667 thoughts on “Saturday 19 October: Stick to the deal in Parliament’s game of pontoon or risk losing all”

  1. Boris Johnson within touching distance of Brexit deal victory following Labour defections. 18 OCTOBER 2019.

    Boris Johnson is within touching distance of getting his Brexit deal approved by the House of Commons after he won the backing of up to a dozen Labour MPs.

    Mr Johnson said the nation would breathe “a great sigh of relief” if a Brexit deal was finally passed, as he called on Parliament to “do its duty”. He also told MPs there was “no better outcome” than his deal.

    Morning everyone. I’ve read all the comments on Nottl and not a few articles and given some thought to Boris’s Brexit Deal and concluded that it is really Brino. I also think that the fix is in and that it will pass in the Commons today and eventually become law. I also think that as time goes by it will, contrary to the views expressed in the MSM, become more Brino not less because the majority in Parliament are Remain! In other words it will be manipulated and changed by increments until being out and being in will be indistinguishable except for the revenge the EU will inflict for our temerity in wishing to leave. So I shall be voting for Nigel and the Brexit Party at the next General Election which should be quite soon!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/18/boris-johnson-within-touching-distance-brexit-deal-victory-following/

    1. Morning Araminta.

      Not much to cheer about today so I’ll be giving the Brexit debate a miss.

      I will, though, be nipping into town for a full English before we’re forced to eat croissants, or whatever they breakfast on in the EU.

      1. Morning Eddy. One small consolation – croissants are somewhat better than Venezuelan food. If the crock of sh!t which is Boris’ ‘deal’ passes the Commons today, the chances of Magic Grandpa occupying No. 10 are greatly reduced…

        1. Au contraire.
          Mr Corbyn will now resist an election for three years because there will be so much work legislating for BRINO.

      2. When I was away in Dover last weekend I had both a full English and croissants for my breakfast – the best of both worlds!

        1. Bonjour Elsie.

          Just got back from town, having had my fill. Can’t even squeeze in an After Eight mint let alone a croissant.

          Off now to my neighbours’ for a cuppa and a natter.

          1. Bangers and mash followed by jam roll-poly. Didn’t you say that Cote has now been taken over by Joe’s Cafe?

            :-))

          2. You didn’t hear that from me. Còte is still Còte; yes’day I had a French martini & a coffee on the house.

          3. Have you joined Greta Thundpants’ little gang, Peddy? Why on earth are you enjoying your drink on the house roof of Cote?

            :-))

    2. ‘Morning, Minty, “So I shall be voting for Nigel and the Brexit Party at the next General Election which should be quite soon!”

      #MeToo

      I had hoped that the deal will be rejected and Juncker’s declaration that any extention would be a waste of time, stood; thus allowing us to leave on Hallowe’en with only WTO rules. Ha, dream on…

    1. Excellent…thanks Eddy. Certainly an opportunity for laughter – and currently we don’t have many of those. I hope it’s as good as Shaun the Sheep – The Movie, which was on iPlayer until a few weeks ago. The scene in the French restaurant was pure comic genius (admittedly for those with a schoolboy sense of humour).

      Meanwhile….’Morning, Peeps, and welcome to D-Day (D for decision, of course). I have a sinking feeling that those self-important berks in the House of Clowns are about to extend the dreaded Brexit ‘debate’ even further. If so, sod them all.

      Heavily involved in a concert today, rehearsals all day, so not expecting much Nottling, despite the vote (or non-vote).

      Laters…

      1. Morning Hugh.

        It was reviewed on the BBC news channel last night and the clip they showed had the reviewers in tucks – and me.

  7. Going to miss the rugby this morning but I hope England play with the heart and spirit of Leavers and with just a small amount of the sly tactical cunning of remainers.

    2. BBC reporting that Mark Francois has come round to voting for the deal. We need to get out and at the next election vote for those candidates who will fight to work in the UK’s interests.

      1. at the next election vote for those candidates who will fight to work in the UK’s interests – always assuming there are any such candidates, of course.

        1. The Brexit party should manage a few seats in Parliament and the ERG MPs will also get their seats back. Manifestos should include the Party’s stance on working hard to make Brexit a success

  11. Dawn Sturgess – a victim & tool of cold war propaganda. Larry Kummer, 19 October 2019

    The inquest for Dawn Sturgess has today been yet again postponed, for the fourth time, and for the first time no new prospective date has been given for it to open. Alarmingly, the coroner’s office are referring press enquiries to Scotland Yard’s Counter Terrorism Command – which ought to have no role in an inquest process supposed to be independent of the police.

    It appears very probable that the independent coroner’s inquiry process is going to be cancelled and, as in the case of David Kelly, replaced by a politically controlled “public inquiry” with a trusty or malleable judge in charge, like Lord Hutton of Kincora. This is because the truth of Dawn Sturgess’ death in itself destroys key elements of the government’s narrative on what happened in Salisbury.

    Simply put, the chemical that killed Dawn Sturgess could not have been the same that allegedly poisoned the Skripals. Charlie Rowley is adamant that he found it in a packaged and fully sealed perfume bottle, in a charity bin. Furthermore, he states that it was a charity bin he combed through regularly and it had not been there earlier, in the three months between the alleged attack on the Skripals and his taking it from the bin

    Yes that sounds about right. They’ve destroyed all the rest of the evidence with the “clean up” operation so there’s no chance of any further evidence emerging except within the stories own massive internal contradictions!

    https://fabiusmaximus.com/2019/10/19/dawn-sturgess-cold-war-propaganda/

  13. The deal is probably the best next step, A battle won as a first step to out total independence.

  14. Morning all

    SIR – I urge all Brexit supporters, Nigel Farage included, and those MPs with a vestigial sense of democratic honour to back the Prime Minister’s deal. The bulk of its opponents are set on reversing Brexit entirely, by any means possible, and are not remotely interested in getting a “better deal”.

    The agendas of the Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, and the Scottish First Minister, Nicola Sturgeon, have nothing to do with Brexit but are all about their political ambitions elsewhere.

    As in the game pontoon, Brexiteers need to recognise it is time to stick; if they keep twisting for a perfect score, they risk going bust and losing all.

    Victor Launert
    Matlock Bath, Derbyshire

    1. SIR – Today MPs have the opportunity to demonstrate their belief in the democratic rights of the British people by voting through the Brexit deal agreed by the EU and the UK negotiating teams. This opportunity exists, but the odds remain in favour of their rejecting this hard-won agreement.

      Through a bitter, divisive and unhappy period for this nation, what many in Parliament have also shown is that they entered politics firmly of the opinion that they know what is best for the ill-educated masses who put them there, and that referendums only count when the great unwashed vote in the correct way.

      Michael R Gordon
      Bewdley, Worcestershire

      SIR – After 40 years of voting in elections in a Labour stronghold where my vote counted for nothing, on June 23 2016 I finally cast a vote that meant something.

      Today, October 19 2019, my vote and 17.4 million others may be ignored. Is this democracy?

      Peter Shields
      Hawarden, Flintshire

      1. SIR – I am the employer of 45 staff in the manufacturing industry, and we all know how important it is for our livelihoods for this Withdrawal Agreement to succeed. Our business is one of tens of thousands in the UK. I appeal for all MPs to protect our future by voting for this deal.

        Anthony James
        Managing Director, Sterling GP
        Stokesley, North Yorkshire

  15. SIR – A few weeks ago, Rory Stewart proclaimed on Newsnight that if Boris Johnson secured a new deal with the EU, he would go down on his knees before him and apologise. I’m sure the Prime Minister would not to wish him to do such a thing. It will be enough for Mr Stewart, and others like him, to be loud and clear in their entreaties to friends in opposition parties to do the decent thing now, abide by their general election manifesto promises, and vote for the deal.

    Tim Coles
    Carlton, Bedfordshire

    1. SIR – Two huge issues are played out today, neither of which I can influence. I will watch England play Australia.

      Christopher Messer
      Tunbridge Wells, Kent

  17. Morning again

    SIR – In a bid to encourage people out of their cars and on to public transport, members of the protest group Extinction Rebellion have begun hijacking Underground trains (report, October 18).

    Could this reasoning explain why so many of them are unemployed?

    Bob Stebbings
    Chorleywood, Hertfordshire

    SIR – I wish to state that the mayor of Woodbridge (who was arrested at an Extinction Rebellion protest in Trafalgar Square) in no way represents my beliefs. Setting such an example while wearing his robes is a disgrace. He should be removed from office.

    Val English
    Woodbridge, Suffolk

  18. At last, Brexit is imminent and we need a strong man with Europhile leanings to run the country.
    Who better than Philip Hammond ? I look forward to seeing him sitting in Parliament again, with Theresa May beside him, grinning and saying nothing.

  19. Good morning from Saxon Queen with longbow and cleaned axe.
    A reasonably bright and sunny day today, i shall be watching the
    proceedings in Parliament this morning from 9.30 am ,
    I do hope I shan’t be throwing Viking cushions at the screen.

  21. ‘Morning All

    A watermelon indeed

    “In a lengthy article for Medium entitled ‘Extinction Rebellion isn’t about the Climate’, Stuart Basden reveals the true goals of the far-left environmentalist action group.

    Basden asserts that whatever climate problems exist can’t be fixed

    and that the movement should instead be focused on tearing down the

    entire system of western capitalism (China, the world’s biggest

    polluter, isn’t mentioned once).

    He claims that “European civilisation” is to blame for spreading

    “cruelty” and “violence” throughout the globe for the last 600 years and

    bringing “torture, genocide, carnage and suffering to the ends of the

    earth.”

    He then cites numerous “delusions” which are to blame for this

    situation, including “white supremacy,” “patriarchy” and “class

    hierarchy” (a strange one given that most Extinction Rebellion

    protesters are upper middle class snobs who do little but inconvenience

    and harm the working class).

    “The delusions of hetero-sexism/heteronormativity propagate the idea

    that heterosexuality is ‘normal’ and that other expressions of sexuality

    are deviant,” writes Basden.

    So it’s not about climate change, it’s about ending the idea that

    heterosexuality is the default biological breeding setting for

    humankind.

    Ok, then.”

    https://summit.news/2019/10/17/extinction-rebellion-co-founder-says-climate-protest-is-about-ending-idea-heterosexuality-is-normal/

  23. DT Letters page today is like Invasion of the Bodysnatchers.
    Why is BRINO suddenly the flavour of the day?

    1. People think it will be the first step to freedom; even some of our own most ardent Brexiteers on Nottle are saying we should take it.

      The problem is that the EU will use the “deal” to wreck us in every way they can. The MPs should ask themselves exactly what has Barnier given to the UK in the negotiations so far and then ask themselves what they think he will take in the next round, because he sure as Hell won’t be giving anything away.

      1. Anyone who thinks that once we sign this Treaty that proper negotiations will begin is deluded. We will already have given the EU everything it wants, it will drag out the negotiations for years and we will continue our supplicant status. The only way to properly negotiate is from outside the EU as equals, not as a slave state begging for crumbs from the table.

          1. I’m convinced that many MPs will roll over and surrender.

            The chance of well rewarded jobs in Brussels will be the aim of many.

        2. JK, please explain to me how conducting negotiations after October the 31st when we will have left the EU will not be our country negotiating from outside the EU as equals, in which case we could simply walk away from the negotiations if the EU plays dirty.

          1. My understanding is that post 31st October we enter the transition period, where we are subject to all EU rules with no say. The PD requires us to seek alignment on EU rules across many areas of our national life, including employment law, defence and taxation. We will have paid £33bn we don’t legally owe, and be on the hook for euro zone bailouts. There will be a border down the Irish sea.

            I can’t find the exact quote right now, but I can recall reading a Charles Moore article on Margaret Thatcher’s dealings with the EU. She said that very often, warm words and seemingly vague statements could crystallise into legally-binding commitments. Much of the nasty stuff in May’s WA has simply been kicked into the political declaration, which I suspect will turn out to be much more of a statement of intent than a vague aspiration when push comes to shove.

            We could trust the good faith of the EU, enter into vassal status and hope we are able to negotiate something tolerable. Or, we could keep fighting and hold out for a proper clean break, and the freedom that goes with it.

          2. If we “keep fighting” this becomes a “Neverendum” which will result in total defeat by the Remainers. Are you suggesting that when our forces were trapped at Dunkirk we should have continued to fight to the very last man instead of evacuating our troops in order to fight another day?

          3. Well to continue your WW2 metaphor, should we have made peace with Hitler after three years, or carried on fighting until a meaningful victory was achieved?

            If we sign this Treaty then we will have surrendered. Anyone who thinks there will be meaningful negotiations after that is naive.

          4. Why would we have wanted to make peace with Hitler in 1942? Unlike Dunkirk, we were not trapped by his forces with no chance of winning.

          5. I don’t know why everyone has given up so easily. Johnson’s deal is 95% of May’s. We extend, have a GE, Leave alliance smashes the Remainers and we get a proper brexit.

          6. I think that many people are tired of the idea of Brexit after the Remainers have deliberately dragged this out for 3 years, for the express purpose of grinding people down. These bar-stewards that we face have been bringing down the countries in Europe for 70 years, so they plan for the long term.

            They are living life high on the hog with our taxpayers money, so it is easy for them to keep going on and on.

            It can only be hoped that when the realities of this W/A become apparent to those who do not see it for the trap that it is, they are angry enough to still resist. These people trying to make us subjects of the EU can still be stopped at the next election, but we will not have a chance after that.

          7. I think it is sad that the people of this country are being ground into submission. We have risen to far greater challenges than this in our long history.

            When our children are called to fight for an EU army and our fishing towns have been decimated we may live to regret that we ‘compromised, to get Brexit done.’

      2. When Britain does not make the sort of advances she would have had with a proper Brexit the odious Remainers will clamour for another referendum blaming everything on Brexit.

        Without the Remainers’ constant treachery and sabotage we would have had a far better Brexit rather than a BRINO.

        1. If we are out on 31st with this abomination any new referendum would be pointless, the EU would demand even more to let us back in.

          If the vote goes with Boris we’re immediately in zugswang.

          2. Indeed.
            Thank you for your correction.
            Did you get a lot of pleasure from that? It must be very satisfying to be such a clever linguist and to never make mistakes yourself.

            I bet you’re the life and soul of any discussion, correcting errors but seldom making any real contriubutions.

          4. No, just completely fed up with your constant humourless nit-picking and I am reasonably sure that I’m not alone.

          6. Hang on there, Peddy, he does have a point. You have corrected his spelling but you haven’t told us whereabouts in Germany the town of ZugZwang lies!

            :-))

    1. Rik, please could you put up that EU tweet again, from yesterday showing where the EU themselves acknowledge that the new deal is essentially May’s deal tweaked for NI?
      Thanks

        2. Chimpanzees share 98% of our DNA.
          It’s the small percentage that makes the difference.
          Thanks to outright treachery disguised as legal niceties, Boris was handed a shiite sandwich.
          Let’s just move on to the next stage.

  25. Whatever happens in today’s vote, a number of MPs need to be deselected as soon as possible, and Letwin should be stripped of his knighthood!

  28. Daily Brexit Betrayal

    Meanwhile, the ‘Undecided’ will have read about support for Johnson’s Deal coming from an unexpected side:

    “Some of Britain’s

    most powerful business leaders have urged Parliament to back Mr

    Johnson’s deal. Among the firms giving their support to the deal in

    response to a letter from the Prime Minister were Barclays Bank, insurer

    Prudential, defence firm BAE Systems, drinks giant Diageo and the law

    firm Linklaters.” (paywalled link)

    Even more astonishing is the support, all of a sudden, from Mark Carney, Governor of the Bank of England:

    “Britain would

    receive an economic boost if MPs pass the government’s Brexit deal as

    companies release billions of pounds of pent-up investment spending,

    Mark Carney has said. [He] said

    the draft deal was “good news” as it included a transition period that

    would let the economy adjust and remove uncertainty that has been

    stalling growth. The Bank believes that business investment is 25 per

    cent lower than it would have been without Brexit uncertainty.” (link, paywalled)

    He carefully overlooks the fact that it was

    of course Remain, fuelled by his own Project Fear scenarios, which

    prevented an early, proper Brexit and thus created the ‘Brexit

    uncertainty’ in the first place.

    https://independencedaily.co.uk/your-daily-brexit-betrayal-saturday-19th-october-2019/
    Another useful Bellwether,if Carney is in favour it must be a shite sandwich

  29. Blair has announced that this “deal” is being rushed through with little scrutiny and on the face of it is. In the light of further reactions from the Remain faction this rushed deal could have a beneficial ending. It all depends on what Johnson’s real endgame is.
    My initial reaction was that this is a really bad “deal” (a crock of shit), however, more information including some real worries from the Remain faction gives some hope that Johnson/Cummings may have played a blinder.
    He has negotiated away the Backstop that would have held us tied to the EU in perpetuity and moved the level playing field restrictions from the WA to the negotiable PD. In addition he has reduced the transition to a minimum of 14 months. Meanwhile the No Deal preparations have been continuing: has that money been wasted? Not if Johnson is on course to outflank the EU by threatening the nuclear option of the UK walking away on WTO terms at the end of 2020 unless we have an FTA without all the conditions that Barnier has already stated will form the basis of the EU’s position i.e. level playing field control of our lives. This option at the end of next year has put the Remain faction in a bit of a spin. It’s rumoured that Remain are now looking to tie Johnson’s hands in the future FTA negotiations, such is their concern.
    If Johnson is May in trousers then he has delayed the destruction of the Tories for a year or two i.e. if he has sold out and the EU’s plundering of the UK is having an impact. However, if he has played the EU and gets an FTA in line with those the EU has granted to other countries then we will genuinely be out.
    If the Remain faction is worried by this “deal” giving Johnson the position to walk away at the end of next year then perhaps the ERG’s position changing is understandable. At the end of the day it all depends on Johnson’s true position; is he going to sell us back to the EU or use his new position to bully the EU into giving us what we want?
    Add in Letwin’s amendment if passed… Remain are really worried if LBC’s political editor is to be believed. Bercow has just selected Letwin’s amendment, quelle surprise.

    1. Why has Boris given the EU new powers over Britain without a vote or veto during the extendable transition period ?

      That sounds really dangerous.

  32. I’m going to get complicated:

    His deal won’t pass, even if the numbers are there

    Boris Johnson has a problem and it’s not the one that most of the Westminster Village spent yesterday pondering. It is, however, one that gives the lie to the aphorism of the PM’s namesake, the 36th president of the United States, that “the first rule of politics is that its practitioners need to be able to count”. It’s not: that’s the second rule. The first rule is that its practitioners need to understand the rules.

    There is no point being able to count if it turns out that you’re counting the wrong thing, or at the wrong time. For it looks as if just as he might have found a majority for his deal – courtesy of an abundance of goodwill among both the Spartan wing of the ERG and the Ind Con Burt-rebels, combined with a decidedly weak Labour whipping operation in the circumstances – he won’t be able to bring that majority to bear.

    That such a majority might well be there in the first place is extraordinary. I tweeted a thread yesterday where I rated the chance of his deal being approved at less than 15%. In retrospect, I might have under-rated that but not by much. The odds were definitely stacked against the government.

    Even now, we have to remember that if Johnson retained the support of the entire Conservative parliamentary party and gained the voluntary backing of all the whipless wonders who resigned or were booted out over the Benn Act, he’d still need 10 opposition MPs to offset the loss of the DUP. May only managed 9 on the third meaningful vote: 5 Labour, 2 ex-Lab Independents, 1 ex-LD Independent and Lady Hermon. Obviously, that requirement increases if Boris can’t bring home a full house of Con / Ind Con MPs but the number of Labour MPs already going public with their support suggests Johnson might well be able to win the vote.

    But here’s the problem: that vote might well never take place. An amendment tabled by Oliver Letwin boots any vote on the deal until after (or into) the votes on the legislation to implement the Agreement. Of itself, there is some sense to this. One short route to a No Deal exit was to approve the deal (which would then have avoided triggering the requirement of the Benn Act to seek an extension) but then not to implement it. Letwin’s amendment closes that risk off. However, by its nature, it does a lot else besides.

    If the amendment passes (and assuming that any attempt to authorise a No Deal Brexit fails, which it will), then the PM will have to seek that extension and despite the noises coming out of Brussels this week, the answer will almost certainly be a weary ‘yes’. For all sorts of reasons, we have to assume that the amendment will have more support than the main motion and that therefore it’ll be all-but impossible for the government to get the deal approved unfettered. All that counting yesterday would be for naught.

    That said, creating an unlikely majority and then not being able to do anything with it has been the story of Brexit since day one.

    In fact, the true risk for the government (and one that’s been surprisingly unnoticed so far, even by those commentators who have understood the importance of the Letwin amendment), is also similar to the rest of Brexit: the majority disappears as soon as you get into the detail.

    Without the DUP, the government’s majority plunges to -63, which is hardly a stable base on which to push through a complex and controversial piece of legislation. There would be absolutely every chance of both Commons and Lords mauling whatever the government put forward, and tying all sorts of undesired conditions into ratification.

    Chief among the amendments we could expect would be to make ratification dependent upon a confirmatory referendum. It is just possible that Corbyn might withhold Labour support from such a move as it would close off his ability to negotiate his own Brexit deal but that prospect is becoming more and more fanciful. If he doesn’t, there’s every chance that the amendment would pass.

    Such a development would be unwelcome to the government, to put it mildly. How then do they forestall it? The obvious answer (albeit a contingent one) is to force and win a general election.

    Corbyn has called for an immediate election dozens of times in the last few months and while he had a justifiable case for opposing it in September, when it really would have played fast and loose with No Deal and made the production of an agreement probably impossible, that argument falls away as soon as an extension is agreed. For Labour to then vote against a dissolution would appear both cowardly and hypocritical, especially if all the other parties were in favour, as is likely. For what it’s worth, I think Corbyn would back the call, as he did in 2017 in similarly unpropitious circumstances.

    However, so big is the threat to Johnson’s Brexit plans and so little control would he have over an extended legislative process to implement the deal that I think he’d also need to issue a threat of the nuclear political option. (Before exploring that, let’s note that if the deal passes without amendment, Johnson might be able to ram an Act through parliament using the 31 Oct deadline as the anvil: the time pressures and his willingness to No Deal if necessary might just be enough; an extension would completely destroy any chance of those tactics working).

    If parliament refused to endorse the deal (even if by kicking the can), and also refused a dissolution, Johnson could threaten to resign in the reasonably secure knowledge that no-one else could form a government. After all, if it couldn’t be done in September when the pressure really was on, it won’t be doable now. The cost to such an action would be to let Corbyn into Number 10 and allow him the trappings of office for an election campaign but the prize would be that campaign.

    Such a threat though returns us to the First Rule. If Johnson carried it through, we’d probably be looking at a Dec 19 election: not a happy prospect for anyone and one that’d certainly give pause for thought for any party reliant on younger voters and/or those without postal votes. Or, for that matter, any party seeking to drag the focus away from Brexit.

    Which is one of several reasons I don’t think MPs would want to go there. By contrast, an election triggered by a dissolution motion next week and allowing for a brief wash-up session (although presumably excluding the scheduled Budget), would point to a polling day of December 5.

    A December election (which of course covers either option), is available at 3/1 and that, to me, is very good value.

    David Herdson

    http://www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2019/10/19/johnsons-phantom-majority-why-were-heading-for-a-christmas-election/

  34. Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn criticised Boris Johnson, saying his new Brexit deal did not protect workers’ rights.

    Corbyn is just speaking bs. If you have a long memory you will remember the Great Repeal bill that takes all relevant EU legislation which on Day 1 takes all rel event legislation into UK law. After that we can change it but any changes will have to go through the commons. If any changes were to be made they would be minor technical ones to better suit specif UK needs

    EU regulations cover things like:

    The working time directive, which limits the number of hours people can work
    Maximum amounts of particular pollutants there can be in the air
    Requirements for workers doing the same jobs to be paid equally.
    They set minimum standards below which government cannot go. After Brexit, UK governments would no longer have to abide by these minimum levels.
    The EU’s position is that the closer the UK chooses to stay to EU regulations after Brexit, the easier it will be to give it full market access.

    The revised political declaration says that the UK and the EU should “uphold the common high standards… in the areas of state aid, competition, social and employment standards, environment, climate change, and relevant tax matters”.

    1. I really don’t understand this “protection of workers’ rights” argument by Labour. It seems to be predicated on a Conservative government immediately overturning all the current legislation . However, EU law is being adopted into UK law, so nothing would change. Even if the Tories subsequently changed the law regarding “workers’ rights”, Labour have the remedy – at a General Election, make a manifesto pledge to change it back to what it is now. In any event, it would be the choice of a UK parliament, not something imposed by the EU. Isn’t that a good thing?

      1. I always wonder how that “protection” works under the EU freedom of movement.

        It certainly allows employers to recruit cheaper labour at the expense of workers everywhere.
        It certainly allows self-employed Poles etc to undercut British workers.
        It certainly allows Companies to move factories out of “expensive” countries to cheaper ones at the expense of the UK whose conributions to the EU allow the EU to subsidise the companies in the moves.

        If that is protection it is a protection racket.

        1. Well although the EU sort of claims to be a single entity is is actually 27 different countries. The directives apply to all 27 countries although some take more notice of them than other. Each country can pretty much have its own pay rates and working hours etc and whilst the EU in theory does not allow state aid within the 27 countries the EU itself engages in state aid

        2. It certainly allows employers to recruit cheaper labour at the expense of workers everywhere.

          That implies including those workers being recruited at a cheaper rate. Doesn’t add up.

      2. To clarify further EU Detectives are not directly enforceable and have to be enacted into English Law(Not sure if it has also to be enacted in to Scottish & NI Law) So for example the Working Time Directive is already in UK Law

      3. Note to self: chimney needs sweeping.
        Where’s a small boy when you need him?
        (To prove I’m all heart, I will provide a hand brush.)

        1. There’s one in Parliament at this present moment, Annie. He’s called Master Speaker. Why don’t you kidnap him? (Good morning, btw.)

  35. latest numbers on the vote on the deal, if we get that far today, 310 FOR 302 AGAINST with 27 undecided or keeping quiet- this is all fluid and could change

    1. Good morning, Peddy. Some Brexiteers (not Trolls) on here want Parliament to vote down Boris’s deal today on the grounds that it is only BRINO and will keep us in the EU’s clutches forever. I have to confess that I really have no idea exactly what the implications of his deal will be (the Devil is in the detail), but to vote it down today would see a never-ending continuation of the 3-plus year-long debate. How would that improve matters? Anyhow, I’m looking forward to a trip to Cote see you on November the 1st.

      :-))

      1. Sorry totally disagree, we need to leave on the 31/ 10/ 19
        we need to make the first move. Brèxit is only the start,
        deals change,details change but if we don’t go then we
        probably never will. There will be those calling for another
        referendum, so many want to stop Brèxit in its entirety
        and it’ll go on for more years.

        Well anyway, good morning 😉

    2. Down-voters do, Peddy, you’ve got one for that.

      At least it recognises that it’s a Troll (fol de rol).

  37. I dont think Hammond as a clue. You cannot negotiate in the commons chamber

    Former Chancellor Philip Hammond says he’s not sure whether to back the PM’s deal. He asks for a “proper role for Parliament” in future negotiations. The PM says he will give that commitment.

      1. Can you imagine try to negotiate when you have to take every single item agreed back to the commons for approval before you can move on? . It is simply not workable sand would take for ever

    2. We’ve seen Parliament exercising an improper role.
      Presumably, a proper role is the dead opposite of what the shiites have been doing for the past three years.

  38. We need to move on and leave on the 31/ 10 / 19

    The referendum 3 years ago wasn’t a neverendum but can
    easily become one if others get their way.

    1. Yes, but the Boris deal in itself isn’t Leave.

      It takes a huge amount on trust as to Boris’ intentions.

      1. WE leave the Single Market & Leave the Customs Union and Freedom of movement ends and we get our fishing grounds back

        1. You certainly don’t get your fishing grounds back. That’s up for discussion before you get a free trade agreement.

          1. All countries sort out fishing grounds.
            Boris has been dealt an appalling hand – thanks to 3 years of deliberate obfuscation by a vast array of naysayers and downright traitors.
            No, the deal is not ideal, but there are times when you take a pragmatic decision and just get on with it.
            This is one small step; provided the will is there, many more steps will follow.
            (And I wonder how many MPs of all stripes have had their ears well and truly bent in the last few days.)

          2. It’s ”pragmatic” to hand control of Britain over to the EU on a plate during the extendable ”transition period” without a veto ?

          3. annealian – I do like the vast majority of your posts, and we are certainly on the same page when it comes to wanting to be free of the EU. But this deal is 95% the same as Theresa Mays deal, which was written by the EU to specifically trap the United Kingdom under their control. We will subject to the new laws that they pass and pay them what they demand.

            There are lies saying that the “transition period” will be short, but if our MP’s can be dishonest enough to vote for the W/A in the first place, they will certainly extend this period for years. The EU has a host of plans just waiting in the wings for much closer integration of all countries under their control.

            I am certain that the EU did not craft this plan to help the UK to leave their control. This is not a step towards freedom but a leap towards permanently being taken over by the EU. I am obviously not happy saying that, but it is important to realise what this deal does to us. I believe that we can still be free, but not with these MP’s trying to stop us. Good luck to us all.

          4. I agree it depends upon the will of our politicians.
            May gave a stonking speech at Chatham House; but it was a hollow effort because her heart wasn’t really in the sentiments she expressed.
            After 3+ years of this country being reduced to a laughing stock, I believe that we may be ruining a corner.
            A belief bolstered by the suspicion that many MPs have had their ears bent by their constituents.
            It is noticeable that the likes of Letwin are not standing again. Why?

          5. The hard-core Remainers who were put into place by Conservative Central Office, sometimes over decades, know that they will not be re-elected so they are jumping before being pushed. That just leaves the next bunch of pro-EU Liberals to be put in their place as they pretend to be Conservatives. That is not going to help, unless they are Real Conservatives who want a no-deal Brexit.

            Then you have one of the all-time arch traitors who worked for the EU to let them create this W/A trap – Theresa May. There are people who call themselves Conservatives who will still vote for the likes of her. The mind just boggles at how some of these voters eyes are closed to what is being done to us.

            It will become obvious just what a betrayal this deal is that Boris is trying to sell as time goes by. But there will be massive amounts of damage that is done to the United Kingdom during the years it takes for the scales to fall from peoples eyes. A forced extension followed by a general election to get rid of these pro-EU traitors in all parties is out best hope now. So our MP’s will obviously not allow that to happen.

            It will be extensions, delays, and the spectre of more and more referendums as their numbers of voters increase from the EU by the year.

          6. Anne, I think that, “,,,ruining a corner.” might be construed as taking a turn for the worse!

  39. Who is funding Steve Bray ? Is he living on benefits? He must though get other funding as well as travelling up to London each day from Neath Port Talbot would not be cheap nor would staying in a hotel in London

    As MPs begin debating on Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal, protesters are gathering in Westminster.

    Anti-Brexit protesters calling for another referendum are preparing for a People’s Vote march later today.

    On Saturday morning, Steven Bray, from Port Talbot, south Wales, who has protested every day that Parliament has been sitting for more than two years, shouted “stop Brexit” as MPs arrived this morning.
    He says protesting against Brexit is his passion, adding: “We scraped the bottom of the barrel with this prime minister.”

    1. Apparently, he rents a flat in Westminster opposite Jacob Rees-Mogg’s home, funded by public donations. It can’t be cheap.

      1. You are probably looking at a £1000 a month minimum in those parts. Only things cheaper wold be council & social housing

  40. NEWS FLASH

    Mt Berk-O is not happy with the Ingerland 40 – 16 Australia World Cup result and has declared Australia the winners.

    Reason Australia looked prettier in their Yellow/Gold shirts

  42. It would be a delicious irony if this afternoon’s vote either passes or
    fails by a SINGLE vote, as when the notorious Fiona Onanista (yes, I
    know) swung the result to stop No Deal in Parliament on April 3rd.

    If Boris’s deal is voted down the same way, some group or other will
    scream that it’s a democratically binding result, unlike that of the
    2016 Referendum, since when the votes of the massive excess of Leavers
    have been almost totally ignored.

      1. The Speaker will have the casting vote. Convention dictates he votes in favour of the government. Seeing how Bercow has behaved up till now…

  43. A practical example of how the human mind works
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e0df095dd3c9e7b7b8cb4d1c770609609d9cf1e547d6211193ec0b2575d887e7.jpg

    Analysis of the above picture can tell us a lot about how different people think.
    – For young men, it’s a picture of a lady with a nice derriere but only the most observant will notice that she is crossing a street.

    – The really observant will notice that she is wearing a thong.

    – For older men, she appears to be a respectable woman – with a nice butt – on her way to work.

    – The perverts among them will imagine her naked.

    – Wiser men will ponder the presence of mind of the photographer to take the shot in the face of such beauty and be grateful that they shared it.

    – For half of the women, this is an ordinary woman who should not have left home dressed that way.

    – The other half will think she is a slut but wonder where she bought that blouse

    – Older women will imagine the misery that the woman’s curves will cause by the time she reaches 50.

    – But only children, the extremely intelligent and the celibate will notice

    that the taxi is being driven by a dog.

    2. Double gulp and a slurp.

      Morning NTN.

      Thanks for an alternative to what’s going on today.

      P.S. How do you get half a pot of tea out of a keyboard.

        2. If it’s a separate keyboard, just get a new USB one (e.g. Currys £5.99). If it’s a built-in laptop keyboard, just plug in the same USB keyboard to see if the laptop still works.

          I once spent over 2 hours cleaning cocoa residue out of a client’s external keyboard before I found out how incredibly cheap USB keyboards are.

    7. I kid you not, but the self-same lady (or a very much look-alike who, instead of flares, was wearing brown knee-length boots which emphasised her derriere) sat down with her back to us in a restaurant in Dover on Saturday evening. As she did this, all male eyes (and not a few female ones) turned to watch her!

  44. Ireland NZ about to start.

    I’m betting that Sexton will be targetted very hard and an attempt will be made to see him carried off.

  45. GDP measure the Economy not Well being . If you have a good GDP per Capita you would hve more money to spend on Wellbeing

    In 2018, Scotland, Iceland and New Zealand established the network of Wellbeing Economy Governments to challenge the acceptance of GDP as the ultimate measure of a country’s success. In this visionary talk, First Minister of Scotland Nicola Sturgeon explains the far-reaching implications of a “well-being economy” — which places factors like equal pay, childcare, mental health and access to green space at its heart — and shows how this new focus could help build resolve to confront global challenges.

    1. So how are Scotland going to fund this ‘well-being economy’ if they leave the Union?

      1. Who Knows. Another problem and that applies to most of the UK is e simply have to many people that just don’t want to work. Maybe she can use them for Welfare programs such as helping out in care homes , providing a meals on wells service, cleaning street litter etc

  47. The same nonsense fro Sturgeon as from Corbyn. Nothing is changing with regard to workers rights

    Nicola Sturgeon
    ‏

    Johnson has broken virtually every past promise he has made on Brexit. How anyone could believe promises he makes now on workers’ rights or anything else is beyond me. ‘Caveat emptor’ should be the words ringing in ears of any Labour MP thinking of backing this deal.

  49. So i told him about this farmer who in winter could not bring his cows
    in for milking as there had been a hard frost last night and the cows
    hooves were stuck in the mud in the field, The farmer i said was very
    agitated as it was at least three hours overdue for milking time , In a
    panic he called his local vet who told him that he would send someone
    round.
    So about half an hour passes and the farmer goes back to the
    field and see the vet and a small old woman going to each stuck cow and
    the old woman placing her hand on the cow for a minute and the cow
    shaking itself free to go get milked.
    The farmer was amazed and went
    to the vet and old woman saying that this was amazing and he had never
    in all his life seen this happen before.
    The farmer by then had got a
    good look at the old woman and said to her you look familiar to which
    she replied, oh you might have seen me on telly im Thora Hird.

    1. ‘Afternoon, Rik, if I told that, I would get a pitying look from Best Beloved and comments about ‘Dad’ jokes. {:¬)

  50. Belated Morning (just about) Campers.
    Telly now switched off for everyone’s own good. Dr Woollybrain was spouting and we decided to preserve what’s left of our blood pressure.
    Otherwise, a jolly morning sorting out returns for online orders. Fingers crossed I’ve done it correctly.
    (Note to Colchester NOTTLers; if you see a mushroom shaped cloud over the Maldon Road area, you’ll know that the Computer Said No.)

    1. I tried to watch some of the news, and the recorded press previews from last night, but could not stomach it either. At this important time, Sky News had two Remainers reviewing the papers with no attempt at balance. This morning they were almost strutting as they see the chance of this Withdrawal Agreement “Lite” getting through, especially with that snake Letwins attempts to hamstring the United Kingdom either way.

      At any other time in in our nations history these politicians would be hung from the city gates as a warning to others who were “aiding the enemy.” So the struggle for freedom continues, in spite of the best efforts of the vast majority of our MP’s.

    2. Do you mean that during your time as Office Junior yesterday morning you were given lots of online orders to process today and need to send the returns to the Tax Man? Or that you have been shopping on the Internet for lots of winter woolly jumpers for yourself and MB and they all came in the wrong size and need to be returned?

      1. I have been ordering stuff on the internet.
        We girls have to do our best.
        “Numquam mori,” as Hyacincth Bucket probably didn’t say.

  52. Nice to watch Boris and Barclay in charge of the zoo.We would have been out years ago if it had not been for that bloody May woman.

  54. Dominic Grieve moaning about us ” galloping out on the 31/ 10 / 19
    Instead of giving more ” considerate time for debate ” .
    We all know what you want Mr Grieve and we’d shoot your fox dead
    by leaving on that date. Much rather have the time and flexibility
    Of a deal that’ll change with time and circumstances then
    your wish for a delay to shoot Brèxit dead instead.

      1. He knows that after the 31/ 10/ 19 that he and the
        others cannot continue with their gerrymandering to
        stop Brèxit. Cicero mentioned the enemy within the
        gates, Grieve is an example of that.
        People are utterly sick of the entire thing and want to
        move on instead of an endless circle that will never end
        If beyond the 31/ 10/ 19. Brèxit will be dead after that date
        If not agreed and move forward.

        1. They have spent hours this morning just waffling almost none of it is actual debating the Withdrawal Agreement, No discussion about the details of the WA at all, No one is saing where it is deficient or where it needs improving

          1. Because so many of them are just playing a different game. They don’t want constructive discussion.

          2. That’s because they just want to gerrymander and play their
            own little games. They are utterly disrespecting their roles
            In respecting the views of their constituents and the vote to
            leave. Politics is no longer about a duty to serve and about
            self interest instead .

          3. Bill, It’s not an Agreement, it is an international treaty.

            Juncker made this quite clear on BBC TV.

        2. Good Ole Marcus is working overtime at the moment;

          “A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murderer is less to fear.”

          ― Marcus Tullius Cicero

          1. It’s also he who said ” politicians are not born, they are excreted ‘
            and listening to that lot I am in total agreement with the old Roman.

          3. Will there be a 2,000 years time,we are told we are wrecking the
            world, so there will probably not be a ode to Corbyn in 2,000 years,
            sadly .

  55. What is Corbyn Smoking ?

    He is now trying to claim Brexit will Threaten NHS jobs . How who knows? I though the NHS was short of staff

    1. Yes he said that and interestingly Labour admitted that they’d
      use a delay beyond 31/ 10/ 19 as a way to remain in the
      EU ( with the help of the SNP, I assume ).
      Only by our first leap on the 31/ 10/ 19 can we stop that
      ability. Brèxit will not happen beyond that date, they will stop it.

  56. The big protest outside the Commons appears to be a few dozen people waving large EU flags

    1. The march is starting out from Park Lane at 12 noon. So they won’t be in Parliament Square yet.

    1. Ken Clarke (Remainer) backs the deal. But so does Peter Bone (Leaver). So what this proves – to my mind – is that there are large numbers for and against passing this deal in both the Leaver and Remainer camps. Now I’m off to have my lunch, do a bit of gardening, and then much later returning to find out what the result of today’s “debate” was, exactly.

      1. Martin Howe QC has come down in favour – just.
        He harbours doubts, but, unlike the amazingly unanimous 11 Supreme Chickens, does actually allow for pros and cons.

  59. We were given a referendum by Cameron.. but were the finer points of withdrawing from the EU examined first before all this current hokum became out of control.. why were we convinced it would have been that easy?

    1. Who thought that it would be easy ? I didn’t. But I had confidence in our government’s ability to deal with it. That was my mistake.

    1. All joking aside, I do wonder if there is something – possibly neurological – wrong with her.
      Her weight gain is massive and she seems to have trouble physically controlling her mouth.

        1. To be fair, I was referring to a physical handicap.
          I can be as rude as the next person, but there does appear to be an extra problem.

          1. Weren’t there rumours about her having problems around the time she made that awful gaff about additional police officers and their cost?

      2. She has – I imagine – a stressful job with access to good cheap (atour expense) food.

        Frankly I suffer the same.

        As for not controlling her mouth, that’s because she feels she has to say something to stay ‘relevant’. Most politicians have this problem.

      1. Probably reminiscing about her motorcycle trips with
        Jeremy Corbyn across Eastern Germany in the 70s .

    2. I hadn’t noticed until you mentioned it. I was using it yesterday with no problems. I have not noticed this “red text” version jumping around yet, and have it opened down to the first comments of the day.

      With any good fortune they may have fixed the problem that stopped you having too many comments open.

      (Edit – Ha! I spoke too soon. My screen with the red text is now jumping around like a Mexican bean on amphetamines. Ahh well.)

  62. Tarzan actor Ron Ely’s wife stabbed to death by their son. 17 OCTOBER 2019.

    The wife of former “Tarzan” actor Ron Ely was stabbed to death by the couple’s son at their California home on Tuesday evening, police said.

    Deputies identified the suspect as the Elys’ son, 30-year-old Cameron Ely, and shot him dead after determining he posed a threat.

    Law of the Jungle what? I remember Ron from my childhood. He wasn’t a bad Tarzan. He used to fight with his feet!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/17/valerie-lundeenely-married-tarzan-actor-ron-ely-stabbed-death/

      1. Why did Jane refuse to answer her mobile phone for so long? When she was thrown into the water did the caller ring off or did the water damage the phone?

        2. No need to apologise, it happens to us all. (Btw, can anyone tell me the result of the Second World War? Or when the Titanic is due to arrive in the USA? Sorry, Minty, only joking!)

          :-))

          2. Drop it, Peddy. However aggrieved you may feel you are beginning to sound like Ogga and Polly.

    3. What a bleedin’ coincidence! As you posted that, they were playing the opening sequence to the Lion King on R2.

      Did you hold it back for that reason?

      1. They were playing the opening sequence to the Lion King on Radio 2? Will this be followed by a repeat of Archie Andrews?

      2. Look on the bright side you could have been listening to a rerun of Life with the Lions!

    1. Peston’s tweet assumes that everyone reading it has full knowledge of the machinations going on in Parliament. Perhaps tweets are not the best mechanism for conveying complicated issues like Letwin’s amendment to the masses.
      This from Al-Beeb and makes more sense – well to me anyway.

      The latest gambit by the alliance of MPs around Sir Oliver Letwin looks like a real problem for the government whips, as they prepare for Saturday’s critical vote on the new-look Brexit deal.

      The amendment would withhold approval of the deal, until the legislation to enact it was safely passed – a move that would automatically trigger the “Benn Act” and force the prime minister to request a further postponement of Brexit until 31 January.

      1. How can Bercow allow Letwin’s treacherous amendment to be debated as it could delay Brexit for a year or more iduring which all sorts of new EU regs will make Brexit almost impossible.

  65. Having watched the farce in the commons today it is easy to see why Westminster never get much done. They have developed time wasting to a level seen no where else in the world

    1. Till Birnham Wood shall come to Dunsinane,
      For Scotland there will be no independence.
      Shakespeare said it. Tough luck Ian.

    1. I think that those who want to stop Brèxit in its entirety
      will see this as their chance to do so.

  69. Keir Stanmer or whatever his name is doesn’t trust the
    UK alone to protect workers rights without the greater influence
    Of the EU, he said that in a roundabout way.

    Labour will vote against this to try and force another referendum
    with the help of the SNP who will use this for their wish for independence.
    Complete self interest of politicians who will not ever obey the
    democratic vote to leave. 31/ 10/ 19 was the one big leap and a
    start unfortunately it looks unlikely to happen.
    Bookies have cut their odds.. so that’s it, more delays, another referendum
    and we’ll be endlessly trapped in a vicious circle.

    1. Scotland is a enigma. Sturgeon keeps going on about Independence but clearly wants to be rolled by the EU as they dont trust themselves to legislate

      1. It’s quite amazing really but will the EU want Scotland,
        as a small independent country with no currency
        ( they surely cannot keep the pound and the North Sea
        oil belongs to the Crown ) what will the SNP have to
        offer the EU.

    1. Turned the sound off and was looking at his angry manic face without
      words. Lots of SNP dealings might come out at Salmonds trial,
      they’ll want to brush under the carpet.

  71. England are going to have to play at their absolute best to beat NZ next week. NZ were outstanding in every phase.

    1. Any match with NZ depends on the ref being strong enough to ignore their bullying and penalise their cheating.

      Edited to cancel small minded folk. {:¬((

      We all make effing typos. Give me a break.

        1. ‘Tagchen, John.

          In Bezug auf ‘Faden verloren’ gibt es irgendwelche Neuigkeiten über das Verschwinden der Weindiebin?

          2. Boots hat vorgestern bemerkt daß es einige Zeit ist, seitdem sie sich gemeldet hat. Und das stimmt, das ist auch mir nicht entgangen.

      3. So (© Cathy Newman) you’re saying that If he doesn’t give them enough rope, they can’t string him up.

        1. Didn’t see it – was taking the MR to the airport. Saw the first half of England live and watched the recorded second half.

          An energetic match! Which, until quite late in the day could have gone either way.

          Good to see backs running.

          1. I still think that that is England’s greatest vulnerability; counter-attacks in broken play. They are too keen on the crash smash and if the ball is lost the opposition generally make a lot of ground.

      6. Is your car careering down the road, Uncle Bill? Why else would you want a brake?

        :-))

  72. Good morning all. It seems that the general view is ‘this is good enough, it’s the best that this Remain-heavy Parliament will support, let’s just get this over with so we can talk about something else.’ I’m sorry, but ‘just about good enough’ isn’t good enough for my country!

    I was at a Brexit Party rally last night. Farage and Richard Tice took us through all the bear-traps, including commitments on fishing, defence and even taxation! It is as much ‘vassal-state stuff’ as May’s deal was. It is not Brexit.

    Rather than trying to appease this Remainer parliament, I would rather a short extension, a GE with a Tory/TBP pact to deliver a thumping Leave majority and a proper, clean-break Brexit. But that is probably too much to ask for from this rotten lot.

    If they do sign this EU Treaty which gives away so much of our national independence (and money) then before it is implemented – I DEMAND A PEOPLE’S VOTE!

    1. It’s a start JK and a short extension will only make matters worse. The Torys are not going to make a pact with the BP although Nigel would be all for it. Let’s get out now, have a General Election and vote for those partys prepared to work towards a clean and prosperous sovereign UK. Get rid of the rebel Remainers. We will get nowhere with them in Parliament. I am a hardline Brexiteer but realise now is the time to retreat and get ready to fight when stronger. Theresa May and the Remainer MPs plus Bercow have caused this temporary upset. edited to include ” A Peoples Vote is a trap. It will be biased to ensure a Remain result”

      1. I think if we sign up to this Treaty now then we are done for. Both the UK and EU will move on to other priorities. The time to fight is now, before the trap is sprung and all our negotiating leverage is given away.

  74. Mrs May gave a good speech. Anyone got a plaster ? She has a bloody cheek. Must have cut herself shaving.

  75. It would appear that UKIP’s pish-poor NEC has finally managed to kill their own party. At the same time as these events are happening on Parliament. So the NEC may well have been put in place to wreck UKIP and it just took them a few years to do it.

    The party chairmen sent out emails regretting that the process for the upcoming elections for the parties NEC had been hijacked by party members. The long and short of it the Chairmen has suspended their own party leader Richard Braine and 3 others from the party and is now bringing in the police to investigate them for “data protection” crimes.

    The party chairman suspending the elected leader of UKIP… That should be the sound of the final nail going into the coffin. So it should be The Brexit Party standing alone now as an alternative to Remainer MP’s in any upcoming elections. Here is part of the email sent out by “Kirsten Herriot” (no me neither) who is the party chairman:

    “It is with great difficulty that I write to inform you that I have been forced to take serious action against Richard Braine, Tony Sharp, Jeff Armstrong and Mark Dent who have now all been suspended from the Party. Upon reviewing evidence, I have now made a report to the Police – Action Fraud Department for their part in an attempted theft of UKIP data which took place on Wednesday 16th October.

    Whatever your view of me as Chairman… nobody is above the law, not even Richard Braine, who even after being suspended for his actions, attempted to gain access to our Head Office again yesterday morning, accompanied by Mark Dent who tried to physically force his way in. My huge thanks goes to David Challice at HQ who was able to remove him. A police complaint regarding this incident has also taken place.

    Some members of the Party and even the board have been anonymously contacted with threats and blackmail. These will also be treated seriously and police reports will continue to be filed.

    Suspending the Leader of the Party I love so much was a hugely difficult decision, and not one I made lightly. I would not have followed this course of action if I did not have sufficient evidence and legal advice to do so. I do not yet know what the media implications of this will be, but assure you it will be handled professionally.”

    The NEC were causing disastrous problems even back when Nigel Farage was trying to get things done.

  76. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50108531
    The peoples’ vote march.
    “In an email to supporters this morning, Shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer said the letter “asks them to honour our shared democratic values, it asks them not to turn away from us now and deny us the chance for a final say.”
    What a laugh, don’t these people recognise what warped thinking this is?

    1. No. They’re fanatics. Cognitive dissonance writ large.

      I want to give the people a chance to stop Brexit (their version of democracy because it benefits them) wile ignoring that Brexit was already a democratic decision but because they didn’t like it, it doesn’t count as democracy.

      They’re twisted.

  77. I understand that Treason made a “good speech”.

    As she set out in June 2016 to ignore the result of the referendum and deliberately gave away her parliamentary majority – then engaged in three years of subservience to – in effect – Merkel, I do not care whether she spoke well or not – or not at all.

    She is the person to whom future generations can look as the arch betrayer of England in particular and the UK in general.

  78. The DUP are going with the Ledwin amendment
    and Labour are calling for another people’s vote,
    go that is that then.

    1. Aethefled – I know that some people are hoping that Boris’s EU-written Withdrawal Agreement gets through to “move us on” but it is a very bad step. This deal binds our country far more tightly to the EU than we are now, and they will use it to cause vast amounts of damage to the UK and do their best to bankrupt us. Bills of £295 Billion in EU debt-sharing are on the horizon if this deal goes through. That is just the tip of the spear.

      Although it seems counter-productive, those who know how this system works, and want a “clean Brexit,” have said that the best outcome is that the deal is defeated and there is an extension, NOT for a referendum but for a general election. It is the only short-term chance of freeing our country from the EU without years of servitude.

      I want this whole thing to be done, but not if it opens up years of transition where our country is pulled apart. The DUP are far closer to being “real Conservatives” than many who are voting for this deal.

        1. Well if it doesn’t we can have the Benn Act and new referendum
          going on for years and cancelling Brèxit altogether,
          if Ledwin gets his way their will be no chance of a no deal Brèxit.

          1. They can only cancel Brexit if we keep re-electing the same people who are trying to stop us leaving.

            If this deal gets through, we are handed bound and gagged to the EU for them to dismantle us at will. Imagine a party standing at the next election who adopts the reverse position that the Liberal Democrats have recently taken:

            “If you elect us, then the EU gets our withdrawal notification the next working day. Not “agreement” – “Notification.” After the last referendum it was shown that full withdrawal was a very simple process under existing International Law and should take 6 weeks. We will then negotiate a trade deal as a free nation.”

            I really wish more people understood just how bad this deal is for this country. It is a leap towards EU imprisonment not a step towards freedom. He is an older site that lists just the top 40 things that are wrong with it. (This deal they are voting on today has just had the Irish bit fiddled with. 95% of it is exactly the same deal that Theresa had:)

            (Point 4 alone should make even the most optimistic concerned about just when we will be “free.”)

            “4. The jurisdiction of the European Court of Justice will last until eight years after the end of the transition period.”

            https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/12/the-top-40-horrors-lurking-in-the-small-print-of-theresa-mays-brexit-deal-2/

          2. Yes, that’s perhaps the worst part.

            Obviously the ECJ will side with the EU, so what’s the point of an external arbitrator?

      2. We will have to respectfully disagree on that I think;)

        But it’s irrelevant now I think with the way it’s looking,
        the whole debate has been sabotaged by those who
        are gerrymandering an excuse for another referendum.
        The deal may not have been perfect but it was a step
        In the right direction and would’ve shoot the
        fox of those who want another ” people’s vote ” people
        are sick of Brèxit and want it done with not more delays,
        It’s the enemy within who are the true enemy and they
        won’t cease until Brèxit is cancelled.

        1. I’d like to see a French coq up tomorrow, although I’m not sure I want the Taffs to win either.

    1. Ask her about a people vote in her constituency. She told them to get lost when they asked her to stand down and face a by election

  82. If the Benn Act comes into force there will be no
    way of obtaining a ‘ No Deal Brèxit ‘ which Boris Johnson
    always had up his sleeve.

  84. I am listening to the parliament debates,
    but have wandered away due to Jo Swinson and her
    childish behaviour and I turned the sound off when the
    SNP started rattling on..
    a few things for them.. hypocrites who want independence
    from the UK but don’t want the UK to have independence from
    the EU. If they want to leave then the North Sea oil belongs
    to the Crown, they might want to join the Euro too because
    They can’t keep the pound. Cornyn wasn’t worth commenting on,
    just the usual environmental stuff and workers rights stuff.
    Not sure how I’ll cope with this all say.
    Btw Iain Duncan Smith is a plump smug g1t .

    Come on Boris Johnson, Brèxit is a long road and at least after 31/ 10/ 19
    we would have made a start, deals can change and we can pick things
    off that we don’t like at our leasure. If we have another delay then
    we’ll never leave. There will be those calling for another referendum
    and we need to shoot their fox. We need to make the first step and do it
    firmly .

    1. “Come on Boris Johnson… We need to make the first step and do it firmly.” Yes, Ethul, but how? Boris is totally dependent on Parliament to allow us to leave on the 31st and “make a start”.

      1. Sorry I misread what you wrote earlier, my fault .
        I am not sure how, he is dependant upon the integrity
        Of those who will want to use a delay as a way to
        stop Brèxit entirely. He needs to make them see that
        3 years is long enough and it’s not about their
        self interest but about obeying democracy and the
        Will of the people.
        I’ve not the foggiest, and don’t trust the lot of them.
        Labour have said they’d use a delay to seek yet another
        referendum.. God knows 🙂

    2. Nicola and the SNP are total hypocrites they keep going om about the environment but are keen to keep the Scottish oil industry whilst voting against Heathrow expansion and fracking i England

  85. ” At 1323hrs, officers arrested a 29-year-old man at the Palace of Westminster for trespassing at a protected site.

    He has been taken to a south London police station.

    Enquiries ongoing.”

    What’s the problem ? Any idiot can get into Parliament.

      1. Considering those who go into it tend to come out much richer, with second homes, two or three ‘consulting’ jobs paying ten times the average wage for a few hours work a year it seems that many people would want to get into it.

  86. It looks as if Labour and the SNP traitors have got their way.
    More years of ” Carry on Brèxit ” that can go on for years and
    years until it’s forgotten. Such sabotage is utterly vile.

    1. Take heart. 🙂 It can only go on until the next general election, not years and years. At that point we can choose if we want these same people to keep ignoring the referendum result.

      They will be forced to have an election sometime, even if they are dragged kicking and screaming into it. That will be the last time that we see many of these traitors faces.

      1. Many of them are not standing in the next election, or know they’ll get kicked out, so are happy to cause as much damage as possible.

    2. On the 3pm News it stated that Boris was still buoyant & we would leave on Oct. 31st.

      1. He really must do that Mr Viking, we must leave by the
        31/ 10/19 or we never will.
        Boris Johnson had a deal that wasn’t perfect but a step
        forward and he thought those in Parliament might
        act with integrity but how foolish to think that.
        He must be very brave now and keep the promise
        to the electorate and leave on the 31/ 10/ 19.

    1. Why does this clip end in mid-sentence? Is it because at that point she opened her eyes, turned her head towards him and nodded her approval? I have no idea, but I am very suspicious.

    1. FIREWORKS IN COMMONS

      Boris has said no letter requesting a delay and we are still leaving on the 31st

  89. Boris Johnson defeated in crunch Commons vote on Letwin amendment
    Tom Goodenough – 19 October 2019

    3:01 PM

    The government has been defeated in the Commons after MPs backed the Letwin amendment by 322 to 306. The vote means that Brexit could be delayed until the withdrawal bill and all relevant legislation has come into force. The Prime Minister responded to the defeat by saying the ‘opportunity to have a meaningful vote has been passed up’. Boris Johnson also insisted that he would not negotiate a delay to Brexit with the European Union. The PM told the Commons:

    ‘I will not negotiate a delay with the EU and neither does the law require me to do so,’

    Oliver Letwin reacted to the vote by insisting that he still wanted Britain to leave the EU on 31 October. He added that the amendment would mean the UK would not exit without a deal should something go ‘wrong’ between now and the end of the month.

    The DUP’s Nigel Dodds, who voted against the government, said the decision will give ‘further time’ to consider Boris Johnson’s Brexit bill.

    It now means that there will be no ‘meaningful vote’ on the Brexit deal today.

    ************************************************************************************

    BTL:

    @PhilKean1 • 9 minutes ago
    .
    The leader of Opposition, The Speaker, and his deputy, Jeremy Corbyn, have had a result.

    1. Righto, let’s start by hanging Letwin.

      Or at least sacking him, revoking his pension – in entirety – and siezing all his assets and forcing him to repay his expenses costs – personally. Following that, banning him any access to ministers now or in the future on pain of jail for life.

      Bankrupt, homeless, penniless and with massive debt and no recourse to the cushy job he planned for in the future we are free of this parasite.

      Then carry on to Benn, Soubry and mandelson. Him especially, as the EU wants ot protect him and we MUST bring him to trial on charges of corruption, fraud and malfeasance in public office.

      Then stuff prison. Too good for his ilk. Just flog him to death.

    2. Oh my goodness me… what could be behind this unexpected Brexit hiccup……….. ?

      Surely Nigel can’t be right ?

      ”Billions spent in the EU to undermine the nation state. This is where the real international political collusion is”.

      1. It’s possible, given his previous track record, that Letwin could completely f*** this country on his own merit.

  90. It’s weird how Boris keeps on saying ”let’s get Brexit done” as if his ”deal” achieves that, when all it actually does is agree to negotiate for years about Brexit.

    At the same time as pretty well saying to the EU…..

    ”Hey guys, here’s Britain on a plate, do what you want with it while we’re talking, and if you do anything naughty, I agree you can’t be prosecuted.”

    Doesn’t sound right to me !

  91. Breakdown of Vote

    FOR

    Lab 230
    SNP 35
    Lib-Dem 19
    Ind 18
    DUP 10
    TIGFc 5
    Plaid 4
    Green 1

    AGAINST

    Con 283
    Ind 17
    Lab 6

  93. A further nail in the coffin containing the respect of the British Public for our Parliament.
    Any rationale for holding a Parliamentary Election at any time in the future, has now gone.
    There is no Party fit to hold office.

  95. I’ve just watched the headlines on TV (I haven’t watched any of the debate) and switched it off. I can’t stomach it! These people are vile! All of them!

  98. A comment from elsewhere seems very germane

    “There have to be consequences that they would wish to avoid.
    If
    they delay change again and there are no consequences then nothing will
    change. It isn’t a matter up for discussion. It is a fact. It is the
    only thing they fear and consequently respect.”

    This is the seed
    of the eventual terrorist. The normal man or woman who ends up
    committing terrible acts purely because those in power wouldn’t respect
    their vote. This is what is happening today. This is the day the House
    of Commons spawned a new generation of home grown trouble. There is
    nothing we can do to stop it. Their hubris is starting a war.

  100. I understand everything now. The Labour Party are trying to save the country from a fate worse than death.
    Labour women are talking…err…shouting, and the Chamber is emptying.

  101. Hmmm

    Listening again to exactly what Boris said: “I will not negotiate a
    delay with the EU and neither does the law compel me to do so.”
    He didnt sound upset by the vote…. rather upbeat in fact.
    Is there yet a rabbit to be pulled from the hat??

    4. Confusing, Rik. The Benn Act compelled him to write and send a letter to the EU asking for an extension. Not to negotiate an extension.

      1. I thought EU law trumped UK law until we have escaped

        So if Juncker says “no extension” can he not have a better legal hand than Benn, Letwin, Bercow and the Remainers.

        1. Unfortunately it isn’t Juncker’s part of the EU Governance, the EU Commission that has the last word, it’s the EU Council.

    1. Hi Rik.

      I was in Aldi today and checked their jus-rol pastry. It’s made from margarine a something they call palm fat. I still want to see a version of all butter pastry on the shelves before i can concede your point

      The pastry saga continues.

  103. Evil forces are at work. Even remainers must see this. ??? or are they that evil or thick.t

    1. “She is throwing a hissy-fit because someone took her phone and threw it away. What did she expect?”

      This reaction from “real people” to whining idiots who are clueless and full of their own self-importance is inevitable.

      1. Cripes alive their obnoxious harridans, aren’t they?

        All that screaming and no explaining.

        However jamming someone’s arm up their back will break it.

  105. From the Excess:

    “Labour’s Diane Abbott was flanked by a police escort during shouts of “traitor” by the public as she left the House of Commons.

    MPs
    entering into a furious crowd were protected by police this afternoon
    after voting for an amendment to force the PM to beg for a Brexit
    extension.

    Jacob Rees-Mogg and Andrea Leadsom also had a police escort”

    1. “Diane Abbott was flanked by a police escort” Did the escorts have to shout to each other due to the distance?

      3. She probably put a shoulder down and charged into the crowd. All the officers could do was tuck in behind the behind.

  106. Labour woman talking about the future of our children. She should be more worried about the future of the Labour Party.

    1. I ve noticed how many hard left trade union people are now
      Labour MPs. All the more reasonable lefties ( I am being kind )
      are being removed in favour for Corbyn s beloved Marxist
      utopian dream .

  107. Oh, no. That Scottish man Ian Blackford is declaiming again. Time for us to take a three hour break…

  108. Oliver Letwin
    Rory Stewart
    David Cameron
    Judas Rees Mogg
    Boris Johnson

    What does Eton do to these people. They are all peculiar or sub-human.

    2. Do these people grow up as outsiders in their own little world of privilege and see the masses not as people or equals, but as a herd to be farmed and so stupid that they can do and say what they like and nobody will notice.

    3. They were probably peculiar/sub-human before the entered the hallowed portals of Eton. Eton was just catalyst.

  109. More Scaremongering from Labour

    The US on Health and Workers rights is out of line with almost every country in the world. In general our employment legislation exceeds that required by the EU and there are no plans to change that

    I guess Labour work on the idea that if they keep putting out this false information people will believe it

    Shadow Brexit secretary Sir Keir Starmer says that, once the UK moves out of alignment with the EU, trade will be more difficult. The UK would move towards a US-style “deregulated” model, with statutory rights to shorter holidays for workers, he adds.

  110. If I was in charge of the Tory party, I’d announce that I’d be going into the future GE promising to bring back capital punishment for traitors, and will be prosecuting as traitors all those who have been separately negotiating with foreign agents, behind the back of the government, to undermine the government, and the independence and sovereignty of the UK.

    2. Be careful what you wish for.

      A remain Government might well regard leavers trying to get us clear of the EU as traitors.

  111. How much work did Cameron put in to Brexit .. Did he think everything through.. you can bet he didn’t .

    We have here now , back of ciggy packet jottings converted into politics .. and tons of hot air and combustion , fibs , procrastinations and insults .

    Then Farage scuttled off .. yes , he ducked and dived .. and dumped his wife , and fed us all hope initially .. but he was as toxic as the rest .. and continues to be so!

        1. Yep.
          AND you can bet your house that if a Leaver march took place, the milice would make their lives as miserable as they possibly could, kettling and not preventing antifa ER, and remainers etc from causing mayhem.

    4. We were hoping to get a significant weight off our mind today – unfortunately there was a big butt that presented itself.

  113. That’s me for this dreadful day. At least my bone-broken sister-in-law was allowed to fly back to Blighty for the dinner tonight at which the MR will join her brother to fête his 60th birthday.

    I have cold stew……

    A demain

    1. Without being a Jeremiah, may I suggest that you ask the MR quietly to tell her to watch out for unexplained pains in her calves etc, a DVT can be very dangerous.

      1. It can. The newish headmaster of my old school dropped dead the other day from a pulmonary embolism. He had injured a leg. A clot formed and slipped up to his lungs.

        1. I am very conscious of it because HG has had a problem with them and once required emergency treatment.
          Every time we travel she has to take special precautions for all flights, all long distance car journeys, and has to have injections before long-haul flights.

    2. Are we to assume the MR doesn’t let you use the cooker if she’s away?
      Play with matches, run with scissors etc.

  114. My notification box has decided to start working today after eons
    of not working, lots of things to respond too.
    It’ll stop me wandering around with the sword aimed at parliament

  115. Theresa May gave a good speech ( but blasted woman and the audacity of her).

    It would be an utter betrayal of the electorate to use this vote to
    stop 31/ 10/ 19. The on going remainer political plots are treacherous and
    utterly disgraceful.

  117. It seems Labours ploy t the moment is to put out endless fake news. They keep claiming workers rights will be torn up and the NHS will be sold off. . There is nothing at all in the Withdrawal Agreement that says that. If anyone can find anything at all that even cones remotely near that let me know the page number and clause number.

    How politicians can get away with these lies I dont know( Well I do as within the commons they are protected from prosecution
    The only mention I can find is on that says the exact opposite. It is in the political document where it states we wil try to maintain close alignment with EU legislation

  118. What earth do the DUP want?

    If we are out of the EU it means tariffs will have to be applied to goods going over the Land Border

    a) Clearly applying them at the border is out
    b) The EU have ruled out using technology at present
    c) The ruled out Boris complex system
    d) They have ruled out apply then at the port

    So what do the DUP want . Has Boris asked them to come up with a system? I dont think there are any other options left

    Anyone got any ideas ?

      1. I did come up with a convoluted way but it is pretty much option d. This approach would mean all goods from NI that re to go over the border are shipped to mainland UK first , Tariffs are then applied and they are then shipped to Ireland. It seems to work but would be slow and expensive and whether the DUP would even be happy with that who knows. Whatever way somewhere tariffs have to be applied

  119. Letwin makes the case for defecting MP’s to have to stand down and face a by election even more compelling

  120. Boris needs to seriously look at coming to an arrangement with the Brexit Party over which seats each party fights. Corbyn got many MP’s who did not vote for the Letwin amendment to vote for it by threatening to withdraw the whip so many Leave constituencies will have an MP that voted for Remain. With a Brexit Party Candidate and no Conservative candidate there is a good chance the Brexit party could take these seats

    The vote today indicate it will be quite a risk for the Conservatives to go it alone in the general election particularly as the other parties may well make an agreement over contesting seats

    The Brexit Party does not want any formal arrangement such as a coalition or Supply and confidence. It seems to be just stubbornness on Boris’s part

  121. Whats is this daft Rebecca Long-Bailey woman on apparently there is no maternity pay no environmentally legislation etc. It is a complete lie

  122. So the Politicians have clearly been exposed. Their game is to try to scupper Brexit at any Costs as Letwins latest ploy shows

    Why do they need time to crawl through the withdrawal document when they claim it is Mays deal with a few minor tweaks? They have had years to review it

    WE had them waste most of today just saying they did not like it none of them reviewed it at all

  123. The mid market pound/dollar rate has, as the BBC would say, collapsed again, and is now $1.30 to the pound.
    It has moved downwards very quickly from when it was at an all time high of $1.20 to the pound.
    If things get any worse it cound even fall as low as $1.50.
    If you know what I mean.
    Seriously, what’s going on ? The bigger the mess we seem to be in, the stronger the GBP gets on the world markets,,

        1. But how can we leave on the 31/ 10 / 19 after this
          vote. I thought the Benn Act would mean a
          NO Deal Brèxit couldn’t happen.
          This is all very confusing .

          1. When the Letwin Act was passed, Boris said that he would not write to request an extension because he believed that by law he was no longer required to do so. Will this result in yet another law case with numerous appeals?

  125. BORIS IS NOT GOING TO Write to the EU Requesting a delay We are still leaving on the 31st FIREWORKS now I expect

    1. In messages exchanged over WhatsApp, the photographer claimed he couldn’t work with her because “she has a c***”.

      Ummm, A what? four letters, begins with “c”, if it is a woman it ends with “t”, if it is a man it ends with “k”.

      1. I think it’s the Sun doing its bit to engender gender confusion FFS (appropriately)….

    1. Wonderful! A couple of weeks ago I visited the Spitfire museum at Manston, a couple of hours well spent. It turned out that their Spitfire used to be the ‘gate guardian’ at Bentley Priory, less than half a mile from where I used to live! I remember seeing it and a Hurricane there.

      This is worth a look, Jay Leno is a well-informed petrol-head……

      https://youtu.be/GYcKdK7hmEo

      1. Bivvying out at Tan Hill on during my Pennine Way stroll in ’85, I was woken in the small hours by a Shackleton, lit up like a Christmas Tree, flying overhead.

    2. Quentin Crisp used to recommend not doing any housework because, “After the first five years it doesn’t get any worse”.

    1. I think, when I finally get ‘to my last days’ I will pop round and see him

      He will of course have ‘protection’ from the Perlice and Mr Rashid

    2. I do not think that Letwin and his type “fail to recognise that his true target is us” they know full well who are going to suffer from their actions and they do not care. They will happily sit in a high castle looking down at the people starving beyond the walls and throw a crust at them to see them fight over it. It makes them laugh.

      There are a lot of people like that in this world, and their twisted desire to have power over others sadly leads them into politics quite often. Many of these people are not trying to do good, they just take pleasure in grinding others into the dirt.

  130. Can someone remind us what it was about the timetable for May’s negotiations that caused so much trouble at the start? I have read a couple of articles recently that have referred to Barnier’s ‘dictating of the terms’, a move that immediately put the UK team on the back foot.

    1. Not so much the timetable, more the total absence of negotiating skills. Barnier and his advisers were able to run rings round May and her ‘team’, it was embarrassing to watch. My cat is a better negotiator.

      1. I asked the question because of the constant use of the wretched term ‘deal’. Even before the referendum I thought the sequence would be:
        i. leave in the legal sense i.e. extricate the UK from the EU’s structures, putting in place alternative bi-lateral contracts for EU-wide arrangements such as air traffic control, and dealing with the specific matters of, say, migrants and Ireland.
        ii. negotiate a trade deal.

        Barnier somehow successfully merged the two, hence the mess we’re in now.

        1. Indeed, William. Barnier and his team manipulated the running order of events so as to disadvantage us as the ‘negotiations’ progressed. I don’t recall all the details but it was a premeditated tactic which our ‘team’ failed to recognise or question. As you rightly say, it hampered and hindered our negotiating position. Nearly as much as that wretched twat Hillary Benn has more recently.

          1. IIRC from an interview I heard given by David Davis, he was all prepared to follow the rules i.e. the running order as per the treaty but May intervened and ordered Davis to follow Barnier’s schedule. He, Davis, was hamstrung from the beginning and of course was shadowed by Robbins’s team who were doing the real bidding of May. Davis and his team were merely window dressing for the public’s consumption.

  131. Just noticed this (been away) so apologies if already mentioned.

    “Dame Louise Ellman, who is Jewish, has been a party member for 55 years but
    said she “can no longer advocate voting Labour when it risks Corbyn
    becoming PM”.
    The resignation of an elite and a very long-standing member of the Labour Party as a consequence
    of strong anti-semitic views deemed acceptable by our country’s primary opposition party, is not a matter
    for ” minority interests “, but a disgrace to our political system and those who accept it. Lower than this
    we cannot sink.

    1. Wow, there’s a name to conjure with.

      I haven’t seen tonyopmoc since the old DT times. It would appear that he hasn’t changed!

    1. Thanks for posting . I had no idea I was following in the footsteps of Hitler when I was taken to see Napoleon’s tomb in 1967!

    1. Let’s hope we get the General Election that we so badly need. Maybe Tusk will only grant it if there is one.

      1. about two hundred MPs would lose their gravy, so it will be difficult if not impossible to have an election before 2022. (two thirds majority needed)

      2. ‘Evening, JK, Yes, we certainly need a General Election to get rid of The Contemptible Parliament.

        A new Parliament with a Conservative/Brexit Party Coalition must first reduce the size of The Commons to three to four hundred – no more – and reform the Lords to comprise only the hereditaries and the Law Lords. The Supreme Court is disbanded.

        On the next day, they remove the assemblies and the Wee Pretendy Parliament and bring Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland back under the responsibility of the relevant Secretary of State.

        After those are sorted and the European Communites Act 1972 has been repealed and the treason Act renewed, retrospectively, we can bundle all the traitorous MPs off to the Tower to await trial and summary execution.

    2. Dear Donald,
      FOAD

      I hope your gonads rot and if you think we are going to accept your terms, sit yourself on a red hot poker.
      Yours in friendship

      Boris.
      PS
      Strong letter to follow.

    3. Apparently he has sent 3 letters.

      Tim Shipman
      @ShippersUnbound

      NEW: Boris’s three letters to circumvent the Benn act
      1) a photocopy of the letter in the bill, unsigned
      2) a covering note from Sir Tim Barrow which basically says “we’re sending you this because we have to”
      3) a signed letter from Boris saying we don’t want an extension

    4. I dont think a letter is needed, Boris hs complied with the Legislation. He came up with a deal. The loophole he I think is the commons neither accepted it or rejected it

      2. I m not convinced he needs to He has complied with the Been act. Boris bought back a deal and the commons needed to accept it or reject it but they did neither. so the 31 date in my view still applies

    1. He looks like shit. The overcoat has seen better days. The Tie is all wrong if he is attempting any type of proper knot. His teeth are poor and he needs to change his ‘for want of a better word’ Barber.

      1. He seems as careless of his appearance as with confidential papers and indeed British Democracy.

        1. That is something i find strange. Chucking papers into bins in a park. Doesn’t he have a shredder in his office?

          1. I didn’t realise he was ever unmarried/divorced. What do you know that I don’t?

            No smartarse answers please!

    4. This smug git has wrecked everything he ever touched. It is known as the Reverse Midas Touch. The fool was most recently responsible for the shift from the government of the day determining the Order Paper to allowing Bercow and a bunch of duff MPs of every persuasion to interfere and hijack the Commons.

  137. Bleeve it or not, I’ve been hearing fireworks for the last 1/2 hour & it’s only 19/0.

    1. You are lucky they managed to announce their arrival here a couple of hours ago and have been intermittent since 🙁

    3. Sussex Bonfire Societies. Its a big deal in Sussex.

      This year, there will be events from each of the remaining societies starting on 7th September to 16th November. Here is a list of the dates of each:

      7/9/2019 UCKFIELD

      14/9/2019 CROWBOROUGH

      21/9/2019 MAYFIELD

      28/9/2019 BURGESS HILL

      5/10/2019 EASTBOURNE

      12/10/2019 NINFIELD

      19/10/2019 HASTINGS, HAILSHAM AND SEAFORD

      25/10/2019 ISFIELD AND LITTLE HORSTED

      26/10/2019 EWHURST & STAPLE CROSS, LITTLEHAMPTON, FIRLE, HEATHFIELD

      2/11/2019 NEWICK, BATTLE, EDENBRIDGE

      3/11/2019 ROBIN HOOD

      5/11/2019 LEWES, LINDFIELD

      9/11/2019 EAST HOATHLY & HALLAND, CHAILEY, SOUTH HEIGHTON AND RYE

      16/11/2019 ROBERTSBRIDGE, BARCOMBE AND NEVILLE

      If you do get the opportunity to get to one of the dates, please remember that there are hot tar barrels being corralled up and down the street, fireworks and a torchlit procession and as such may not be suitable for young children. Furthermore, as a result of their notoriety, particularly since the arrival of social media, these events are getting bigger every year and as they are held in small towns, the crowds can bring about traffic issues so be aware of this before you go along.

      1. Are you serious? Having fireworks on Nov5 is just about ok but 5 weeks of it? Really? Something is seriously wrong in Sussex. What’s wrong with these Neanderthals?

          3. Had your original post contained detailed background information, instead of simply listing 14 ‘bonfire events’ over several weeks around November 5th, my response would have been different.

      2. A friend of mine is heavily into this stuff. One year a rocket went off in her hand and blew her fingernails off completely as well as causing ear damage. She’s still going back for more. (In most other respects she seems quite sane, honestly!)

  138. The public will be furious, they wanted progress not more delays.
    This sabotage of democracy is a stain that will not be washed off .

    1. Who among the PTB give a toss about the public?

      The “little people” have neither voice nor vote nor way out.

      1. The voting public are sick to death of Brèxit and want it
        done. It won’t be done now in the slightest, it’s cancelled .

          1. When using the Samsung tablet, it seems to change
            words and letters. Normally i correct them but forgot
            to do so. Rather annoying actually, I am hoping the
            new laptop doesn’t do that. Not that i have used it yet.

  139. Our friend Rik is worried that we might be on the verge of a civil war. He may be right and will it be triggered when a prominent leave or a remain politician is slain?

    There are several who must be at risk: Oliver Letwin, John Bercow, Nigel Farage, Hilary Benn, Jo Swinson, Boris Johnson ……. to select a few from different parties.

    I would imagine that the Remainers in particular would like to be able to boast about a martyr or two. I can just imagine that some of the nastier ones are looking out for potential martyrs prepared volunteer to die for their cause.

    1. All democratic means have been exhausted. The people have been disenfranchised. Violence is all that remains, I’m afraid.

  140. Yo o, Leave ho!
    Yo o, Leave ho!
    Once more, once again, still once more
    Yo o, Leave ho!
    Yo o, Leave ho!
    Once more, once again, still once more
    Now we fell the stout EU tree,
    Now we pull hard: one, two, three.
    Ay-da, da, ay-da!
    Ay-da, da, ay-da!
    Now we pull hard: one, two, three.
    Now we pull hard: one, two, three.
    Yo o, Leave ho!
    Yo o, Leave ho!
    Once more, once again, still once more
    As we walk Britain’s shore,
    To The Sun we sing our song.
    Ay-da, da, ay-da!
    Ay-da, da, ay-da!
    To The Sun we sing our song.
    Hey, hey, let’s leave this very day
    to The Sun we sing our song
    Yo o, Leave ho!
    Yo o, Leave ho!
    Once more, once again, still once more
    Bye, you, vulgar Euro-troughers,
    Mighty benefits deep and wide.
    Ay-da, da, ay-da!
    Ay-da, da, ay-da!
    Vulgar, Vulgar, Euro-troughers.
    Yo o, Leave ho!
    Yo o, Leave ho!
    Once more, once again, still once more
    Yo o, Leave ho!
    Yo o, Leave ho!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfsWoNpHg2s

  141. Utterly exhausted, cannot believe a whole day from 9.30 am
    was wasted watching those vile sabotaging cretins.

      1. It was exhausting and pointless in the end.
        You did the right thing with making other plans.

      1. I think that’s what she meant.

        The question is, was she referring to the players, or to the morons watching?

    1. I dont think a letter is needed. Boris complied with the Benn Act. He came up with a deal but the commons decide to neither accept it nor rejected .
      It needs a lawyer to look at it but I think Boris has complied so the ball is back with the commons. They need to either accept it or reject it by the 31st

      1. Boris is entitled to his personal and political opinions. It is against the law to coerce people into putting their name to requests and opinions in which they have no belief and which they do not support. Think of it as requiring someone to sign a false confession.

        I believe Spiderwoman herself made this judgement in a recent case. Now let’s hear it for ‘girly swots’!

        1. Boris was required to comply with the Been Act hand he has done that. THe commons though have failed to make a decision and that is what the Benn Act rehired

          2. They have a second season. They’ve Benn rehired. I do hope they sell ice-cream in the interval.

  143. Aha ! One of my friends on an American site showed me an American
    article on Nigel Farage ( He’s not really as well known there as people
    here think ). I was honest with my assessment I think. Kind and factual .

    3. Creatures who live under bridges in Norway.
      According to my old ConHome friend Sally.
      Good night Mr Viking, sleep well.

  146. Boris Johnson has sent a letter to
    the EU to request a Brexit delay – but without his signature, according
    to a Downing Street source.

    The request was accompanied by a
    second letter, signed by Mr Johnson, which says he believes that a delay
    would be a mistake, the source said.

    2. I believe Boris has complied with the Benn Legislation so no letter is need

      The first paragraph below is the relevant piece. What happened today is the commons neither accepted the deal or rejected the bill in fact no meaningful vote took place. It would be interesting to get a Legal view but I think I am correct

      According to Institute for Government the bill says:

      If MPs haven’t approved a deal in a meaningful vote, or approved leaving the EU without a deal by 19 October, then the prime minister must send a letter (specifically worded in the Act) to the president of the European Council which seeks an extension to Article 50 until 31 January 2020. If the EU agrees to the date, then the prime minister should also agree.

      If the EU proposes an alternative date, then the prime minister should agree to it, unless MPs do not vote for a motion – within two days – which approves the date suggested by the EU.
      The Act does not stop the prime minister from agreeing an extension to Article 50 himself.
      If an extension is agreed, then the Act requires the secretary of state for exiting the EU to publish a report on progress made on negotiations by 30 November 2019. MPs would then have five days to vote on an amendable motion to approve the report. If MPs don’t pass the motion approving the report – or the motion is amended – the secretary of state is required to publish a further report by 10 January 2020.
      The Act requires the secretary of state to publish further reports every 28 calendar days from 7 February 2020 until the UK reaches a deal with the EU – or the House of Commons decides it doesn’t need to.
      The Act amends the EU Withdrawal Act 2018 to say that ministers “must” amend the date of exit by statutory instrument, rather than “may” amend the date of exit.

  147. Anyone seen Garlands recently? Probably not the bst time of day to be asking. Might repeat tomorrow.

          1. You are right. I will remove. The Lady has been under attack for months which is one of the reasons she is no longer here.

          7. I understand damask rose has removed herself for similar reasons, tho’ I see her commenting BTL in the DT Letters.

          8. This forum becomes more personal over the years even if one has never met. When people do meet..and in my experience it has been positive… sometimes not so much. I have met seven people for lunch or a drink and have enjoyed it very much. I’m sure that some of them thought WTF ! But still remained civilised. I hope. :o(

          9. I can’t read what the little pudenda wrote, because I blocked him months ago, but you can prolly see that once again drunk out of his head.

    3. Yo KB

      I mentioned her absence on her, in the week.

      The Boss, Mr G Graham has sent her an email

  148. Has Boris actually discussed with the DUP as to what they see as a solution ? AS far as I can tell all tyhe real options have been exhausted so the DUP seems to be asking for the impossible

    Whatever way you cut the cake tariffs are going to have to be applied to goods going across the NI land border so there has to be a tax point somewhere

    A medium term potential solution is when it comes to the trade talks. WE may be able to negotiate tariff free trade with the EU. THe problem is that May agreed to a serial process ie we have to agree the WA before they will move on to trade talks

      1. I trust we aren’t going to give them any more. Indeed, we should claw back what they have had already.

        1. We seem to have lots and lots of tax payer money to give away for all sorts of idiotic causes where buying influence is concerned. We don’t seem to be able to spend any on the things that tax payers would like the money to be spent. Clearly tax payers are all idiots and they don’t know what they are paying for.

    2. “cake tariffs”? Is this new? Are the EU going to charge us for French fancies, German biscuits, Sachertorte, Pantettone and the like?

  151. Forgive me taking up too much space on the page, but I just received this from the Brexit Party which may be of interest:

    FORGET POLITICS, IS BORIS’S NEW EU TREATY BREXIT?
    No, it’s not
    Brexit factsheet no.7 – The EU’s new UK Colonisation Treaty
    A layman’s summary of the EU’s new ‘UK colonisation treaty’ agreed by the PM yesterday

    1. Parliament will not be sovereign – UK still to be governed by existing and new laws of the ECJ – a foreign court – and
    with no say over these laws. [WA articles 4, 87, 89 and 127, PD para 131]

    2. Demands payment of a sum to be decided by the EU – Minimum £39 billion but this is likely to increase and the
    EU decides the final sum. This must be paid BEFORE any trade deal is agreed. [WA articles 138-144, and 152-155]

    3. No trade deal with EU – Not included as this is just a divorce treaty. Any EU trade deal must ensure “a level playing field
    for open and fair competition” and “deep regulatory and customs cooperation”. This will make it difficult for the UK to reduce
    non-tariff barriers in trade deals with USA, Australia, China, etc. [PD paras 17 & 21]

    4. Prevents independent tax policy – Political Declaration still obliges UK to adopt a future relationship which will impose
    EU State Aid rules and “relevant tax matters” on the UK. EU specifically intends to curb UK’s ability to have “harmful tax
    practices”. Withdrawal Treaty also applies EU law to UK during transition period – allowing EU to sue UK, including infringement
    proceedings for as yet unidentified breaches of State Aid rules and billions in VAT on commodity derivative transactions dating back to 1970s. [PD para 77, WA articles 86, 93, 127].
    5. Restricts independent foreign policy – UK to be bound by international agreements concluded by the EU despite
    having no influence in their negotiation during the transition period and must “refrain, during the transition period, from any
    action… which is likely to be prejudicial” to the interests of the EU. [Articles 129(3) and (6)].
    6. Prevents independent military action – UK permanently stopped from taking “any action likely to conflict with or
    impede” EU’s foreign policies. Critical parts of section on foreign policy and security are not reciprocal, eg future relationship will
    not “prejudice the decision-making autonomy of the EU” but no such language for UK – only permitted to “maintain the right
    to determine how [to respond] to any invitation to participate in operations or missions”. Also, parties “agree to consider”
    security collaboration in European Defence Agency, European Defence Fund, and PESCO “to the extent possible under [EU law]”
    which is prescriptive (not permissive) obligation. Despite paying for European Defence Agency during transition, British troops in
    EU battlegroups will not be led by British staff officers. [WA articles 129(6-7) and 156-157 and PD paras 99, 102(c)]
    7. Controls UK fishing – Common Fisheries Policy continues in UK waters during transition (which can be extended) but UK
    will have no say in implementation or enforcement. After transition, Political Declaration requires “cooperation on… regulation
    of fisheries, in a non-discriminatory manner” – code for continuing current arrangements for EU access to UK waters. Any trade
    deal to “ensure service providers and investors are treated in a non-discriminatory manner, including with regard to
    establishment” – prevents UK protecting quotas from EU purchase. [PD paras 29 and 72]
    8. Replaces one EU Commission with another – New body established with “powers equivalent to those of the
    European Commission”. UK must accept exclusive jurisdiction of Arbitration Panel and judgments of ECJ. Grants EU officials
    criminal immunity and exemption from UK tax. Imposes gagging order on UK which must keep all EU information confidential
    but EU can use UK information as it sees fit. [WA articles 74, 101, 104-5, 106-116, 159, 168, 174]
    9. Leaves UK with €500bn liabilities from EU Investment Bank but no profits – No rights to past and future
    profits made from UK investment in EIB, no rights to UK share of assets of EIB, yet UK remaining liable for risk of up to €500bn of
    guarantees. UK must let EU bid for UK public projects at least during transition. [WA articles 34, 75-78, 127, 143, 147, 150].
    10. EU colonisation – makes UK bystander in laws that govern it – UK permitted to send civil servant to Brussels to observe
    EU passing laws designed to disadvantage UK economy during transition which might last many years. EU could regulate
    London’s huge foreign exchange markets, impose financial transaction tax that would be collected at UK expense by HMRC but
    sent to foreign governments. [WA article 34]
    Prepared by Brexit Facts4EU.Org with advice from a Brussels-based barrister
    For more information: https://facts4eu.org/news/2019_oct_eu_treaty_for_uk_colonisation

    1. What’s not to like? The idiots clamouring for subservience within the EU deserve to be taken to the cleaners. And they will be!

  154. Yo All

    May I suggest we have Days of Remoanerism

    We Drive on the Right
    Stop at Traffic Lights , when they are Green, proceed on Red
    Fill your trolley at your local supermarket and ‘Leave’ without paying
    Fill your tank with fuel, drive off
    etc

    When caught, say you are just using the tacticts of Berk-O, the Supreme Court, Ollie Passwind etc

    They refuse to accept the Referendum result, we refuse to accept other things

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