950 thoughts on “Thursday 9 January: We could all benefit from clean energy – if we are prepared to pay for it”

    2. It’s a different world. Three years ago I had two operations to remove cataracts. The array of technology at the optician’s and the eye hospital were bewildering, but highly effective.

      Three months after the operations, when all was settled, I received my first pair of specs. I was actually overcome with emotion at the new-found clarity in my (spec-assisted, admittedly) vision. I could see the pattern on the surface of bricks on buildings a good way down the road: a high degree of visual lucidity that I couldn’t remember from my youth. It was like being reborn.

      1. Brilliant.

        No:1 MiL tells us that she had no idea there were individual blades of grass until as a child she put on her first pair of spectacles

      2. Up until the age of 45-ish, I could read a bus number before my OH could see the bus.
        Now I have astigmatism. I can’t read a bus number or number plate without glasses at any distance. I hate it.
        I don’t have cataracts bad enough to have them replaced, so have no idea if they’d fix my eyesight problem.

        1. My astigmatism and short sight were improving as I got older – then I had a stroke that affected my vision (amongst other things), and they both immediately became much worse.
          Since the stroke didn’t affect my eyes, these problems must be brain-related rather than physical in the eye… wonder how that works?

          1. Hi OL, a number of us have been wondering how your brain works for quite a while now …. 😉

        2. My diagnosis roughly follows yours. I’ve worn specs (initially just for reading) since age 44, for presbyopia and astigmatism. My, very slight, cataracts were diagnosed initially by an optometrist who referred me to an eye hospital here in Sweden. I paid £30 for each operation and was operated upon within a month of the diagnosis. The op didn’t cure my presbyopia or astigmatism and I still need glasses, but the improvement in my vision is simply wonderful.

          1. I’m also long-sighted, which is not uncommon in us oldies, so I need two sets of glasses, one for reading, one for just seeing.
            If it doesn’t cure astigmatism, I won’t bother paying for any ops.

          2. That’s fine as long as your cataracts don’t develop to the point when you vision is affected to the extent that everything becomes a blur (or worse). I would have no hesitation in recommending the operation. I wear varifocals and I can now see, pin-point sharp, at all distances.

          3. The first occasion I visited an optician the chap suggested that I would benefit from a prescription monocle.

            I had that one lazy eye which was wearing on my good eye. I now wear bi-focals and these compensate marvellously for the defects in both eyes. Years of close draughtsmanship work (at a drawing board) never helped.

            Nowadays I draw everything on a Mac Pro using a North American CAD System: Vectorworks. With a Mac Thunderbolt monitor I no longer suffer the eyesight deterioration. I do however go for biennial eye tests to make sure that my eyesight remains in good condition.

          4. I’ve never done any draughting using CAD or anything similar. I do, though, still have a full sized A0+ drawing board with draughting machine attached (which I purchased for the princely sum of £5 from the design office at Raleigh Cycles when it closed down). I still use it quite often when designing signs or doing any little job that requires a scaled drawing.

          6. I would love to have had the opportunity of learning CAD systems, which was still in its infancy during the short period when I was a draughtsman, but only those draughtsmen with larger firms got the opportunity to develop the skills.

  4. Just heard the travel news,
    More train delays.
    I hear there is a couple of deroyalings this morning already

      1. Ah but once they get delayed by 24 hours they will be back on track. Well at least for the next day

    2. Long, agonised discussions in Norwegian TV news. Who gives a flying one that two spoiled brats have spat out the dummy and gone off in a huff?

    2. Good morning Peddy,
      and belated thanks for the excellent advice about German anchors.
      One more child then she will divorce him and grab the loot (let’s hope he is a beneficiary of a Doberman Trust).
      Hang on, I haven’t checked the link yet.

    5. “The Sussexes’ new charity is expected to be global, linked to Africa and the US, rather than domestic – and will have a commitment to female empowerment.“’nuff sed?

  6. Iran plane crash: Tehran won’t give Boeing or US black boxes. BBC 9 January 2020.

    The crash came at a time of high tensions between Iran and the US and just hours after Iran carried out missile strikes on two air bases housing US forces in Iraq. There is no evidence the two events are linked.

    It looks (No message from the crew, Plane came down in flames) as though this aircraft was shot down by mistake. We will probably find out in about ten years if we are lucky.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51042326

  7. Plastic packaging ban ‘could harm environment’

    Consumer pressure to end plastic packaging in shops could actually be harming the environment, a report says.
    Firms are swapping to other packaging materials which are potentially even worse for the environment, the cross-party Parliamentary group warns.
    Glass bottles, for instance, are much heavier than plastic so are far more polluting to transport.
    Paper bags tend to have higher carbon emissions than plastic bags – and are more difficult to re-use.
    The change in packaging materials has been prompted by concern from shoppers about the impact of plastic waste in the oceans.
    But the report’s authors say the consequences of using new materials has not been properly assessed.

    1. A greenie campaign from the eco-loons is heading for the buffers? Tell me it ain’t so! Pity they didn’t concentrate on the disposal of plastic packaging instead of trying to ban it.

  8. John Lewis warns it may not pay staff bonus

    John Lewis continues to struggle

    Retail group John Lewis Partnership has warned its staff bonus may be in doubt as it reported a fall in festive sales at its department store chain.
    It said it expected annual partnership profits to be “substantially down on last year”.
    The board will meet in February to decide if it is “prudent” to pay the staff bonus, the partnership said.
    In addition, John Lewis & Partners managing director Paula Nickolds will step down.

    2. THe Supermarkets have seen pretty much zero growth. Some show a faction of a percent improvement others a fraction of a percent down but allowing for inflation their sales are all well down and they all had to cut their margins to even achive that

      John Lewis & Partners, owner of the eponymous department store chain and supermarket Waitrose, has warned on annual profits.
      The retail partnership said full-year profits will be “substantially down” after it revealed like for like sales at John Lewis fell by 2% over the seven weeks to 4 January.
      At Waitrose, like for like sales rose by 0.2%.

      The firm also announced that John Lewis & Partners managing director Paula Nickolds will leave in February after being appointed to the role in 2017.

      1. Two parts to John Lewis. The department Stores and the Supermarket side. The supermarket side is not in direct competition with Aldi & Lidl as it targets the high end of the market but there will be some impact & M&S & Sainsburys will also be targeting the Waitrose market

        1. Sainsbury has gone down so much that it would have a hard job to come anywhere near Waitrose.

    4. I wonder, if the top bods will lose their bonuses, as well as the ‘shop floor partners’

      1. John Lewis seemed to manage to avoid the decline affecting the other department stores for a long time but it has now got caught up in that decline. It has most of its store in very expensive High Street locations which makes it difficult to cut costs and most of the goods its department stores sell can be bought far cheaper online

        Its Waitrose food stores are at the high end of the market but the market is looking for lower prices and better value. It also has most of its Waitrose stores in expensive high street locations oftewn with poor parking. The Orcado tie up they had is finished and that will have an impact on them

  9. Scottish Diplomacy

    One thing about blokes from Scotland is that their hearts and humour are always in the right place!

    Jimmy MacDonald, a City Councillor from Glasgow, was asked on a local live radio talk show, just what he thought about the allegations of torture of suspected terrorists. His reply prompted his ejection from the studio, but to thunderous applause from the audience.

    His statement:
    ‘If hooking up one rag-head terrorist’s testicles to a car battery gets the truth out of the lying little camel shagger, to save just one Scottish soldier’s life, then I have only three things to say: Red is positive, Black is negative and make sure his nuts are wet’
    Consider the following:
    1. If you refine heroin for a living, but you have a moral objection to liquor.
    You may be a Muslim

    2. If you own a £3,000 machine gun and £5,000 rocket launcher, but you can’t afford shoes.
    You may be a Muslim

    3. If you have more wives than teeth.
    You may be a Muslim

    4. If you wipe your butt with your bare hand, but consider bacon unclean.
    You may be a Muslim

    5. If you think vests come in two styles: Bullet-proof and suicide.
    You may be a Muslim

    6. If you can’t think of anyone you haven’t declared Jihad against.
    You may be a Muslim

    7. If you consider television dangerous, but routinely carry explosives in your clothing.
    You may be a Muslim

    8. If you were amazed to discover that cell phones have uses other than setting off roadside bombs.
    You may be a Muslim

    9. If you have nothing against women and think every man should own at least four.
    You may be a Muslim

    10. If you find this offensive or racist and don’t forward it.
    You may be a Muslim

  10. Keir Starmer: enemy of liberty. Spiked. 9 January 2020.

    The video implies that Starmer’s history is one of defending individual and workers’ rights. But this is misleading. It ignores the fact that, as a jobbing barrister, Starmer would have been selected for each case based on his relevant expertise. The cases he worked on say nothing of his politics or character, as he would not have chosen them himself.

    Actually I like this anti-democratic rodent less than Corbyn. The latter was at least consistent and faithful to his beliefs however mad they were. Starmer would tell you Black was White if it suited his own advancement!

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/01/09/keir-starmer-enemy-of-liberty/

    2. Starmer seems to be the chosen one by the Islington/Momentum party . He is a Remainer and a supporter of Corbyns policies but without Corbyns baggade and is seen as being able to better present Corbyns extreme policies. Will he attract voters outside of London? Well he will do beter than Corbyn but not ny much. I dont think he will appeal much to voters outside of London

      To hedge their bets they are also pushing Jess Philips. She is seen as being a non Londoner and working class. No real experience and rather a loud mouth with a nasty side to her. Very much to the hard left but not momentum. I dont think she has the support that London thinks she has

    3. Corbyn was “at least consistent and faithful to his beliefs”? And yet he was a Leaver in the past but changed when he became Leader of the Labour party.

  12. Good Moaning.
    Ouch … ouch … and ouch again.
    Gorgeous George does have a way with words.

    “For an alternative view of RLB, here from last month is George Galloway’s withering assessment of her likely candidature: ‘I’ve nothing bad to say about Rebecca Long Bailey. In fact, I’ve nothing to say about her at all, and isn’t that the point . . . there’s nothing there. Her glasses are on but there’s nothing behind them.’”

    https://conservativewoman.co.uk/bilious-becky-worst-among-equals/?utm_source=TCW+Daily+Email&utm_campaign=e3d2a8bfea-Mailchimp+Daily+Email&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_a63cca1cc5-e3d2a8bfea-559682581

    1. Her glasses are on but there’s nothing behind them.

      Morning Anne. Actually she might be the ideal Labour leader for the next five years with those qualifications! Thre’s nothing she can do about the Governments programme and the Party can get on with its Civil War without her interfering!

    1. Morning Eddy. It’s not for export so they don’t have to mumble which covers the dubbing!

      1. I seldom watched the other three ‘live’ – always recorded so I could rewind to hear what they’d said.

    2. ‘Morning, Eddy. Yes, very well worth watching. I’m willing to bet that Pt 2 will show continuation of benefit payments after her ‘disappearance’ although if so it is difficult to understand how these could have continued for so long (16-17 years) without any contact with the claimant or any review of her situation. For me, they were guilty from the moment that she was alleged to have become a gangmaster! Anything less likely for the poor woman is hard to imagine.

      1. Morning Hugh.

        A question which struck me as I was drifting into the land of nod last night was ‘how easy is it to fiddle the benefits system?’

        1. What also surprised me was the sight of the judge furiously typing away as the witnesses spoke. Whatever happened to stenographers?

          1. I think you’ll find that was an old fashioned i-pad and that he was doing a bit of texting.

    1. Morning Anne.

      That’s why, and being brought up believing the Red Indians were all ‘baddies’ (despite having their land pinched), I’m taking a lot of the Iranian ‘news’ with a dollop of salt.

      For what it’s worth, it wasn’t the bloke who’s just been popped off who was responsible for the deaths of British service people in Iraq, it was the one who sent them there.

  16. Trump backs away from further military confrontation with Iran. Thu 9 Jan 2020.

    Donald Trump backed away from further military confrontation with Iran on Wednesday after days of escalating tensions, saying Tehran appeared to be standing down following missile attacks on two Iraqi bases hosting US and coalition troops.

    There seems little doubt that the present Mexican Standoff was arranged between the two parties but there is no guide as to how, who or why. Did the US Chiefs of Staff refuse to countenance a war? Was it warnings from within the administration that it would sink re-election? The hostility of Congress? We will have to wait and see!

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jan/08/trump-backs-away-from-further-military-confrontation-iran

    1. Did the Iranian want to get rid of the naughty General and arranged with Donald to make it happen

      I would think he would have been ‘untouchable’ to the Iranians

        1. Good morning.

          What an absolute leader doesn’t want is his Generals to seem more powerful than he is.

      2. I’ve wondered that.
        I assume no-one’s checking Ayatollah Whatsit’s phone records.
        “Morning, Donald. I will say this only once….”

        1. Who knows? One thing is certain is that the way the Donald arrives at a deal is usually convoluted, and can be perverse. It gives him a great deal of pleasure, and drives everyone else up the wall.

    2. Internally, the Iranians might well be happy to be quit Suleimani, for personal / political reasons, but of course they have to save face by (warning the US then) blowing up a couple of carparks in Iraq. Honour satisfied, bogeyman erased, everyone happy.

  17. Dear Donald,

    So sorry we can’t help with your problems with Iran. As I’m sure you are aware we have a full blown constitutional crisis on our hands with one of our Dukes and an American Citizen requiring the full time attention of HMQ, COBRA and our MSM.

    Best wishes,

    Boris.

      3. Funny how the free press in Iraq never shows the Iranian leader and the Iraqi leader in a similar relationship.

        I wonder why that is?

  18. COFFEE HOUSE – Lindsay Hoyle was a breath of fresh air at PMQs
    Lloyd Evans – 8 January 2020 – 5:28 PM

    New year. New parliament. New speaker of the House of Commons. The change was palpable immediately. Former speaker John Bercow found it impossible to say nothing even when he had nothing to say, which was most of the time. His successor Lindsay Hoyle has the contrary virtue of terseness. He got through the session without uttering a word, other than to state the name of each MP as he called them.

    Jeremy Corbyn, newly elected member for Tehran South, fretted about the legality of Qassem Soleimani’s assassination.

    ‘Not our operation,’ said Boris. He noted that Corbyn had failed to condemn any of Soleimani’s military operations, even though ‘that man had the blood of British troops on his hands.’

    He added that Corbyn had ‘famously received £10,000’ from Iran’s state TV company.

    Corbyn raised his chin with an expression of wounded nobility, as if he’d just discovered mildew on his prize courgettes.

    The Labour leader outlined his simplistic analysis of the present crisis. Boris sucks up to Trump, he argued, and is even prepared to endorse illegal killings because he hopes to secure a trade-deal with the US. ‘This prioritises everything [the prime minister] does,’ he said.

    In other words, Murder whoever you like, Mr President, as long as we can buy truckloads of your scrummy chlorinated chicken.

    Boris had anticipated this:

    ‘I was waiting for the little green men to come out at the end, about the trade-deal. This is absolute fiction.’

    Everyone chuckled at this reference to interplanetary visitors. But the PM showed a regrettable weakness for bombast as he summed up the military position. He came across like an armchair Churchill:

    ‘Our ships, HMS Defender and Montrose, are in an enhanced state of readiness,’ he said gravely. ‘We have relocated non-essential personnel from Baghdad.’

    Let’s hope the crisis abates soon because Field Marshall Johnson doesn’t feel like the genuine article.

    Karl Turner spoke on behalf of Steven Gallant, the life-prisoner who helped to neutralise London Bridge terrorist Usman Khan. He asked the PM to join him in congratulating this unlikely hero.

    Boris went further than necessary.

    ‘I’m lost in admiration (for him),’ he said. ‘Obviously it’s not for the government to decide these things but my hope is that his gallantry will be recognised in the proper way.’

    Surely this is without precedent in parliamentary history. A prime minister salutes the deeds of a convicted murderer. And what does Boris mean by Gallant’s bravery being ‘recognised in the proper way’? A fortnight’s exemption from bog-cleaning duties? An extra game of ping-pong before lights out?

    As MPs started to leave, Michael Fabricant used a point of order to say what everyone else was thinking. He congratulated Speaker Hoyle on having completed the session within the allotted time of 30 minutes. ‘And no one suffered abuse from the Chair,’ he added.

    Loud cheers greeted Hoyle as he rose to respond. Would he indulge in a modest sideswipe at his unlamented predecessor?

    ‘I don’t want to use up the time on that,’ he said.

    What a breath of fresh air.

  20. Morning all

    SIR – We can enjoy clean energy (Letters, January 6), but only if we are prepared to pay for it.

    The technology exists to store the intermittent power generated by wind and solar, and there is the potential for additional power from our consistent tides. Britain is already at the forefront of this transitional revolution with cryogenic batteries.

    Once an adequate return on capital can be assured, infrastructure funds would readily invest.

    Charles Daly

    London EC4

    SIR – Mike Keatinge (Letters, January 2) seems to have forgotten that high and low tides occur at different times and magnitudes in different locations, so while for any one location there may be daily periods when no power is generated, joining tide-driven generators in different places around the UK to form a network will produce a steady supply of power to the grid.

    Peter Gregory

    Maidstone, Kent

    1. SIR – Two tides a day equals four cycles per day, as both ebb and flood tides can be harnessed to generate electricity. Also, flow could be regulated with sluices and pools.

      This would be far better for Britain’s business and industry than HS2, and great for wildlife.

      Keith Allum

      Christchurch, Dorset

      SIR – One of the strongest tides in the British Isles is in the Solent, and putting numerous tidal turbines across it would generate enough power not only for the Isle of Wight, but also for most of the south of England.

      On top of these turbines could be a road, imaginatively designed by one of our leading architects (perhaps with a tunnel under the shipping channel), which would in itself become a tourist attraction.

      If this were to happen, the island would no longer be at the mercy of privately owned ferry companies.

      George Bristow

      Brading, Isle of Wight

    2. “The technology exists to store the intermittent power “ – what might that be? Pumped storage a la Dinorwig? That’s hardly technology. and fabulously expensive and takes a lot of space.

  21. SIR – It should be simple: scrap HS2 and build a few nuclear power stations. Yes, they are expensive to build, but they are cheap to run and provide power year-round, 24 hours a day, using no fossil fuels.

    David Pimblett

    Horbury, West Yorkshire

    1. Small submarine-type nuclear power stations might be the solution, rather than monolithic ones such as Hinckley Point C.

        1. Why not? Knock them out as mass-produced items, they aren’t very big, rarely need refuelled or other significant maintenance, and can be situated where the power is needed, avoiding needing to build out the grid. What’s not to like?

  22. Morning again

    SIR – My sister and I bought our house 40 years ago. We were unable to afford separate houses, so it made sense to buy together.

    However, we now find that as siblings we suffer from discrimination. When one of us dies the other will not only have lost a sister and friend but will also have lost a house.

    Couples have the opportunity of marriage or civil partnership, which ensures inheritance for a partner or spouse, but siblings have no such rights. Surely it is time to end this unfair system.

    Mary and Jane Pritchard

    Richmond, Surrey

          1. If they were “joint-tenants” the survivor gets the dead ones share.

            If they were “tenants in common” they should make wills leaving the share to the other.

            Simple.

  23. SIR – As a young actor I appeared in a long-running series called The Tomorrow People opposite a black actress; something quite remarkable in the Seventies.

    Later, I formed a talent agency with a black, female partner and we represented a number of clients from a range of ethnic backgrounds. I have also been happily married to a black Jamaican for the past 30 years.

    As a voting member of Bafta, I therefore take exception to the suggestion that my choices are based on anything other than excellence in each respective field (“Bafta awards accused of nominations whitewash”, report, January 8).

    This year, there have been a number of brilliant performances by actors and actresses from many racial backgrounds There have also been a number of films made by and starring predominantly black talent. Excellent though these have been, the most outstanding films and performances this year are, for the most part, those appearing on the recently published Bafta shortlist. Attempts to influence future outcomes by altering the composition of voting members through quotas based on sex or ethnicity is patronising in the extreme and demeans the awards themselves.

    I must stress I write as an individual and do not profess to represent anyone other than myself; however, I sincerely believe that Bafta voters’ choices are made for the right reasons and without fear or favour.

    Nicholas Young

    London W1

    1. Well said, Mr Young. You seem to be in favour of ‘the best person for the job’. How refreshing!

    2. The Tomorrow People… Those were the days to be growing up with TV that scared the carp out of schoolchildren up and down the land. Even the opening titles with that unfolding hand. I still remember it 40 years later. Add Gareth Thomas in the series “Children of the Stones” and it was amazing that any of us kids ever left the house.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei7i7RFvrUM

      And here is Nicholas Young from back then as a reminder:

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a9c2d9318f4bd418a363bc05aaed4d3bbcb8d2b9b2e7162c4c8d4a2d57052e93.jpg

  24. SIR – P J Barter (Letters, January 7) claims that the “fee per item of treatment” payments to NHS dentists have stood the test of time.

    He should talk to patients of NHS dentistry aged between 50 and 75. Fees for items of treatment encouraged unnecessary procedures, and many in this age group are now suffering from tooth loss owing to the excessive drilling and filling of their teeth. This is an issue that has never been addressed by the NHS.

    Simon Warde

    Bognor Regis, West Sussex

    2. Silly letter. I suspect there are far fewer people having to put up with false teeth thanks to the policy of preserving the originals wherever possible and , when something major needs to be done, using crowns, implants and bridges rather than an enormous chunk of plastic.

  25. Good morning thinkers.

    I see that the love of money and publicity is the new rule for Harry and his bint .

    What happened to the Girl Guide motto that so many of us held dear to our hearts ..

    On my honour, I promise that I will do my best:
    To do my duty to God and the Queen
    To help other people at all times;
    To obey the Guide Law

        1. For me it’s individual.
          Playing in a team or league achieving a collective goal/objective doesn’t interest me.

          1. I was happy being part of a team in netball as long as I was the shooter. As for hockey, for me the object of the game was to stay as far away from the ball as was possible.

      2. That was me too, PT. I have to some extent regretted it over the years, but one is what one is, and that is that.

        1. I realised I was out of step with everyone else when I was 13/14. I was a loner
          and escaped the comfort of sheep in the fold. I wasn’t exactly a rebel but I hated any kind of injustice
          and would make my feelings known at school …….much safer being a sheep!

  27. I missed it, so this was a good read for me:

    PMQs just isn’t the same without John Bercow. For one thing, it’s less than half as long. Back in October, Mr Bercow let his final PMQs stagger on for a record-breaking 71 minutes. Today Sir Lindsay Hoyle, his successor, wrapped the whole business up in just half an hour – which is in fact how long it’s meant to be. Remarkable how much time can be saved, when the Speaker isn’t delivering interminable lectures about the importance of brevity.

    Then again, Sir Lindsay had it easy, because today there was no need to intervene. The Tory landslide has utterly transformed the atmosphere in the Commons. All the tension has gone, all the drama, all the flaring volatility. At long last, everyone’s stopped shouting. Tories loll in beaming contentment, while Labour slump in listless torpor.

    The quiet in the chamber feels odd, even eerie, if only because in the past three years we’ve become so used to breakneck chaos, knife-edge votes and teetering prime ministers. All of a sudden we find ourselves confronted by the novelty of a functioning government. Frankly, it’s going to take some getting used to.

    Today the Tories hardly even bothered to jeer Jeremy Corbyn, beyond a few grumbles and shouts of “Shame!” when he suggested that the killing of Qassim Soleimani was illegal. Instead they reserved their heckles for the SNP, who again and again demanded a new referendum on Scottish independence.

    The answer was of course the same on each occasion, but still they kept on plugging away. By the third time of asking, Boris Johnson had had enough. “Stop going on about breaking up the union!” he snorted.

    The Prime Minister’s weariness was understandable. In the SNP’s defence, though, it should probably be acknowledged that breaking up the union is precisely what they were founded to do, and so telling them to stop going on about it is a bit like telling the RSPB to stop going on about birds, or the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association to stop going on about guide dogs for the blind.

    Still, Mr Johnson’s MPs didn’t seem put out. If anything, they enjoyed the nationalists’ persistence. Take their response to the question from Brendan O’Hara (SNP, Argyll & Bute).

    “Margaret Thatcher…” he began.

    “HOORAAAAAY!” bellowed the Tories. So prolonged was their cheering that the rest of the question was completely drowned out.

    Patiently Mr O’Hara waited for them to quieten down, and then had another go.

    “Margaret Thatcher…” he began.

    “HOORAAAAAY!” bellowed the Tories again.

    That apart, everyone was almost unsettlingly well-behaved. At the end, on a point of order, Michael Fabricant (Con, Lichfield) effusively praised Sir Lindsay on his PMQs debut. What a wonderful change it made, he gushed, to have a Speaker who was so efficient, and so fair, and kept the House to order, and didn’t let everything overrun, and…

    Fittingly, Sir Lindsay said he wasn’t going to waste time responding to that, and moved briskly on.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/08/john-bercow-gone-remainers-vanquished-pmqs-has-utterly-transformed/

    1. Morning LD,
      We have yet to ascertain for whom this function government best interest they
      have at their political heart.

    2. The SNP should be reminded that they have tax raising and spending powers and that they should use them to generate financial independence for Scotland.

    2. And Canada Plus for both. They are banished to the cold wilds of the Canadian forests while we execute the Canada Plus deal with Brussels.

  30. Good morning. Shockingly late on parade. Slept until 10 am – something I haven’t done for about 30 years!

    18 degrees already. Bloody sunshine…. Lunch will be outside.

    How sad about Brash and Trash…(sarc).

        1. ‘The LORD is longsuffering and abundant in mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression; but He by no means clears the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generation.’

          (Numbers 14: 18)

    1. 90% of my posts, yesterday, were downvoted. Apart, that is, from this post …

      Whoever it is, Pud, they are a gutless, whingeing, mincing, kiddie-fiddling arsewipe (and that’s just for starters).
      If ever the technology becomes available to identify them, they had better start shitting their pants because I’m coming for them and it won’t be pretty.

      … which accumulated 4 downvotes.

      Must have touched a nerve.

      1. The pathetic, attic-living, drooling, pot-noodle-gobbing, pussy-averse wankers are queueing up now.

        2. I just did a test downvote on your post and immediately did an upvote . I wanted to see if one cancels out the other. It did.

          If everyone were to upvote a post of yours, by elimination, we would have our downvoter.

          7. I’ve got eight now, and counting. Is this a record?

            Is Norris McWhirter still active?

          9. I have a theory (to be shot down by all the naysayers).

            I am now firmly of the belief that there is just one downvoter. Yup, just one scraping off the sluice wall.

            This piece of excess warthog smegma has multiple accounts and is using them one by one.

            Am I right, or am I not wrong, plankton?

          11. He’s been polite and reasonable in his latest incarnation. I wouldn’t have thought he’d bother.

          12. Grizzly – That has often been my experience with those sad sacks on the left. On one paper that I went to 4 years ago there was a guy we called “Trev57” because that was one of the earlier names that he used. He was not very intelligent, obviously, and had certain “giveaways” when he made comments using different accounts, which made it obvious that it was him.

            I stopped counting when he had 40+ different names that he was using. He would reply to comments on 3-day old stories that no-one else was reading, and if anyone replied then he would use 20 different accounts to give them 20 downvotes. This is the level of loser that we are dealing with.

            I would rather give a left wing supporter a verbal slap to educate them and then go to make a cup of tea, instead of spending all of that time and effort just to lower someones score on a website. This is one of the many reasons that we are better than them and why we will win. The things that we do matter. 🙂

    1. You should see what they found in Lancashire, same as in Yorkshire but with A levels.

  33. As this down-voting bollocks is now going faster than I can type – that’s the end of NoTTL for me.

    It has been a pleasure over the last six years knowing you.

    I just hope that the forum will be allowed to continue.

    Meanwhile, my eternal thanks to Geoff for all the pleasure he has enabled us to have.

    1. Don’t take any notice of them, Bill!

      It’s not us downvoting, so do us a favour and stay with us.

    2. If you leave the NoTTL site permanently, Bill, then this site will be a poorer place without you. I urge you to reconsider.

    3. Please don’t go.

      The down voters like the Remainers must not be allowed to triumph by taking your scalp.

      You must keep in touch with your many friends here.

      (I am only here as you recommended me to come)

    4. Bill – do not take the down-voting seriously in ANY way. All that has happened is that a minor Labour Momentum teenager, sitting in his depressing little room, has discovered this channel since the free disqus channels ended. In his excitement at finding “old people who are easily wound up” he has emailed his other sad little friends. Now they will all downvote people precisely to try and upset them / drive them away. It means nothing.

      All of us here have had far more life experience than they will ever have. When the real world comes into their lives, they will discover what being upset really means.

    5. Willem. Don’t actually allow the Grubby Underpants One to achieve his spotty dreams.
      The down vote thing is very minor compared to the wit and wisdom of the NOTTL ‘community’. (Aaarrgghhhhhhh…..)

    7. Why care, Bill? It is no indicator of the respect we hold for you, just some childish idiot somewhere.

    8. There must be a bot running this. I don’t usually note my ticks or no ticks, but I spotted I had a minus three on a post yesterday!

    9. Get back here, Beagle! Your application to leave this forum has been comprehensively rejected…

    10. Wear them like ASBOs. You have to take the rough with the smooth in life, and we all like a bit if rough now and again.. Now go out and get yer collar and lead.

    11. Bill, I mostly just lurk here, but I always enjoy your comments and would be sad to see you go. Please don’t take the downvotes personally!

    12. Please don’t go Bill. You are the beating heart of this site. I never look at the up or down votes, perhaps I am not sufficiently verbose. But don’t let them win. Dodge the slings and arrows of up-and-down voting and come out the other side onto the smiling sunlit uplands. What is an up or downvote between friends?

    13. Bill, you are now doing exactly what the down-voters and autobot trolls want. To close this site down (because it spouts truth too often) by gradually wearing the contributors down.

      My advice – ignore them.

        1. Is that directed at me or Bill? Both of us have well passed 70 so, despite your curt, and somewhat barbed, response(s) I think we are both grown up enough to ignore tart remarks.

      2. Morning NtN,
        Precisely, & may I add the very same that has happened / is happening to UKIP via the NEc.

    14. Two desertions in one day!

      We can cope with the disappearance of Harry and his loathsome lady but we cannot cope without you!

    15. Don’t go, Bill – come on, you’ll miss us!

      If you look at the Discuss Disqus channel, it’s a very widespread problem. I’ve lost going on for 5000 votes in the last couple of days too.

      All it does is limit your ability to comment on sites like Breitbart but it’s such a bear pit over there, why would you want to anyway?

      I have wondered whether a new account is the answer but then the mods here will need to start again confirming approved users and it may not solve the problem anyway.

      1. The Speccie blog site is bad for downvoters. There’s a lot of trolls over there that really go town with downvoting.

    16. Bill – I’ve been away for a few days, so I’ve just seen your post. For what it’s worth, I think the ‘disappearing upvotes’ and the downvotes are two separate issues. You post at the Speccie, where all manner of trolls and sockpuppets hang out. It’s quite possible that someone there has taken a dislike or some reason, and is seeking out your posts and downvoting them with multiple identities. Or someone here. Doesn’t have to be anyone we know – there may be all sorts of lurkers who never actually post anything, but seeing that you’re offended by downvotes, are winding you up. It’s seriously not worth getting worked up about.

      As for the disappearing upvotes, this is happening across the Disqus platform, and is certainly a glitch in the system – not, as you seem to imagine, some individual deleting your upvotes one by one.

      Anyway – if you must go, go with our good wishes. You will be missed, and NoTTL will be much the poorer in your absence…

  34. Sainsbury’s recall pesto over peanut allergy fears

    It just shows the futility of this. Without totally desperate production lines for each product you are always going to get this. LInes are cleaned down before switching to another product but you are always going to get some level of cross contamination

    Sainsbury’s are recalling five different types of pesto over fears they could be contaminated with peanuts.

    The supermarket’s green pesto, lighter green pesto, chilli pesto, red pesto, and spinach and ricotta pesto – all sold in 190g jars – are being removed from shelves nationwide.

    In an announcement to their customers, a Sainsbury’s spokesman said: “It has been brought to our attention that these products may contain traces of peanut which is not declared on the pack.

      1. Probably worried the government and pressure groups will object.. The reality is though that small amounts of cross contamination cannot be avoided no matter how much effort goes into cleaning a line before another product goers down it

        Some restaurants do put such a disclaimer on their menus. For them it is almost impossible to avoid some cross contamination . They cannot have separate saucepans and food mixers and ovens for everything

        1. Obviously a peanut allergy is very risky for those unfortunate enough to be affected. I think in their case I would be very careful of buying anything that wasn’t just primary ingredients. They need to learn to cook.

          1. Even then if produced in a production environment there is always the risk of some cross contamination. The could say be making biscuits with nut in them one week and biscuits without nut the next week

      1. That may well be the idea, PT. Along with the encouragement of veganism etc. Death to our food supplies by 1000 cuts (and thus more state control).

      2. In a production environment you will get cross contamination it is impossible to avoid

  35. Barry Gardiner shocks Labour with hint he may run for leadership

    Barry Gardiner, the shadow international trade secretary, has said he is considering running for Labour party leader, in a shock announcement made just days before nominations close.
    He said on Wednesday night he would make up his mind in the following 24 hours but is understood to have been encouraged to stand as an alternative leftwing candidate by MPs concerned that Rebecca Long Bailey’s campaign has got off to a poor start.
    The frontrunner – the shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer – is racing ahead in popularity among members with a mounting number of official nominations.

      1. BG reminds me of a former German TV host, Dieter Thomas Heck, who had chronic logorrhoea. I wince very time I see him on a panel like QT.

  36. May I suggest that each of goes through all the comments and give them ALL down-votes, thus minimising the weird little trolls efforts.

  37. Just checked – 2.000 votes down since 09:00 today.
    One thing to say to the downvoter – Stupid boy!

  39. ‘Morning All

    Daily Brexit Betrayal

    “However in their

    meeting Mr Johnson was “clear that the UK would not extend the

    Implementation Period beyond 31 December 2020”, a Downing Street

    spokesman said. The Prime

    Minister also told her that “any future partnership must not involve any

    kind of alignment or ECJ jurisdiction. He said the UK would also

    maintain control of UK fishing waters and our immigration system.”

    However, he said the UK would “continue to ensure high standards in the

    UK in areas like workers’ rights, animal welfare, agriculture and the

    environment.” The Prime Minister’s press secretary added: “The UK has a

    long history of having higher standards on a number of issues than the

    EU and that is a proud tradition that we will continue.” (paywalled link)

    Please underline and bookmark that last remark

    by the PM’s press secretary! This is a truth Remainers everywhere want

    to be kept swept under their Remain carpet! Moreover, it’s as if

    Brussels still hasn’t got the message that there will be no extension.

    https://independencedaily.co.uk/your-daily-brexit-betrayal-thursday-9th-january-2020/

  40. There seems to be some confusion on here between the Upvote totals on the profiles diminishing which is affecting us all and the Downvoting of individuals for whatever cause.

    I’ve read Hatmans explanation for the first which I confess is Greek to me and I don’t care anyway. The second, the Downvoting has I think always occurred but was hidden because they were not shown until recently. Still nothing to get excited about unless you are interested in gaining the Best position at the end of the day!

    Off to the Supermarket now!

  41. Thank you all who urged me to stay. I am off. Really.

    Suffice to say that not all NoTTLers feel the same way about me – I have been very conscious of this in the last few weeks.

    Believe it or not, I am a sensitive soul and don’t like the feeling of being disliked, even it it some nut down voting or a troll bot or whatever. Sometimes I wonder if it is closer to home.

    Anyway, fare thee all well. Keep NoTTLing on.

    1. Enjoy the rest of your holiday, Bill – I hope you will come back refreshed, We don’t want to lose you from here – and the downvoting/loss of upvotes is a side issue which we are aware of but don’t worry about.

    4. Bill Thomas – take some time offline to clear the mind. I try to do that at least once a year. You might miss the sparkling repartee here, or at least the cat videos and recipes. You will certainly be welcomed back whenever you decide to ignore the Momentum trolls and their downvoting.

    6. Just don’t look at your upvote numbers. If it wasn’t such a ‘hot’ topic I wouldn’t even know it was happening.

    8. Hello Bill. This has come as a surprise to me as I am here every day and was not aware of any antagonism toward you. Rather the reverse, in fact. In my view NoTTLers hold you in great affection. I, for one, will miss your inputs if you leave and I am sure I am not alone. Please reconsider, take a break and return refreshed.

      1. Wish I had your eloquence, Delboy.
        I agree with your point 100% (higher values are available)

    9. You will be missed. You are part of the fabric of Nttl. I don’t know what the current problem is but many years ago the Telegraph accounts started losing upvotes because many others were closing down. I notice that the downvotes on here have increased greatly recently. Probably just one or two disgruntled posters who cannot express themselves coherently and resort to childish ways. Best ignore them. I have downvoted some in the past because they weren’t worth engaging in discussion but gave up because it is futile. It achieves nothing. I would prefer you stay – but it is your choice.

      1. Sorry Peddy, I have said it before and I shall probably say it again. Why are we able to see who has upvoted our posts but not allowed to see who the down voters are?

        I remember a particularly spiteful woman who used to say very nasty things to and about many of us here. At first I was shocked and a bit upset until I realised that the poor woman was probably a most inadequate lonely and unfulfilled person more deserving of our pity than our censure.

        1. I agree, downvotes should be tagged with the name. By the way, Ndovu is right, I am Ped, not Peddy. Many, many years ago I registered with the Daily Telegraph as Per but it ended up as Ped and I have been stuck with it ever since.

          1. Yes I am aware of the fact that Ped and peddyheviking are not the same person! Indeed, I doubt if Ped is interested in people’s teeth and does not have an inveterate objection to repetitions and bad grammar.

          2. & I am peddy, sometimes erroneously called Ped. Coincidently I look like Ped’s former avatar; he looks like mine. (Sorry, Ped)

        2. I agree, downvotes should be tagged with the name. By the way, Ndovu is right, I am Ped, not Peddy. Many, many years ago I registered with the Daily Telegraph as Per but it ended up as Ped and I have been stuck with it ever since.

        3. Hi Rastus.

          I have said before & I’ll say it again. There was an time when downvoters became visible, but there was such an outcry that the facility was removed & ever since we’ve had anonymous downvoting.

          1. You ca get scripts from the interweb that reveal them. My PC won’t allow me to load these, though.

          2. Tell me where, Paul and I’ll have a go. I am computer literate enough to be bluddy dangerous.

          3. My thoughts as well. When I saw *Jenny* appear I thought it might be her in a different guise but the comments from her were reasoned and not at all ‘know it all’, as were those of JSP.

          5. I always thought of Jenny as a different person because JSP hated abbreviations of her name.

      2. Sorry Peddy, I have said it before and I shall probably say it again. Why are we able to see who has upvoted our posts but not allowed to see who the down voters are?

        I remember a particularly spiteful woman who used to say very nasty things to and about many of us here. At first I was shocked and a bit upset until I realised that the poor woman was probably a most inadequate lonely and unfulfilled person more deserving of our pity than our censure.

    10. Bill, you now find yourself in the position that I did, for different reasons. I haven’t seen the perpetrator of my distress here recently and will bugger off as soon as I do, but you shouldn’t go.

    12. Sorry to hear that some idiot has upset you and possibly others. I’ve been around this week but not paying too much attention and I was surprised at Geoff’s comments the other morning. Take care, enjoy your holiday and it would be nice see you contribute again. KBO.

    13. Bilty, I had no idea you were thinking of leaving.
      The number of original Nottlers has been dwindling for some time. Please change your mind, I’ll miss your comments and puns 🙁

    14. “Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here”

      Ah, make the most of what we yet may pen
      Before we too into the Downvotes descend;
      Dust into Dust, and under Dust to lie,
      Sans Bill, sans Song, sans Singer, and–sans End!

      (With apols to Bill and E Fitzgerald

    15. Please don’t go, you were one of the reasons I started reading the BTL comments in the Telegraph all those years ago.

    16. I’m tempted to give you a down-vote for saying that. Stop around. As someone said to me once about something else – ” Don’t let the buggers win “/

    17. Dear Bill, that’s the point of these down-voters, to drive the decent commenters away. So don’t let them.

      ‘nil carborundum illegitimi’.

    21. I can but echo all the comments asking you to stay Bill. These days we all need a laugh, your wit and puns have provided that for us Nottlers. Please have a relaxing holiday with MR and come back feeling refreshed.

  42. On the streets of Tehran, the fear: we’re one misjudgment away from all-out war. 9 January 2020.

    Here in Iran, there is no question at the sense of shock and grief that Qassem Soleimani, a genuinely popular national figure, was killed by the United States on an official visit to neighbouring Iraq.

    Millions of people flocked to mourn his death in Iran’s towns and cities on Tuesday morning. In one funeral procession in the south-eastern Iranian city of Kerman, at least 56 people are reported to have been killed in a stampede due to overcrowding.

    Morning everyone. This sort of thing is, to myself at least, one of the most obvious differences between the East and the West. Whenever I watch TV footage of their leaders being lionised either alive at Elections, or as in this particular case dead from Foreign Intervention. I’m always amazed but also dismayed by what I regard as the peoples ridiculous enthusiasm for the individual concerned. Respect or even admiration is understandable in certain cases but surely no one is worthy of such emotional excess? I’m pretty certain (this is of course a personal view), that Boris Johnson, indeed the whole of Westminster could be assassinated tomorrow and though the MSM would go overboard, all it would elicit from Joe Bloggs, would be some grumbling about the amount of BBC coverage. We do of course gather at State events but they are orderly affairs; attended I suspect more from vulgar curiosity and the future bragging rights than public adoration. The only exception to this that I can think of is Lady Di’s funeral which seemed to mark a turning point in the UK’s cultural psyche but I am hopeful that it was a one off.

    Am I being unduly cynical? Perhaps we are too laid back? If so, they are, so far as I am concerned desirable traits. It seems to me no coincidence that the elevation of Men into Gods is too often an accompaniment to perdition for the masses!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7867107/PETER-OBORNE-streets-Tehran-fear-one-misjudgment-away-war.html

    1. ‘Morning, Minty.

      We are repeatedly (Rastus not guilty on this one) being told that the crowds in Tehran are forced to turn out for these demos for fear of their lives.

        1. The ‘enthusiasm’ is part of the Zwang. To quote a well-known musical: “they are falling over themselves to get all of the misery right”.

    2. Morning Araminta.

      As the wedding photographer who spends half an hour getting people to stand still and look the same way can tell you, doing ‘do as you’re told’ doesn’t come naturally to us.

      Not acting like shoals of fish is, I think, a good trait.

    3. We also get crowds of public servants swarming like wasps; the difference being that the Iranian government actually gives them the day off, while ours spinelessly lets them play hooky and tells the police to fraternise with them.

    4. Don’t forget, that if one doesn’t show the right level of distress, one might find onesself hung from a crane in the near future… and did you see the eulogies in their parliament, with stout clerics weeping? The way their shoulders were heaving, it looked like they were pissing themselves laughing!

  43. ConWoman nails the Ginge and the Cringe

    LET’S be clear. This isn’t about racism and this certainly is not about

    Harry and Meghan wanting a quiet, private life of dignity and respect.

    This is about narcissism, this is about self-obsession and this will

    ultimately be about them continuing to lecture us all about what we

    should do, what we eat and how many kids we should have. These lectures

    will be paid for by the public, as it is laughable to believe Harry and

    Meghan can ever become ‘financially independent’. The only reason those

    who hold the cheque books will be interested in their views is because

    they are members of the royal family.

    https://conservativewoman.co.uk/harry-and-meghan-an-utter-disgrace/
    It all started with a Bang,it will end with a Whim Pair

    3. It is difficult to see either of them “rolling up their sleeves and doing an honest days work.” Although they might. I am unaware of any blindingly incisive business acumen that they may possess. They do have their titles which will open some doors for them. They might just want to live private lives, although that seems unlikely for her.

      I would hate to be famous.

      1. Harry served his country………she was a third rate actress who turned his head. I feel very sorry for his family.

          1. I don’t think the press hounded him while he was serving. Like his mother, he has used them when it’s convenient for himself.

        3. As Harry’s grandfather perceptively observed:

          Actresses may be fun to have a tumble with but you should never marry them.

        4. I suspect Harry is loyal to the Crown, but they both have to go down together before the disentanglement and the rehabilitation of Harry can commence. It will be out of the public eye for some time, then drifts of news of good works in Africa, or saving koalas and roos in Australia.

    2. Heartening to see the man on the jetty getting ready to dive into the water to rescue other workers.

    3. What amuses me is that the two men on the jetty, seem totally and utterly unconcerned.

  45. The Mehmsahib and I have decided to retire from our Royal duties and will live quietly and humbly in that cottage you paid for making a living calling you all a bunch of racists and setting up an instagram account as major influencers.

    Goodbye and thanks for all the fish.

    1. “Ok, then it is clear to me the EU should regulate & take control” or, after translation from EUspeak “censor anyone who doesn’t agree with us”

  47. It is hardly surprising that Harry, not so long ago the most loved young royal, is now looked at with contempt and pity.

    How long will it be, many of us ask ourselves, before his wife decides that he is not what she really wants as a lover, husband and father of her child and deserts him while holding on to as much of his money as she can? Thomas Wyatt’s poem came into my mind.

    They Flee from Me
    Thomas Wyatt – 1503-1542

    They flee from me, that sometime did me seek,
    With naked foot stalking in my chamber.
    I have seen them, gentle, tame, and meek,
    That now are wild, and do not remember
    That sometime they put themselves in danger
    To take bread at my hand; and now they range,
    Busily seeking with a continual change.

    Thanked be Fortune it hath been otherwise,
    Twenty times better; but once in special,
    In thin array, after a pleasant guise,
    When her loose gown from her shoulders did fall,
    And she me caught in her arms long and small,
    And therewith all sweetly did me kiss
    And softly said, “Dear heart, how like you this?”

    It was no dream, I lay broad waking.
    But all is turned, thorough my gentleness,
    Into a strange fashion of forsaking;
    And I have leave to go, of her goodness,
    And she also to use newfangleness.
    But since that I so kindely am served,
    I fain sould know what she hath deserved.

  48. The Harry and Meghan story should increase respect for the Duchess of Kent. Katharine Kent isn’t very widely liked but she really did step down from royal status, giving up her HRH title and living a quiet life, teaching music. Of course she has talent and intelligence, even if she really is a disagreeable individual, which I’ve heard from a friend who met her when working for a couturier who dressed the duchess many years ago.

    1. I had no idea she wasn’t a particularly nice person. I always thought she carried out her royal duties with grace.

          3. Strange – I found her eventually from the link under her maiden name in the Duke of Kent’s page.

    2. I had no idea she wasn’t a particularly nice person. I always thought she carried out her royal duties with grace.

    3. Yes, Sue. I remember her now. She represented the Queen at the Coronation of the King of Tonga….:-)

    4. Where isn’t the Duchess of Kent “very widely liked”, Sue? I’m quite surprised by that statement. I have met, shaken hands with, and chatted very amicably with the Duchess and she has always come across to me as a very well-liked and respected individual. I have never heard of anyone disliking her.

      I even remember when she was simply Miss Katharine Worsley, when she was married to the Duke of Kent way back in 1961. I thought at the time that she was the most beautiful member of the Royal Family that I had seen and I haven’t changed my mind since.

      But I’m bound to like her, aren’t I? I share her birthday (even though I am 18 years her junior).

    5. Where has her not been liked come from? Mostly she has seemed only shy and retiring, but I remember how gracious, comforting and maternal she was when Jana Novotna broke down and wept on her shoulder when she lost Wimbledon.

  49. The Harry and Meghan story should increase respect for the Duchess of Kent. Katharine Kent isn’t very widely liked but she really did step down from royal status, giving up her HRH title and living a quiet life, teaching music. Of course she has talent and intelligence, even if she really is a disagreeable individual, which I’ve heard from a friend who met her when working for a couturier who dressed the duchess many years ago.

  50. Today should be the Last Day for the Exiting the EU Bill. If it passes which it should it then goes for Royal Accent so we should be set for leaving on the 31st

    1. Is that the ‘mouth full of marbles’ accent, received pronunciation or estuary essex accent?

    3. BJ,
      Leaving with a monitoring bracelet
      strapped to the nations ankle or what ?
      If as many “hope” johnson pulls it of to the satisfaction of true Brexitexiteers then IMO we as a country are in possession of the one & only political spotless leopard.

  51. China will benefit from us having clean energy, because they will make everything there using cheap fossil fuel energy then ship it here using fossil fuel energy and we will have to buy it because we will all be too poor to buy anything made here.

  52. Super lunch, roast wild duck, simple boiled potatoes and peas, with a home made orange sauce. Dry sherry then a bottle of Macon Rouge. Cigar ?

    2. Were the ‘simple’ boiled potatoes from Lancashire, John? You could have got some better ‘educated’ ones from Yorkshire! :•)

    3. I had a slice of de-frozen stuffing in an M&S mini roll. And an apple… I’m still over 12 stone… A Manx kipper with bread and butter tonight. (And tomorrow since they come in pairs!)

  53. I’m definitely with Plum on this down-voting malarky.

    Like the friendless hackers who don’t have a pub to go to, there are malicious folk out there who have little better to do than to cause a bit of upset and to stir things up.

    As long as my voice gets heard by the good folk on here and I can see what the good folk on here say, that’s all that matters to me.

    1. Down-votes were originally covered up (not just here), I think, because mostly trolls do down-voting. Rarely upvoting, because there is no malicious satisfaction from up-voting.

      1. It must be some sort of Bot, Tony. Not only can I not see anyone wanting to click away for an hour or so, if I give a downtick and repeat it, it toggles on and off. In other words, I can only give one downtick per post per session.

        Try it on my or your post.

        1. Its not a bot, its malcontents with several ID’s that are used specifically to Flag & Down Vote . They never comment with the ID’s and unless they post comments cannot be identified & banned

          1. There seems to be two separate issues at play – the vote-gobbling bot and the downvoting malcontents.

          2. Happy Thursday Jules, exactly – both are at work on here & other blogs belonging to former channel owners, the down voters use multiple ID’s to annoy posters and the vote-gobbling bot creator is determined to get us off of Disqus .

      1. They must be clever because I can’t give more than one per post per session. I’ve just downvoted you but when I do it a second time, it cancels the first

  54. Top DT letter:

    “SIR – We can enjoy clean energy (wind, solar and tidal), but only if we are prepared to pay for it.”

    Were it 100 times what we’re paying today, we couldn’t ‘enjoy’ clean energy, simply because it doesn’t exist in the quantity we need.

      1. Coincidentally, there’s been a solitary white duck at the same location for ages but hasn’t been there since Christmas.

        I hope my suspicion is just that.

  57. The Labour Government are very poorly represented in the Brexit debate this afternoon.. The whingeing over represented Scots MPs are having a field day attacking the Conservatives with their anti Brexit views and their lust for another Independence referendum. This is not a debate, it is a farce.

      1. An Ayrshire SNP MP resorted to his slang Scottish accent to make a vulgar comment when a colleague [ I think Wishart] gave way to him. Owen Paterson gave a strong speech. on Fishing . A sarcastic Scot, it might have been Wishart, suggested that Nigel Farage should be made a peer. These SNP MPs are bad losers.

    3. What Labour Government? I thought we voted the Conservatives in last month? Have I been asleep?

      1. Whoops Iffy – I should have said Labour Party .
        A Labour Government is a long way off.

        1. :o)

          For a moment there I thought I’d slipped into some strange parallel universe!

  58. KeolisAmey fined £2.3m for poor performance

    A train company contracted to run Transport for Wales services, KeolisAmey, has been fined £2.3m for poor performance.
    Economy Minister Ken Skates said the penalty notices were “vital” to get the company to improve, saying the company had not lived up to what was agreed.
    Recent improvements must continue, he added. The company took over the £5bn franchise in October 2018.
    KeolisAmey has been asked for comment.
    The company was awarded the franchise by the Welsh Government in 2018.

  60. Banks told to stop short-changing loyal savers

    Millions of savers who leave money in the same account for years should get a better deal under plans published by the City regulator.
    Under the proposals, banks would have to set a single long-term interest rate for all easy access savings accounts to avoid the loyalty penalty.
    The Financial Conduct Authority (FCA) said providers could still offer one-year introductory offers.
    But the new single rate should avoid banks whittling down rates after that.

  61. Northern rail can continue only ‘for months’, transport secretary says

    Troubled rail operator Northern has the finances to continue only “for a number of months”, the government has said.
    Transport Secretary Grant Shapps has announced he is evaluating a proposal from the train operator on options for continuing its franchise.
    The process could ultimately lead to the government taking control of services, he said.
    Arriva Rail North, which operates Northern services, apologised to customers for ongoing disruption.
    The company has faced a range of issues in recent years, such as widespread cancellations amid the introduction of new timetables.

  62. Greater Anglia Told to Improve Performance

    Greater Angela has been warned its current level of service is unacceptable and has to improve

      1. Seems to be bit of a clamp down on Rail companies over poor performance

        The rail companies have got away with poor performance for decades. whether this is just hot air or will be followed through remains to be seen

        What other businesses would be allowed to get away with what rail companies do?

      2. Seems to be bit of a clamp down on Rail companies over poor performance

        The rail companies have got away with poor performance for decades. whether this is just hot air or will be followed through remains to be seen

        What other businesses would be allowed to get away with what rail companies do?

  63. Coronation Street bosses working on ‘genre-bending’ ideas for 60th anniversary

    Bill Roach comes out as Transgender ?

          1. Blistering barnacles in a thundering typhoon.

            Or, as he puts it in French:

            Bachi-bouzouk.
            Mille millions de mille sabords.
            Bougres de faux jetons à la sauce tartare.
            Coloquinte à la graisse de hérisson.
            Espèce de mérinos mal peignés.
            Cyrano à quatre pattes.
            Zouave interplanétaire.

  64. News website rating tool Newsguard to start charging for service

    Cannot say I have ever hear of it

    Newsguard, an online tool that rates and ranks news websites for credibility and transparency, is adopting a subscription model which means it will no longer be free to use.

    The US start-up launched in the UK nine months ago, assigning a “green” (pass) or “red” (fail) rating to every major news website according to how many of its nine criteria were met.

    It drew controversy over its decision to give Mail Online a red rating, on a par with Russian state-backed news services RT (Russia Today) and Sputnik, but later admitted its mistake and amended it to green.

  65. Debenhams to shut for good in Welwyn Garden City as chain fights for survival

    Just to confuse things Welwyn Garden City is not actually a City

    On January 15, the Debenhams store in Welwyn Garden City will close for good as a result of the company failing to adapt to online rivals and the decline of high street shopping.

    Full list of Debenhams store closures:

    Altrincham, Greater Manchester – 11 January

    Birmingham The Fort – 11 January

    Kirkcaldy, Fife – 11 January

    Walton-on-Thames, Surrey – 11 January

    Wandsworth, London – 11 January

    Wolverhampton – 11 January

    Chatham, Kent – 15 January

    Great Yarmouth, Norfolk – 15 January

    Slough, Berkshire – 15 January

    Stockton-on-Tees, Co Durham – 15 January

        1. LD,
          The london qualifies with bells on, & the Peterborough war office takes up the horizon.
          mosques are not built in a day but work is in progress and with the continuing help of the lab/lib/con coalition party every town will have a super mosque,& may I add this current electorate deserve one on every corner.
          Thank allah for PC / Appeasement and such a large cast of fools in one country.

      2. It can all get very confusing over time many Many hamlets become towns and towns become hamlets as the designation never changes

        Technically a hamlet is a small village without a church and a town has a church an a city is supposed to have a cathedral

        WE may need a new designation for urban areas with a Mosque

        1. BJ,
          Hamlets become big villages, villages become
          big towns, towns become big cities, all on account of mass uncontrolled immigration.

    2. WTF is June Sarpong and who gave her the attribute of being important enough to make MAJOR addresses?

  67. Kate Beckinsale Slams Internet Trolls Shaming Her for Spending Time with Machine Gun Kelly

    What is wrong with these Luvie snowflakes ?

    I have not a clue who this Machine Gun Kelly is

    Kate Beckinsale has slammed internet trolls who shamed her for spending time with Machine Gun Kelly.
    The Underworld actress, 46, shared a video of her cat, Willow, knocking over a glass a rosé on her Instagram account on Tuesday.
    In the comment section of her post, however, Beckinsale responded to comments shaming her for hanging out with Machine Gun Kelly, whose real name is Colson Baker, after the Golden Globes on Sunday night.

  69. DT Story

    Harry and Meghan choose independence – except they’ll keep Frogmore Cottage and earnings from Prince Charles

    Why should they receive one penny? Shouldn’t she return to her job as a Z list actress in ‘B’ movies while Harry stays at home to look after the quadroon? Apparently the Duchess of Windsor grew to despise her third husband. I wonder if The Duchess of Sussex already despises her second or did she despise him from the very beginning and use Mrs Simpson as her role model and mentor?.

    The delays and the obfuscations over Brexit have shown the world that Britain has become weak and is ripe to be deceived and exploited so this nasty and manipulative woman has chosen a weak and unintelligent victim to further her rasping and mercenary ambitions. Poor Harry may deserve what has happened to him but it is not just him and the British people who have been conned and humiliated – it is also our aged queen.

    1. I don’t think she used Mrs Simpson as her role model. Mrs Simpson was rumoured to be male, and Mrs Engelson appears to have produced an heir to tie poor Harry to her apron strings. Mind you, she’s probably never owned an apron.

      1. If they can’t hack it they’re better off out of the charade and so are we.
        I could write the script…

        2. Good morning, Bill. Yet again, I say, do please reconsider your decision to withdraw from the NoTTL site. It won’t be the same without you.

      5. Maybe it was her third religion I was thinking of: Episcopalian, Jewish, Church of England. Is there a Church of Canada she might join?

    3. Brexit, Iran, Immigration, etc

      ‘Arry and his Tart’s antic provide the ideal time to bury Bad News

  72. As this is rapidly becoming the Jill Backson ( ©Uncle Bill ) soapbox, i’m signing off for the rest of the day.

    1. Oh no, Dear One, that is not fair!!

      I have just arrived……and I have yet to make a decision!1 :-))

      1. You have been remiss, Flower. I never got a thankyou for the fish paste ensemble. All silk in future for you !

  73. Ombudsman tells Islington Council to apologise to woman whose car was clamped for two months after PCN error

  74. I have made an NTTL executive decision. Effective immediately Down votes are now Up votes and Up votes are down votes

    1. It’s a corker of an article.
      The Gruesome Twosome want to eat their cake and have it.
      Keep the title and the various family income sources. Keep Frogmella Cottage for the odd occasion they fly in to patronise a soup kitchen and lecture us on our holiday habits.

    2. She’s not been an asset to the RF – Harry, used to be so popular, but I don’t think people care much for either of them now.

  81. Celebrate WE are formally leaving the EU

    3rd Reading Passed. We are now leaving the EU on the 31st. It does technically need the Queen to rubber stamp it

    1. We won’t be completely out until the end of the transition period at the end of the year. But yes, at least this confirms we will no longer be members of the EU on 31/01/2020.

    5. BJ,
      Any of her knights or in-house
      MPs / PM,exPMs will show her the art of rubber stamping, they are ALL
      well practised.

      1. But Joseph which is greener? A 1974 Diesel Land Rover (over 200,000 m on the clock if that matters any more) or 15 vehicles should I have chosen to buy a new one every 3 years.

  83. Airbus ‘sees potential to expand’ after Brexit

    The chief executive of Airbus has said the future of its British wing plants is “secure” and there is “great potential to expand” post Brexit.
    The aerospace giant had warned it could move wing-building out of the UK in the event of a no-deal Brexit.
    Airbus employs 13,500 people in the UK, including 6,000 at its site in Broughton, Flintshire.
    On Wednesday, Guillaume Faury said the fact MPs had backed Boris Johnson’s Brexit deal made things more “certain”.

    1. I’m slightly worried that 42 people seem to ‘follow’ my tax whinging posts.

      Come on lads, upvote all my posts!

    2. I’ve never bothered with up or down votes and, to be honest, can’t understand why so many do get as upset as they do.

      1. Disqus generates a “reputation” score behind the scenes, which takes into account up/down votes, as well as posts marked ‘spam’. If a particular account accumulates a low rep-score, you might find yourself barred from posting on MSM sites (and others…).

    4. It can be annoying the first time that it happens to you. Four years ago many of us “pro-Brexit” people had our accounts deactivated from some newspapers, losing 10,000’s votes in a keystroke. We kept on talking and the country still voted to leave the EU, so the blunt attempt at censorship of so many of us didn’t work.

      I would suggest that once the emails get out to the other sad lefties, that here is a page where people take notice of downvotes, then we will all be getting -200 per comment. So I would definitely just ignore that number. 🙂 They want to annoy people and silence them. This is what the left wing do because they cannot win arguments. 🙂

      1. I have to click a few times to see the total upvotes, and since I can’t be arsed, I don’t bother looking.

        1. I haven’t noted peoples votes for a while now, but there was a time from the end of October when I did, just to see if there were any patterns to the mass-downvoting. This minor visible downvoting score is different as that is just lonely lefties with no future ahead of them.

          Back in November you had 72,832 and that stayed around the same point until recently. At the moment you are losing 300 an hour. As a comparison Bill Thomas was one of the first 4 that I looked at and he had 152,048 at the end of October. Since then he has lost 77,800 although his numbers are all over the place at the moment +/- 100 each hour.

          Many people are losing them fast now, but I wouldn’t worry about it. My account “Meridith Mckay” was disabled 18 months ago the old-fashioned way with mass “fake spam” reports. So I can’t use this one to comment on Breitbart or anywhere else for example. I just created a new account with a different name so that I could comment on those sites. That one is still going strong. 🙂

          1. I hadn’t checked for a while, but mine are definitely down.
            There have to be some very bored, sad, lonely people out there if they have to spend their lives downvoting comments all day…

          1. Plum-Tart – you had 27,957 on 13/11/19 and you have now joined the ranks of those with 0, which is where all of us who hold “Conservative views” will be because Disqus is as snowflakey as Facebook and Twitter, but with more control over our comments.

            This zero score means nothing here unless you let it get to you. It clearly does not worry you as you see it for the trivial matter that it is. 🙂

          4. Heh heh. I have lost count of the names of those people that I have been speaking to on Disqus, over the past 2 or so years ,who all have zero scores now. Strangely all of them believe in democracy, freedom and leaving the EU. Some people would like to silence the voices of people who hold those ideas.

            You can spot the down-voting losers looking sad in a crowd, because they have just lost a general election massively. This is all that they have to do for the next 5 years.

          6. I don’t really see online things as a “badge of honour” as that is something that tends to be said by those on “the left” just after they have lost an argument with sensible people. This downvoting – it is what it is. 🙂 Those on the left are following a belief system that attacks free speech because it points out how insane their ideology is. They cannot allow real people to make this known.

            My Honour is my own and the actions of a sad momentum troll have nothing to do with that. 🙂

          8. I don’t really see online things as a “badge of honour” as that is something that tends to be said by those on “the left” just after they have lost an argument with sensible people. This downvoting – it is what it is. 🙂 Those on the left are following a belief system that attacks free speech because it points out how insane their ideology is. They cannot allow real people to make this known.

            My Honour is my own and the actions of a sad momentum troll have nothing to do with that. 🙂

          10. Ndvou – If they had our sense of morality, or even basic decency, then they would not be downvoting in this way in the first place. You can see some video’s online of these people in the streets, spitting at veterans in wheelchairs. They take pleasure in trying to make others feel bad, so they won’t stop unless they are ignored.

            I’m not into violence unless it is necessary, but it is pleasant at times in some of those video’s when they pick on the wrong man and the lefty is knocked out with a single punch.

        1. But it’s quite OK for PT to be rude to whomever she pleases?

          And always without censure?

          1. Ok – I’ll delete your F-word if that’s what you want. I seldom delete anybody’s comments now.

        1. Bleausard – He gets -12 for one comment below, which is why the strain might be showing. Grizzly is far better than those people and should let it be water off a duck’s back. When you ignore these people they don’t like it.

        2. Bleausard – He gets -12 for one comment below, which is why the strain might be showing. Grizzly is far better than those people and should let it be water off a duck’s back. When you ignore these people they don’t like it.

      4. That comment is not in your usual style, Grizzly,
        You are generally known for your gentlemanly
        attributes.

        Good afternoon.

          1. You surprise me, Plum.

            If the only comments received here were Grizzly’s then at the least,
            we would be aware of his views!!……..Always straight,… no Shite!!

          2. I don’t know how long comments remain here. His obusive remarks happened a few months back, if you are prepared to scroll down they may still be there.
            It doesn’t bother me I simply blocked him yet he continues his offensive comments according to replies from posters today. Yourself included.

          3. Dear Plum.

            I realise it is no consolation for times past, but do be rest assured…..
            I shall be keeping a close eye on his future comments.

          4. Thanks Garland,
            It doesn’t bother me. However it’s uneccessary. Some posters are upset by discourteous and rude comments and subsequently leave.
            I do hope BT and ehcalmdown return to the fold.

        2. Greetings, Garlands. You know that I don’t bite back until I’m pushed. I’m just sick of the one-law-for-one culture that has become endemic on this forum.

          And I’m with Bill all the way.

  85. Newton Aycliffe Hitachi rail plant to axe 250 jobs

    Up to 250 jobs are set to be axed at a factory making trains in County Durham.
    The Hitachi plant in Newton Aycliffe opened in 2015 and employs about 900 people, according to the union Unite.
    In December it was awarded a £350m contract to assemble 23 125mph intercity trains for Avanti West Coast, but three months earlier lost out on a contract for the Tyne and Wear Metro.
    The firm said a consultation with staff was under way, and it was working with the union and local business groups.

  86. So the bill has passed, will we get to know what is in the small print, will it be down to Burtons building again for a medical for the coming bust up ?
    Do we keep paying without saying, a word in the future ?
    Has the johnson chap really become a spotless political leopard ?
    Have we not already done near four years marking time at the exit door ?

      2. Looking at uptick counts is like looking for grey pubic hairs. You get them anyway, but make yourself depressed by finding them.

      1. Probably recovered from the excesses of New Year and are now back to paid reviewing/downvoting sensible stuff and upvoting paid ads on Amazon.

      1. JD,
        Or go to the other extreme depending on the small print in the exit bill being revealed.
        We can still be up for lashings of treachery tying us to the eu mafia.

        1. The next battle will be stopping the extension period being extended beyond 2020.

          1. JD,
            Then we will be fighting on two fronts because
            the islamic ideology followers are gaining strength as every day passes and more indigenous are going into submissive mode via following the unwritten rulings of
            PC / Appeasement.
            These are, & have shown quite clearly to be,
            policies of the lab/lib/con coalition, never shown on the manifesto lie sheet.

    4. Who is stealing these futures? Can you buy them on ebay?
      My dog would be appreciative of one.

      1. RP,
        Your dog will be in picture form only and a fond memory.
        The sharia law followers don’t like dogs / pigs
        etc,etc.
        Keep up the voting pattern that has got us into our present condition, ( in the deep sh!te)
        as nation,and you will hardly find time for pets because you will be to busy five times a day praying.

  89. M&S sales squeezed as men shun skinny trousers

    M&S get ever more departed for excuses for their poor sales

    M&S said it overestimated demand for tight-fitting men’s clothing in the run-up to Christmas.
    As a result, the High Street retailer said it had ordered more “regular” and “relaxed-fit” clothing for spring.
    M&S boss, Steve Rowe, said “disappointing” issues – such as the surplus of skinny menswear – held the firm back from a stronger performance over Christmas.
    Strong food sales growth was offset by poor takings in other departments.
    Too much food
    Mr Rowe said M&S had issues with “waste and supply chain” in its food department over Christmas.
    The retailer said it ordered too much food in the final two weeks before the big day.
    Meanwhile, an overly complex supply chain meant that food spent more time in the delivery system and less time on shelves.

      1. Didn’t suit me in my yoof either, because I have bandy legs. Bell bottoms were a godsend!

        2. I always had very muscular legs (riding my bike 3 miles uphill to school) & I couldn’t get into drainpipes or jodhpurs.

          2. Same thing with me, only it was tabbing over the Cheviots with the Army Cadets and school that built up my thighs.
            When flares were fashionable I made my only attempt to be “with it” and went to buy a pair.
            Not surprisingly, the only pairs I could get over my thighs were FAR too big round the waste, so I gave up.

  90. A rare glimpse of sun this morning tempted me out for another walk – as I’m fed up with the trails around here (dryish and not too muddy, but a bit boring), I ventured onto a rather pretty path leading down to one of our local rivers. From the top it looked muddy around the stile but then just grass – possibly a bit wet, but that’s what boots are for. Sadly the whole field was a morass but once started… Anyway the walk out was so wet that it washed the mud off the boots, so all was well, and the sun did shine all the way round, often unobscured by clouds!

    1. Yes, walking locally does get a bit boring. That’s why I tried a bicycle to increase my range. But it’s just too heavy up and down the hills round here. Fortunately, the local botanic garden, to which I pay a very good value annual sub, is only a 10minute drive away and always interesting. As well the snowdrops, in vast arrays, there are some camellias and rhodos already out. And the scent from the daphnes in one part is magnificent.

      1. I got myself an electric assist bicycle after using one on Corsica. The road up to the villa was a very steep gradient but the bike had no trouble. I didn’t even break a sweat. They are quite pricey though.

          3. One milestone over Christmas: Youngest bought his first-ever round in the pub! Pleased as punch, so I was!

    1. If I remember correctly from studying History at school the Elizabethans had a very robust approach to dealing with serious miscreants (irrespective of race or religion) if they threatened the stability of the Kingdom.

        1. I think you mean Traitor’s Gait – a condition rendering it impossible to walk upright once hung drawn and quartered….

  93. Another scare story?

    Full article https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2020/01/09/do-have-london-throat-scrapping-speed-bumps-could-help/

    Scrapping speed bumps could help protect city dwellers against ‘London throat’ because braking releases toxic dust which may trigger coughs and colds, scientists have said.

    Urbanites often suffer from intermittent bouts of runny noses and brain fog, which experts have long-suspected are caused by pollution.

    Dubbed ‘London Throat’ this ongoing low-level illness can lead to more serious infections such as pneumonia and bronchitis.

    Now scientists at King’s College London and Imperial College London have found that brake dust – tiny metal particles released when a car brakes – may damage the immune system, preventing cells called macrophages from engulfing bacteria and clearing them away.

    Previously the National Institute of Clinical Excellence (NICE) has suggested that speed bumps should be removed to cut traffic pollution because they force motorists to keep accelerating and decelerating.

    1. “Urbanites often suffer from intermittent bouts of runny noses and brain fog.”

      Brain fog… I needed to look that one up:

      “Brain fog, also commonly known as brain fatigue, can be a mild to severe episode of mental confusion that can strike without warning. When this occurs, it is common to experience a lack of focus, poor memory recall and reduced mental acuity.”

      That is every morning for me after there has been a bit too much imbibing of the wine. Quickly cured by an egg and bacon sandwich in my case. They need to give words to everything these days, just to project the illusion of control and understanding.

    3. What about rail lines, they constantly emit metal particles and there are lots around London.

  94. I’ve not been taking any notice of downvotes etc, but after the fuss yesterday I had a look at my stats.

    Just had another look and my votes have gone down by 1500 or more since yesterday, over 10%.

      2. Ndovu – You were one of the first 8 that I recorded the votes of, to see if there was any pattern to the bot stripping them. You had 51,502 on 23/10/19, and 12,867 now. So that is down 38,635 in 2.5 months. As others have noted, this rate has increased now so there will be a lot of people with “Conservative” views here who will be at zero in the next 2 weeks.

        The fact that this is being done to such pleasant people shows that we must be saying something right. The FEAR of us by the ones that are doing this must be immense… They are not really living at all to act in this way.

        1. At their peak I had about 63,000, but I didn’t notice them dropping till you pointed it out. I now have 13,354 and none of today’s have increased the total.

          1. Just looked at my full profile and it’s 12,696, not 13,354 as showing when I roll over my avatar.

          2. They are dropping fast now for many. Disqus must be in a hurry. I cannot think of any elections coming up, and Disqus are more focused on America than a smallish British channel. So it looks as if it is part of the general worldwide purge to attempt to silence those of us who keep dismantling the left wing activists.

            Poor lambs… They won’t win that way.

          7. 12394 votes right now ! verooooooooooooooooom veroooooooooooooom you are on your way to Club Zero so make sure you are Whitelisted on here as well as anywhere else you post ASAP

        2. Interesting. I’ve just checked mine. Down 13,000 in 24 hours. Someone is taking an interest in me! (For reference, it’s 55,031 as at 19.45 on 9 January 2020)

          1. Iffy – Don’t be offended by it. 🙂 It is just a computer program and someone has added your account name to the list. It does shows that those people who can’t win an argument against a raccoon want to stop you making comments. They think your words are a threat to them. You must be saying something right to have scared them. 🙂

          6. molamola – when your score drops below 0 all of your comments on normal sites will go to “pending” instead of people being able to see them. On large sites they cannot afford to employ someone to do nothing but check these comments to see if they are okay, so you are effectively blocked from leaving any comments. It will not effect you here though. 🙂

          11. Hi MM. Not offended, but it looks like I’m not going to make my 70k target anytime soon.

          13. I never used to have, but I did seem to be doing rather well!

            (And I’ve lost another 26 as we speak!)

          18. I never used to have, but I did seem to be doing rather well!

            (And I’ve lost another 26 as we speak!)

          19. Hi MM. Not offended, but it looks like I’m not going to make my 70k target anytime soon.

          21. I actually agree with this history (although it sounds a bit like a conspiracy theory). Disqus initially marketed their platform as commenting system that would add value to MSM content. They also created the (free, non-MSM) Disqus Channel system not knowing whether or not it would take off. If the non-MSM channel system took off, they could sell adverts.

            Unfortunately for the liberal-minded folks at Disqus SF, the free, non-MSM Disqus Channel system DID take off. People used Disqus to express all sorts of dissatisfaction with the liberal agenda as promulgated by US Democrats and UK Labour. But there was limited opportunity for selling online ads (To wit: if you buy an advert on a platform that bashes Labour, do you run the risk of offending Labour voters–thus decreasing your product sales?).

            Hence the downvote bot. Adverts or not, Disqus founders wanted to be paid for their work, which they were. In December 2017 Zeta Global bought Disqus for $90 Million. Since then, Zeta Global has been trying to figure out how to increase Disqus market-share and revenue. Their answer? IMHO: 1. Kill the non-MSM Disqus Channel system, 2. send those users back to MSM sites that pay Disqus to provide a commenting system, and 3. In order to gain new MSM customers, purge pre-existing users who express political sentiments that contradict the prevailing MSM narrative.

            https://www.forbes.com/sites/roberthof/2017/12/05/zeta-global-makes-its-biggest-buy-yet-social-discussion-platform-disqus/

        3. Interesting. I’ve just checked mine. Down 13,000 in 24 hours. Someone is taking an interest in me! (For reference, it’s 55,031 as at 19.45 on 9 January 2020)

    2. There’s an interesting thread on Discuss Disqus https://disqus.com/home/channel/discussdisqus/discussion/channel-discussdisqus/what_things_affect_up_votes/ that may shed some light on the upvote culling. The most likely answer seems to be that Disqus have changed their voting policy to combat votebots and are removing up/down votes from accounts that have been deleted. Given the number of Disqus accounts, this obviously takes time, which might explain why some posters here are seeing a steady decline in upvotes.

      1. I am banned on there for the last 4 years by the number one Hard Left Troll Mod on Disqus – CaliCheeseSucks . Don’t waste your time on there . For 3 months from April when the losses begun she denied the existence of the up vote losses, called posters conspiracy theorists, closed their pages and deleted many of their posts on other pages plus banned a few of the ‘complainers’, from July she changed her tune after she & other hard lefties got hit by the bot, from then on she is peddling the story that ‘its a known issue and is being dealt with’ which is a damn lie as somebody at Disqus itself is behind the bot program and will keep on running it till tens of thousands of veteran channel posters no longer have any upvotes & their accounts turn Low Rep and are unable to post anywhere they have not been Whitelisted !

        1. That’s it in a snowflake. Or a nutcase. It is just censorship in the end. We should not be too surprised. Using Disqus to comment is like using software written for and modded by the Democrats or the Labour party. It was only a matter of time.

          2. mahata – that is a very recent occurrence compared to those who I was talking to a year ago, they were all Conservatives. The disqus staff are quite capable of throwing some lefties under the bus to hide the fact that they only want to stop those on the right.

            Lets be honest – the chances of someone from the left wing of politics being able to say something online that makes someone want to join them is minimal. They are as mad as a box of frogs. But shutting up people who know the world the way that we all do is very important to them. We talk sense, they talk Unicorn fantasies.

          3. The Bot began operating in April 2019 after Disqus deleted 11 channels in the first 2 weeks of April for so called TOS ( Terms of Service ) violations . Only 5 channels were TOS violators – one was a neonazi channel, 4 were overrun with porn , of the rest 3 were right wing or centre right & 3 were active channels with no owner/mods so some trolls were stalking posters on them knowing there were no mods.
            From Mid April several thousand posters who had posted on those 11 channels started losing lots of up votes & many were at Zero & low rep by the end of May. In May another large group of posters got hit by the bot & by June/July were at Zero up votes & Low Rep – this group also contained a number of lefties . In June another batch of posters got hit by the bot – including me, but at first we were losing only a few hundred upvotes daily until December when the loss rate jumped to 500 – 2000 a day for some posters but then stopped for 2 weeks whilst the folks at Disqus were on Christmas / New Year vacation and since they returned to work I have lost between 4K to 11K a day
            Lastly in July & August & again in October many more posters got hit by the Bot and this time it included many left wingers including many Disqus All Star posters – hard left veteran posters who joined Disqus at the beginning in 2010 /2011 . Many of those hit in the last 3 rounds were wiped clean of upvotes very quickly ( this includes 3 dormant iD’s of mine – unused since the channel closure on Sept.1st )
            Surprisingly my ID hit in June has hung on till now but from last Saturday they seem to be closing in for the kill & I expect to be at Zero by the end of this month if not sooner !

      2. You get an automatic loss when someone deletes their account so I don’t think that’s the reason.

      3. I’m sorry, but that explanation is absolute rubbish – I have been upvoted (not that I actually care) by people who are still active, but I now have no up votes at all which clearly doesn’t square with the “Disqus explanation”. That doesn’t matter here, but it does mean I can’t easily post on other sites, and that is censorship! Incidentally, that thread you link to is closed!

    3. I’ve lost 5,000 overnight.
      At least someone loves my upvotes.
      Sad little people who do that must be very insecure.

        1. I post because I think I can contribute to a discussion.
          Neither upvotes nor downvotes will affect that.
          I will not allow any person or program to affect my comments. If I do they’ve won and I want to deny these censors any satisfaction.

          1. grumpygrey – This is why common sense wins the day in matters such as these. Votes don’t matter, words do.

        2. I admit that I was nearly tempted to ‘downvote’ your recent comment about all those ethnic minority immigrants whose characteristics helped you to decide to relocate to Israel.

          1. When I was a child my family & extended family left South London & relocated to the countryside due to South London being turned into a slum by migrants & violent gangsters , years later as a man my motivation for emigrating to Israel was Zionism & nothing else . Where I lived in the countryside it is still 98% White English, peaceful, solid Tory & Brexit voting and I still have some relatives living there

    4. #me to. I’ve lost all of them, I think – can’t see any upvote total.

      Tant pis as they say.

      1. My father, who spoke fluent French, used to translate that as “My old aunt is having a slash.”

  95. Steel firm Liberty announces hundreds of new job losses in the fragile industry

    Redundancies will take place in South Wales and South Yorkshire Some 355 posts are due to go at the Liberty plant in Newport, South Wales, and its sites in Stocksbridge, Rotherham and Brinsworth, South Yorks.

  96. “The announcement underlines just how miserable the Duchess is and just how unable to cope with her current life in the Royal family. Back in the autumn on their Royal tour of southern Africa, the Duchess told an ITV documentary that she was struggling to “thrive and feel happy”.

    Poor benighted Sparkle. How I feel for her. How lucky to be able to awful to have to decide to up sticks and move to another country while keeping hold of a cottage that really belongs to you and me under dust sheets until staff open it up for a week each year when she and hubby may choose to come back to blighty to keep a non-dom status………. all because life isn’t quite perfect.

    Life’s struggle is to thrive and be happy. It’s what we all do but we don’t all bang on about it.

    1. They were rightly ridiculed for saying how tough life was, using one of the poorest countries in the world for background.

      These two go from bad to worse.

    2. Guess its down the Job Centre next. Qualifications – Princess, not a lot of call for those in Slough. How about a cleaning job? Nope, thought not.

      1. I suspect it may be the recent increases in the minimum wage that finally persuaded them to try independent living….

        1. $13.85 in BC.

          That should go a long way towards buying a house in Vancouver where the average house price is about $1.1 million.

      2. There are always vacancies for maids at Slough Grammar. Harry can tell her all about it.

    3. Oh they will be back more often than that. Canadian healthcare is different to the NHS in one big respect, private healthcare is not permitted! So when the little one has a cough, it is get an appointment with your doctor and wait your turn.

      The only way round this is to go out of province or overseas. So given the choice of flying to the US or a nice private jet to the UK, you might see them quite frequently.

      Naturally rich barstewards can work around the law.

        1. Sounds appalling. So it really is a socialist country, and on the USA’s doorstep… Has Putin asked to install any missiles?

    6. Bloody hell, the tramp marries into the British Royal Family and has the cheek to say she’s not treated right ! I think it’s Harry that wants his head examined.
      Didn’t his mum say to him – “Are you sure she’s good enough for you, Harry ? “

    1. This site can’t be reachedwww.lookatmeeeeeeeeeeeeee.com’s server IP address could not be found.
      Search Google for look meeeeeeeeeeeeee
      ERR_NAME_NOT_RESOLVED

  99. Fish smell syndrome TMAU ‘like living with a death sentence

    A woman who has a syndrome that causes her to smell of rotten fish says it is like “living with a death sentence”.

    Paula Thomas, 45, from Bristol, has trimethylaminuria (TMAU), which prevents the body from breaking down materials found in certain foods.
    Mrs Thomas said she missed school plays to avoid being in crowded places, had been made to get off buses, and felt racially abused because of her smell.
    There is no cure for TMAU but avoiding certain foods may lessen the symptoms.

    Mrs Thomas said the smell was with her every day but on some days or for part of a day the odour could be less intense.

      2. Breaking News

        Harry and Meghan are seeking asylum in the US on the grounds that the UK is to dangerous for them to continue to live there

      1. I wondered if it might be one of those conditions that tends to affect some races more than others but scrolling through the info online, that doesn’t appear to be the case, though it is genetic.

    2. I just posted on there
      Tom Phillips
      1 MIN AGO
      Message Actions
      I truly feel sorry for Canada that the Duke & Duchess of HollyWeird will be setting up home in Canada . You can expect your PM to pander to them & a constant flow of hard left & HollyWeird Z Listers to visit Canada

  102. I like this post from ‘Greta aka Sharon Greenwash’ over on GF:
    ”
    According to the CPS
    Controlling
    behaviour is a range of acts designed to make a person subordinate
    and/or dependent by isolating them from sources of support, exploiting
    their resources and capacities for personal gain, depriving them of the
    means needed for independence, resistance and escape and regulating
    their everyday behaviour

    Friends of harry should phone the cops.

    https://www.cps.gov.uk/legal-guidance/controlling-or-coercive-behaviour-intimate-or-family-relationship

    “

    2. Oh Yea Oh Yea today we had another stabbing. This time it was the town crier so we now have a vacancy for another one. A stab vest will be provided as a part of the uniform

  104. To better enrage with London’s devise communities and to improve social cohesion Major Khan is considering making Londons street signs multi lingual

    4. Crikey. The road signs in Wales are confusing enough. Took me an age to find Cardiff Bay.

      The East End could be renamed ‘Downtown Beirut’ as matters stand. London itself is already known as ‘Shitholistan’.

      1. You can guess that the first language will look like albino spaghetti thrown against a wall.

      1. For real I think. At least they are all members of the unhrc – unlike the UK, USA and Canada who I suppose just pay for it.

        The pres in an Austrian though.

  106. Quickie divorces scrapped in small print of new law meant to make it easier to dissolve marriage

    Currently I think a no fault divorce takes 5 years. The new legislation changes that but has bought in a minimum period of 6 month for all divorces to allow for mediation attempts etc. It seems to be reasonably sensible

    “Quickie divorces” are to be abolished after a new law which states couples must wait at least six months before dissolving their marriage.
    The Government has formally tabled legislation which introduces no-fault divorce for the first time, intended to make it easier for couples trapped in failed relationships.
    But lawyers accused ministers of a “hidden bombshell” by using the new law to impose stricter rules on how long it is necessary to wait before getting divorced.
    Currently a divorce can in theory be granted within six weeks of an application, but once the Divorce, Dissolution and Separation Bill is passed it will take at least 26 weeks.

    1. Maybe the US doesn’t want to expose a well-paid inside **Iranian** source (who doesn’t want to get whacked)?

  108. Question Time BBC1 9 January 2020 10.35

    Fiona Bruce presents an hour of topical debate from Oxford. On the panel: Brandon Lewis MP, minister for security and deputy for EU Exit and No Deal preparation, Conservative; Clive Lewis MP, shadow minister for Sustainable Economics and a candidate for the leadership of the Labour Party, Labour; Max Hastings, author, military historian, former editor-in-chief of the Daily Telegraph and former editor of the Evening Standard; Miatta Fahnbulleh, Chief Executive of the New Economics Foundation; and Anne McElvoy, broadcaster and Senior Editor at The Economist.

    1. Not sure if I can stomach an hour of Fiona…..however the Royals may be in for hard time. sweetie x

  109. Why on earth do slebs like Cowell who are already as rich as Croesus whore themselves out to make tacky ads to earn a few quid more??
    Have they no dignity?

    3. Why do already wealthy movie stars like George Clooney need to make adverts?

  110. The plane that came down …

    “The three known British victims included ……. Mohammad Reza Kadkhoda Zadeh, from near Brighton, who ran a dry
    cleaning shop and just happened to be flying from Teheran to Kiev ……………”

    3. Are there direct flights from Tehran to London?

      With those names they might have been more comfortable with a Ukranian airline than with an airline like Austrian as we would have chosen!

          2. Sarcastic chicken at it’s best.

            Anyhow, it is airline food how could you tell what it is? The last air Canada meal that I had was a delighful (not) helal vegetarian shepherd’s pie. We are using a different airline next month.

  111. QT is back at 22.35

    Summary
    Fiona Bruce presents the topical debate from Oxford. The panellists are Security Minister Brandon Lewis, Shadow Minister for Sustainable Economics Clive Lewis, author and former newspaper editor Max Hastings, Chief Executive of the New Economics Foundation Miatta Fahnbulleh, and broadcaster and journalist Anne McElvoy.

      1. What about her pet dogs?

        Where else in the world can she scuttle and run to .. it seems as if she is an escape merchant.. with an enormous mental problem .

        1. Harry is a good husband. He will go with his wife wherever she wants. Fortunately she preferred Canada to Senegal.**
          **(Bad Joke Warning)

          1. Thought they were going to live in Africa?

            That poor baby will be alienated from ALL of its cousins, uncles and aunts and both grandfathers.

    3. Apparently before meeting Harry she lived in Toronto in an apartment rented by the film studio that employed her for the tv show “Suits”, which was shot there.

    4. Oh blöödy wonderful. I guess that our pretendy PM will greet her with open arms and offer to pay for their security.

      That will go down well, we are into tax return time when we see how much we have to pay.

          2. Young idealistic students and their ilk. Bernie will actually do well in the primaries, but would make a terrible candidate.

    2. Neglecting the “ringer”, you would think the Dems might try a bit harder to find an actual electable candidate. No sign of one on the horizon yet.

      1. It’s between Biden, Sanders and Warren for the nomination.

        I think Sanders will get it and Democratic Party establishment are terrified.

        1. And Trump will get a second term for certain in that case. The Dems just don’t seem to understand that there is a huge difference between what the party activists want and what wins elections. Labour just provided a good demonstration of that phenomenon.

          1. I think Trump will be reelected for sure because the economy is doing well. I believe historically and traditionally Presidents generally get a second term in a healthy economy. Carter lost when the economy was struggling.

          2. Carter lost when the economy was struggling – but most of all he lost because the Pentagon completely effed up the Iranian hostage rescue mission, and poor old Jimmy had to go on TV and say not only did it fail, but failed so badly that servicemen were killed due to planes/helicopters crashing into each other at the landing site. A complete fiasco.

      2. Hi Jack ( no pun intended ) Jeremy Corbyn is available . Seriously though the DNC has gone so far left that its not going to allow a sane middle of the road candidate to get the nomination

        2. Agreed, see below.

          We live in a state that voted for Obama twice and then voted for Trump, after Hilary made one visit and it was a disaster. Then Trump visited, promising to get the coal mines open again. That hasn’t happened at all, in fact the biggest US mining company just went bust, but “Socialism” of any sort just won’t gain traction here – the people are far too independent minded and very wary of anything that might push taxes up.

          There are a few very “liberal” states – most are very middle of the road.

          1. The US West Coast is quite liberal, especially the major cities. But go inland and you’ll find conservatives.

        3. I was thinking the ex-leader of the Tits and Teeth Party, Jo Swinson.

          She at least needs the job. She could drop her strangled Scots-cum-West Country accent and learn American.

          2. Nah. She is even thicker than Rebekah Wrong Daily. That is seriously thick.

            I remarked to my wife earlier today that the Windsor wedding was a foretaste of what was to come. We saw guests including faded pop stars, the strutting popinjay Beckham and his miserable wife, The Cloonies (oh, for a few Cluniac monks) and a ripe assortment of failed showbiz arseholes.

            To cap it all we had a wog priest exclaiming endlessly or as Peddy might remark, a loquacious pastor going on and on and on. It was painful to behold. I felt for the Queen and Prince Philip.

            I would have needed a pee half way through that verbose crap. Even the stars in the audience felt their stomachs rumbling and must have been sorely relieved after the ceremony was finally over.

            Since that episode we have all hoped that the magical couple would have settled down to a life of untold luxury, the protection of Special Branch, the finest medical treatment and sumptuous premises in which to live. But no. Nothing is good enough for these two self absorbed narcissists.

            Jesus wept.

          4. It was excruciating but in a way addictive.

            Edit: unfortunately if you do not watch the ceremony you are unable to make an informative comment about the show. Show it was, with little connection to the solemn vows we otherwise took at our own weddings.

            It was quite simply another celebrity occasion and the worse for that.

  118. HAPPY HOUR – This Happy Breed of Men

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b2e237983b2511d4a017aa0bf24e2b7887d1e783a3d9deda7aa6cb0fe69f1c46.jpg

    I vote Bill Jackson man of the moment for not crapping on about down voting….
    ….and eternal thanks to Geoff for all the pleasure he has enabled us to share with fellow Nottlers.

    We owe it to Geoff who recsued us after the DT blog went tits up and many posters were left homeless.
    It’s time to put our petty squabbles aside and play the game.
    If and when I leave Nottlers I will do so gracefully with thanks and in good heart.

          2. Reasons i upvote.

            1. I read your post.
            2. I agree with your post.
            3. Your post was funny.
            4. Your post about me was offensive but funny.
            5. Your post about me was offensive and badly worded which made you look stupid.

            Help…help. I’m trapped in a cellar and Dolly has the key………….

          3. Quite. I have been upvoting for years. I have never consciously given a downvote. There are a few unfamiliar names on here which might of course simply be a coincidence.

      3. I do not think I have ever seen an upvote from him. His many years working for HMRC have corripted his soul – if he ever even had one to start with.

          1. I don’t think he’s ever told us who he worked for – but he does have an interest in retail business and railways.

          5. mahatma – it’s not personal, they just click on your name and hit the downvote with each account they have open. It is happening to several of us here now. 🙂

            As you know, the more you talk about them the more you encourage them. This is all they have in life and they CRAVE acknowledgement from those of us who have something that matters. It is the closest that they come to having something real in their lives.

          6. It is both personal & random, in that I get down votes from the random Down Voting loons that visit this blog and I get personalized service from 2 groups of psychotic down voting teams on here, one is a NTTL resident team and the other larger & more obsessive psychotic team of malcontents deliberately stalk me from blog to blog. But I am not as blessed as one of my Mods – Doc Farmer , who had at one stage no less than 45 ID’s down voting & stalking him first on channels & now to some degree on my 2 blogs

    2. The only reason BJ doesn’t give a crap about it is because he doesn’t pay attention to anything anyone posts. Replies, upvotes, downvotes…ducks back.

      Leave gracefully LOL…Go and play some more tennis.

    3. There is one shining beacon that stands out from today. All of the visible downvotes that so many of us are getting can be just from 1 or 2 people using 6 or 7 accounts each. Even 1 person switching between 15 of them has been common in the past.

      But all of the many positive comments asking Bill Thomas to stay came from different people with their own accounts. So there is a LOT more goodwill on this channel than there is Labour momentum troll. Add to that all of the life experience that we have, compared to these snowflake children with their “I love Jeremy” t-shirts, then there is nothing to worry about.

    4. I’m not an ex-DT letters person and I literally stumbled on this site a few years ago. It seemed like a good place albeit a bit to the right of my position but I’ve enjoyed every minute. I’ve learned a lot, especially from Rastus, Peddy and the Grizz and I’ve had a lot of laffs from Rik, NtN, Phizee and Fallick Alec. I was amazed to discover that BT was the guy I listened to on the wireless when I was a step up from being a lad and how would I have heard of, yet alone, grown and enjoyed trombetti without BT’s input. In addition, I’ve met Elsie and Anne and very nice people they are. The site is a god send and must be protected from the idiots that want to bring it down. Geoff and the mods do a great job and deserve our support.

    5. I love Cornwall. If ever I returned to live in England I would return to the county where I was brought up.

  122. That is far too many comments from me this evening. The siren call of a glass of wine is drawing me away. As for the downvoters – forget them. They have been doing it across social media for years now and they keep losing elections. They went all out for the last one and have just lost it massively. 🙂 Their results are as accurate as a confused stormtrooper.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/3647a757c16594cdde4f60222289ff40f76b2705b158565acaebe331b1c82365.jpg

    1. Those plastic codpieces must be very constricting if one has an …ahem… arousing experience.

  123. Why Britain needs the Brexit Spartans of the ERG now more than ever

    MADELINE GRANT

    With a battle looming for the soul of the Tory Party, its free-market wing needs a strong voice

    At the end of this month, Britain will leave the EU after nearly four years of anti-democratic sabotage. Fireworks will be launched and long-owned bottles eagerly uncorked. The perennial gaggle of “Stop Brexit” activists outside Parliament may even have to find a new hobby.

    Yet a battle is looming for the soul of the Tory party, and the nature and purpose of our EU departure. Tempting as it may be for Brexiteers, wearied by this exhausting national row, to think “job done”, to do so risks abandoning the free market roots of conservative euroscepticism.

    Mrs Thatcher planted the seed in her famous Bruges speech, three decades ago. A cautious EU supporter at the time, she criticised the centralising, socialist direction of the European Project under Jacques Delors, insisting that “Europe never would have prospered and never will prosper as a narrow-minded, inward-looking club.”

    Her vision was of free enterprise and free trade, cooperation, not integration. “We have not successfully rolled back the frontiers of the state in Britain, only to see them re-imposed at a European level with a European super-state exercising a new dominance from Brussels.”

    In the intervening years, the EU morphed into precisely the parochial organisation she described. Given the choice between open competition and protectionism, EU lawmakers invariably plump for the latter.

    The European Research Group (ERG) of Eurosceptic MPs, founded in the wake of the Maastricht rebellion, was the product of Thatcher’s unheeded warnings. It soon became the go-to destination for opponents of euro-federalism, and led the resistance to Theresa May’s feeble exit deal. Some speculate that with the battle for Brexit apparently over, the ERG should shut up shop. They are wrong.

    We need the ERG more than ever – this time to defend capitalism and free markets as vigorously as they have held successive governments to account on Brexit. Populated by Thatcherite true believers such as Sir John Redwood and Steve Baker, they would be a formidable free market pressure group. The last three years have shown them to be disciplined, influential and media savvy. Hearteningly, scores of new MPs are believed to have joined since last month’s election.

    While Boris Johnson is no Jeremy Corbyn (or Theresa May for that matter), his current instincts lean towards public spending over tax cuts. His weakness for grand projets belies the litany of colossal government infrastructure failures in recent history.

    The Government is clearly willing to shift leftwards when convenient. The PM has already pledged to use the opportunity of Brexit to circumvent EU state aid rules and protect UK firms from competition. It has even ceded to unscientific propaganda and the confected row over “chlorinated chicken” and “hormone-fed beef” by stipulating that neither will be permitted in Brexit Britain.

    Pursuing a triangulating politics, driven by opinion polls and focus groups, would betray the animating principles of the Leave campaign. The Tories also risk falling into the trap of assuming that former Labour areas merely want Labour-style policies. Yet voters are innately less ideological than politicians.

    As Mrs Thatcher proved, most simply want to get on; with more money in their pockets and functioning public services. The post-Brexit battle will be as much over differing ways of achieving this as whether to diverge from or align to EU regulations. Brexit and freedom were always inseparable. It would be a tragedy if free-market solutions were sidelined for political expediency.

    For several years, the ERG’s opponents have branded them “extremists”. The Tottenham MP David Lammy, with characteristic restraint, once described them as “worse than Nazis”. Yet even a few weeks on from the general election, it is clear that blocking Brexit was the truly extreme proposition. Without the ERG (and, pleasingly, without Gina Miller’s legal action obliging Parliament to approve any deal) Britain would have been consigned to perpetual rule-taking under May’s continuity agreement.

    ERG members may have been vindicated, but it is too soon for these “Spartans” to rest on their laurels. By forfeiting the battlefield, they risk winning the war and losing the peace.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/01/09/britain-needs-brexit-spartans-erg-now-ever/

    1. WS,
      We come very close to losing a once decent nation 48 / 52, once decent up until the knife went into M Thatcher.
      Then the lab/lib/con went into coalition overdrive to dismantle the once decent country.
      A great many of the pro eu political
      fraternity are still in-house & in power
      to trust any of them again after decades of treachery would be the work of fools.
      WE see these same fools post 24/6/2016, victory is ours, job done, leave it to the tories, the very same tories that got us into the sh!te & kept us in the sh!te for decades.
      NONE have earned the trust of the decent people.
      We are not clear of the political leeches from both sides of the channel, yet, far from it.

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