Thursday 21 August: The public is sick of the Government’s failure to tackle illegal migration

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its commenting facility (now reinstated, but we prefer ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here.

478 thoughts on “Thursday 21 August: The public is sick of the Government’s failure to tackle illegal migration”

  1. Good morning all. Thanks for today's NoTTLe page, Geoff. A Bogey for today's Wordle.

    Wordle 1,524 5/6

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    1. Good morning Elsie and all
      Wordle 1,524 4/6

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  6. Daily Mail.

    Lucy Connolly to walk FREE: Tory councillor's wife who was jailed last year for 'racist' Tweet during the Southport riots is being released from prison in a matter of hours

          1. Sadly, it was not a guilty verdict.
            She admitted guilt, wrongly in my opinion so it did not go to trial.

      1. Although the least of her worries, don't think LC will thank the Daily Express for stating she is 60. She turned 42 in prison.

  7. 411628+ up ticks

    Morning Each,

    Just to be clear
    Deterrence is the prevention of something, especially war or crime, by having something such as weapons or punishment to use as a threat. ..

    Deterring force is being seen more so as being the peoples remaining option in this war of survival, and be in NO DOUBT we are at war.

    Many of the public are sick of 48% of the people's only to willing to submit via the eu, to a foreign invasion.

    August: The public is sick of the Government’s failure to tackle illegal migration.

    1. 411628+ up ticks,

      O2O,
      Maybe this governing / pharmaceutical cartel could bring out a pill to deter this invasion other than a lead one.

    2. If the public is sick, the public can be put down or put to sleep, so we are made to believe by those with power over us.

      All migration is legal under English Common Law until someone stops it. There is no will to stop it, thanks to the lawyers (and one of them is actually running the country), so it is legal. What is illegal is complaining about it – that is a hate crime punishable by up to 14 years in the company of drug dealers and demoralised screws.

      If we must be at war, then it is a war against our own national institutions fallen into disrepute. It is a bizarre revolution when a powerless king is on our side.

      1. Well, hang on. Entering the country without the proper paperwork is a criminal offence. The criminal gimmigrants are just that.

        There's plenty of law that permits us to remove them. The state simply refuses to apply it. It's a choice. Government simply isn't doing the job it is required to do.

        1. Under English Common Law, failure to enforce the law against an offender renders it legal. What Government is doing is legalising crime.

          Starmer was ten years old when Britain joined the EEC, thereby making continental Napoleonic directive paramount over English Common Law. All through his legal career, he has operated under the presumption against English Common Law, and probably fails to understand it, especially when re-established as a consequence of the 2016 Referendum.

    3. The 48% is 9 years old. It wasn't an accurate indicator of public approval then, and even less so now, for the continuation of immigration at the levels prevailing at that time or today. Nor did it indicate equal approval of both EU and non-EU immigration. For many on both sides of the 52/48 divide, it would have been a decision based on a weighing up of the pros and cons of all aspects of EU membership, not just immigration. Nor does it tell us anything of the views about immigration of those who didn't vote. Using the 52/48 divide as an indicator of the present public mood about any subject is utterly bogus.

      1. 411728+ up ticks,

        S,

        24/6/2016 clearly defined those that wanted
        independence and freedom of spirit and speech from those that were willing to submit to live under foreign incarceration, very little has changed

        The 48% are still very much in treacherous evidence.

        1. The 48% were not of one mind, nor were the 52% of one mind, albeit a quite different one. Why do you not contemplate nuance? Can you not conceive of people who can see pros and cons on both sides of an argument but, on balance, prefer one option just a little more than the other, despite some misgivings. I just do not recognise the lens of absolutism through which you view human behaviour and opinion. Do you truly believe that the entirety of the 48% totally adored all aspects of the UK's EU membership and that the 52%, to a man and woman, were revolted in equal measure by the same thing?

          1. 411628+ up ticks,

            S,
            When push came to shove it boiled down to betwixt right and wrong, and the right came out as being a better option for the United Kingdom.

  8. Good morning all.
    Another cooler day, overcast but dry with a tad over 14½°C on the thermometer.

    1. Fragmented fatality means a body blown to pieces.

      Bariatric fatality is where they try to sew those pieces together and fail.

      What is the government planning?

        2. Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall
          Humpty Dumpty had a great fall
          All the Kings horses and all the King's men
          said "Fuck him he's only an egg"

          Morning Grizz

      2. 411628+ up ticks,

        Morning Pip,

        Whatever these political overseers are planning it will prove to be detrimental to the indigenous peoples good health & well-being.

      1. 411628+ up ticks,

        Morning C1,
        Temporary, mobile, rapid use, as were the first lorry gas chambers before concentration camps were established.

        Yet another coalition fatal endgame cover up.

    3. Well, when Starmfuhrer turns guns on those refusing to comply with his 'financial assets contribution plan' (mass theft of everything you own, compulsory confiscation of assets, all to feed the furnace of state) and his cohabitation and settlement policy (forcing rapists and murderers on you) I imagine people won't be happy and then he'll just shoot them until the unrest is halted then do as he wants anyway.

    4. Governments have contingency plans for all kinds of disasters. It doesn't follow that such disasters are thought imminent or wanted. For example, just because contingency plans exist for an explosion in a nuclear reactor, it doesn't mean that such an event is known to be imminent or even yearned for at the highest levels of government.

      1. 411628+ up ticks,

        Morning S,

        You post of decent wholesome, inclusive of honesty & integrity, patriotic, governments, what we are suffering has more in common with the mafia and murder inc.

        Take the rose tinted labour governing glasses of the end of your snout and face the fact we are being made subject to a dictator
        leadership.

    2. Morning Rik

      What do you think of this ?

      Britain is no longer the country we Americans thought it was
      Perhaps Brits don’t realise how bad UK restrictions on speech have got. Take US criticism on board before Orwell’s warnings come true

      George Orwell, Aldous Huxley, and other writers of the early 20th century predicted a future where the populace was dumbed down, repressed, and fed information by an authoritarian state. In the dystopian futures they imagined in 1984 and Brave New World, independent, critical thinking was banned and speech violators were punished. That sounds like the logical destiny of Britain if it maintains its present course. There is already a semi-official dogma on gender ideology, immigration, and crime which it is costly to challenge. Censorship and group-think get worse if not disrupted.

      Instead of rejecting America’s criticism in high dudgeon, I hope Britain will heed the warning of its Atlantic cousins and return to the people their right to speak their minds. For the land of Magna Carta to slowly sink into repression and state control would be a great injustice to Britain’s present inhabitants, and an insult to our ancestors’ work of centuries.

      Simon Hankinson is a senior research fellow in The Heritage Foundation’s Border Security and Immigration Center and author of “The Ten Woke Commandments (You Must Not Obey)” from Academica Books.
      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/comment/2025/08/20/to-americans-britain-no-longer-free-country-thought/
      Sally pearson
      just now
      Simon Hankinson you’re wrong to say that we Brits don’t realise what is happening. We’re well aware. We’re being muzzled. Our words are being more aggressively policed with every passing day. We’re careful what we say and who we say it to. I for one am grateful to J D Vance for highlighting this.

      Comment by Sebastian Harwood.

      SH

      Sebastian Harwood
      4 min ago
      2TK will not listen to criticism and he has no interest in freedom of speech or democracy. His goal is to turn Britain into a Marxist state. His de facto open door to third world migration is key to the chaos he needs to continue what Blair began with the great march through the institutions. I am considering emigrating to the USA as most of my family are US citizens. America has its problems but at least most Americans will heed to call to fight for freedom when and if the time comes.

      Ironic how Lucy Connolly would have qualified for asylum had she shown up at the US Embassy before her arrest.

      Comment by Christopher Garrod.

      CG

      Christopher Garrod
      5 min ago
      Every generation of electors like to have a dabble with socialism when the Conservative Party has grown stale. I've lived through a lot of them and I must say that this is the worse government since the war and is being run by the unelected unions who have most Labour MPs in their pockets. I'm afraid that the Conservatives have not shown the resilience of their previous incarnations in opposition and do not present as a viable party of government for the first time in a couple of hundred years. The only way to avoid a violent right-wing revolt across all levels of society is to bolster the Reform Party with people of experience and intellectual discipline and turn them from a ginger group into a party of government who will restore our historic freedoms and de-politicise the judiciary.

      1. Sounds like the logical destiny? It's already here! The Hard Left cannot abide dissent, so they destroy the messenger. That's been their MO for centuries.

      2. Many people would prefer the Reform Party – without Farage and Yusuf but with Lowe.

    3. Although car parking space are still designed for a Ford Anglia. I parked next to some colossal tank the other day. It said 'Mini' on the front. It was bigger than a Tiger tank.

        2. GIven the requirement that all new vehicles must have safety features never contemplated by those who designed the original Mini in the late 50s, it would be impossible, today, to sell a new Mini which more closely resembled the beloved car of the 60s. The modern Fiat 500 is also much chunkier than its forebear. Perhaps they ought not to share names with vehicles they pretend to emulate.

        3. I part exchanged my 16/17 year old VW Passat for an 8 year old BMW Mini Cooper, with only 34K on the clock, last week. Having had the original Mini Cooper 30 years ago, I can vouch that the BMW version is much larger but still drives like a go-kart.

          1. I got a lot of useful driving practise in an old Mini and passed my test first time. The gearbox was awful, with no sync on first gear, but plenty of road miles got me through.

  13. SIR – When I was at grammar school in the 1960s, woodwork was obligatory for boys in the first three years (Letters, August 20). I detested it.
    I spent an entire term trying to hand-plane a piece of wood flat, despite there being a perfectly operational power plane sitting in the classroom. At the end of that term my parents queried why they had received a bill for 50p. I had to explain that I had, in fact, planed the wood away to nothing and never got it flat.

    I have not recovered from this experience and to this day cannot do DIY. My wife does occasionally ask: “Do you want to have a go at this or should I get a man in?”

    Ian Wallace
    Whitley Bay, Northumberland

    Let me get this right. You've written a letter to a newspaper to tell the world your lack of 'manhood'. I bet your wife will be happy with that.

    The whole idea of hand-planing a chunk of timber is to teach you basic skills — that is the raison d'être of education — to provide you with life skills. I wasn't the best in my class at planing wood, but I persevered and became more adept at it.

    1. "At me school in Landan.. in the first year of metalwork I made an ashtray, and the next year a pram."
      Micky Flanagan

        1. Not in my mother's house. She still converts into shillings and pence, and some odd measurement of 9 and 128ths. That's ignoring the obsession with Fahrenheit.

          1. Yanks are still transfixed with imperial measurements and Fahrenheit.

            Their avoirdupois weight system is a little awry too. Their 'pint' is short measure: 1lb (16fl oz), not 1¼ lb (20 fl oz) like ours.

      2. Perhaps he wrote 10/- or 10 shillings but someone in the DT office thought it needed translating.

      3. It were the year before, Pet.

        A postman, up in the wilds of the Peak District, visited a remote farm to deliver the mail. He got chatting to the old lass who lived there and asked her what she thought about decimalisation.

        She replied, "I don't worry about it: it'll not catch on around here!"😉

          3. 64,000.
            1 x 3¾d = 3¾d (1)
            2 x 3¾d = 7½d. (2)
            2 x 7½d = 1/3d. (4)
            2 x 1/3d = 2/6d. (8)
            8 x 2/6d = £1. (64)
            1,000 x £1 = £1,000. (64,000) 😊

          4. I’m not good with numbers! My old man likes to play with them and he can ‘see’ them!

        2. In the late 70s/early 80s, a pub in Islington was still pricing its drinks in pre-decimal format, albeit only in multiples of 6d, the smallest amount which had an exact decimal equivalent at that time when the ½p was still in circulation.

          1. It was the King's Head and this adherence to pre-decimal pricing continued for more than two decades, far longer than the brief period I visited the pub. It fronted a theatre, which I never frequented.

            The atmosphere Crawford created in 1970 was intended to be enjoyed by an interesting, cosmopolitan and cultural audience. Crawford disagreed with the introduction of decimal currency; for over twenty years after decimalisation of the pound (1971), the bar continued to show prices and charge for drinks in pre-decimal currency. However, the management later decided to introduce computerised tills, while keeping the antique till as the main focal point in the pub.

            https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Head_Theatre

    3. I couldn't do it. I spent my CDT classes making a multi tool knife jobbie. It was blunt, bent when tried to use it to take bottle lids off and the saw teeth were so huge it didn't cut anything. It was a total waste of the teachers and my time.

      I went to school at a time when our computers were dreadful Nimbus jobbies, using what looked liked taps – BNC connectors. The first time we played Doom over an IPX network I was hooked.

      Different folk have different skills.

      3. BBC Basic here, and I was hooked when I wrote my first script telling it to print a word ten times on the screen and it did…
        We didn't have any actual programs for it apart from what we wrote.

    4. One year I came top in woodwork with a broken arm…..I was the school goalkeeper as well. That's how my arm was broken 🤗

    5. I used to love going to the school work shops and particularly liked working on the lathe and made presentable bowls, three-legged stools and lampstands for Christmas presents for the family.

      I fear I am more screw and glue than dovetail – I am a bodger but what I make does not fall apart.

      "Something worth doing is worth doing badly."

      It is the thing that is worth doing – but it is still worth doing however well one does it.

    6. My worst test results at school were in woodwork and metalwork. I empathise with Ian Wallace.

      1. I would have loved to learn woodwork at school – I had a ball designing and building a wooden tree house in Germany with a (female) friend.

        It was needlework and domestic science for us girls.

      3. My worst results were in English, History and Art.

        I’ve spent the past 58 years in a constant endeavour to improve my capabilities in all three subjects.

    7. We did not have either class at school. Class time was strictly for academics. I learnt my skills the hard way – improving the house we could afford, from basic stuff to installing central heating. These days, I have a lot of tools, ranging from all my car repair stuff to nail guns, table saws, welders, etc. And zero house maintenance bills.

      1. I don’t have a welder (even thought I’m a time-served plater/welder) but I do have a fully equipped large workshop with table saw, band saw and a load of other hand and machine tools.

  14. SIR – Between our garden and the field next door – used by the local riding school for their horses – was a Cornish hedge, generations old, with plenty of juicy blackberries.

    One afternoon, I watched a horse carefully picking and eating them. He rolled back his lips so that he didn’t catch them on a thorn. I have no idea how he came to learn this skill. It certainly worked.

    Sylvia Quixley
    Uxbridge, Buckinghamshire

    The horse "learnt that skill" by a combination of two quite natural concepts: the two "i's" (instinct and intelligence). All animals possess both and that is the reason they are adept at survival. Humans have lost those innate skills, both being replaced by stupidity and gormlessness.

    1. That the commenter doesn't seem to realise this is a bit odd. Next she'll be asking where eyes came from.

    2. “I wish I loved the Human Race;
      I wish I loved its silly face;
      I wish I liked the way it walks;
      I wish I liked the way it talks;
      And when I’m introduced to one,
      I wish I thought “What Jolly Fun!”

      [ Sir Walter Alexander Raleigh]

  16. Cynical Rik fears this comment is bang on………
    The government when suffering a court defeat always state they will appeal or say that they will consider the courts decision and will need time to do so before making a response. We have seen this time and time again.

    However this time they haven’t. They rolled over literally within hours, issuing an urgent call for accommodation in the community. Effectively the court decision has let them off the hook. They can now distribute these people into the communities, blame additional costs on the courts and the far right and rid themselves of the focal points of the attention.

    When you look deeper this is a win for the government really, they have got what they wanted all along. The illegals won’t be going back, more will be coming and these will then be hidden in plain sight throughout communities across the land. Heavy subscribed rental accommodation will be denied to indigenous people as the government can easily outbid private renters. Rents will rise, demands for council housing will rise and the spiral of destruction will pick up apace.

    Personally, I feel we are now in a worse position than before the court decision and the government in a far better position. A perfect example of a Pyrrhic victory IMHO
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/cb5a725739be6878d93567b7a21b80994d1115bfa2f32932c2e687658e68a143.jpg

    1. Then it's 80,000, then 200,000, then 500,000 – this farce must stop, and the gimmigrant be removed, not housed.

    2. 2500 “new homes” are being built at White City and they’re priced beyond the reach of most people who earn a living. I fully expect they’ll be bought up en-masse and filled with invaders.

      1. Ah, but will the location be renamed Black City?

        Edit to add: Good morning Sue & all….

      2. Ah, but will the location be renamed Black City?

        Edit to add: Good morning Sue & all….

    3. They should be housed with people who hold signs and attend protests where they say “refugees welcome”. No ifs or buts. No excuses (i don’t have any room…i rent…)
      End of.

  17. Morning everyone ..

    Blue sky , 15c, slight breeze , and a few clouds.

    Nice Autumnal nip in the early morning air .. the sky was clear last night .. and yes , we watered the garden , again !
    Oh, yes those wretched hydrangeas are so thirsty , as well as the rest of the garden plants.

    I love this DT letter

    Shoplifters thwarted
    SIR – Recent letters (August 20) have discussed the public’s role in deterring and reporting shoplifters.

    One Saturday, with my two young daughters, I went to our local supermarket. While walking around the store, I noticed a woman pushing a young child in a buggy. She was accompanied by another woman, who was surreptitiously placing expensive food items in a shopping bag hanging on the back of the buggy. They also carried a basket that had a few items placed in it.

    In my previous life I used to be a store detective. I approached a manager and told them what I had seen. A little while later, the manager approached me with bottles of red and white wine as a thank you for reporting the women, thus saving the store quite a bit of money.

    The next Monday, when I picked up my youngest from school, her teacher approached and showed me what my daughter had written in response to “what I did at the weekend”.

    It read: “My mummy saw some shoplifters in a shop and they gave her some wine. She said it was very nice.”

    Madeleine Hearne
    Winscombe, Somerset

    1. On the subject of autumnal nips, I noticed several trees, yesterday, already showing autumn colours and dropping leaves. Perhaps it's in anticipation of an early end to summer but I rather suspect it's a response to this year's prolonged drought.

  18. When I read the letters it's full of 'Home office is angry they can't use hotels' and 'Public annoyed at failure to tackle gimmigration' and such.

    It's very confusing. The entire Left wing state has steadfastly forced gimmigration on us. The intent is to force more of it, not to control or reduce it. Big fat state wants this country overrun. They can't use hotels so will now go for crappy HMOs and then force purchase private homes.

    Actually stopping and reversing the invasion is not being considered!

    1. The 'home office' is no longer fit for purpose. It's full of forgien born immigrants who have no respect for our culture or our society in general.

    2. I do wonder how many landlords will take the King's shillling, (2025 version)?
      Only landlords who plan to emigrate, perhaps…

        1. The foreign landlords that I have personally known do stay in the UK, not least to manage their houses. I guess there are some that are abroad though. But it’s hardly doing their investment good in the long term.

  19. Good Morning!

    Dear Readers: Stop Hiding in the Today Page and Come Stir the Pot Where It Counts! Your Magazine Needs You! Today, as change from politics (or is it) we ask you to read the first part John Drewry's superbly written story, Dichotomy , about a futuristic England where a boy from rural Croindone, a market town about ten miles south of Londinios, nips out to play with his mate in Glaschu in wild (and re-wilded) Alba. You don't want to miss this, as the story develops.

    Graham Bedford's well-researched attack on HMRC for the thieving bunch of bandits they are is highly informative, and a book review of KM Breakey's Britain On The Brink , involving a novel attempt at preventing Britain plunging into the precipice we are in today is emotive but very interesting..

    Energy Watch: Over the last 24 hours: Britain's electric power was sourced from Gas, 29.5%; Solar, 5.4%: Wind 27.8%; Imports, 16.4%; Biomass, 7.8%; Nuclear 10.3% and Miscellaneous, 2.9%.

    freespeechbacklash.com

  20. Good Morning!

    Dear Readers: Stop Hiding in the Today Page and Come Stir the Pot Where It Counts! Your Magazine Needs You! Today, as change from politics (or is it) we ask you to read the first part John Drewry's superbly written story, Dichotomy , about a futuristic England where a boy from rural Croindone, a market town about ten miles south of Londinios, nips out to play with his mate in Glaschu in wild (and re-wilded) Alba. You don't want to miss this, as the story develops.

    Graham Bedford's well-researched attack on HMRC for the thieving bunch of bandits they are is highly informative, and a book review of KM Breakey's Britain On The Brink , involving a novel attempt at preventing Britain plunging into the precipice we are in today is emotive but very interesting..

    Energy Watch: Over the last 24 hours: Britain's electric power was sourced from Gas, 29.5%; Solar, 5.4%: Wind 27.8%; Imports, 16.4%; Biomass, 7.8%; Nuclear 10.3% and Miscellaneous, 2.9%.

    freespeechbacklash.com

          2. Brave New World (based on technocratic plans to which Huxley’s brother Julian was privy) was published in 1932.
            Coudenhav-Kalergi formulated his infamous plan for mass migration to Europe to create the mixed race “European of the future” in the 1920s (a form of eugnencs).
            Climate, aliens and plagues were identified about that time as issues that would persuade people to accept world government.
            People think the nazis disappeared in 1945, but those ideas were current in many countries and only Germany was partially cleaned out.
            Propaganda via mass media is as old as mass media itself.
            So, yeah…

  24. Would love it if..

    Lucy Connolly walks free in a matter of hours.. She makes a throat slitting gesture.. and says kill the lot of em.

    1. Precedent suggests that that is an acceptable thing to do.

      But it is probably two tier precedent which would not be evenly applied.

    2. Have to have an election first, so that she could be elected as a Labour councillor. Them's the rules.

  25. Would love it if..

    Lucy Connolly walks free in a matter of hours.. She makes a throat slitting gesture.. and says kill the lot of em.

  26. Morning All 🙂😊
    Grey 15c and still no rain forecast.
    And yes this government are wrecking our long established culture and social structure and now the economy. Get them out and stop the treason.

    1. They are wrecking the social structure, but they are only tinkering at the edges of the economy. This coming financial crisis has been baked into the system since they cut the ties with gold in 1971 (?).
      We've already had two crises and giant waves of money-printing in 2008 and 2019/2020 – they keep getting bigger each time. And a bigger crisis requires a bigger solution, preferably one where they can lead the public to blame anyone except bankers.

    1. Surely more appropriate to reference Milioaf, as every element of the supply chain uses energy, and our energy is the most expensive in the world. All those taxes are passed on.

      That, after all, is the point of the 'climate change' scam: to soak tax.

        1. His moustache certainly needs trimming – it is acting as a brake on the speed of his delivery..

  29. Netanyahu: If terrorists butchered 15,000 in Britain, would Starmer reward them?
    Israeli prime minister accuses UK of rewarding Hamas for October 7 by recognising a Palestinian state
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2025/08/20/netanyahu-terrorists-britain-starmer-israel-hamas-gaza/

    BTL

    Starmer has shown time and time again that the very last thing he cares about is the indigenous British people. His view would be :"Let them be slaughtered, I don't care!"

      1. Then he would endorse the terrorists and set about giving them money and weapons. That's what he's doing with muslim, after all.

    1. Hislop lacks the impartial neutrality to do his job properly – he is no more a satirist than Reeves is an economist.

        1. They did a good job on keeping the Postmasters story in the media but the rest of it is old and stale. Like Hislop.

      2. I subscribed from 1985 to 2010. I got fed up with Hislop's minor boarding school sneering. He hasn't grown up.

  34. Lucy Connolly to walk FREE.

    The biggest own goal of Starmer's regime.
    Mother of three Jailed for a Tweet went round the world and back again.

  35. Lucy Connolly to walk FREE.

    The biggest own goal of Starmer's regime.
    Mother of three Jailed for a Tweet went round the world and back again.

  36. Beebsplaining
    11h
    Now this has been bothering me for quite a while. 2tier Rodney was supposedly and continues to claim to be one of our top legal brains and that he has taken down many unamed behemoths of turpitude, over a long career 🤔

    Why then over the last 12 months has he repeatedly shown

    🤔he can't negotiate
    🤔he can't communicate
    🤔he knows nothing about his brief
    🤔he repeatedly makes false claims or promises
    🤔he has no endearing character
    🤔his oratory is bland, monotonous and robotic
    🤔he is easily shaken and blurts under pressure
    🤔he has a short fuse

    Are his legal claims just more purloined achievements of others and he is just a zero talent blurtocrat🤔

    Time beans were spilled as something is not right here🤔
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6fe338b8a4c18d439a9d3dc8cacdbb7dcd77d5a7560984e9d7273a3773e9276c.png

    Beebsplaining
    5h
    The art of the capitulation 🤔
    Has there ever been, in not just the history of this country, but mankind, a bigger witfuck of a negotiator than the 2tier Rodney🤔

    If he was jack he would not only return without the bovine and no beans, he would have the farm repossessed too🤔 Jesus wept https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/247b566b49cc881873566a77d7cd7269769b4b92c7f137910465b5e050d4d030.png

    1. The suggestion is that he bothered to negotiate for Britain. From the outset, Starmer and the state was determined to give away whatever the hated EU wanted.

      They've always wanted to undo and destroy Brexit.

    2. Who needs a fine legal brain or negotiating skills when you have membership of the Bilderberg Group?

    4. Q. Who permitted him to become a barrister?
      Q. Who permitted him to become Attorney General?
      Q. Who permitted him to become party leader?
      Q. Who permitted him to become prime minister?
      Q. Why, when he was born, didn't his parents keep the baby and throw away the placenta?

      1. The NWO and all the other grubby hate leagues groomed him. Obviously Blair Cameron Johnson etc were never good enough.
        This 'thing' is knowingly doing more damage to the future of our country than all of them put together.

    5. Q. Who permitted him to become a barrister?
      Q. Who permitted him to become Attorney General?
      Q. Who permitted him to become party leader?
      Q. Who permitted him to become prime minister?
      Q. Why, when he was born, didn't his parents keep the baby and throw away the placenta?

  37. Rick B
    1h
    I saw a clip of a Canadian man melting down over what's been done to his country.

    I thought, "And you've let Justin Trudeau just saunter away from it without any punishment."

    Ditto Jacinda Ardern, Angela Merkel, John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Nick Clegg, Theresa May, Boris Johnson, Rishi Sunak and all the other WEF puppets that have sold out the countries they were supposed to be leading to the GloboPeedoSupremacy.

    2. 411628+ up ticks,

      Seconded,

      Morning C1

      Supported all the way, "miranda" more so.

      Tribal voters, party before country, BIG TIME.

  38. It is so cold here, I have had to change from summer clothes (shorts + T-shirt) into winterwear – cords, shirt and pullover.

    That global boiling has a lot to answer for.

    1. Do keep up BT or you will be dragged off for being a climate denier. It's the Hottest summer on record…. apparently

    4. Third day of having to put the lights on inside due to persistent grey cold here. (Irritatingly, can't see to use my living room for painting until an electrician has been, due to last week's impromptu shower.) Still, today appears to be somewhat dryer, and at least it's meant to be winter here.

  39. The realities of European support for Ukraine

    SIR – I sympathise with the Trump administration's frustration over Europe's approach to Ukraine.

    For 80 years after the Second World War, and throughout the Cold War, Europe depended on the United States for its defence. The US has not been able to rely on us, or on the rest of Europe, for decades. There is little sign of change. The British Army is at its lowest manning level in 200 years. We are impotent alone. At the same time, many European countries have based their economies on cheap Russian gas. I feel that Europe has forfeited its right to a meaningful say in the Ukraine peace talks.

    Without a decisive outcome on the battlefield, any peace deal will require some concessions on both sides. Any notion of a return to pre-invasion borders is simply fanciful and could only be achieved by the direct intervention of US forces. Given Europe's track record of throwing away the peace, this is, unsurprisingly, off the table.

    Rather than posturing in Washington, Europe's leaders should be planning for the post-war period. Sir Keir Starmer should lead a Coalition of the Willing for the future – not for events that are currently beyond European control.

    Richard Scott
    Kirkbride, Cumbria
    ________________________________________

    SIR – Amid all the criticism of Donald Trump's attempts to broker peace in Ukraine, I have not seen one suggestion as to how, other than by striking a deal, the war is to be brought to an end. This is because the only alternative to perpetual war is simply unthinkable, namely that the Coalition of the Willing defeats Vladimir Putin militarily and drives Russia out of Ukraine by force.

    Are there any countries in the coalition whose citizens would be prepared to see their troops committed to the meat-grinder that is the Ukraine war? I would guess not. President Trump knows this.

    Patrick Nicholls
    Tenterden, Kent

  41. Best letter today was from the guy knocking his cottage down rather than relet or renovate it – such is the idiocy our current laws. Am vvvv busy today but if anyone else has time to post it, it sums up Liebour’s Britain in a nutshell.

    1. SIR – We owned a small cottage in Scotland which became vacant and in need of renovation. Thanks to the abolition of no-fault evictions and the spiralling cost of repairs, we didn't re-let it. Selling it wasn't an option either as it was in the middle of our farm. While it stood empty, we were hit with double council tax and utility standing charges.

      Eventually we did the only thing that made financial sense: we knocked it down. But not before commissioning not one, but two compulsory bat surveys: one to confirm that there were no bats, and another six months later to confirm that no bats had moved in.

      A sound house was destroyed, and time and money wasted, all because of a tangle of ill-thought-out laws, taxes and environmental rules.

      This is what happens when policy is made without proper regard for consequences. We get more bureaucracy, unsustainable compliance burdens and fewer homes.

      Thomas Smith
      Forfar, Angus

    2. Batty bureaucracy
      SIR – We owned a small cottage in Scotland which became vacant and in need of renovation. Thanks to the abolition of no-fault evictions and the spiralling cost of repairs, we didn’t re-let it. Selling it wasn’t an option either as it was in the middle of our farm. While it stood empty, we were hit with double council tax and utility standing charges.

      Eventually we did the only thing that made financial sense: we knocked it down. But not before commissioning not one, but two compulsory bat surveys: one to confirm that there were no bats, and another six months later to confirm that no bats had moved in.

      A sound house was destroyed, and time and money wasted, all because of a tangle of ill-thought-out laws, taxes and environmental rules.

      This is what happens when policy is made without proper regard for consequences. We get more bureaucracy, unsustainable compliance burdens and fewer homes.

      Thomas Smith
      Forfar, Angus

      2. This is what happens when policy is made without proper regard for consequences by ignoramuses.

      1. More to follow. I doubt Jaguar will survive after their total misread of the market.

  48. Morning, all y'all.
    Been busy until now.
    News just out: Der Spiegel is reporting that it was Ukraine that blew up the Nordstream pipeline back in 22.
    That should prove interesting as it plays out.

    1. Not easy to find the article in Spiegel, though. I'm reading a Norwegian paper. Ukrainian arrested in Italy.

    3. That was in the press months ago. Back when the nutters were accusing the US of doing it.

  49. George Finchley
    1h
    So much for “tackling it.” A record 111,000 asylum claims in Starmer’s first year, up 14%, tells you everything. Almost half will be granted at first decision, many more on appeal, and those refused rarely leave. The backlog means years of free housing, allowances, healthcare and legal aid while cases drag on.
    And when claims are granted? The state still pays. Refugees qualify for Universal Credit (up to £1,200+ a month for a family), full housing benefit/local housing allowance, NHS access for life, and schooling for children. Councils are forced to pick up the housing duty, with the bill hidden across DWP, NHS and local authority budgets rather than the Home Office ledger. That’s why the actual lifetime cost is never shown.

    Bottom line: come to the UK illegally, and it pays. Where else does breaking the law hand you housing, benefits and permanent healthcare? Until Parliament makes illegal entry an automatic bar to settlement and enforces removals, the numbers will only go one way. Contractors profit, councils buckle, taxpayers fund it, and ministers still pretend they’re “smashing gangs.” In this system, you literally cannot lose.

    Foulan
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/87fafe1be3f25d811de10edeacdcfd50f472abcedcbf9f22fd20d64ab52f4d1e.png

  50. From today, I shall be having a break from NoTTL. The daily news is so depressing. So the MR and I will concentrate on the garden.

    Fear not – I shall return. One day.

    6. Gosh; that last line is uncharacteristically optimistic! Who are you, and what have you done with our Bill? 😉

      Enjoy the garden and the cats.

    1. Matthew Stadlen is one of the unwatchables – if he appears on the tv screen I immediately switch to another channel.

      He is irredeemably repulsive.

    2. The article shows how Stadlen qualified his argument. All he was saying is that British people have differences of opinion, in response to a suggestion that a particular opinion was the British one.

  54. When national flags are a warning sign
    Rod Liddle
    23 August 2025

    I don’t quite see the point of flying Union flags in Tower Hamlets, or complaining about it when the council takes them down. This squalid little fiefdom run by the deeply corrupt Lutfur Rahman is not part of the UK: it is a suburb of Sylhet, with all that such a location might entail. This would include the mayor himself, who once rigged the votes and used imams to intimidate voters.

    Of course it is true that London is headed the same way as Tower Hamlets and will get there depressingly soon, an upheaval aided by the self-flagellating liberals who still choose to live in the capital and whose yearning for self-annihilation is close to absolute. The temptation is to write off our first city, and maybe others, too, come to that.

    Tower Hamlets is certainly by no conceivable stretch of the imagination particularly ‘British’. It is, rather, a fly-blown satrapy where many of the locals at best are ignorant of our culture and at worst despise and loathe it. A significant minority of the population can barely speak English (6 per cent) and half of the population are foreign born. Now, if you believe in multiculturalism you will have no problem with that, I suppose – and would probably advance the argument that people from the same ethnic groups tend to band together, although that understanding of human nature would not, of course, extend to white British people. When they express a preference for living among their ‘own kind’, they are told that they are racist scumbags and had better get with the project, sharpish.

    I wonder if it has occurred to any members of our government to ask why this whole Operation Raise the Colours business has taken off and why quite so many people seem to be taking part in it. My suspicion is that while Sir Keir Starmer feigns an affection for the flag of our country and will even wave one about when the England team are playing football, especially if it is the chicks, he almost certainly thinks that people with too fond an affection for the Union Jack and the cross of St George are right-wing racists and entirely deplorable. Filed away in the back of his mind is the notion that it’s probably just those football hoolies again, the ones who rioted last summer. What he is missing, then, is the importance of the current protests – the weight of numbers behind them, the fact that it is not just yer usual suspects, the depth of anger it conceals and the problems which thus lie in store in the future. The UK is quite quickly tipping towards serious civil disorder: in many parts of the country, whitey has had more than enough. A clever government would work out why this might be and do something about it. Unfortunately, we do not have one.

    Brits have never hitherto been disposed towards waving the flag about. It has always been my contention that any country where there are too many national flags on view is feeling very insecure about itself and is headed for trouble. This is broadly the position of the UK right now, perhaps for the first time. And it is not terribly difficult to see how we have been brought to this point. Yes, much of it is down to the sheer weight of numbers of immigrants coming into the country.

    But it is not just the weight of numbers. It is also partly the manner in which many of these incomers have behaved which grates a little. The way in which towns and cities have been overwhelmed, changing entirely the nature of once familiar neighbourhoods. The stoic refusal of many to embrace the culture of the country in which they have made their homes and in many cases the espousal of aggressive and hostile views rooted in an implacable creed which always takes precedence.

    But even this is not the main reason the tension has been simmering both last year and this. More than anything it is a blind fury at the way in which our elected representatives have allowed this to happen – and even welcomed it. And more even than this, the way in which the British seem at every turn to be having their noses rubbed in it.

    The Australian sociologist Karen Stenner, in her book The Authoritarian Dynamic, analysed what it was that made people cease displaying a peaceable nature when faced with large-scale immigration and become inflamed and angry (authoritarian, in her words). She found it was precisely this – when they have their noses rubbed in it. When they perceive that everything is tilted against them. When the entire established order insists that ‘diversity’ is bloody marvellous and we can’t have enough of it and that Britain’s history is steeped in wickedness. That nothing whatsoever beneficial came of colonialism. That black people and other minorities should be hugely over-represented in our films, dramas and adverts on the television and that the rest of us should suck it up without question. That white people are inherently, unavoidably racist and that we should be at the back of the queue for any job we might fancy.

    That if we start to question a possible connection between the religion of Islam and a certain predilection towards deranged homicidal violence we will be guilty of Islamophobia and prosecuted. That if we tweet our anger we will be prosecuted. You can get away with this stuff for just so long – and then even the mildest-mannered will start waving a flag saying, in effect: we’re still here, just.

    *******************************

    Andrew Corpe
    5 hours ago
    I believe Lucy Conolly is being released today after being wrongfully imprisoned for 31 months for an angry tweet she quickly deleted following the savage murder of three little girls by a deranged man from a migrant family. I am sure she has been told not give any interviews or speak out or she will be banged up again. She epitomises the rage that Rod describes and the appalling double standards of this government and the liberal thought police. It will be interesting to see if she speaks out and what happens if she does.

    Shakeyourrattle Andrew Corpe
    4 hours ago
    She was 100% correct to be so furious at the MURDER of 3 innocent children. by an evil Rwandan whose origins were covered up by the police. But we now know neither the police or govs care about the rape or murder of children. I’m still incandescent with rage over the cover ups.

    John Bloom
    5 hours ago edited
    Well, it has taken some doing, I admit. Although I was born and grew up in a clapped out pit village in North East England 70 years ago, I have never liked football, beer drinking or Coronation Street and saw all the chanting and flag waving at football matches (Ing- a- land, Ing-a-land) as low brow and a form of palliative release for something else. Nonetheless, and although I will never join in chanting, this daft government has managed to turn this sane, thoughtful, reserved and studious person into a nationalist. Well done, Sir Starmer and crew. It's not what you wanted but you've done it.

    2. I live in a town never particularly known for overt displays of patriotism and national pride. Yesterday, I spotted three lampposts adorned with the flag of St George.

    3. I have just zapped several holiday and clothing adverts because they were quite openly not interested in my custom.
      Fine; their choice. If I decide to spend that cash, it will be elsewhere.

    4. In the late 80s, my dear old mum got my stepfather to attach a flagpole to the side of the house, running up a Union flag and a St. George's cross at different times. It probably broke planning laws but she didn't give a stuff. It wasn't common then and many people remarked on it, some as though they thought it a bit daring.

      I think it was Mrs. T's Bruges speech that set her off…

      1. Few houses in Sweden do not have a flagpole in the garden or attached to the side of the house. Swedish flags (or 'vimpels': long, thin, triangular flags) adorn flagpoles everywhere you go. Small flags invariably adorn tables at banquets and parties; and large flags are always flown outside houses on birthdays or days of national importance.

      1. Years ago , during Bliar / Brown's reign , this village , well rather the councillors like me and others of a higher echelon , had knowledge about possible terrorist attacks at the the Tankie camps near to us , and also the possibility of our station being attacked by ragheads etc .. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fba19ebbc92dc4de3a2d89ed978c56b16621dd1e7f87943b446838d278ff2c76.jpg
        The Fire brigade visited us with an amazing special kit .. tents and tunnels .. in case of a contaminant released by nasty people , and the order of precedence re being decontaminated by stripping off and being scrubbed down .. we also had to identify vulnerable people in the village and make plans for evacuation process etc .. We were informed where the body bags were , and how many could be accessed … 400 at that particular time in the early 2000's before Brown was booted out ..
        Remember there were some very nasty battles going on in the Middle East ..and the fear was that we would be targeted by terrorists .

        All the flower containers were removed from the station , and soldiers were to use alternative transport to travel unoticed..

        The situation was really dire at that time , because we also had fuel shortages , remember?

        And foot and mouth scares as well .

      1. It's probably already here in 20 or 40' containers dotted round the country.
        45 years since demob and I've never missed my L1A1 than I do now.

    3. The government knows that it gets everything wrong so by planning for this catastrophic event it won’t happen.

    1. Of course he does. He was likely a unionist Labour member. The state won't have their own punished.

    1. He only got a suspended sentence of 1 1/2 years? Switzerland washing its hands of the case?
      That is awful, the victim will be traumatised for life.

  60. Bournemouth: The seaside town 'changed' by immigration – where non-British-born population rose nearly 50%
    For decades, Britain has wrestled with the thorny issue of migration. In recent weeks, Bournemouth – like many other places – have seen these hotels become the focal point for people angry about immigration in the UK.

    Lisa Holland
    Communities correspondent @LisaatSky

    Thursday 21 August 2025 07:01, UK

    https://news.sky.com/story/bournemouth-the-seaside-town-changed-by-immigration-where-non-british-born-population-rose-nearly-50-13414657

      1. Not me. I heard the same in a British town a quarter of a century ago. I assume she's muslim, as it was a muslim who said it to me.

    2. The comment was supposedly made in 2021 but the four month suspension has just ended. The comment may have been made more than 4 years before the suspension began. Did the disciplinary process take perhaps more than 4 years to complete, was it reported more than 4 years after being said or was it a combination of a delay in reporting it and the duration of the disciplinary process which amounted to 4 years or more in total. The 'guilty' party claims to have no recollection of saying what has been attributed to her but, nonetheless, offers an unreserved apology, yet only one person claims to have heard these comments and seen the gesture. Something is amiss here.

    1. I presume it's up on that framework so it can be angled to face the sun. Otherwise might as well install it flush on top of the cabin.

      Don't know much about long boats, but do modern versions have inboard or outboard power?

      1. Mostly inboard Diesel Tractor blocks or if vintage something which powered a searchlight during WWII

        1. Ah! Listers.
          Did you see the pictures of the boat at Froghall Warfe t'other day?
          2 cylinder Gardner sounding very nice!

      2. Mostly inboard Diesel Tractor blocks or if vintage something which powered a searchlight during WWII

  63. We've already noticed that Global Warming had to be changed to Climate Change when it started raining in peculiar places. Now that we have experienced an earlier unexpected cooling as autumn draws closer, even scientists can't explain why the slowing of the arctic meltdown should be a result of continuing to burn fossil fuels:

    Natural climate variation is most likely reason as global heating due to fossil fuel burning has continued

    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/aug/20/slowdown-in-melting-of-arctic-sea-ice-surprises-scientists

    1. When global warming failed the Left needed a new marketing term. 'Climate change' is their catch all now.

      It's just marketing to reinforce the tax scam.

      1. It's common sense – the hotter the earth gets, the more the air can absorb water. This means that there is now far more water up there to come down. What is more, the increase in the Earth's moment of inertia due to the mass of water in the atmosphere slows down the planet's rotation causing the water, when is does rain, to fall somewhere it's not orta. Simples.

        2. I must admit I'm rather surprised that cloud seeding hasn't taken place in the UK. It certainly worked in Dubai in April last year..

    3. It's Global Warming!/Climate Change!!/A CLIMATE EMERGENCY!!!/A CLIMATE CATASTROPHE!!!!/CLIMATE ARMAGEDDON!!!!!/GLOBAL BOILING!!!!!!/CLIMATE COLLAPSE/{insert latest panic & scare mongering catch phrase here}

      1. When it's put like that Bob, it might make people wonder exactly who has been setting all those 'wildfires'.

    4. It was Climate Change at first in the 80s. Then it became Global Warming because Climate Change was not scary enough. Then when the climate did not warm for two decades, it reverted to Climate Change.

  64. 411628+ up ticks,

    I just cannot understand how the English peoples have contained their justified anger for so many a decade, and are still saying "we cannot say that" or "we cannot do that"
    Every day the peoples watch in submissive silence the political reptiles action's as the invasion personnel is brought ashore.
    Dt
    The rapist, paedophiles and terror offender spared prison while Lucy Connolly was jailed
    Former childminder deemed more dangerous to society than those convicted of sexual assault or viewing child abuse images

    1. Labour forced this situation by lying. They knew they had no intention of stopping the invasion. The public were sick of the lies, the deceit, the oppression, the suppression, the rapes, murders, paedophilia.

      More they were sick of government hiding it from them while pouring more of the vermin on us.

      A bad situation was made worse by the putrid two tier system socialists so love. The public finally realised the invasion wasn't going to stop and would, in ever increasing numbers continue.

  65. Been having unexplained pain in one leg for a couple of days – in both the shin area and the thigh bone area. Called the doctor's office at 9:00 am this morning.. Appointment at 1:00 pm today. And everybody slams American healthcare…

    1. Jack
      Pain in both the shin and thigh area could indicate various issues, such as stress fractures, which affect the tibia (shin bone) and femur (thigh bone), or nerve compression/inflammation like sciatica or spinal stenosis, where pain radiates along the nerve from the hip down to the leg. Osteoarthritis in the knee can also cause pain that radiates to the shin and thigh. Less common causes include hip bursitis referring pain to the outer shin or deep vein thrombosis (DVT), which causes pain, swelling, and warmth in the leg, a serious condition requiring immediate medical attention.

      I have nerve compression .. and am waiting for the results of an MRI scan i had 10 days ago .. The MSK unit said they don't have enough staff to read the results , so the delay will be until mid September .

      Our NHS has all the kit but not enough readers !

      1. Thanks Belle,

        I had "consulted" Dr Google and it came up with a similar list. I have a history of minor arthritis in that knee, which has been kept totally under control by taking 1 nsaid pill a day. This latest has no pain in the knee, but pain above and below. Interestingly enough, not much pain when walking, but it hits when i stand still. Sit or lay down and it goes away.

        :I'll see what the doc says. probably next step will be X-rays, but as we have a nearby walk in Xray facility, no issue there. He may just ship me off to a local orthopedist, but we will have to see.

        p.s. no DVT symptoms, as far as I can tell. Certainly no swelling or warmth.

        1. I've had 'discomfort' travelling down my right leg in the last month. Doc has referred me to the stroke clinic!

          1. I have pins and needles in my left leg (the side where I have degeneration in my sacroiliac joint) along with pain down the side of my leg. All they would offer was physio which last time made the problem worse. Einstein was right!

    3. The USA is a land of extreme opposites: unbelievable wealth and abject poverty, beautiful scenery and urban wastelands, the most decent people you could find and those that are truly evil, superb healthcare for some and almost nothing for others. If you or your employers can afford it, the very best of healthcare is available; if you can’t, tough luck.

      1. Mine is covered by Medicare, which is the primary medical insurance for the over 65's. Not free, but heavily subsidised, and like the pensions here, you pay into it it your whole working life.

    1. So let me get this straight, if I serve baked beans to my sons, I can wash up with the electric dishwasher?

        1. They don't work with me.

          Only cabbage had that effect, but I'm never windy since I gave it up.

    2. Or- here's an idea – government could stop buggering about breaking a reliable market with a useless, inefficient, massively expensive subsidy driven unreliable one and just provide the electricity we want, when we wanted it for a vastly lower price and bin the socialist weapon of 'climate change'?

    3. So you benefit if you use the clothes dryer when it is windy enough to hang your washing out on the line. That makes sense!

    4. Can you imagine trying to organise domestic activities and chores based on the vagaries of wind speed? Having lower tariffs at certain times of the day or days of the week is one thing, but tariffs which might change from minute to minute, and which you will have little or, more likely, no knowledge of, borders on madness.

      Use electricity when it’s windy to cut bills, households told. Suppliers are offering lower prices at certain times of the day but consumers are often unaware they can save money, a charity says. Households reluctant to let their energy suppliers vary the price of electricity throughout the day could be paying £375 more a year in bills, a charity has said. Many households were unaware of or uninterested in deals that rewarded them for using electricity at windy and sunny times of day, when it is cheapest to generate, according to a report by the MCS Foundation. It said the shift to clean energy was being impeded by this lack of awareness. Energy suppliers including Octopus and Ovo have started to offer “time-of-use” tariffs that charge customers different rates throughout the day. Octopus’s Agile tariff offers a different rate every 30 minutes, reflecting the half-hourly changes in the rate that the company pays for energy. Households can save money through these tariffs by choosing the cheapest times of day to charge their electric vehicles, do the washing or switch on their heat pumps. Increasingly, electric vehicles and home batteries are programmed to automatically charge at the cheapest times of day.

      https://www.no2nuclearpower.org.uk/news/time-of-use-tariffs-21-8-25/

      Even the automated programmes seem unlikely to be very effective. Imagine trying to charge a car battery when, every 30 minutes, the tariff alters because of changes in wind speed or sunlight and the automated programme ceases charging because the new tariff now exceeds the maximum setting for that particular activity.

      By the way, we've often been advised to operate devices, such as washing machines, at night to take advantage of the lower tariffs that are often offered during the hours of darkness, but without sunlight, won't the tariff increase because of the reduction in the supply of renewable energy. Combine that with a still, clear night when temperatures are at their lowest and it looks like a recipe for higher tariffs, not lower.

      1. Back to’39-45 where the gas was only available at certain times and you had to arrange your domestic chores accordingly. We were at war then. What’s Starmer’s excuse?

      2. Try living in a tower block when economy 7 was being pushed. The flat above even though the floor separation was concrete was a nightmare when the spin cycle began.

        Buy Diesel cars they are cleaner !

        Eat more Veg to stave off cancers. Even though mass produced vegetables are covered in pesticides.

        Do this and that because we have no idea.

        Just do as you are told.

      3. I never, ever recharge laptops or run the tumble drier and washing machines at night or when we are out.

    1. Excellent news at last, not only himself but the whole of the front bench needs clearing as well. And it shouldn't stop until Whitehall is cleared of their associate counterparts.
      Chuck all the illegals out…. all them out. If people haven't applied through the immigration process and just turned up they are here illegally.

  69. Started on the ledge this morning
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/18c5e7ed1090293c387bfb61946cfde20667c335806c761b9af24d25fa31d13a.jpg but quickly realised that the old ex-BR luggage/parcels trolley I've had propped up against the yard wall for years was in the way.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1d1593f5ffdbe25ed6455acc893252025d7b5069fdde053f8002fa9fbbe1d2aa.jpg Too heavy to move by myself and with the coupling on the end was making moving it difficult, I spent the morning taking the aforesaid coupling off. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5034ba7b3bd1f1d10644c434ace1ba9db230ede3330f46f35b6ce49e42553eb4.jpg It was fitted with 2x½" BS bolts, spanners for which I had to search for. This is where it was, but what I didn't notice was a 3rd bolt, about a ¼" BS that I ended up taking my big angle grinder (One of my more useful auction purchases) to. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/78e2b9557c3c89de8e066da23dbbf5c4168f7923d1d2e139a578d66e0725008c.jpg And here is where the coupling is now https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d29f13f210ed5e3b69fa10c859b49b7d16f9df658728b788793a1523c21d43c7.jpg And, once Graduate son's had his meal, it'll be moved to the left, clear of where I'm working https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d29f13f210ed5e3b69fa10c859b49b7d16f9df658728b788793a1523c21d43c7.jpg After getting that lot done, I made dinner.
    A VERY nice Cottage Pie with boiled carrots and steamed white cabbage.

        1. Not this time. I did it in the oven. Even for me it turned out well! Chicken fell apart and was tasty. Now enjoying a glass or three of port.

  70. Took the Grandson to the see the new Superman film today – he loved it (he's 7) – to me it seemed just like one long fight, although the special effects were pretty impressive, as ever! 'er indoors seemed to be on her phone all the way through……

    1. Pangs of jealousy here, GGG.
      Would love a grandchild to take to the cinema… but no potential daughters-in-law on the horizon, currently.

      1. I guess we always yearn for other things Oberst, I'd like another grandchild but I dont think that's going to happen…..

  71. Wordle No. 1,524 3/6

    ⬜⬜⬜⬜🟨
    ⬜🟨⬜⬜🟨
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    Wordle 21 Aug 2025

    Eulogise Birdie Three?

    1. Not golfing today so may I proclaim the merits of this humble par.

      Wordle 1,524 4/6

      ⬜⬜🟨⬜🟨
      ⬜🟨⬜⬜⬜
      🟨⬜⬜⬜⬜
      🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    2. Well done, #metoo

      I know your starter words so we got it from the same 3 letters – to be honest I couldnt be bothered working out all the options, I just went for first word I came up with!!

      Wordle 1,524 3/6

      🟨⬜⬜🟨⬜
      🟨⬜⬜⬜⬜
      🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    3. Bogey today.

      Wordle 1,524 5/6

      ⬜⬜⬜🟨⬜
      ⬜⬜🟨🟨🟨
      🟨🟨⬜🟩⬜
      🟩🟨⬜🟩⬜
      🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    4. Well done, took me a long time for just par.

      Wordle 1,524 4/6

      ⬜⬜⬜⬜🟨
      🟨⬜⬜🟨🟩
      ⬜🟨⬜🟨🟩
      🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    1. Fingers crossed. I have contacted a fairly local acupuncturist who was recommended. I am seeing him next Tuesday. I’ve given up on the NHS.

      1. My mum used to have acupuncture on the NHS for her arthritis. Her right hip was especially painful and replacement was never offered but she said acupuncture definitely gave her some relief.

    3. Next Tuesday.
      I thought i had an appointment booked for physio tomorrow at 11:30 but I discovered a message on my phone telling me its Tuesday at the same time.
      It's impossible to get hold of anyone on the phone to confirm.
      I'll try again tomorrow at 9 am.

    8. Just seen this, been away and everything online related scr÷w÷d. May not see you again afore 26th but everything crossed inc dog paws x

  73. The Revenue Canada employees union has started a campaign to force the government to reverse recent layoffs in the department. My heart bleeds for them – not.

  74. Evening all. Back from a trip to a local garden. I haven’t seen grass so sere for a long time. Nice and peaceful, though. Almost had it to myself.

    I think the public is sick of Labour’s nastiness and determination to destroy the country. As I came home there was a town house with a St George’s flag in one window and a Union flag in another. Raise the colours!

  75. Point of discussion.

    Those who wish to do away with flags must, by continuance, also wish to do away with borders. After all both concepts are irrebuttably bound together. You cannot have a situation whereby flags are proscribed yet, by the same argument, demand that a country's borders remain intact and inviolate. After all, a flag is a symbol of a protected territorial area.

    Discuss.

    1. We’re stay in Crowthorne while our bungalow is having work carried out. Yesterday as we drove out the were St George’s and Union flags flying from all the lamp posts. Very heartening and heart warming.
      Won’t happen in Woking as they’re all Limp Dumbs.

  76. Home Office appeals for 5,000 homes to house temporarily irregular citizens. any takers?

      1. In exchange for the undying hatred of everyone else in the street, forever?
        Plus HMOs filled with jobless young men are not going to do much for house prices.
        I await the reaction with interest.

          1. I’ve no doubt a few will do it, but the more you look at it, the worse it looks. Most landlords have the greater part of their capital invested in this country. They would have to switch their investments to another country, which they can’t do as long as they’re taking the government’s money. They might find themselves with assets worth a fraction of their previous value by the end of it if the Deagel scenario plays out.
            This is the crunch point at which lots of people (landlords) wake up to the end game because it directly affects them.

    3. Sssserco-umbags Plc will have to up the ante; the firm currently offers about £1,100 per month for properties in the less desirable areas of the UK. Similar properties already rent for £1,200, and no-one should trust the promises of full repairs after 5 or 7 years (but not including coverage of any structural damage).

  77. Tamworth & Wirral Labour-run councils consider legal challenges to asylum hotels.

    LOL. They smell election defeat. What next.. waving an England flag in a Lioness shirt.

    1. I think they have been wrong footed. So many Labour run councils now need to do a balancing act with their '''communitees'''.

      Best of luck to Jess Philips in Birmingham.

      Many of your constituents thought it reasonable behaviour to fly in in microlights with AK47's and slaughter hundreds of young people at an open air concert. A bit like Glastonbury (i imbed a warning).

      Many atrocities were committed.

      What made it an abomination regardless of religion was young women and girls were captured. Tied to trees and gagged. Multiple raped and mutilated. Their breasts cut off and other parts of their bodies mutilated.

      I would like to invite Jeremy Morfey to join us to a Nottler lunch.

      If he can convince me. I will pay.

      1. Gazans, not all members of Hamarse, also tortured and killed Israeli babies and family pets. Satan's disciples.

      2. You have a very big heart, Phiz. Jeremy is so blind to the evil of Hamas/ Philistinia and to his own antisemitism I cannot imagine making a similar offer. Particularly since he is not unintelligent. Why does he not use his great intelligence to see things as they are?

        1. I welcome Jeremy's contributions. They give me a different perspective. I certainly do not consider him to be anti-semitic. The ultra-nationalism of the Netenyahu administration makes me feel quite uncomfortable, and a substantial number of Israeli's feel likewise.

    3. He speaks English well. He also seems to be well informed of the all aspects. Confronting each point with yada yada yada.

      They are all being coached and coached in.

          1. There is no need for a snatch squad to go to high alert. They would just spend their time running around all the time pretending not to notice that she was aiming her cunt at them.

    2. As she must serve the remainder of her 31 month sentence on parole, I expect she will be very wary of making any public comment about her incarceration.

      Given the outcome of similar cases that went to jury trial, only to be peremptorily dismissed by said jurors, whoever advised her to plead guilty, if he/she has any sense of propriety, ought to be feeling rather ashamed of themselves. I rather doubt they do, unfortunately.

    1. There was the suggestion that once AI became sentient it would immediately become insane.

      There is your proof.

  83. Ever since we started hearing about the UK's Chagos gift to Mauritius/China, the granting of planning consent to the new Embassy sited above crucial communications links, etc. etc. I have become convinced that Starmer, Lammy, Hermer, and the rst of them are all in a deal with the Chinese that will be worth £ zillions and will make them heroes of The Peoples' Republic with a tomb in Tianamen Square.

    Tom Sharpe
    David Lammy’s attempt to stop the Royal Navy transiting the Taiwan Strait is a disgrace

    The Foreign Secretary should not accept China’s continuing violation of international law

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/7134b75c0dc98c45

    1. I do not believe that Starmer has ever seen a British asset that he did not want to sell out.

  85. Evening all – had lunch (fish n chips) with one of my old schoolfriends – the other got confused and went home on the bus because she'd left her phone behind.

    1. Was the fish and chips any good?

      My suspicious/cynical mind is thinking………..Was she making a quick exit?

      1. She didn't get that far – we sat and waited for her – J phoned and texted but got no reply, then M phoned later and said she'd gone home.
        The fish & chips was fine.

    1. Quite a few obese people waddling about in Gloucester today – but the biggest one was nearly round – almost as wide as he was high……….

  88. Back from the Doc's. He's pretty sure that there is nothing very wrong, and has me on a raised dose of nsaid's for a week or so to see if that knocks it out. If not, I am to go to an orthopedist for a deeper assessment.

    Need to get a plan together, as we are off to the Outer Banks of North Carolina Sunday week, provided Hurricane Erin did not do too much damage. "We" being me, daughter and SiL, 3 grandkids, their other halves plus the great grand daughter. Daughter rented a 6 bedroom beach house. Should be fun to get the whole tribe together. Treating them all to meals out is going to put a dent in the credit card, though.

    2. I saw an orthopedic surgeon on Tuesday, he checked my wrist confirmed that I had a broken bone and then announced the grand treatment plan – if it hurts, stop doing it! I did appreciate having the CT scan images explained, they were quite informative.

      For healthcare system comparisons, I saw my GP on July 31st, the scan was on August 8th and when I saw him on the 15th, he referred me to an orthopedic surgeon who I saw on the 19th.

  89. David Lammy's attempt to stop the Royal Navy transiting the Taiwan Strait is a disgrace

    The Foreign Secretary should not accept China's continuing violation of international law

    Tom Sharpe
    21 August 2025, 3:08pm BST

    Freedom of navigation is one of the international principles that keeps our planet running. The sea connects everything, and almost all of our trade comes and goes on it. Freedom of navigation and the United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea (UNCLOS) which defines it, is therefore a fundamental part of that fluid, never-ending organism on which we depend. Deny it, or break it, and our economies are at risk.

    China in particular has long attempted to deny this fundamental principle on which so much depends, and much of the rest of international maritime law as well. Beijing's infamous "Nine Dash Line" claim to own most of the South China Sea was rejected at the Hague, but it nonetheless acts as if the claim were reality. Chinese warships and coastguard vessels harass, ride off, dazzle and irradiate ships of neighbouring countries every day, and were so aggressive in pursuing a Philippine supply ship recently that a Chinese destroyer smashed off the bow of a Chinese coastguard cutter pursuing the same target, killing several sailors. China also persistently acts as though it has some right to forbid foreign warships from going through the Taiwan Strait – another claim with no basis whatsoever in international law.

    Today's British government is normally slavishly adherent to international law, but there are exceptions. Reportedly the Foreign Office, led by David Lammy, is attempting to stop the Royal Navy from detaching a frigate from our Carrier Strike Group – currently in the Pacific – and sending it on a trip which would take it through the Taiwan Strait.

    Planners in the Joint and Maritime Headquarters will be rolling their eyes now and saying something along the lines of, "Didn't we brief this over a year ago, why is it flaring up now?"

    Whenever we have a warship needing to go through the Taiwan Strait to get where it is going, we send it through. Not doing so is simply to accept that China is allowed to violate international law whenever it chooses. We sent HMS Spey, our Pacific show-the-flag patrol ship, through the Strait two months ago. It got China's attention, of course it did, but there was barely a whisper here. That's because it was Navy business-as-usual. But add the Strike Group to the equation and it suddenly becomes interesting to everyone, and quite late in the day it seems.

    So, some perspective. The Taiwan Strait is 70 nautical miles wide at its narrowest point. This is the same as Tower Bridge to Stone Henge. It's not the Suez Canal. It's not even the Dover Strait, which at 21 nautical miles is narrow enough to slightly complicate things – there is no international water in the middle, only British and French territorial waters. The Taiwan Strait is over three times wider and is therefore mostly international waters – the "High Seas" – in the same way the middle of the Atlantic Ocean is. The right to operate ships through there is immutable. And it's busy – 1,200 ships a week transit through it. But all China has to do, it seems, is rattle its sabre and David Lammy would have us running scared.

    Those who are happy to appease China normally now take the conversation in one of two directions: "What if this escalated" and "Why is the Navy even there?" That last one then branches off into "colonialism" or "The Navy should be in the Channel stopping the boats".

    The escalation idea is a red herring. China would gain nothing from sinking a British warship and would cause itself all sorts of trouble. Very likely it would find itself unable to import iron ore from Australia, to name just one likely result, and China really, really needs Australian ore. There will be cross words – there always are – but the spectacle of a British government so frightened of words that it will give up its basic rights is a pathetic one.

    As for the second point – all warships should be back in the UK – hopefully my opening statement on how the whole world is connected by sea answers that. I might also point out that all the Navy could do in the Channel would be pick up migrants and deliver them to hotels even faster than the Border Force and the RNLI are already doing.

    Meanwhile in the Taiwan Strait, China's strategy is clear – to normalise its illegal claims. Any time a warship abandons plans to run through the Strait, that is a step to the world where indeed, China owns that piece of international water. It seems to me that the way to absolutely guarantee trouble in the long run is to give in to their demands.

    We should also note that this is not an American-style "Freedom of Navigation Operation", a FONOP carried out for no other reason than to prove they can. HMS Richmond won't depart from the task group and dash through the Strait, flags flying, guns trained, and then rejoin. She'll be detached for a decent period of time and have sound operational and defence diplomacy reasons for taking this route. In other words, it's not an operation at all, it's just being "on passage". Sure, they will be closed up in the operations room onboard as they go through, but mainly because if China does come to say hello it will offer tremendous intelligence gathering opportunities.

    To sum up, the whole point of deploying a Strike Group – or any warship – is to communicate resolve and willingness to back the rules-based international order. Sending a ship and then telling it to back off communicates exactly the opposite. This will have been years in the planning, probably since HMS Lancaster did exactly the same four years ago. Showing weakness and backing off in the face of unreasonable demands leads to disaster, as events in Ukraine have shown only too clearly.

    David Lammy and the Foreign Office need to get their heads straight on this.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/21/taiwan-strait-royal-navy-lammy-transit-disgrace-china

    1. David Lammy is a black man posturing as a white man ,he is not a European , Anglo Saxon, Celt , or anything like that ..

      His mindset is narrow , loud and uneducated he is a loud fibber , he is not true , all Labour people are not true or loyal , theirs is a foreign doctrine of control and dislike , and they all have inferiority complexes , they have no breeding or background .. they are straw men and women , scarecrows of the nation.. meaningless shadows that inject fear and loathing into our national fabric .

      1. But, Joan of Arc did win the:
        Nobel Prize for Physics in 2032
        Write Macbeth
        Score the winning goal in the 1966 Cup Final

    2. I was on the first NATO warship, to enter the Black Sea, after 'The Wall' came down, in the 80's

      We had a Soviet warship just astern of us us all the timewe were in the Black Sea

      When we had to do a Test Flight (an airborne checking to see if thingswe had fixed worked correctly) the guns on the escort went up and down, just as the helo did

  90. Lol apparently they are going to fix the rail network. On September 13th!

  92. tote off but this was removed…………….
    Really? Has he just noticed?

    People like him have been a problem for a long time. What on earth does he think he can do?

    Nothing but big mouth to the locals.

    A Labour MP has become the first in his party to call for Britain to withdraw from the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR).

    Message to Grizz… Not all Southerners are soft but i have met quite a few Northerners who are soft in the head,

  93. Oh well I'm orff again, not much done to day I put my back out this morning putting my right sock on. Blame it on the weather, l haven't been wearing socks for a few weeks.
    Good night all Nottlers. 😴

    1. Simple things can cause prolonged discomfort. I clambered onto a chair on Friday last to reach something on top of my wardrobe. I suddenly felt what seemed like a twang and my left leg has been playing me up ever since. There's no rhyme or reason to this other than encroaching old age and sheer bad luck. I put on socks while standing. Do you, or are you usually sitting? I find it easier to reach my feet from a standing stance, raising them to about knee height.

  94. Charles Moore on Saturday:

    Perverted liberalism has led to neo-Marxism, perverted patriotism may yet lead to neo-fascism
    JD Vance, who is in Britain this week, is part of a new wave of Right-wing politics that is flirting with dangerous ideas and people
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/15/perverted-liberalism-has-led-to-neo-marxism-perverted-patri

    One of the names Moore mentioned was James Orr, pictured in the article meeting JD Vance last year. Orr responded thus:

    The British Right should put Kent before Kyiv
    A tension is emerging across the Western world over how to weigh national interest against involvement in faraway conflicts
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/19/british-right-should-put-kent-before-kyiv

    Now the Telegraph's Daniel Johnson has weighed in on Moore's side and against Orr:

    Russia is the new dividing line on Britain’s Right

    A perverted patriotism is a greater threat today than it was during the time of Oswald Mosley

    Daniel Johnson
    21 August 2025, 5:35pm BST

    The Right has a problem with Russia. With his usual succinctness and sagacity, Charles Moore last week gave expression to an anxiety that has been exercising many conservatives: "If perverted liberalism leads to neo-Marxism, could not perverted patriotism lead to neo-fascism?"

    Could Moore be right? Nigel Farage is our equivalent of Oswald Mosley, who also trumpeted his patriotism – though Farage is a more serious and more successful politician than Mosley ever was. That makes him also much more dangerous.

    Farage has a long record of excusing or downplaying the threat posed by Putin. He actually defended the Trump administration's bullying of Zelensky in the Oval Office. We may be sceptical about the "Coalition of the Willing", but at least Nato's European allies are now rearming on an unprecedented scale and presenting Putin with a united front. Would that be happening under PM Farage? Pull the other one, as he might say.

    With JD Vance and his British ally James Orr in mind, Moore mused: "How did the national conservatism of Edmund Burke get mixed up with the Putinist opportunism of Viktor Orban's government in Hungary?"

    In response, Dr Orr protested indignantly that he, Vance and other National Conservatives were in no sense apologists for Putin. Yet he claims that more people are prosecuted for free speech offences in Britain than in Russia. I'm not sure the late Alexei Navalny would agree. Orr champions the "principled realism" of the "New Right", arguing that "the time has come to rally behind politicians who will put Kent before Kyiv".

    Let it first be said that this is an argument among people of goodwill, most of whom probably agree more than they disagree. British conservatives, whether "Old" or "New", are in favour of freedom (notably of speech and of the press), King and country, the rule of law and parliamentary democracy. Religious or not, they cherish the Judaeo-Christian foundations of our society and state.

    Abroad, conservatives tend to support other nations who broadly share our values, particularly if they are forced to defend themselves, at the risk of being accused by Orr of suffering from "Ukraine Brain". Finally, conservatives rely on history as a guide in war and peace, even if (as Orr claims) "Right-wing Zoomers" sneer at them as victims of "World War Two Brain".

    Having played a minor part in the fall of the Berlin Wall, I plead guilty to Second World War, Cold War and Ukraine brain. This is the historical context of today's politics and diplomacy. Any attempt to play down the continuity and relevance of these conflicts is as foolish as it is unconservative. And dressing up an abdication of moral responsibility for Ukraine as "principled realism" strikes me as at best wrong-headed, at worst a betrayal of our island story.

    Alas, that is exactly what is meant by "putting Kent before Kyiv". Defending Kent is not a matter of fortifying the Channel coastline. The latter-day Hitlers and Napoleons threaten our way of life without setting foot here. If we sacrifice other peoples to appease the monstrous ideology propagated by Putin, we will be incapable of defending ourselves. It is actually Kyiv that is defending Kent, not the other way round.

    The late Sir Roger Scruton, the patron saint of the National Conservative movement, understood all this better than his acolytes. Having devoted much of his life to helping dissidents in the former Soviet empire, he knew who the enemy was: the ex-communist secret policeman who is now trying to rebuild that empire.

    But Scruton's political romanticism has been co-opted by Putin's chief ally in Europe, Viktor Orban. His goulash authoritarianism has helped to sanitise Putin's dictatorship – a soft cop, hard cop routine. The nationalist Right in Europe and the Maga Right in America have danced to their tune, seeking to diminish Zelensky's status as the symbolic hero of the free world. They promote their allies with money and influence. Elon Musk's meddling in the German election failed to stop the anti-Russian conservative Friedrich Merz being elected, but the Trump loyalist Kristi Noem helped the hardline nationalist Karol Nawrocki to win the Polish presidency.

    Reform's intellectual praetorian guard is a motley band, ranging from the former academic and social media influencer Matt Goodwin to a new Millbank-based think tank, the Centre for a Better Britain (CBB), chaired by the aforementioned Orr. They have a blueprint: the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025, which has set Trump's agenda. Reform's in-house thinkers hope to play an analogous role in a Faragist future. They will doubtless dismiss any similarities between Trump's ersatz authoritarianism and the Putinist original.

    Yet Russia remains a problem for the Right, not least in Britain. In one corner, Kemi Badenoch and the Conservatives, including most centre-Right intellectuals, remain staunch allies of Ukraine. They reject Putin and all his works. Meanwhile Farage and his camp lean towards authoritarian solutions at home and an isolationist policy abroad.

    My guess is that the British public, given adequate time and a level playing field, will opt for Kemi's inclusive patriotism, which precludes any hint of proto-fascism, rather than Farage's exclusive nationalism, which does not. Will the field actually be level, though?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/21/russia-new-dividing-line-britain-right

    If words could be banned, we should start with 'fascism'. I know many on here argue that it started with socialists but I fear that that is shouting at the wind. The false division between left and right when dealing with totalitarianism – or is that authoritarianism – simply gets in the way of the debate which is 'How do we with deal with Putin'? Suggest that there might be a better way than acting like schoolchildren chanting "Fight! Fight! Fight!" and then charging in like 19th cavalry and you are accused of supporting his 'fascism'. Is China a fascistic state? North Korea? Argue that immigration is a bad thing and someone will shout 'Fascist!' and might want to smash your face in an act of abritary violent justice that is just like, well, fascism.

    Words, words, words. Farage has been a fool over Putin but likening him to Mosley is absurd. I don't have an answer to Ukraine but then nor does Moore, Johnson or any of the other voices in the media. Putin will be gone eventually, at which point things could get better or a lot worse, depending on who replaces him.

    Meanwhile in Kent…

    1. Charles Moore, who I used to adore, is being gradually (but not yet suddenly) subsumed since he got his gong. He writes less and less incisively and more and more in the interests of the blob itself. Yet another eventuality that makes me very sad indeed.

      2. His father was a Liberal; Charles converted from C of E to Roman Catholicism and finally accepted the bribe sinecure known as a life peerage. Sorry, but I am wary of people who switch to another team without compulsion. Mind you, he still writes well.

    2. Putin was groomed as a WEF “young global leader” then turned on them and told the WEF where they could stuff globalism. The globalist plan needs Russia to play ball. It isn’t going to happen. Russia is a strong Christian country.

      Ukraine is a Soviet construct. Historically Sweden, Greece, Turkey, Poland, Lithuania, Austria, Hungary and…Russia, all have a valid claim on parts of it. The Ukrainian language is a dialect of Russian.

      Ukrainian nationalism is a fiction. Russian nationalism is real. English nationalism is real. Yet one is promoted and the other two are vilified. A matter of convenience. Whatever serves the corrupt, money grabbing globalist endgame. It stinks.

      1. I'm sorry, Sue, but this dismissal of Ukrainian nation statehood because of its language's similarities to Russian does not play well with me. Such a stance justifies Hitler's absorption of Austria in 1938 and can be used to justify the division of Belgium between France and the Netherlands, and of Switzerland's division between Germany, France and Italy. It could even be used to reintegrate Norway with Sweden. Where would this leave the micro-states of Luxembourg, Andorra, Liechtenstein, Monaco and San Marino? It also leaves open the enforced integration of Taiwan with China. No, language does not define a sense of nation statehood. Stalin did monstrous things to the people of Ukraine because they claimed to be different to Russians. I would be dismayed if Putin were given a free hand to emulate Stalin.

        1. You’re maybe missing the point. This war is not about Ukrainian nationalism. It’s about subjugating Russia.

    3. Well said. Our politicians are obsessed with Putin, for some reason. I don’t know what i am missing – i just don’t understand why. I have a feeling “Ukraine” is about far more than “Ukraine” and that there is something very murky going on.

      Edit. The thing about read-undery!

  95. Charles Moore on Saturday:

    Perverted liberalism has led to neo-Marxism, perverted patriotism may yet lead to neo-fascism
    JD Vance, who is in Britain this week, is part of a new wave of Right-wing politics that is flirting with dangerous ideas and people
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/15/perverted-liberalism-has-led-to-neo-marxism-perverted-patri

    One of the names Moore mentioned was James Orr, pictured in the article meeting JD Vance last year. Orr responded thus:

    The British Right should put Kent before Kyiv
    A tension is emerging across the Western world over how to weigh national interest against involvement in faraway conflicts
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/19/british-right-should-put-kent-before-kyiv

    Now the Telegraph's Daniel Johnson has weighed in on Moore's side and against Orr:

    Russia is the new dividing line on Britain’s Right

    A perverted patriotism is a greater threat today than it was during the time of Oswald Mosley

    Daniel Johnson
    21 August 2025, 5:35pm BST

    The Right has a problem with Russia. With his usual succinctness and sagacity, Charles Moore last week gave expression to an anxiety that has been exercising many conservatives: "If perverted liberalism leads to neo-Marxism, could not perverted patriotism lead to neo-fascism?"

    Could Moore be right? Nigel Farage is our equivalent of Oswald Mosley, who also trumpeted his patriotism – though Farage is a more serious and more successful politician than Mosley ever was. That makes him also much more dangerous.

    Farage has a long record of excusing or downplaying the threat posed by Putin. He actually defended the Trump administration's bullying of Zelensky in the Oval Office. We may be sceptical about the "Coalition of the Willing", but at least Nato's European allies are now rearming on an unprecedented scale and presenting Putin with a united front. Would that be happening under PM Farage? Pull the other one, as he might say.

    With JD Vance and his British ally James Orr in mind, Moore mused: "How did the national conservatism of Edmund Burke get mixed up with the Putinist opportunism of Viktor Orban's government in Hungary?"

    In response, Dr Orr protested indignantly that he, Vance and other National Conservatives were in no sense apologists for Putin. Yet he claims that more people are prosecuted for free speech offences in Britain than in Russia. I'm not sure the late Alexei Navalny would agree. Orr champions the "principled realism" of the "New Right", arguing that "the time has come to rally behind politicians who will put Kent before Kyiv".

    Let it first be said that this is an argument among people of goodwill, most of whom probably agree more than they disagree. British conservatives, whether "Old" or "New", are in favour of freedom (notably of speech and of the press), King and country, the rule of law and parliamentary democracy. Religious or not, they cherish the Judaeo-Christian foundations of our society and state.

    Abroad, conservatives tend to support other nations who broadly share our values, particularly if they are forced to defend themselves, at the risk of being accused by Orr of suffering from "Ukraine Brain". Finally, conservatives rely on history as a guide in war and peace, even if (as Orr claims) "Right-wing Zoomers" sneer at them as victims of "World War Two Brain".

    Having played a minor part in the fall of the Berlin Wall, I plead guilty to Second World War, Cold War and Ukraine brain. This is the historical context of today's politics and diplomacy. Any attempt to play down the continuity and relevance of these conflicts is as foolish as it is unconservative. And dressing up an abdication of moral responsibility for Ukraine as "principled realism" strikes me as at best wrong-headed, at worst a betrayal of our island story.

    Alas, that is exactly what is meant by "putting Kent before Kyiv". Defending Kent is not a matter of fortifying the Channel coastline. The latter-day Hitlers and Napoleons threaten our way of life without setting foot here. If we sacrifice other peoples to appease the monstrous ideology propagated by Putin, we will be incapable of defending ourselves. It is actually Kyiv that is defending Kent, not the other way round.

    The late Sir Roger Scruton, the patron saint of the National Conservative movement, understood all this better than his acolytes. Having devoted much of his life to helping dissidents in the former Soviet empire, he knew who the enemy was: the ex-communist secret policeman who is now trying to rebuild that empire.

    But Scruton's political romanticism has been co-opted by Putin's chief ally in Europe, Viktor Orban. His goulash authoritarianism has helped to sanitise Putin's dictatorship – a soft cop, hard cop routine. The nationalist Right in Europe and the Maga Right in America have danced to their tune, seeking to diminish Zelensky's status as the symbolic hero of the free world. They promote their allies with money and influence. Elon Musk's meddling in the German election failed to stop the anti-Russian conservative Friedrich Merz being elected, but the Trump loyalist Kristi Noem helped the hardline nationalist Karol Nawrocki to win the Polish presidency.

    Reform's intellectual praetorian guard is a motley band, ranging from the former academic and social media influencer Matt Goodwin to a new Millbank-based think tank, the Centre for a Better Britain (CBB), chaired by the aforementioned Orr. They have a blueprint: the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025, which has set Trump's agenda. Reform's in-house thinkers hope to play an analogous role in a Faragist future. They will doubtless dismiss any similarities between Trump's ersatz authoritarianism and the Putinist original.

    Yet Russia remains a problem for the Right, not least in Britain. In one corner, Kemi Badenoch and the Conservatives, including most centre-Right intellectuals, remain staunch allies of Ukraine. They reject Putin and all his works. Meanwhile Farage and his camp lean towards authoritarian solutions at home and an isolationist policy abroad.

    My guess is that the British public, given adequate time and a level playing field, will opt for Kemi's inclusive patriotism, which precludes any hint of proto-fascism, rather than Farage's exclusive nationalism, which does not. Will the field actually be level, though?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/21/russia-new-dividing-line-britain-right

    If words could be banned, we should start with 'fascism'. I know many on here argue that it started with socialists but I fear that that is shouting at the wind. The false division between left and right when dealing with totalitarianism – or is that authoritarianism – simply gets in the way of the debate which is 'How do we with deal with Putin'? Suggest that there might be a better way of dealing with him than acting like schoolchildren chanting "Fight! Fight! Fight!" and then charging in like 19th cavalry and you are accused of supporting his 'fascism'. Is China a fascistic state? North Korea? Argue that immigration is a bad thing and someone will shout 'Fascist!' and might want to smash your face in an act of abritary violent justice that is just like, well, fascism.

    Words, words, words. Farage has been a fool over Putin but likening him to Mosley is absurd. I don't have an answer to Ukraine but then nor does Moore, Johnson or any of the other voices in the media. Putin will be gone eventually, at which point things could get better or a lot worse, depending on who replaces him.

    Meanwhile in Kent…

  96. Charles Moore on Saturday:

    Perverted liberalism has led to neo-Marxism, perverted patriotism may yet lead to neo-fascism
    JD Vance, who is in Britain this week, is part of a new wave of Right-wing politics that is flirting with dangerous ideas and people
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/15/perverted-liberalism-has-led-to-neo-marxism-perverted-patri

    One of the names Moore mentioned was James Orr, pictured in the article meeting JD Vance last year. Orr responded thus:

    The British Right should put Kent before Kyiv
    A tension is emerging across the Western world over how to weigh national interest against involvement in faraway conflicts
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/19/british-right-should-put-kent-before-kyiv

    Now the Telegraph's Daniel Johnson has weighed in on Moore's side and against Orr:

    Russia is the new dividing line on Britain’s Right

    A perverted patriotism is a greater threat today than it was during the time of Oswald Mosley

    Daniel Johnson
    21 August 2025, 5:35pm BST

    The Right has a problem with Russia. With his usual succinctness and sagacity, Charles Moore last week gave expression to an anxiety that has been exercising many conservatives: "If perverted liberalism leads to neo-Marxism, could not perverted patriotism lead to neo-fascism?"

    Could Moore be right? Nigel Farage is our equivalent of Oswald Mosley, who also trumpeted his patriotism – though Farage is a more serious and more successful politician than Mosley ever was. That makes him also much more dangerous.

    Farage has a long record of excusing or downplaying the threat posed by Putin. He actually defended the Trump administration's bullying of Zelensky in the Oval Office. We may be sceptical about the "Coalition of the Willing", but at least Nato's European allies are now rearming on an unprecedented scale and presenting Putin with a united front. Would that be happening under PM Farage? Pull the other one, as he might say.

    With JD Vance and his British ally James Orr in mind, Moore mused: "How did the national conservatism of Edmund Burke get mixed up with the Putinist opportunism of Viktor Orban's government in Hungary?"

    In response, Dr Orr protested indignantly that he, Vance and other National Conservatives were in no sense apologists for Putin. Yet he claims that more people are prosecuted for free speech offences in Britain than in Russia. I'm not sure the late Alexei Navalny would agree. Orr champions the "principled realism" of the "New Right", arguing that "the time has come to rally behind politicians who will put Kent before Kyiv".

    Let it first be said that this is an argument among people of goodwill, most of whom probably agree more than they disagree. British conservatives, whether "Old" or "New", are in favour of freedom (notably of speech and of the press), King and country, the rule of law and parliamentary democracy. Religious or not, they cherish the Judaeo-Christian foundations of our society and state.

    Abroad, conservatives tend to support other nations who broadly share our values, particularly if they are forced to defend themselves, at the risk of being accused by Orr of suffering from "Ukraine Brain". Finally, conservatives rely on history as a guide in war and peace, even if (as Orr claims) "Right-wing Zoomers" sneer at them as victims of "World War Two Brain".

    Having played a minor part in the fall of the Berlin Wall, I plead guilty to Second World War, Cold War and Ukraine brain. This is the historical context of today's politics and diplomacy. Any attempt to play down the continuity and relevance of these conflicts is as foolish as it is unconservative. And dressing up an abdication of moral responsibility for Ukraine as "principled realism" strikes me as at best wrong-headed, at worst a betrayal of our island story.

    Alas, that is exactly what is meant by "putting Kent before Kyiv". Defending Kent is not a matter of fortifying the Channel coastline. The latter-day Hitlers and Napoleons threaten our way of life without setting foot here. If we sacrifice other peoples to appease the monstrous ideology propagated by Putin, we will be incapable of defending ourselves. It is actually Kyiv that is defending Kent, not the other way round.

    The late Sir Roger Scruton, the patron saint of the National Conservative movement, understood all this better than his acolytes. Having devoted much of his life to helping dissidents in the former Soviet empire, he knew who the enemy was: the ex-communist secret policeman who is now trying to rebuild that empire.

    But Scruton's political romanticism has been co-opted by Putin's chief ally in Europe, Viktor Orban. His goulash authoritarianism has helped to sanitise Putin's dictatorship – a soft cop, hard cop routine. The nationalist Right in Europe and the Maga Right in America have danced to their tune, seeking to diminish Zelensky's status as the symbolic hero of the free world. They promote their allies with money and influence. Elon Musk's meddling in the German election failed to stop the anti-Russian conservative Friedrich Merz being elected, but the Trump loyalist Kristi Noem helped the hardline nationalist Karol Nawrocki to win the Polish presidency.

    Reform's intellectual praetorian guard is a motley band, ranging from the former academic and social media influencer Matt Goodwin to a new Millbank-based think tank, the Centre for a Better Britain (CBB), chaired by the aforementioned Orr. They have a blueprint: the Heritage Foundation's Project 2025, which has set Trump's agenda. Reform's in-house thinkers hope to play an analogous role in a Faragist future. They will doubtless dismiss any similarities between Trump's ersatz authoritarianism and the Putinist original.

    Yet Russia remains a problem for the Right, not least in Britain. In one corner, Kemi Badenoch and the Conservatives, including most centre-Right intellectuals, remain staunch allies of Ukraine. They reject Putin and all his works. Meanwhile Farage and his camp lean towards authoritarian solutions at home and an isolationist policy abroad.

    My guess is that the British public, given adequate time and a level playing field, will opt for Kemi's inclusive patriotism, which precludes any hint of proto-fascism, rather than Farage's exclusive nationalism, which does not. Will the field actually be level, though?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2025/08/21/russia-new-dividing-line-britain-right

    If words could be banned, we should start with 'fascism'. I know many on here argue that it started with socialists but I fear that that is shouting at the wind. The false division between left and right when dealing with totalitarianism – or is that authoritarianism – simply gets in the way of the debate which is 'How do we with deal with Putin'? Suggest that there might be a better way of dealing with him than acting like schoolchildren chanting "Fight! Fight! Fight!" and then charging in like 19th cavalry and you are accused of supporting his 'fascism'. Is China a fascistic state? North Korea? Argue that immigration is a bad thing and someone will shout 'Fascist!' and might want to smash your face in an act of abritary violent justice that is just like, well, fascism.

    Words, words, words. Farage has been a fool over Putin but likening him to Mosley is absurd. I don't have an answer to Ukraine but then nor does Moore, Johnson or any of the other voices in the media. Putin will be gone eventually, at which point things could get better or a lot worse, depending on who replaces him.

    Meanwhile in Kent…

  98. I’ve come a long way
    from ribbons
    on spears
    and garlands
    of feathers

    heading a fanfare
    of tribal others.
    Now nations march
    to the grammar
    of my squares
    and rectangles
    (not to mention
    the odd triangle).
    On grand parades
    you’ll see me displayed
    to the height of my glory.
    The centre of ritual attention. But I stay calm and carry on as any flag
    worth its weight
    in cloth would do

    up a pole
    down a pole
    ever playing
    my starring role
    in the fabric
    of a nation’s unfolding
    of what’s known
    as Independence.

    How I have danced
    in the neutral breeze
    for monarchs overseas
    and seen the colours
    of myself reshuffled
    for the long shackled
    about to step
    into their own stride

    for I too have heard of that feeling called national pride
    from the well-informed lips of the transatlantic winds
    that keep me flapping
    as well as up-to-date
    on history’s shifting weight, those winds that bring me tidings of risings and uprisings,
    of timely severings
    from a mother country’s
    absentee apron strings,
    a people defined
    by Empire’s still visible spectre rebirthing into their own mirror. And so at midnight’s chime I become a banner
    for a milestone beginning
    hoisted skywards
    as a fluttering monument
    to the future.
    And when freedom tolls
    see how I lord it
    up my stately pole
    to trumpet and drum roll

    And in the reckoning hour when old rages grow mute I command
    a multitude’s salute
    and a speechless minute
    falls across the land

    oh what would
    the United Nations
    the Commonwealth
    the Latin American Confederation the Arab Emirates
    (in short the globe)
    do without the likes of me and all my colourful kin?
    We whose silent tongue
    is flaunted in the wind.
    Therefore unravel
    what hidden meaning you will from my flying
    geometry of colours.

    full-mast
    I am an emblem
    of protocol and celebration. Half-mast
    I am the drooping shroud
    of mass lamentation.
    To you who wave me
    from the bonded crowd
    what words can a flag offer beyond the fervour
    of slogans
    that shadow my rainbow?

    Yet since a flag also knows how it feels to be thrown
    to the fury of flames
    (and I shall call no names) on behalf of every flag
    I ask of all who wave me to order: am I the mere cloth you brandish to a marching creed
    basking in the vanquished? Or am I a nation’s handkerchief flown from a flagstaff of justice? As democratic as sun and moon.

    John Agard

  99. If anyone has a shotgun, may I borrow it, to shoot my PC and Tablet, who seem to be at war with each other, when I try to Log-on to nottlers

    1. Yep, our techie stuff plays up , and a while back I lost all my passwords , including my Twitter, now X .. and I had to sign on again but I lost all my contacts and history .

      Our on line frustrations cause an absolute panic .. I just use my laptop , and my phone is just my phone for contacting friends and taking photos, and then I have to clear some of the rubbish out ..

      1. I am taking lessons, for using the phone, seemingly, with it youcan do more than talk to someone

      2. I am taking lessons, for using the phone, seemingly, with it youcan do more than talk to someone

      3. I use a password manager on my laptop so I don't have to remember any of them. Were you never able to retrieve your old X account?

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