more infectious, the odds are that it is less virulent. That’s how infecting organisms work.

    Michael Wilkinson FRCS
    Seaview, Isle of Wight

    Handycock and his ignorant chums will go down in history as the true destroyers of our economy, and far more so than an infection that is little worse than an outbreak of winter ‘flu.

  8. Boris Johnson to address the nation as EU trade deal agreed. 24 December 2020.

    Boris Johnson will address the nation this morning after signing a free trade agreement with the EU.

    The Telegraph understands Mr Johnson will then address the nation to announce the news. His statement will be followed by a similar press conference in Brussels.

    Sources on both sides are claiming victory over the deal, which saw negotiators haggle through the night on individual species of fish and policy on electric cars.

    Yes a deal right at the last moment in the middle of a pandemic with the country locked down. What a coincidence!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/12/24/brexit-latest-news-trade-deal-boris-johnson-announce-eu-talks/

    2. 326569+up ticks,
      Morning AS,
      The peoples servants pressie to the nation, how thoughtful.

      In my book the semi re-entry nose cone has landed.

    3. ‘Morning, Minty.

      I see that the BBC, in its wisdom, has timed the 6 o’clock News for mid-afternoon.

    5. This is the sort of nonsense that’s why we left.

      Why is the Eu even bothering with electric cars? That means it is still forcing it’s environmental policy on us. If the EU is remotely happy then the deal is an awful one.

  9. ‘Morning again,

    And now to more serious matters:

    SIR – I have a passion for reading house names (Letters, December 23), though many are unimaginative, but my favourite is still the house whose driveway had a weeping willow on each side. It was called Hangovers.

    Linora Bennet
    Tunbridge Wells, Kent

    Well now, Linora, is there a ‘Gordon’ in your family, cos if there is I reckon he wrote this load of…

    1. Don’t do it, Bill! Don’t trade the two little rascals at the market for a handful of magic beans!

      :-))

    2. ‘Morning, Biull.

      Look on the bright side: It probably means fewer people to get in the way when you get there.

  11. Fire destroys migrant camp in Bosnia. 24 December 2020.

    Thick black smoke could be seen rising as residents, mainly from the Middle East, south Asia and north Africa, fled in panic. A UN official said the blaze was believed to have been started by migrants unhappy at the camp’s temporary closure.

    “As far as we know now, a group of former residents put three tents and containers on fire after most of the migrants had left the camp,” said Peter Van der Auweraert of the IOM. He said to his knowledge there were no casualties.

    This is just a replay of the Greek Island fires a few months ago and is intended to put pressure on the authorities. Whether it will work in Bosnia is a moot point but it will undoubtedly spread further. The UK is particularly vulnerable to blackmail since its leaders are already sympathetic.

    https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2020/dec/23/fire-destroys-migrant-camp-bosnia-lipa

      1. Yup. We reckon MB had to take at least 20 photos to get one that was usable. We were going through doggie treats like nobody’s business while trying to bribe the model. Thank goodness the vet who was unhappy with the monster’s waistline wasn’t in the room.

        1. You have my sympathy.

          Over the years I have taken a very large number of what I have learned to call “spot the spaniel” photographs – especially when trying to take pictures of spaniels at work. Some have an ear or the tip of a tail, the rest just show the undergrowth where the spaniel was… just before I pressed the shutter.

          The present one will sit very obligingly for a posed photo, as for my avatar, but she’s impossible to catch on the move – even now that she’s almost 12.

      1. Very sensible.
        Spartie is currently snuggled down and waiting for the Old Farts to stop slurping tea and playing on their ‘pooters.
        Then it’s time for his slimline breakfast – chiz, chiz.

        1. Mongo woke me at just before 6 to tell me he needed the loo. I took him for a walk then as well. Now he’s asleep, I’m going to wake *him* up.

          Bah, who am I kidding we’re both going to fall asleep in the chair.

  13. I hate to say it, but in my experience Liam Halligan is a financial journalist who usually gets it right:

    Lockdown money-printing sets us up for an even greater Covid collapse

    The Bank of England is inoculating No 10 from hard choices and making Corbynism mainstream

    LIAM HALLIGAN
    23 December 2020 • 9:30pm

    Where is all this money coming from?” asked the magnificent Maureen from Barnsley earlier in the year, when she was stopped by a television news reporter while out shopping. “How are we paying for all this?” The no-nonsense 83-year-old became an instant media sensation. As 2021 approaches, Maureen’s impromptu words remain one of the most important political interventions of the year.

    Since lockdown began in April, the state has borrowed no less than £285  billion, taking on debts, over eight months, around twice what we typically spend during an entire year on the NHS. UK government debt now totals well over £2 trillion (2, followed by 12 zeros) – bigger than annual GDP, a first in our post-war history.

    Lockdown costs the state billions a week, in support for furloughed workers and desperate firms. Our stymied economy, meanwhile, struggles to generate tax. That’s why, with restrictions set to last until Easter, we could end up borrowing £400 billion during the 2020/21 fiscal year alone – four times what we took on in the immediate aftermath of the 2009 financial crisis.

    After that meltdown, the Bank of England announced £50 billion of quantitative easing – a “temporary, emergency measure”, creating money out of thin air to ward off a banking collapse. But QE boosted share prices and, when used to buy government bonds, helped the state to borrow cheaply. Powerful City institutions and ministers liked that – so the programme continued, expanding eight-fold. By the end of 2019, QE had reached £425 billion, with the Bank of England owning around a third of the entire stock of government debt.

    Since lockdown, though, QE has gone into overdrive, surging another £450 billion. With no parliamentary debate and barely any press comment, our central bank has, throughout this pandemic, been buying government debt twice as fast as during the aftermath of the sub-prime collapse.

    By far the most dangerous and controversial economic policy of our lifetimes, post-Covid QE has exploded beyond anything previously envisaged. The historic precedents of what we are doing are clear and undeniable. And the lack of discussion and transparency surrounding this policy is utterly mad.

    Those who criticise QE are routinely dismissed as part of an “awkward squad” – and I should know. As so often in the middle of massive misjudgements, people who speak up are attacked personally, not for the substance of what they say. So, no matter that QE has made the asset-rich even richer while ultra-low interest rates have punished savers – and those living on meagre pensions. No matter that central bank bond-buying has kept capital locked up in over-indebted “zombie firms”, starving smaller, more dynamic businesses of cash.

    Who cares about international tensions, as countries try to “out-QE” each other, sparking “currency wars” for the first time since the Thirties? And so what if financial markets across the West have lost their ability to “correct”, with investors becoming more and more reckless amid sky-high valuations – setting us up for collapse?

    After all, lots of well-connected financial types, both pre- and post-Covid, are getting very wealthy off the back of QE, exacerbating the inequality driven by the lockdown itself. And when markets implode, currencies slump and interest rates spike, it’s the poor who suffer most.

    QE hasn’t led to inflation, its acolytes say. Such claims are either clueless or disingenuous. The first post-2009 wave of QE was an asset-swap. So the inflation was expressed in stock and bond prices, both deep into global bubble territory – and, to some extent, property valuations.

    Covid-era QE is different, with the Bank of England, to all intents and purposes, buying gilts directly from government – albeit using the secondary market to deny accusations of outright “banana republic” style money-printing. This new liquidity, hundreds of billions of pounds of it, is being sent directly, via government borrowing for furloughing, business grants and benefit payments, into the bank accounts of the broader population. That’s why the prices of gold, and other inflation hedges like Bitcoin, are soaring. Inflation will remain low, our central bank tells us. Yet assets that protect against inflation are now at record highs.

    The words “quantitative easing” didn’t appear in Rishi Sunak’s speech during last month’s spending review, or in any of the Treasury’s related documents. But the only reason the Chancellor could announce hundreds of billions of pounds of borrowing, to fund continued lockdown, was because so many of the gilts sold to investors were bought back by the Bank of England, using newly-created QE money.

    “Interest rates are low, stop worrying,” is now a common refrain among political insiders, including many in Downing Street. But investors are only accepting low rates because the government debt market is rigged. Can this continue? Will it all end in tears? Nobody knows and almost no-one wants to think about it.

    Yes, the Government is in a tough position. But so-called “QE-infinity”, just because “everyone else is doing it”, is emphatically wrong. With no practical spending limits, Corbynism becomes mainstream politics – posing huge political dangers in the future for a Conservative Party that wishes to return to fiscal sanity.

    The logical end point of what we’re doing is sky-high inflation, a run on the pound and broader financial turmoil – yet another systemic meltdown, the third in two decades, which could rock capitalism itself to the core. And, in the meantime, if we can “just print money”, and lockdown can be endlessly financed, the genuine trade-offs facing government will never come into focus, with lockdown lasting longer than it should.

    Once the elderly and most vulnerable are vaccinated, we should move towards a more age-stratified approach, limiting the economic and societal fallout by letting young and middle-aged adults return to work. Yet that won’t happen while QE-infinity is inoculating ministers from the really tough choices, allowing them to deny the massive economic damage represented by each and every day lockdown is allowed to continue.

    2. What we all want to know though is “Where should I put my hard earned savings?” given that gold is sky high, shares are over-valued and so is property.

      1. There have been various economists (usually in the States) who have produced long and turgid explanations of the “true” value of gold, and how they came to that judgement.

        The usual conclusion is between $3000- and $10,000- an ounce.

        Research it yourself.

        Only time will tell, but the thought occurs to us that if gold is over priced, why did Central banks buy over 1300 tons of it last year?

        1. My research (unpublished, not peer-reviewed) suggests that gold is overvalued by a factor of about four. Still and all, it may prove to be a less disastrous investment than anything else. Meanwhile, I;m off to buy my usual brace of Euromillions tickets.

          1. Whilst the Midas story suggests that not even gold can feed you if we’ve got rid of our farmers and arranged for the factory ships to clear out the seas, at least it’s solid. easily buried out of trouble or official interference, and been used as currency through upheavals far worse than Covid and Brexit.

            I don’t expect it to make much, if any, profit. For me, it is an insurance policy, and for that one pays a premium in return for a certain peace of mind.

          2. Exactly my sentiment: an insurance policy. And if you never need it, good so. That said, I would point out that silver has had a much more important role as currency than gold. I’ll buy those Euromillions tickets after I’ve listened to our illustrious PM. (What do you mean, “sarc”?)

          3. Silver attracts 20% VAT. On top of that, pleb investors must factor in a 10% profit premium that is not applied to finance insiders.

          4. Indeed so. But gold bugs have an overblown idea of the yellow metal’s importance down the years. Anyone for Bitcoin? (#MeNeither.)

    3. The national debt, including all the off book lark is well over 16trillion. We aren’t told this though.

    4. On a personal level, we are fast approaching 1947.
      Once again, I am standing in freezing cold queues to buy basic foodstuffs.
      Bring on the power cuts and I’ll be back in short socks again.

  14. The House of Lords is bloated. We need an inquiry into the peerages system. 24 December 2020.

    As I sit on the woolsack in the House of Lords for question time, scarcely a week goes by without a peer calling for an inquiry into one subject or another. An inquiry into the handling of the Covid-19 emergency; an inquiry into mental health; into prison conditions. Perhaps the time has come for us all to call for an inquiry into the appointments system that has brought us all to the red benches.

    We don’t need an inquiry, least of all by those who benefit from the subject in question. The House of Lords is a cess pit of corruption where the villains go to hide among the virtuous. The only solution is to shut it down!

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/23/house-of-lords-peerages-appointments

    1. Good morning, Minty

      The maximum number of peers must be greatly reduced and then rigorously adhered to. I would suggest 200 at the most and a limit imposed on the number of former MPs allowed to sit in the upper chamber – perhaps no more than 20.

      1. There are just as many liars and crooks coming from outside politics these days. We are going to have to move to an elected upper house – this ghastly cronying can’t carry on. Maybe with a longer term of election, but still not for life.

        Minimum age of 50, perhaps!

        1. ‘Morning, bb2, consider that an elected upper chamber is merely to repeat the folly we currently have in the lower chamber. I have expounded my beliefs early with regard to the Lords.

          2. One of Call-Me-Dave’s creations.
            (I see to my horror that we share a surname)

            “Michelle Georgina Mone, Baroness Mone of Mayfair, OBE (née Allan; born 8 October 1971 in Glasgow, Scotland) is a Scottish entrepreneur and parliamentarian.

            In 1996 she and her then-husband founded MJM International Ltd and the lingerie company Ultimo. She sold 100% of Ultimo in 2014.”

          4. Yet to my mind she is the sort of peer we want. She’s a tough business woman who’s earned her own money while having lived in a poor part of the UK.

            The peers we don’t want are the effluent outpourings of political patronage.

    2. I don’t agree, Minty, the Commons need a modifying and recommending chamber. However, it doesn’t need politically appointed troughers with their own agenda to oversee the Commons. The only people worthy of that job – and not influenced by elections – are the hereditaries who, because of their self-interest in their own estates, will take a long-term view of both the country’s needs and the efficacy of Common’s legislation.

      We also need to reinstate the Law Lords and quickly remove the politically motivated ‘Supreme Court’.

      Apart from all that, Good morning, Minty.

  15. Good morning, my friends

    Is this day going to go down in history as they day Britain was betrayed and the prime minister and his political party commit suicide?

    I have looked at most of the Brexit articles in the DT this morning paying especial attention to the BTL comments where it is impossible to find any comment which has any confidence in Boris Johnson or optimism at all. Indeed, it seems that the one achievement from this extremely bombastic, immoral, unprincipled charlatan is that so many people now can see him for what he is and have united against him. The sooner he and his hopeless government go the better.

    It is absurd to persist in one’s views when It is clear that one has been wrong. If I am wrong and Boris Johnson has not capitulated then I shall apologise and admit my error.

    1. Morning Richard. If you are correct the most egregious faults will be hidden; a view encouraged by Fishing and Electric Cars being the sticking points!

    2. Good morning Rastus, I have a generous helping of humble pie ready to swallow if I am proved to be wrong over Johnson and his Government’s farcical “negotiations”.
      I briefly considered it possible that he would indeed deliver what he promised but the pie has stayed in the “freezer” so to speak, and there I think it will stay.
      You and I are more likely to see Johnson as toast next year.

  16. From the Tellygaffe…this is really rich, coming as it does from a local authority which, not content with concreting over much of our once green and pleasant land around here with the construction of hundreds of houses in unsuitable locations, is getting its underwear in an uproar over some bats, of which there are already plenty here:

    Cate Blanchett has been forced to halt plans to renovate her £5 million mansion as the building she hoped to demolish has been found to be the favourite roost of a rare bat.

    The actress, 51, and her husband Andrew Upton, 54, applied to Wealden council, asking if they could knock down a shed and a cottage in order to build an office and studio.

    The pair purchased their £4.9million mansion near Crowborough, East Sussex, in 2015, and it was in a somewhat dilapidated state.

    The house was previously owned by Sherlock Holmes creator Sir Arthur Conan Doyle and Doctor Who star Tom Baker and has been rumoured to be haunted due to its ‘creepy’ appearance.

    After ecologists conducted a survey of the site, the couple has been asked to halt their plans and apply for a licence to demolish the structures. They have also been ordered to amend the plans in order to put bat boxes up, so the colonies still have a place to roost.

    Droppings from common pipistrelle and brown long-eared bats were found in the shed, which has been assessed as having “high” roosting potential.

    Both bats are under threat and protected by law, and are seeing their numbers fall in part due to the lack of roosting space, because new buildings do not tend to have high quality roosting areas.

    The council has told the couple that they need a licence from Natural England to destroy the roosting areas, and that they need to implement a Bat Mitigation Strategy “to ensure suitable ecological impact avoidance”

    Following their survey, the ecologists recommended a “bat box, roost unit or dedicated ‘bat loft’ provision… to ensure that the local conservation status of these bat species is maintained”.

    1. Wealden permitted a structure to be built on Green Belt near Rotherfield ” to house Wagyu beef”

      When people driving past see it there is no doubt that it’s a large three storey family house.

      1. ‘Morning, Janet. Is this part of the Blanchard empire or some other blot on the landscape I have yet to hear about? There are so many when it comes to planning consents by Wealden!

        1. We don’t know who owns it.

          We don’t live in Rotherfield, but have had this monstrosity pointed out to us by residents of Rotherfield

        1. Very amusing Kaypea.

          More likely an elegant country mansion for someone very influential.

          …and built on really cheap Green Belt land too!

    2. I fell foul of the bat regulations myself, attempting to apply for planning permission for an extension to my cottage.

      What upset me was not the need to protect bats, which I love and understand the peril they are in as old barns are converted into modern homes. It was the conflict of interest that led the consultants I was required by law to employ, who lied and cheated on their report in order to generate a lot of extra lucrative work for themselves. They behaved like garages, exploiting MoT regulations, gas fitters sucking their teeth and saying “you need a new one, mate” as soon as the old one goes out of warranty, and of course lawyers, who are kept in bollinger over this sort of scamming.

      In my case, the official report stated that my roof was lined (which it wasn’t), and that it was suitable for winter roosting, when its south-facing aspect would have woken them up on a fine day in December, and was well avoided for hibernation. In fact, I could have told them that the bats roosted in my neighbour’s jerrybuilt cladding, put up in 2001 and full of rough timber and small gaps and overlooking an orchard where he kept chickens, attracting insects to their dung. They came into my loft to feast on my flies there and then go back to their des-res next door.

      In the end, I abandoned my application and did essential maintenance instead on the roof, since the slates were slipping and the roof needed lining anyway. This was not held up by the bat regulations, so long as we didn’t disturb any roosts we found. I instructed my roofer to block up the soffits, to prevent any further interference from council officials, but felt bad about it, and put in a little entrance point away from any future building work.

      1. ‘Morning, JM. From what I have heard from friends and neighbours, the ‘bat regulations’ are enforced without any sense of proportion and involve hideously costly surveys that take an age to organise and complete – and as in your case are often inaccurate.

  18. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0964431286cf66d147d4e3904d8accae46403e69374e237c36981e20eb15b2bd.png https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3b4f0bb65a086f7273589a8565e6e3bd526a908d89e87006441ab25f726a62bd.png

    SIR — I must correct Neale Edwards (Letters, December 22) and John Smith (Letters, December 23) regarding the registration number of Princess Anne’s Reliant Scimitar.

    It was 1420KH as she was Colonelin-chief of the 14th/20th King’s Hussars from 1969 until 1992, when the Regiment then amalgamated with the Royal Hussars to become the King’s Royal Hussars. Princess Anne has been Colonel-in-chief of the King’s Royal Hussars since 1992.

    Robert Winterton
    Staunton in the Vale, Nottinghamshire

    SIR — John Smith is in error regarding both the registration number of the Princess Royal’s Reliant Scimitar car and her regimental appointment.
    The Princess was Colonel-in-chief, not “Commander” in Chief, of the 14th/20th King’s Hussars, and the registration plate of a series of Scimitars she owned was 1420H.

    Laurette Burton
    Beccles, Suffolk

    How difficult is it to do some proper research (the internet is your friend) before you commit your erroneous claptrap to a national newspaper? Just one out of four correspondents (Laurette Burton) to have their letter published on this topic over the past few days is in full command of the facts.

    This also is a poor show on the behalf of this newspaper’s editorial committee.

    1. “Committee” you say, Grizz? I thought it was the boy on work experience that ran the letters page.

        1. I disagree.
          OK, she was not a classic beauty, but her face fitted together quite well, and to my mind still does.

          1. I remember seeing a close up of her on TV when she was courting Fog. She smiled & revealed the most terrible chronic gingivitis.

    5. She is also Colonel-in-Chief of my Corps, the Royal Corps of Signals, but I suppose that wouldn’t fit neatly on to a registration plate.

    1. So am I. I took delivery of a 7-function slow cooker at a bargain reduction at the beginning of the month. I shall unpack it tomorrow. I’ve also given myself a new toaster, ditto with the unpacking.

  20. I’ve just noticed 3 or 4 new posters names below. Just one word or two. crisoad, Carol McIntosh, Carol Fairbanks and Dkmy. Are they welcome additions?

    1. Morning Ogga. The chances of the new mutation originating in the UK are surely roughly 1 in 195 (being the number of countries worldwide), but the chances of a new strain being identified here are about 1 in 2 because I understand the mutation was identified through genome sequencing and the UK apparently, does 45% of the world’s genome sequencing (I have little idea what most of this means, so no questions please).

      1. 327681+ up ticks,
        Morning C,
        As far as I can ascertain “genome sequencing” is
        a tool used by the political gnomes of both
        westminster / brussels in their treacherous pursuit
        of controlling the ovis via the “Gates” of hell.

    2. However it got here, you must agree that the timing was most convenient for the EU in their negotiations.

    3. And Kay Burley .. who had a freebie holiday in SAfrica from Branston pickle of Virgin fame and she came home a week ago, after she was booted off Sky for having a 60th party a week previous to her holiday!

  24. Just back from the market. Fewer stalls – but no “social distancing” malarkey. Dry journey there – had to queue at the last place, Cheese Man, and as we left him, the Heavens opened and it poured for the five minutes it took to get back to the car. Then it bloody stopped…and the sun shone. So, wet through to a half empty Morrisons. Then home through the puddles and potholes to two jolly kittens.

    Very cold – 3ºC – plus very strong northerly wind. Glad to be back in NoTTLand.

  26. Sorry, folks, the site is on “Pre-moderate when links present” in posts, to slow down the rush of spammers and potentially virus-laden links.
    Soon be in Tier 3…
    ;-))

      1. Guess they found a way in. I believe the invites were to inform that the site exists, rather than a key to entry.

        2. I suspect that the point of the “conversations” is to try to encourage real posters to click on the link rather than drawing in other spammers. My guess it that it is one entrant to disqus, which then adjusts its profiles once aboard to talk to itself.

          2. The profiles are old – with very few posts. Whether stolen as Engineer Andy suggests or set up deliberately – who knows. They are here to disrupt our normal business.

          3. When a moderator zaps a post, does it kill the profile totally or leave it inert, just in case there is a mistake?
            The first few profiles I examined, before I gave up, looked spammy even from years ago.

          5. I think it is more sinister than that. I suspect it is to spread Trojan horses.
            Maybe I’m just paranoid.

          8. ‘Morning, Sos.

            The links carry the virus – potentially. The other spammers are just members of a supporting cast to ‘encourage’ the unwary.

  28. Just discovered another frustrating consequence of COVID. My MiL, who died the other day, and who had tested positive ONCE out of a dozen tests, cannot therefore be embalmed and thus viewed and cannot also be cremated in her chosen clothing, just the nightdress she died in. This caps the trauma caused to her and us by the NHS, which essentially killed her prematurely by a) giving her COVID which exacerbated her lung condition and b) allowing her to dehydrate which knackered her kidneys. At least, after weeks of arguing with the system, we managed to get her home to die peacefully, surrounded by her family.

    1. So sorry to hear that. At least you got her home.

      It’s inhuman and inhumane to treat people like that. I take it she was a hospital acquired case, even though she was admitted for her other conditions.

      1. Yes. My SiL is still beating herself up as she was the one was caring for her and called for an ambulance to take her in, which started the whole Groundhog Day saga. Still, they say hindsight is 20-20…

        1. I am in a similar situation with an elderly relative. The ambulance has become a harbinger of doom.

          1. We had a series of deaths here in our close a few years ago. We look over the valley to the hospitak, and flashing blue lights are common – and remarkably unwelcome for the same reason, Tim.

    2. It’s a terrible state of affairs A_A, i’m so sorry to hear the bad news. I have also had some bad news the lovely lady formerly the young girl i grew up knowing who lived opposite us, died on the 22nd. Although she was hospitalised in the summer with a TIA. She didn’t die of covid, but of cancer which i believe was not treated sufficiently well enough. I have not been able to speak to her daughter yet, the poor young lady will be devastated, as her father also died 4 years ago also of cancer related issues.

      1. Lordy, the shitstorm just before Christmas.
        I’m sorry about your friend, Eddy. That’s hard, that is.

        1. She was a lovely lady Obs, her mother was German and her father brought them both home with him after being in Germany at the end of the war.
          I’ve now got to phone my younger sister and pass on the news, they were good buddies, she’ll be devastated as well.

        2. It’s an aspect of Christmas that I so dislike.

          Eevery other card seems to contain tales of woe, disease and deaths.
          Often things seem to go in threes, this year we’ve been seeing thrice three. I console myself that it’s due to my age. and that of my friends; but when it is their children dying, rather than them, it is heartbreaking.

    3. Sorry to read that.

      I hope that the people in overall charge eventually face their day of reckoning.

    6. I am sorry to hear that, A_A. It’s bad enough losing a relative, but when you factor in all the other sh/1T that government regulations have added, it becomes almost intolerable.

      1. ‘Morning, Elsie.

        Can I advise you to make your posts a little longer, otherwise they could get zapped in the crossfire with the invading “Viet Cong”.

          1. The Page is being invaded by (mainly) Russian spammers, some of them carry a virus. They use very short messages, mainly one or two words & are easy to identify. They present a danger to our ‘shipping’ & must be sunk. Our duty is to flag them as soon as they appear, then the mods can move in & zap them. It’s all good sport.

            Just enjoyed some of your marmalade on buttered toast for brekkers. 😉

          2. Understood, although I reckon that my name and avatar is well-enough known to prevent that from happening. On the marmalade front, I opened my last home-made jar earlier this week and am also enjoying it on my morning toast – should last me until January when I start hunting for Seville oranges in the local markets and supermarkets.

            PS – Have started fighting (flagging, then blocking) “the Viet Cong” myself, Peddy. It may be fun but it’s time-consuming, so I may leave NoTTL shortly until later this evening.

    1. Apologies, but I chuckled at this. We test because it makes government look like it’s doing something. The test and trace lark was simply scaremongering at immense cost.

      If we start questioning why government does pointless things we’re going to be here a while.

      1. Indeed.
        Every time we appear to have reached rock bottom the Government brings in heavier and more expensive diggers to carry on..

    2. I can’t believe that our stupid political classes including the ridiculously complacent civil service, have allowed so many people to enter the UK unchecked. Surely the Kent area having been constantly invaded by illegals for most of the year has caused the huge rise in virus outbreaks that are spreading around the whole country.
      I’ll bet right at this moment in time whilst truck drivers are being tested before they are allowed to drive through France to get back to their home towns, more are arriving in rubber boats and walking ashore.

      1. It’s almost as if the jihadists have weaponised the virus and are sending in as many infected people as they can.

        1. Good point i’ll have to remember that next time i have a conversation with my elder BiL, but, hang on………. he already knows everything any way.

    1. For some reason I can’t upvote you just now (Disqus again?) so here is an upvote and thank you. Edit: oops the upvote just worked. Anyway, so have two!

    3. For some reason I can’t upvote you just now (Disqus again?) so here is an upvote and thank you. Edit: oops the upvote just worked. Anyway, so have two!

  32. Yesterday’s attacks are continuing, I’m afraid. I closed yesterday’s thread to make it easier to spot the buggers. Please flag if you see one, and don’t go anywhere near their hyperlinks!
    Happy Christmas!

    1. Thanks, Paul. It’s happening right across the Disqus platform. Disqus is supposedly aware of the issue, so will probably do bugger all about it as usual.

      1. Wondered if we should put comments with links to pre-approval? What do you think, Geoff?

      3. But of course, Geoff. Don’t forget that with the Christmas holidays, Covid-19 and all its mutations, and other aspects of “these difficult times”, we shall have to be patient with Disqus and leave them alone until the New Year.

    2. Two contributions, by Angie Caiani and Rip Skinz, have been flagged by my anti-virus program as dangerous

        1. I’ve just flagged a couple of dozen on yes’day’s page. And one so far on this page.

        2. My mother had a Flit Gun,
          Twas not devoid of charm,
          A bit of Flit came out of it
          And the rest shot up her arm.

    4. I think my experience was pure co-incidence; I would imagine this is a prime time for catching people on the hop.
      In my case, through pure happenstance, the rats phoned when I was dealing with two meat orders arriving, the supplier was hobbling around with a bad back and MB was shouting through the house that ‘Alan needed paying and you are holding him up’.
      They are now crafty enough to emphasise that they don’t want your card number or to know what bank you use.
      Fingers crossed, all sorted.

      1. Sos, there are three comments added in response to your post from “d lindley”, “Wina Ahmad” and “TURK”. Are these also dangerous spam? If so they need to be banned and removed.

        1. I’m flagging away like nobody’s business, then it’s up to the mods to zap them. All good for the hand-eye coordination.

    6. I’ve found and flagged a few just now. A link, followed by a tail of replies thanking for the useful link all from those I’ve never seen here before. I expect others will help keep them down as they pop up during the day.

      1. ‘Morning, Jeremy.

        I’ve lost count of the number I’ve flagged so far today & it’s still early. Must be about 40.

    1. Why does he turn away and then tick his head to the side?

      On the speech itself, pointing out hte spending is rational, but he doens’t need to blame China. He could have said more money is going to foreign countries than to Americans and thus the bill isn’t reasonable.

      It came off as far too against other nations than for America.

    2. maybe Trump should take this up with his Republicans in the senate and congress, you know act like a leader or something.

  34. The trade talks continue. Fish has hit a stumbling block and hours more talking predicted. Boris’s speech delayed further. The deal should not be finalised as the EU 27 cannot vote to agree to it until a date in 2021. If one or more of the EU27 veto the deal where does that Leave the UK. The EU 27 must approve the deal before 31/12/2020.

    2. Boris has done a great deal. The EU gets all our fish and the UK get all those migrant doctors, surgeons, engineers and scientists coming through Calais.

      1. It’s brilliant and oven-ready.

        But of course it should be reduced to dust in a blast furnace.

  35. I had a 9:30 appointment for my annual blood tests this morning, i made my usual observation about the four little containers the lady got out of the drawer, that’s a whole arm full !! She laughed and we had a nice chat about Tony Hancock and then Les Dawson and his brilliant humour.

    Oh well time to get kitted up and take doggo out for her daily, she’s got a fur coat, i might have to put my woolly hat on.

  36. EUSSR history 2030

    D Day History 2025

    On 6 June 1944 a very large force of German soldiers landed on the Normandy beaches, to help the
    Brave and Glorious French troops encircle and defeat the cowardly British and Commonewealth forces
    who had invaded France in the early 1940’s

    The rout of the British forces was successful and the warmonger (and slave owner) Winston Churchill
    was duly prosecuted for war crimes

  37. ‘Morning All
    How cute each Spammer comes with their very own coterie of spam fritters
    Good fun frying the lot
    Edit
    The bastards are legion,I’m busier than a one armed paperhanger

    2. Good morning, Rik.
      I have spent an hour deleting the trolls.
      I haven’ had time to read any normal
      posters, sorry about that everyone.

      I am orf to the Hairdressers,
      back later!

    1. It made my heart sing and so lovely to see and hear real people not concerned with ‘the virus’.

  40. Excellent Letter from Michael Wilkinson, which confirms what I believed to be the case as regards the virus generally. A pity Whittless, InVallid and Hancockup haven’t figured this out yet, but worse still are pretending that these new strains are ‘worse’, when the opposite is likely true, because with the easier they are to transmit, the less potent they are and as such, less people will be hospitalised with serious cases and die.

    If we’re lucky, COVID could mutate enough in this way that it just fizzles out of its own accord, rather like Spanish flu did. I’m cerainly not taking any vaccine that hasn’t been thoroughly tested (as all other completely new medicnes are) over 5-10 to check for long term side effects, especially those made using completely new techniques, such as the Pfizer one.

    1. Morning Andy and all Nottlers.

      The government doesn’t want the virus to “fizzle out”, in fact it’s determined to keep it going at least until Easter. It’s the most wonderful way to keep us all under control. Can’t gather outside (to cause trouble), can’t mix inside (to foment trouble), can’t travel (to carry out trouble). (Obvs BLM are excluded from all three). Unfortunately due to the public following to the nth degree their restrictions the public has made it easy for them. IIRC it was said that it came as a surprise how the public responded so well to the rules and regulations.

      And they are going to make it exceedingly uncomfortable for those who decline the new vaccine.

      1. Oh I know this, that’s why we need to spread the word about the real science, not the scaremongering by Hancock and Whitty fed by the big Pharma companies and non-scientist backers like Bill Gates who stands to make a fortune out of the continued use of vaccines, immunity passports, etc.

        1. Alf and I endeavour to spread the word. But it seems people are either unwilling to consider all the other evidence and long standing rigorous testing carried out in previous vaccinations or they are far too scared from 9 months plus deliberate scaremongering from the gover ment and the MSM. They seem to have stopped thinking for themselves.

    2. 327681+ up ticks,
      Morning EA,
      I do believe that digitdick will tell you this new virus has an
      anti fizzle agent incorporated within, if he hasn’t yet he will do on reading this comment.

    4. Ease of transmission and potency are not necessarily related. Also, bear in mind the Spanish Flu mutated into a form that proved more fatal to the younger generation because of the cytokine storm effect, where the suffered is killed by their own hyper-active immune system.

    1. I think his father had something to say about accountability and getting rid of people in power.

  43. Good afternoon

    I simple Christmas story.

    An Italian priest who belonged to an order that forbade alcohol. The local wine merchant was aware that he liked a tipple and his favourite was Cherry Brandy.

    The wine merchant met the priest in the street and said he would deliver a case of Cherry brandy to the priest if he acknowledged receipt by putting an advertisement in the local newspaper. The priest thought for a few moments and agreed with the request.

    The following day the wine merchant delivered the Cherry Brandy.

    Two days later in the local newspaper the following advertisement appeared.

    The priest thanks the wine merchant for the cherries and the spirit in which they were sent.

    Happy Christmas all.

    1. For all his capability Mr Farage does not do detail, so I am rather questionable that he’d be the best barometer.

      1. So Farage has decided to go down with Johnson and the Conservative Party.

        Come on ogga: tell us you told us so!

        1. Or, was that “go down on Johnson”? Might as well have done so for the effect it has!

    2. Either Farage has given up the fight or he has read the ‘deal’ from cover to cover.

  45. Last few presents wrapped. Hole saw drill set for the warqueen, tiny pair of white hotpants – also for the warqueen but more a present for me. The new horse tack while could be misconstrued is actually for the mare.

    They are her joke present for this year.

      1. I’ll admit, having a boy toddler is really nice. It means i can buy absurd lego kits and pretend they’re for him.

          1. At the moment, yes.

            Given a choice I’d set up a giant race track but i’d really like to get him into model trains so we can build scenery and what not together.

            At the moment we’re playing a lot of X Wing using, well, uncomplicated rules.

        2. When Second Son was small, we’d skip through the dry leaf piles on the way to kindergarten, and kick pine cones. A small child is a free pass to be childish onesself!

        3. There are many great advantages to coming to fatherhood late. I was 47 when Christo was born and 49 when Henry was born which meant Ii could play with toys throughout my 50’s without having to wait until I had grandchildren.

  46. I see that reisdent EUrotroll at the Telegraph (taking over from the equally remoaner Peter Foster) James Cisp is being roasted by readers in his articles gushing about the ‘Deal’ today – they don’t believe a word of it, having seen what Mrs May and to an extent Boris himself did with the WA.

    MPs better read it it all properly and take proper legal advice before voting on it, assuming it does actually come in time.

    1. I agree with minimum wage – being a politician should be ‘in addition’ to another job uness you’re a cabinet minister.

      I don’t mind them running a business, but if there is even the slightest hint of profiting from their status as an MP, they are sacked and fined the contract value. It isn’t difficult to promote honesty – such could be publicised very easily to prevent any appearance of fraud.

    2. makes a lot more sense in the current US environment with Senators on $174,000 a year arguing against extending benefits to laid off workers.

      I was surprised to see that the poor things have to contribute to their healthcare insurance though, I would have thought that they would have arranged a better deal there.

  48. The Christmas 2020 Quiz

    Sketch and describe the main differences to UK between

    Covid Cure and Brexit Deal

    Answer None, we will be up Scheitzen Strasse with both

    1. Well, mightier than us. Have any of them so much as negotiated a cheaper price in a shop?

  50. They’ve kept our fish, put an EU border down the middle the UK, they get to control the level playing field and we submit to a “third party” court they will set up.

    Consider that we could have left cleanly and completely in July 2106 by means of an Order in Council.

    1. Let’s hope our MPs show some testicular fortitude and vote it down. I won’t hold my breath, however.

      1. I suppose that as I live in France I should be delighted at the EU’s victory over Britain and its incompetent politicians.

        L’Angleterre a vraiment perdu et a été totalement humiliée by le Français magnifique, M. Michel Barnier. Albion n’est plus perfide. L’Angleterre ne signifie plus. L’Angleterre ne vaut rien. L’Angleterre est faible. Notre victoire complète est formidable.

        I shall now have to improve my French a bit and maybe it would be pragmatic for me to apply for French nationality.

  53. WHO has deleted Naturally Acquired Immunity from its website:…..

    https://www.aier.org/article/who-deletes-naturally-acquired-immunity-from-its-website/

    “What this note at the World Health Organization has done is deleted what amounts to the entire million-year history of humankind in its delicate dance with pathogens. You could only gather from this that all of us are nothing but blank and unimprovable slates on which the pharmaceutical industry writes its signature.

    In effect, this change at WHO ignores and even wipes out 100 years of medical advances in virology, immunology, and epidemiology. It is thoroughly unscientific – shilling for the vaccine industry in exactly the way the conspiracy theorists say that WHO has been doing since the beginning of this pandemic.

    What’s even more strange is the claim that a vaccine protects people from a virus rather than exposing them to it. What’s amazing about this claim is that a vaccine works precisely by firing up the immune system through exposure. Why I had to type those words is truly beyond me. This has been known for centuries. There is simply no way for medical science completely to replace the human immune system. “

    1. There is simply no way for medical science completely to replace the human immune system.

      Why would it? Vaccines are used to encourage the immune system to generate appropriate antigens to fight viruses. In the past it was done by injecting similar but non-lethal viruses or dead viruses. Nowadays they can be genetically tailored for specific viruses to minimise side-effects.

      1. “Vaccines are used to encourage the immune system to generate appropriate antigens…”

        Antibodies, AA.

      3. I suspect that the vast majority of genetic modifications, or mutations as I tend to regard them, kill or harm the “beneficiary”.

        Only a very few give significant long term advantages.

        I find it to be very arrogant of mankind to think that the scientists can speed up the processes of evolution with no long term risk that we’re not being shunted into siding, like so many now extinct species who enjoyed temporary benefits from their mutation.

    2. Noted this earlier today:-https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/924cb5ba16c8145aa13b1ba5116bcf17a54e69b559bacfd96097df200cc4a971.jpg

  55. Some one has suggested that Boris’s gift in the bottom of the Christmas stocking to us , is a lump of hard cold coal ! No apples , satsumas or chocolates at the end of the stocking just a lump of coal!

    We still have to abide by their bossy rules .

      1. He is waffling a bit and not giving important detailed information. He is boasting about his achievement more than anything else.

        1. Sheesh. That’s what Chamberlain did. Mind you, he only had one sheet of paper to wave at the cameras, not 1,500 of them.

  58. Afternoon, all. After doing the household chores and dealing with MOH (who came down undressed thinking it was midnight – “no, if it were midnight, it would be DARK”), I went out for a long walk with my neighbour and her three dogs. It was very cold, so when I got back in, I had several glasses of mulled wine, a mince pie and a slice of Christmas cake. I may not be feeling as festive as I should be, but at least I’ve thawed out!

    1. Conwy, your stoicism and patience is an example to us all. It makes the tribulations of most of us seem trivial.

      Nadolig hapus iawn

  59. ”Holmes, do you think there’s more than one Santa ?”

    ”Yes, Watson, I do. First there’s Santa Claus who visits only at Christmas with his sleigh and reindeer bringing presents and joy to everyone.

    In addition, I think there’s super generous everyday Santa who drops sackfuls of dollars down selected chimneys all year which is probably why so many ”officials and politicians” are in a ”strong relationship” with him”.

    ”Ooooh, that’s awesome, Holmes, how do I get into a ”strong relationship” with super generous everyday Santa ?”

    ”First you have to become a really important politician, Watson, then you have to drink champagne with him at Davos like David Cameron, or at the New York Plaza Hotel like Tony Blair, have all the right connections, and do exactly what he wants. It’s a sure way to get millions of dollars down your chimney every day if you have a colluding inclination………

    Then Santa Soros will come to you, Watson, he will, he will…..

    and my client, Lord Lockemup in Pentonville !”

    1. I sometimes think that you post some paranoid drivel but I do think that what you have posted above is pretty amusing and deserving of an upvote. Happy Christmas and all the best for 2021.

      1. Thanks, but I’d be interested to hear what you regard as ”paranoid drivel”.

        To check if I’m correct, and to provide evidence to you.

        1. There is no point in my stating examples because you and I have very different interpretations of the situation. I can never persuade you that your views are incorrect any more than you can persuade me that I am incorrect.

          2. I made no claim at all, I stated that I sometimes think that you post some paranoid drivel. That is not a claim, that is fact because it is what I do think. Now let’s turn to the other statement that I made. I think that the very numerous posts by you asserting that Trump was robbed of the election are paranoid drivel and I do not think that you will ever be persuaded that he was not robbed. However, I cannot entirely discount the possibility, highly unlikely though I think it is, that he was in fact robbed. So here is my challenge to you: if the US Supreme Court rules that he was robbed, I will freely and in this forum concede that I was wrong – no weasel words, no qualifiers, no ifs or buts. On the other hand, if the Supreme Court rules that Trump was not robbed, will you admit that you were wrong? That is a very simple challenge where only one of us can be correct; are you up to it?

          5. No ducking, ducky. It is ”drivel” to even think President Trump lost when there is masses of statistical and factual evidence out there to prove mass cheating in the swing states, and corruption and blackmail of judges and officials.

            All you have to do is seek, and you will find.

            Start with President Trump’s Twitter a/c. There’s a ton of stuff there to view.

          6. My challenge stands. If you are confident of your case, you should have no fear of accepting it.

          7. I have no fear at all, and I accept your challenge.

            But at the same time I am not going to run around providing loads of links when it’s all out there and so easy to find.

            I’ve told you where to start, so off you go……………….

          8. We may never agree about Trump but allow me to wish you a very Happy Christmas and share with you my hope that 2021 will be a better year than this one.

          10. I am not asking you for links or for evidence – I am quite content to let the Supreme Court decide.

          12. A novena would do (ps. I had to look up what novena was – I am a borne-again heathen). Happy Christmas.

    2. When I was a toddler & every department store had a Santa in his grotto, I turned to my father after one visit & said, “Of course, these are not the real Santa, because they all look different. They are his helpers.”

      Precocious, even then.

      1. I knew perfectly well that the real Santa spent his mornings in Barkers and his afternoons in Derry and Toms.
        When he changed grottos, he hoiked up his long coat and sprinted across the concourse above Ken. High Street tube station.

          4. I’ve always hated pantos, fairgrounds, circuses, jugglers, clowns & magicians.

            Oh, & estate agents.

          5. At the tender age of about 14 – I think – it was a long time ago, at a village fete thing mother would drag us to I remember turning around and coming face to face with a bloke dressed as a clown. He had the most rotten scowl on – I imagine I returned it ten fold.

          7. The inner child in me loves Panto, I love magic shows , I hate fireworks , I love to burst out laughing, which is rare for me .

            I have been watching ‘Open all hours’, and have thoroughly enjoyed David Jason and companions, cheesy humour wins me over every time .

            The old comedy classics Laurel and Hardy and the rest , and films like the Wizard of Oz , gentle stuff.

          11. I can laugh at many things from subtle to outrageous. The only thing that has invariably left me cold, even as a child, is circus clowns.

          12. Same as me . Clowns are grotesque . I also hate people who gurn and grimace , I am very aware of smiley people ,scowly sour people , and severe humourless people .

            Wry smiles are quite comforting , I used to be hopeless at reading faces , eyes are an easier giveaway!

          13. You are correct in your observations about clowns. Clowns or killers wearing clown costumes appear so often in horror movies that I wonder if they reflect some deep-seated, ancient abhorrence of them.

          15. Ronnie Barker was a genius: as was his scriptwriter, Gerald Wiley.

            Counting: one, two, three …

      2. you surely don’t believe that a single person does all those present deliveries round the world in one night, do you?

        In reality each country where Christmas is celebrated has its own organisation to look after its children and, where there are neighbouring countries where Christmas is not so widely celebrated, in those lads too.
        Here in the UK we have two organisations in the UK.
        The Ancient Order of Father Christmas is the original and consists of the traditional Father Christmases who get together and organise the bulk of the present deliveries.
        Then you have The Amalgamated Union of Santa Clauses, a Johnny come lately outfit who are trying to muscle on the AOFC.

        And somewhere in that scenario has got to be a series of children’s book waiting to be written!!

          1. The maths involved is fascinating – apparently to get everywhere, he’d shatter every bone in his body due to the g force.

            Frankly, I knew Santa didn’t exist from a young age. I’d tell my folks what I wanted and not get it. Therefore, either Santa was a git, or wasn’t real.

    1. Paul has just introduced pre-moderation of posts with links. I’ve flagged at least 50 this morning & I could do with a rest.

        1. I can well imagine that, but at least I & others are saving your having to hunt for them.

    2. Gosh. I really picked the wrong morning to post a cheery little video, didn’t I??

      Keep up the good work, and thanks.

    4. Just out of interest, are they coming from anywhere? I assume the server has a log, perhaps if they’re coming from the same IP address then traffic from there could be dropped?

      1. No – they all have different IP addresses. Most of them are old accounts, with few posts – indicating they have either been lying in wait for some time or they are using hacked accounts and emails.

      1. No, Enri.

        They are toxic, it is too easy to
        click onto their post and possibly
        compromise your own integrity.

        1. Ok, it was just a thought. I use an iPad so am reasonably safe from damage from clicking on an unsafe link and, in the event of a worst case scenario, it is easy to restore from backup. I so miss all the opportunities to meet attractive Russian beauties, have $2.5 million gifted to my bank account by the daughters/wives of deposed African dictators or check on a delivery by DPD though! Mind you, hundreds of Indian gentlemen have assured me that my computer is actually infected with a virus and they can fix it for me. I rather miss keeping them on the phone for up to 45 minutes while I log on to my computer.

      2. They mostly have strange names, post either a link with no explanation, or they are giving short replies like “good site” or Thanks for the invitation” to the poster of the link.

  61. ‘Morning,all. Going to be busy over the holiday and I’ll not be around for a couple of days, so let me wish a Merry Christmas to everybody, especially those of you who are on your own at this time. Let’s hope that by Christmas 2021 this nightmare will be long over, although if Wee Krankie and Mad Doris – together with their coterie of tw@s – are still in charge of our affairs, I’m not optimistic.

    Nollaig Chridheil !

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/026671278d8187eb4cb9517820353f5a63f7653d6d1442b0c96a6df7024a22da.gif

    5. Sending love and best wishes to you and all the family! I hope you have a wonderful Christmas and enjoy every minute of it! 🎄⛄️🎁🎅

  62. Good morning.

    A question for the modifiers and all other sentient and erudite posters on this forum. Please educate me in Social Media protocols.

    As far as I know, other social media platforms such as Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram et al have the ability to ban users effectively and permanently if, in their opinion, those users have committed cardinal sins against those media. If that is the case, why does it seem such a difficult proposition to permanently banish such types from this forum?

    I hear all the moderators saying that they have “removed” and “banned” all those spammers that are appearing in waves over the past two days on this forum; yet they still come back, and in droves. Is it the fact that Disqus doesn’t provide the same methods of permanently identifying and banishing such shit as other platforms do?

    Please enlighten me since I am as confused as I am angered by the constant drip drip drip of drivel from these twats.

    1. https://disqus.com/home/discussion/channel-discussdisqus/bug_reports_feedback_bots_everywhere/ may provide enlightenment.

      It’s easy enough for a mod to bulk delete the flagged posts; to ban each so-called poster has to be done individually, and requires several key strokes / mouse clicks / whatever. Life is too short, and as Peddy says, each bogus account rarely if ever appears twice. For what it’s worth, I get an email each time a post is flagged, and thus far I’ve had 164 since yesterday morning.

    2. Morning Grizz. Surely the fact that they cannot be banned leads one to conclude that they are an approved (though denied) pest!

      1. Morning, Araminta.

        What I am trying to convey is this: on other social media platforms you cannot just simply turn up and start posting comments; you have to first go through an acceptance protocol. On this forum there are no such protocols and anyone can simply post whatever they like. Methinks it is beyond time for Disqus to arrange the imposition of such similar protocols to make it nigh-on impossible for this current situation to manifest itself.

        1. This present infestation is obviously not the work of individuals but a product of a professional team using computers to manufacture and vary both the posters and their messages. Since there is no profit in such an arrangement it must be the work of a government agency. Probably GCHQ. It might also be pointed out that its appearance is coinciding with the “Trade Agreement” and when the government is experiencing difficulties over the Virus.

        2. This present infestation is obviously not the work of individuals but a product of a professional team using computers to manufacture and vary both the posters and their messages. Since there is no profit in such an arrangement it must be the work of a government agency. Probably GCHQ. It might also be pointed out that its appearance is coinciding with the “Trade Agreement” and when the government is experiencing difficulties over the Virus.

          2. Not likely to be GCHQ or MI6, because the grammar in some is imperfect. Unless, of course, it’s a double bluff.

        3. Disqus is a no-frills platform that is free for us to use. Once you have gone through the hoops to open an account you can post anywhere that uses Disqus for comments.

          1. Even if your upvotes have crashed through the floor, it seems. The rumours at the time were that other Disqus sites would be closed to us; turned out not to be so.

      1. I’ve reported & blocked ever spammer and have, occasionally, seen the support spammers come up with this person is blocked.

    4. As I’ve discovered on other (unrelated) forums, spammers are VERY hard to get rid of unless the software used by the forum is high end and the mods have decent IT backup and a LOT of time – the spammers just rejoin under another name and go again. Some sites (with a lot of money behind them) can use their resources to ban specific IP addresses and perhaps (I’m no IT expert) groups from certain nations, but there may well be ways around that as well for the most determined.

      Spammers, phishers, hackers, etc often appear around bank holidays and especially Christmas and New Year, because they believe people are distracted and not paying enough attention to stop them clicking on what could be a dodgy link or email. Note that they can come from real site members who have themselves been hacked.

      One problem I have is that (presumably) my ad blocker ad-on software blocks much of the direct links for twatter etc, so I have to personally jusge whether it’s worth opening such links via the right mouse click on a new browser tab. What I would ask everyone to do is to give a brief description of what is in the link, rather than just post them with nothing else (or a one to two word post) because that could be a hacker taking control of your account.

    5. https://disqus.com/home/discussion/channel-discussdisqus/bug_reports_feedback_bots_everywhere/ may provide enlightenment.

      It’s easy enough for a mod to bulk delete the flagged posts; to ban each so-called poster has to be done individually, and requires several key strokes / mouse clicks / whatever. Life is too short, and as Peddy says, each bogus account rarely if ever appears twice. For what it’s worth, I get an email each time a post is flagged, and thus far I’ve had 164 since yesterday morning.

      1. Morning Geoff. Were you up extra early today or even later to bed yesterday? I was still
        Edit: were you not we’re hou!

        1. The social media giants have vast amounts of money to deal with this with fancy software and IT people/mods to delete accounts and check IP addresses, etc. It all comes down to time and resources, something most small sites running (basic) generic software just don’t have. I used to be a member of Yahoo Groups until the essentially got taken over by spammers etc, because there weren’;t enough mods or the software to keep blocking them.

          The daft thing is that in the UK, spammers get very little ‘business’ from posting. Phishers, on the other hand, can do, especially with the less computer-literate (particularly OAPs) and busy people.

          1. I gave up on Yahoo when they “upgraded” their user interface (regulars will know the general Green > Purple lament that took place then that lost them perhaps 80% of their user base.

            Since then, they have got into dreadful habits, with forced malware scripts, compliance notices, warnings about unsupported browsers, and that wretched Cookie Agreement popup that’s everywhere right now – sometimes reasonably well-mannered, but usually forcing an early Stop Loading click before it freezes the page and blots out any readable content.

            I can never get past the first page these days, and therefore don’t
            bother with Yahoo any longer. I’ve had a dormant email account there
            for yonks, but haven’t worked a way around their User Agreement,
            requiring me to accept a library of terms and conditions, most of it
            American and corporate-legal, giving them free rein over my system with
            no legal redress.

          2. Morning Peddy, I flagged a couple, but I’m working this morning, so minimal time to join in.

  63. Heavy winter rain causes flooding – SHOCK.

    A puzzled pensioner writes: Why do people drive their cars through 3 ft deep floods and then are surprised when the car stalls? Just asking…

      1. It’s part of driving lessons for any youngster growing up in this part of the world… :-((

    1. I had a long (an hour and 45 minutes) conversation with my old mate Bruce who lives south east of Melbourne yesterday morning. When they have groceries etc delivered they leave them under the cover of a carport for a few days before taking them in the house and unpacking the bags and boxes.
      It seems to work the whole State was clear i until some dick illegally crossed the state border went to Sydney and brought the vrius back with him.

    2. I was in my jimjams earlier when I hung a washed duvet cover on the washing line ( the garden is private) The cold chilly air hit me hard, but I felt alive , the chill made me tingle .. yes I really did feel alive.

        1. Hello Bill,

          I suspect your kittens are snuggled up together , hope you are keeping warm.

          Must have been 4C here, brisk breeze , drying wind .

          I suspect you are feeling the full force of the chilly weather .

          1. A friend of mine, while sunbathing in the enclosed back garden was plagued by a neighbour with a drone a couple of summers ago. I would have wished that I had kept my boyhood air rifle.

          2. Yep just a coincidence of course. 🪂
            But………
            There are plenty of drones on here already Bill, some of them watch everything you do. 🤓 Or should i say “One does” ?

    3. We are very lucky in having an absolute hero as our postman. Always cheerful; always asking if everything is OK; an ideal chap doing a job he enjoys. And no sodding mask, either!

      1. And ours, I spoke to a postie who was wearing shorts last week, i asked him if he was doing it for a bet. No he replied and laughed.

      2. And ours, I spoke to a postie who was wearing shorts last week, i asked him if he was doing it for a bet. No he replied and laughed.

      3. I hope you’ve proposed him for an award, Bill. My Lord (actually a woman) Lieutenant has an award scheme for people who’ve helped out during the panic (sic).

    1. Rather disturbing that this came from Boris, but it shows the lack of awareness these people have of the EU.

      As for the commenters beneath – those supporting it, running this country down and clamouring to remain part of that hateful organisation – five rounds, rapid!

  68. More than 50 Australian coal ships remain stranded off China’s coast despite power blackouts. 24 December 2020.

    More than 50 Australian coal ships are still stranded off China’s coast, held up by a Chinese government import ban, despite the country facing coal shortages and one of its worst power blackouts in years.

    But according to data provided to the Guardian by the energy market intelligence firm, Kpler, ships carrying hundreds of millions of tonnes of Australian coal – some of it already paid for – remain stranded off the coast after the government suddenly banned imports in October amid a deepening trade dispute.

    The Aussies are getting this treatment because they have been the most outspoken in their criticism of China something the UK government should bear in mind when it proposes action against them. It’s also worth noting how little support the Wallabies have received in comparison to the harmless “hacking” of US websites by supposed Russian operatives.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/dec/24/more-than-50-australian-coal-ships-remain-stranded-off-china-coast-despite-power-blackouts

    1. “…something the UK government should bear in mind when it proposes action against them.” That sounds like a call for us to roll over every time another country is nasty to us.

      2. More likely a warning that China will screw anyone who has the temerity to challenge and one should be very careful when trading with them or using their technology.

    2. On our long phone call Bruce told me yesterday that the Chinese (not what he actually called them) have slapped a huge import tariffs on Ozzie wine and Beef. But now he thinks the Chinese (not what he called them again) have ‘persuade’ people in South America to fell millions of tress and turn the land into cattle ranches just so they can get hold of cheaper beef.

      1. Morning Eddy. It’s quite obvious that the Chinese are a particularly nasty bunch and we have by our actions gifted them an ally in the form of Russia!

        2. Good morrow. They seem to do what they like Minty, they have already taken most of the copper from Zimbabwe, probably making the now thankfully dead Mugabe a richer corpse.

      2. Where was extinction rebellion then? Oh yes, effing up the traffic in Cardiff. That really made a difference, didn’t it?

        1. I don’t know about ‘extinction rebellion’, this planet is in dire need of an extinction event; mainly of one over-represented pestilent species.

          1. My challenge to Lefty Greens is always the same – live without any of the trappings created by energy.

            When they refuse you know that they’re just hypocrites who want other people to lose out but not themselves.

        2. Exactly.
          I tried to get a reaction from them and green peace over a local proposal to decimate green belt woodland, wild life and adjacent agricultural land they didn’t even bother to reply nor did the so called f green party. They have no morals at all.

      3. Not just the Chinese. Once this tactic has been shown to work, who knows who’s next?

        Blockading of Dover, with 3000 lorries backed up in Tier 4 Kent, unless we hand over by Christmas all but 15% (of what is landed and declared) the fish and all that dwells in or under the sea for conversion into money abroad?

      1. I would normally demand royalties, but since it’s Christmas you can have that one for free, Bob.

      2. Experience says that the initial way of dealing with an issue sets the pattern for the rest of the dealings. Go in hard & ease off later has worked all my professional life. Confront the problem, nose-to-nose and don’t back down, or you’ll always be backing down.

  70. Just been out to fetch something from the car. Beautiful sunshine, but the cold north wind cuts like a knife.

    1. Just taken Spartie for a walk. It is certainly bracing; but it is dry and he met lots of doggie chums.

      2. Same here when I took my aged pooch out for a pootle around. He went out with three friends and met lots of others on the walk. We had a bit of a WW3 moment (not intentionally of his making for once) when he decided he’d walk under a whippet and the bitch objected in no uncertain manner 🙂

      3. Dotty came home, after an exhausting walk, with mud up to her oxters and a few splashback on her head but she seems to have enjoyed her 5 mile hike.

    2. -1½°C first thing when I began cleaning the crap out of the back of the van earlier, but beautifully bright & sunny so that, after the sun moved round past the mill water tower, it warmed up quite nicely.
      However, the sun is now on the verge of dipping below the opposite side of the valley, so, doubt, it’ll start getting colder.

  71. O – I made a BTL comment in The Grimes yesterday and had a reply from Geoffrey Woollard in words that clearly showed that he kept an eye on NoTTL.

    He asked about the kittens and wished me and “the MR” the best for Christmas.

  72. The quick-witted Russian who saved millions of lives. 24 December 2020.

    In the early morning of 26 September 1983, Stanislav Petrov of the Soviet Union’s Air Defence Force was on duty, monitoring his country’s satellite system, when the siren sounded. His computer indicated that the US had just launched five nuclear-armed intercontinental ballistic missiles, and protocol required him to notify superiors immediately. Soviet strategy was to ‘launch on warning’, and many in Moscow believed Ronald Reagan was planning a first strike.

    But Petrov had a gut feeling this was a false alarm. Five missiles seemed too few, and the system itself was new. He did not inform superiors and within a few minutes it became clear that he had been right. Much of the world could have been destroyed within an hour if Petrov had followed protocol. It was only because of his intensive training and quick wits that many millions of lives weren’t lost. Afterwards, he was reprimanded for failure to do his post-event paperwork properly.

    We have fluked many similar episodes since the 1960s. ‘Launch on warning’ protocols combined with flawed early warning systems remain a huge danger today. Nuclear and biological weapons are proliferating. Issues of existential importance are largely ignored and our political systems incentivise politicians to focus more on Twitter and gossip-column stories about their dogs.

    Would Petrov have taken such a chance with Biden as President?

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-quick-witted-russian-who-saved-millions-of-lives

    1. What silly speculation.

      Do you really think that Biden would have acted outside of the established talk and defer action approach of his predecessors?

      On the other hand, hawkish Republicans spurring on an out of control president could well result in such action. Its just as well that Trump knows more than all of the intelligence gatherers and blames China not Russia for the recent cyber spying.

    2. 327681+ up ticks,
      O2O,
      As in the political past / present leaders department the Batten chap got a very good positive response to his Christmas greeting to all twitterers, can that be said of any others in the leadership fraternity.?

    1. It’s going to cost you a lot.

      Vengeance will continue until we are safely back in the arms of the EU.

    2. NF must be a speed reader, 2000 pages long.
      No one can give a considered opinion even if they have had a sneak preview, but that is part of the EU and Johnson’s plan, ram it through at the last minute.

      1. There is a 17-page summary of UK wins, EU wins and UK/EU compromises posted at present on the Guido Fawkes site, vvof. (I have not yet read it, btw.)

        1. Afternoon Elsie, my point exactly, a 17 page summary cannot be the basis of a 2000 page deal.
          History has shown the world that the devil is in the detail with EU treaties as other countries has found out.
          My level of trust in the EU is only matched by my level of trust in Johnson and whilst compromise should be accepted, let’s have a proper look at it before agreeing it.

      2. Most of the details were settled some time a go & he would have had time to read them. He had merely to catch up with the finale.

    3. 327681+ up ticks,
      Afternoon HJ,
      Is this the chap you mean, he does seem to have a funny way of showing appreciation to the UKIP party membership that worked for years at giving him a platform.

      If in a crowd with him make sure he is in the front.

  76. I had a 9:30 appointment for my annual blood tests this morning, i made my usual observation about the four little containers the lady got out of the drawer, that’s a whole arm full !! She laughed and we had a nice chat about Tony Hancock and then Les Dawson and his brilliant humour.

    Oh well time to get kitted up and take doggo out for her daily, she’s got a fur coat, i might have to put my woolly hat on.

  78. EUSSR history 2030

    D Day History

    On 6 June 1944 a very large force of German soldiers landed on the Normandy beaches, to help the
    Brave and Glorious French troops encircle and defeat the cowardly British and Commonewealth forces
    who had invaded France in the early 1940’s

    The rout of the British forces was successful and the warmonger (and slave owner) Winston Churchill
    was duly prosecuted for war crimes

    1. Normally I have a very light lunch and my main meal in the evening, Peddy. But since I will be having a substantial Christmas lunch tomorrow at around 1pm, I have just eaten a large Spanish Omelette and will just have a roll and a bowl of soup tonight in order to prepare myself.

      1. I usually skip lunch, but today, tomorrow & Boxing Day are exceptions. This fizz is very good; it’s a Cremant de Bourgogne & the car boot has provided an excellent chiller in this weather.

        I had a Spanish O. last night & it was superb.

      2. Mmmmm,,, Just discovered that the merest hint of your orange marmalade on the toast before spreading the pâté lifts things to a whole new dimension.
        Now for a few nut biscotti to dunk in the fizz.

        1. Toasted cheese with a spread of marmalade under the cheese is delicious. Not just a hint, though, but not too thick either.

          1. Must try that. It has occurred to me that a smear of marmalade, or plum, or red currant jam under duck pâté could work wonders.

      1. 1,500 is close to the usual 2,000 that is used for sampling public opinion. Ergo, if no-one has tested positive then by extrapolation, no-one in the UK should have COVID. Well, at least that’s the sort of spurious argument the likes of SAGE might employ.

        1. It’s the Standard! That said the figures give food for thought. We have here fifteen hundred people who have been to diverse parts of the UK and interacted with its citizens and not one of them has contracted so much as a cough? This says that either the testing regime is crap or there’s very little in the way of actual threat!

          2. I believe that most of the foreign lorry drivers seldom leave their cabs to interact with others. They down and up load paperwork electronically and the vehicles are unloaded and reloaded by staff in the UK and they drive back.

            They have sleeping accommodation etc in the cabs.
            It’s why the French/EU ban was such a nonsense.
            It was merely a useful pretext to demonstrate how awkward they could make life if we didn’t agree to EU Brexit demands and to divert attention away from Toy Boy’s own problems.

          3. Possibly not connected, but I also understand that drivers only have to be paid as per laws in their originating country (or maybe wherever the truck is registered), so these drivers are unlikely to be earning even close to the UK Min Wage.

          4. Drivers are paid as per the laws in their country of employment. Not them, or the truck, the location of employment is that of the employer.

            If they are employed in the UK, by Stobart for example, they must be paid at UK rates. Those employed by Vos, Mammoet, Dentressangle etc will be paid in the countries where those companies are located (some of them have official presence in more than one country).

            Truckers generally earn considerably above the min. wage – it’s a skilled job and an HGV licence isn’t acquired for peanuts. The UK doesn’t accept “self-employed” lorry drivers with very, very few exceptions (HMRC clamped down on that game about 20 years ago) so unless they are driving their own rigs drivers in UK trucks will be employees. I know that something similar applies in Germany and the Netherlands, don’t know about any other countries.

            As for the comment about them not getting out of cabs… it should be ignored. As was pointed out here yesterday; the driver and the truck owner are 100% responsible for the securing of the load as well as for the distribution of weight. It is perfectly possible for a truck which is not over-loaded to have too much weight on a single axle – and it is the driver and haulier who pay the fines, not the bloke driving the forklift truck. Likewise… “They didn’t load me properly” isn’t going to get you out of a mess on a motorway (or a ferry). No driver is ever going to set off without seeing that the load is properly distributed and secured and that whatever locks may be on the vehicle are properly locked. Neither is he ever likely to hand over the keys to those locks (it is generally forbidden to do so), so he’ll have done the unlocking too.

            NB. There’s an enormous amount of stuff still travelling which isn’t palletised – and no, not all the “paperwork” is electronic; though rather more of it is than was the case in my days in the haulage industry the paper delivery note is still very much in evidence.

          6. I can see the difficulties of regulating with regard to workers who cross borders, but I do get quite ‘left-wing’ over issues like this.

          7. I think that I am in some sympathy with you but want to make sure. Could you please amplify your statement?

          8. Sure. Whilst I see that’s it would be difficult to regulate, there’s something fundamentally wrong with people working in this country but being paid less than the minimum wage. One of the reasons I voted Leave was because I don’t think free movement works between countries with significantly different levels of wages (in 2016, the UK min wage was higher than the average wage in half of EU member states) and it would appear that hauliers are able to take advantage of free movement to use cheap workers from eastern Europe.

          9. Then I do have some sympathy for your views. I am not sure that paying foreigners the UK minimum wage would not fall foul of the law of unintended consequences, though. Would it, for example, be so attractive to 3rd world cheap labour that our immigration problem would be exacerbated? I don’t think that it is a simple issue in reality.

          11. Checked the list (My God, how many pages there are!) – can’t see Elsie there
            Edit: Posted an hour ago OK.

          13. Thanks, Issy! Appreciate the thought :-))
            Carers report all OK; she lives on the side of a hill, so (hopefully) any flooding would be limited to water running in the side of the house on it’s way down the hill.

          14. ‘ere, are you querying her gender?

            The confusion may have arisen through one of my earlier posts this morning. I advised her to make longer comments in case she got mistaken for a spammer in the heat of the crossfire.
            Fortunately she came through unscathed.

          16. The scams appeared to stop at around 3AM last night, until then they were pretty regular with the link followed by the thanks / nice site reply at about five minute intervals. I had been tempted to close the thread but was lulled by the quiet period.

            It was weird deleting all of those posts and leaving a polly message unscathed. Coincidence? I am sure that a parrot would invent some link.

          17. The moderate-posts-with-links seems to have slowed them down a bit. But man, there’s pages of banned IDs! You must have been working like a dog…

          19. Place of employment is the key – so even if the truck is registered in eg. Poland, if the employer is in the Netherlands then that is the pay scale which applies.

          21. So good they said it twice…

            That said the figures give food for thought.

            Sauté pour mieux reculer? In this context reculer means to vomit, bring back – an old Beachcomber joke. The original Beachcomber, not the Spike Milligan nonsense.

  82. To all the Mods who have been slicing and dicing the wicked:

    Well done, and many thanks for keeping the blog the wonderful place that it is.

  85. Just back from my daughter’s. Our two granddaughters 7 & 4 checked Santa is indeed on his way. Put out mince pie, carrot & whisky and ensured the fire had not been lit and went to bed without a murmur. Whether they will be asleep when ‘Santa’ arrives with their stockings is another matter!

    Merry Christmas one and all

    1. We used to take a bite out of the carrot, drink the sherry, eat the mince pie and leave chocolate coated raisins on the fire-step.
      When the children went to collect the stockings I used to say that Santa had been and that the reindeer had left deposits.

      I then ate the deposits.

      The children were appalled!

  87. HMS Northumberland forced back to port, because of high number of COVID cases

    Get HMS Victory ready for sea (none of our other ships have working engines)

    The Mary Rose could be made seaworthy faster than ‘our Fleet’

    Passengers on the Gosport and Torpoint Ferries make sure those ships are not Taken Up From Trade

  88. The reporter outside No10 said that the treaty runs to between 1000 and 2000 pages. Well, I suppose it depends on the size of the print. I cannot begin to imagine how many concessions it contains whereby we lie supine beneath an EU boot. If the literally flagship areas have been given away, there must be some real betrayal and treachery buried in the document.

  89. Geoff is the real Father un Christmas for us

    He brings usour presents for 364 days of the year

    1. I think, Tryers that this year it will be
      366 days, [Leap Year and he doesn’t
      have Christmas Day off … he is a glutton
      for punishment.]

  90. I wonder what it must be like to be a citizen of a country, the heritage, culture and traditions of which you loathe and despise. How do such people lead their lives when they treat most of their fellow citizens with contempt and derision?

    I only ask because I have just taken the unusual step of glancing at the Guardian’s news item about the Brexit deal and the comments of some of its readers.

    If only they could all be deported to the EU that they obviously prefer, even though it might not be lefty enough for many of them! However, I have a list of a few other countries that they probably prefer even more, many of which would probably welcome them because so many of their own citizens have risked their lives to escape!

    1. Arrange a population swap.
      Those that like totalitarian, left-wing, regimes can move to North Korea. Those that like self-determination and self-reliance can move to the UK.

    2. The Grauniad is not allowed in the house. I believe that Cook reads it online, but even she has doubts about it….

    1. Apparently the UK won 43%, the EU won 17% and 40% were agreed by both sides – but if that is true, it isn’t something that you would read in the Guardian!.

      1. If it’s true, I feel somewhat happier.

        But if the leaked paper is genuinely trying to sell the deal to Brexiteers it would be presented very differently:

        70:30 in Britain’s favour.

        1. Unlikely, as it adds up to 100 – Fergusson would have got 97.455 first time and re-run his model using the same inputs to get 2,097,145.667 next time!

        2. Unlikely, as it adds up to 100 – Fergusson would have got 97.455 first time and re-run his model using the same inputs to get 2,097,145.667 next time!

    2. My local rag is touting it as a victory for Britain with everything we wanted. Oh yes? I’ll believe that when I see it.

    3. Re-negotiations start on January 2nd. And continue until 2025 (or until we are all dead, whichever is the sooner).

      1. I’m hanging in there out of sheer bloody mindedness.
        The thought of ‘mother going quiet’ should do the trick.

      2. I’m hanging in there out of sheer bloody mindedness.
        The thought of ‘mother going quiet’ should do the trick.

  92. Good night all.

    Smoked salmon with lemon mayonnaise, an excellent ripe Brie, apple crumble with cream, washed down with the 2nd 1/2 of the bottle of Cremant from lunch.

      1. Got Baileys, dark rum, malibu, tassimo discs, and an ounce of the best weed in north london.

        I’ll be fine 😀

      1. We have been listening to Noddy for 40+ years now, and its getting a teeny weeny bit re re re re petitive. Best wishes y’all.

      2. Lol.

        Careful or i’ll pull out the Sir Cliff’s Mistletoe and Wine and give you real nausea on Xmas Eve. 😀

        Have a great Xmas Bob.

    1. It won’t take five years for the EU supertrawlers to turn our fishing waters into a marine desert.

  98. Right, that’s me.
    Mince pie, carrot and flagon of sherry to put out for Santa, then bed.
    If we don’t meet for a day or so, hope all Y’all have a great Christmas!
    Cheersh! :-))

    3. Enjoy your celebrations OB.

      Won’t there be anyone around on here tomorrow to alleviate my boredom, we are all after all , socially distancing so Moh , son and I and dogs are here, whilst no 2 son and partner are in Worthing , nice flat on the seafront .. so far so good.

      There may be a 3rd lockdown before we know it.

      1. We are by ourselves – a fridge full of food and no-one to eat it now except us. How I detest Hancock. A pox upon his soul.

        1. My son lives in Worthing .. five people his age have succumbed to this Chinese plague of the soul , he is in his late forties , and he is pretty stressed out .. We haven’t seen each other for a long while , but we daren’t because Moh is of a delicate disposition , and won’t even go into a shop for longer than ten minutes!

          We should have locked down for longer , the winter will be rather savage sadly , a greater cull than normal.

          2. When you say they’ve succumbed….. you mean they died? Did they have other serious conditions?

            I haven’t seen either of my sons since last Christmas.

      2. I expect I’ll be around at some time, but probably not until I’ve negotiated the Christmas dinner preparations and taken the dog for a walk to work it off.

      4. We’re here -just the two of us and Lily. I’ve got far too much food, especially as he has been feeling peaky all week and not eating much.

        We’ll be nibbling bit and pieces for days I expect.

  99. One thing about this fake “good deal” – it has pissed off Mrs Murrell. And she is not “masking” (geddit) her displeasure…

    1. In that case, we can but hope. Anything that p!sses off the Fishwife could be v.v. good news.
      (Note to self: wot abaht goodwill to all men? Nah, there are limits.)

  100. The Treaty document is not yet on the No10 website, so cannot be downloaded and studied.

  101. Happy Christmas to All!
    Our children won’t be here for Xmas dinner as travel difficulties and a Tier 4 lockdown from Boxing Day made it impractical. We probably will not have the Xmas Pudding, maturing for the last three months. Instead we will keep it untouched for a Fake Xmas Dinner possibly around April when lockdown is over and travel is unrestricted and weather is warmer, hopefully.
    Tomorrow we will put three large cuddly bears in the seats and cheer ourselves that things will be better sometime.
    Best Wishes for the New Year too.

    1. We are sneaking down to your area tomorrow Horace, but don’t tell anyone! Younger daughter and partner have gone down today with the twins, so they’ll all be together in the morning! Wishing you and family a Happy and peaceful Christmas.

  102. From now on, as far as is possible, I will not buy any EUSSR products.

    I certainly will not Tin Tent over there.

    Oz wines, no Irish beef, Lard not Olive Oil. etc

    1. ‘Lard not olive oil.’

      Rape seed oil, Tryers,
      grown in this Country,
      the cold pressed is very good.

    2. What court? I thought the EU had agreed not to allow the ECJ to get involved? At least, that’s what the media are reporting. I guess it will require going through the small print with the proverbial fine-toothed comb, which our MPs probably won’t do – apart from Bill Cash.

  105. That’s me for Christmas Eve! Sending very good wishes to all you lovely Nottlers and thanks for the happy space to vent our spleen! Very Merry Christmas to you all and enjoy the day!

      1. Thank you King Stephen! Hope you are settled and happy in your new home. Merry Christmas again 🎅

        1. Thank you Sue – all being well with all the remedial & building works we should be moved in by Christmas 2021! All the best – Aye!

          6. The vendors describe it as initial settlement when the two storey extension was added 50 years ago. The specs are there for scale. Fortunately having had trial excavations completed the foundations are 1.2 metres deep and according to the structural engineer all that’s needed is for the buildings to be stitched back together using helical stainless steel bars. I think the movement has been caused by poorly maintained gutters over at least the past two and a half years the property has been empty and in all likelihood before that. (The down pipes are merely ornamental). The good news no underpinning is required. Phew!

          8. Would you have bought it if you had known the truth, or did you buy it as a do uppable project..

            Where are you, are you sitting on clay or a beach!

          9. Good question Belle. We had been looking for a property for a year or two in a very small location. Had the extent of the “settlement been known for certain we may have haggled more over the price reduction. It’s a mix of clay and sand. The likelihood as we are on a sloping site is that excess water has washed sand away.

          10. Many properties on clay suffered
            from subsidence after the 1976
            heat-wave, the Company I worked
            for had a specialist Underpinning
            Division, it was inundated with work
            for some years.

          12. The surveyor did and advised seeking a structural engineer’s opinion. The first one we talked to suggested monitoring any movement over a wet and dry season.. not really a practical proposition (given we had already sold our house and moved into temporary accommodation). It wasn’t until I stripped the anaglypta wallpaper that the extent of the settlement was reveal. The crack almost certainly extends down to the ground floor but isn’t visible behind a floor to ceiling kitchen cupboard…

          13. In that case you probably won’t have to have specialist insurance. It’s no joke, believe me, finding insurance if you have a property that has had to be underpinned.

  107. The legal text off the sell-out withdrawal agreement is very long. If only we had a lawyer among us who could explain it to us!

  108. I think it’s about time that we all thanked Geoff Graham for his unstinting and unfailing efforts in keeping the NottlBox running every day for years, even 2020.
    Let’s all hear it for Geoff:
    Happy Christmas!!!

  109. What a complete mountebank Johnson is. Raving about his deal and blathering on about how the UK will prosper now that we are free of the EU. This serial philanderer and liar is in the process, along with Hancock and the other globalists in the cabal, of destroying the SME and self-employed base on which this Country depends for its wealth and GDP. If he believed what he crows about he would end the Tier, aka lockdown system immediately, protect the vulnerable, sack Hancock, Gove, SAGE, NERVTAG et al and then resign. Politics in the UK has become a very dark stain on the life of the nation. Sadly, the supposed Opposition is as compromised as the government. What a shower they are and they presume to try and tell us how to live our lives and behave. Incarceration in the Tower would be fitting before trials at the people’s court.

    3. Best wishes KtK. I heartily agree with your judgement.

      I was thinking heads on spikes on London Bridge rather than incarceration for the rogues you mention.

      1. Thank you, Bill. I will be at our son’s home tomorrow and I am retuning the favour on Boxing Day. If it’s at all possible I wish you, the MR and the two kittens a merry Christmas.

        1. Sending good wishes to you Korky. It will be a difficult time but you will be in my thoughts.

          3. First one up is always very hard, good luck.

            At least you are with one of your children.

            If it comes, weep together and remember the best of times.

          4. It took about three years before the loss of my mother really hit home and then it really hit hard.

            I am with you on your best wishes to korky, remember the good times

          5. I was quite stunned how hard the death of my mother hit me; I’d been away from home since I was eighteen and we had never got on, but even so …

          6. Beginning to understand that myself, Conway.
            Same story, but I was 8 when I went away to school – was always a visitor after that.

  110. My good friend Boris has just emailed me this (sorry if the formatting is a bit odd but Boris doesn’t know how to use email):

    “ This deal fully delivers on what the British public voted for in the referendum and in last year’s General Election, with:

    ✅ No role for the European Court of Justice and no requirement to follow EU law

    ✅ A zero tariff and zero quota arrangement

    ✅ Recognition of the UK’s sovereignty over our fishing waters

    ✅ Britain outside the Single Market and Customs Union

    ✅ Co-operation on law enforcement and emerging security challenges

    ✅ Protections for the UK’s internal market and Northern Ireland’s place within it

    And this deal will allow us to make 2021 the year we show what Global Britain means to the rest of the world: striking trade deals with new markets, reasserting ourselves as a liberal and free trading nation; and acting as a force for good in the world”

      1. As I hope that you realised, my use of the word “friend” was purely rhetorical. Happy Christmas.

        1. 327681+ up ticks,
          Evening Eda,
          Rest assured taken as such, but anyone with the johnson as a friend really does have no need of enemas, stands imo.

          You & family have a nice Christmas & a nicer New Year.

          1. I always distrusted BJ and did not vote for him when the leadership of the Conservative Party was being contested. He betrayed his children, his wife and his colleagues, why would anyone be surprised if he betrayed the country?

          2. 327681+ up ticks,
            Eda,
            Check my back posts, the leadership farce, they ALL played their part leadsom, gove, johnson, & the prior chosen one may.
            She proved herself treacherous in the wretch camerons era, she was a placement along with the 9 month delay that had to be in place to save the day for the remainers, worked to perfection.

      1. I am probably just being a bit thick (I have limitless skill in this) but could you please explain what or who is meant by “jonnock”?

        1. Yes, glad to. It’s an old-fashioned word for genuine, above board, ‘for real’, honest, the done thing, the opposite of ‘not cricket’.

          Hope that helps..

          1. I have never heard that expression before but I suppose that one is never too old to learn something. Have a jonnock Christmas and New Year.

          2. Thanks for the explanation of “jonnock”. I cannot vouch for the truthfulness of content of the email but it is a verbatim extract from an email that I got from Boris (as, no doubt, did tens of thousands of others).

  112. The BTLers on The Grimes are – in the main – livid about the “deal” and keep on and bloody on about the “disaster that is brexit”…. Yawn…

    1. Amongst my SME contacts the feeling equates to a visit to the dentist expecting a root canal and coming away with a slightly unpleasant scale and polish from a cack handed hygienist

      1. I’d like to think so, but I’ll wait until we see the detail (where the devil usually hides).

      2. I’m beginning to think so too, despite the patently biased outpourings from some members of this forum.

        1. Looking at his and his Government’s “achievements” since becoming a PM with an overwhelming commons majority, I am as biased against him as the rest of them here.

          My only glimmer of hope is that “the enemy” in the UK appears to be thoroughly pissed off.

    2. He really was wittering. He was trying so hard to sound Churchillian; it sounded like the mouse that roared.

  115. Goodnight all – it’s nearly Christmas Day.

    Now the night shift is here I’ll go to bed.

    Happy Christmas all!

  117. Why is fishing important in Brexit trade talks?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558

    The EU wants the UK to grant significant access, with only gradual change envisaged, in order to “avoid economic dislocation for EU fishermen that have traditionally fished in UK waters”.

    Just let that sink in…

    3. It occurs to me that it may well take 5 years to rebuild the fishing fleet to it’s former strength and find enough hardy souls to to undertake one of the most onerous and dangerous forms of employment I can envisage.

          2. As it is Christmas Eve, Conwy, I as trying to be optimistic. In reality, I share your pessimism.

          3. I think all my optimism has been beaten out of me by this shower in Westminster. Everything I looked forward to has been trashed at their bidding 🙁 No church, no hunting, no meals out, no escape. May they burn in hell in perpetuity! Dies irae, dies illa calamitatis et miseriae.

    4. Whereas we want to have our fishing grounds back to restore our fishing industry and manage the fish stocks. The EU can eff off.

      1. 327681+ up ticks,
        Afternoon C,
        Did you study the classics, definitely a touch of the old shakys in your comment.

        1. Civis Britannicus sum (I could never understand why Palmerston said Civis Romanus sum – and my history teacher thought I was taking the Mick when I asked why he did), ogga.

    5. In the same way that a great many of our fishermen faced loss of livelihood & bankruptcy.

      1. Well, cutting the boats into pieces in 1983 and 1993 stopped them fishing. Boat gone, family business gone, family tradition gone and no other jobs locally. Now ask the question as to why Fraserburgh and Peterhead have the worst drug problems in Europe.

  119. Goodnight everyone, sleep tight, and here’s wishing you all as Merry a Christmas as you wish yourselves. If you don’t hear from Alf or me on Boxing Day onwards you’ll know we’ve been carted off to the nick for contravening the “no fraternisation/travel rules”!

    Geoff it’s been a joy and a lifesaver so many thanks for having us, have a peaceful Christmas and a Happier New Year.

        1. Tesco do a cheeky Oz Shiraz at £5. I don’t like beans or Brussel’s sprouts; I suggest smoked salmon with scrambled eggs …

          1. Lidl do a very drinkable Ozzie Shiraz for £3.99. I’ve stocked up on Sarf Effikan Shiraz Cabernet Sauvignon – it’s currently on offer at £3.86.

      1. I like sprouts these days, they are sweeter and so tasty compared to the sprouts years ago , a little bit of butter and black pepper , makes them even tastier .

        1. Cooked but still crisp and gently sautéed off to finish, in a little butter with a few smoked bacon allumettes. wonderful.

          1. Sounds good, sos. I had a few bog-standard boiled sprouts last night, which were fine. Tomorrow, Xmas dinner is due to be delivered to my lonely doorstep in the style of a Red Cross food parcel. But I’ve a chicken lined up for Boxing Day, plus various trimmings (a turkey would be overkill), and I might experiment with the Freedom Sprouts…

          2. If you’re on your own next year, Heaven forfend, you might consider a very fatty duck breast. pierce the skin, cooked over the non sprout vegetables for the duck fat to roast them.

            Cranberry, orange rind (cut in very thin strips) and brandy sauce.

          5. The fruits on sale here, this year, are the largest I have ever seen. I would guess they are twice the volume of a normal year.

          7. The last lot I had weren’t crunchy at all – the seeds. I was pleasantly surprised.

            Somebody once made me a tagine into which they had the entire contents of a pomegranate, leathery partitions & all. Can you imagine how bad that was?

          8. Very strange; because it’s easy to extract the seed and separate out the “leather”.

            Just cut the fruit in two and bash the outsides of the halves with a wooden spoon, over a bowl; the seeds drop out and the odd bits of pith are easily removed. Then turn the half inside out to remove the few remaining kernels.

  121. So all this “will they, won’t they?” “deal or no deal?” bollocks was just that – bollocks. The negotiations continued until they were completed.

    1. I suspect all that has happened is that they’ve agreed on what the next stages of the negotiations are all about.

      If the deal really is any good for Britain you can guarantee one or more of the 27 will veto it.

    2. You mean, “The negotiations continued until they were completed.we had capitulated”, don’t you?

  122. Just to cheer you all up; I was bringing MOH a cup of warm, sugary milk as a nightcap just now and put it on the stairs while I closed the door from the hall. I expect you can guess what’s coming now – the aged hound, who I thought was asleep upstairs, decided he was missing out and tried to come downstairs. Unfortunately, he missed his footing and fell the last few feet, knocking the mug of milk over everywhere and smashing the cup to smithereens 🙁 The one good thing of this episode was that the dog wasn’t hurt, despite the fall and the sharp shards of the broken mug. Think positive, Conway! But, wait! There’s more. I have just sat down to read my emails and received one from my Aussie friend who is the last link between me and the friend who committed suicide. It seems her cancer is terminal and there is nothing more they can do. To say I am upset is an understatement. What a dreadful, diabolical year 🙁

    2. I am so sorry to hear this, what a terrible year this has been. You are not alone, Conway. I have been quiet here for the last few days because I have two friends who are a) undergoing bereavement (non-covid related) and b) unexpected illnesses. I mention this only so that you feel not so alone, it is happening to others as well. Sometimes one feels specially selected by the Universe to be the lightening conductor for all the bad stuff which us whirling around. What a year 2020 has been. May 2021 be a better year for you.

      1. I am sorry to hear that, pm. It is a very difficult time to have to cope with bereavement. One of my friends lost her mother this time last year and it hit her very hard. I am sure I am not alone, but it’s just been one thing after another this year and it’s all starting to get on top of me now. I just need a break from misery, doom and gloom.

    4. Oh Conway! There’s never a good time but it must seem worse after the ghastly time you’ve had. Keep your chin up and we’re here to listen. Have a peaceful Christmas.

    3. I would be delighted.

      A few names I would suggest for immediate EU citizenship:

      Alibaba Bonkers Brown

      Jabez Balfour

      Keith Vaz

      Tony Blair

      Sadik Khan

      Shamina Begum

      You may add more if you wish……………….

  127. 327681+ up ticks,
    What is / was expected of these negotiations between peoples that have worked together for years one side submissively / happily rubber stamping the other sides demands.

    All the while what is an undeniable fact is that the man who had a credible
    route to the exit, he put in book form in 2014 ” Road to freedom” was castigated along with colleagues as a far right racist / racists.

    All the while a multitude of those doing the castigating were using a terrorist
    instruction manual in parliament for oath taking, and the writing of
    parliamentary canteen menus, and receiving ovis support all the way.

  128. Is ”the deal” a stitch up ?

    Perhaps. Here’s inital analysis in thick fog. The ECJ will go… to be replaced with ECJ-2 nobody knows anything about.

    Is competition allowed. Yes, provided there is no competition, but if there is, the UK goes to ECJ-2 to receive tarrifs.

    Fishing. The deal is for the UK to regain 25% of the fish EU states catch in British waters at the rate of………….:

    1st Year: 15%
    2nd Year:2.5%
    3rd Year:2.5%
    4th Year:2.5%
    5th Year:2.5%

    At the end of those 5 years the UK can end the right for the EU to catch fish in UK waters. Just as could happen now, so will it actually happen?

    Very unlikely, otherwise the French close the tunnnel and ports.

    Will the French and Spanish cheat and catch as much fish as possible thereby totally depleting stocks so the UK gets an extra 25% of nothing?

    Yes. Nobody will stop them.

    Note how the story has broken on Christmas Eve, During lockdown and with very little information. To be rushed through parliament likely in one day.

    More to come.

    1. Maybe it’s flexible enough for us to ignore the pressures of the EU and tell them to naff off when it suits us. It gives both sides breathing room and a chance to show that each side appears to ‘win’. Does China have an ECJ 2, nope thought not, but maybe its something we will ignore like the French have ignored the existing court rulings.

      1. Are we looking in the right direction anyway ?

        The Davos billionaires run everyting now which is why Mr Johnson and Mr Hancock suck up to them.

        Brexit is probably why the UK has been selected to receive the ”benefits” of Net Zero, Build Back Better and Great Reset long before any other state.

        So the billionaires pull the real strings just as they have for so long.

        Energy policy is where they are going to break the UK.

        1. Energy will be the front line of the next war, especially if everyone’s heating and transport is dependent upon it.
          There has already been malware discovered (but not activated) that bore all the hallmarks of coming from a nation state and targeted at utilities.

    2. 327681+up ticks,
      Evening PP,
      Masters of treachery, the nose cone of the semi re-entry rocket has landed.

      Seemingly just enough to have the supporting ovis cling on to the three monkey mode of voting.
      A sprat to catch a mackerel, neither of them fully ours.

      Total severance was the only true way to go.

      The main difference between these pretendee tory’s and
      hitlers mob is, as the song goes, hitlers mob had some balls betwixt them whereas these pretenders have hocked theirs to brussels.

    1. Well done MM.

      Savour and remember .

      A doctor pal reminded us to remember where we thought we were every 2 weeks ..

      This the way this thing grabs us.!

    1. Bob – thanks for this. I’ve just worked out how to send the laptop to the TV soundbar via Bluetooth, and this is gorgeous. Happy Christmas to you and yours…

  132. Sausage rolls made, mince pies done, kitchen tidy, glass of wine at hand, all that remains is for me to wish everyone on this site, a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

    2. happy Christmas Jill.

      I trust that they are real English style sausage rolls and not the Canadian yahoo version made with hot dogs.

      Enjoy the snow, it is raining here.

      1. Of course they are English style sausage rolls!! I buy locally produced, loose pork sausage meat, add a little sage and no filler. I no longer have the patience to make the puff pastry so I buy frozen. We may or may not have snow tomorrow, it is still quite mild and heavy rain today so we shall see. Y’all have a Merry Christmas, y’hear!!

    4. What is Christmas like in America , will your church bells ring out , is it snowing ?

      Are you all socially distancing as well?

      Merry Christmas to you both .

      1. Thanks T_B, Christmas is pretty much the same as UK except no Boxing Day tradition. We do not have snow at the moment, we had about 8inches a week ago and what was left is slowly melting today under a deluge of rain. About to turn very cold and windy overnight with a few snow showers possible tomorrow.

        We are socially distancing, so no family visiting tomorrow (daughter and family are all out of state and would need to isolate after visiting here in West Virginia) We shall certainly make up for it whenever it is safe to do so. Merry Christmas to you and yours.

        1. Thank you Jill,

          I didn’t mean to so so brief and crisp.

          I don’t think there will be any Boxing day traditions here in the UK this year either .. Everything feels so flat .

          Take care in the cold and the wind.

          Down here in these Dorsetty parts , the weather has been variable , pretty mild and wet, but today has been cold , clear with a sharp wind , but the visibility has been fantastic , clear for miles and miles .

          Chilly evening tonight so we have lit a coal fire!!! there aren’t many homes with coal fires any more , all the old bungalows with huge gardens were pulled down and the ground was developed , accommodating a quite a few luxury house, chimneys are there for cosmetic purposes!

          The evening is chilly and we can hear the early lambs baaing when we step outside .

          Enjoy your day together. x

          1. No Boxing Day traditions at all, T_B. Hunting stopped for the foreseeable future due to government regulations, churches cancelling services, restaurants shut down. What’s left? Going for a walk, I suppose.

  133. That’s me for this curious Christmas Eve. I have never felt less Christmassy.

    I hope that any of you who wish to go to Midnight Mass (if such a thing still happens) can get there and home safely (and that Our Susan has her hotel sorted). Fulmodeston is having an actual (half)* Communion tomorrow at 10.30.

    Enjoy the rest of the day, despite the weather and the sell out.

    A demain.

    * No wine.

    1. Merry Christmas, Bill. It feels like a wartime Christmas – no cheer, no family and you never know if you’re going to be here the next day.

    6. It starts as wine, but becomes the Blood of Christ. Many years ago I lost that argument with a curate who is now a retired Canon, possibly living on the Isle of Man.
      Anyway, when you look at the profound interference with our lives, I reckon that the CCP is already secretly in control.
      If I can summon up the energy to wind up the old computer, I’ll send you a sleepy cat picture.

  135. Better late than never. Her majesty just presented me with a gin advent calendar. Must dash if I am to open the last door on the 24th.

    Then you can send in the spammers, I will be ready for another bout of delete and banish!

    Happy Christmas everyone, may your brexit be acceptable to most, may the US election force them to rework their broken system and may we venture outside without worry.

    Ugh, this violet gin is disgusting. Next!

      1. Yep , not recommended. Did you have those little violet flavoured sweets when you were young? It tastes just like that.

        Onto a plain gin now

  138. Off for final few pints at the local before we fall from grace and descend into the Stygian depths of Tier 2 here in Cornwall. The pub does not do food at present.

  139. On the one hand:

    Vindication at last for a PM willing to take talks down to the wire
    Deadline extensions were a strategic disaster under Mrs May. Whatever the detail of his deal, Boris deserves credit for refusing to blink
    STEWART JACKSON
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/24/vindication-last-pm-willing-take-talks-wire/

    On the other:

    Boris’s pre-Christmas dash smells of desperation and betrayal
    The deadline leaves little time to scrutinise the framework that will determine the extent of the UK’s independence for decades to come
    ALEXANDRA PHILLIPS
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/12/24/boriss-pre-christmas-dash-smells-desperation-betrayal/

    1. IMHO, Boris has ‘won’ the Brexit Marathon; President Ursula Gertrud von der Leyen was gracious in ‘defeat’ …

    2. I’d need to spend time studying the finalised deal when it’s been published but it all smells of betrayal if you ask me right now.

      1. You’ll need to spend more time studying it than the three days that parliament will get.

    3. IMHO, Boris has ‘won’ the Brexit Marathon; President Ursula Gertrud von der Leyen was gracious in ‘defeat’ …

  140. Well let us forget treachery and stupidity, and read something amusing.
    A short while ago there were various suggestions of books to read for amusement. I will suggest a couple more where the titles suggest firstly politicians, and secondly the wise folk who post on here.
    “A Confederacy of Dunces” by John Kennedy Toole, and “That Old Gang of Mine” by Leslie Thomas

    1. Maggie, my take on things is that if we had said “No fishing in our waters” that would have been impossible to enforce and would have resulted in the French torpedoing any possible deal. In five and a half years – and with the billions in aid promised by Boris – we can at least begin to build up our fishing boats, fish processing plants, and fishery protection vessels. Have a large glass of something and enjoy Christmas as best you can.

      1. Ah Elsie , you are a breath of fresh air .

        I rarely drink , so I shall sniff the crisp frosty evening air. I really want to go and look at the Christmas lights at Corfe Castle , they are usually very pretty , and it is dark sky land on the way there . I cannot persuade Moh, he hates the cold , I would drive there on my own , but as I said , it is a very dark journey, only about 10 miles!

    3. The quotas will still be in place.

      Seize the first one that looks to be exceeding its allowance, confiscate the catch, fine them for here to penury and back and confiscate the boat.

      It’ll only need to happen once.

  142. May I wish my fellow Nottlers a Merry Christmas and healthy New Year.
    It has been a funny old year and even now drawing to a close, it still decides to give me a kick in the backside. My youngest has been confirmed with the virus and as she called in to see us 24hrs before showing any symptoms we have to self isolate for 10 days.
    The good news is she appears to be getting over the worse of it, and myself and Mrs VVOF have completed 4 days out of 10 with no signs (yet!) of it. We are making the best of it as we know many are in a far worse set of circumstances than us. Nevertheless I am afraid there is a distinct lack of Christmas spirit about us this year, which may well extend to next year if the buffoon is shown to have sold us down the river.

    1. What a bummer, VVOF. Hope it’s merely inconvenient… we laid in plenty Christmas spirit, so that at least isn’t a problem.
      Have a happy, if muted, Christmas.

      1. Thanks Obs, worse things happen at sea so they say. Like yourself I have plenty of the liquid form of Christmas spirit to help us get through it.

    3. Bad luck old fella. But I thought you only were supposed to self isolate for 5 days now? That may well be totally wrong as I’ve given up trying to keep abreast of all these damned stupid rules and regs. In fact haven’t kept up with them at all – neighbours are only too keen to pass on the bad news. Alf and I just ignore it all.

      1. I read a Gov web page which stated 10 days so I presume that is the current thinking. I will check tomorrow, thanks.

    4. We were just talking with our neighbour. Her daughter and son in law both caught covid a few weeks ago, they are young and have recovered after nothing worse than a serious cold. It may not be the non event that some round here would suggest but it is not a death sentence.

      1. It may not be the non event that some round here would suggest but it is not always a death sentence.

        It has been for far too many Richard, and by no means all of them were old or ill beforehand.

          1. Quite. I’ve been known to do that myself on occasions.

            But as I’d just been looking at the card sent by the friend who was on a ventilator for 17 days with the damn thing (and he’s more than 5 years younger than I am) I wasn’t feeling like downplaying.

            Sorry.

      2. I think there are more cases this time round, certainly in my neck of the woods. The old and vulnerable with underlying health problems has already been victims so the young are fighting it off better.

        1. Same here. More cases than in the spring, but fewer deaths.
          In the spring, my daughter was working in a hospital where a lot of elderly people were recovering from operations (so, in a slightly weakened state already). The coronavirus ripped through the place, a lot of patients and staff had it – but nobody died, even an old lady in her nineties.
          It can be very bad, but is not an automatic death sentence as the doom and gloom-mongers would have you believe.

          1. But consider how they are defining “cases” and including people who test positive, yet have no symptoms of the disease.

          2. I just know more people who are getting ill, and it’s said to be corona, that’s all. Mind you, there is another bug going round where I live as well.
            You have a fever and an upset tummy, and it lasts for about ten days, but isn’t corona apparently.

    5. What a rotten turn of events vvof. Best wishes to you and all the family. Things must get better soon! KBO!

    6. Evening vvof – My 52 year old teacher son comes out of a positive Covid isolation at midnight but is in a tier 4 area so he won’t be coming up to North Yorkshire this festive season. He had minor symptoms.

    7. My sister tested positive 2 weeks ago and was poorly in bed, but my 87 yo father who lives with her has shown no symptoms. It moves in mysterious ways. I think most cases show themselves in 5 days, so good luck.

    1. Lotl popped in this evening to wish us a happy one.

      It’s a shame we don’t see old friends Steve the Beard and Gavin any more.

  144. I am so used to being lied to and let down by politicians that it is extremely hard to give them the benefit of the doubt. But it did sound like Johnson has gone for the Canada-style ‘just a trade agreement, no politics’ agreement that David Davis/Steve Baker were working on in those halcyon pre-Chequers days. Could it be that, after all the sound and fury, we have quietly held our nerve and gotten a decent deal? Pinch me, I must be dreaming!

    The devil is obviously in the detail, and I will await the verdict of Martin Howe and Bill Cash. But I have to say that the press conference contained a hint of the old Boris – full of vim and vigour and telling the odious Peston where to get off. Will we be pleasantly surprised? Time will tell…

    1. I’m with you JK! I think he has held his nerve (and two fingers up to the basturds!) Merry Christmas and KBO!

      1. And to you Sue and all Nottlers! to Let’s hope that we are all pleasantly surprised and this time Brexit really does mean Brexit!

      1. Snow (four inches of it) is forecast for here next week according to my fellow dog-walker who is always au fait with the latest weather forecast.

  145. Just checked in after a post-lunch snooze which ended up as a four-hour-long sleep. Glad that some sort of treaty has been finally signed by both the UK and the EU. It may not be perfect but, as Nigel Farage has commented, it is progress of sorts and the war is at last over. Some on here still think it is a sell-out, others are more hopeful; time will tell. At least to my mind, Boris’ negotiations knock the wretched Theresa’s into a cocked hat. I will say no more, except to wish each and every NoTTLer a very happy Christmas and a peaceful and prosperous New Year. I may take a few weeks’ sabbatical from this site or maybe not. One thing is certain: even if I don’t comment I shall pop in from time to time and read your posts. Keep well and see the good in all people and all events. Now for a short dose of Uncle Bill’s anaesthetic!

    1. Well said, Elsie B; i wish you and yours a Merry Christmas and a jolly and ‘near normal’ New Year !

    2. Merry Christmas Elsie,

      Now to try some marmalade on pate as recommended by peddy. Our home made marmalade may not be up to your lofty standards but the taste combo appeals.

      Actually it is not even home made, my wife is one of the pickle ladies who spend the whole year making jams, pickles and stuff for sale at the hospital fundraiser. The group made the marmalade back in Seville orange season.

  146. How do the Daily Telegraph journos know Boros’ deal is so wonderful when nobody has seen or read the 2000 page document ?

    Ummmm……..

    Oh, because Boros told them it is.

  147. An early good morning and a Merry Christmas to all from a cold, Frosty Derbyshire.
    -4C on the yard thermometer.

  148. Merry Christmas everyone from a Saxon Queen with axe and longbow.
    God’s blessings and a happy new year .

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