Friday 27 March: Online shopping registration is sending customers round in circles

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its comments facility (now reinstated, but not as good as ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be blacklisted.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/03/27/lettersonline-shopping-registration-sending-customers-round/

921 thoughts on “Friday 27 March: Online shopping registration is sending customers round in circles”

        1. They’ve made him way too dark-skinned, and failed to catch his nerdiness. I thought it was Obama.

          3. His arms are too long – he could almost touch his toes without bending over.

          6. Well, Annie, Peddy, et al, I identified Rishi Sunak straight away, but have no idea what the joke is. Can anyone here enlighten me? (Good morning all, btw.)

          7. Via his socialist/Marxist financial ‘rescue’ package, Rishi has stolen Corbyn’s clothes.

  3. Even now, Corbyn’s fans think he’s winning

    The Labour leader’s supporters are so out of touch they believe Covid-19 measures represent a victory for their ideas
    Philip Collins – Thursday March 26 2020, 5.00pm, The Times

    It is a metaphorical gift, as Jeremy Corbyn winds down his leadership of the Labour Party and claims in his final prime minister’s questions that his voice will not be stilled, that Russian frigates should be conducting unusual exercises in the North Sea. Invasion by Russia would just about seal the victory of ideas that Mr Corbyn’s supporters like to claim: the private sector locked down by the state, vast public expenditure, guaranteed incomes tied to need rather than labour, and companies the length and breadth of the land forswearing the motivation of profit. Truly, at the moment of his departure Mr Corbyn has won the argument.

    The Labour leadership contest has been going on so long that, within it, Britain has managed to leave the European Union, the fabric of everyday life has been torn apart by coronavirus, and the Russians are testing our defences. Yet the Labour Party rolls on in its parallel universe and a timeframe of its own devising. Nominations opened on January 7 and the winner will be announced on April 4 by which time, if the tempest of change continues at the same pace, life will have been discovered on Mars and the political reputation of Tony Blair will have been rehabilitated.

    Mr Corbyn leaves his post a two-time election loser who led Labour in 2019 to its worst electoral performance since 1935. He achieved the opposite of all his objectives, at least on the surface. There is, though, a deeper question and it is worth taking seriously the claim that he won the battle of ideas — not so much because of the negligible influence of Mr Corbyn himself but because the extraordinary measures made necessary by Covid-19 raise a historic tendency on the British left to regard itself as the winner, even from the vantage of obvious defeat.

    A matter of months after Labour promised that the state would seize control of large tracts of the economy, the Conservatives have done so. There is evidently an emergency which justifies an extraordinary response. The state needs to replace incomes. It needs to reassure people that, once the virus has peaked, there will be a path back to normality. Though there is a lot of excitable talk about how everything will be different after the virus, most things will in fact be the same, for the good reason that most things are always the same, even after a revolution. In due course, the markets for pet food, shoes, key cutting, confectionery, coffee and cake, pharmaceutical goods, flowers, vinyl, books, pizzas and haircuts will look much as they did, just as most of them were left essentially unchanged by the financial crash of 2008.

    The temptation on the left to ignore this and concentrate on some vast abstract change is always great. Indeed, you could say the Labour Party is the child of such moments. Brought to life by the Great War, which killed off the Liberal Party as a serious force, the Labour Party then came to power and to maturity in the aftermath of the Second World War. Labour’s formative moments were all in the shadow of great events and, ever since, the party has made a memorial of 1945.

    There is no reason, of course, why a party should not celebrate its greatest achievements but the Attlee government from 1945 to 1951 has cast a shadow over Labour — a sentimental party at the best of times — from which successive leaders have struggled to escape.

    The party made two errors of interpretation which are germane now. The first was to forget that command and control was an emergency procedure, not the norm. Harold Wilson, the Labour president of the board of trade from 1947, was charged with reducing price controls, food rationing, the centralised purchase of foodstuffs and raw materials, and the system of licences and permits for industrial goods. Wilson himself, who understood that people wanted to get back to normal as quickly as they could, was pictured tearing up a clothes ration book, an action which annoyed his colleagues in the Labour Party. “Wilson’s bonfire of controls speech annoyed a lot of party opinion,” wrote Denis Healey later.

    Wilson confided to his diary during the ill-starred 1951 general election campaign that the failure to relinquish control quicker and with more relish had hurt Labour badly. The public had the sense that Labour liked the egalitarian and fair-shares nature of rationing rather too much. The emergency made socialism necessary and Labour was slow to let it pass. What is more, there was and is a puritanical streak in the party, mocked to telling effect by Tony Crosland in The Future of Socialism, which disdains consumption and activity without obvious moral purpose. A social lockdown is, among other things, a crackdown on frivolity but there comes a time, after the sacrifice has worked, when people look forward to the release. So it was with rationing in 1951 and so it will be, in time, with the necessary limitations to life we are observing to prevent the spread of the virus.

    The second way in which the Labour Party has memorialised 1945 to its detriment has been to forget that its extensive social spending was itself justified by the experience of war. A nation that has just gone through the terrible sacrifice of the loss of many of its people, in a fight for freedom against a foreign enemy, is in the mood to rebuild. There was a strong sense of moral justice after the war; sacrifice had to be answered by a new dispensation. One of the many reasons that Boris Johnson is struggling to emulate his hero Winston Churchill is that, when the foe is invisible, the “battle” we are waging is a metaphor rather than a war. It does require social spending that would have been inconceivable a month ago but, again, Labour politicians need to be cautious before concluding that this will last for ever just because they want it to.

    The historian John Campbell has written that the dispute between Hugh Gaitskell and Aneurin Bevan was never really about the trifling sums at issue over dental charges. It was an argument about the nature of the new National Health Service but, bigger even than that, teeth were a metaphor for a split in the Labour party between those who wanted to spend heavily and those who felt that sometimes the discipline of the fiscal conservative was a vital corrective.

    There are no fiscal conservatives anywhere in politics now but this argument has not gone away. Labour has lost two elections in which it was considered profligate and, in the midst of a Tory blizzard of spending and extensive state activity, it could fall into the trap of thinking voters have embraced it for good.

    That error could dog the party for a long time, even longer than the duration of its interminable leadership election.

    1. This ought to be publicised a bit more:-
      CORBYN’S 1980S SOCIALIST NEWSPAPER PUBLISHED PRO-PAEDO ARTICLES

      https://i2.wp.com/order-order.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/SCLV-Pro-paedo.jpg?w=540&ssl=1

      Socialist Organiser – a newspaper very closely associated with Jeremy Corbyn – published pro-paedophilia articles in the 1980s, Guido can reveal. At the time of the articles’ publication the early 1980s, Corbyn was one of the most senior members of the Socialist Campaign for a Labour Victory (SCLV). Socialist Organiser was their official newspaper.

      Not only did Corbyn regularly write for the paper, he was also listed as a patron, and in December 1979 was elected to the number one spot on SCLV’s Steering Committee, topping the ballot. Socialist Organiser’s mailing address was the office of Hornsey constituency Labour party, where Corbyn served as chairman…

      In January 1981, Socialist Organiser published an article by Gerry Byrne, entitled ‘Stop the PIE trial’, which called for the trial of four Executive Committee members of the notorious Paedophile Information Exchange to be halted. The article described the proceedings as “a show trial, where what matters…is the creation of an atmosphere of hysteria, sensationalism, and a public cry for blood”. Corbyn remained closely associated with the paper for years after…
      https://order-order.com/2019/12/09/corbyns-1980s-socialist-newspaper-published-pro-paedo-articles/

    2. “…life will have been discovered on Mars and the political reputation of Tony Blair will have been rehabilitated.”

      Heh heh, Very good.

    3. “Russians are testing our defences”?
      Why would they bother? They could just access Wikipedia

      1. Russians are testing our defences”
        They’re staring thru bino’s at our sailor to see if he has any rounds for his rifle.

  4. Cave find shows Neanderthals collected seafood, scientists say. 26 march 2020.

    Neanderthals made extensive use of coastal environments, munching on fish, crabs and mussels, researchers have found, in the latest study to reveal similarities between modern humans and our big-browed cousins.

    Morning everyone. I’ve always thought this was pretty obvious. They were hunter gatherers and where better to gather than the ocean? They also had Surfers Ear which implies diving for fish. The Neanderthals were an early example of an advanced species being replaced by more numerous but less able immigrants. It’s a lesson we should learn!

    https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/mar/26/cave-find-shows-neanderthals-collected-seafood-scientists-say

    2. Repeat after me: there is only one race, the human race; apparent differences between ethnicities are either superficial or environmental; the science is settled.

      1. PC Revisionism!

        Neanderthals are an extinct species or subspecies of archaic humans who lived in Eurasia until about 40,000 years ago. They probably went extinct due to competition with or extermination by immigrating modern humans or due to great climatic change, disease, or a combination of these factors.

        Wikipedia.

        1. Well, I read somewhere that traces of Neanderthal DNA could still be found in some people in France. They did to die out as suggested but interbred.

  5. Good morning all.

    A thought which came to me in the night: because of my height, I am sometimes asked by little old ladies & wheelchair pilots in supermarkets to reach goods down from the higher shelves, which is something I’m always willing to do. But in these days of social distancing, how is that supposed to happen?

    1. Good morning, Peddy. You tell them to stand back, reach up for the goods, put it on the floor (or a lower shelf), then walk away.

        1. Use your judgement, and put the item you have reached up for on to a shelf where the person who asked you can easily reach.

      2. Hi Elsie!

        Puede ser una cosa alguna para Usted?

        Having reached down the one item, I usually ask if I can get anything else for them before walking away.

      3. And laugh when they topple out of their wheelchairs.
        We need something to cheer us up in these bleak times.

    2. Good morning Peddy

      How tall are you

      I am 5′ 3″ these days , and I just love it when tall chaps kindly reach stuff from higher shelves for me .. I just need to know why shelves should be so high and out of reach.

        1. When you are perfectly proportioned – like wot Belle and I is – you’d be surprised how many food and cleaning items are placed on shelves above our reach.

          1. I have a small fold-up step in the kitchen, about 4/5″ high which I use to get to high cupboards, change lightbulbs, clean windows etc.

            When I stand on it, it opens a whole new paradigm. Many people are at that height naturally and it is amazing how different your aspect of view is of the world around you.

          2. I notice the change in aspect when I bend to kiss my 5’4” wife. I’m 6’6”. 😂

        1. Ask them to move 6 feet away, get the product down from the shelf, put it on a lower, probably empty shelf, move away and let the person pick it up,
          Quite simple really.

          1. Elsie said the same hours ago – see my response to her.

            Always polite really.

  8. The way over the top activities of Derbyshire Constabulary have made the news headlines. I find their behaviour indefensible, but don’t we have a fellow-Nottler who usually comes to the defence of the boys and girls in blue, and who has a particular knowledge of that police force?

      1. Which is worse – the face or the hairstyle?

        I suppose the poor woman has the face she deserves and about which she can do little but the hair is a disgrace.

        1. I wonder if she’s popping into Boots for ‘product’ to cement her hair into position?
          Or is she nipping to the hairdressers via the back door?

      4. I thought this post was a joke.
        It is a joke, but the joke’s on us.
        Getting the police back from the death grip of Common Purpose is imperative.
        What is it with the police that they can’t operate independently of some buddy club like the masons or CP?

        1. Since watching a policeman lie his head off in the witness box some 30 years ago, I’ve viewed Plod as the enemy and someone to be avoided.
          At least that makes my attitude an international one.

      5. Good morning BoB. Are we even sure it’s a woman? If that hair is either ‘a professional image’ or a non-extreme style, then I’ll colour mine purple.

        1. It’s a woman. It has already been established that she ‘wears comfortable shoes’ and ‘bats for the other side’.

          1. Are you sure you’re not committing a ‘hate crime’ saying that?
            It’s certainly ‘as rough as a butcher’s dog’.

      6. A couple of days ago the Chief Constable of Police Scotland was interviewed about all this. He seemed to relish the powers he would soon have. He was wearing a short sleeved black T-shirt with epaulettes. Looked as ludicrous as it sounds.

      8. I have actually met Grizzly in person, B of B, and he looks nothing like the photo above!

        :-))

      1. Walking a dog in social isolation down a local country lane is far more preferable than walking around on hard pavement surfaces , risky business because everyother dog walker will be doing the same .

        My pair of spaniels are frisky energetic dogs, well trained to the whistle and have so much energy .. Snitching is a new disease .

        1. ‘Morning, Belle

          Curtain-twitching & Snitching obviously spreading faster than the virus in some parts…

          Coronavirus: Exercise rule-breakers spark surge in police calls

          A police force has had a surge in calls from people reporting their neighbours for “going out for a second run”.
          Government lockdown rules allow people to leave their homes to take one form of exercise a day.
          Nick Adderley, from Northamptonshire Police, said the force control room has had “dozens and dozens” of calls about people ignoring the order.
          In the coming days, police will be given the powers to fine anyone found to be flouting the law.
          Mr Adderley told the Local Democracy Reporting Service his officers will issue penalty notices if necessary, but wanted to educate the public first.
          “We are getting calls from people who say ‘I think my neighbour is going out on a second run – I want you to come and arrest them’.
          “We have had dozens and dozens of these calls.”
          How long can I exercise for? And other questions
          Barbecues and crisps – the lockdown rule-breakers
          Coronavirus in England: Day three of lockdown
          The force has also been getting reports from people whose neighbours are gathering in their back gardens, Mr Adderley said.
          “We won’t have police officers crashing through garden fences to check the ID of everyone who is there to see whether they live at the house or whether they should be self-isolating,” he added.
          “We wouldn’t want to discourage people from making us aware, but we have to set expectations. If people think we will be descending on these houses with blue lights, then we won’t.
          “But be under no illusion, we will be using these powers if necessary.”
          Supt Ash Tuckley, who leads the control room, said the force did not “want to discourage people from reporting” but stressed the “need to exercise caution”.
          He said other queries included someone asking if it was illegal not to cough in a tissue, a caller urging police to arrest their neighbour before he drove off, and a man who asked: “My wife doesn’t think her job is essential but I do and she’s working from home. Is there anything I can do?”

          1. “Put that light out!”

            How apt that the German for snitching is anschwärtzen – to blacken.

      2. The Derbyshire video is chilling – fine, the car park should be clear but … “going out of your way for an Instagram snap – not essential” if these people are on their own, in a clear space, in the open air, why shouldn’t they take a photo? How do the police know that the person who is “far from home” doesn’t actually live nearby? Remember the sketch about the constable who arrested someone for “loitering with intent to cross the road”? I wish they were so enthusiastic about rape gangs, burglary, antisocial behaviour etc!

        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BO8EpfyCG2Y&feature=emb_logo

        1. The walkers have driven to the remote area. They could have an accident, a puncture, a breakdown. They could fall when out walking. All low probability, but, not impossible. Assistance for any of the above will divert the already stretched services.

          1. As I said – the car park should be clear, but there are villages just below Curbar – there is no proof that the walkers have driven there – some obviously have but probably not all. While I take your point (and the BMC have made it clear that actual climbing and hill walking should stop), the probability of accident on a wide, well made path (plenty of room to stay 2 metres clear) IS low – probably about the same as falling at home, having an accident while confined with no excuse to avoid DIY, gardening etc!?

    4. I’m sure if drones were deployed, they were painted out in the obligatory rainbow colours.

  9. Good Morning Folks,

    Sunny cold frosty start again
    The planet is definitely cooling under global lockdown

    2. What a horrible thought – can’t you just hear it? When everything starts up again, they will point to the cold spring as “evidence” of our human guilt, which can only be erased with regular sacrifices to the global warming industry.

  10. People demanding increased testing should be aware of this:-

    THE CORONAVIRUS CRISIS
    Rapid tests for coronaviruses purchased in China do not work well
    Microbiology laboratories report that the tests acquired by the Government have a sensitivity of 30% when they should exceed 80%

    The much-announced rapid tests for coronaviruses with which the Government wanted to start testing the broader layers of the population to find out what is the real size of the contagion in Spain do not work well. This has been confirmed by several microbiology laboratories of large hospitals in the analyzes that have been made of the kits recently arrived from China. The results of these preliminary tests are discouraging: “They do not detect the positive cases as expected,” says a source who has participated in the tests and who asks for anonymity.

    The rapid tests, manufactured by the Chinese company Bioeasy, based in Shenzhen, one of the technological poles of the Asian country , have a sensitivity of 30%, when it should be above 80%, these sources indicate. One of the microbiologists who has analyzed the Chinese test assures: “With that value it does not make sense to use these tests.” The conclusion of the experts who have evaluated these detection kits is that they will have to continue using the current test, the PCR. This has been reported to the Carlos III Health Institute, under the Ministry of Health.

    The coronavirus detection tests currently used by Spanish hospital microbiology laboratories are based on a molecular technique called PCR (polymerase chain reaction) that detects the virus’s RNA in an exudate sample nasopharyngeal (a stick is inserted through the nose or through the mouth to collect it). It is a laborious technique, which requires specific equipment (the reactions take place in machines called thermocyclists in real time) and up to four hours until the result is obtained. The badly called rapid tests of Galicia, Andalusia or the one that began this Wednesday the Madrid City Council, in which a sample is taken from the patient without the patient leaving the car, they are fast only because of the way the sample is taken, because the analysis is still PCR in the laboratory.

    https://elpais.com/sociedad/2020-03-25/los-test-rapidos-de-coronavirus-comprados-en-china-no-funcionan.html

    1. Good Lord. Chinese tat that doesn’t work. Who’d ‘a’ thunk it?
      Handy results for Chinese statistics, though.
      Morning, BoB.

  11. Morning, Campers (though not in the Peak District).
    A Tellygraff article. Certainly sums up the feeling in Allan Towers

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/03/26/gotcha-journalism-making-coronavirus-coverage-unbearable/

    “‘Gotcha’ journalism is making coronavirus coverage unbearable

    Hostile commentators are generating more heat than light

    It is becoming a wearingly familiar pattern: Boris Johnson opens another conference by setting out the Herculean efforts being taken to save lives from Covid-19, the eminent experts flanking him are primed to chip in with illuminating background details about what has informed government policy and then the nation’s broadcast political editors get their say.

    And another round of “The Gotchas” begins as they compete to be the one who throws the Government’s strategy for communicating with the British public at this dangerous and profoundly worrying time into the most chaos.

    Holding up the actions of the Government to scrutiny is, of course, the lifeblood of political journalism in a free society.

    But surely there are times when a wider sense of social responsibility should kick in and when the faces we see on our TV news programmes night after night should consider not behaving like would-be prosecuting counsels let loose on a snivelling defendant in the dock?

    On Wednesday the BBC’s Laura Kuenssberg led the way with a “can you really say the Government is coping?” litany of alleged shortcomings. Sky’s Beth Rigby was next out of the blocks, focusing on the shortage of coronavirus testing capacity and the tone was once again set for the whole shebang.

    None of them ever seems to wish to ask about any positive developments, of which there are plenty, including the staggering response to the Government’s request for volunteers, the enormous uplift in the number of ventilators and intensive care bed capacity available to the NHS or the astonishing range of measures being taken to support workers and companies.

    On Wednesday night the BBC’s main ten o’clock bulletin led in on yet more downbeat lines about the shortage of personal protective equipment in the NHS despite the fact that just an hour beforehand new official figures had been published showing that the number of daily deaths was sharply and unexpectedly down on the previous 24 hour period. This was actual breaking news and – although only a snapshot from one day – clearly a positive development. Why wasn’t it the top line? Why did the umpteenth day of tales of woe have to be the way in yet again?

    Channel Four News has been a particular offender on this score, seeking out healthcare professionals day after day who will say on camera that the NHS is woefully under-prepared for the tsunami of death that is about to be unleashed upon it.

    Yet authoritative voices contradicting that view receive far less coverage. On Wednesday, for instance, the eminent Prof Neil Ferguson of Imperial College told the Commons Health Select Committee that he believed the NHS would now cope with the epidemic. I may have blinked and missed it, but I did not see that optimistic line lead any flagship bulletin.

    I write this piece as a former newspaper political editor once immersed in this “Gotcha” culture, including at times of crisis. Indeed, I recall getting a rare one over Alastair Campbell during the 2001 foot and mouth outbreak (which was nothing like as grave a crisis as this one but felt pretty bad at the time).

    Campbell, who was Tony Blair’s official spokesman, had been responding at a lobby briefing to questions about emergency restrictions on tourism, rambling and the like that had been imposed by ministers.

    It went something like this: Would he agree that the outbreak was making many aspects of normal life difficult and putting such a strain on the national and local authorities that discretionary extra strains should be avoided right now? Yes, definitely.

    Would he agree that calling a general election less than four years into a five-year parliamentary term was a discretionary event? Er…er…possibly.

    Therefore wouldn’t the Prime Minister, if he was to behave remotely as responsibly as he was urging others to do, have to postpone the election until the peak of the outbreak had passed? Gotcha!

    In fact the 2001 election, which was pencilled in for early May, did have to be postponed for a month. It made zero difference to the outcome – another Labour landslide. So Campbell had the last laugh.

    The latest polling on how the Government is handling coronavirus seems to suggest that the “Gotcha” approach is proving just as off-beam now. Some 70% of voters say the Government is handling things well and just 27% say badly.

    None of this generation of very capable broadcast political editors should be judged on the questions they pose at a single press conference – that would constitute another form of the “Gotcha” mentality that we would do well to put behind us.

    But I wonder whether each of them might reflect on whether the balance of their coverage has been quite where it should be? Whether the times we are in call for a little more empathy and respect? Whether a question designed to illuminate rather than to harangue might just occasionally be worth a go?”

    1. These journalists have had nearly four years to hone their ‘skills’ in fighting against the will of the people. Despite their best efforts in what they wrote and said, they lost the Brexit war but continue to display their consistency of purpose by now fighting the wrong battle in the war against CV-19.

    2. SIR – It is good to see so many working together for the common good and to hear of the business world mobilising resources to fight this pandemic.

      Contrast this with the politicians who still can’t resist the odd dig, while claiming to support the Government. This is no time for silly point-scoring.

      It was great to see Alan Johnson hit back at Emily Maitlis on Newsnight on Monday, as she tried to drag criticism of the Government out of him.

      R W Cousins
      Beaconsfield, Buckinghamshire

      Mateless is a particularly nasty cow.

      1. I believe this is because Alan Johnson actually has a brain and realises that

        1. He’ll get nothing from the criticism
        2. He’d then be asked what he would do and doesn’t have the foggiest.

        3. It’ll back fire on him in some fashion
        4. — as an outsider – he genuinely believes the current action is the best one.

    3. Apparently Robert Peston’s microphone was muted and he wasn’t able to speak for a few seconds.

      The nation breathed a sigh of relief. Haven’t we suffered enough?

      1. I read Kirkup’s article about libertarianism: https://unherd.com/2020/03/will-coronavirus-kill-off-libertarianism/

        and wondered if any of these people actually understood what both liberal attitudes are (freedom to act) and what libertarianism is – the freedom FROM the actions of others.

        The Left wing commentariat seem to think that the intent of both activities is selfishness and that these are ‘bad’ where socialism – enforcement of community regardless – is ‘good’.

        This shows a fundamental failure in their understanding and world view. Theirs is one of oppression, mine one of freedom. I expect a higher standard of myself and others (far higher than is usually experienced) such as this social distancing and responsible shopping whereas they seek to enforce how i will behave through the state machine denying my right to independent thought.

        It is precisely that denial that has created the infantilised society we now have – one that strips all the loo roll from a shop or refuses to not gather in groups.

        If people won’t treat others are their own personal pantheon then they cannot be part of that society and should be expelled from it. Does that create an underclass? Too damned right. Trust and citizenship is earned, not bestowed.

    5. Much like the residual feeling of ill will towards our European “friends” after their behaviour of the Brexit vote, the MSM could suffer the same.
      Quite how the BBC could go any lower in my estimations of them is another matter though.
      Manners, good morning to you.

    6. Why wasn’t the sharp drop in deaths headline news? Because it doesn’t suit their agenda.

  12. Good morning all.

    Did anyone join last night’s 8pm show of pointless virtue-signalling, sorry I meant the round of applause for ‘our NHS’ workers?

    Pass the sick bag Marjory!

    1. Morning Kuffar. No. I’m allergic to demonstrations of mass virtue signalling more appropriate to Cultural Revolutions than UK pragmatism!

    2. I dont like these viral campaigns that put down anyone not taking part in whatever cause is being championed. Its not far off the chain letter of our youth which stated that your granny would die if you broke that chain. But worse, my extremely nice neighbour came and knocked on my door to ask whether I would be joining in. She was rather shocked at my response. I have many close family working in the NHS and I appreciate the service when it is needed but its getting a bit out of hand. I am also thankful to my supermarket staff who sit there without protection.

      1. I’d forgotten those. Some pupils got absolutely beside themselves if they ‘broke the chain’.

      2. I thanked the cashiers at the shops I used yesterday, and the great beaming smiles and thanks I got in return showed that the gesture was appreciated.

          1. So do I. And always have a chat; only a sentence or two, but most customers treat them like automata.

          2. #Me too. A few friendly words can work wonders – it’s the same with bus drivers.
            I love to find a rookie on the checkout who forgets to ask the usual questions. I then ask the questions in turn & wait with my hand cupped to my ear for them to repeat, It runs like this…
            Q, Do you have a car-park ticket?
            Rookie repeats.
            A. No, I don’t.
            Q. Would you like a coffee?
            Rookie repeats.
            A. No, thank you.
            Q. Would you like the till receipt?
            Rookie repeats.
            A. No, thank you.
            By this time both of us are laughing.

            Recently I had a somewhat sullen, gruff-voiced lad. Much to my surprise he wished me a nice day when the transaction was over.
            I replied, “You too. I can see you’re trying hard to have one.” which elicited a sheepish grin on his part.

          5. As do I, but in this case I referred to their coming in at personal risk to themselves and made the point that it was important as part of the controlled fight against the disease.

          6. Funny Old World
            In the UK I would have thought supermarket check-out workers would be about the highest risk group there is outside medical staff,for several weeks they have handled thousands of items daily that have been handled by their customers whilst being breathed on at close quarters before precautions started to be put in place
            Has there been any analysis of their infection rate,and if not why not??

          7. In my experience, in the UK the typical cashier appears to be in one of the more vulnerable age groups too.

            As you observe, one might have thought it would occur to the PTB that this was a cohort worth testing.

          10. Good morning Peddy. Last week, after queuing for some time outside our nearest (small) branch of Boots, I was able to buy a couple of essentials. When I had finished at the till, I very loudly said, ‘Thank you.’ to the usual sour-faced assistant who never either smiles or responds. She looked rather taken aback.

          11. I have the deep joy of tackling the local Boots pharmacy that processes our GP’s prescriptions.
            If it’s the sour faced jobsworth that I had to deal with a few days back, I think i’ll just quietly go away and die. Thinking about, I’ll collapse noisily at the counter and really give her something to gripe about.

    4. Morning Kuffar. No. I’m allergic to demonstrations of mass virtue signalling more appropriate to Cultural Revolutions than UK pragmatism!

      1. The leader of North Korea would have been so proud…no food now for those who failed to appear.

        ‘Morning, Minty.

    7. Making a religion of the NHS has done nobody any good. If you want to believe in something, the Divine Resurrection comes highly recommended. (Other religions are available.)

      1. 317456+ up ticks,
        Morning Jbf,
        On par with making a religion and attending a service every 5 years as in supporting / voting
        lab/lib/con has done no one of a sane nature any good especially witnessed over the last two decades.

      2. Absolutely. It is this sentimental view of ‘Our NHS’ that protects it from any real reform.

        1. ‘Morning, JK, I think it more than probable it is the Unions that are preventing any reform.

          One of the simplest reforms would be a joined up computer system across the whole of the NHS and across the whole of the UK.

          Done properly with an ‘off the shelf’ ERP system, it could be installed, up and working within 18 months.

          1. The unions are a very big reason why so much of our manufacturing base has disappeared to the Far East.
            Union members were just too much hassle to employ.

        2. Thank goodness I’m not the only one who thinks this! And blue Labour have now started referring to it as “our” NHS – clearly they’ve all had the same memo!

          1. 317456+ up ticks,
            Morning BB2,
            Lest we forget, the lab/lib/con have proven to be a coalition.

    8. The army of ‘carers’, in both care homes and the ‘community’, supermarket staff and food delivery drivers also deserve recognition especially as many (shops & delivery drivers) are apparently meeting with verbal abuse from entitled fools.

    9. Perhaps it could be looked at as an expression of thanks for people who rarely get thanked, are typically out of sight and taken for granted? Like, Sos mentions below.If I actively put myself in the way of a disease that could potentially be fatal, I’d find myself more motivated if some bastard expressed thanks.
      Perhaps the population could just be nicer to each other?

  13. Good morning, Gentlefolk, an oldie bit particularly cogent right now:

    Power cut

    We had a power cut last week and my PC, TV and games console shut down immediately, it was raining- I couldn’t play golf so I talked to my wife for a few hours.

    She seems like a nice person.

    1. They are going to bail out all the freelance travel journalists and consultants.
      In other words, businesses that should go to the wall in a recession, to maintain a healthy economy!

      Can anyone tell me what is the difference between subsidising these useless businesses and subsidising nationalised industries?

      1. Those freelance travel journalists and consultants actually keep the worldwide travel business going. Not everyone knows exactly where they want to go and can book all the arrangements themselves.

        1. Not much good in a recession though is it. The government has now added to its long list of ways to spend our money, by keeping these people sitting on their butts at our expense.

  16. A disappointing lack of candour and a pity this wasn’t to hand for the other panellists on QT:

    A Question Time rant from Lancet editor Richard Horton is doing the rounds this morning after he savaged the “national scandal” of “being in this position. We knew in the last week of January that this was coming – the message from China was absolutely clear that a new virus with pandemic potential was hitting cities.” Hindsight is a wonderful thing…

    Richard claims the message by the end of January from China was absolutely clear – why then, in late January, did he Tweet:

    richard horton
    @richardhorton1
    A call for caution please. Media are escalating anxiety by talking of a “killer virus” + “growing fears”. In truth, from what we currently know, 2019-nCoV has moderate transmissibility and relatively low pathogenicity. There is no reason to foster panic with exaggerated language.

    2,904
    7:18 AM – Jan 24, 2020
    Twitter Ads info and privacy
    1,584 people are talking about this

    The WHO at the time downplayed the possibility of Coronavirus becoming a global pandemic, and parroted the Chinese authorities ‘findings’ that there was no clear evidence of human-to-human transmission. Something Horton called “clear and confident”…

    richard horton
    @richardhorton1
    And, when one examines the global response to 2019-nCoV, Chinese authorities have acted quickly and decisively to control the outbreak. They have shared information rapidly and transparently. Meanwhile, WHO has been impressive: clear and confident decisions and communication.

    251
    7:29 AM – Jan 24, 2020
    Twitter Ads info and privacy
    93 people are talking about this

    Richard’s own journal, The Lancet, included a report on the effects of Coronavirus in China published weeks later in the February edition, which said “2019-nCoV still needs to be studied deeply in case it becomes a global health threat” – implying they did not, at the time, see the virus as a global health threat.Richard is arguing that governments around the world should have seen what he, the editor of one of the world’s premier medical journals, only sees in retrospect…

    https://order-order.com/2020/03/27/lancet-editor-slams-government-for-listening-to-his-advice/

      2. We all make mistakes and misjudgements. But why does Horton not think that best thing to do is to come clean and admit his mistakes and errors of judgement?

        Do people no longer see that admitting a mistake is morally far better than lying?

        1. A lot of people in positions of power seem to think it’s worse to admit to making a mistake and will either deny that they made a mistake, or do a complete 180 and then blame everyone else.

          2. No, under their system, they never make mistakes unless they suddenly appear in the dock in disgrace at a Show Trial.

        2. No. For one thing they don’t have morals. For another, they are frightened of being wrong.
          On my induction course for my first proper job, the manager told our group, “the man who never made a mistake never made anything”.
          I’ve never forgotten that.

        4. Admitting fault shows a potential for blame. Blame brings shame. No one these days can allow themselves to feel shame.

    2. Anyone who wasn’t buying bog roll at the end of January cannot claim to have foreseen this coming!
      QED.

      1. I bought 150 bog rolls around then. And started stocking up a little on some items. Tbh, I’ve been suggesting to my OH we should stock up on tins and dried goods since before Christmas. Not that we did, and the time when I knew we really should, I was ill and in bed and not doing the shopping.
        MOH had come across some news about the fuel used for ships, e.g. tankers, etc, and that they were supposed to be changing to a more “environmentally friendly” fuel by the end of January, but that very few had. We thought there’d be a problem with shipping goods across the globe, leading to food and other shortages. Plus there’s the low grain harvests from last year due to bad weather, and a global shortage of pork due to the Chinese swine flu outbreak. This covid-19 May be purely coincidental, and it may not, but there were a lot of signs pointing towards global food shortages. A drop in global population would be very helpful right about now, wouldn’t it? Except it’s not really happening in places where there’s been a massive increase in population numbers over the past few decades.

    3. A@rse meet elbow.
      (Note to Dr. Horton: if in doubt about locations, consult your Grey’s Anatomy.)

    1. Clay Travis
      ✔
      @ClayTravis
      Essentially his explanation is this: “I gave the worst possible death rate based on a bad model & then when the actual data reflected my death scenario was implausible, absurd & ridiculous I made my estimate 1/25th what it was & said it changed because people listened to me.”

    1. Mongo remains confused as to why he has not gone swimming. I am tempted to pootle to the park and walk around on the grass as my blasted leg aches.

    1. I wonder what the doctors and nurses would say about that claim? If there are enough ventilators, they seem to be in the wrong place.

  21. A nation weeps, rends its garments and covers itself in sackcloth and ashes:

    “Liberal Democrats suspend Leadership Campaign until May 2021

    In a press release the party announced that as a result of the Coronavirus crisis, the Liberal Democrat Federal Board has decided to postpone the leadership election until May 2021.

    President of the Lib Dems, Mark Pack, said that the party needed needed to “put all our attention into dealing with fallout from the Coronavirus”.

    “The Liberal Democrats have always put the national interest first and I am proud of the role we have played in championing NHS and care workers, as well as sticking up for the self-employed,” he said.

    “We will continue to scrutinise government policy and fight for the most vulnerable in our society.”

    The leadership race was underway after Jo Swinson, the former leader, lost her seat in December’s general election.”

    1. I hear they’ve had to order three new phone boxes so that they can social distance by each having one.

    2. …”and fight for the most vulnerable in our society.” Err, umm,…does that mean the LibDums?

    3. Guess what, Mark Prick – no-one noticed.

      ‘Afternoon, Anne – enjoy your bath but don’t slip and bugger the new hip.

    4. Is there actually a current leader of the party or is Swinson still there just as is Corbyn is still leader of the Labour Party?

      1. Ed Davey & Mark Pack are acting leaders since 1 January 2020, as the party rules meant that Jo Swinson could not lead, as she was no longer an MP.

    5. May2021 ? That doesn’t leave them much time to select one does it…. What about the primaries, and the secondaries and the tertiaries and the quaternaries, etc. ad infinitum.

  22. From a subscription site:

    Rightly or wrongly, I’m increasingly coming round to the view that the actions being taken by Governments, in shutting down large parts of the economy, could well turn out to be counter-productive. Hundreds of £billions in economic activity is being killed off, with ruinously expensive compensation schemes being dreamed up. For what benefit? We’re likely to end up with millions of unemployed, many thousands of destroyed businesses, all of which might have slowed down the spread of the virus a little.

    Seeing police being asked to stop traffic, and accost people in parks, to enforce inconsistent & illogical policies on social distancing, again just strikes me of authorities feeling the need to be seen to be doing something. Meanwhile millions of people are crammed into buses & trains, going in to work as normal. So which is it? Are we isolating, or not? To my mind, we should be rigorously isolating anyone who is vulnerable, and everyone else should be getting on with life and trying to keep the economy going.

    In terms of shares, we really haven’t even begun to count the cost of the economic mayhem which is unfolding. Forecasts have gone out of the window – we haven’t got any sensible guidance yet on how companies might perform. Lots of companies are likely to be reporting huge losses this year, and may or may not survive.

    For this reason, I’m losing confidence in the recent big bounce in oversold shares, and have decided to bank more profits.

    We’re in completely uncharted territory, there’s never been anything like this happen before – with an extended shutdown of whole sectors. The losses are likely to be ruinously high, I reckon. On the flipside, Govts seem to be prepared to throw vast amounts of stimulus at the problem. A world that was already unreal, in terms of zero interest rates & mountains of debt, is getting more distorted by the day.

    https://app.stockopedia.com/content/small-cap-value-report-fri-27-mar-2020-hsw-intu-mpac-nxt-rmv-rdw-supr-582803?order=createdAt&sort=desc&mode=threaded

    1. It doesn’t matter.

      When they come to write the history it will say that these measures, although ruinously expensive, and causing povery to countless millions defeated the spread of a world-wide killer virus.

      Any criticism of it will be seen as antisocial.

    2. Have thought along these lines right from the start. Also What happens when another virus comes along? And what with Gordon. Brown urging world leaders to “create a temporary global government to tackle the twin medical and economic crises caused by the Covid-19 pandemic” we will end up being governed by the usual suspects, the WHO, the UN and others at the top of the tree probably including George S. we will be wishing to be under the thumb of the EU once more.

      I really feel that our freedoms are at stake, all due to over reaction to a virus.

      Edit: Added …
      It really infuriates me that planes are still arriving from Italy, Spain and Iran. Are they all expats returning? If not, why not? The British public are told to stay indoors and the authorities are considering releasing prisoners. The measures they are taking just seem so contradictory it just doesn’t make any sense.

      Sorry if similar already posted this morning – really traumatised by the shopping expedition! Think I’ll go and lie down. Have a great day all.

  23. Morning all, yesterday I spent time in the garden making good use of the warm dry weather followed by a good walk, today will be the same. It would be a crime not to act wisely in a crisis when one comes along.
    I hear from youngest that there is a possibility that her nursing course could now revert to the format of 80% in hospitals and 20% academic based, in other words the old tried and tested way which seemed to work so well in the past. I’m sure our Nottlers with nursing experience will make their thoughts known.
    In these troubled times, any crumb of positivity should be taken with both hands.
    My final task today is to FaceTime my vulnerable family members to check all is well and to lift spirits with at least a “face to face” conversation.
    Laters…

  24. Morning all

    SIR – I, too, have been trying to register for online shopping with Sainsbury’s (Letters, March 26). Both my husband and I are well over 70.

    After great persistence I have got through twice on the recommended telephone number, only to hear a recorded message telling me to go to the website. The website then sends me back to the telephone.

    My local store can’t help and is not big enough to do Click and Collect. There are no delivery slots for the foreseeable future. What do we do?

    L C Browne

    Ashbourne, Derbyshire

    1. SIR – I went to the over-70s shopping slot at Waitrose in Lymington. I arrived just after 7 am and was second in the queue, as the shop did not open until 7.30. The man ahead of me was turned away, as he was only 60.

      The staff controlled the numbers entering, asked customers to be as quick as possible and to limit their purchases of certain items. I was out before 7.50 with enough for my wife and me for a week. It beats spending hours online trying to book a delivery.

      B H Sherrad

      Barton on Sea, Hampshire

      SIR – My mother is 93 and very frail. She has severely impaired vision and can barely stand or walk. I live a 90-minute drive away. Since last year I have shopped online for her with Sainsbury’s, which delivered to her. This worked well until last week, when I was unable to get a slot for three weeks. When I tried to register her as vulnerable by phone, I couldn’t get through.

      Yesterday a recorded message told me to register via gov.uk, which I attempted to do. Several screens in I was asked if my mother suffered from a range of conditions, largely related to cancer, diseases of the immune system or chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. As she does not, I ticked “no” – and was told that she did not qualify. How am I supposed to get food to her?

      Kerry Wedlock

      Winchfield, Hampshire

      1. Well Mr Wedlock, in my town there are community support groups set up and leaflets being posted through our letterboxes. I would suggest you or one of your family who is computer literate start searching online. Our town support group can be found on Facebook with all contact details.
        At the very least your Mother has a local council, you could start there.
        It would be better if you spent your time being proactive instead of writing letters to a national newspaper.

      2. (cough) I might have lied and put down that she suffered from all those illnesses.
        Clearly I am not as honest as Kerry 🙁

  25. SIR – I operate a chauffeur service and, due to the loss of business, I am offering my 50 clients who live in north Norfolk a home-delivery service. They email me their shopping list or prescriptions and I go out and do the shopping, paying for it myself.

    I inform my client by a call or text when I will be delivering and leave the shopping by their door. Remaining at a safe distance, I watch them take the shopping in and check to make sure they are well. I then email them a receipt for the shopping and they pay by Bacs into my account.

    This is a very simple solution that allows a large number of people to remain at home.

    Matthew Hawkes

    Fakenham, Norfolk

  26. SIR – I am a business adviser with clients across the North West. Four of my clients – all well-run businesses and financially sound until coronavirus struck – have approached their banks for support under the initiatives recently announced by the Government.

    Without exception, they were turned down, but the banks offered them alternative products, which in some cases involved 22 per cent interest rates, exorbitant arrangement fees and personal guarantees.

    I’m afraid to say the banks are not helping at all. Indeed, they are seeking to profit from the situation by tying desperate business owners into punitive deals that will create hardship and, in some cases, bankruptcy – the exact opposite of the Government’s objective.

    David Lee

    Wistaston, Cheshire

    1. After the chaos their dodgy practices caused some 12 years back, the banks owe us – particularly businesses.
      ‘Bigley’ as a certain World Leader would say.

      1. Without checking, your savings with a High St bank will attract .2% or less,an unauthorised overdraft will cost you just under 40% APR and second tier lenders(often subsidiaries of the high st bandits) on daytime tv have rates on loans and credit cards from 40 to 900% APR
        Come back Wonga,all is forgiven
        ‘Morning BB

    3. My late mother’s bank wanted me to get a grant of probate after she died before they would release her savings, despite the official government advice that if the estate involved just savings and was below the inheritance tax threshold probate wasn’t required. Luckily I didn’t take up the bank’s suggestion that I use their legal partners – they wouldn’t quote a price for their “assistance” but the base level was £800 and would rise if problems were encountered. Despite all the horror stories about the probate process, a couple friends assured me that they’d done it themselves with no problems, so I tried. The HMRC section was easily completed online, and with that ticked I was able to go to the second stage, also online, before sending the required paperwork in. All credit to the team who process these things – about 5 working days later I had an email saying the grant of probate was on its way! Contrast that with the bank’s progress – the tracking code they gave me when I first reported the death to them doesn’t work because there is no “bereavement” option in the first drop down menu, and without that you can’t go any further! I sent them the grant of probate and all the other forms two weeks ago, and I haven’t even had an acknowledgement – that’s twice as long as the probate team took to sort out the whole process!! OK – COVID must be causing problems but sadly I think this is just typical of that bank’s rank inefficiency!

      1. Lloyd’s Bank? I had similar battles with them over my late father’s estate.

        1. Barclays in this case – out of interest I have just tried the link to their tracker that they sent me – it’s blank, and I get the same result from clicking on “Contact Us”! Not impressed!

  27. Morning again

    SIR – We have every sympathy with Seán Bellew (Letters, March 25), who is trying to get back home from South Africa. We are in Eleuthera in the Bahamas and are experiencing similar difficulties.

    We weren’t allowed to board an American Airlines flight to Miami last Friday, even though we had current Esta travel authorisation and a connecting British Airways flight to London for the same day. We had at that time been out of Britain for 15 days.

    The Bahamas is now in lockdown, which might end next week, or it might be extended. Calls to the Foreign Office go unanswered and email submissions are responded to with round robins that are of no relevance to us. I have spent hours on the phone to BA and AA and we have flights booked for next Tuesday, but we think it unlikely they will operate.

    We appreciate that we are not alone, but statements from Dominic Raab suggesting we must get home immediately (report, March 24) are, in the circumstances, extremely frustrating.

    Sue Gowar

    Eleuthera, The Bahamas

      1. Unless the term “The Bahamas” is a B&B in Rhyll, then they are somewhere we could only ever dream of.

      2. I think she said something about the Bahamas, wherever they are.

        If she had said Bermuda, I would have known straight away because I once stopped there for a piss on the way to Jamaica.

    2. The call to return by Mr Raab, which I missed, is entirely pointless and irrational, even stupid. The Foreign Office, and the UK Government is not responsible for UK citizens who go abroad and then cannot return because there are no means of transport available. Many of these people left during this period of crisis and not before. Any rational being would have seen things being closed down, borders being closed and would have decided the going abroad was not the smart thing to do, even if it meant losing some money.
      We now have these less than intelligent people somehow gaining national publicity for their self-inflicted “plight”. Most, if not all, are perfectly safe and well. My advice would be for them to make themselves useful where they are. Look to settling down in their present location. Far from feeling sympathy, I feel like jeering, as a well as angry that my taxes are being asked to be put to their rescue from their self chosen holiday.

  28. SIR – Watching a family of jackdaws trying to refurbish a nest under the solar panels on the roof of an outbuilding is providing constant entertainment while in isolation.

    The male arrives with a very long ash twig and struggles to get it under the panels, while the female sits on the gutter directing operations. She then dives under the panel, fishes the twig out and makes him start again, as it is obviously not to her satisfaction.

    Pamela Wallis

    Cucklington, Somerset

    1. We have jackdaws that take over a disused chimney on the house opposite, which we can see from our bedroom window.
      MB and I love watching them; they are so nakedly self-centred. One year, we watched a jackdaw playing ‘grandmother’s footsteps’. He sidled up to the chimney, all casual like: the moment the ‘owner’ looked in his direction, he stopped and feigned lack of interest; you could almost hear him whistling a thin tune.
      “Owner’ looked away; intruder sidled a little further along the ridge tiles. ‘Owner’ looked back ….. we were were in pleats.

    3. How can she tell the male from the female?

      They are visually identical in every way.

      All she’s doing is exhibiting her inbuilt misandry

      1. It will be instructive to note which groups find themselves cracked down upon and which don’t.

  31. It sounds as if that bitch Turdsburg on the BBC is questioning why Johnson was tested when front line NHS staff have not been.

    Look you stupid cow, he’s the most senior politician in the country and head of the Government, of course he should be high priority.

    1. He’s a bit more important than some twisted-faced BBC journo.

      These people are so up themselves. I think they all must have been to see All The President’s Men once too often and in their pea-brains they are Robert Redford and Dustin Hoffman all rolled into one.

    2. An SNP mouthpiece questioned as to why The Duke of Rothesay (AKA Prince Charles) was given a test whilst others are not. The reply was a local GP ordered the test as he showed symptoms + over 70 and she could not reveal any more under Patient Confidentiality.
      The fact that he was near the Queen about a week ago might have prompted a test – in a matter of a few days we could have seen the monarch and the heir to the throne snuffed out in quick succession might have prompted interest in the test result.

      1. Another example of creeps looking through the wrong end of the telescope.

        Even more than the PM, the Monarch and first in line are VIP’s in every sense of the expression.

  32. – There was a time when if you clapped loudly at your front door to someone for turning up to do a job you risked a smack in the mouth.

      1. Happy Birthday, Old troop. Enjoy it as much as possible and I’ll have a wee Deoch-an-doris to celebrate and toast you.

    3. Happy birthday, Belle. Doing anything exciting e.g. walking to the garden gate and back?

    5. Happy Birthday, Mags. Like Spikey, I’ll raise another Deoch-an-doris to your health.

  34. From the DT……….

    ”On Wednesday, the Government suspended all MOTs for six months for cars, motorbikes and vans starting from Monday March 30. This means that all MOTs are now effectively 18 months long. The Department for Transport said that people’s MOT dates will change about a week before their test is due, and they will be able to check the new date online. This will means MOTs due from the 30th with be valid for another six months, and so insurance won’t be affected”.

  36. Charles seems to have made a remarkable recovery.

    Up and about already.

    Maybe it’s not so serious after all ?

    Or did he get Chloroquine or Favilavir ?

    1. The government banned the export of Chloroquinine on 26th February.

      They obviously told their pals as Chloroquinine, an over the counter drug, sold out during March to those in the know.

      I assume that someone tipped off HM or his staff as he made a very quick recovery for someone of his age.

    2. The government banned the export of Chloroquinine on 26th February.

      They obviously told their pals as Chloroquinine, an over the counter drug, sold out during March to those in the know.

      I assume that someone tipped off HRH or his staff as he made a very quick recovery for someone of his age.

  37. From vacuum cleaners to ventilators – can Dyson make the leap? 26 march 2020.

    The fact that the government has placed firm orders for 10,000 CoVents pending regulatory approval indicates that the plan has legs. Dyson has also promised to donate another 5,000 to aid global efforts to fight Covid-19, with 1,000 of them reserved for the UK.

    I strongly suspect that by the time these ventilators are produced that the crisis will be over and most of them will end up on the scrap heap!

    https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/mar/26/from-vacuum-cleaners-to-ventilators-can-dyson-make-the-leap

    1. It’s just one more story to fit the Covid narrative keep going the madness, give people some false hope.

    2. It’s just one more story to fit the Covid narrative keep going the madness, give people some false hope.

      2. A very Happy Birthday to the Truly Beautiful Maggie.

        (Two lovely Nottlers with consecutive birthdays!)

        1. P.S. Why not celebrate by posting a photo of yourself on your wedding day with your husband?

          1. Happy Birthday, Belle.
            I might – fingers crossed – celebrate the day by having a bath.
            (Old houses and new boilers present some interesting complications.)

          3. Happy Birthday TB, it must be all that Dorset air that keeps you so youthful.

  38. Just looked in to Ocado’s website, on the off chance that future slots might be available. I’m 277,798 in a virtual queue. If it were a real queue, allowing for social distancing, it would stretch for 345 miles. That would keep the police drones busy.

    1. Jolly good, Caroline – it’s great to have that sense of achievement. I’m so happy that both you and Richard are both happy, especially with each other.

      I know that feeling – now, as I’ve only found my Best Beloved in the last 3 years.

    2. This photo reminds me that I must get back to the garden. The lawn, as I euphemistically call the rough area of greenery surrounding the house, will need several mows before it looks even remotely reasonable. But even then we have so many resident moles that we often get 30 or more new molehills each day. Of course there are hundreds of ways of dealing with moles described on the internet but if any of them really worked there would only be one way.

        1. The only time I ever fired a shotgun, when I was a student, I brought down a wood pigeon, which I later cooked & ate.

  40. Don’t quite see how Police Scotland are going to enforce the “lockdown” and the new “social gathering” laws. I might be hosting a ceilidh or running a shebeen on my property for all they know. I can’t remember when I last saw a bobby near here.

    Mrs. Mac says she thought she saw a police car drive past the house in the summer of 1992, but I reckon she was probably mistaken.

    1. They will use drones and Stasi-kids. Law-abiding eople walking their dogs inappropriately is exactly the kind of thing that they can enforce. Armed gangs, thieves and muslims who rape children are of far less interest.

      1. The polis must be so pissed-off having been dragged from their hate-crime duties on their ‘pooters to go and smack 2nd time dog-walkers.

        It’s a tough life in the polis-farce.

    3. The laws look to me to be unenforceable Duncan. When the Police ask why you are out you may invent any story that you please. Exercise. Emergency. Shopping. Whatever. How will they know if it is the truth or not?

  41. Prince Harry and Meghan ‘move to California’
    Sure, they’ll be out of the spotlight there. #Sarcs

    2. Well pretendy PM did say that Canada would stop paying for their security.

      I am sure that Trump will oblige.

      1. Don’t think the American people would want to see their tax dollars used for the security of these two.

        1. You might find that Trump has already put an import duty on them, they probably qualify as softwood.

      2. There’s nobody in California could be bothered with shooting minor slebs, the Californians are too busy hating each other.

    3. Hollyweird, how fitting. And I saw she has her final casting. A voice-over part…

      1. Fixed up by Prince Doormat while turning his back on the charity he should have been supporting.

      1. As British taxpayer (aka someone with the word ‘mug’ branded on their forehead) I do care.
        Beyond that, I don’t give a flying one.

    1. An extract from Charles Williams’ Caerhays entry for yesterday: they would seem to have that policeman from Doc Martin in attendance:

      ”
      So we rattle around the castle in glorious isolation. No sound of
      cars or people and just the cock pheasants purring as they fight over
      the hens. Down now to eight staff who have not been furloughed and the
      police are in evidence. They visited Porthluney Beach which has both car
      parks locked but there were still a few cars and walkers parked in the
      road doing their perfectly legitimate exercise. The police visited Mays
      and Griggs agricultural stores who were apparently only selling dog food
      and told them to shut. The Horticultural Trades Association advises
      that garden centres must shut BUT “can continue home deliveries and
      online ordering”. This is something of a reprieve for Burncoose
      Nurseries who are continuing to pack and fulfil the 143 plant orders
      received online yesterday. The travel to work to keep the economy going
      if you cannot work from home advice was always going to be hard to
      interpret in reality on the ground. Hopefully when things settle into
      the new routine ‘they’ will leave us alone with our mail orders.

      Although KPK has closed in a panic many large building sites are
      staying open with social distancing etc. I fear we were too hasty – and
      unfair to the subcontractors. How can you furlough your staff with
      individual letters that they need to sign if someone is not in an office
      sorting it out. March wages are paid today across the estate businesses
      – £90k. Come late April we will mainly be paying 80% of this and will
      hope that the government can and does pay us on the same date. Will
      they? Not unless a lot of time is spent in offices applying online with
      every individual’s PAYE records to hand. Could our accounts team work
      from home? Possibly but in the mad rush to get home cloud connections
      Richard’s kit does not yet work and he is still waiting for his new
      laptop computer ordered a while ago. Bugger the guidelines – apply
      common sense and distancing to survive!”
      http://thediary.caerhays.co.uk/march/26th-march/

    2. An extract from Charles Williams’ Caerhays entry for yesterday: they would seem to have that policeman from Doc Martin in attendance:

      ”
      So we rattle around the castle in glorious isolation. No sound of
      cars or people and just the cock pheasants purring as they fight over
      the hens. Down now to eight staff who have not been furloughed and the
      police are in evidence. They visited Porthluney Beach which has both car
      parks locked but there were still a few cars and walkers parked in the
      road doing their perfectly legitimate exercise. The police visited Mays
      and Griggs agricultural stores who were apparently only selling dog food
      and told them to shut. The Horticultural Trades Association advises
      that garden centres must shut BUT “can continue home deliveries and
      online ordering”. This is something of a reprieve for Burncoose
      Nurseries who are continuing to pack and fulfil the 143 plant orders
      received online yesterday. The travel to work to keep the economy going
      if you cannot work from home advice was always going to be hard to
      interpret in reality on the ground. Hopefully when things settle into
      the new routine ‘they’ will leave us alone with our mail orders.

      Although KPK has closed in a panic many large building sites are
      staying open with social distancing etc. I fear we were too hasty – and
      unfair to the subcontractors. How can you furlough your staff with
      individual letters that they need to sign if someone is not in an office
      sorting it out. March wages are paid today across the estate businesses
      – £90k. Come late April we will mainly be paying 80% of this and will
      hope that the government can and does pay us on the same date. Will
      they? Not unless a lot of time is spent in offices applying online with
      every individual’s PAYE records to hand. Could our accounts team work
      from home? Possibly but in the mad rush to get home cloud connections
      Richard’s kit does not yet work and he is still waiting for his new
      laptop computer ordered a while ago. Bugger the guidelines – apply
      common sense and distancing to survive!”
      http://thediary.caerhays.co.uk/march/26th-march/

    3. That was inevitable.
      Blighty has always had its quota of snitches. Up till now, they have been a minority, but the balance is very fine.
      That is why I’ve always been dubious when people claim that the USSR or the N@zis couldn’t happen here.

    4. People should spread the word to enter absurd reports on the website, thus flooding it with too many instances to be investigated (perhaps even crashing it).

  43. ood morning everyone.
    btl on the Telegraph letters page:

    “T Sedman-Smith
    27 Mar 2020 7:42AM
    I visited my local town shopping area yesterday. I was surprised to see that Timpson’s little stall next to Sainsbury’s was closed.
    I thought business employing key workers would stay open. “

  44. 317456+ up ticks,
    Any illegals landing should now be fast tracked through to the nearest welfare office as all indigenous have been warned off of going coastal.
    .

      1. 317456+ up ticks,
        Evening Atg,
        Not All the time you have parties with mass uncontrolled immigration policies finding support & votes.

  45. While grappling with the work laptop I have Radio 3 on in the background. Nice music but the news reports tell us in very solemn tones that we’re all going to die and Bob Dylan has just released his first new song in 8 years.

    1. I like his early stuff, but everything from about the late 70s onward has just passed me by.

    4. Radio Caroline: good music. No news reports. No “we’re all going to die” virus updates.

      Going to sit outside with MOH in the garden now.
      Play nicely, my friends.

      1. Who knows – there was barely any pause and no change in tone. At the first mention of old Bob I thought maybe he’d caught it but no, it appears he’s fine and still working.

    1. My friend Greater was telling me that that is actually visible coronavirus strands in that photo.

    1. The population of the US is 330m, a bit more than half of Europe’s 500m. So lets add up all the casualties here and compare..

      1. In the early days of electronic tills in supermarkets one of the major US electric till manufacturers staged a contest. It was between old -fashioned check out ladies who used abacuses, and operators of electronic tills. The ladies with the abacuses won, hands down.
        For more fun of this nature see the wonderful film “Populaire” about typewriting competitions:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gkyVpVuBo4

        1. I seem to remember that Russian shopkeepers used abacuses (abaci?) until relatively recently.
          Mind you, I’m not sure trade in the USSR was exactly booming.

        2. That reminds me of the superior young ladies doing a two year secretarial course.
          They were allowed to cut stencils.

      1. ‘Morning, Geoff, don’t confuse the poor girl, just tell her that the pope shits in the woods.

    2. It’s the first mutant bat delivery since the outbreak. We have issues with our tissues and they’re just batshit crazy.

    1. Morning! 10:27 now. Had to renew one of my work passwords this morning. Usual faff. That one’s too short. That one’s too simple. You’ve used that one before. I wrote the finally accepted version down on my notepad. Who else is going to see it if I don’t go out and no-one comes in!

      1. Use a password manager on your computer to generate and save gobbledegook, and you never have to write them down or remember them. Of course, I might be in trouble if I accidentally delete it……

        1. Then your computer breaks down.
          No problem, the password management company saves them on its servers.
          This is a really secure company, right?

          1. Well it is just a small accessory. But everything on my computer is networked to my son in Basel.

          2. Everyone keeps saying a password manager is the way to go, but I’m not convinced, due to the above arguments. I have a ridiculous number of passwords now, but there is no easy solution.
            I’d like to see the killer argument for password managers.

          3. May I suggest the something along the following lines?

            1) Choose a common 1st half of a password e.g. Blackbox999 (this satisfies the frequent requirement of UC and LC characters as well as a number)
            2) Add a common special character e.g. #, giving Blackbox999# (this satisfies the requirement for a special character)
            3) Add the first three characters of the site name inverting the first character’s case eg bBC, giving Blacbox999#bBC.
            4) Add the special character again e.g. now giving Blackbox999#bBC#.

            You now never have to remember a password – it can always be derived but only by you. It sounds daunting but it very soon becomes second nature. It also means that if your password is hacked, it’s very easy to determine for which account/site it was for and it can be changed.

            This tip was given to my son who works in cyber security.

          4. Thank you!
            I do follow cyber security news, and have a formula that I use for passwords – one where I’d have to kill you if I told you. Otherwise I’d go crazy trying to remember them all.
            I like idea of incorporating the site name, but by definition, I don’t like entering my passwords to check if they are among stolen password databases.
            For people who don’t mind entering their passwords to see if they’ve been stolen, try it here:
            https://haveibeenpwned.com/Passwords

            Then there is the joy of finding that Windows or the Mac has set itself to a keyboard layout that is different from the one you use….some special characters are now invisible or unavailable…

          5. I don’t know if there is one, but it’s a lot easier to maintain a different password for each site this way, than trying to remember them, or by writing them down.

      4. There is little requirement for passwords generally. It is geekery.
        When running tele-sales offices I always advised the staff to write passwords on something they could see easily, like a postcard or the wall. The notion drove the IT people to have fits (which was an added benefit).

      5. The BBC live in the past I’m afraid. It was at least a couple of years ago that it was concluded in security circles that over frequent password change requirements reduced security because everyone started writing them down…

      6. Whenever I have a new password on any site I try and enter it on a particular computer file (and keywords/questions etc). This file is not named “passwords”.

  54. Q: What is, for you, the biggest lesson from the Coronavirus crisis?

    A: How much I used to enjoy my normal (and fairly unadventurous) routine.

      1. Oh, yes, a great success and a new lifetime job for my wife – the beauty is she can trim it evry (say) 3 weeks, and I’ll put the colour on her hair in return (she’d allergic to grey hairs, although I don’t mind them on a woman).

        1. Whaaaaaaat??????? She’s going to let you loose on her hair? Well I never. I’m impressed.

  55. Managed to walk to the post box without having to show I.D. and prove why I was out. Letter now posted.

    2. One of my fondest memories of an early childhood in Sussex is walking down the country lane outside Old Shoreham clutching my grandmother’s hand to put a let-let (letter) in the post box. That lane (Mill Hill) is now the high flyover over the A27. I was staggered when I saw it years later.

      1. Thats why so many people say “never go back” you will be dissapointed. our nearest post box is about 60 seconds away.

  58. Popped into the DM website for my daily dose of gloom and doom.
    Richard Littlejohn; is it fiction? I suspect many of us know what Brenda thinks of her eldest son.

    “Let’s hope Prince Charles makes a speedy recovery, Ma’am.

    He’ll be fine. He’s self-isolating at Balmoral, boring the pants off the daffodils and listening to his Goon Show tapes, I shouldn’t wonder. Camilla’s probably glad of the break.”

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8158419/RICHARD-LITTLEJOHN-Prince-Philip-No-Im-worried-dorgis.html

      1. With about 3 acres of garden around our house and plenty of work to do both indoors and outdoors we are not finding isolation too much of a hardship. Indeed we are very happy to stay at home – the irksome thing for many of us is not staying at home but being aware that we must not go out even if we don’t want to go out.

        1. I’m sitting here now undecided if I’m going to take my government-sanctioned stroll along the river today or not.

          On balance I’m thinking I might not bother, although it’s pleasantly sunny outside, with a soft, misty light.

          I think I’ll just have a lazy day in the house and maybe get on with something artistic.

          1. I have just cleaned out the winter junk from my carport/vineyard. I have astroturfed it and put out garden furniture and potted plants ready for the rainstorms coming.

        1. Tying his shoe laces is something he’s going to have to learn (and ironing them first)

    2. I laughed at meme which had him ruing having longed for the crown for so many decades, but sadly it only works in Spanish…

    3. Not Balmoral. He is at his own house, Birkhall (described as a cottage). I am not sure how many staff there are there, but would estimate around 15 as a minimum.
      More info here:
      https://www.countrylife.co.uk/gardens/country-gardens-and-gardening-tips/birkhall-balmoral-estate-aberdeenshire-4424
      https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/09/Birkhall%2C_Royal_residence_-_geograph.org.uk_-_1145728.jpg

      His estate is 50,000ish acres though*. Between them* about the 100 times the size of Monaco.

      *The MSM have conflated Balmoral and Birkhall. So I am not sure if the total area of the two estates is 50k acres, or if both are about the same size.

        1. Yes. Lucky, eh?
          This morning a nurse from Aberdeen Royal Infirmary complained the Prince Charles was tested, but that the front line staff at Aberdeen Infirmary were not being tested as there were not enough kits. The Chief Medical Officer for Scotland said that there were reasons for Charles to be tested but refused to say what they were because of DPA.

    4. Good morning Anne

      You are quite right. Prince Charles has that gift shared by many school teachers as well as politicians – that is to make the most interesting things excruciatingly dull and boring.

  61. Small things amuse small minds. I am reading a book which has been scanned into Kindle format via OCR. The hero has just landed at an airport and gone off to hire an ear. I hope he chose Avis, because they try harder…

    1. We’ll see a lot more of this from politicians and others whose jobs and lifestyles bring them into closer contact with many more others and more often than any brickie on a building site (so exercising the media at the moment) ever will.

          1. What a thing to have a blazing row about. Just buy another bloody sofa. It’s not as if Boris would need to buy a second hand one from the British Heart Foundation.

          2. As both he and his beloved are hideously white, they can’t buy one from DFS.
            The company isn’t interested in our trade.

          3. As i mentioned the BHF. Which is very good for people starting out besides what they raise money for and the fact that they employ the type of people that would have worked for Remploy.

            I have bought some very nice sideboards and a fire surround from them. All beautiful dark polished wood at a knock down price.

            Last year i gave them a three, two and armchair Chesterfield suite. They couldn’t understand why i was just giving it away. I told them the truth. After 25 years of caring for the thing and the amount of time it took to bring it up to standard …i had had enough !

            Someone got a bargain……

          4. Many years ago a glass of cheap red (it’s all we could afford then with one wage, two young boys and no benefits beyond child allowance) got spilt on one of our few luxuries, a wool dove-grey carpet, 25 square yards of it, while we were having a glass or two with a couple of close friends.

            Panic. I remembered seeing somewhere that the way to remove red wine was to catch it fresh, douse it with white wine and slowly absorb it with towels etc.

            We had no such thing as white wine, but I reasoned that it probably worked because alcohol is a solvent. I remembered the bottle of meths in our utility room and thinking that a little purple dye could do no harm considering the mess that the red had made I splashed a good dose of meths on the affected area, ensuring that none of us was smoking at the time. By then my wife was calming down to a state of just being totally unreasonable from her previous thermonuclear state and she managed to help me out by getting a few old towels out of a cupboard.

            Ten minutes later the stain was completely gone and peace reigned once more as we opened another bottle of red.

          6. It lasted for many years unstained other than for that occasion.

            Considering we lived in a farm cottage at the time and most of the boys’ playing was done outside in wellies (as was their indoor playing) it came out of it very well. We were in that house 9 years and when we moved we fitted it into a smaller room, where it lasted for some time longer. It was more at risk from adults than the boys.

            It was one of those things that you can’t afford when you buy it, but it pays back for itself over the years.

    4. We’ll see a lot more of this from politicians and others whose jobs and lifestyles bring them into closer contact with many more others and more often than any brickie on a building site (so exercising the media at the moment) ever will.

    2. This deserves far more upticks. Come on Nottlers – you really must listen to this.

      1. Sorry. I couldn’t stand the original.

        Hated it.

        I always thought it was overblown garbage, but like ‘Imagine’ it’s been elevated for some reason beyond me.

        1. I’s a brilliant parody of Queen. Adrian Grimes, the lead vocalist, is also a top medical writer and researcher in Wisconsin specialising in cardio-vascular disease who got his first degree – a first – in Bio-Chemistry at the University of London. Do you remember the brilliant group called Instant Sunshine, most of whom were doctors?

          Agree with you about ‘Imagine’. George and Paul were better musicians, Ringo was an affable rogue and John was a sh*t.

          1. I remember Instant Sunshine, but just the thought of Bohemian Rhapsody is like fingernails down a blackboard to me.

            It’s a tune I want nowhere near my mind.

      3. A couple of versions were posted yesterday, so a lot of nottlers may already have listened to it

  66. Spent all day severely cutting back the shrubs, been down the dump, having a large rum and coke with a slice of lemon and surveying my handiwork and soaking up the late afternoon sun, I think i’m working harder this week than when at work

    1. Down the dump? In this part of the world they are all shut and garden waste collections suspended until further notice.
      Rum and coke still available in VVOF Towers so not all bad.

    1. Why chop & spoil the parsley at the beginning? He should have done that while the spaghetti was cooking.

      I hope he washes his hands before taking a pee. Otherwise he’ll know all about it.

  70. I have decided to move to BST already. It is now 12.17 and was time for coffee hours ago.

    1. Better start being kind to them. She might end up being queen this time next year.

      And I get the feeling she might be more of the temperament of The Queen of Hearts than our current beloved treasure.

          1. It’s a very great pity that their resignation from senior Royal duties didn’t include a clause rescinding all title to the throne for them and the child.

    2. Well surprise surprise as our Cilla would say! No one could have foreseen this! (Sarc)

      Afternoon all. Braved the shopping early (for me) this morning. Was outside the chemist to pick up Alf’s prescription before 9 and it wasn’t open. Made the mistake of going across to the greengrocers where there was a queue, all standing the requisite 6 feet apart, and it took over an hour to get apples, nordacotts, blueberries and onions and then wait for the prescription. Greengrocers very clued up, monitoring the queue and only letting people in when someone had come out, able to pay outside as well as inside coz they’d made use of the pavement outside to display their goods, eventually in and out very quickly. Not so the chemist. Hopelessly slow and only 2 customers inside despite the notice saying 4 were allowed in.

      And I’d forgotten my coat so waiting outside was pretty chilly with the wind. Probably go down with pneumonia now! (It’s being so cheerful that keeps me going!

      1. Our post office had a sign outside saying “Only 1 customer at a time allowed in” and…..2 staff members standing behind the counter!!

        1. Apparently they are really Nadorcotts but they’re really sweet and mostly pip free. Only saw them a few weeks ago in our local greengrocers and thought I’d try them. Very glad I did.

        1. Neither had I. They’re really lovely and I only tried them a few weeks ago. If you have the chance give them a go.

          BTW how is the hip doing? Hope all is proceeding well.

  72. I note that Polly was allowed to post yet more completely misleading posts a few hours ago. Posts that aimed to mislead about the modelling done by imperial college. This isn’t freedom of speech, this is deliberate misinformation and she did it on the day the UK death rate surged. Ogga gets it, veryoldfellow gets it; why isn’t Polly being taken down?

    1. Polly was banned many times a few weeks ago – she comes back like a bad smell. It’s pointless. I’m not reading every post so i won’t be trawling through for her witterings.

      I see you deleted your other account but came back anyway.

      1. You’re sticking your head in the sand. Her reposting of misinformation from from the Washington Examiner was appalling. But fine, leave it up and help spread nonsense.

          1. Perhaps it’s time to wheel out the secret weapon which sent Bill J. packing. 😉

        2. May I make the case for closing the ghastly Guardian for whom lies are mandatory and widely believed.

          2. As you dispute the WE tweets, why not take it up with them ?

            Have you done that ?

          4. Did you realize that the Washington Examiner was tweeting the White House coordinator, Dr Blix ?

          5. Yes. I also realised that the WE has deliberately misled people about the different scenarios in the report and has lied about the numbers being revised. You also realise that but you can’t bring yourself to admit your mistake.

          6. Just a minute. The tweets I linked from the WE featured the White House coordinator, Dr Birx.

            So you blame me for Dr Birx.

            That is just massively unreasonable on your part.

          7. Yes I blame you for posting a link to lies and misinformation from the WE. You also described the Imperial professor as “so called” and you linked to a Twitter thread which also sort to misinform about the modelling. So yes, I blame you and believe you should be banned from this site.

          8. I don’t remember calling him ”so called”. Could you produce evidence to confirm please.

            I posted a tweet which featured the US government coordinator.

            Accusing me of lies and misinformation is ridiculous.

            What’s wrong with querying the modelling ? Dr Birx does, in effect. She seems very unconvinced.

          10. I don’t remember using the words ”so called”. Originally I said it looks like the government got it wrong. Well, they did. They ignored the warning on February 28 that ACE/ARB medications might be a serious risk factor.

            This was massively negligent on the part of HMG and is a huge scandal.

          11. I’m not sure if you realized but Dr. Deborah L. Birx is the response coordinator for the White House and the Washington Examiner is merely tweeting her updates which, on this occasion, featured Imperial College.

            So why do you have a problem with that in particular ?

        1. You don’t like the truth any more than the cockroach does. I say what I think. It’s not intended as an insult. You can take it as you like.

          1. To say that someone returns ”like a bad smell” is unpleasant and quite unnecessary.

            In fact, it might even be a good thing I returned if you read Mr Graham’s recent posts.

      1. Spreading deliberate lies should be illegal when there’s a threat such as we face now.

          4. yes, but to be fair Andy, a lot of people believe every lie that come out of the mouths of the government too.
            A healthy scepticism is better than trusting what one hears because the lies have been edited out by the benevolent authorities.

        2. No deliberate lies on my part, Sweetie.

          Did you know Imperial College has financial links historically with Open Society ?

          1. I may not be any of those things but I have made my mind up, I blocked her to have a rest from her neverending Uncle George/Donny Trump/good old USA posts.
            If you read her posts, there appears to be nothing in her life apart from this type of thing. No funny posts about her day or what was the choice for a meal. I forget who said it, but she has been accused of being a shrill for Soros, perhaps she is.
            I will unblock her when I have the patience to read her posts again.

    3. I’ve been out in the garden most of the day. What is the gist of what she is saying and why is it misleading? Did it include her current hobbyhorse, ACE inhibitors?

      1. She has posted a lie from a US conspiracy site, which claims the Imperial team have revised their modelling of deaths down from 500000 to 20000. This lie has spread all day over social media as so called proof the experts have no idea what they’re doing. The truth is that no numbers have been revised, instead the 500k deaths is the forecast if we take no action and the 20k deaths is the forecast if we take the current measures.

        1. That interpretation of the two sets of numbers is what I suggested yesterday on the DT site, which ruffled the feathers of the sceptics. Statistics, eh?

          1. Better to argue the point not suppress the debate. Having lived through the grotesque impositions of university modellers and climate scientists cheating and manipulating to persuade the gullible that a trace gas, vital to us all, had acquired new physical properties so that it is now to be the instrument of our doom, some are naturally anxious that a group of imaginative dealers in disaster have in their power the transformation of society. Some remember the thousands of cattle slaughtered because of the advice of other useless predictions and wonder aloud that once again we might have succumbed to our natural propensity for collective hysteria.

        2. You mean it wasn’t a Soros bash?

          Anything from the US is suspect. I look at CNN and fox news, you can hardly believe that they are talking about the same country.

          I take your point about incorrect information being dangerous , why not post a strong rebuttal to the post and then flag it.

          Mods don’t do fact checking and I don’t even look at the parrot droppings.

          1. I look at CNN and fox news, you can hardly believe that they are talking about the same country.

            That’s ‘cos they almost are not. The Fox audience does not want to hear anything that disagrees with their prejudices, so Fox simply doesn’t report a lot of stories.

          2. Whereas the NYT, NYP, WSJ, CNN, the WaPo and others are paragons of virtue who would sometimes consider Trump might be right.

            Ha ha ha.

          3. Unfortunately the post is so far down today’s page, I doubt anyone would see the rebuttal. A pity because her post goes well beyond the normal garbage about Soros.

          7. Is that the ”garbage” where Open Society claims to ”leverage legislation and policy” through ”strong relationships with officials and politicians” ?

            I wonder which ”legislation” Open Society has ”leveraged” ?

            Do you know ?

            Do you know which ”officials and politicians” are involved ?

          8. You stupid idiot. You deliberately shared lies from the Washington Examiner which set out to lie about what the Imperial team ‘s modelling shows. You even implied the professor wasn’t a professor. People are dying at an unheard of daily rate and you think it’s fun to spread disinformation. You’re a disgrace.

          9. Have a sit down with a nice cup of tea and relax.

            None of those accusations are true.

          10. The report you shared deliberately set out to deceive. Nearly 200 people died today and you set out to spread disinformation about the UK’s response.

          11. Ummm…. will you be having a word with Andrew Neil too ?

            https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1243174658465284096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1243174658465284096&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdisqus.com%2Fembed%2Fcomments%2F%3Fbase%3Ddefault%26f%3Dnottl%26t_i%3D556%2520https%253A%252F%252Fnttl.blog%252F%253Fp%253D556%26t_u%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fnttl.blog%252Ffriday-27-march-online-shopping-registration-is-sending-customers-round-in-circles%252F%26t_e%3DFriday%252027%2520March%253A%2520Online%2520shopping%2520registration%2520is%2520sending%2520customers%2520round%2520in%2520circles%26t_d%3DFriday%252027%2520March%253A%2520Online%2520shopping%2520registration%2520is%2520sending%2520customers%2520round%2520in%2520circles%26t_t%3DFriday%252027%2520March%253A%2520Online%2520shopping%2520registration%2520is%2520sending%2520customers%2520round%2520in%2520circles%26s_o%3Ddesc%23version%3D5292b630ce2f71905e4a276c23013b78

          12. Plenty have already put him straight in replies. Another person like you who hasn’t actually read and understood the original report.

          13. I have never deliberately set out to deceive anyone.

            The UK’s response is obviously faulty anyway because they failed to warn individuals on ACE/ARB medication to isolate from February 28 when the information became available. As a precautionary measure pending further research.

            If the government had done that, things might be better.

        4. Maybe the Washington Examiner got its story from the New Scientist magazine or the Telegraph:

          Coronavirus: No 10’s strategy switch may save 250,000 lives

          “Tuesday March 17 2020, 9.00am, The Times
          More than a quarter of a million people would have died under previous plans to control the spread of coronavirus, according to the government’s own advisers.
          Data modellers from Imperial College London said that Britain was now adopting a strategy to suppress and halt the outbreak rather than contain it or “flatten the curve”. They added that dramatic restrictions on movements announced yesterday were likely to stay in place until a vaccine was found in 12 to 18 months because, without herd immunity, the disease would simply return once they were lifted.
          “The aim is not to slow the rate of growth of cases but actually pull the epidemic into reverse,” Neil Ferguson, from Imperial College, London, said.”

          “https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/”

          The UK should now be able to cope with the spread of the covid-19 virus, according to one of the epidemiologists advising the government.

          Neil Ferguson at Imperial College London gave evidence today to the UK’s parliamentary select committee on science and technology as part of an inquiry into the nation’s response to the coronavirus outbreak.

          He said that expected increases in National Health Service capacity and ongoing restrictions to people’s movements make him “reasonably confident” the health service can cope when the predicted peak of the epidemic arrives in two or three weeks. UK deaths from the disease are now unlikely to exceed 20,000, he said, and could be much lower.”

          https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/17/will-20000-coronavirus-deaths-uk-data-modelling-suggests/

          Perhaps you should be contacting the BBC who have been saying this:
          “Each day news of more deaths is a huge source of alarm to people across the country – as well as a tragedy for the families involved.
          Projections of how bad it could get have prompted strict measures to be taken, with pubs, clubs, theatres and schools closed and people told to stay at home.
          A key piece of modelling which has informed government has been done by Imperial College London.
          It suggested 500,000 could die if we do nothing, while the government’s previous strategy to slow the spread was likely to lead to 250,000 deaths.
          Instead, it is hoped the steps which have been taken, which are essentially about suppressing the virus, will limit deaths to 20,000.”

          https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-51979654

          1. Jeez. The WE is claiming the modelling team got it wrong and have revised down their numbers. That’s a lie.

    4. I put this link on in reply to you yesterday.
      https://disq.us/url?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.spectator.co.uk%2Farticle%2FThe-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think%3A_2tsam-8UYhn0myehUpchf8C2Q4&cuid=5852343
      Dr John Lee is a recently retired professor of pathology, an expert in my opinion, where he notes that as COVID 19 is a notifiable infectious disease, in the U.K., it must be noted on the Death Certificate as the cause of death regardless of whether it was the main cause of not. Reporting systems around the world are not consistent and therefore what some people consider to be the truth others, like Dr Lee, consider it is comparing apples with oranges.
      I have never blocked anybody and am not in favour of banning. I am in favour of, generally, ignoring people who annoy me and scroll past their utterings. I am able to make up my own mind.

      1. I read it and he makes a good case but he is ignoring the predicted surge in cases. If the cases were all nicely spread out like flu, there wouldn’t be much concern. The problem is the pandemics cause surges that overwhelm health services and that results in more deaths than would occur if there was an even spread of the illness.

        1. That is because his opinion is at variance with the’expert’ you agree with. Neither are lies or truth and we won’t know that until this panic/crisis is over. Many things that are predicted never materialise.

          1. No. He is ignoring the surge effect seen with pandemics. His paper could be 100% correct, but if he ignores the surge, he’s totally missed the point. The surge started yesterday in this country.

          2. There might not be a surge though if government hadn’t been taking advice from the WHO which so far has got a lot wrong.

          3. You are believing it is a pandemic when after the event we might be able to compare apples with apples and it may not have been a pandemic. Too many predictions by experts over the years have wildly wrong. I may be wrong or I may be right but none of us will know until it’s over.

        2. Neil Ferguson at Imperial College London said that expected increases in National Health Service capacity and ongoing restrictions to people’s movements make him “reasonably confident” the health service can cope when the predicted peak of the epidemic arrives in two or three weeks. UK deaths from the disease are now unlikely to exceed 20,000, he said, and could be much lower.

          I believe this is the same man that said deaths could be 250,000.

          Read more: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/#ixzz6HurMA9oi

          1. Yes, he said that if we stuck to the old mitigation rather than the new suppression strategy, we’d have 250k deaths. Luckily we took his advice and the forecast is now below 20000.

          2. Luckily ?

            Wouldn’t it have been much better to concentrate on the main risk groups, and far earlier too. Way back to February 29 ?

            Ignoring the research into ACE/ARB medication and it’s possible interaction with C-19 looks massively negligent.

    5. What’s your problem with the Washington Examiner ?

      Don’t you like it because it’s generally supportive of Donny ?

      1. My problem would be that it does not have a reputation for publishing the truth and nothing but the truth. It’s an alt right rag, so truth is optional.

  74. Hurrah! The Boat Race is going ahead!
    The crews will be reduced however. Instead of 8 there will be 2 plus the cox. The bow will be at No 1 as usual and stroke will move forward to No 5. No change to the position of the cox, obviously. This arrangement will keep them all 2 metres apart. While this will please afficionados, they don’t think that the record times will be in any way threatened.

    1. Pooh dear old friend, please kindly observe the 2m guidance

      Or i’ll kick your sorry arse over the bridge.

    2. The bridge is not worth the detour, if walking in the Ashdown Forest.
      If you do decide to go, take your own sticks, the shrubs around the bridge are denuded.

    5. Is that an essential activity, and is it essential to travel to the bridge over the stream? You should do this at home, with family members only, or the Fuzz will arrest you…

  76. Typical day under lockdown in the Rees-Mogg residence.

    Young Mogg – “Daddy”
    Mogg looking up from his daily estate expenditure audit, “yes son and heir”,

    Young Mogg, “Knock Knock”,

    Mogg, ” Hold on son”, “Buttons, the door please”.

  77. I suppose it means another day in the garden, that hypericum, Abelia and lavender are for it today.

    1. Lawn mowing and major laundry operation for me. Spring is here, though it goes again tomorrow…
      EDIT: Given up on the lawn mowing, there is a very heavy dew and everything is soaking wet.

  79. BBC World Service
    Half asleep with my headphones on last night and a.m.
    Did I really hear that Macron said Shengen should be ditched?

    1. Yes, I heard that. His feed must have been hacked or perhaps someone is going to suggest the abolition of all 27 nation states. It must be the ultimate aim!

  80. Sweden keeps schools and borders open in ‘huge experiment’ on virus. 27 march 2020.

    Swedish children continued to pour through the gates of their schools and kindergartens on Thursday as the Nordic nation stood increasingly alone in Europe in its approach to tackling the coronavirus pandemic.

    Shops and restaurants also remained open across the country, with parks and recreational areas packed with groups enjoying the spring sunshine.

    Despite a surge in Covid-19 patients and growing dissent among epidemiological experts, the Swedish government’s medical experts were last night standing by their decision not to follow almost all other EU nations by instituting economic and social lockdowns.

    If the Swedes are wrong, they should; if I understand the model used by everyone else correctly, be shortly overtaken by an avalanche of CV cases that will overwhelm their health services causing medical chaos and suffering. A sort of mini Black Death which will then subside as the virus will have killed off those susceptible and left only those naturally immune and survivors behind. If this does not happen it will mean the model is crap and we’ve tanked the World Economy for nothing!

    Am I correct in this supposition?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/26/sweden-keeps-schools-borders-open-huge-experiment-virus/

    2. Sweden has already been swamped with the Black Death – it’s called Islam. We’re not far behind.

    3. Maybe Sweden can be used as a model by the US. If Sweden does not become overwhelmed by new cases, it might be possible to ease off in States with low infection rates.

      Trump is now threatening to deploy troops on the Canadian border. Why anyone would want to sneak into coronavirus hotspots New York or California at the moment, I don know. Perhaps they are there to stop Americans escaping.

      1. They’re going to invade and root out the last of the Vietnam draft dodgers before they are too old.

        1. Sounds like a plan. Those draft Dodgers have finished their productive work lives, let’s send them back before pension and health care costs become too high.

  81. DM Story

    Global CONDOM shortage is looming after world’s largest producer is forced to shut down factories due to coronavirus

    This should not present a problem for those who are faithful to their spouses and are postmenopausal or vasectomised.

    2. I am surprised that are not considered necessities in this strange era. Maybe the manufacturer could produce a full body version. Perhaps just have an eye slot and dye them black…

    3. Oh dear I have always been impressed with our NHS and how right up to 8pm last night, they have always managed to deal with the clap.

  82. Gove has grabbed centre stage; I thought Dominic Raab was second in command?

    I wouldn’t trust Gove as far as I could throw him; he’s got form …

  84. Some thoughts I have just emailed round to my staff:
    Remember the 3 Cs – Chances, Choices, Changes
    May the next few months be a time of magnificent transformation.

    1. 317456+ up ticks,
      Afternoon Bsk,
      Especially regarding the toxic trio lab/lib/con, radical pruning needed comprising of 650 snips.

  85. You couldn’t make it up………well you could and it probably might have been, but earlier today I heard two morons speaking one after the other on Vine’s radio 2 programme they both objected to the fact that people are walking their dogs. Massive chips on yer should boyz or probably far too thick to notice people walking their dogs before ‘the Chinese virus’ struck.

    1. There is a certain section of the population who are very anti-dog. Even Guide dogs.

      Probably because they can’t f*ck them as easy as goats and camels.

    2. There is so much conflicting advice. As most people will know, dogs have to be walked more than once a day. But people are only allowed out for exercise once a day. So if it’s a one-person household with a dog….?

      Police are apparently telling people not to drive to a place of exercise. But while in the car, the occupants do not pose a threat of infecting others, or of contracting the virus. When they get to the open space, it is very easy to maintain the ‘2-metre’ rule (my local parks are so empty most people do not come closer than about 50 yards). Some lawyers are saying that police have no right to ban people from driving (is your car journey necessary).

      What happens if you end up with a fine because some copper isn’t using common sense – refuse to pay and argue your case in court? If everyone did this, magistrates’ courts would be overwhelmed.

      1. Fortunately, my dog is accustomed to only having one walk a day. He certainly lets me know when he feels he’s being short-changed. I asked a friend to get me some milk today (she failed) and she reported that there were families shopping as though it were a holiday.

        1. Our dog has been trained not to do her business in the garden, so refuses to do so – therefore she has to go out. My wife is the dog-walker-in-charge, and takes the dog out 4 times a day!

      2. Police over-reaction caused by their Common Purpose training and following the CP manta of “Leading Beyond Authority”.

        1. I did actually piss myself after reading Riks plod joke. Had to have a shower and put the washing machine on. And mop the floor !

          His was funny…yours is a nightmare……….. 🙁

  89. Evening, all. Day 5 of my mission to manicure my garden within an inch of its life. I am slowly getting through my books, too. Started a new one today; “The Right of the Line” about the Battle of Britain. It’s good and thick so should last me a while, particularly if the weather turns nasty at the weekend and I resort to doing jigsaws to pass the time.

    2. I started a 1000 piece jigsaw of one of Monet’s waterlily paintings, at some point in mid February. It’s so fiendishly difficult, it’s going to last another two weeks at least, I reckon. It’s strangely relaxing once you get over the mental block of not actually producing anything useful.

  90. I don’t really see the big fuss about the Washington Examiner because Dr. Deborah L. Birx is the response coordinator for the White House and they are merely tweeting her updates which, on this occasion, featured Imperial College.

  91. I have never come across such a bunch of morons as some of those posting below. If you actually bothered to read the Imperial report you’d understand.

      1. I’ve posted it before and it is easy to find online and quite frankly I no longer give a shit about the ignorant trolls that have dominated the discussion on this subject since I flagged Polly’s misinformation. I’m wasting my time in the face of such stupidity.

        3. Here’s a tip, Andy.

          Calling folk who question your opinions “ignorant trolls” is not the way to win friends and influence people. You might want to tone it down a wee bit.

          2. They’re not questioning my opinions, they’re believing conspiracy websites.

        5. From the Imperial report; “For the first time since the outbreak began there have been no new confirmed cases caused by local transmission in China reported for five consecutive days up to 23 March 2020.”
          Did you read the Chinadaily article I posted in reply to you yesterday, or the day before, that China reported the annual death toll for influenza for the whole of China was 46 in 2016 and 51 in 2017? How can Imperial College London use statistics reported by China as part of their calculations without being suspect?

          4. So? It is using China’s tactics as an exemplar, when it is obvious that China’s previous health reporting is ridiculous.
            ” In response to the fast-growing epidemic, China imposed strict social distancing in Wuhan on 23 January 2020 followed closely by similar measures in other provinces. At the peak of the outbreak in China (early February), there were between 2,000 and 4,000 new confirmed cases per day. For the first time since the outbreak began there have been no new confirmed cases caused by local transmission in China reported for five consecutive days up to 23 March 2020. This is an indication that the social distancing measures enacted in China have led to control of COVID-19 in China.

          5. The researchers drew on evidence from all countries that have had outbreaks. Dismissing the report because you don’t accept one set of evidence is naive.

          6. But the Chinese data predates all others, and is weighted more than others because of that. Look at ‘worldometer’ stats for age, sex and pre-existing conditions, all based on Chinese stats.

          8. There’s a lot of data out there. Too much of the data is skewed by different countries’ health agencies using different criteria for cause of death. How that is gathered up and turned into reports is unreliable to my mind. I certainly wouldn’t put all my certainty eggs into one basket. Goodnight.

        6. I’m sure you did, but finding such a post in NTTL will take too long.
          I’d take a deep breath if I were you. Since this is computer modelling, the answers will depend on the input data always assuming the calculations are correct.
          I have too much experience of incorrect data and assumptions input to a model to take things at face value.
          And, as (Geoff??) wrote, nobody comes here for medical advice.
          Chill, man.

    3. “If you actually bothered to read the Imperial report you’d understand.”
      I don’t follow the Emperor’s ramblings that much.

    4. Calm down, Andy. No-one comes here for medical advice. For what it’s worth, on the basis of one of Polly’s posts, I’ve gone from thinking I was fairly invincible to worrying about the apparent connection between diabetes, ACE2 and Covid-19. And I’m grateful to her for flagging this up.So I’m being more careful than I otherwise would have been. Admittedly, it’s tricky. I’ve had all my shopping delivered since I had my legs trimmed, but I’m officially not entitled to have deliveries any more. I have a last Ocado delivery coming on Monday. After that, I’ll just have to walk the six mile round trip to Sainsburys, and risk the consequences.

      1. That is just awful, the terrible consequences of living in a tick-box culture. I was reading today of someone’s frail 93 year old mother (possibly I read it here in the Letters) who was being denied delivery because she did not meet the requirements. Her offspring had a 90 minute journey to visit her. At 93 years’ old one doesn’t have many friends left, let alone those who are in a position to help and further, local.

        Under the present circumstances I would be inclined to tick all the boxes regardless if in great need.

        1. Yes. That was in today’s Letters. I tried to register on the gov website, and was told in no uncertain terms by the computer that I didn’t qualify. Despite everything, I’m determined to get on with life. I’m out in the sticks, so either I walk 1.5 miles to the Nisa convenience store in the next village (and risk finding it closed, as I did the other day), or 3 miles to the nearest Sainsburys. It’s do-able, but it renders me fairly useless for the rest of the day. Alternatively, the milkman has some groceries available, at a price. So all is not lost. Won’t starve, and could do with losing a few pounds anyway…

        2. My Mother is 91. Just out of hospital. I live 4 hours by (non-existent) plane away. Being Wales, there’s no “vulnerable status” that can get any kind of priority delivery. Booked one for 16 April no more to be had.

          1. Pleased to hear she’s out, Paul. Hope it’s not too soon and that arrangements are in place for her care. Bloody difficult being locked down in Norway – I do sympathise.

        1. ‘It is if you’ve got the gout’

          (I’ve had a touch today, not bad, but enough to discourage me from going for my daily jaunt.)

          2. I’ve got a death wish. I woke up this morning with a touch of gout in my foot. Just enough to be a nuisance.

            You’ll know as well as me that there are foods to avoid, including pulses and meat stocks.

            So what did I do? I made some soup for the dinner using the stock from the chicken bones that I put in the Rayburn yesterday and a quarter of a packet of red lentils.

            Living on the edge. That’s me.

          3. No gout here, thankfully. No feet. Cramp – now that’s different. Should I awake in the middle of the night, in need of a call of nature, I’ll pull on a pair of kneepads, and head for the bathroom. No time to put the legs on. Sometimes, the cramp very nearly impedes my arrival at the Great White Telephone in time.

          4. Try half a glass of (low calorie) Indian tonic water before going to bed; apparently it prevents cramp.

        2. My gait leaves something to be desired, but anyone who accuses me of ‘hobbling’ will either have their lights punched out, or I’ll accept the lift they offer…

        1. Not on the NHS, Paul. I walked to Aldershot and back the other day, and – while my legs knew I’d done it – there were no lasting ill effects. Sainsbury’s are marginally nearer.

      4. Exactly you’ve ignored medical advice and now worry as a result of “advice ” from someone with no relevant qualifications. That could kill you.

        1. I’m not remotely worried. I’m taking further precautions. Partly because everyone I know says I should, and partly because Polly’s posts alerted me to the research which suggests that diabetes + ACE inhibitors + Ibuprofen may make one more susceptible to Covid-19. So I’m less invincible than I supposed I was.

          1. Have you checked this with your GP or just your mates and strangers on the internet who don’t know your medical history?

          3. I’m suggesting you don’t base decisions about meds on what you read online. If your GP agrees with Polly, great however I’m hoping he/she has paid attention to recent criticism of the social media fueled rumours seen here.

          4. Somehow I doubt any GP is going to say… ”Hey you know what, I agree with Polly”.

            They might say ”Hey, this looks kinda interesting, I think we should take this seriously” if you put the research of James Diaz, MD, MHA, MPH & TM, Dr PH, Professor and Head of Environmental Health Sciences at LSU Health New Orleans School of Public Health in front of them.

          5. Why would the average GP have any knowledge of this highly specialized research unless by chance they had read it ? They’re busy, especially now, they have very limited time for any one patient and they can’t be expected to know everything. GPs have anyway quite often been known to make mistakes.

          6. GPs do however know their patient’s medical histories which is why someone should always check with their GP before changing their meds.

          7. Yes. Did I say change meds ? No. I said long ago here’s the research. Looks like isolation is a good idea. I floated the idea of HMG block booking isolated hotels for those individuals who can’t isolate. Whether or not this is practical and could be made to work is another matter but it was just a thought.

            However, leaving the specified groups without the recommendation from February 28 to isolate as best as possible looks to me hugely negligent. In fact, even now, there is not one word from HMG to these groups to take extra special care.

          1. Did you not read the links I posted yesterday which urge caution about the claims?

          2. I agree with the BMJ, the Lancet and Professor Diaz. They all say it’s a possibility and with good reason. They advise caution in effect. Not changing drugs. They’re right. Therefore it’s obvious that the correct action on February 28 was to advise isolation to these groups as a precautionary measure.

            If HMG had done that, we might well be in a very different place with no lock down and far fewer fatalities.

            All you’re doing is rubbishing the research and rubbishing precaution.

        3. In what sense have I ignored medical advice? You’re getting hysterical. In the past, I’ve banned you for less, but in these extraordinary times, I’ll leave your posts as they are and let others make up their minds.

    5. Your supercilious, know it all, approach to this makes me sick.

      I worked as an internal auditor for 30 odd years. I was trained to question management and so called experts.

      Time and time and time agan, whistleblowers pointed out that management and the experts were lying; and deliberately obscuring the truth of what was happening under their watch. The NHS has dreadful form for cover-ups.

      Declare your interest here. How much do yo u earn as a % age of your total income that comes from selling the NHS what you want them to buy, either consultancy or product?

      I’ll bet you NEVER bite the hand that feeds you, let alone state that what you are selling isn’t actually what they need.

      NHS, the sacred cow that can never be questioned, but can be milked by all and sundry.

      1. Another irrelevant rant about the NHS from you. The subject being debated is the accuracy of a report by University researchers not the NHS.

        1. And, as usual, no real facts from you.

          That report has been challenged, and its author is rowing basck rapidly.

          Declare your interests here.
          My view is that you are a succubus, feeding off the NHS like a parasite, there’s no way you will question the host.

          1. Clearly you are actually stupid. The report author is not rowing back. Check his Twitter feed if you don’t believe me.

    6. There is no reason at all why anyone should not query the IC report. This isn’t North Korea. Dr Birx, White House coordinator, certainly appears to query it in her updates.

    7. You arrogant fool. You know no more than any of the rest of us and probably less. So called experts have often proven to be anything but in our history, no more so than in matters regarding health.

      1. I know as much about healthcare as you claim to know about architecture. In fact based on your posting about your net worth the other day, I’m better at my job than you were at yours.

        1. You are a very stupid individual. I believe you are trolling me. I know more about healthcare than you know about Architecture.

          Otherwise, you know nothing whatever about me and I care to know nothing whatsoever about you, you small insulting creep.

          Now finally get lost or I will tell you what I really think about you.

          2. You nothing whatever about me. You are a cringing liar. As I said I wish to know nothing whatever about you.

            I rather hope that given your threatening remarks that you will be banned permanently from this site. You are a nasty individual with nothing to offer other than some faux knowledge of the NHS where I am given to understand you have a contract to supply bog rolls.

            Go to work on your punctuation dolt.

          3. You run a minor architectural practice with your wife (or is it daughter). You never made it above associate. You design restaurants.

          4. I thought you were just someone on a bit of a mission, but posts like that are beneath contempt.

          6. You prat. You are nothing of worth and as it happens I am semi-retired. I will take legal advice about your accusations in due course.

            But given your frankly intendedly cruel and personal comments about me I think you, the ultimate creep, should get back into your woodwork. If you were brave enough to stand in front of me I would knock your lights out.

          7. You are a total non-entity. As I said you are trolling me but with no actual knowledge of my accomplishments. You are quite pathetic.

            Geoff: Please ban this idiot. He is a superfluous troll targeting me and entirely missing the target. He knows nothing of my work and achievements and continues to insult me. Enough is enough. If this site tolerates this bum I am quitting. There is no point if we are to be abused by this Cochrane piece of shit.

  92. So, now that Boris has caught it, I wonder whether he’ll think ‘Is that it? Is that all the panic is about?’ and immediately cancel the lockdown?

    1. On the other hand, he may no longer be in a position to think “Is that it?” Just supposing he is one of the unlucky ones – he is mid-to-late middle age, overweight/possibly obese with possible ‘underlying health problems’ such as hypertension and as such possibly taking Losartan, possible diabetes in view of his being overweight… Then what?

    2. Oh jeez another person who thinks he knows more than the experts. You actually deserve to catch it with stupid views like that.

  94. Phizzes Quizzes Time !

    I am on the South coast and lookin South to South West.

    A crystal clear night with a very bright Moon in eclipse with a bright Star above (Venus)…

    My question is…am i Russian?

    Please don’t take me Siriusly…………..that’s to the left.

    2. Put those funny cigs away. The moon’s not in Eclipse. You can only get them with a full moon, and it’s only three days past the new moon.

      1. I gave up the funny cigs yonks ago.

        The word i was looking for was ‘crescent’.

        And of course the Star above is actually a planet.

        Had a very nice day today. Nice sunshine and apparently because of the distance….wank circles are still permitted.

          3. What has happened?

            I know i can’t get someone to groom Dolly, so she is beginning to look like a Yeti, but i thought everything was as fucked up as normal…

    3. You’ve seen a heavenly body, but unless the planet Venus (by god you should have seen us) is transitioning, it is not a star.

  95. Q1 to Expert: Can you give any guidelines on taking exercise and driving to some country destination for this purpose?

    Expert: Well, really, it comes down to people applying common sense.

    Q2: Should the “applying common sense” advice also apply to the Police, or do they have a special exemption?

    1. ..and Mayor Khan for squeezing zillions of peeps into a small confined space on the tube, when it is deeply undesirable and unnecessary.

      2. It’s not ideal but I have some sympathy.

        How do you run a full service when 33% of your employees are off sick?

          1. Are you suggesting that the underground permanently has 33% of workers off sick?
            When conditions are normal the underground seems to work fine although at peak times you are crammed in like sardines in a tin.
            The real problem it seems on the underground is theft. late at night after a few drinks people often fall asleep to wake up and find their belongings gone.
            At Barnet there was a suicide a few weeks back. A bloke threw himself off the platform across the lines and fried before they could cut the power. There are also some problems with kids trespassing sometimes but in general trains run OK on the underground.
            The overground lines however are a whole different story. Trains run late, or get cancelled. There’s almost permanent ‘signal problems’. There’s an awful lot of trespassing on the lines. There’s supposed to be a train every 15 mins but you are lucky if there’s 2 in an hour.

    2. The Police are working to the principle of “Leading Beyond Authority” as per the Common Purpose songbook..

  96. I like Andy. I think he means well, and he’s fun to debate with. Hopefully both sides can learn something from the other.

          4. Grand Master Overlord Big Poobah of the Kingdom of Nottle is more appropriate i would say.

            What do we call you officially? Poo?

          9. Maybe a tad familiar?
            I work for a German company and they are very uptight with hierarchy. The top boss’ first name is Doctor… In Norway, previous company (5,000 employees), the CEO used to be called Sven, and was happy to answer to that.

    3. There are some narrow minds on here.

      I’ve known Andy since we debated on the DT years ago. Personally I like him and have never had a problem with him. He’s probably our best source of information for NHS-related issues.

      His comments should not be dismissed as garbage, they are often on the money.

    1. This is incorrect, I keep being told this virus is just like the flu, and they would have died anyway. Is it possible that message about the virus is just like the flu is wrong……….

      1. It appears to be far more contagious/infectious than ‘flu.

        It also appears either to give extremely serious outcomes, particularly in the case of those with underlying health problems; or pass relatively mildly.

        From a purely personal view, I doubt that any of the figures coming out for positive tests are actually representative. Lots of people appear to be carrying it asymptomatically and I doubt they are being tested until they finally show symptoms, whether they pass it on during the asymptomatic phase is unclear or whether they can have it and fully recover without showing sysmptoms is also unclear.

        There is no doubt that “standard” ‘flu is also doing the rounds, I am a case in point, I had all the symptoms of Covid-19 and eventually went down with pnuemonia. The hospital thought I had it and treated me accordingly, but I tested negative.

        I do not trust the Chinese figures in the slightest.

        1. There seems to be a conflicting picture about the virus. It’s certainly affecting the elderly more, but there are also a small number of cases of much younger people dying from it as well, without underlying illnesses.
          It’s said to be more transmissible than regular flu. It seems to be both worse and not as bad as regular flu. There are claims that a lot more people have been infected and shown no or mild symptoms only, while others have been very ill, and many of those have died.
          New York is currently said to be struggling with the number of cases that they have, with NY being the U.S. epicentre, not helped by politicians back in February and early March urging residents to carry on as normal, join in the Chinese New Year celebrations, etc….

          It doesn’t make sense yet. Maybe we’ll get a better picture when it’s over, when we know the real numbers (i.e. as real as we can get them, of course).

          1. Some figures I have seen also suggest that men are disproportionately affected.

            I am also fairly sceptical of the cases where it is claimed there are no underlying health issues.

            I believe that the virus is still “sticky” in blood and as a result fewer autopsies than normal will be carried out. Covid-19 will be blamed even if there is no absolute certainty that that was the case.

            What is clear is that even experts are contradicting each other, notwithstanding claims that they are all singing from the same songsheet.

          3. Is that Like Man Utd or Man City?

            Given the age distributions, I suspect that one reason will be that many of the over 70 men will have been working in heavy industry for much of their working lives and will have underlying lung and cardiovascular complaints as a result; which affects similar age women less, many of whom may have been stay at home mothers and housewives. Times have changed and I suspect that in younger cohorts the numbers will even out.

        2. Sorry Sos, I neglected to add a sarc meter to my comment.
          Not for one moment do I believe this virus to be just like the flu.
          There is nothing in your comment I disagree with, indeed I am mystified why some people still liken the consequences of this virus to the normal strain of flu which appears every winter.
          The normal flu in the winter occurs over a much longer time span which the NHS seems to cope with, this virus is as you say very contagious and will without doubt overwhelm our health system.

          1. I took your comment as valid, with or without /sarc.

            People need to question what is being said; blindly accepting “experts” and blindly decrying them does no good.

            In my case, I fear the blind accepters far more than the questionners.

  98. The road has been blocked (police notice and tape, like it was a crime scene) at Kit Hill, where I walk the dog, so that the car parks can’t be used. There are 3, holding perhaps up to 15 cars each. They are never full. I often do the perimeter walk and will see just 2 or 3 walkers the whole way.

      1. That’s basically what the council guy stationed there said. The same guy who was counting vehicles the other day.

    1. I’ve only looked at the ‘still’ picture, but it looks like she’s saying that the fishwife makes a fist of it and takes it up to here.

  101. I’m possibly the last on this site to know but Covid19 is on the list of notifiable diseases. Which means that anyone with a positive test for Covid19 who dies their death will have to record that designation on the death certificate. And as this article says there is a big difference between Covid19 causing death and it being found in someone who died of other causes.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/The-evidence-on-Covid-19-is-not-as-clear-as-we-think

    Interesting article.

    2. Covid-19 hasn’t killed anybody. It damages the lungs in such a way that bacterial pneumonia gets a hold. It’s the pneumonia that kills.

    3. Oh no, vouvray.! You mean when i have died of this i will still have to fill in even more forms ! Bluddy uncivil servants..

    4. MOH, with a long career in the NHS specialising latterly in the care of the elderly in nursing homes maintained that catching pneumonia was a kinder way of departing this world than dying from a multiplicity of long term painful conditions. In the case of the 76 year old doctor from Southend, he died within 24 hours of being admitted into hospital.

      Current medicine has however become very efficient at keeping younger people alive who would otherwise be dead
      I am one of them – with 48hrs to live through heart failure I was turned around in a week on the cardiac unit and put on five medications.
      I know from previous experience that withdrawal from these medications is likely to prove very serious with a high risk of mortality.

      However if I should die after my drugs have run out having proved positive for COVID-19 would my cause of death be drug withdrawal, COVID-19 or pneumonia post viral infection?

      1. Covid 19, I believe, because it’s a notifiable disease would be the cause of death. That may insure TPTB can claim they were right all along. This is now pure politics.

        1. It would be listed on the death certificate, but it wouldn’t necessarily be as the primary cause.

      2. I think that “in the old days” pneumonia was regarded as a blessed relief. Sometimes, as in the case of desperately those prematurely born, babies are kept alive due to medical advances (?experimentation) but, of course, that’s how medicine has developed over the years.

        Glad that you’re still here Angie. Hence the name? And yes, COVID will be on a death cert. in the circumstances you mention.

      4. I’ve had pneumonia. i can tell you the pain is intense. I was in tears. I felt like I had a knife in my chest that was being slowly turned in the wound. I would not call it a kind way to go. I’ve never felt pain like it before or since.

        1. You do realise do you not that people who have experienced it and survived would be dubious of your claims…………..

          Tears lol…..

          1. I was in agony. I’ve never felt pain like it. I only had it in my right lung. Took about 3 weeks to get rid of completely and I spent 10 days in real pain. Perhaps I don’t deal with pain all that well, not something that’s really been tested, but that time was the most pain I’ve ever felt.

  103. Oh Dear Oh Dear

    Accusations of lies,falsehoods and conspiracy theories……………..

    “The UK should now be able to cope with the spread of the covid-19 virus, according to one of the epidemiologists advising the government.

    Neil Ferguson at Imperial College London gave evidence today to the

    UK’s parliamentary select committee on science and technology as part of

    an inquiry into the nation’s response to the coronavirus outbreak.

    He said that expected increases in National Health Service capacity and ongoing restrictions to people’s movements

    make him “reasonably confident” the health service can cope when the

    predicted peak of the epidemic arrives in two or three weeks. UK deaths

    from the disease are now unlikely to exceed 20,000, he said, and could

    be much lower.”

    Obviously anyone publishing these dangerous fantasies should never be believed,in fact they should be closed down.right Andy??

    Ergghh that’ll be the New Scientist

    https://www.newscientist.com/article/2238578-uk-has-enough-intensive-care-units-for-coronavirus-expert-predicts/
    Edit
    It appears Andrew Neil and the Times are for the chop too
    https://twitter.com/afneil/status/1243174658465284096

    1. But Ferguson will argue that the reason things look so much better is because the Government did as his team suggested.

      I seem to recall that it was an Imperial team, possibly under Ferguson, who called the Foot and Mouth crisis and measures followed their recommendations, which resulted in 100’s of thousands of healthy animals being slughtered and burned on huge pyres.

      1. Yep and slaughtered incompetently, too. Chasing livestock round a field and firing at them isn’t humane in my book.

  105. To All Mods,

    If the idiot Andy Cochrane is allowed to further insult me and denigrate my opinions (and others) without censure I am off.

    Sort it or cheerio!

    1. Please don’t do that and let him win. That’s probably what he was aiming to do. Don’t let him win.

    2. Just block him Cori – it’s what I do, both to him and the silly parrot.

      The other thing is, if everyone just ignores him, he’ll die for lack of the oxygen of anyone taking him seriously.

      1. I had blocked him, but in the interests of solidarity during our nation’s (and internations’) times of strife I had unblocked him. Sadly I will be blocking him once again, I can do without this hassle at this time. Everyone’s stress and anxiety levels have risen.

        1. He’s a clown and just wants to get peoples’ backs up – it gives him some sort of delusion of power – well, I’m advocating removing that power from him, now and in future incarnations.

    3. Please don’t go – you would be greatly missed.

      Bill Thomas and Grizzly allowed themselves to be upset and I, like many of us, miss both of them greatly. I have known Bill in ‘real life’ for over thirty years and Grizzly and I have exchanged comments on both the DT and the Nottlers sites for several years.

      The former Conservative MP and Old Blundellian, Michael Mates, received quite a bit of MSM interest when he sent a friend of his a message and a present with the message:

      DON’T LET THE BUGGERS GET YOU DOWN.

      Sound advice I think.

    4. I think that we should all be able to accept the opinions of others. Most on this site are like minded but I read other views and make my own judgements. Andy C appears to have some experience in the field of health care and I welcome his input. At times, the discussion might get emotional but the scroll key is always there.

    5. Cockroach is a complete twonk. Block him and stay. You have many insights that i and others value because it comes from knowing not from in his case a shit stirring ignorance and rabble rousing pile of puss.

  106. Sweden cracks down on public gatherings, ditching ‘light touch’ strategy. 27 March 2020.

    Sweden’s government has moved to ban gatherings of more than 50 people, bringing the country’s previously light-touch coronavirus strategy closer to that of its European peers.

    “This not simply public advice, this is a strict ban from the government,” the country’s interior minister Mikael Damberg said at a press conference announcing the decision, which comes into force on Sunday.

    Well this has put a crimp in my earlier post about Sweden’s laissez faire attitude to CV, though 50 seems a somewhat generous gathering. Perhaps they’ve had an epiphany!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/03/27/sweden-cracks-public-gatherings-ditching-light-touch-strategy/

    1. They have suddenly realised that this it affects them, as well as others… It is, unlike their other problems, no longer in suburbs they can avoid. CV is up, close and now very, very, personal.

    2. Can’t you just picture it ………..

      Poliskommisarie: “Larsson. arrest that crowd!”

      Polisinspektör Larsson: “But there are only forty-nine of them, min herre?”

      Poliskommisarie: “Skit! Well, wait a few minutes – a stray passer-by is bound to come along, then we’ll have ’em.”

    3. I wonder if Sweden’s original strategy was based on killing as many native Swedes off as possible so they could be more easily replaced by the New Swedes?

  107. I got stopped by plod on the way to work today:

    “Where are you going sir?”
    “I’m off to work.”
    “And is your work essential?”
    “Yes”
    “Can’t do it from home?”
    “No”
    “What do you do for a living?”
    “I’m an arsehole stretcher.”
    “A what?”
    “An arsehole stretcher.”
    “What does that involve?”
    “Well,
    it is quite simple. You take an arsehole, any type will do, then you
    insert a finger and start wiggling it around until you can get two
    fingers in, then carry on from there.”
    “How big does the arsehole get?”
    “Six feet, or more.”
    “Six feet! What do you do with a 6ft arsehole?”
    “Well, you give them a uniform and some emergency powers so they can stop people getting to work on time.”

    1. You made me laugh so hard my butt plug shot across the room and hit Dolly on the nose !… 🙁

  112. From the Imperial College report, Summary section:
    We estimate that in the absence of interventions, COVID-19 would have resulted in 7.0 billion infections and 40 million deaths globally this year.
    Some points immediately jump out.
    1 the world population according to https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/ is 7.8 billion. So, pretty well everybody would be infected in 2020 if no action is taken
    2 the expected fatality rate would be 0,6% (40m/7b)
    3 the same link shows expected deaths based on historical data to be about 56 million (14+ million to date over 3 months)

    So, based on their modelling and, as far as I can tell without access to their references, only one paper with infection statistics (I’m guessing these to be Chinese, but don’t know for sure), if we do nothing, pretty well everybody in the world will be infected, and the death rate will be double that usually found.

    I am surprised that they do not comment on their input data, as this is key to their findings. Bias, misreporting and fraud would likely have a significant effect on the predicted outcome. Likewise, with such an important study, I would expect a sensitivity analysis of the input data to be carried out, but this has not been reported. I have emailed Neil Ferguson to ask about these two points, and await a reply.

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