977 thoughts on “Thursday 17th October: Too many in Westminster still misinterpret the Brexiteers’ ethos”

  1. It’s down to the wire – and Boris only has one chance to survive. Rod Liddle. 19 October 2019.

    The Prime Minister could claim this would respect the letter of the Benn Act, if not, um, entirely the spirit. Having done this, Boris should then proceed to a no-deal Brexit — or what the BBC refers to as a ‘crash-out-and-burn-in-the-fieriest-pit-of-hell Brexit’ — with a brutality that would have made Marshal Zhukov blanch. It is just about the only way I can see of a) getting a clean Brexit and b) minimising the risk of the scenario I still think is easily the most likely denouement to this whole charade — to wake up one dank morning in late November, with sodden leaves and a sun the colour of stale egg yolk, to find that Old Man Steptoe and his retinue of imbeciles are now governing the country, propped up by the jabbering, dwarfish, thin-lipped Picts and the Liberal ‘Democrats’ (sic).

    Morning everyone. Here is Rod in analytical mode as opposed to his more jocular style. It is difficult to disagree with its details but we must hope for a different conclusion to that which he forecasts but which one suspects might well prove to be accurate.

    I’m sorry if all this depresses you. Perhaps I’m wrong and Boris will be swept home to victory by a grateful public who recognise that he did the best he could, which is what Boris’s team (if not Conservative Central Office) thinks will happen. You cleave to that belief if you want to. Me? I see only darkness and despair, and the looming spectre of John McDonnell.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/its-down-to-the-wire-and-boris-only-has-one-chance-to-survive/

    1. I think Boris is just playing the game of kicking it down the road for another three years of obfuscation while our domestic politicians fall off a cliff edge just like has happened in every other EU country that votes against the wishes of the EU

      1. Morning Bob. You may be right but they will have to go to the country eventually and Rod may very well be proved right even if delayed!

        1. Should that be the end result, I may have to emigrate to join family in Canada – (DiL is Canadian) they have looked into this and apparently we could do so.

    1. I do not want nor need any more rain. It’s forecast for late afternoon and I can live with that but not any earlier.

  4. Good morning all.

    Nice clear sky – it’s gonna be a good day for speaking German.

  5. Breaking from LBC: DUP have just announced that they cannot support several elements of Johnson’s “deal”. Back to the drawing board?

      1. Last night on the 6pm BBC news Katya Adler stated from Brussels that Mrs May had signed an agreement with the EU.

        For many months the MSM has been insistent that Mrs May had never signed anything.

        Is the MSM lying, or is Katya Adler lying?

          2. Her first lie was, “Brexit means Brexit”.

            The MPs may not have known but we all did very soon after she took over.

        2. I suspect neither The only definite truth is that we voted for a clean break from the EU on 2016.

        3. I think that she ‘signed off’ her “deal” i.e. agreed to put it forward to Parliament for ratification. That’s not the same as it becoming law. It was rejected, rightly, three times. However, there are suspicions that she has signed away our military and intelligence services. Her work on those projects was kept very hush-hush.

          1. She signed us into PESCO as far as I know. Involvement in the rest was probably contingent on her WA surrender treaty being passed.

      2. Does anyone outside of his group know what Johnson is planning? The other day Rees-Mogg admitted he didn’t know much of the detail. Is this negotiation a ruse? Has he planned to go WTO and applied misdirection to throw the Remainers off the scent of freedom?

        1. Parliament has never been a particularly decent place, but currently it makes a nest of vipers seem like a restful berth, filled with honourable occupants.
          In Bozza’s place, I would keep my cards very close to my chest; particularly when surrounded by family members.

        2. Loose lips sink ships – or in this case, the possibility of really escaping the evil empire.

    3. From what information there is Boris’s deal seems to be an acceptable solution. It is not as many are sayng Mays’ deal. May’s deal; kept us in the single market and customs union for an undefined period of time and was dependent on the EU. That is not the case with Boris’s deal that takes us out of the Single Market & Customs union. It is unclear at present as to whether there is a transition period it appears not but who knows ?

      The contentious issue remaining is NI. The current proposal is NI can choose to temporally opt back into the custom union. The NI Assembly would make that call

      The issue that leaves is the NI land border. Whatever approach you use that is something that has to be resolved even No Deal does not resolve that issue

      If NI opts into the customs union it means goods can flow freely across the land border which meets the key requirement of NI & Ireland. The remaining problem is Mainland UK is outside of the customs union. This is where wee get reference to a border down the middle of the Irish sea. Calling it a border is tends to make it contentious. It is not really a border but just a Tax point. Goods going from Mainland to UK to NI will have to have EU external county tariffs applied and good going from NI to mainland UK would have to have tariffs applied

      When we get onto trade talks the need to apply these tariffs may go if we secure a trade deal with the EU. THe only issue left then is regulatory compliance. WE could probably meet that by supplying a signed declaration of conformity meaning we had legally declared the goods complied with the relevant EU legislation

    4. The DUP are just trying to screw even more money out of the English taxpayer. Par for the course.

      ‘Morning, Korky.

      1. Just heard that the DUP fear that a few years down the line Sinn Fein could be in a position to control the mechanism that this deal would create for NI. If true one cannot blame them for having doubts.
        This rushed “deal” worries me as it is so easy to miss a detail that could damage the Country. Dealing with the corrupt control freaks in Brussels only exacerbates those worries.

        Good morning to you.

        1. Good morning, Korky, and all NoTTLers. Elsie here, rested and relaxed after a week away.

          I have two things to say: First of all, may I remind you all that we are now just two weeks away from what I hope will be (and what many on here are convinced will not be) our leaving the corrupt EU. How will Boris achieve this? I have no idea, but am hoping against hope for the best.

          Secondly, can anyone enlighten me about the Queen’s Speech, or rather the subsequent debate about it in Parliament? Before I went away, the talk was that the Remainers would be faced with the dilemma of either voting to adopt it, i.e. support the Government, or voting against it which would trigger an election (which they are opposed to). What happened? As soon as The Queen’s Speech was given, all the MSM’s attention turned to the Bulgaria v England football match and/or Syria.

    5. Morning Korky. I regard this “will they – won’t they” stuff as an attempt to increase support for any solution.”

  6. BBC under fire as 1.7 million pensioners will feel squeeze of TV licence cut. 16 OCTOBER 2019.

    MPs attacked the BBC last night as official data revealed the loss of free TV licences for the over-75s will mean 1.7 million pensioners will see their living standard fall next year.

    They accused the broadcaster of “an incredible act of social injustice” by slashing free licences, which will negate the benefits of the state pension and eat away at their earnings.

    These are crocodile tears. There is no faction, let alone Party, in Parliament advocating getting rid of the BBC because it serves their purpose as a Cultural Marxist icon and propaganda conduit to the public.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/16/bbc-fire-17-million-pensioners-will-feel-squeeze-tv-licence/

    1. Morning, Minty.

      I really do not understand what all the fuss is about. Pensioners don’t suddenly become poor when they reach 75. Their pension(s) continue as before, so why should they be entitled to relief from a licence fee? Unless receiving some other bennies, of course.

      1. THese things were introduced because the UK state pension is so low. IT is abouy the lowest in Europe. I think Greece come at the bottom and UK is second from the bottom

      2. Presumably because older people are more likely to become ill or infirm and be subject to increased health related costs.

        1. That would prolly (© Biull) come under ‘other bennies’, but the majority reaching age 75 are still in rude health.

          It shouldn’t be a case of ‘more likely’, but ‘if’.

      3. Morning Peddy. This is just a cynical attempt to gain Brownie points without actually selling any Brownies!

  7. Just popped in for a bit of sanity.

    I’m trying to do something on a computer and tablet but can’t. A search reveals I’m not the only one. It also reveals the complexity of modern-day computing across different devices and how the industry seems unable to simplify things or to have common standards.

    Seeing the complexities of us leaving the EU, I wonder whether my simple mind has outlived its usefulness and that I should be seeing things in a far more complex way than I do.

    In a nutshell – why are simple things made so complicated by those who rule our lives?

    2. It’s only made complicated by those who don’t understand. Most things are actually quite simple.

      1. Morning Ob.

        For three years our rulers have been ****ing about with what should have been a straightforward process and yet here we are, at a minute to midnight, still without a solution.

        If and when we leave, there needs to be a big shake up at the top.

        1. Agreed, Eddy, but you are preaching to the converted here. As you say in your earlier post, you “just popped in [here] for a bit of sanity”.

          1. Hello Elsie.

            In this crazy world of ours, it’s nice to be in the company of like-minded folk now and again – far from the madding crowd and all that.

      1. Morning OLT.

        I’ve had a syncing feeling all morning.

        The problem is getting hyperlinks in a PDF document to work on a tablet (as they do on a desktop or laptop). A simple task, I’d have thought, but it doesn’t seem to have a simple solution.

        It could well be that I’m the problem. In which case, my solution is to jump in my legs, walk into town, have a full English and do a bit of shopping. If that doesn’t clear my head, nothing will.

        1. I sympathise, Eddy.

          I bought a tablet about two years ago and it is attracting dust in a cupboard somewhere – bluddy useless tool. Back to my pair of laptops and external hard drives, for sanity’s sake.

          Stay with the pukka ‘pooter and have a Good Day.

          1. Thanks NTN.

            My tablet is five years old and has hardly been used.

            My head cleared on my way back from town and I intend doing what your last sentence says.

            I suspect that once people are over the novelty of smart phones and tablets and fed up with their limitations, they’ll drift to laptops and desktops.

          3. Thanks NTN.

            My tablet is five years old and has hardly been used.

            My head cleared on my way back from town and I intend doing what your last sentence says.

            I suspect that once people are over the novelty of smart phones and tablets and fed up with their limitations, they’ll drift to laptops and desktops.

  8. DLR and Jubilee Line chaos: London tube hell after Extinction Rebellion rush-hour protest

    Where are the police. The DLR was an obvious target for these anarchists particular as it is a highly automated line and has few staff

    1. I’m sure that Cressida will send the Police to protect the XR from the irate public.

      PS: Has anyone else noticed how politicised the Police are becoming nowadays?

      1. Has anyone noticed how politicised the Police are becoming nowadays?

        Yes. It’s actually an infant KGB!

    1. Anarchy and violence on the tube, the DUP hitting Johnson below the belt and rain forecast for later. A mixed bag day from where I’m sitting but I appreciate your sentiment.

  10. Ferrari just announced that commuters are attacking the XR demonstrators at a tube station. A group of irate workers dragged a demonstrator from the roof of a train and other XR members tried to intervene. Always on the cards that people would only take so much of this nonsense. Khan, Dick and Patel need to understand that people need to be able to go about their business unhindered by the goons of XR.

    4. Comically, Khan is still supporting the protestors. His job is to ensure London functions, not to promote idiotic backward protests that would do the exact opposite of his job.

    7. Serves them right! Without ‘police protection’ for them to hide behind, it will now be more widely seen how totally out of step with reality these idiots are.

  11. Morning all

    SIR – Lord Hague seems to misconceive the motivations and aspirations of the Leave-voting majority.

    We were not voting to “defend the formidable power of our sovereign Parliament”, especially when that Parliament is already so obviously unrepresentative of our views. We voted to restore the sovereign power of the British people over its lawmakers, so that they were fully accountable to us.

    Now we see that power being snatched away from us again by MPs so they can hand it back to Brussels. We did not vote for a Brexit in name only; nor, despite the claims of many Remainers, did we vote for Brexit only so long as it was contingent on a “deal”. Above all, we did not vote to see our Parliament arrogate to itself even more powers, merely to be able to ignore or otherwise subvert the clear instruction we gave it in the 2016 referendum.

    Nigel Henson
    Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

    SIR – If Boris Johnson achieves Brexit on October 31, there will be 17.4 million grateful voters. But with their objective realised, they may not feel the need to back him in a subsequent general election.

    Gratitude is no guarantee of a vote, as Winston Churchill discovered for himself in 1945.

    John Curran
    Bristol

    1. SIR – Michael Deacon’s analogy comparing British politics to an Eighties family lost on a road trip (Sketch, October 16) is almost right.

      In a Brexit context it would be the Leave-backing parents in the front seat trying to get to their destination, while the Remainer children in the back seat cause as much disruption as possible.

      John Henesy
      Maidenhead, Berkshire

    2. While I agree with the sentiment about 1945, the Brexit Party will have lost its sole raison d’être and thus one of Boris’ opponents will have been neutralised.

  12. Morning again

    SIR – Turkey’s foolish invasion of Syria, in pursuit of the Kurds, has now brought them into contact with the Syrian army. Hence, we have a Nato country in military confrontation with a country backed by Russia and Iran.

    While President Donald Trump was trying to keep the US out of other people’s wars, the withdrawal of his small US border- monitoring force has potentially created a flashpoint, with global consequences. Yet again we have a Western politician making decisions that would never pass muster at any Western military staff college.

    There is something seriously wrong with our democratic system when strategically illiterate politicians put our global security in peril.

    Group Captain D R E Evans (retd)

    1. The retired Group Captain needs to catch up.
      This is not a democratic country. Most MPs have as much power as Duma representatives applauding Stalin.

    2. Yes, we noticed that.
      Turkey became a member of NATO so that the US could have air bases there as part of a ring of steel around the Soviet Union.
      Turkey should have been dumped out of NATO when the Soviet Union came apart.

  13. SIR – Gail Bradbrook, co-founder of Extinction Rebellion, was arrested on Tuesday for using a hammer and screwdriver to damage a very large piece of plate glass at the Department for of Transport building in London (report, October 16). She made a number of holes before she was stopped.

    Plate glass in large sizes uses a great deal of energy in its production and delivery. A new piece will now have to be made, probably paid for by the taxpayer. The problem with Extinction Rebellion is that it is big on action, but not as sound on the consequences.

    Mark Robbins
    Bruton, Somerset

    2. I posted a warning this morning about this letter on yesterday’s site. There was a video of the lady, who should have known better, hammering holes in the window, I went on to the next letter but I heard another video being played. It was of Halal being carried out on sheep in a sickening fashion and it is not for the faint hearted. There appeared to be no Veterinary official in attendance but I think the slaughter line should have been closed down if in the UK.

    3. She could afford to go off on a £,500 holiday so I am sure she can afford to pay for the damaged glass and its removal and replacement so the costs of that plus a £1000 fine payment of police and court costs and a ban from Central London for 12 months should do

  14. Apparently the DUP have said NO to Boris’ balmy double customs plan… which is the reason for the hold up.

    Brits should always have had direct rule from Arlene for their own protection.

    1. It is not though double customs plan hat sounds like BBC Spin

      Because of what is currently being proposed NI remains temporarily in the customs union in order to avoid a hard land border.and the UK is not in the Customs union it means that the Mainland UK is external country so goods going from the UK to NI will have yo have EU tariffs levied on them and the same going the other way

    1. Wonder if those visiting him in hospital realise what a dangerous game is being played.

  16. Would we surrender Surrey, Kent, Cornwall or Yorkshire to the EU in order to get the softest of Brexits, then why would it be right to surrender Northern Ireland?
    ps Maybe we would if it was Yorkshire.

    2. It is though not a soft Brexit. What makes you think it is ? NI comes out of the EU as well except it will temporarily opt back into the Customs Union until alternative technology can be put in place. NI though will have the power to cease this arrangement at any time

      1. Are Brits at the mercy of the EU during a transition period as they were with Treasa’s WA ?

      2. What makes me think it is?
        A lifetime of experience, being conned by LibLabCon Europhile politicians, why would they change now.

        1. So you do not know? None of us do until we see the legal document. The info at present indicates it not a soft Brexit

          1. I know what I know and I know that you know what I know and I know that you know that I know what I know.

          10. It has to be gone over with a fine tooth comb and published in full with all the snares and traps highlighted and explained.

      3. The only rational Brexit is one pushing back to WTO rules. The EU simply won’t give us anything positive that doesn’t ensure we are beholden and chained to it.

      4. You say: ‘It is though not a soft Brexit. What makes you think it is?’

        I think you are far too trusting. Neither you nor anybody else has any detailed knowledge of what is in Boris’s WA. The politicians have deliberately procrastinated and tried to destroy democracy for over three years.

        It is, surely, irrational to trust our politicians – why do you trust any of them when even Boris and JRM voted in favour for May’s surrender WA?

    3. With respect to a fair number of NOTTLers – there is Scotland.
      We could do a swap.
      Scottish NOTTLers move south and we send the treacherous 21/22/23 (?) plus all the LibDems to North Britain. The Highland clearances in reverse.

      1. Good idea, Anne. We were thinking of moving. We’re very quiet, quite clean, and keep normal hours. If you have a spare bedroom with a sitting room and access to bathroom and kitchen we, the Sultana and myself, will be very happy to move in at the end of the month.

  18. This was always obvious……

    Lsura Kuenssberg
    @bbclaurak
    26m

    1. As we head to Brussels, there is a draft deal on the table that does 2 things the PM was told couldn’t be done – whole UK leaves the customs union, with some special arrangements for Northern Ireland, but there is an exit mechanism.

    2. There is a BUT of giant proportions – the DUP is not on board, they have a simple concern that the proposed way out of the non backstop-backstop (it needs a better name than special arrangements, ideas anyone? I heard ‘safety net’ a while ago) gives too much power to Sinn Fein.

    3. Their fear is that nationalist community could vote to keep NI tied more closely to EU against the Unionists wishes for years to come – some people will accuse them of wilful stubborness, but the concerns are genuine that it’s not a deal they can sell to their voters at home.

    4. But what’s on table is a possible solution to conundrum that’s been locked for months – Qs this morn, is anything else that can be shifted to ease DUP fears, any chance they’ll budge under political pressure, or would PM try to bounce them? seems unlikely in political circs.

  19. Louise Ellman: MP quits Labour over anti-Semitism concerns

    MP Louise Ellman has quit the Labour Party, saying Jeremy Corbyn is “not fit” to become prime minister.
    The Liverpool Riverside MP said in a letter she had been “deeply troubled” by the “growth of anti-Semitism” in Labour in recent years.
    Mrs Ellman, who is Jewish, has been a party member for 55 years but said she “can no longer advocate voting Labour when it risks Corbyn becoming PM”.

    1. Why bring up the Jewish issue? If she cannot stand the leader, then she either puts up with him or she leaves the party, which is her right.

      Labour’s NEC wisely, and in the teeth of opposition from the IHRA, separated the sort of antisemitism that led on to the Holocaust, which should rightly be nipped in the bud, from the “antisemitism” being any criticism in a free country of Israeli apartheid and the corralling of troublesome “Arabs” into ghettos, which is itself a form of racism and leads to trouble. For as long as those taking on antisemitism are distracted with defending Netanyahu’s attitude and methods, they are neglecting to take on the residual anti-Jewish hate that could as a result get out of hand.

  20. James Rothwell

    @JamesERothwell

    Understand DUP said ‘No’ to the Brexit deal this morning because it required a simple majority vote at Stormont on the backstop, not parallel consent (i.e support from both unionists and nationalists)

    2. Is that a sneaky way of allowing Sinn Fein/Republicans to eventually take over the process and strip NI from the Union i.e. the EU get their way in starting to dismantle the UK? Time is not a problem for them as long as the process is in place. As usual the truth is in the detail: what other nasties lurk in Johnson’s rushed “deal”.

      1. If NI united with the Republic who would notice, or care? We could simply close our marine borders against Ireland for ever and they could do all their business through French ports for all l care.
        I’d sooner eat sausages from Argentina than from Ireland.

        1. If the commercial brand of ‘Irish Recipe’ sausages is anything to go by they can keep them. I like the roughly chopped pork sausages I found in Catalonia.

    2. There were more than a few of us who breathed a sigh of relief 2 or 3 years ago when the DUP hoved into view around Brexit. It was nice to see some politicians who still had some real Conservative values.

      The question now is, will enough of the Remainer MP’s in the other parties leap forward to get this W/A through anyway. Several have said that they would, so the dogs might get the surrender bill passed on Saturday anyway.

      1. What should worry any intelligent and serious politician (I know they’re rationed) is the short time frame that this new/amended treaty has been in existence. Rees-Mogg admitted he did not know much detail and only very few are aware of the full text. Yet, Johnson wants this deal ratified on Saturday by Parliament. This appears very much like May’s Chequers’ gambit where the Cabinet were presented with a fait accompli re her “deal”, and look how that turned out. How serious a scrutiny can take place between today and end of play on Saturday? A botch up, a stitch up or a good dose of both?

      2. There is hope that the Labour lot won’t vote for a Tory deal on principle. The Limp Dims might not vote for it because it pretends to leave and they want the full Monty of keeping us in. I think I’m going to be wearing out my knees praying that we get out with a clean break between now and Saturday.

  24. The BBC pictures of the ER protest at one of the stations which was above ground shows a man in a suit being hauled off the roof of the train and being beaten and kicked mercilessly by the commuters. He appears to have survived and the station was clear at 8.30 when I watched the clip. This is what happens when the police take sides.

    1. He was pulled off of the roof and there was a crowd around him but he was not beaten up

        2. Yes he was given a “good kicking” as they say. But I seriously doubt he was in danger of his life. He had managed to hold up the train for 20 minutes in rush hour, stopping people who need to work for a living getting to their jobs.

          There is no wonder at all that people have had enough of these stupid little boys who do not understand the real world.

    3. I’m not sure if it is the same man, but there was a clip showing him kicking out at a commuter who was trying to pull him off the train. Small wonder he got a beating.

      1. The very same man sos. A passenger got out of the train and chased another along the roof until both came off the roof [ no details of how they came off] It will show the protesters that we are getting tired of their actions and that some lives could be lost.

        2. Bill, is this really you or have you been assimilated by the Brussels’ arm of the Borg and been reprogrammed as cheerleader for Johnson’s new “deal”? Asking for a friend. 🙃

          2. If we do not know what it does do how can we know what it doesn’t do? Detail is not available, even to some Cabinet Ministers.

          3. I have been thinking that too of late. It doesn’t quite sound like the Bill Jackson we have come to know…. for instance apart from the opinions, where are the familiar typos, grammatical errors? Though I do note the omission of an apostrophe and a comma in the immediate above question.

      1. That though is impossible. Do you not wish to trade with the EU or travel to it How will you resolve the NI border issue?

        1. Of course we’ll still be able to travel and trade. Businesses will always find a way to trade despite politicians.
          The NI is an EU problem and for them to solve, nothing to do with us. If they want the ROI to stop sending their beef to us let them sort it out.

          1. If you with to trade with the EU and travel to it you will need agreements with the EU,. NI is a part of the UK so it is our problem

          2. We can trade and travel across the whole world but not to the EU 27? I think you need a reality check Bill. You are starting to believe politicians and the MSM. Quite a serious condition. Get it checked out.

          3. You need civil aviation agreements to fly to and from the EU countries and even to use their airspace. You need to comply with EU legislation to trade with the EU

          4. We have to do that across the world. We have been told that all that is in place. Coming through LGW on Sunday the signs are already there – UK and EU passports. The Mayor of Calais said a year or so ago that the port is ready. HMRC have said all is in place for Brexit. Is the EU going to jeopardise its £90 billion trade surplus with us.
            As I said Bill you need a reality check.

          5. Bill, we dealt with the airspace issue when May’s deal was being touted around. Look at which country controls the airspace over the Eastern Atlantic and Ireland: clue, it isn’t the EU. If they want to restrict our access to their airspace our retaliation could cripple their ability to fly to the USA etc.

          6. In order to fly planes we have to be subject to the agricultural policies of the WU. In order to fly planes, the EU need to be able to catch UK fish. In order to fly planes we have to allow Bulgarian beggars free access to our streets…and so on.

            Have I understood your views correctly?

          7. Flying has already been sorted. Wherever we trade we need to comply with the standards of the country we’re trading with. Very few companies trade with the EU, but ALL companies have to comply with their onerous legislation. Once we’re out, really out, those who don’t trade with the EU won’t have to.

          8. MSM Kool Aid, readily available at multiple outlets and in various formats e.g. paper, radio, moving pictures and easily downloaded with their free apps.

          9. Let us put it in simple way. We could revert to the agreements we had in 1965. Full Stop. They worked fine.

          10. The EU sells more to us than we sell to them. We are a large and important market. If they decide not to sell to us we’ll source our goods (more cheaply) elsewhere and they’ll go bankrupt. What’s not to like?

          11. The Norway-Sweden border isn’t manned, and trade works fine – as does the collection of customs duties.

          12. They have been lying for the past 45 years and there is no reason we should expect them to tell the truth now.
            A plague on all their houses.

        2. How did we trade with Europe before existence of the Common Market, before the European Economic Community, before The European Community or before the European Union?

          Don’t you get a smidgen of an idea of what the EU is about from the frequent and progressive name changes?

        3. The NI border is an EU invention. We say, “we are not going to have a hard border in NI, if you want one, you erect it and police it”.

    3. Not being subject to the ECJ, not having to comply with EU directives, not having to pay any money to the evil empire, control over our borders and fishing grounds, no EU co-operation with the EU army, EU law no longer taking precedence over Common Law, freedom to make and sign our own FTAs – that’s just for starters!

  26. What I find odd about the Extinction Anarchists is that they are quite willing to make thousands of people suffer, miss trains and planes, fail to get to work, miss hospital appointments, and cause criminal damage – BUT they get all wimpish and weepy should anyone even threaten them – let alone assault them.

    1. Most have either public sector non-jobs or no job at all.
      As for your second point – they are bullies, pure and simple.
      But you knew that!

  27. A belated “Morning, Campers”.
    A Spekkie article to chew over while I take Spartie out before it persists down – again.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/should-muslim-parents-be-allowed-to-challenge-lgbt-lessons/?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=WEEK%20%2020191019%20%20AL&utm_content=WEEK%20%2020191019%20%20AL%20CID_fc1919d016596f32d526b3a4975a20eb&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Production&utm_term=Should%20Muslim%20parents%20be%20allowed%20to%20challenge%20LGBT%20lessons

    “Should Muslim parents be allowed to challenge LGBT lessons?

    The Birmingham school protests have turned into one of those totemic issues: tolerant Britain vs backward religious people
    Melanie McDonagh

    We saw two different worlds, or at least two different value systems, collide in the High Court in Birmingham this week. On one side there was Sarah Hewitt-Clarkson, the headmistress of Anderton Park, a little primary school in Sparkhill, a largely Pakistani bit of the city; on the other, two men who represent Muslim parents there. You may well have heard about the case. It has turned into one of those totemic issues: tolerant Britain vs backward religious people.

    At issue is the question of whether and how children should be taught about gay relationships — and whether and how parents who don’t like it should be allowed to protest about it. Birmingham City Council wants to set up a permanent exclusion zone banning protests around the school; the High Court is hearing its case.

    One of the mildly amusing moments on the first day was when counsel for the protesters brought up Roy and Silo, heroes of a little book called And Tango Makes Three, one of the books used in the school’s ‘Educate and Celebrate’ diversity programme. Roy and Silo, you see, are just like other penguin couples at the zoo: they bow to each other, walk together and swim together. But they are, ahem, boy penguins. So when the keeper finds them trying to hatch a stone, he realises it’s time to give them an actual egg — and bingo, Tango makes three. Mrs Hewitt-Clarkson was asked about this book in court: would it cause tension, given the religion of the pupils (mostly Muslim)? ‘There is a tension, of course, when some people believe homosexuality is sinful,’ she replied. ‘It is not sinful in British law.’

    The protestors include Shakeel Afsar, who has a nephew at the school, and Amir Ahmed, a spokesman for the demonstrators. Neither are parents of pupils at Anderton, but Mr Ahmed says parents asked him to speak for them. The protests are sometimes joined by people unrelated to the city, let alone the school, which has led to a row about who actually represents the parents.

    What do the parents think? I tried to ask some of the mothers at the court but I was waved away. ‘They don’t trust the media,’ said Sumayah, Amir’s daughter, from behind a face veil. (One of the things my day in Birmingham taught me was that a face veil is really annoying if you’re trying to have a conversation with the woman behind it — but that she may still be very feisty indeed.)

    Given this choice in the diversity debate, it’s not an entire mystery why the reporting has tended to favour the articulate headmistress. I went to Anderton Park to talk to a few parents picking up their children: the fact that some paused to talk to a stranger in the rain is testimony to their niceness. It’s startling how many of the mothers can’t speak English. Many are veiled; a few wear the full face veil. When I asked one what she thought about her children being taught about gay relationships, she didn’t understand at first but her little cherub piped: ‘LGBT!’ The mother shrugged and said she was OK with these things being discussed.

    On the basis of this small and wholly erratic sample, my impression was that parents’ opinions are mixed. One lady thought gay awareness was fine, because the children would encounter these things anyway. Others took a dim view. One mother shook her head: ‘Women and women, men and men… it’s not good,’ she said. A father said simply: ‘They’re too young.’ This has been one of the parents’ themes: it’s about age-appropriate education, not just the agenda itself.

    At the nearby Hamza mosque there were leaflets telling the faithful: ‘Your City Council is attempting to Silence the Truth! Come and support the parents at Birmingham High Court.’ There are rumours about unsavoury extremists being involved with the protests and Muslim opinions about the LGBT awareness agenda are mixed: Paul Armstrong, the irenic head of the Association of British Muslims, has examined the books used in the No Outsiders programme in the city’s Parkfield School where the protests originally began and found them benign.

    When I spoke to Amir Ahmed, I found the agenda pretty reasonable. The protesters want parents to be consulted about LGBT awareness programmes — not merely informed. They say they have no problem with homosexuality being mentioned and have no problems with gay individuals, but ‘we don’t want proselytising’. They worry that differing views of morality are not tolerated. As Sumayah Ahmed said: ‘We want our values, family values, to be respected.’ And those values include a rethinking of sex education to include the value of chastity.

    We’re living through an era of rapid change. Until recently, the views of the protesters would have been what most Brits thought. Being a socially conservative Catholic, I found their concerns understandable. How do you define age-appropriate sex education? Who decides? Whose values matter? Should parents be consulted? All reasonable questions. But in Birmingham they’re being drowned out by loud voices on both sides.”

    1. Yes, and not just Muslim parents but ANY parent with serious objections to the LBGTUVWXYZ brainwashing going on in our schools.

    3. This didn’t startle me:

      It’s startling how many of the mothers can’t speak English.

      1. Woking had the first purpose built mosque in the U.K. built in 1889 but there are still large numbers of mozzies who still don’t speak English.

          5. Just had to look up the reference and found this gem of a letter from Waugh to his wife:

            “No.3 Commando was very anxious to be chums with Lord Glasgow, so they offered to blow up an old tree stump for him and he was very grateful and said don’t spoil the plantation of young trees near it because that is the apple of my eye and they said no of course not we can blow a tree down so it falls on a sixpence and Lord Glasgow said goodness you are clever and he asked them all to luncheon for the great explosion.
            So Col. Durnford-Slater DSO said to his subaltern, have you put enough explosive in the tree?. Yes, sir, 75lbs. Is that enough? Yes sir I worked it out by mathematics it is exactly right. Well better put a bit more. Very good sir.
            And when Col. D Slater DSO had had his port he sent for the subaltern and said subaltern better put a bit more explosive in that tree. I don’t want to disappoint Lord Glasgow. Very good sir.
            Then they all went out to see the explosion and Col. DS DSO said you will see that tree fall flat at just the angle where it will hurt no young trees and Lord Glasgow said goodness you are clever.
            So soon they lit the fuse and waited for the explosion and presently the tree, instead of falling quietly sideways, rose 50 feet into the air taking with it ½ acre of soil and the whole young plantation.
            And the subaltern said Sir, I made a mistake, it should have been 7½ not 75. Lord Glasgow was so upset he walked in dead silence back to his castle and when they came to the turn of the drive in sight of his castle what should they find but that every pane of glass in the building was broken.
            So Lord Glasgow gave a little cry and ran to hide his emotions in the lavatory and there when he pulled the plug the entire ceiling, loosened by the explosion, fell on his head.
            This is quite true.
            Letter to his wife (31 May 1942)

    4. ‘It is not sinful in British law.’ What an idiotic statement. British law deals with legality, not moral issues (ie sinfulness).

  28. Aluminum is replacing plastic as the greenest bottle

    The only problem is Aluminium is far fro Green

    he drive to turn products more eco-friendly is sweeping through the U.S. beverage market, with plastic being replaced in everything from red Solo cups to Coca-Cola Co. and PepsiCo Inc. water bottles.

    In place of the petrochemical material, aluminum is emerging as a more sustainable option to cater to environmentally conscious consumers.

    1. That wouldn’t be the Aluminium that needs vast amount of electricity for its production would it??
      Surely it’s the New Aluminium refined by unicorn farts………..

  29. Boris Johnson is heading to Brussels for a crunch EU summit as he tries to get a Brexit deal breakthrough across the line.
    The Prime Minister needs the EU to approve his deal at the gathering on Thursday in order to avoid delaying Brexit beyond the October 31 deadline.

  30. I trust the politicians are taking note of what kicked off, if I may use
    that phrase, at Canning Town. Ordinary people being obstructed in their
    lawful occasions. As nothing compared to having democratic rights
    stripped away and tossed in a bin………………..

  32. Morning thinkers

    Found this.. hope it’s not true!

    Brexit Limericks
    @PoetBrexit
    ·
    Aug 25
    There are perks to having a bloke
    Gifted in chatting to folk.
    Just watch him rebrand
    May’s work, second-hand,
    With a laugh, a shrug and a joke.

  33. Dead Penguins – I never knew this!

    Did you ever wonder why there are no dead penguins on the ice in Antarctica? Where do they go?

    Wonder no more!

    It is a known fact that the penguin is a very ritualistic bird which lives an extremely ordered and complex life. The penguin is very committed to its family and will mate for life, as well as maintain a form of compassionate contact with its offspring throughout its life.

    If a penguin is found dead on the ice surface, other members of the family and social circle have been known to dig holes in the ice, using their vestigial
    wings and beaks, until the hole is deep enough for the dead bird to be rolled into, and buried.

    The male penguins then gather in a circle around the fresh grave and sing:
    “Freeze a jolly good fellow.”
    “Freeze a jolly good fellow.”
    Then, they kick him in the ice hole.

    You really didn’t believe that I know anything about penguins, did you?
    It’s so easy to fool OLD people.
    I am sorry, an urge came over me that made me do it!!!

    I fell for it, too

  34. Would anyone do me the favour of clicking on my avatar to see my earliest post today, which seems not to have been noticed by NoTTLers since most comments/upvotes seem to concern my latest posts. In the post I refer to I asked to be enlightened about the debate in Parliament about the Queen’s Speech. Thank you!

    1. Queen’s speech dismissed by the opposition as an election manifesto.
      Much ado about very little. No action as yet, Saturday will be “interesting”

      I suspect you now know about Boris’s poison parcel.

      I trust you had a good break away from all the Brexit and ER rubbish and inconvenience.

  35. Unemployment figures should be millions higher, says research. Thu 17 Oct 2019 00.01 BST

    OECD and Centre for Cities study indicates there are ‘hidden’ numbers”.

    Millions more people in Britain are without a job than shown by official unemployment figures,according to a study that suggests the jobless rate should be almost three times higher.

    “Hidden Numbers” Lol! They’ve been fiddled since I was teenager and even more so after the introduction of Mass Immigration. You can believe no statistics issued by any UK Government!

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/oct/17/unemployment-figures-should-be-millions-higher-says-research

    1. The real statistics are known to Tesco and the big supermarkets, because they know how much nosh people can stuff down their gobs, and with some arithmetic they can deduce the population figures.

    5. We should show humanity to the old crustie.
      Send him to gaol where he will be warm and get three square meals a day.

  41. A ConHome article by a brave man who has stood up to all that Tower Hamlets can throw at him. (Most of us can imagine what he has gone through.)

    https://www.conservativehome.com/platform/2019/10/peter-golds-why-voter-id-for-elections-is-long-overdue.html?utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Thursday%2017%20October%202019&utm_content=Thursday%2017%20October%202019+CID_5576336bace672cb859d76510fa63b1f&utm_source=Daily%20Email&utm_term=Peter%20Golds%20Voter%20ID%20for%20elections%20is%20long%20overdue

    Peter Golds: Voter ID for elections is long overdue
    Last updated: October 17, 2019 at 7:19 am

    Cllr Peter Golds is a councillor in Tower Hamlets. He has served as a London Councillor for almost 21 years and is a Board Member of the Conservative Councillors Association.

    “Amongst many revelations in Willie Carlin’s recently-released book Thatcher’s Spy; My Life as an MI5 Agent inside Sinn Fein is what he describes as his greatest achievement; the ending of “vote stealing” – the endemic electoral corruption that poisoned the electoral process and much else, in the province for decades.

    This was wholesale corruption that was endorsed and carried out by both sides in the sectarian divide. As described in the Sunday Times extracts of his book, he organised the vote stealing that helped elect Bobby Sands to Parliament. This was achieved by having a team to impersonate voters whom they knew had not voted. In his words “this wide open abuse still exists on the mainland.” Chillingly, he jokes that with a small budget and a few hundred workers “I could probably win a marginal seat for any candidate or independence for Scotland.”

    In order to deal with this problem the Blair Government introduced voter ID in Northern Ireland. The result has been to clean up elections in and lift the taint of corruption that for over half a century had soured elections in the province. This reform was one of a number of measures that increased cross-community confidence across Northern Ireland.

    The integrity and legitimacy of the ballot and elections must be of one of the prime concerns of any democratic government – and there are serious failings in the UK at present.

    To be handed a voting paper on demand, as is the custom in England, Scotland and Wales, is out of touch with reality. Democracies across the world, including those in the EU, require a form of ID for an elector to vote. The notion that ID is unavailable is wrong. It is not possible to rent a property, open a bank account, claim benefit, drive a car, obtain a driving licence, or enter many official buildings without ID in one form or another.

    How often, in modern society, is ID routinely required? I continuously come across voters who express surprise that it is not required when voting.

    The Labour Party has strict internal rules about ID. Two forms of ID are required to attend Labour Party selection meetings. Labour charges £30 to process photo ID to enable delegates to attend the party conference. Momentum restricted those attending a rally to campaign against voter ID to those producing ID in the form of a membership card. The latter point proving, if any proof were needed, that Momentum is a veritable corkscrew of hypocrisy.

    The Electoral Reform Society naturally opposes this change. Their former director issued press statements against voter ID whilst simultaneously seeking and failing to secure a Labour Parliamentary nomination which required her supporters to attend selection meetings.

    There are constant excuses that personation and voter fraud is not a problem. I have seen far too much of it to be more than aware that there is a problem. In Tower Hamlets, this has included people standing outside polling stations with copies of an electoral register to provide convenient names to potential fraudsters.

    I had evidence of one fraudster placing four names (which he had forgotten) on the electoral register using an incorrect house number and demanding from the electoral registration officer cards for electors whose names he could not remember. I witnessed a man turning up in Tower Hamlets with a poll card from Enfield, and trying to look for a similar name on the register in front of the poll clerk. Then there is the sad case of the man whose death was registered in Bangladesh on an election day. Miraculously, his vote was recorded thousands of miles away in Tower Hamlets. Elsewhere there was extensive coverage of the incident in the Midlands of poll clerks showing students a register and asking them to find their name.

    These are just a few tips of a scarcely-concealed iceberg which damages democracy. In fact, what I have reported above is the tip of an iceberg. Consider the situation when serious fraudsters such as Willie Carlin, Lutfur Rahman and Tariq Mahmood set out to steal an election, and have not only themselves but a machinery to achieve it. We know the answer and it can be identified in recent election petitions.

    Amongst our problems in resolving this situation is the ongoing failure of the police to actually investigate personation and election fraud in any meaningful way. I accept that this is expensive and requires training of officers. Too often, the police response to complaints is to ignore them or simply do the minimum which involves looking at the offence and “speaking to the offender.” The result of this is that there is no record of far too many offences and therefore it can be said there is not a problem. However, Birmingham, Peterborough, Derby, Slough, Woking and Tower Hamlets prove otherwise.

    I am concerned that the disaster of Operation Midland will make the police even less inclined to undertake investigations that intrude into politics. The legacy of Tom Watson misusing both the parliamentary and legal systems to smear political opponents for party political gain is likely to make the police even more wary of actually investigating electoral fraud.

    The reason there is legislation governing human actions ranging from speeding in a car to completing a tax return is that this is essential for good conduct. The number of convictions for speeding and tax avoidance is far smaller than the incidents of both, but society expects there to be a legal framework and enforcement. Nobody says that speeding and tax evasion do not exist.

    Even the feeble electoral commission have asked that the modest reform of voter ID be introduced. In Northern Ireland, any elector that does not have a form of ID can obtain a certificate from the local authority. The Government are proposing to extend this across all of Great Britain and doing so to bring our voting procedures in line with other mature democracies that value one person one vote.

    There have been voter ID trials and they proved successful and popular with voters who are reassured that their vote actually counts. The opposition to this simple change by Labour smacks of cynicism and possibly something worse. Why is Labour so keen on ensuring their internal processes are managed correctly yet opposed to ensuring the integrity of the ballot in local and national elections?

    Marsha-Jane Thompson a Momentum activist once employed by Tower Hamlets council, was prosecuted for submitting 100 forged applications to vote to Newham Council. She now has a House of Commons Pass and is employed to work on Jeremy Corbyn’s events and campaigns team.

    Strangely, Labour are unhappy at being reminded of this. Why?”

    1. I hope Martin Howe QC will undertake a forensic legal analysis and publish it before Saturday…..

    2. May’s with cheap lipstick.
      A very quick skimming of the documents suggests that apart from the handling of NI nothing has changed.

      1. If it consists of more than two pages, it is a sell-out*.

        *Technically, a reverse sell- out, they get the goods and we pay the money.

    3. Here’s one of the clauses of vital importance to our trading:
      “Regulation (EU) No 19/2013 of the European Parliament and of the Council of
      15 January 2013 implementing the bilateral safeguard clause and the stabilisation
      mechanism for bananas of the Trade Agreement between the European Union and its
      Member States, of the one part, and Colombia and Peru, of the other part”

  45. The final act of the long running and widely acclaimed Brexit thriller is/should be……

    ………..E X P O S U R E………

    Uncle George – £100, 000, 000

    Where it went, to whom, and why.

    2. Rik – that was the nightmare scenario that was outlined 6 weeks ago by one of those rare creatures – a journalist who spoke the truth. I have not seen her again reviewing the papers since then. I wonder why.

      Boris brings the same W/A back with some tinkering. The EU threatens no extension and a “No-Deal” Brexit unless the deal is approved. The Remainer MP’s from all sides vote for it as it gives them years to overturn the referendum result instead of being out of the EU in 2 weeks.

      The EU gets want it wants with the deal that they wrote for Theresa May to trap the United Kingdom. Even if they fail, which is extremely unlikely, then they just give Boris the extension anyway and tie us in until they try again.

      On that cheery note (the EU are not fools, just evil) it is good to remind ourselves that we can get rid of those MP’s who vote us into this trap at the next election. Then we can rip up this deal and Leave the EU anyway. In the end it will be our choice to make, not theirs.

  50. The plan would mean a limited customs border on the Irish Sea, and a potential to exit a revised backstop but only in certain circumstances.

    The deal would see Northern Ireland legally in the UK customs territory while applying the EU’s rules and procedures on tariffs.

    And NI would also be aligned with the rules of the single market for industrial goods and agri-food products – meaning a border in the Irish sea for goods going between the rest of the UK and Northern Ireland.

    The paper states there would continue to be “unfettered” access for goods from NI moving into the UK.

    On consent a Stormont Assembly would vote on EU alignment in 2024 – after the transition period. If Stormont voted to opt-out of EU alignment there would then be a two-year cooling off period for alternatives to be found to prevent a hardening of the border.

    The default would be the protocols would remain – meaning EU alignment – if there were no Assembly at the time.

    Should any vote take place on a simple majority basis and be in favour of continued alignment, then another vote would take place four years later.

    If it was on a cross-community basis – and resulted in continuing alignment – another vote would be held in eight years time.

  52. Corbyn is just spouting rubbish. What the NHS has to do with this deal I don’t know. It is not trade deal with the US. The NHS is not listed no the stock market so it is in any case impossible for the US to take it over. There are no changes to any standard etc neither

    This morning Mr Corbyn said: ‘From what we know, it seems the Prime Minister has negotiated an even worse deal than Theresa May’s, which was overwhelmingly rejected.

    ‘These proposals risk triggering a race to the bottom on rights and protections: putting food safety at risk, cutting environmental standards and workers’ rights, and opening up our NHS to a takeover by US private corporations.

    1. There’s not a lot of the NHS left that Labour didn’t privatise prior to the 2010 election.
      One of the reasons I was keen to retire/resign early from the NHS was precisely because I didn’t want to be part of a department run by a private company. I’m not necessarily against private input to the NHS. The pathology computer system that I’d run for around 10 years was supplied by a U.S. company. It looked clunky, because it wasn’t originally Windows based, but for functionality and data security, it beat the UK system that was foisted on us by the private lab hands down. I hated the management of the private lab. They were arrogant, predatory, and liars.
      They are currently running the pathology services at the hospital I worked at, and have a very high staff turnover, plus a recruitment problem. What a surprise. And they’re costing the NHS hospital a lot more money than expected. Again, what a surprise.

  53. Some details on the deal

    Customs

    The European Union and Mr Johnson moved towards each other on a customs arrangement for Northern Ireland.

    Mr Johnson is reported to have ditched his “two borders” proposals and will instead accept the six counties will remain in a customs union with the Brussels in all but name.

    The EU, meanwhile, has agreed for Northern Ireland – in what would be a complex dual-tariff arrangement – to be allowed to officially remain in a customs territory with the UK, meaning the region can benefit from trade deals inked by the Government and any lower tariffs agreed by ministers.

    The arrangement would keep the Irish internal border open but create checks in the Irish Sea on goods travelling between Northern Ireland and Great Britain, a situation that crosses the DUP’s “blood red” line.

    Ms Foster had previously said: “There cannot be a border down the Irish Sea, a differential between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK. The red line is blood red.”

    Consent

    Conservative leader Mr Johnson often labelled his predecessor Theresa May’s backstop plans “undemocratic” and sought a mechanism to give Northern Ireland an opt-in or way out of his Withdrawal Agreement.

    The EU rejected plans to give the Stormont Assembly a veto every four years on the border deal but is said to have conceded to a unilateral exit arrangement, using a vote mechanism concocted by Assembly members.

    A rejection of the plans by the Assembly, which is currently suspended, would bring in a two-year cooling-off period in which a way of saving the Good Friday agreement would need to be found, according to The Times newspaper.

    The DUP fears that moves to bypass the petition of concern – a unique political tool that allows unionist or nationalist groups to reject reforms in Northern Ireland – could upset the balance of the once-warring communities.

    VAT

    Brussels and the UK are reportedly in a wrangle over VAT and whether EU rates should apply in Northern Ireland.

    The objection from Downing Street was described by EU diplomats as a “British smokescreen” to give Number 10 more time to win over the DUP, according to The Guardian.
    How concerned Ms Foster is about staying with the UK’s VAT rate is unclear, and whether she is using the disagreement to show there are issues being voiced by more than just her own party remains to be seen.

    1. But I thought that was impossible? It’s amazing what can be achieved by someone who is actually prepared to negotiate and walk away from the table if necessary.

      Saying that, the devil is in the detail. I am assuming that all the other horrors of May’s Awful Surrender Document are still there? In which case this is not Brexit.

      1. Does not appear to be the case. WE are out of the single market & out of the customs Union well except NI where of necessity there has to be a bit of a fudge. No mention of ECJ or Payment to EU so far

        1. Why is there no problem between Norway & Sweden and all the other countries the EU abuts? The NI/RoI border is a red herring, always has been and always will be. We should never have accepted as a problem.

          1. The only reason is it is a problem is politics. The border between NI & Ireland is highly sensitive. Neither NI,. Ireland, UK & EU and US would find a border between NI and Ireland as acceptable

          2. But why is it a problem when it isn’t with the rest of the EU countries that abut non members? We have always said we will not construct a hard border it, therefore, follows that it would be a decision of the EU/RoI to put it in. It is their problem not ours.

          3. The historical issues between Ni & Ireland a border there would very likely reignite the troubles

          4. Why? The border is some 300+ miles long with numerous crossing points. How will all those be covered. I bet it wouldn’t make one iota of difference between the people of the North or South.
            A political invention of no substance.

          8. I also understand the sectarian killings have also continued since the GFA but are not reported.
            No I haven’t been to NI nor have I been to Paris recently by I know the Gilets Jeune are still active and I haven’t been to Barcelona recently but I know there are riots there but not reported and I have never been to Syria but know there are terrorist troubles there.
            I have just been on to Amazon and ordered some more straws for you to clutch. 😂😂

          10. That’s a bit unkind. We have all lived through endless news programmes and discussions, on TV, in the papers, and in real life, about the Troubles. Many of us who were not in the forces have been close to the damage caused by the IRA. All of us will have been seriously inconvenienced and upset by the “security” measures put in place at airports.
            This really has no bearing on the palaver going on about the border. Re-read, if you will, the Good Friday Agreement and point out to us, please, exactly where in the 35 pages or so it mentions how the Irish Border should be managed.
            That, Bill, is the issue that has been blown up by Leo Varadkar and cronies. There is no need for any of us to have been there at all.
            (I have. I saw the wreck of Nelson’s statue in O’Connell Street, and sandbagged police stations in Ulster.)

          11. The entire concept of “The Backstop” was a non-issue that was created to distract attention from the prison that was being built for the United Kingdom, that was code-named “Withdrawal Agreement.”

            Other countries manage to sell things to the EU without needing to hand over political control and the keys to their treasuries to them.

          12. Exactly. Bill is promoting the EU non-case. The Republic is a cats-paw for the EU. Over 200 unmarked, unguarded, crossing points between NI and the Irish Free State.
            The value of goods terminating in the UK has not been published that I have seen. Nor has the corresponding value of the Duty that would be charged, if any, under new arrangements. I strongly suspect that it is trivial, a few million, in the great scheme of things.
            All this is drama over nothing.
            The vision of the UK as a free nation once again, freely trading around the world, is clear. It means few tariff barriers, or none.
            We cannot plan our future on trade and at the same time impose the same kind to protectionist barriers that the EU has put up.

        2. Let’s see what details emerge over the next few hours. Hopefully the likes of Martin Howe and the ERG’s ‘Star Chamber’ are poring over it as we speak.

          As far as I have seen, Johnson’s only objective has been to delete the backstop. All the other horrors of the WA remain, including the extension period (endlessly extendable) where we have no say over the laws that are imposed on us, the £39bn we don’t legally owe, Defence and Military co-operation and all the rest remain. I’d be very happy to be proved wrong, but my trust in politicians is less than zero. I am highly suspicious of any deal with the EU which is anything other than a Canada-style free-trade agreement.

          https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/11/the-top-40-horrors-lurking-in-the-small-print-of-theresa-mays-brexit-deal/

          1. The main problem with the ECJ is it is an EU court. Going to an International court is normal particularly with trade ie the US / EU dispute over Boeing was arbitrated by the WTO

          2. Well quite, if the EU’s own pet court still has jurisdiction over us then that is another indicator that this isn’t Brexit.

            Ironically, with all the focus on Ireland the DUP are less important than they were last time around, as Johnson doesn’t have a majority even with their support. But my hope is that the DUP won’t support it, which means the ERG won’t either, Labour/Lib-Dem/SNP won’t support anything a Tory government negotiates on general principles. We then either leave with No Deal by default on the 31st or we extend, have a GE and hopefully the Tories swallow their pride and work with Farage to get a thumping majority.

      2. Yet… what about fishing rights? Corporation tax? Scrapping VAT? Making competitiive trade deals? Why shouldn’t we undercut the EU. We can. That’s the point of Brexit. Apparently we’d still be funding the CAP and giving them control over our foreign aid budget – they spend this on their external action service. We’d be paying for their embassies. Why has the EU embassies at all?

        1. I’m pretty sure the rest of the WA was not reopened at all – only the part relating to NI.

          1. Then that’s just flucking damgerous.

            Dangerous and damaging.

            No point voting to leave if that’s the case.

        2. All very good points. And I wonder why it is left to commentators like ourselves to raise these points rather than, I don’t know… the BBC? Or ANY of the mainstream press? To look at the news you would think it’s all about the backstop and everything else about the deal is tickety-boo. We are being set up for a monumental stitch-up, and it’s only minor online sites which are pointing it out.

          1. The BBC won’t. It’s far too biased. For it any deal – except full lbown euro membership and sacrifice of our entire way of life on the flames of communism is bad.

  57. (((Dan Hodges)))

    @DPJHodges

    People are right, the backstop has been abandoned. But that’s because Northern Ireland has been abandoned.

    1. Not before time! Besides, I thought the majority in NI voted Remain. Sounds as though their wish is starting to come true.

  58. about 2am this morning, I penned this bit of Conspiracy Theory below the line on The Spectator.

    “My mother, who voted Leave, is saying that now is a very bad time to be severing our connection with the EU, in particular, over military matters, and that an EU-wide defence capability may be far more crucial than a trade one as NATO disintegrates before our eyes.

    Not being able to sleep, I hear that tons of Venezuela gold has been sent to Erdogan [ https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2019-04-25/venezuela-turkey-trading-scheme-enriches-mysterious-maduro-crony ] by corrupt officials there in lieu of salary after the Bolivar has been rendered practically worthless by Meduro. This means that Erdogan is immune from economic sanctions from the world, and that he has an interest in warmongering, which always pushes up the value of gold.

    I then went online to read [ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/turkey-syria-us-nuclear-weapons-bombs-trump-war-isis-kurds-a9158416.html?fbclid=IwAR2jGdpQ97KzKCrz1BvFTDNi2cFiMKtWgH8KA7sfWfI5ctxZRKfor7i9koo ] that when Trump withdrew US forces in Syria, abandoning the Kurds and betraying them to Erdogan’s planned genocide (which Trump refers to Congress as a “brilliant move”), Trump neglected to remove fifty nuclear bombs stationed at the Incirlik Air Base in Turkey (presumably in preparation for wiping out Iran if they threaten Israel), which are now to become the possession of Erdogan, should any more criticism be forthcoming from Congress.

    I am beginning to wonder how much further an American president can go betraying the interests of his country and the free world before he can be removed from office and an attempt made to right the enormous damage he has done over the last ten days,

    I very much doubt this information will make it to the main news bulletins once everyone here wakes up. We’ll be back to emoting over this lad mown down by a dangerous driver, and monkey chanting in Bulgaria being the only things we should worry our pretty heads about. We’re due another child abuse scandal in order to bury bad news, but Brexit is doing a pretty good job at distracting public attention right now. The BBC World Service is back to feminist propaganda now (usual tale about an alcoholic father who sold his daughter into slavery), which is what they are more comfortable with.”

    2. To be honest, the BBC will use anything they can get to destroy Trump, if they are’t using this there cannot be anything in it.

      1. The BBC was quiet about Trump yesterday, and its report about Venezuela did not mention Trump at all; it was critical of Meduro, and just said in passing that he had done a deal with Turkey over Venezuela’s gold reserves.

        The BBC has not even spotted the nuclear threat of NATO weapons falling into the hands of rogue Islamists – that came from The Independent.

        Trump is a fighter and got out in time and can brazen it out – he’ll be ok, which is more than can be said for the Kurds and Arab residents there, for humanitarian workers on the ground in Syria, and most of all for any future confidence in the USA’s global reputation, I would not trust any dealing with the Americans, trade or military, after this. If the UK cannot trust America, then who else can? They’d be turning to Russia or Iran as an honest broker in future.

        Does Trump deserve not to be destroyed politically after this?

        1. Why should American soldiers die to do what you want ?

          Especially as you’ll be safely tucked up at home while they suffer endlessly in yet another war demanded by armchair generals.

          1. They were not dying though. They could rely on the Kurds to do the dying. All the Americans were asked to do was to provide a bit of high tech air cover, and to keep the Turks away.

          2. Good idea, Mr Armchair General, Sir !

            NATO on NATO, and the Turks have got the US nukes.

            Nothing could go wrong here !

        2. Any objective look at UK/US relations over the last century would point up that we can trust them to betray us, to steal from us, to use us, and to rip us off.

    3. Morning Jeremy. I find Trump an enigma. A man I never dreamed would be elected as POTUS but who has the capacity to see through certain problems and tackle them. Wonderful that he immediately saw through the climate fraud but sad that he has done what we always do and abandon the Kurds, a people more deserving of a homeland than the morally destitute Palestinians. He will be re elected I’m sure for the Democrats have reverted to what they always were, the party of cruelty and contempt.

      1. All the more reason for him to resign immediately, to allow some chance for Mike Pence to recover some dignity in the GOP before taking on the Democrats and their wretched political correctness.

          1. It was, but went suddenly AWOL, leaving the world with no policeperson. I find that quite dangerously negligent, especially when a serious crime was about to be committed.

            It reinforces my mother’s argument, in that, now we cannot rely on the Americans any longer, an EU defence capability is essential now, and must be as powerful as the old NATO – something both Trump and Obama have been arguing for, for some time.

            The UK has run down its own armed forces in order to cut taxes and boost bonus bailouts for corporate finance, and can no longer mount a credible police service, and may be barely capable of defending the nation against a determined attack. It could certainly not retake the Falklands now.

          2. Like most Brits, sounds like you want others to do the dirty work.

            Decades of socialism probably.

          4. There wouldn’t have been any ‘ass’ to save were it not for Britain taking on the bullies, while the US dithered and finally got a kick up their ‘ass’ by the Nips.

  59. SIR – When my cousin returned from Kenya, I asked which side they drove on. The answer was, “The best side”, in view of the man-deep potholes.

    Mike Ellis
    Whangamata, New Zealand

  60. It might be being called a new deal but it’s still a three card trick and the punter (UK) always loses.

  62. Has anyone on an iPad just experienced all their stored passwords being deleted whilst just browsing. I was alerted by the mail servers asking for me to sign in.

    1. Print them on a piece of paper and hide in a book.

      The tricky bit is to remember which book…..

      1. Luckily, I do have a paper copy and indeed ‘a system’ of remembering said words. But those sites that did not contain my worldly wealth had passwords stored on the pad, they have all mysteriously been deleted and I am unable to sign in to my mail server. Looks like my Twotter ban is spreading thro GCHQ. I shall go out for a while and hope to return to find that a major company has had a data breach!

        1. I had an odd text on my phone today from EE saying I’d used all my mobile data – phone recorded only 110MB and I pay for 500MB. Also the date it renews was wrong. Something strange there – of course they suggested I buy extra.

        2. This comment I am making might be so obvious that it causes offence, it was certainly not meant that way. 🙂

          Have you recently run any programs to “clean up” the memory on your Pad, or recently chosen to “delete all cookies” on it?

          I only ask, as this can clean out your passwords and stored information / settings for many sites in one go. On the other hand, the site itself may have reset them.

          It only happens rarely, but every now and then Amazon asks me to input my password when I log in. Which leads me on a hunt to find my password list that is stored on paper.

          1. Yes: that is the downside to clearing cookies.
            You find out more quickly that you’ve forgotten them.

          2. No offence taken as sometimes one misses the obvious solution. I noticed something was amiss when I was reading something and my email accounts popped up on the screen asking for a password. Now Cannot sign into yahoo despite being sent a rescue code by sms. The mystery continues! Gives the recently and unexpectedly redundant something to do fir the rest of the week and takes my mind off the shenanigans at Westminster!

      2. Have all your passwords set to ‘password’. No-one would think that anybody would be stupid enough to do this, so will never guess your real password.

          1. I wouldn’t be able to type that on a keyboard. I count 1 to 5 on the fingers of my left hand using my right index finger, but I wouldn’t be able to count 6 and then use the keyboard at the same time.

          1. But Password would be accepted by many and Pasword#1 would be accepted by most.

            Strange how the password th my equivalent of the Automobile Association has tighter rules than the password for my bank accounts.

            Bring back the sticky note on the terminal.

        1. Try hiding it in a copy of “The Book Of Italian War Heroes”. No trouble finding it again in such a small volume.

        2. I would have thought bonkers would have failed to be accepted because it didn’t have upper and lower case and numbers plus a non-standard character 🙂

    3. Phew, after some faffing, the catch-all of a reboot has allowed me to recover all my accounts. Whatever little worm made its way into the system, it also managed to delete the stored wifi password. Thanks for all the suggestions.

  63. The clincher is that Barnier and Juncker et al all say this is a good deal, so logically we have to assume it’s the same pile of shite as May’s WA with barely a tweak. Got to be rejected with no extension.

    2. My thoughts exactly. Let’s hope Corbyn foolishly calls for a VONC to trigger a GE.

  64. Compromise.
    In rugby a compromise is reached at the end of a match, One side wins by 37 points to nil. They then agree a compromise, and decide to call it a draw.
    In a referendum one side wins by a substantial margin. They then agree a compromise and the view of the losing side is adopted.

    Of course in the real world there are winners and sensible people accept this. Which world are we in now?

          3. Not according to A50. Only if talks fail do we negotiate afterwards, unlike what the Remainers demand, namely extension after extension in the hope of killing Brexit off by degrees.

          5. Nope. Read it again. Two years transition period and the EU has to do the negotiations if any, not the UK.
            Despite the whole thrust of Mrs May’s efforts, despite the MSM, the BBC, we are not petitioners. We don’t need permission to leave. We do not need the agreement of the EU on anything in order to leave.
            Of course, that might be little messy and difficulties would require to be dealt with on an ad hoc basis as they arose. But, you know, that is exactly what we voted for.

        2. It makes me smile (amongst other reactions) to hear Agent Corbyn say over and over again that the deal must be put to another referendum. Oh really? The wreckers and traitors ignored the first (just leave) so they will do the same to the next one if they disagree with it.

          1. They will ensure that the next referendum will not have any possibility of a leave scenario in it. The only choice will be remain in one guise or another, so they will be able to agree and implement it.

      4. Well, if there is no need to negotiate, there is no need to compromise.
        Many negotiations do not result in compromise. Sales negotiations. (Have you ever successfully negotiated a price cut at a supermarket check-out?)
        Have you ever negotiated a yacht through a passage between rocks? Did you compromise, you know, only get half sunk, kind of thing?

        Edit: Article 50 does not require the UK to negotiate.

  65. Robert Peston

    Actually there might be legal text for EU leaders to agree at this EU Council. But would there be any point in EU leaders agreeing the legal text if DUP says the deal would be impossible to support in the Commons? They would be agreeing yet another deal that would be rejected by MPs. So any EU agreement would be pointless. I am on my way to Brussels for what will be a messy EU Council.

    1. The DUP though does not really repent NI. Yes they have a lot of MP’s but they dont really reflect the views o the typical NI voter. Most are happy with Boris’s deal
      The problem is not support in NI but gaining the support of the DUP as their votes are needed. I think the DUP can be won over. THe big problem its time

  66. More info coming out . NI will be able to benefit from UK trade deals but goods going from mainland UK to NI must be in regulatory alignment with EU standards, Probably not an issue in most cases. so if we did a deal with the US and Chlorinated chicken came into the UK it could not go to NI

    1. With regard to many other good if they go from mainland UK to NI they would have to meet the CE marking directives. This will not be a problem in most cases

        1. Yes but China cannot approve. Under the CE marking directives it is done by Self Declaration but at least at present that approval has to be done within the EU/EEA. It normally involves producing a Technical File and a Signed Declaration of Conformity which is the legal document that says it complies with the EU standards

          I have seen nothing about whether Mainland UK and NI will be able to carry out the compliance approval once we leave. IT is also possible to use a Notified Body to carry out the approval

    2. What about chlorinated chicken originating in the EU? Shortly after that particular Project Fear rumour, someone in the trade pointed out that EU poultry is also washed in chlorinated water.

      2. It was, but was outlawed by the EU some years ago. Besides, American chicken can be identified by reading the label – if it says ‘Produce of the USA’ then the consumer has the choice to buy or avoid.

        1. I was in Seymour st last night at the Whiskey and Hooker bar. It was little Lebanon around there. At least most of them aren’t trying to kill us.

        2. That I envisage as the response in many Labour inner-city seats if we get a requirement for voter ID.

    3. Dozens injured.

      BLoody hell, just for wanting to be free. By all means issue a statement but the next step is surely negotiation rather than punishment?

  69. Lib-Dems still trying to attach a confirmatory referendum to the deal. I dont think they can do it though as it would take several months and we would have left the EU by then

  70. I know we’ve already discussed this matter; but this is James Kirkup writing something vaguely sensible.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/meet-the-top-cop-who-wants-to-police-your-pronouns/

    Meet the top cop who wants to police your pronouns | Coffee House

    “What is the purpose of the police? Maybe your answer has something to do with “preventing crime” or “arresting criminals”.

    Or maybe you think it’s the job of officers of the law to tell us how to behave, to police our conduct, and to make sure we all speak to each other nicely.

    In which case, the copper for you is Deputy Chief Constable Julie Cooke of Cheshire Police. DCC Cooke has rather a big job in Cheshire, where there were more than 30,000 violent crimes in the year to August 2019 and the monthly rate of violent crime is up by more than 50 per cent in the last year.

    Fortunately, however, DCC Cooke has still managed to find time to make a video marking International Pronouns Day.

    If you’re not familiar with that occasion, the DCC is here to explain that pronouns are very important and we should always take care to use the pronouns – he/she/they/ze/whatever – that other people want us to use for them. This is especially important to “people who identify as transgender and gender non-conforming,” DCC Cooke says.

    “It is so important to understand the pronouns that somebody wishes to be used for them,” the uniformed DCC tells us in her video, filmed in front of a Cheshire Constabulary background – just in case we were in any doubt about whether this is an official police communication.

    “Being misgendered can have a huge impact on somebody and their personal wellbeing. It also can be used as a form of abuse for them, and that just isn’t right,” DCC Cooke says.

    Indeed it is not: personal abuse is unpleasant and unkind and decent people deplore it and avoid it. But is it a crime?

    Will the fact that a senior officer has used police resources to issue a public statement telling the public to respect the pronouns of others make some people wonder if the police now view “misgendering” as a criminal offence?

    Will this sort of thing have some effect on free speech?

    Should women who really, really don’t want to refer to male-born transwomen as “she” be put under pressure to say things they don’t believe?

    Should the feelings of transwomen in such cases automatically have priority over the feelings of women who feel uncomfortable using words they believe denote something fundamentally untrue?

    And is it really the business of the police to tell us how to speak to each other?

    Sadly, DCC Cooke’s video doesn’t answer any of those questions, leaving us all to reach our own conclusions.”

    1. Sorry to hammer on about how things should have been implemented 40 years ago . Times have changed so much.. who on earth would have imagined the police could be as stupid as they are now

      1979 Conservative Party General Election Manifesto

      The Fight against Crime
      The number of crimes in England and Wales is nearly half as much again as it was in 1973. The next Conservative government will spend more on fighting crime even while we economise elsewhere.

      Britain needs strong, efficient police forces with high morale. Improved pay and conditions will help Chief Constables to recruit up to necessary establishment levels. We will therefore implement in full the recommendations of the Edmund Davies Committee. The police need more time to detect crime. So we will ease the weight of traffic supervision duties and review cumbersome court procedures which waste police time. We will also review the traffic laws, including the totting-up procedure.

      Deterring the Criminal
      Surer detection means surer deterrence. We also need better crime prevention measures and more flexible, more effective sentencing. For violent criminals and thugs really tough sentences are essential. But in other cases long prison terms are not always the best deterrent. So we want to see a wider variety of sentences available to the courts. We will therefore amend the 1961 Criminal Justice Act which limits prison sentences on young adult offenders, and revise the Children and Young Persons Act 1969 to give magistrates the power to make residential and secure care orders on juveniles.

      We need more compulsory attendance centres for hooligans at junior and senior levels. In certain detention centres we will experiment with a tougher regime as a short, sharp shock for young criminals. For certain types of offenders, we also support the greater use of community service orders, intermediate treatment and attendance centres. Unpaid fines and compensation orders are ineffective. Fines should be assessed to punish the offender within his means and then be backed by effective sanctions for non-payment.

      Many people advocate capital punishment for murder. This must remain a matter of conscience for Members of Parliament. But we will give the new House of Commons an early opportunity for a free vote on this issue.

    2. “”What is the purpose of the police? Maybe your answer has something to do with “preventing crime” or “arresting criminals”.

      Some years ago now Sussex perlice wasted valuable funds on a glossy colour flyer for every household in the county. It had seven priorities (yes, I know, they can’t all be priorities) the fourth of which was the ‘prevention and detection of crime’. The numero uno priority? ‘Citizen focus’. No, I don’t know what that is either.

    1. We are prisoners of loneliness locked inside our heads
      Interstitial brain cells banged up tight with dread
      Is there a key that will set you free?
      Yes but there’s a catch that’ll take your breath
      It’s a skeleton key that will set you free
      But it goes by the name of Death….

      1. Thanks for posting…
        I’m lucky enough to live in Cornwall too but it’s raw beauty often adds to the solitude.
        Feeling lonely is the time you most need to be by yourself. Life’s cruelest irony.

        I have elderly neighbours who I phone regularly just to see it they are OK…and sign off with
        “I’m here if you need me”…… They never do!

    2. Whilst I feel for these lonely people, buying a bar of chocolate ain’t gonna help. I suggest they join their nearest Wrinklies Club, i.e. the U3A. It certainly helped me.

        1. There is that, P-T, but I have found that most Wrinklies are happy to help by giving lifts, etc. After all, how do they get to the doctor’s, do their shopping, etc? If it is done for them then they do in fact have contact with others to some extent.

    3. That is sad. I love those moments of being alone. Looking out over a coastline as the tide rolls in, with the wind whipping around you. Or those days where you can sit for hours in silence reading about the history of Ancient Egypt. It must be hard for those who prefer more social contact.

      I live in a “fairly rural” part of Cornwall now, instead of a city, and we look out for those who are older or alone who live around us. Even if it is just a “Hello are you all right?” every now and then. When thousands of us had a water mains failure, we were knocking on their doors to take water to them from the bowsers.

      It is completely the wrong time of day for this song, but that clip reminded me of it. “These old eyes have seen it all” by George Jones about an older man sitting alone in a bar.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuoxnxCY-SE

  73. LOL – Boris just quipped at the end of the talks, when the journalists were getting rowdy, “Jean-Claude is the boss here!” Many a true word spoken in jest.

    2. Horribly true I fear.

      What do we think or do now?

      Live Brexit deal latest news: Boris Johnson confirms a ‘great new deal has been done’ but DUP say they are not on board

      It’s not a great deal, it’s not a new deal – it is a rehash of May’s Surrender WA without even resolving the Red Herring of the Northern Ireland Border. It is a ‘deal’ designed to make Britain a vassal state.

      Jean-Claude will soon be replaced by a German frau who is even more anti-Britain than Juncker. What then?

      1. The next period of time is not going to be easy. The EU has a raft of “closer integration” plans just waiting to be imposed, and a lot of bills to be paid. This agreement leaves the United Kingdom wide open to be abused.

        I hope they don’t expect us to say “Thank you Sir!” as their cosh falls. The options are now limited. I just hope to Cod that people remember this when they get the chance to remove those 100’s of MP’s who are dragging our country down. We might get one more election that matters.

        Then there is always civil disobedience. But that takes organisation and courage. They will treat us the same way as they treat the Yellow Vests and Catalans if we start being effective on the streets. That might be inevitable in the future under the EU’s control anyway.

        Time for a late lunch.

        1. Then there is always civil disobedience.

          There is always Civil War and that is where we are going!

          2. Brussels would like that Araminta.

            Gives them an excuse to garrison Britain with the EU Army.

      2. The ‘Boris Bounce’ is all well and good until the reality sets in. If the text of this deal treaty is much the same as May’s capitulation text then the UK is in for a very bumpy ride.
        £39,000,000,000, at least, in debt to the Brussels cabal with unspecified amounts to follow. Has the changed backstop agreement had the no exit clause removed or will we remain tied in when negotiating a FTA? Are our rights to the 200 mile limit being re-instated, the list goes on. It might be, in Johnson’s words, Brexit but are we OUT (silly question)?
        The turd that Johnson has attempted to polish is still an object of revulsion.

      3. Presumably the DUP want an even bigger bung for NI in return for their support. I would like to think that if they choose not to vote in favour then BoJo will immediately withhold any monies owing.

    3. BoJo said he was looking forward to working with Druncker.

      1. The hell he is.

      2. Druncker goes on 1st November.

      1. She should have set that out three years ago, but she is a bit stupid, even for a politician.

    1. “EU Confirms Free Trade Negations commence on the 1st November”

      I take it that that is a typo, but a remarkably prescient one, if the deal goes through.

  76. There is something over-eager about the idea of a “do or die deadline”
    – an already dangerous word smeared with a gratuitous dollop of
    Johnsonian rhetorical urgency. Ironically, a “deadline” was once a
    concept to be avoided, referring to a line prisoners could not cross,
    lest they be shot. And indeed, as the clock ticks, Brexiteers are
    starting to realise that the October 31 deadline could be lethal. For,
    if the PM has felt pressured into accepting a bad deal for fear of
    breaking his promise, any hope of a clean Brexit could be killed off.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/16/pms-great-brexit-gamble-sticky-fudge-noble-delay-could-backfire/
    Fluck this up BoJo I guarantee a “clean Brexit” wont be the only thing killed off

  77. How on earth can this tiny group of DUP politicians stand in the way of a Brexit deal? JANET DALEY. 17 OCTOBER 2019.

    Can this really be happening? Can this tiny group of DUP politicians who represent a population of roughly 2 million people (but not really even that since they cannot form a functioning government) actually be about to undermine a deal that almost everybody else – including the purist ERG MPs – is ready to accept and which the country and the EU – including the business and agricultural interests of Ulster – are crying out for?

    This is functional idiocy! The DUP like every other faction in Parliament is going to vote how it sees fit. It is not required to abandon its views and principles to fit in with the opposition simply for the sake of Janet Daley’s peace of mind!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/17/earth-can-tiny-group-dup-politicians-stand-way-brexit-deal/

  78. Tanáiste and Minister for Foreign Affairs Simon Coveney has said the new Brexit deal struck between London and Brussels is a “big step forward” that “protects the core Irish interests”.
    While cautioning that the deal had to be ratified by the British and European parliaments, Mr Coveney told the Dáil the agreement was a “very significant achievement… that is worth supporting”.
    The outstanding issues on VAT, consent and customs were settled between EU and British negotiators in talks that concluded earlier today.
    Mr Coveney confirmed that the DUP will not have a veto when it comes to the new agreement.

    1. I really don’t give a stuff about protecting Irish interests. What about fully protecting the interests of the U.K. and British people? If the S. Irish interests need protecting that’s an eussr problem.

  79. Should Boris now go for broke and aim for a WTO Brexit. This will require a general election and a pact with Nigel Farage’s Brexit Party.

    As usual, Sherelle Jacobs expresses herself very well: (Sorry if this has already been posted)

    The PM’s ‘great Brexit gamble’ on sticky fudge over noble delay could be about to backfire
    SHERELLE JACOBS
    DAILY TELEGRAPH COLUMNIST
    Follow 16 OCTOBER 2019 • 8:39PM
    Save
    453
    Boris Johnson
    The devil will, of course, be in the detail. But Brexiteers have cause to be suspicious. CREDIT: BOB
    No 10 has dangerously miscalculated the Leaver public’s attitude to compromise
    There is something over-eager about the idea of a “do or die deadline” – an already dangerous word smeared with a gratuitous dollop of Johnsonian rhetorical urgency. Ironically, a “deadline” was once a concept to be avoided, referring to a line prisoners could not cross, lest they be shot. And indeed, as the clock ticks, Brexiteers are starting to realise that the October 31 deadline could be lethal. For, if the PM has felt pressured into accepting a bad deal for fear of breaking his promise, any hope of a clean Brexit could be killed off.

    The belief in Westminster that any deal is better than delay has some logic. Brexit has become adrenaline-free anticipation in the exhausted search of an ending. And, from the hyenish hysteria of Remainers to the soiled aroma of capitulating politicians, “nightmare” does not do justice to the desolate, multi-sensory torture of the last three-and-a-half years. It is also undeniable that, if there is a delay, many voters will defect to Nigel Farage, exasperated that another Tory PM has broken a sacred Brexit vow. But it would be a mistake to sign up to a worrying deal, for the sake of “October 31”. Many Leavers can smell the sickly seep of fudge in the near distance and would prefer to go hungry for now.

    This is not an intransigent or extreme position. Stabbing at a plate of Swedish meatballs, one Tory MP told me this week that the Brexiteers are “suffering from Stockholm Syndrome, terrified to leave Brexit purgatory”. But the idea that Leavers are reluctant to forsake the dystopian neatness of their spartan prison cells for the messy realism of a deal is wrong.

    It all comes down to that patronising cuddle of a word, “compromise”. Centrists have manipulated its meaning to make it synonymous with the sludgy middle. In fact, compromise means “accepting standards that are lower than is desirable”. A delayed Brexit is not desirable, but many Leavers are coming round to the view that, as long as we leave cleanly within the next few months via a Johnson-Farage pact, it is just about acceptable. Some even go so far as to say that they would prefer to Remain than condemn their country to a crummy deal for the sake of a “win”. This is such a noble example of compromise that the majority will find it hard to compute it in this era of cynicism.

    Some compromises are a compromise too far, though. Concessions that bind Britain to a regulatory level playing field with the EU are intolerable. So is the argument that ambiguous divergence between Northern Ireland and Great Britain is the price that Leavers must pay. Some Brexiteers have even called for the UK to untether itself from burdensome Belfast, grumbling that the Government spends more yearly supporting it than it pays to Brussels.

    But the chilly ecstasy of fiscal logic is no justification for the economic incarceration of Northern Ireland in the EU, partially or otherwise – even if the DUP can be bought off. The Union’s denigration for the sake of a deal would be a grotesque violation of the referendum’s spirit. Apart from democracy, Brexit is about pride. It stands for patriotic self-respect over national self-abasement, principled optimism over pragmatic pessimism, and geopolitical resistance against imperialistic abuse. The danger is that the expected divorce deal will amount to a “selfish Tory” Brexit – a rambling tract of fudge, failure and “fuck you”.

    The devil will, of course, be in the detail. Still, Leavers have cause to be suspicious. Sadly, many Tories with their patrician attitude to political rectitude, would sell their own grandmother to save the family china – as we saw when so-called Brexiteers supported Theresa May’s dismal Withdrawal Agreement .

    Morality aside, I doubt a deal will pass, not least because of Labour – which is already trying to block a Saturday parliamentary sitting to vote on it.

    Any politician who tries to make Northern Ireland Brexit’s sacrificial lamb risks ending up a lame duck. Instead, a WTO exit may be the only way to solve the border issue. The EU, Ireland and Britain have all said they will never enforce a border.

    And despite Remainer claims, what country would dare to take such a diplomatically hostile action as to lodge a complaint on the grounds that such an arrangement violates WTO rules? Even if there were customs duty checks on the island of Ireland, it is scaremongering to declare that this would fuel terrorism. The Irish authorities already police against excise duty offences, like smuggling booze and fuel across the border, without paramilitary backlashes.

    In the Brexit era, the Tory party is politics with its knickers around its ankles – ridiculous, degraded, and shameless. But there is a road to redemption. I suspect the PM committed to his October 31 deadline knowing there was a significant chance he would not be able to honour his promise, and that he would deal with that crisis when he came to it.

    This was the right assessment, made for the wrong reasons. Leavers who have had their intelligence insulted for the last three years may be tired, but they are clinging to their integrity for dear life. On balance then, a delay – if it paves the way to a clean Brexit – is better than a sellout.

  80. EU has just Confirmed that there will be no extension to Brexit . That pulls the rug from out of the feet of the Lib-Dems and Labour

    2. I wonder if Vince Cable, David Lammy, Dominic Grieve, Caroline Lucas and the others ever got to ask the EU for an extension?

      2. They will have been shown the WA and PD and realise that it’s Hotel California and be very happy.

          1. Given that the agreements appear to give the EU far more power over the UK in this limbo state than they have if we were still in, I’m not so sure.
            These people hate Britain, its culture and its history.
            Anything that leaves us totally subservient to the EU delights them.

    3. If Parliament vote against the deal, will the EU overrule them and declare it a done deal?

      2. Well parliament can vote against it but that means we go to the default of No deal; as I understand it. The EU have ruled out an extension. Boris might technically have to ask the EU for an extension and they will then refuse it

      1. They must be hoping that that will be the nudge needed to get the ghastly thing through the HoC.
        Our remainer traitors will choose the surrender over a clean Brexit.

        1. The only real option left for Labour and the Lib-Dems is a General Election and they dont seem to want that

      2. It appear the EU have guaranteed there will be no extension. It shoots down the Lib-Dems plan and it really forces the commons to pass Boris deal as if they do not we default to No Deal

  81. Hillingdon Hospital forced to close child wards over ‘structural failure

    Engineers spotted subsidence at Hillingdon hospital, prompting the Peter Pan, Wendy and Tinkerbell wards to be shut amid concerns about safety.

    The problems were described as ­“significant building failure to the sub-structure, rendering parts of the building inoperable”.

  82. Here’s the first warning. Johnson, like May proposed, will leave us exposed to all and any meddling by the corrupt cabal without the power to stop them. Why won’t our politicians cut the umbilical to Brussels once and for all and have them leave us alone? Trade is trade and can carry on, anything else is meddling and control.

    https://twitter.com/BrexitHome/status/1184826497481297920

  83. Whilst at my Barbers, I thought I heard JRM say to Parliament on Sky News, that “this new deal means we will leave the EU (…..) by 31st December 2020”. I hope I am wrong.

    2. I believe that to be correct. My current understanding is there is a transition arrangement until December 2020

  85. Sent an e-mail today to my mp, Andy Slaughter. Won’t do any good and I don’t expect a reply but there are pro-EU banners hanging from the lamp posts along Wood Lane (London W12), which appeared this morning. It’s very redolent of the Third Reich and yes, I know London is to all intents already occupied territory but I still find it highly objectionable.

  87. Reflecting on the present court case re. the protests against LGBT-teaching in a Birmingham primary school(s), the following points occurred to me:

    1. How would people have felt about this 20 years ago (say in 1996). I’m pretty confident the material would have been regarded as extreme and the presentation of it to primary school pupils would have been unacceptable to near 90% of parents.

    2. The protestors/objectors have at least two millennia of precedent and tradition on their side. The teachers here have a few years (of regarding this by merely a minority as acceptable/suitable. Taking mankind as a whole throughout this history, I would guess that 99.5% of primary school parents – past and present – would be against this material, especially in school.

    3. Is there a free commercial market (as opposed to a PC-fuelled public sector.How would sales of a picture-book of 2 male penguins wanting a baby (egg) sell relative to a book about ordinary (non gender-confused) penguins. My guess is that even here, in the snowflake infected, UK there is no commercial market.

    I rest my case.

    1. The Birmingham parents should be grateful that their nippers are not attending compulsory masturbation lessons.
      A few miles up the road ….

  88. Legal bid at Court of Session to stop MPs passing ‘illegal’ Brexit deal

    Anti-Brexit campaigners have launched a legal bid to stop the UK government from passing its proposed EU withdrawal agreement.

    2. So the default position is still that we leave the EU without a deal? Juncker has stated clearly that no extension is possible and even with Luxembourg and Brussels viagra they can’t draw it out any longer.

      1. Well the Benn legislation says if there is no deal Boris has to ask the EU for an extension so if the MP’s vote down Boris’d deal he has to ask the EU for an extension that they will refuse so unless they can come up with another ploy to block it in the next few days we would leave without a deal(This is assuming the MP’s vote down the deal. I think they may well have to accept

        1. Will they go for the Nuclear option and have a debate on stopping Brexit.?The Remainers are getting desperate now and with all the powerful people behind them it could be their only chance to thwart Brexit.

          2. See above Bill. Juncker has said there will be no extension of Article 50. That would comply on the EU rules on Article 50 extension.

          3. I hope you’re not correct – a Bill to Revoke Article 50. After all, it would appear that Remainers have nothing to lose by doing so.

          4. It’s a good job no Parliament can bind its successors. We’ll have to wait until 2022 for a true Brexit when a sensible Parliament can repeal the Remainer’s legislation.

          6. The EU can do a LOT of damage in three years, A_A. They could even block “anti-European” – ie, anti-EU – parties from being able to stand. It has already been talked about a year or so ago.

          7. Will Bercow the Berk be the key player? It would be his swansong and he could go out on, in his judgement, a high.

  89. Can anybody give a clear account of the way is which Boris’s WA is any better – or indeed any different from May’s surrender deal?

    All we get from Boris is hot air – the depressing smell of a gloomy fart. He says it’s a great deal but he does not specify how it is a great deal or what has been changed from May’s capitulation.

    3. Transition period allegedly to cease at end 2020 instead of May’s much longer, maybe never, agreement. LBC’s political editor did mention a couple of other items but they were so Earth shattering in scope, I’ve forgotten them.
      I will listen to Farage this evening, he will give a frank appraisal of the “deal”. I’m hoping that Lawyers for Britain will be on the case tout suite.

      1. But no one in Westminster/Whitehall will take the slightest notice of any sensible legal opinion.

  90. Kevin McCloud property firms face liquidation

    I remember seeing a TV program on some of the properties years ago.. They all fell way behind schedule and went way over budget sand had endless problems

    In August, the firm wrote to bondholders to inform them that they could lose up to 97% of their investment.

    Mr McCloud resigned from both firms in March last year.

    People who put money into two businesses started by Grand Designs star Kevin McCloud face the prospect of losing almost their entire investment.
    HAB Land Finance, named after Mr McCloud’s Happiness Architecture Beauty brand, raised £2.4m from 280 people.
    But investors could be almost wiped out after the company and its owner, HAB Land – which was set up to buy sites for housing estates in Oxford and Winchester – called in liquidators.
    Mr McCloud had advertised 8% returns.
    However, according to KPMG, which has been appointed to liquidate the two companies, the firms were hurt by a period of “difficult trading”.
    In 2017, Mr McCloud had told potential investors his company was delivering “triple bottom line returns with progress on energy positivity”.
    Those potential investors were pitched so-called “mini-bonds” with 8% returns to crowdfund the projects in Oxford and Winchester.
    Almost 300 people put their money in to lend HAB Land Finance £2.4m to build the estates.
    But they have not seen a return on that investment.

  91. Barnier: ‘The text should provide legal certainty in every area of Brexit’

    Legal certainty that we shall be screwed?

    The whole WA must be published in full and gone through with a fine tooth comb by a clever lawyer who can spot all the snares and traps and bring them to our attention.
    .

    1. AS I understand it it will be released once the EU has signed it off and the Commons have approved it

      1. The Commons are going to accept a suspicious package without knowing whether it contains a ticking bomb.
        Brilliant

      2. In all seriousness I recall trying to download a version of the Treaty of Lisbon that had been ratified but the text was still not available, yet.

    2. rastus – this has already been done and there are several webpages that list the many problems with it. I did type this in a reply to another comment below, but it is more relevant here and I’ve changed it:

      “These media reports do show the deliberate confusion that has been created in people’s understanding of what is happening and the smokescreen of the importance of the “Backstop.”

      The main 500+ page Withdrawal Agreement is locked, done and dusted. It has not been re-opened or changed. It is the same deal that Theresa May tried to bind us with. The bit that they are pretending is the most important part was added on as an afterthought just to create something that they could distract people with.

      We have heard from an EU official that there is concern about whether this bit of the deal that they ARE tinkering with can be “put into legal language” in time to be agreed this week. That should tell you all that you need to know.

      This tiny part of the deal might not be ready in time. The idea that the original 500+ page Withdrawal Agreement could be opened, re-written, then put into legal language by the end of this month is obviously impossible.”

      So, as they have not changed the agreement that May tried to get though, the drawbacks of it are already known. It was the deal that Jacob Rees-Mogg said made us a “vassal state of the EU.”

      It will keep us in transition for years and unable to function as a Nation State, until they have imported enough new voters to win a rigged 2nd referendum and take us fully into the club. During “transition” the EU will bring in new laws that we are forced to obey and Asset-Strip the United Kingdom as far as possible.

      At some point those trying to defend Boris’s position will be forced to see what kind of deal he is trying to get. “Freedom in 6 years with a trade agreement” is not leaving the EU in November.

  92. Mystic Rik has a new prediction,the lads that hauled the ER loons from the trains will be prosecuted to the fullest extent possible,no catch and release for them

  93. Transport Perlice side with protesters. The exasperated commuters were howwid to the lovely Anarchists and will be prosecuted.

    Makes me sick.

    Where is Priti Awful? She said she was going to be tough on all this sort of bollux. All sari and no kameez.

  94. Commuters who attacked Extinction Rebellion Tube protesters could face police investigation

    The actions of commuters who dragged Extinction Rebellion Tube protesters from the roof of a train are being investigated by the police as it emerged one of the activists is a Buddhist teacher.

    British Transport Police have made eight arrests after protesters who climbed on top of roofs of Underground carriages were removed by commuters who feared for the safety of those on the roof on Thursday morning.

    The bold is my addition to the DT article.

    Once again, evidence that the Police have been told to target the disrupted, rather than the disrupters who, in the case of Canning Town Tube Station, were merely removing the disrupters from a hazard to a place of safety – as required under the Health & Safety At Work Act 1974.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/17/commuters-drag-extinction-rebellion-protester-roof-train-activists/

    1. BBC Radio 4 News at lunchtime had one commentator saying that the RG group had chosen the wrong demographic.for their demonstration. Some of the commuters were going home from nightshift at the time

    2. Quelle surprise.
      Already predicted by NOTTLers and probably most of the British population.

    3. Hopefully the police are only covering their backsides and that they will be de arrested

  95. How’s the BoJo meter??

    Swinging wildly between he’s played a blinder of genius proportions knowing it
    won’t get through Parliament whilst getting round the Benn Act because
    he has a “deal” through to the other extreme which is he’s just killed
    the Tory Party.

    1. I don’t particularly trust Bojo, but what a delicious irony it would be if the ‘deal’ is rejected and his “we will obey the law” turns out to be obedience to Lisbon treaty article 50 which cannot be overruled by the Benn act!

  96. Max pax a punch.

    Max Bonamy 17 Oct 2019 5:36AM

    “… no-one seems to be taking into account the views of Conservative Remain voters who, like me, have reluctantly accepted the results of the 2016 referendum but would never vote for a party advocating a harmful no-deal Brexit, not least because of anxiety about the Union.

    Fiona Annesley
    Brora, Sutherland

    First, for all the histrionics of the SNP there is no Scottish majority for independence; and, for Northern Ireland, the danger lies not in a clean Brexit but it being sold off in a Boris bid to save the Tory family china.

    Now for Miss Annesley’s tiresome and unfounded canard that leaving the EU ‘must be harmful’, whilst remaining ‘must be good’. Where to begin?

    An independent Britain can shape its own destiny in a free and unencumbered manner sensitive, responsive and directly accountable to the British demos.

    It a fast-changing world Britain plc can be nimble, lean and quick, stealing an easy march on cloddish, over-regulated competitors.

    It can make deals with any country in the world it wants.

    Re immigration, it can invite the best and deport the worst.

    It can preserve and bolster the very best of itself, its traditions, its energy, its creativity that, frankly, are second to none when allowed free reign and expression.

    In contrast to this entrepreneurial, go-getting, spirited outlook the EU offers a diet of stodgy debilitating trans-fat. Mired in debt, the bloated inefficient construct accounts for an ever-diminishing share of world GDP.

    As much observed, 90% of British business does not transact with the EU in any shape or form and yet is 100% burdened by its red tape. How can any so-called ‘Conservative’ think this is okay?

    Brexit has, of course, also exposed the rot in our own edifice. As Lord Nash pointed out yesterday the lack of commercial and real-world experience in both Houses is hugely to blame for the dismal quality of our negotiations to-date. Our dullards, grown fat on the cud of groupthink and the public sector, are clueless. BRINO / Remain would remove all incentive for any of this to change. Again I ask, how can any so-called ‘Conservative’ think this okay?

    And what of the EU Political Project? A cannibalistic bureaucratic leviathan consuming all before it with not a shred of democratic accountability in its autocratic bones. The current President a third-rate German politician who was the only candidate the puppet-masters in Brussels allowed to be put forward.

    In the event Ursula van Whatshername won 50.9% of the vote against no opposition. It’s impossible to exaggerate the Orwellian nightmare of this anti-democratic farce, yet Miss Annesley and fellow ‘Conservatives’ apparently think this is just dandy and acceptable collateral damage for ‘the holy grail’ of membership.

    I am at a loss at the critical thinking of such people. Conservative Party supporters maybe, but conservative free-market libertarians? Absolutely not.

    It is simply not possible to believe in the efficacy of EU membership and yet claim in the same breath to be a democrat. The pair do not not occupy the same space. Over 40 years, Brussels, in words and deeds, has made it plain to all but the dimmest lightbulb it does not intend they SHOULD occupy the same space.

    I’m all for a broad church – but when it becomes so broad attempting to accommodate those whose views undermine the structure itself, the roof collapses.

    Miss Annesley and her ilk would be happier, and true conservatives would happier too, if they went and worshipped in a different church more reflective of their views. Let’s see which gets the better footfall.

    1. It does show that those MP’s who are trying to avoid freedom from the EU, otherwise known as a WTO Brexit, are deliberately acting against our interests.

      They know the benefits of being a Nation State and the massive threat that the EU poses to our future if we stay under their control.

    2. The killer will be if Boris has agreed to the EU’s demand for ‘a level playing field’, so the rUK (less NI, i.e. GB ) can’t ‘shape its own destiny in a free and unencumbered manner sensitive, responsive and directly accountable to the British demos’.

    2. As with May, our fishing grounds will be up for grabs during the FTA negotiations, according to Nigel Farage. We know how that will end, don’t we? Johnson’s reply to Owen Paterson shortly after becoming leader was mere words for effect. So much for all the talk of rebuilding the industry, creating jobs and earning a few billion quid.

      2. Not really true. Which this deal we gain control of our fishing ground. It may be during trade negotiations we may true to give the EU some limited access to our fishing grounder under a licence arrangement

          1. Of course. I am sure that the French and German farmers will pay them at least the minimum wage (if they bring their own tractors).

        3. Nonsense! Under the terms of the WA we will be subject to the controls of the EU without any say. This means that the quotas* in respect of fish in our EEZ will be allocated by the EU without any UK representation or any right to complain. That is in black and white.
          Similarly, of course, the EU will decide if there will be any subsidies paid to UK farmers during this entirely unnecessary, spurious and fraudulent “transition” period. Somehow , I don’t think that UK farmers will be getting much back from the EU after the end of this month.
          What kind of barmy licence arrangement do you imagine? We have the fish. Our fish. Our industry. You are suggesting we give it away to foreign fishermen and foreign fish processors?

          * These quotas could be unlimited of course…

          1. Simply untrue. We are leaving the Single Market and Customs Union with the exception of NI which will be half in and half out

          4. LBC’s political guru mentioned the transition will end in 14 months. If true then less time to damage our fish and agriculture but is that the whole story? I checked Lawyers for Britain’s website about an hour ago (bit premature but one lives in hope) but found nothing on this new “deal”.

          5. Under Boris’s deal the current understanding is the transition period ends at the end of 2020, Whether it can be shortened if the trade deal is completed earlier I don’t know

          6. Unlimited quotas of our fish to French, Spanish and others. None to us.
            No subsidies to UK farmers after October 31st 2019.

          8. There is a story that the Assyrian Empire was so well ruled and so well ordered that a young virgin carrying a pot of gold on her head could walk naked across the entire Empire unmolested.
            We are that naked young woman carrying a pot of gold, and we are attempting to cross a transition period in the European Empire. Does anyone really think that we shall emerge from the transition period unmolested?

          9. After all of the extensions to Article 50, I have absolutely NO belief in the politicians if they say when this “transition period” will end. The EU has never had this level of control over the United Kingdom before, so they are not going to give that up until they have drained this country dry.

            However many years that they can drag it out is how long the transition period will last.

        4. I thought that was what I wrote except that I do not expect someone of Johnson’s stripe to fight too hard if the prize is an FTA he can put his name to.

  99. Today’s mail to Mr Redwood……………………

    Juncky and Verhofywaffle sound very keen on Deal Boris and his WA, and they’re trying to bounce Westminster into it by saying no extension…. so the deal is certain to be terrible for the Brits.

    Both guys of course are best friends with G S. What a coincidence !

    Much better and a lot safer to hang out for No Deal, and be the boss of your own destiny instead of being beholden to them for years to come.

    Polly

  101. The fact that the EU gauleiters are putting so much pressure on to the UK to accept the deal shows just how good it is for them and by extrapolation just how bad it will be for the UK.

    I hope to goodness that there are sufficient MPs to torpedo it, even if it means a GE, the “deal” is so bad.

    2. Well it was a negotiated agreement that both parties signed up tp so hardly surprising

  103. Next up come the FTA negotiations which will drag on forever… and Boris will probably give everything away, just like he gave away Northern Ireland.

      1. Warkworth, Northumberland.

        The bridge is late 14th Century. Church construction began 1132.

          2. Until that new bridge was built in 1965 the old one still carried the A1068 road to Alnwick., carrying buses, wagons, the lot. The passage through the south portal would struggle to accommodate a modern car’s width.

  105. Cobyn keeps spouting total rubbish about workers rights and Environmental standards etc

    The simple fact is on November the 1st all relevant EU legislation is taken in to UK law. The Boris’s deal also covers this. Potentially future changes to EU legislation would be down to us as to whether we adopt any of those changes

  107. Oh the irony.

    17 October 1529 Henry VIII of England strips Thomas Wolsey of his office for failing to secure an annulment of his marriage.

    If only HM QE2 would do similarly.

  108. WTO here we come peeps! It says on the front of the DT – “Juncker rules out extension” – yippee and “DUP and Labour say they cannot support the Agreement!” Yehaaaaa or however it’s spelt, bring it on.

    1. The deal gets rejected and remainer MP’s vote through a withdrawal of article 50 before 31 October, the extension deadline and we’re back to square one?

      Remainer MPs vote for a second referendum and the EU have stated that they will extend in thiose circumstances.

      Remainer MPs force a GE also getting an extension.

      We’re nowhere near out of the woods.

      Sorry to be such a pessimist over this.

        1. My very quick run-through earlier came to very similar conclusions.
          It ONLY changes NI arrangements in any material sense.

      2. OT – had a pine marten in the garden today. Bold as brass, middle of the day. Probably the little sod that’s been gnawing through cables in the roof void.

        1. Apparently they like raspberry jam sandwiches. That’s what they use to attract them to photograph them in Scotland.

          True.

        2. You have to admit that they are very handsome looking creatures.

          Very, very bad news if it’s in your roof. They are fastidious about using the same midden and when your ceiling falls down, because of the midden, the stench will be be unbelievable.

          A bit like Boris’s agreement.

          1. I’ve been up there and cleared it, it wasn’t too bad. As a deterrent I’ve put camphor tablets up there. A Larsen trap on the ground bated with an egg didn’t fool it. Maybe I should try a jam sandwich, as suggested by bassetedge!

          2. Look on the bright side; it’s a handsome beast. Enjoy its forays into the garden.

            It also eats things you don’t want in the house.
            As long as it isn’t in the roof, live and let live.

            You were lucky to get its midden cleared before it caused a problem, a friend of ours had the “full nine yards”; collapsed ceiling, gunge everywhere, and as is to be expected for such things, it happened while they were away. The stench was appalling and lasted for ages. Not covered by insurance either!

    3. I have heard that interpretation, too. I will, however, believe it when I see it. There is many a slip ‘twixt cup and lip. Still, I have a bottle of fizz in the fridge just in case.

      1. I have had my bottle of fizz in the fridge for over 6 months now, it’s probably only good for putting down the kitchen sink.

      2. Having just read Rik’s post and attachment utter deflation has set in although my earlier euphoria was a little forced. In my heart of hearts I think we will end up being kept in the EU by those bar steward MPs. I have thought all along that, if at all, it would be BRINO. But in the long run we are powerless. We are stuffed.

        1. It looks bad, but they can only hold us for so long if we choose to be free. If you do not have a Redwood as your local MP then get rid of them. Any agreement that our MP’s trap us in can be ripped to pieces after the next election.

          Snatching our freedom from the Remainers claws, when they thought that they had beaten us, will taste all the sweeter for this setback.

          1. My understanding is that it is deliberately written as a treaty in such a way as to prevent it being overturned by a new Government. Think Gibralter, Spain and the treaty of Utrecht

          2. Sosraboc – yes that is true, but it can be ignored. If you walk into a new job and find a suicide note on the desk, you do not kill yourself, you rip it up and get on with the work at hand.

            It does not matter what this bunch of traitors has written to a foreign power. They are working against the express will of the people, and those countries such as the USA and Australia etc. will be cheering us from the rafters as we turn this Withdrawal Agreement into confetti.

            The Remainers and the EU will be sad. But that is because they are empty inside.

          3. I agree, but getting it through International courts might be difficult.

            It’s not territory I would wish to enter as enforcement could even mean war. Falklands?

          4. sosraboc – I have been over this subject for months with people who know the law far better than I, but I am off for the night now. In short, it does not matter what they THINK they have tied us to, it can be repealed with a minimum of legal interpretation. We have seen the Remainers do the same thing with the law far too often.

            As to international courts – the world is about to be fighting an islamic invasion for survival, so the idea of these “courts” will not be a priority in the future. As for aggression – the EU can try it with their dinky militarised police force, but I fancy the United Kingdoms chances in any such fight. 🙂

            I am off for the night now. Don’t let the bas*ards get you down. They might be gloating now at our betrayal, but the United Kingdom has a record of wiping the smiles off of tyrants faces.

          5. We may have right on our sides, but the remainiacs have the law lords and courts on theirs 🙁

          6. Conway – Then we change our politicians and then our new MP’s can sweep these satanic bar-stewards out of their cosy offices. It will be hard for a former “law lord” to stop us leaving the EU when they are standing in line at a soup kitchen. 🙂

            The choice to change things is ours.

          7. I am well aware of that, Meredith, but I’m also well aware of the problems of overcoming inertia. I have campaigned for a change of MP and will be doing so again (as a UKIP member). I know ogga gets a lot of stick, but he’s right that people have voted for the same old, same old and if they get the same old, same old, they have no one but themselves to blame. We need a root and branch clear out.

          9. vw – My posts can be a bit bleak at times, but only because a lot of us saw this coming a mile off. But the future of our country is ours to shape. The Remainers are in the minority for now and are clearly acting against the interests of our country. So I know that they can be stopped.

            The only thing that can doom our country is the type of person who will still choose to vote for Theresa May instead of The Brexit Party. If we re-elect the same people that are stopping us leaving the EU, then we won’t leave.

            Labour have lost their “Leave” seats and have no chance of winning an election as their party falls apart faster than the EU does. Although the pro-eu News will bombard you with the lie that Labour could win, just to keep you voting for the Theresa Mays.

            I’ve had enough of being lied to. I will be voting for my country to be free.

    4. So not in and not out. Liable to unknown amounts of cash to be paid. Military and fishing who knows. A stitch up that might leave us in the worst of all worlds.

  110. http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1979/1979-conservative-manifesto.shtml

    Please read this manifesto and remember a different time , different Tory aspirations .. and the sheer dwang that a Labour government got us into .

    1979 Conservative Party General Election Manifesto

    The European Community
    If we wish to play our full part in shaping world events over the next few critical years, we must also work honestly and genuinely with our partners in the European Community. There is much that we can achieve together, much more than we can achieve alone.

    There are some Community policies which need to be changed since they do not suit Britain’s – or Europe’s – best interests. But it is wrong to argue, as Labour do, that Europe has failed us. What has happened is that under Labour our country has been prevented from taking advantage of the opportunities which membership offers.

    Labour’s economic policies have blunted our competitive edge and made it more difficult for our companies to sell in our partners’ markets. What is more, the frequently obstructive and malevolent attitude of Labour Ministers has weakened the Community as a whole and Britain’s bargaining power within it.

    By forfeiting the trust of our partners, Labour have made it much more difficult to persuade them to agree to the changes that are necessary in such important areas as the Common Agricultural Policy, the Community budget, and the proposed Common Fisheries Policy.

    The next Conservative government will restore Britain’s influence by convincing our partners of our commitment to the Community’s success. This will enable us to protect British interests and to play a leading and constructive role in the Community’s efforts to tackle the many problems which it faces.

    We shall work for a common-sense Community which resists excessive bureaucracy and unnecessary harmonisation proposals, holding to the principles of free enterprise which inspired its original founders.

    Our policies for the reform of the CAP (see Chapter 3) would reduce the burden which the Community budget places upon the British taxpayer. We shall also strive to cut out waste in other Community spending programmes.

    National payments into the budget should be more closely related to ability to pay. Spending from the budget should be concentrated more strictly on policies and projects on which it makes sense for the Community rather than nation states to take the lead.

    We attach particular importance to the co-ordination of Member States’ foreign policies. In a world dominated by the super-powers, Britain and her partners are best able to protect their international interests and to contribute to world peace and stability when they speak with a single voice.

    1. As a life-long Conservative voter I can only see a handful of real ones left in the party that I voted for since the first time. My current Conservative MP is a Liberal in disguise, so I am voting for the Brexit party when the election comes. Our country is running out of time.

        1. I have a number one all around, but I do it myself. It is easy, apart that the very back of your head obviously. That can take some mirror work to make sure you’ve got it.

          You feel so “clean” afterwards with hair that short. 🙂

          I cannot imagine the hassle of actually shaving your head though. Doing the face every morning is quite enough.

          1. That’s when the name dated from but stuck long after the rate changed. During WWII perhaps, can’t be arsed to check I’m afraid.

  113. I can only assume that Boris thinks the new WA with be defeated by the WAnkers in parliament and now that the EU has said there will be no extension he can ignore the Benn(t) Act and with the stalemate try to force the Commons into a General Election.

    2. And then make a pact with The Brexit Party, deselect the traitors and then bring on a real Brexit after winning a thumping majority.

  114. If this ghastly “deal” and political declaration get voted through, I think of all the unpleasant things that will be happening the worst will be the gloating by the likes of Barnier over how they now have Britain exactly where they want us and how our treatment will put off any other nation from trying to escape the clutches of the Fourth Reich.

    1. We need a mass boycott of EU goods; I avoided EU fruit today in favour of some from Chile and Egypt. I had SA wine as well. There are alternatives.

      1. I’ve been doing that for about a year.
        British first: Commonwealth second: rest of the world third: EU very firmly last and only if completely unavoidable.

      2. I have a weakness for cheese. A bit Ben Gunnish. I’ve been trying the Comte version of Gruyère but will return to the Swiss stuff. Also Cornish Brie and Camenbert.

  115. Latest News Just In – The people who pulled the man off the train roof this morning are to be prosecuted.

    Their supporters are angry claiming that it was a missed carriage of justice.

    1. I suspect it was only the presence of mobile phones which actually prevented him from being lynched….

  116. LAST POST

    Having seen on Frog TV news the gloating faces of the EUSSR gauleiters and Merkel and Toy Boy and that flucker Barmier – I can tell that THEY know that the UK has been completely sold down the river by Johnson.

    Thank god for wine.

  119. QT tonight…

    Summary
    Fiona Bruce presents the topical debate from Leicester, inviting the studio audience to question a panel of politicians and other guests on current headline subjects. On the panel are Health Secretary Matt Hancock, Shadow Treasury Minister Anneliese Dodds, SNP Health Spokesperson Philippa Whitford, MEP for the Brexit Party Martin Daubney and Barnardo’s chief executive Javed Khan.

    2. Apart from Matt Hancock, I have never heard of any of the panelists. During Robin Day’s tenure of QT, almost all the panelists were well-known figures and household names. It is a sad reflection on the quality of our leaders today.

  120. Just watching the Six o Clock news, Thursday evening. Report from a Doncaster school. About 20 youngsters, maybe 6-7, sitting round the teacher.
    Guess What . . . . . Not one of them was “with colour” . . . OMG! !

  121. Just watching the Six o Clock news, Thursday evening. Report from a Doncaster school. About 20 youngsters, maybe 6-7, sitting round the teacher.
    Guess What . . . . . Not one of them was “with colour” . . . OMG! !

  123. The French Health Service

    On Monday a piece of filling came out of one of my teeth.

    We rang up the dentist’s surgery on Tuesday morning and got an appointment for this morning at 1130.

    The appointment started bang on time and the necessary work of drilling and refilling was done by 1200.

    The bill was 25 €

    1. It’s so cheap because the CRS keep generating loads of dental work for French Dentist across France….

    2. Current cost about 50 – 60 euros at an ordinary private dentist in Spain, using the more expensive white material.

    3. I could probably get the same service over here in Canada where dental care is not covered by the health system. However, the bill would be hundreds of dollars with the private practice.

  124. XII. FISHING OPPORTUNITIES
    71. The Parties should cooperate bilaterally and internationally to ensure fishing at sustainable
    levels, promote resource conservation, and foster a clean, healthy and productive marine
    environment, noting that the United Kingdom will be an independent coastal state.

    72. While preserving regulatory autonomy, the Parties should cooperate on the development of measures for the conservation, rational management and regulation of fisheries, in a nondiscriminatory manner. They will work closely with other coastal states and in international
    including to manage shared stocks.

    73. Within the context of the overall economic partnership the Parties should establish a new
    fisheries agreement on, inter alia, access to waters and quota shares.

    74. The Parties will use their best endeavours to conclude and ratify their new fisheries
    agreement by 1 July 2020 in order for it to be in place in time to be used for determining
    fishing opportunities for the first year after the transition period.

    2. When will you get it? The EU does NOT co-operate or use its best endeavours. It demands. And keeps on demanding.

      Where have you been for the last 3+ years?

  125. D. Illegal migration

    114. The Parties will cooperate to tackle illegal migration, including its drivers and its
    consequences, whilst recognising the need to protect the most vulnerable. This cooperation
    will cover:

    a) operational cooperation with Europol to combat organised immigration crime;
    b) working with the European Border and Coastguard Agency to strengthen the Union’s
    external border; and

    c) dialogue on shared objectives and cooperation, including in third countries and
    international fora, to tackle illegal migration upstream.

  126. IX. MOBILITY
    48. Noting that the United Kingdom has decided that the principle of free movement of persons
    between the Union and the United Kingdom will no longer apply, the Parties should
    establish mobility arrangements, as set out below.

    49. The mobility arrangements will be based on non-discrimination between the Union’s
    Member States and full reciprocity.

    50. In this context, the Parties aim to provide, through their domestic laws, for visa-free travel
    for short-term visits.

    51. The Parties agree to consider conditions for entry and stay for purposes such as research,
    study, training and youth exchanges.

    52. The Parties also agree to consider addressing social security coordination in the light of
    future movement of persons.

    53. In line with their applicable laws, the Parties will explore the possibility to facilitate the
    crossing of their respective borders for legitimate travel.

    54. Any provisions will be without prejudice to the Common Travel Area (CTA) arrangements
    as they apply between the United Kingdom and Ireland.

    55. To support mobility, the Parties confirm their commitment to the effective application of the
    existing international family law instruments to which they are parties. The Union notes the
    United Kingdom’s intention to accede to the 2007 Hague Maintenance Convention to which
    it is currently bound through its Union membership.

    56. The Parties will explore options for judicial cooperation in matrimonial, parental
    responsibility and other related matters.

    57. These arrangements would be in addition to commitments on temporary entry and stay of
    natural persons for business purposes in defined areas as referred to in Section III of this
    Part. Those commitments should not be nullified by the right of either Party to apply their
    respective laws, regulations and requirements regarding entry, stay and work.

    2. What’s new? They have carried out their unlawful protests right under the noses of the police who, for much of the time, have stood there watching their antics without lifting a finger. Conversely, if the eco-loons stop disrupting people’s lives they won’t need protection.

  131. VERY VERY LAST POST

    As I don’t look at the MSM – what are the remainiacs sayng about Johnson’s “deal”?

    If they are pleased – we are stuffed.

    If they are unhappy, we are stuffed.

    Good night. Sleep well.

  134. Venezuela has won a seat on the United Nations Human Rights Council,
    despite widespread criticism of its poor human rights record.

    A UN General Assembly meeting in Geneva saw the Latin American country elected to one of 14 new seats on the 47-member body.
    Words fail me……………….

    2. Despite honourable intentions, the creation of the UN has long since turned into a totally corrupt organisation unworthy of any respect. Rather like the EU, except that the EU was not created with honourable intentions.

  135. “The thing that distinguishes Extinction Rebellion from more
    established green movements is that it wasn’t founded to achieve change
    by winning over public opinion en masse, and thus prodding governments
    to act. Instead it’s founded on the idea that gradualism doesn’t work,
    while a critical mass willing to make life difficult for others can
    bring down even mighty systems.

    Although Extinction Rebellion
    supporters will differ over how far to push it, the original model is
    more of a revolutionary than a democratic one. And the clashes at
    Canning Town feel like an early warning of what can happen when the idea
    of public consent is brushed aside by people convinced they don’t have
    time for all that”.

    Yup! Now about Brexit…………………….

        1. By the look of them, they’ve got worms, crabs – all what they think is the edible stuff.

        2. Organic, innit.
          You can only get rid of worms by using those nasty chemicals produced by Big Pharma.

          1. There is another method…

            A bloke once had a tapeworm & wanted rid of it. His GP wasn’t helpful, so he turned to alternative medicine.

            He was advised that every evening for a month he should have beef stew followed by apple pie, but on the last night of the month he should have the stew but withhold the apple pie.

            “What’s the point of that?” he asked.

            He was told that if he waited a few minutes the tapeworm would think that the apple pie wasn’t coming & would thrust its head up his throat & out of his mouth, & ask, “Where’s the apple pie?” whereupon he should seize it & bash it with a mallet.

      2. Those idiots on the top of the train could easily have been killed. Remember these trains are driveless

    2. Yo Nik

      I have been sitting here pondering and come up with an idea.

      The Brexiteers will rename themselves Extinction of Remainers Rebellion

      We will go about our protests, mimicing the actions of the Extinction Rebellion (ER), totally.

      If our members are arrested and those of the ER do not, we will get the courts to decide, starting with the Remainer controlled Supreme one

      We will demand that all protesters are treated equally, for carrying out similar acts

      We will protest at Ali’s Snack Bar events, similar to how they eaters there have disrupted our Remembrance Day Parades (film footage is available)
      or blown us up, as in Manchester

      Prosecute anyone who tells a joke against heterosexuals.

      My prison cell is still booked for non payment of TV Tax, from May 2020

  136. If we are out of the single market, the customs union, no longer subject to the ECJ, we get our fishing grounds back and stop pouring billions into a corrupt, profligate and failing empire then I reckon that’s a minimum we are entitled to expect. A hard Brexit would certainly be great, of course – and if the clowns in the H of C are daft enough to vote down BoJo’s deal then that is what we will get. Either way, we can kiss goodbye to 3.5 wasted years, the ridiculous involvement of the Supreme Court in a political matter and Gina Miller crowing on the steps of a court with yet another ‘victory’. And I shall take a particular pleasure in seeing the Remainaics and their assorted betrayers, traitors and fifth columnists frothing at the mouth when it dawns upon them that they have finally failed to overturn the referendum result. How sweet that will be.

      2. Basically yes. The fishing grounds for example are covered in the political document and will be discussed there but there is no requirement to give the EU access to them. I have no doubt that the EU will bring up fishing rights during the trade negotiations

        Now with the trade talks we are not under time pressure we have 15 months
        Boris can negotiate as well May could not. I suspect there will be a trade off , We may give the Eu limited access to our waters under a licence agreement. These arangements are common. Iceland has such an agreement , It would also help us get a good trade deal

      2. Only for the time being – who knows what the EU will charge during the “transitional period”, during which their stance won’t change one iota.

      3. Just a distraction to get the cretins to vote it through Parliament.

        Once that’s done they can screw far more out of us.

        2. Using the £6bn to buy off 300 remainer MPs at £20,000,000 a pop to go for a no deal Brexit, (and I believe most would go for it), would be great value.

  138. From Spectator Coffee House:

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/five-reasons-why-boris-johnsons-brexit-deal-is-better-than-theresa-mays/

    “Five ways in which Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal is better than Theresa May’s | Coffee House

    Boris Johnson managed to defy his critics today and reach a Brexit deal with the European Union. The new agreement updates the Northern Ireland protocol of Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement and the Political Declaration, which deals with the future relationship. But while the rest of the deal appears to be unchanged, Boris has succeeded in winning some key concessions from the EU.

    Here are five reasons why Boris’s deal is better than May’s:

    1. The backstop is gone
    Firstly, the backstop that Theresa May negotiated with the EU has been replaced by a new Northern Ireland Protocol and the UK-wide Customs Union in the backstop has been removed completely. Northern Ireland will remain in the UK’s customs territory, which means its people will be able to benefit from any trade deals brokered by the UK after the transition period ends. The territorial sovereignty of the UK is kept intact and the country will have one common external tariff with the rest of the world (although goods coming into NI destined for the EU will pay the EU’s external tariff).
    The downside for Northern Ireland is that the region will have to remain, as before, inside the EU’s regulatory orbit for goods, to allow its border with the Republic of Ireland to remain open. Northern Ireland will remain aligned with the EU, and some checks may take place for goods travelling between Northern Ireland and Great Britain.
    But…

    2. Northern Ireland can leave if it wants
    In Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement, the UK and Northern Ireland could only break away from the backstop as long as the EU agreed on alternative arrangements. As the EU would have no incentive to do this, May’s agreement essentially meant that the UK and NI would either have to remain inside the Single Market and Customs Union, or risk being trapped in the backstop forever.
    In Boris Johnson’s deal, if Northern Ireland wants to leave the arrangement set out above, it can do so with a vote in the Stormont Assembly. The future of Northern Ireland will now be decided in Belfast, not Brussels. The DUP would not have a veto over this process, which explains its disappointment at the deal.

    3. Free trade deals can start on New Year’s Day 2021
    Under Boris Johnson’s agreement, the UK will be able to formally begin negotiating trade deals with the rest of the world as soon as the agreement is ratified by parliament. Until now, the uncertainty of the UK’s exit date from the EU has made genuine negotiations with most countries impossible.
    But once Boris Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement is passed, the UK will formally be able to conclude trade talks with the rest of the world. If the UK begins negotiating with the United States in earnest, a Free Trade Deal could be completed as soon as 1 January 2021, when the transition period of the deal ends.

    4. Goodbye to the level-playing field commitments
    Due to certain clauses in Theresa May’s Withdrawal Agreement, the UK would have been legally bound to the EU’s ‘level playing field’ rules – such as minimum standards on environmental policy and employment law. This meant the UK would not be able to seek certain competitive advantages when trading with countries around the world. In Boris Johnson’s deal, the UK’s commitment to a level playing field has been moved from the Withdrawal Agreement (which is legally binding) to the Political Declaration (which is not). This is the next phase of the Brexit talks. But whether the UK has to follow these rules or not will instead be decided in the negotiations on the future relationship, giving the UK greater leverage in the next stage of the talks.

    5. The UK still takes control of its money, borders and laws
    The UK will have left the EU by 31 October 2019. And as soon as the transition period ends, the country will take control of its money, borders and laws. Yes, there’s £33 billion of divorce payments – but we will take back control of the £13 billion a year that we send to the EU, saving at least £70 billion net over the next decade. The UK will have the ability to control its own borders, and if it wishes, end the free movement of people with the European Union, and replace it with its own immigration policy that prioritises and encourages high-skilled people to come and live and work in the UK. This would happen in January 2021.

    Now that the backstop has been removed, it also appears that ECJ’s jurisdiction has been massively reduced. The ECJ will still have jurisdiction over EU citizen’s rights for a time-limited period, and over disputes that relate to an interpretation of EU law in the WA. Northern Ireland will also be subject to some ECJ jurisdiction as long as it remains aligned to the EU. But once we leave, the UK will be free to set its own laws, in its own parliament, with its own elected representatives voting on legislation.”

    2. ECJ reduced?? Fluck them I want it gone or I will be there to burn Parliament to the ground
      Best I quit now or I will be arrested

      2. My lord,
        You stoop to betray your own people
        And even in the eyes of God do you not relent?
        I am therefore bound by no other course
        I shall raise an army
        Together, we will march against you and your kind
        And every born man will fight to regain his own freedom
        And cleanse his wretched soul.

        That sort of thing?

    3. Question.
      Who controls when the transition period ends?
      I suspect the EU holds all the aces.

    4. £33 billion that could have been spent in Northern Ireland rather than in the Southern Bit.

    5. ”Goodbye to the level-playing field commitments”

      That is so dishonest.

      Moving that commitment to the political declaration means Britons would have to break their promise for that to be true.

      1. No The political document is not legally binding and these aspects along with the trade deal will be discussed over the next 15 months

        1. But in the political declaration, Brits make certain undertakings, and to break those undertakings is to break a promise.

    6. So we don’t leave on October the 31st 2019. Unless Boris has a cunning plan…

    7. I am pleased, that the EU is paying us £33,000,000,000.00 in a divorce settlement. UK after all is the innocent party in this saga

  139. Night All

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cbfb81a975356bc2a0b02dd12606058c784cdf70f506e291ccb2b0ce6e4fdbc9.gif

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cb310dfb5eaec25fcf1de4f8f6b7fb951461b160c68373e253bc099fe5960645.gif

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d317c8c3cae57cc076017eb2e9cf1f434704b30a4fed2acd9a4e69d6accf4eed.gif

    I have drink taken,best I quit

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dc44068b70e8bb12f25f8cd11e4f9c39e95fada9e9f8932212d51c00ac04bfdd.gif

  140. – Just been asked by my power supplier if I wanted a smart meter, don’t worry I said, I have already dressed my old one with a bow tie and dinner jacket.

    1. In order to get a lower tariff we had to express an interest in having a smart meter. Which is what we did…. and sent them on their way a few times when they tried to make an appointment. I don’t suppose this will be available to us next year from our current provider (but you never know), so we may have to try the same with a new provider. There are quite a few for us to go through over the coming years.

          2. Thank you but it’s more like atta husband! They did phone us but we have a call- blocker so we blocked them after the first sentence… we have had two or three circulars through the post about smart meters but that’s about it. Off they go for re-cycling. It is always possible though that other providers may be more determined. To go back to the call-blocker, it’s so much fun! You just thump a fairly large red button and bish-bash-bop they’re gone never to be heard from again – at least from that number. I love it…! And I used to be so polite….

            I guess we will probably have to change suppliers next year, I can’t see them (Southern Electric) letting us get away with it again. We will have to try someone else; Poppiesdad (who is suffering from shingles at the moment) will probably try the same with another provider. Play them at their own game.

          3. In Sweden I had caller identification. My boss, who was a bitch of the first water, would often ‘phone me out of hours from a withheld number. As she was the only one who did this, I soon learnt to ignore her calls.

          4. There do seem to have been a great many women in your life that have upset you. Strange you weren’t married to any of them. Anyhoo..How is Garcia?

  141. “Sir Keir
    said the new deal “paves the way for a decade of deregulation” and
    argued it would give the Government “licence to slash” worker,
    environment and consumer protections.”

    These toffs are counting their chickens, and he shouldn’t be boasting about slashing workers’ rights until he gets into power.

    1. That is total rubbish by Keir as ob day 1 we take the EU legislation into UK law. Potential after that point we could deviate if the EU update their standards we dont have to follow them although the none binding political document suggest we would work together to try to align our workers rights and environmental standards a lot of which originate in any case from the ISO

      1. I do not think you are the Bill Jackson as was once upon a time. And what is all this ‘we’?

    1. Parked at the Chunnel Railway terminal, awaiting notification from Mr S to proceed to UK

    2. They’re all super-glued on, Bob, they’re frightened of getting tired and dropping off.

      2. Indians dropping off trains, families of 4-on-scooters-mown-down-by-lorries, women burned to death by kerosene in the kitchen, buses of 70 passengers falling into ravines (driver drunk or drugged) ….. these are all common methods of population control in India …. yet still too small to stop poulation increasing (un)steadily

  144. Who rules the British roost during the ”transition period” ?

    The EU fox, also known as The G S Organization.

    1. We leave the EU on the 31st. During the transition period we move onto discussing aspects in the political document as well as working on the trade deal

      1. Lol.

        Brits do not theoretically leave until the end of the transition period during which time the EU can push you around all they like.

        In fact, thanks to all the future give aways such as fishing and level playing field considerations, Brits never really leave properly at all.

        1. We leave on the 31st. We do not need to give our fishing rights up . I have no doubt it will come up during trade negotiations and we can reach an agreement on fishing rights with the EU or we may not reach an agreement. No agreement may affect the trade deal but we can walk away if we want to. WE are not under time pressures as we have 15 months for these talks. We will be in a strong position with these negotiations but negotiations are always a two way thing

          1. Brits are in an incredibly weak position. The whole purpose of these negs is for Brits to get free trade.. for which the EU is going to exact such a heavy price that Britain, in many respects, will never leave at all.

          2. It is entirely in how hands. WE can walk away at the end of the 15 months and go to WTO. I dont think we will need to. We have a PM now that belives in Brexit and can negotiate and we hve the luxuary of time

          3. Come off it. WTO is never going to happen. Empty threats will get nowhere with the EU which holds all the cards because the Cons are so weak.

            Boris says he believes in Brexit but there’s no proof he believes in it, in fact I think Brexit for him is just a career move.

          4. If the deal goes through we will go to a General Election which hopefully Boris will win and gain a working majority. That approach has risk but the alternative of trying to carry on with a minority government is even higher

          5. That doesn’t detract from the fact that in the upcoming negs, the EU holds all the cards.

          7. They hold the ace. Trade.

            Brits will be made to jump high to get it, so high that they might as well have remained.

            The only way to leave is No Deal.

      1. Damask Rose is also missing. I believe some arsehole on here alienated her.

        Not sure. I cannot be bothered to search recent posting histories. A pedant might have been involved but then we entertain quite a few of those.

  146. 1 hour to get from Waterloo to W2. Took an hour and 15 minutes by blackish Cab. £27.00. No wonder they are dragging them off the roof on the Underground. Some people need to work for a living.

    I was on a Theatre trip and it was horrendous. Not the Theatre…i might add. That was sublime. By the time it ended they had all retreated to their makeshift hovels and Police cells with their tavpayer funded vegan swill.

    I got to meet in person Sir Ian McKellen. I asked him for Sir Pat Stews’ autograph. He said he thought i was so funny i should be on the stage…….The first one leaving. :o(

      1. I lived for a while at Canary Wharf. I didn’t get flooded. I was on the 20th floor. Don’t know if he was there in 95 but i wouldn’t have gone Star hunting. Not done dontcha know…

        1. He doesn’t live there its just a very fine watering hole that the Thames occasionally tries to innundate…

          4. Just trying to watch Dark Star, but I keep stopping for wine and fits of the giggles. I definitely haven’t seen it for 45 years but it’s an amazingly funny film.

  147. That’s me for this Sell Out Day. I think I’ll join Extinction Anarchists – they seem to get more rights than the rest of us.

    A demain.

    2. Night, Bill! Given XR’s propensity for dressing up as vegetables, do you have your trombetti costume ready?

      1. Barmy maybe, but she sunk an enemy warship, the first successful combat mission by a submarine.

    2. Johnny, these nightly short films of WWII topics are really fascinating. Thank you so much for posting them.

  149. Confirmatory Vote

    We should have confirmatory vote but using the transferable vote system. Options as below

    Option 1 ) Accept Boris’s deal
    Option 2) Accept Mays deal
    Option 3) No deal
    Option 4) Remain

    Round 1 The option that gets the lowest vote has its votes transferred to the voters 1st option
    Round 2 The option that gets the lowest vote has there votes transferred to their chosen option
    Round 3 The option with the lowest vote has the votes transferred to their chosen option

  150. Evening, all. I am sure that those in Westminster are far from “misinterpret[ing] the Brexiteers’ ethos”. They are, in fact, actively working to subvert it.

      1. What’s wrong with the writing in the Express? They all get their news from the same source and then put their own spin on it, FGS.

      2. In the past it was easy to predicate a result but not now

        We can be pretty certain that none of the SNP will vote for it nor the Green MP, Most Lib-Dems will not vote for it . May be a bit more of an unknown for those that defected

        Nearly all the Conservatives will vote for it others that lost the whip may be pulled back into the fold. At least half a dozen Labour MP’s for it others may as well but impossible to predict , The DUP may yet be won over

  152. Parliament to be prorogued from Monday in order to carry out the necessary preparations for Brexit on the 31st October

    2. The more I see politicians doing circus tricks, the more I feel that they think that Pariament is just there as entertainment and a distraction for us plebs from what they are getting up to when there are no invited cameras.

      1. They are living in Neverland. I passed by Parliament today and they have three solid barriers from the road. Two within and armed to the teeth. I am left wondering who they are afraid of.

        1. They aren’t afraid of what terrorists or anyone else will get up to outside their ring of concrete.

          We’re all in this together, terrorism will not change our way of life.

          I remember them promising that.

          Often.

  154. We just need to get the blasted Brèxit beast over the line
    and leave, things can always change later and probably will.
    but if we don’t leave by the 31/ 10/ 19 then the remainers
    Will continue their plotting for another referendum,
    everyone in the country is just sick of the entire thing and wants
    It finished.

  156. I have had such a nice day. Coming back from London and no problems after my little jaunt. What makes my evening though is seeing Bill and Polly looking to get married. So sweet for the rest of us… :o(

    1. Where did you see your play Phizzee, and was the theatre well attended ..

      The thought of going anywhere near London terrifies me .. I was so shocked to see how packed Waterloo was , and I don’t do the underground .. hate escalators and tubes!

          2. I’m glad to hear you aren’t a shaking wreck. It’s just I’ve noticed you expressing alarm and fear recently about various situations and I was concerned that things might be getting on top of you.

          4. Not much I can do to help at this distance, I’m afraid, if things are getting a bit much. Try mindfulness and deep breaths and see if that helps. When I had my ‘flu jab, my shoulder hurt, my hand on that side became swollen and my neck was stiff! I don’t normally get any sort of reaction to jabs, but this was a humdinger! I put it down to being caught by surprise; I took MOH in for a follow-up appointment and while we were there, the MO decided to vaccinate us both! 🙂

      2. Good evening, Belle.

        It was the Harold Pinter Theatre just off the Haymarket. Very busy with people out enjoying themselves. It was a fab night out though. Don’t be put off by all the negativity.

        It wasn’t a play although the second half felt like it………all of some bloke called Bill Shackspeer or sumfin’….

        Ian McKellen..
        But soft, what light through yonder window breaks? It is the east, and Juliet is the sun. That thou, her maid, art far more fair than she.

        He brought most of Shakespeare to life and it was wonderful.

        His Titus Androndicus sent shivers through me.

        Loved every minute.

        1. Gosh, he is a theatre great.. and has acting gravitas.. his voice will be your earworm for a long while yet ..

          Delighted you enjoyed your visit.

          We are having a thunderstorm here .. Very squally and the rain is coming down like stair rods.

          1. Thanks for the weather report.

            Are we still on for Afternoon Tea in the Spring at the Moonfleet….Don’t tell hubby !!!… :o)

      3. I hate crowds these days, Maggie, never did like ’em. But I’ve been in a quiet village community for more than 15 years and get uncomfortable going into a city’s crowded atmosphere. So you are not alone, well, hopefully you are. My pub is the Xenophobic Arms.

        1. I don’t like crowds, either (and London is an alien, hostile environment these days). It’s one of the reasons I avoid the Cheltenham Festival and watch it on TV. I have been to the Derby a couple of times and Royal Ascot once, but dodging hundreds of people who don’t know one end of a horse from another gets in the way of enjoyment.

          1. There is a way to just flow through crowds without being bumped. Blind drunk or blinded by iphone just requires a well placed elbow.

          1. Evening, Belle, I only miss Richmond Park and the River. Thankfully we’re at the bottom of a cul-de-sac and the road becomes a track beyond us, although there are a few cottages closer to the river. Stair rods here now as well, despite BBC’s ‘light rain’ forecast.

          1. Probably, as long as the original meaning of xenophobia is being thought about, ‘fear of foreigners’.

  157. There is a story that the Assyrian Empire was so well ruled and so well ordered that a young virgin carrying a pot of gold on her head could walk naked across the entire Empire unmolested.
    We are that naked young woman carrying a pot of gold, and we are attempting to cross a transition period in the European Empire. Does anyone really think that we shall emerge from the transition period unmolested?

    (I posted this further down. but anyway…)

    1. That’s all about Northern Ireland.

      The rest of it is pretty much the same as Treasa’s WA.

    3. These sort of texts are now beyond my comprehension. We need an authoritive summary before the weekend.

    4. Rastus, here is my full, honest and free at the point of delivery appraisal: it’s a crock of shit.

      Some days ago I wrote along the lines of Johnson being a hero or a charlatan and fraud depending on his actions. He is the latter and continues to spout similar lies as did his predecessor. Taking back control, getting Brexit done: all lies and all bullshit. I am raging that for the second time in just over a year a Prime Minister of this Country has attempted to sell us out to the EU. I’m currently looking for a very remote, very deep and waterlogged ditch…

      1. I am still hoping this is still part of his game plan – get this voted down and we are out on No Deal!

        1. If that turns out as true then I retract everything about his intentions but not the “deal” he is currently promoting. However, watching the backslapping and happy faces, including Johnson, if he is pulling a fast one on the EU then he is one hell of an actor.

  161. Conservative MP Mark Field is to stand down and will not stand in the next general election

    2. Of course which is why details are sparse. The DUP don’t like it and won’t vote for it, so they’ve been shafted. Looks like it’ll be the NI stays in the EU deal and the hard border moves to the Irish Sea. A deal even Theresa May managed to work out was terrible. Buffoon Boris is a retard.

  163. So we are still in the EU for another three years and NI remains in the SM and CU until Brussels agrees the technology that is already used world-wide for customs clearance is finally OK.

    1. We Leave the EU on the 31st. WE have a 15 month transition period during which a trade deal will be negotiated

  164. Sounds like the Uncle George solution………..

    @Richard Jessop 17 Oct 2019 6:24PM

    ”By agreeing a ‘level playing field’ with the EU goons, Boris has at a stroke destroyed one of the most – arguably the most – important and massive benefits of leaving the EU.

    So – we are going to pay the EU 39 billion and agree not to out-compete them, let them control our country in countless ways… handing over our armed forces and fish… and for what?

    For absolutely NOTHING! We won’t even have a free trade deal in exchange for letting the EU have permanent control of Britain – permanent control which will only be vastly expanded in the ‘trade deal’ and ‘political agreement’.

    Why is that Canada and other countries doing trade deals with the EU surrender NOTHING to the EU in terms of control over their countries, or money – but Britain agrees to the EU controlling Britain?

    Does anybody asks these EU puppets like Boris that?

    No – because he wouldn’t have any answer.”

  165. The Scotsman is reporting that Alister Jack, leader of the Scottish Tory MPs, is urging them to vote for this Boris “deal”.

    AJ: “For Scotland’s farmers, we will create a new system of support to help them prosper outside of the Common Agricultural Policy.
    Untrue. The WA prevents the UK offering support to business unless the EU approves.

    AJ: “We will no longer be bound by EU laws, and the Scottish Parliament will receive a raft of new powers as they return to the UK from Brussels.”
    Untrue. The WA keeps us subordinated to the European Court of Justice.

    AJ: “We will be able to strike our own trade deals around the world, opening up huge opportunities for businesses across Scotland.”
    Untrue. The WA provides for all trade deals to be approved by the EU in order that they fall into line with existing EU arrangements. This is to prevent the UK giving other countries better trade terms than they are getting from the EU, and prevent other countries giving the UK better trade terms than they give the EU.

    https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/alister-jack-praises-brexit-deal-as-scottish-tories-accused-of-u-turns-1-5028143AJ“

    1. Spot on, Horace. It’s a ‘Do this before you have any inkling of what you’re doing!’ demand.

  166. Evening all, I have kept quite while this “deal” has been going on trying to make sense of it all.

    I am not sure we have heard all the unacceptable terms in this provisional agreement, I am sure the longer it goes on two things will become apparent,
    1 The remainder MSM will bombard us with heavenly praise for the deal, thanks be to St Boris,
    2. More and more of the electorate will realise that a WTO exit is best for the U.K. this deal stinks

    My only thought is this, whilst not a member this is our only hope to reclaim our country.
    https://www.thebrexitparty.org/

    1. Question time isn’t being terribly helpful .. mixed opinions .. lippy Labour bint … the audience is going on about white supremacy .. enough said ..

      Interlopers , all of them!

      1. Stage managed throughout. Even to the extent that the stage manager had arranged the seating pattern of the audience so that their choice of clothing colours would make a nice chevron shape in the shots of the audience.

        If you think I’m making this up, look at the playbacks, dark tops v light. There’s a definite visual pattern to make it look ‘neat’.

        All that aside, I didn’t hear much from the Brexit chap (closed down), I heard a lot of illogical tat from the gobby Labour woman, the Bernado’s bloke and the shoulderless Tory who seemed not to believe what he was saying.

        It’s the BBC.

        EDIT: Can any Scottish politician discuss any issue at all without compressing it to ‘we in Scotland’?

        English politicians (spit) of whatever their hue tend to discuss issues in connection with the UK. Why must the Scots politicians be so parochial?

    3. I’d like to point out that the Brexit Party does not have members, it only has subscribers. They don’t have any input other than providing cash.

      1. Morning Conway, I thank you for your clarification about membership.
        The fact still is that The Brexit Party with their subscribers remains our only hope of a Brexit that is free of the EU.

        1. As a long time member (yes, we have members and we also have grass roots input) of UKIP, I am afraid I beg to differ. Whereas we have a fully costed and independently verified manifesto of what to do once we’ve got out (remember, if it hadn’t been for us, we’d never have got the referendum in the first place – how quickly people forget), the Brexit Party is the original one-trick pony. Nigel slagging us off (once he’d flounced off) and setting up a rival party is more likely to split the vote and deliver a hung Parliament in my view.

  168. If we Brexit, it’s nice to think of particular Remainiacs and Snowflakes who will suffer deep hurts and upsets. My particular sources of pleasure will be BBC-ites Brian Cox and Mariella Frostup, Simon Shama … Then there’s Amber Rudd. Then all those Remoaners on Press Preview – Christina Patterson, Azareka Foreigner, Yasmin Alibi-Braun, George Osborne … David Cameron …. John Major … Then there’s my next-door neighbour, virtue-signalling “Professor” (City “University”) of “Journalism”.

    1. Our next door neighbours have still got a bay-window sized eu flag in the bedroom bay window, in situ since 28 March. This is Remainer Country, Heidi Allen’s south Cambs.

    2. “it’s nice to think of particular Remainiacs and Snowflakes who will suffer deep hurts and upsets.”
      May, Cameron, Major, to name but a few. Odd how 3 recent Conservative PMs can be on that list.

  169. On the subject of the Extinction Idiots, if the Met Perlice had carried out their tasks correctly, there would be no need for the passengers/those waiting for a train to do anything

    Yet again the authorities are treating the Sympton, (the train was delayed by protestors) not the Fault, (the Perlice allowed the situation to develop)

    A bit like an Assistant Commissioner speeding away in his locked car, whilst his officers are being attacked by terrorists

    When Is Cressida Richard-Cranium going to be brought before Parliament, to explain her mismanagement of the Met

    Meanwhile, I have prebooked my prison cell for refusing to pay the TV Tax next year

      1. Nor me – I note that on the TV license they can send people round to check your TV but you don’t have to let them in – I doubt if they’ll send anyone to mine but if they do they won’t get past the front door

  170. Have just downloaded my photos from last weekend and though this makes a good ‘Goodnight’ photo

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9db3ec27f5e93208b0b297bb7b8fe160a3428130133291b03a11efc436b3dc66.jpg

    but Oh My Goodness, what a surprise I found amongst them -this small UFO I just hadn’t noticed when I was walking around the field!

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/df2f39b48616e99c07723fa06ff387811e735d13fc59416bf722d738a888acb5.jpg

    I wonder if the Express would pay me lots of dosh for it!

  172. Latest mail to Mr Redwood…………..

    In fact, when one thinks about the giveaways during the upcoming free trade negotiations, such as fishing and ”level playing field considerations” etc etc, it’s perfectly obvious that Brits are never properly going to escape from the EU at all. They will always be controlled in many respects in order to get that mirage of trade.

    Brexit therefore is turning out to be like a clockface where 12 – 6 are spent talking about leaving.. and then 7 – 12 are the free trade negotiations and giveaways which bring the whole thing back to the starting point as if nothing much has happened.

    How perfect for the EU !

    Polly

  173. I reckon today Boris has offered the leaders of the Labour, LibDem, Greens, SNP a pile of spades and if they so wish they can use the spades to dig a deeper electoral hole for themselves. Each of Britain’s constituency electorates should take a particular interest in any MP who is in a leave constituency and votes against Johnson’s deal, but in favour of the 2nd Refrendum amendment.

    1. What if they vote against the “deal” and against the 2nd referendum amendment? I think this deal is a stitch up and I’d be glad to see it rejected. No deal is better than a bad deal, after all.

  174. One thing that alarms me re Brexit , if it is a reality .. We are kettled in with some of the stabby stabby nasties and Allah praising Halal chomping, kiddy fiddlers, Eastern European scammers, murderers, thieves abusers and the rest .. and there is no chance of repatriating the rubbish that has accumulated at the tax payers expense ..

    So if we are going to be on our own , how do we deal with the disaster that has descended on us re all this criminal activity .

      1. How many people know what traditional British values are .. when people seem to be less thick skinned than they used to be .. You know the hymn .. He who would valiant be ?

        1. ‘Gainst all disasters…

          It Just needs firm leadership and someone to read the BBC the riot act and tell them for once which side their bread is buttered….

        2. We stop the multi-culti rubbish, insist on everyone speaking English (except in the celtic fringes) and save a fortune on translation charges as an incentive, stop pandering to un-British ideologies and remove thought crimes.

    2. I think most have not appreciated the political abilities of Boris Johnson. Boris is foremost a pragmatist. He understands that political deals involve some give and take.

      Whether or not the cretins in our precious parliament understand his vision is open to serious question.

      If Boris’s ‘deal’ fails then the result will be the need for a vote of no confidence followed by a general election. Both anti-Semitic Labour and the incredibly stupid Lib Dem’s are presently the laughing stock and unlikely to challenge a Remainer.

      Most believe we just leave and the EU can do it themselves afterwards.

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