Friday 10 November: Double standards over the vitriol on display at pro-Palestinian marches

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its commenting facility (now reinstated, but we prefer ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here.

590 thoughts on “Friday 10 November: Double standards over the vitriol on display at pro-Palestinian marches”

  2. SIR – Participating in a pro-Palestinian march does not indicate a
    person’s political position. For many of us, the marches are a chance to
    show solidarity with the ordinary people of Gaza. In my book, that is
    humanitarian.

    Clare Gardner
    Sheffield, South Yorkshire

    Take a look around you, Clare. A good look at the people protesting with you. What do you see? People concerned with the death of innocents or people baying for more…

    1. Point taken – slaughter the Palestinians – they don’t know when they’re well off and always want more.

    3. Ignorance will be the death of us. I was actually shocked by the news snippet posted by sosraboc, that many of the marchers don’t even know about the Palestinian massacre in Israel.

    4. If she must march for the Palestinians she must march for them to be freed from Hamas and then take the two state solution that Israel has so often offered.

  3. Continuity of care

    SIR
    – As an NHS GP for 35 years, it distresses and concerns me that we hear
    such frequent stories of very unwell patients battling to be taken
    seriously and get the help they need, especially if their symptoms are
    not clear cut.

    A major factor in this is the difficulty in getting
    a timely appointment with the GP. But equally important, I think, is
    the lack of continuity, with patients often seeing a different doctor
    every time they attend a surgery. The doctor, therefore, often doesn’t
    know the patient, so doesn’t recognise when they are not their usual
    selves.

    Some time ago, a patient of mine who I had known for years
    – a sprightly 79-year-old – came for a routine blood-pressure check.
    She mentioned that a few days earlier she’d found herself naked on her
    bedroom floor and couldn’t work out why. I asked if anything else
    unusual had happened recently, any infection or accident. She said that
    about four weeks ago she had tripped in the street and hit her head.

    I persuaded a reluctant A&E surgical registrar (unimpressed by the
    symptoms and her age) to do an urgent computerised tomography scan of
    her head, which revealed a large subdural haematoma. It was only because
    I knew her well that I was able to recognise that her symptoms were
    quite abnormal for her.

    Dr Fiona Underhill
    Woodford Green, Essex

    A point i have made on this forum and also raised as a complaint to the practice and also to Suella Braverman my MP. The response from the practice was that they were sorry that my expectations were not met.

    Ms Braverman has a more direct approach. Which i appreciate more than semantics from non medical seat polishers trying to deflect and to protect their profitable business.

    1. It’s a shame that your MP is likely about to be defenestrated. She should cross the floor to Reform. Or Reclaim. Or the Raving Monster Loony Party, if that’s all that is on offer…

      1. BTL she has a lot of support on the DT. Interestingly the Daily Mail BTL all sound like Nottlers on most subjects too.
        I think i need to get out more. Or at least once before i scream the house down.
        Don’t suppose you are near Gunwharf any time soon.

    2. I too am prone to unexpected falling – low blood pressure – and have to be bluddy careful where I am in the flat. that’s why a bungalow with knowledgeable neighbours is so hard to find and why a companion will certainly help us both. I will look out for her and she looks out for me. Is that so impossible?

    3. I haven’t seen the same GP twice in my various attempts to get health problems sorted. One GP did request an MRI scan and was told I could only have X rays! No rationing there, then!

  4. Built-up bungalows

    SIR – Many pensioners would like to live in a bungalow (report, November 8) but lots of these homes are now being bought and extended upwards.

    The elderly are encouraged to downsize from their large and underused
    houses. However, the thought of moving into a row of bungalows that are
    then gradually purchased for upward conversion – so that they overlook
    your garden – is a deterrent.

    It should not be permitted to extend bungalows upwards.
    Roger Rashleigh
    Epsom, Surrey

    I wonder if Roger from Surrey knows anything about the subject personally. Pensioners, the elderly, being overlooked, should not be permitted.
    Sounds like just the sort of busy body that we don’t have in our row of bungalows.

    1. I have a young lady (Julie) who is looking for just such for me in Annan (Google it) so that I might escape this lonely existence in Moffat (Google that as well). I hate the loneliness here..

          1. Take your Radio Amateur’s Exam, get a licence, some gear and an antenna and you’ll find somebody, somewhere in the world, always ready to have a QSO.

      1. Hi back, it’s 23mins past 8pm. Just finished dinner and having a final look at the news.

        1. Gosh. Can’t get my head around time zones when there is no lag.

          Don’t bother with the news…tell me what you had for dinner !

          1. Shrimp, with orzo risotto with feta cheese sprinkled over the top, with a few chopped up tomatoes for colour. Pinot Grigio for the wine, we enjoy our food and wine….cheers!

          2. I’m reporting you to the food police ! Feta with shrimp! How very dare you.
            Sounds nice actually.

            I tend to use wine in my cooking quite a lot. It annoyed my sister a lot because she only wanted to drink it but i would pour a whole bottle into a stock and reduce it.
            I have a rack of beef ribs marinading and that did take a whole bottle !

          3. Don’t get all shirty with me, it’s a legitimate Greek recipe, so there!! It should have had some olives in but I had run out of them. Anyway, have to go, give the pooches a hug, g’night from me, take care. Oh, when are you having the rack of ribs…..

          4. Glad it’s Greek. The Italians would have you up on charges!
            The rack needs to marinate for at least 24 hours so who knows when.

            What kind of Feta can you get where you are?
            No need to answer straight away.
            Good night. The dogs are both snoring their heads off so i’ll leave them be.

          5. I’m saving Lamb Shanks (x 2) from our butcher at the bottom of Well Street, but I need to find the time to marinate and them slow cook them (5 hours in rosemary, lamb stock, thyme and basil). sound OK?

          6. I’ve just set up a wine rack with 4x Merlot (should have been French Malbec but the order was mis-read) ! x Whyte And Mackay and 2 x Singleton (highly guarded)

            The Merlot will be good in the Lamb Shank stock – probably a bottle or at at least a half.. I have two shanks so if anyone wants an invite tom.hunn@gmail.com.

          7. Just put the Lamb Shank in to marinate in Merlot with Rosemary. Thyme, Basil, Very lazy garlic (vkg), Bay leaf. Will add a very light pinch of crushed chillies for the last hour. (Add a little fire).

            Please remind me!

            Chillie flakes added.

          10. Well done that girl. Enjoy your food and slurp down the wine – 02:15 here in UK GMT (Greenwich Mean Time) but you know that. We have to keep our transatlantic differences. Any young ( 75 – 85) ladies I could be introduced to – I need a companion to share my lonely Scottish Borders life?

  7. Good morrow, Gentlefolk. today’s story
    Appreciate What You’ve Got

    A man goes to the doctors complaining that he can’t “get it up” and hasn’t been able to for many years now.

    So after a quick check-up the doctors tells the man to come back next week with his wife. Next week, they are both in front of the doctor.

    The doctor tells the man to step outside whilst he checks out his wife. He asks her to undress and lie on the bed.

    He then asks her to shake her bottom a bit.

    Then he asks her to put some fingers in her vagina. Then, finally, the doctor tells her to get dressed, and he steps outside to speak with her husband.

    “So what’s the problem, Doc?”

    “Well, as far as I can tell, there’s nothing wrong with you. She doesn’t turn me on, either!”

  9. Double standards over the vitriol on display at pro-Palestinian marches

    Is there an unwritten rule in politics and the media that when something is blatantly obvious that nobody is allowed to mention it?

  10. Good grief, chums, it’s three minutes to 7 am and I’m 35th to post today! Anyhow, I slept much better last night and got up at around 5.45 am. I wish you all a good morning and a good day for today.

  11. My manifesto to beat the globalists. 10 November 2023.

    As a start, however, I offer this manifesto for non-compliance. I am sure the list can be expanded.

    Defund the BBC.

    Do not watch Sky News or ITN.

    Do not listen to radio news propaganda.

    Do not buy electric vehicles.

    Do not buy heat pumps.

    I have to confess that in recent musings on the subject (prompted by an exchange with WatTylersGhost) that I agree with the top choice. It would be quick, cheap and popular. You could sack everyone with immediate effect and board up Broadcasting House on the first day! It would take only a week or so for the naysayers to discover that other sources of drivel exist. The benefit of saving £159 would take a little longer but not be unappreciated in the long term.

    https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/my-manifesto-to-beat-the-globalists/

    1. The most important thing is refusing the digital id.
      But that’s what most people won’t spot – they will be told to use it to buy Chinese tat on the internet, so they will obediently sign up for it in droves.

  12. Good morning all.
    Off to pick the replacement van up today and having a night away as well. Plan going the scenic route, stopping for breakfast at Asfordby, then carrying on via Oakham, Peterborough and Ely.

    After heavy overnight rain, it’s damp, but not raining at the moment with a tad above 1°C.

          1. About 15 years ago, when Caroline was driving the Rover 200 we had then, a car suddenly turned right and hit her amidships. The cost of the repair would have bee £2,200 – the insurance company offered us £2,000 write off value. We took the £2,000 and put it towards the cost of a brand new Fiat Panda which we still have and Caroline loves.

        1. I wish it were that easy, Paul. Frighteningly expensive and I doubt I’ll get the council to pay the difference. You must have experienced this with your Mama.

          1. Indeed, the council will only contribute when she’s used up all her money. Fortunately, Father laid down a surprisingly good pensions portfolio, so for the moment, expenditure is about the same as her income.

  14. ‘Queers for Palestine’ must have a death wish. 10 November 2023.

    For all their zaniness, surely not even purple-haired, post-gender activists would take to the streets, Pride flag in hand, to champion a country that would jail them, if they’re lucky, and bump them off if they’re not.

    But it’s not a joke. These people are real. This is where wokeness has taken us – to a situation where the young of the West are throwing their lot in with a regime that would throw them from a top-floor given half a chance.

    This gives something of an insight into the mentality of these people and explains their acceptance of trans-rights etc. Essentially they are stupid. They would on the accession of Islamic Supremacy face the same fate as the “Jews for the Fuhrer” movement met in pre-war Germany.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/09/queers-for-palestine-must-have-a-death-wish/

    1. Probably a good idea to bump them off. Saves us a lot of ‘Woke’ LGBTQ nonsense in the future.

  15. 378650+ up ticks,

    Morning Each,

    Like it or not, Suella speaks for the silent majority
    Sacking the Home Secretary won’t win the Tories one extra vote. She is more useful inside the tent than outside

    If her stance is truly genuine and she sides with the decent peoples ALL well and good BUT, you do not get the shout in the tory (ino) cartel if you have not a high treachery rating.

    The whole party is like Maggie Mays drawers torn & tattered and as reality shows, fit to be cast asunder.

    That means one down down, leaving two to go. before a decent peoples re-build can take place.

    My thoughts are this coming week-end will be a corner stone in revealing how the future is going to shape up.

  17. Abducted Ukrainian teen faces conscription into Russian army. 10 November 2023.

    A 17-year-old Ukrainian orphan abducted from Mariupol faces conscription into the Russian army, his lawyer has warned, as the Kremlin searches for fresh recruits.

    Bogdan Ermokhin will turn 18 on Nov 19 and has already received a notice to report to the Russian military in December.

    BELOW THE LINE.

    Arthur Dodds.

    Please start reporting this war in some kind of balanced way. All but the wilfully blind know the recruitment crisis rests with the Ukrainian military with mass abductions of teenagers off the street to be sent to killing fields of Bakhmut and Adveevka . Meanwhile many thousands of Russians are volunteering for service every month. This is one of the key reasons why Ukraine is losing this conflict. The DT stories are now desperate in their efforts to avoid the painful truth about this awful conflict. History will be a harsh judge of this coverage.

    The young man in question was evacuated from a war zone and now being a Russian citizen is eligible for military service. Mr Dodds comment has become all too prevalent on the Telegraph threads which probably explains the limiting of the comments to eleven examples. It looks as though the editor has decided on this in preference to just closing down the comments section which has led to some hostile criticism online.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/11/09/abducted-ukrainian-teen-conscription-russian-army/

  18. Good morning, all. Terribly late. Dreadful sleepless night – ended by dropping off at 7 am.

    Still got the knives out for the Buddhist, I see.

    2. That’s awful. Eat something, then try going back to bed before lunch?
      Sometimes works for me.

  19. Good morning.
    Ignoring the sexist illustration, which will probably raise your blood pressure more than the content of the article….
    Perhap’s we’re gonna have more sympathy now.
    https://news.yahoo.com/hearing-bad-grammar-causes-physical-080033360.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuY29kZXByb2plY3QuY29tLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAALHLf88pfIHf2BJ-bonon-yUUXyxPBxAwCmPkw3TlCQt5UM7NIOR_7r67I-u19HJrB8jn0xpw7VoVuSVVagvlrHguUwyXBijoZ7PlL9tmjoo6M0asgcH2I-xbb3KqJgz2LxErDUAVJgPSCp-9MJVlWYFA_VXrPMSSUOgrhbRdWz_

    2. So, the mob would have you believe that Braverman is wrong about the police and they way they deal with protesters – a quick review of policing methods at BLM/JSO etc versus the reaction to anti lockdown protests shows she is entirely right! I see the rhyming slang Chancellor has refused to back her and the No 10 team are slithering away as well.

  21. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12732731/Police-Armistice-Day-ring-steel-Met-protests.html

    The country’s most senior police officer said the protest, which is expected to draw in 70,000 people, could only be banned if there was a ‘real threat’ of serious disorder.
    This was despite fears of violent clashes between the marchers and Right-wing activists. The rally’s organisers had already rebuffed the Met’s pleas to postpone.

    One wonders what a ‘real threat’ of serious disorder. must be, looking at the previous experience of these protest/solidarity marches and given this:

    The Met are set to form a ‘ring of steel’ to quash any hint of trouble around this week’s Remembrance events amid fears of a pro-Palestine protest clashing with the Armistice Day parades.
    Police chiefs have cancelled leave, extended overtime and drafted in 1,000 more officers from across Britain to reinforce their ranks.
    And senior public order officers are set to give orders to immediately clamp down on any criminality or violence.

    1. “And senior public order officers are set to give orders to immediately clamp down on any criminality or violence.”
      That will be those violent old men and women who’ve spent their careers defending this country.
      Why DID they bother?

  23. G’day all,

    Dark, heavy skies and rain at the McPhee’s, wind all around the compass, 7℃ – 8℃.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/266802810ba0e1979f10984a41c960559a634b152a46c8d446b1b6c43461491c.png

    Don’t let this distract you. We are being played again.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/11/09/rishi-sunak-faces-calls-to-sack-suella-braverman/

    Comments generally favour Braverman.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/c007bf52bbe54ae2dd70a525b67945aecadb35b8ca75002f7daac20d59a5c38d.png

    1. ‘On Thursday, No 10 said the prime minister has “full confidence in her”.‘ BBC

      So that’s her gone then.

    2. If these are the full facts and it was a one-off offence.

      ‘The details: forgetting that his 26-30 railcard had expired the previous month, he bought a discounted ticket from Grange-over-Sands to Lancaster (the full price of the fare was £7.90, he paid £5.27).
      ‘When the ticket inspector pointed out his error, he bought a digital railcard on the spot and offered to pay the diff between the two fares.
      ‘The inspector said no, demanded his address and said he’d be required to provide a written explanation. This was in June, he never received a request for explanation, forgot about it.
      ‘Please explain why this is a good use of public resources.’

      Whatever the outcome may be, the ticket inspector and the person who took the decision to prosecute should be required personally to pay all the legal fees involved.

      1. I would hope the Magistrate would hold those who brought the case in contempt and had them dragged before him.

          1. Just like with benefit fraud a lot of fines go unpaid. The government agency is swamped so they just let it slide. All they have to do is move to another rental and the agency gives up.

    3. Bet he checks the expiry date on his bank cards and his passport. Having said that, the railcard firm could have sent a reminder by SMS and email.

      1. I don’t recall the railcard reminding me when mine was up. I just let it lapse because I’d given up travelling by train post covid.

      1. 378650+ up ticks,

        Afternoon Mir,

        Where money mills are concerned, I would think not
        The bears look pretty but a money mill scamming payoff makes a bank account look a darn sight prettier.

    1. Ratner set a trend which many have followed – deliberately destroying your business is now a fashionable and cunning publicity ploy.

      1. Ratner made a joke – his enemies turned it into a gaff. He is still a rich and successful business man (speaker). He was born into a Jewish family and sold jewellery at an affordable price, undercutting the prevailing market . . . nothing to do with his ridicule and attempted ruination – of course!

    2. Ratner set a trend which many have followed – deliberately destroying your business is now a fashionable and cunning publicity ploy.

  29. Morning folks….

    “Put bluntly, these people lie, but do it in a way that would impress even a politician. In one of the many times I was pestered this year by a mainstream reporter asking why a nice “scholar” like DiResta should be prevented from “just doing research,” I asked him to go back and find out what academic credentials qualified her for “scholar” status (she’s listed as a “research manager”), and to cite another type of “research” that involves flagging content for removal of speech on behalf of an intelligence agency. As my podcast partner Walter Kirn puts it, Stanford’s Observatory is the first one in history that destroys planets.

    I asked the same reporter why non-doctors should be allowed to police the scientific opinions of MDs and PhDs, why publicly funded programs targeting the speech of voters should be exempt from FOIA requests, and so on, but it’s hopeless. In the new world, brazen enough scams are respected, those who don’t fall for them become the outlaws, and we all have to get used to it.’

    https://www.racket.news/p/the-tragic-victimhood-of-disinformation

  30. Morning all.

    The rain belted down last night .
    Moh woke up early, 06.30, let Pip into the garden , still raining , dried the spannel, who then dashed upstairs with wet feet and jumped all over me. !

    We had our coffee and porridge , with blueberries and flax seed scattered on top , and then Moh went upstairs , reappeared 30 minutes later with his golf kit on , thermals etc .. I was shocked .. What about the rain … oh there will be a clearance soon !

    He picked up his recharged battery for his golf trolley , and other bits and pieces , his bottle of squash drink, a banana, and off he went .

    Sitting where I am, looking out of the windows , there is a clearance , blue sky, sunshine , breeze . I just hope the course isn’t waterlogged .

    1. There’s nothing worse than playing golf in the rain.
      One Sunday morning in what was known as the Swindle. I’d left my umbrella at home it started to rain about 9 holes in. One of our opponent’s had two umbrellas. I asked him if I could borrow it. My golf partner and I were heading for a substantial victory and before we had finished the last hole he asked for the umbrella back.
      A senior banker. I hope I spelt that correctly. There is an old joke about bankers and umbrellas. They’ll lend you one when the sun is out and ask for it back when it’s raining.
      A True story.

      1. “The rain it raineth on the just
        And also on the unjust fella;
        But chiefly on the just, because
        The unjust stole the just’s umbrella.”

        1. Yes I wondered how he managed to have a spare in his bag.
          But Martin and I thrashed him and his partner. Who I felt sorry for.

    2. Actually – apart from the fact that Moh would return home and be getting under your feet – I would relish the course being water logged.

  31. The BBC’s rabid antisemitism has currently reached boiling point. This morning’s news was headed by a fifteen minutes diatribe against the Home Secretary for criticizing the Met police decision to allow the ‘hate marches’ on Remembrance Day. If you listen very carefully, the Radio 4 News Gaultier, Nick NobRobinson, a man who speaks through his nose and his a*rse at the same time, can be heard muttering ‘Seig Heil’ every seven seconds. It is long pst the time for a complete closure of the Beeb and its worldwide Bolshevik/LGBT propaganda gulags.

    Defund/smash/eliminate the BBC!

  32. Strong public interest in prosecuting those who cause unrest at pro-Palestine protests. Stephen Parkinson. 10 November 2023.

    Authorities will ensure that law is applied firmly, fairly and swiftly so transgressors are brought to justice quickly.

    This from the leader of an organisation (Crown Prosecution Service) that is a byword for bias and incompetence. One knows without being told that the people most likely to be arrested at this protest will be those suspected of being “far-right!” sympathisers.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/11/09/strong-public-interest-prosecuting-unrest-pro-palestine-pro/

    1. I expect a lot of the protesters would look up and give smiley waves to armoured microlights appearing on the horizon if they were trailing rainbow flags.

      One can hope.

    2. That’ll be the “far Right” – aka people who love this country and tend to be predominantly a little wan of visage.

  33. I liked this letter.

    Comfort smoking
    SIR – I am a retired GP and have smoked a pipe since experiencing a nervous problem aged 31 (Comment, November 7).

    I am now over 80 and doubt that I would have survived to this age without the distraction and comfort provided by my pipe.

    Banning smoking could lead to a worse addiction. Beware the law of unintended consequences.

    Dr John Taylor
    Alderley Edge, Cheshire

    I can remember pipe smoking uncles and boyfriends , including one of my primary school teachers , Mr Garnham , who was a fierce disciplinarian.
    After he had thrown the black board rubber at a pupil, he would light up his pipe , I think it soothed him, he stank the classroom out .
    One of my uncles also used to sniff snuff , do people still sniff snuff?

    My aunt used to complain about the stain that snuff left on handkerchiefs.

    1. I tried snuff once, it was absolutely foul. I must have been about 18 at the time.
      HG’s uncle insisted I try it, so I dutifully sniffed up the proffered “dose”. Apart from its disgusting stink it had no effect whatsoever, much to his surprise. He tried again, larger dose, same result. Never again.

      I gathered later that he thought it would amusing to watch my sneezing fit.

      Oddly enough, I get hay fever badly and sometimes have sneezing fits of a dozen or more atishoos, perhaps my antihistamine prevented the snuff taking effect.

    2. Both my mother and father smoked.
      Dad smoked his pipe for years, as seen in old photos and those of when he was in the RAF. Mother smoked senior service. We couldn’t see across our lounge/living room for the smoke. None of us, my two sisters and my self spent much of our time smoking. I suppose in a way that was a good thing.

      1. Mine both smoked – though I don’t remember my father smoking, but my mum always did. She chain smoked after he died, but cut down a lot in later life.

        1. It was sort of trendy to smoke when we were younger. I only smoked after dinner or out for a few pints.
          I chucked my last packet in a blazing fire at my in-laws, about 50 years ago. Luckily it was never a habit.

          1. The only time I ever tried smoking was a puff in the bushes as a kid. It made me cough and put me off for life.

          2. My Dad smoked Churchman’s No1 which were near the top of the tar ratings. He died of lung cancer aged 54. I was 11. It didn’t stop 8 of us 12 siblings taking up the habit. I switched to roll ups in 1981 and only used about 4-5 a day, always at night and never at work. I gave up completely overnight in 1991.

      2. My mother smoked for most of my childhood and adolescence. My father never smoked at all. He died at 68, she lasted until 90! I don’t smoke and have had maybe only two or three goes at smoking a cigarette in my student days. Never liked it.

        1. Still legal to sell it. Available on Amazon. Normal use is for the catering industry for aerating cream.

    4. I gave up smoking cigarettes at midnight on December 31st 1987 – I got married in April 1988.

      I smoked a pipe until last May when my supply of Duty Free pipe tobacco ran out. However, I have kept one tin back which I shall enjoy smoking in my library over the Christmas holidays and then that will be that.

      The difference between cigarettes and a pipe for me is that I am addicted to cigarettes and it has to be all or nothing. I love my pipe but I can take it or leave it.

        1. Sucking on an empty pipe would be like a eunuch trying to have sexual intercourse – it would get him nowhere and only bring him frustration and disappointment.

    5. I wonder… I had a long conversation with my sister last night; she is a district nurse in the Netherlands. She is suffering from a mild form of PTSD after having been attacked several times in the last year by some of her “clients” and is needing medical treatment for this.

      Her contention is that in the old days people – the kind that she has to deal with, that is – used to smoke a bit of pot and withdrew from society; if they got angry they’d kick a wall or upset a table. Now the same people are taking drugs that I’ve never heard of and hate society, and therefore also hate people who represent that society like the district nurse, whom they subsequently attack.

      Maybe if they gave all these people a pipe to smoke, that might help alleviate the tension?

      1. I could never understand why people would attack ambulances and medics. As you say these people represent a stable society and become targets of the drug deranged. I would suggest your friend do agency work and choose which ‘customers’ she deals with.

        2. As I said, this is the Netherlands… and very differently organised from either England or France. My sister has never talked about any private agencies who do the kind of work she does.

          Bizarrely, even though she has now been attacked and severely threatened in the last year, my sister actually enjoys dealing with the fringes of society. She has set up a local charity for the homeless; she is the one the county services call on when there are difficult conversations to be had with peculiar people, because she is so pretty and smiling that they take it from her and not from anyone else! But her employers know that outside that gentle exterior there is an inner core of toughness and she will not hesitate to stand up for herself or for others. She is fiercely loyal to her family, her friends and the causes she espouses.

          Her employer has agreed to pay for her PTSD treatment (not available on the Dutch equivalent of the NHS for employees of government services!), as it is obviously work-related. We’ll see how the treatment goes, but at the moment she is starting to think about early retirement and even moving house, which is terribly sad as she’s only recently moved in with her most recent husband.

    6. One of the things about pipe-smokers as I recall was that they tended to spend more time fiddling with the pipe than actually smoking it.

  34. Morning all 🙂😊
    Morning precipitation exuding from the grey mass.
    Double standards is typical of anything our government carries out.
    I understand that they have ‘shipped in’ thousand police officers to control the slammer extravaganza tomorrow. I don’t think that’s enough. We have been told they will keep away from Whitehall and the cenotaph. But I don’t believe that will be possible as it lessens the proposed impact of their demonstration.which should have been made illegal. Now the British taxpayers will have fork out several million pounds instead of just the free lunches and expenses for the self important attendees.
    Once again, thank you government, for keeping up your well known standards. Effing up everything you come into contact with.

      1. Its probably what the slammers want. But I imagine they are running out of virgins with all the death in Gaza.

  35. Are we witnessing the break-up of the Conservative Party?
    The Braverman drama is indicative of a party that knows it faces a choice of defeat – or annihilation
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/11/09/are-we-witnessing-break-up-of-conservative-party/

    BTL

    I know that Nigel Farage is ‘Marmite’ – loved or loathed.

    But if Tice stood down and allowed Farage to become Reform’s leader that would be game over for the Conservative Party.

    The problem is that Nigel Farage now prefers journalism to politics and who can blame him?

    Let’s face it, there are very few journalists as good as he is.

    Of course you could argue that the Conservative Party deserves to be annihilated and as Farage could destroy it far more effectively than Starmer it is his duty to do so!

    1. The very fact that Farage is even THINKING of doing television knockabout shows that he is completely unsuited to any role in politics.

      2. I think TV unreality shows are the pits and I suspect that very few Nottlers would want to have anything to do with such nonsense.

        However, if Farage has decided he no longer has any aspirations to re-enter politics and would like to get the vast amount of money they would pay him then he can do what he likes.

    2. I thing Farage thinks he has done his bit by taking us almost out of the EU. He has a soft spot for the Tory party and that is his flaw.

      1. ‘…. He has a soft spot for the Tory party and that is his flaw.’

        In spite of the fact that he was betrayed by Johnson who then completely buggered up Brexit.

    1. Islam and societies based on Christian values and ethics are incompatible.

      Islam will not tolerate Christianity and will overwhelm it if it is not checked.

      The question now is will Western Society continue to tolerate Islam?

      Maybe it is already too late – but If we do not put up a decisive opposition to Islam now then our civilisation will be lost for ever and barbarism will triumph.

        1. To borrow from Don MacLean:

          They would not listen, they’re not listening still
          Perhaps they never will.

      3. Islam has taken hold as a cancer in Europe. As no politician is allowed to say a word against them, we are lost. Back to a Patriarchal society where the chap with the biggest club is king. Even as a minority, we bend to acommodate their every wish, just wait until the slammers generate the numbers to hold serious political sway. I shall enjoy the sunshine today on my way to London for the night.

    2. At the last census there were 254 Jews resident in Bradford and just less than 170,000 Muslims – not counting the outlying Arab ghettos such as Keighley, et al. The Mooslems must be sh*tting themselves – why has the government allowed this alien Semitic tribe to infiltrate this peace loving Northern City of Harmony and Fraternal Love? (sarc).

  37. Morning all – looks like being a crap day, freezing cold, ice on the roads, hailstones and heavy rain. Lighting the log burner and hibernating for the day

    2. Serves you right for all those days when we were shivering and soaked and you gloated over the sun cracking the slabs! 🙂

  38. Off out shortly to meet my friends for coffee at our usual cafe, which has now changed hands. Will have to see what’s changed. The last owner was one in a million – she knew everyone , our likes and wdislikes, and what we normally had to eat. Lovely lady.

          5. It’s a Rawlings limited edition. Sold out everywhere. I’m waiting for the new Bond movie release. Then i’m putting it up for auction.

      1. We did – but as I’ve just replied to Johnny N – it was very quiet in there, compared to how it was with the previous owner, who was a very popluar lady.

      1. The breakfast menu was still the same and some of the staff are still there. But the prices are up a bit and the main change was how quiet it was in there compared to how it was before. As we were leaving I would have expected the lunchtime crowd in, but it was very quiet. The previous owner was a very popular lady.

    1. She doesn’t seem to realise that ‘multiculturalism’ leads to an influx of Muslims, which will eventually lead to ‘monoculturalism’ i.e. an Islamic state.

      1. Tolerance of the intolerance of those who wish to overwhelm you and wipe you out does not seem a sensible or coherent policy for those who wish to preserve their own society and their own values.

    1. I can open that link but if I go into his profile I don’t see any recent posts at all. Nothing since September. Very odd.

  42. ‘Morning All

    Possibly missed in the current broohaha it seems under current plans we will lose the ability to make steel from iron ore and will only be able to recycle existing scrap,more job losses more Chinese crap imported,what could possibly go wrong……….

    https://twitter.com/GBNEWS/status/1722868749835932080?s=20

    Meanwhile

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/06e7d6226e81c2f755e8c4c634e56806f0c1716ec18d686c53058452e8f18a7a.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d2fa0060b28c0dbc217c4d963fb95cee0306605a60a3252236cabc60faf66c38.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b9e9f1bd519a4f480f6d96d526e89913becdd6226ba86794cb0065008935d6ce.jpg

    https://scontent-man2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/399924136_654148196906553_3175806161586379846_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_s640x640&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=M7pMWDQ4eN4AX_ERwo7&_nc_ht=scontent-man2-1.xx&oh=00_AfBy9PhxSp6u7uIpUHdYsyDyJTN-ABImjtx4QG6TjNHUMg&oe=654E60BD

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/8b634d81a2be20eb135ce1b6660c4ab079ce2e5c6bba79e08f0c1ad27d933bb3.png

  43. 378650+ up ticks,

    LittleBoats 🇬🇧NI🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿En
    @LittleBoats2020
    This chilling development from our Crew tells us we will have to once again find a govt who has the courage to draw Britain’s undefeated sword & protect its own citizens from the gathering hordes

    “This is getting bad now Everyone look at this advice being sent out now to my children’s school from the Ministry of Defence. Every year children go in to the school to pay there respects and wear their army cadets, scouts uniform etc to remember and reflect on those that died for our freedom. They are now being told that basically because of Palestine 🇵🇸/ Gaza they should not wear any of these uniforms for their safety”

    OGGA1,
    That’s the MODs way to do it, the rear exits will not attack you if don the garb of submission, truly, but then they WILL come for you later, guaranteed.

    https://x.com/LittleBoats2020/status/1722639993250693228?s=20

    1. This is so stupid, the British armed forces are not involved in the Palestine/Israel thing. This is a totally fake narrative being pushed by the government.

      1. On the other hand doesn’t it mean that the P/H protesters are behaving in a threatening manner and so the March should be banned?

    2. The RAFAC in my former parish are looking forward to their parade on Sunday; uniforms cleaned and pressed, shoes highly polished.

  45. Praise be.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12733993/Former-NatWest-chief-executive-Dame-Alison-Rose-loses-payoff-banking-row-Nigel-Farage.html

    NatWest has said it will not pay £7.6 million in potential payments to former chief executive Dame Alison Rose after she left the company in July amid the fallout over the debanking row with Nigel Farage.

    She will be paid a little over £1.7 million for serving out her notice period, but will forfeit up to £7.6 million that she could have been entitled to had she stayed with the bank.

    1. So she thinks the bank has “cleared her of misconduct”. Does that mean that all the banks and every other commercial enterprise can blab about one’s account?

      I hope Nigel puts his money where his mouth is and sues.

    4. It’s a shame that CEOs of public companies telling giant porkies in the public square is not a jailible offence.

      1. Only the so-called far right’s numbers.

        I can’t help thinking that leaving them all to just get on with it would be the best way to hammer home exactly what these pro Hamas people actually represent.

  47. “A multinational team of scientists braved earthquakes, sheer cliffs, deadly
    snakes, malaria and blood-sucking leeches as they scoured the rainforest for
    the elusive creature.” So, they found an echidna, but where are the vegan leeches?

  48. 378650+ up ticks,

    A true Englishman’s take on little boats, certainly NOT what we have witnessed these past forty years through the product of the polling stations.

    Operation Dynamo, the evacuation from Dunkirk, involved the rescue of more than 338,000 British and French soldiers from the French port of Dunkirk between 26 May and 4 June 1940.

    LEST WE FORGET.

  49. “‘The continuing existence of Israel is a war crime’: Pro-Palestinian protesters in London reveal what they really think as they call Hamas ‘freedom fighters’ ahead of Armistice Day march”

    We are being delivered into hell by brainwashed halfwits who do not know the meaning of the word “compromise.”

  50. I have sent an email to the Home Secretary and c.c.’d my MP.

    “Good morning, Mrs. Braverman.

    I am writing to give you my wholehearted support for your thoughts on the marches that appear to have been deliberately staged to cause offence and grief to many millions of Britons.

    I am impressed that you have chosen to cut across thirty years of consensual drift and appeasement by British governments of all political persuasions.

    I do not underestimate the opposition you are facing – whether actively shown on the streets or passively deployed by all too many of your colleagues and civil servants.

    Please continue to speak for the many who feel they are currently voiceless and powerless.

    Anne Allan”

        1. When i contacted her i had a letter back with the House of Commons portcullis crest on it and headed notepaper. She also got the job done.

    4. There may be a movement that contributes to the effluent that flows down from the river to the sea but that should not be confused with the River Thames and the North Sea.

      Indeed, the confusion may arise in the context of two other geographical locations and I would hate to think that this had anything to do with religious differences:

      https://www.ajc.org/translatehate/From-the-River-to-the-Sea

  51. We have positive discrimination for jobs
    We have positive discrimination for university places
    We have positive discrimination for housing
    We have positive discrimination for adverts
    So why now all the fuss over positive discrimination for law and order and protest crowd control?

    Braverman is only stating the obvious

    1. She is, but there are too many people in the UK that don’t see it that way.
      I think if the present government wishes to stay in power they need to support her.
      There has been talk of her being replaced with Gove that will lose them even more votes.
      Nadine Dorries was interviewed on BBC morning TV by Naga and charlie she stated her case and i think was being honest about the nasty men serving in our cabinet. She was very confident with her answers and has a book out where she has named them. Gove was mentioned.

        1. 378650+ up ticks,,

          Afternoon B3,
          The only true party of Brexiteers was under the Batten leadership, none other.

      2. They are still trying to push Gove as a genuine conservative, hence his appearance at Jordan Peterson’s new organisation that is supposed to be the opposition to the WEF.
        Gove is a snake in the grass. Always has been, and always will be. He only has one talent which is running political campaigns behind the scenes.

        1. Could we not export him to Ireland? I understand they are a bit bereft on the fang front…..

      3. My friend (see my earlier post about our candidacy for re-education in Room 101) mentioned the book and was thinking of getting a copy.

    3. My Gen Z children have noticed that too – they say she just keeps singing this teenager stuff even though she’s nearly 30. She’s only got one idea, it seems, which she is playing for all it’s worth.

      2. Nearly 30? That’s optimism. TS will be 34 next month. Time to consider investing in a deep freeze or start looking for a donor. At least she has enough money to stock up on Victorinox Swiss Army knives.

      3. I’d be hard pressed to name any of her songs or to hum any of them. I have heard a handful but none stick in the memory. I do know that one of her albums is 1989.

          3. Can’t say. The two very popular (allegedly) black women singers with odd names – do the same. Most unappealing.

    1. Didn’t they remove the flags from the cenotaph so as not to upset the paedo rapists and murderers?

  56. Just noticed that the Persian harpsichordist Mahan Esfahani is a signatory on the October Declaration in support of British Jews. I went to his concert at the Wigmore Hall on Wednesday. He was accompanied by musicians from the Britten Sinfonia for a programme of mostly JS Bach, since he is a Bach scholar – and lectured us a bit! No complaints though as he knows his stuff and it was interesting to hear what was going on in JSB’s life and what were the circumstances of such and such a piece being written. He speaks English with a slight American accent and is based there now – no surprise there? The playing was superb, of course.

    1. Iran is a fantastic country and people – it’s such a shame that they have been captured by islam.

    2. Wonderful! What did he play? I bought a cd at the last Music society concert – Chromatic Fantasia and Goldberg Variations. So much better on the harpsichord than the piano.

      1. Telemann Concerto in F TWV52:F1
        JS Bach Harpsichord Concerto No 5 BWV1056
        JS Bach Harpsichord Concerto No 6 BWV1057
        JS BAch Harpsichord Concerto No 3 BWV1054
        Vivaldi Chamber Concerto in G RV105
        JS Bach Concerto in A BWV1044

    3. I gave Caroline a boxed set of CDs of Peter Hurford, the former organist at St Albans Abbey, playing the complete organ works of J.S. Bach.

      He died in 2019 aged 87 and I was interested to discover that as a boy he had been at my old school, Blundell’s, from 1944 – 1948.

  57. HMS Martin (G 44).
    Destroyer (M-class)

    Complement:
    224 officers and men (161 dead and 63 survivors).
    .
    At 03.54 hours on 10th November 1942, U-431 (Wilhelm Dommes) fired torpedoes at the Force H covering the landings during Operation Torch northeast of Algiers and reported three hits on a Leander class cruiser, which blew up and a destroyer damaged. In fact, the ship hit was HMS Martin (G 44) (Cdr C.R.P. Thomson, DSO, RN).

    Type VIIC U-Boat U-431 was sunk on 21st October 1943 in the Mediterranean Sea east of Cartagena, Spain by depth charges from a British Wellington aircraft (179 Sqn RAF/Z). 52 dead (all hands lost).

    https://uboat.net/media/allies/warships/br/dd_hms_martin_g44.jpg

  58. Many DT letters in similar vein:

    Ben Smith
    32 MIN AGO
    Odd how there are still no marches for the 25,000 civilians Saudi Arabia kills in Yemen, every single year. One might start to think that the marching Muslims and socialists just hated Jews.

    1. 25,000 civilian deaths annually … Gosh, I wonder if the population of Yemen is shrinking.

  59. Sunak would ‘come out on top’ if he sacked Braverman, claims George Osborne

    Osborne got virtually everything wrong when he was the worst chancellor of modern times.

    He is wrong now. If Sunak sacks Braverman then that will be the end of Sunak and the end of the Conservative Party.

    Either way Braverman’s best ploy now would be to resign and join the Reform Party.

    1. 378650+ up ticks,

      Afternoon R,
      Anything that looks like,feels like, talks like the tory (ino) party is acceptable.

      Why not just call it the reformed tory party Mk 2 ?

      2. Richard Tice appears to have no empathy. He speaks like a robot and seems to have no emotion. I much prefer his girlfriend!

        1. Having less emotion is a good thing in many areas. You use your head not your heart, thats where its all gone wrong.

          1. To a point, but if you actually need to get through to sentient beings, a bit of emotion is good. I’d rather listen to someone with a bit of passion than a robot.

          5. But not demonstrating a reasonable level of passion for what you propose can mean that you don’t really believe, and so will change direction when the going gets tough. Also, it doesn’t motivate an audience, and that’s really important when you need to break through.

        2. I agree – Farage may be a narcissistic fraud but he can inspire people in a way that Tice cannot.

          1. Seriously? He went out and sold his product! He’s not a fraud and believed the cons when they said they’d stand behind him!

          2. You are right – Nigel Farage certainly believed passionately in Brexit so maybe fraud is too strong a term. But he is certainly narcissistic and loves praise far more than he should.

            His great mistake was to let go when he had Johnson by the balls – he should have squeezed, jerked and pulled till Johnson’s eyes watered.

            Not standing Brexit Party candidates against sitting Conservative remainer MPs in 2019 led to the bodged Brexit and a Conservative Party rotten to the core with treacherous remainers still in control of the party.

      3. Richard Tice appears to have no empathy. He speaks like a robot and seems to have no emotion. I much prefer his girlfriend!

      4. But there’s no alternative. There really truly isn’t. I cannot vote Conservative for another 4 years of socialism. I will not vote for Labour or Lib Dems for 4 years of communism.

        I won’t abstain or spoil my ballot because it has more value to me than that, so I will give my vote to those who’s prinicples I share. That’s the Reform party. They likely won’t win. I don’t care. The alternative is unconscionable.

          1. There’s no hope of anything changing for the better between now and the next GE, not enough time to do any Uturns. And certainly no time for full stops.

        2. I berated one of the parties where Firstborn lives, for not standing at the last election, leaving a choice between several colours of socialist. What kind of democracy is that, I wrote, that leaves you to vote socialist, socialist or socialist?

        3. That’s assuming you have a candidate. In the event you don’t then spoiling your ballot paper might be all that’s left (unless you are willing to stand as an independent to give people an alternative to vote for).

      5. You may well be right – but if you are right and there is no viable alternative to Sunak, Starmer or Davey there is no escape and we are completely stuffed.

        So why don’t we just become defeatists? Bring on sharia law. Bring on Islam. Bring on the Caliphate UK. There’s nothing we can do to stop it so why try. That’s that. We’re done.

        Reminds me of what that German said at the end of that Don’t Talk About The War episode in Fawlty Towers

        “How on earth did they win?”

        (I suppose we won because hadn’t given up.)

        1. Agreed. I’m growing tired of reading defeatist sentiments. History has never stopped before. It won’t stop now. Everything changes eventually.

        2. I didn’t say to give up, just that the combo of Tice & Reform isn’t cutting it.
          What’s needed is a Churchill or Thatcher, and a good heavyweight Party organisation (Tebbit?)

    3. Whenever there’s an action to take this government can be guaranteed to do the exact, precise opposite of what it should.

    5. If she were to join the Reform Party she will not be an MP after the next General Election.

      1. I disagree. If she remains in the Conservative Party her political career will soon be over.

        1. As a Conservative, she has a very big majority in Fareham which I think she’d hold with a much reduced majority whether or not a Reform candidate stands. As a Reform candidate, I predict she’d finish second or third in a closely fought contest to one of or both a Labour or/and a different Conservative candidate.

          1. Never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for ………

            Will it be Sunak or Braverman who is un-Donne!

            We shall see!

          2. Never send to know for whom the bell tolls; it tolls for ………

            Will it be Sunak or Braverman who is un-Donne!

            We shall see!

    6. Has Braverman got the measure of Sunak? If she has then I would expect her to provide more controversial statements, and better still, actions that show that this placeman emperor definitely doesn’t have any clothes.
      Sunak is not working for the people of the UK, his agenda is too clearly aligned with that of the WEF/Globalist plans. Sunak is attempting to create a ‘business as usual’ feel about his governance but the big giveaway is his refusal to act on the immigration front, both legal and the invasion from France. This is a cornerstone of the WEF/Globalist plan to create unrest across nations and cannot be hidden.

        1. In short, the date for achieving a production target of 400,000 EVs has been delayed with no new date or target yet announced. Production has not been abandoned but will be very much slowed down. While that may be the case for its US market, what about its European operations, including Vauxhall and Opel, which has a 2035 deadline imposed by the EU for the cessation of ICE vehicle production and another of 2030 for the UK, which the present government plans to extend to 2035 whereas Labour’s spokesman has said his party would reinstate 2030 should it be the governing party after the next General Election?

          1. Former ECB President Mario Draghi Discusses The Death Of The Eurozone

            “Either Europe acts together and becomes a deeper union…  or I am afraid the European Union will not survive other than being a single market.”

            Fingers crossed!

      3. They are going to match the supply to the demand.
        Nobody is buying EVs apparently. Tch, tch – bad customers. They will have to be replaced.

    3. And the ‘They’ still insist the fire that destroyed the cars and the carpark at Luton was a simple diesel.

      3. Petrol ignites very easily – all you need is a spark.

        Diesel cannot be ignited with a spark it needs to be put under pressure to get it going.

        It is diesel’s reluctance to ignite which means that petrol engines are never fitted in boats nowadays and a boat that does have a petrol engine is virtually uninsurable.

        1. Not quite Richard – yes pressure will ignite it because the pressurisation increases the temperature to the flash point. The flash point of petrol is below freezing but that of diesel is well above that which is why a spark or a match won’t ignite it.

        2. Thats why diesel engines have fuel injection.

          A few years ago I was advised to try diesel fuel and destroy a fiercely destructive out of control bamboo plant in our garden.
          I had brocken a garden fork and struggled with a concrete breaker and a pick axe to dig it out. The diesel worked perfectly and slowly but surely destroyed the roots and there was no danger in topping up the fuel as the fire burned.
          I’ve never heard of diesel engine bursting into flames. What the people at airport have stated is a lie.
          For obvious reasons.

    4. So that’s what Musk must do with his Teslas – he’s a successful business man so he must be flexible in his outlook, stop selling them as cars and sell them as armaments instead. Grant Shapps is the Minister of Defence – I’m sure he’ll buy a few.

      1. Nope.
        According to Firstborn, who is an EV Technical Authority, manufacturers are batch-making EVs so the stockpiles are somewhat in balance with the sales.
        Google the subject, and there are a lot of hits that corroborate his position.

        1. Sorry, I’m with Harry K on this one. The Twitter post is based on a YouTube video That somewhat twists what GM’s CEO actually announced, a few days ago. They are revising their production targets (presumably, reducing them!) but still very committed to EVs.

    6. They can’t, as internal combustion engines are being mandated out of existence. Until governments abandon this non-scientific, quasi-religious rubbish called climate change and bin the laws, manufacturers have no choice but to continue to produce electric cars that no-one wants to buy. There are fines for not producing enough relative to combustion-powered cars.

      1. I thought quotas for EV vs ICE vehicles was a European.imposition. Is it also the case in the USA?

        1. I’m not sure about the rest of Europe but the UK government has imposed quotas for EV vehicles starting in 2024 and rising to 80% of new vehicles by 2030 ahead of the 2035 ban on new ICE vehicle sales.

          https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-electric-vehicle-quotas-2024/

          Whereas federal quotas cannot be imposed in the USA although individual states, California being one, can impose their own mandates.

          https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/analysis-boosting-ev-market-share-to-67-of-new-sales-is-a-huge-leap-but-automakers-can-rise-to-the-challenge

        3. Same over here, those lefty governments don’t have any original thoughts, they just follow the prescribed mantra.

  61. 378650+ up ticks,

    As for the veterans NOT wearing medals how about we ask them to go to the ceremony via the police armoury, they have, after all, carried arms in the protection of the innocents and country, it would not be a first time .

  62. 🎵 All i want for Christmas is…🎵 Iberico Secreto Pate Negra pork chops…Oh yes ! Donald Russel is out of stock. :@(

      1. Ta boom tish….!

        It’s the Waygu of pork. I have had pannage pork before which is deliciously sweet but not had the Pate Negra yet.

    2. I stopped using Donald Russell (which promotes itself as a Scottish butcher) after discovering that the 3 bird roast I ordered was produced in France.

      1. Sacre bleu !

        They obviously bought them in.
        I did notice this year they are doing a good deal for Christmas. Free range bronze turkey crown with everything else you would need for a Christmas dinner including all the veg and pudding for £175. Serves 10.
        Compared with Tom Kerridge’s Christmas box which contains a beef wellington and not much else for £210.

        1. We might buy fillet steak from Morrisons again this year and make a beef Wellington over Christmas. We did it last year and son, dil, grandson and we two said it was best beef we’d ever had. In Morrisons yesterday fillet steak as £32 per kg.

          3. The best fillet steak I remember eating was at a bush dinner in Kenya a few years ago. A great evening to remember – in a dry river bed, and a full bar.

          5. That is cheap per kilo.

            Last time for my guests i made pithivier wellingtons. They looked good on the plate. And i used rose veal fillets. Over all cost for the beef was£16. From Ocado. Sensible me !
            They still drained me of the Montalcino !

          8. Here you go:
            Ox cheeks in red wine recipe
            This is very rich, so I often find it stretches to serve eight. The instructions here are to strain the cooking juices, discard the vegetables and reduce the sauce (cooking fresh vegetables to serve alongside) but I don’t always do that. Even though the vegetables have been cooked for four hours I sometimes leave them (especially when short of time).
            Prep time: 10 minutes | Cooking time: 4 hours 30 minutes

            Serves Six
            Ingredients
            2 tbsp olive oil
            3 ox cheeks, about 1.5kg (or more) in total
            2 onions, roughly chopped
            2 large carrots, diced
            2 cloves garlic, crushed
            20ml Marsala or port
            200ml red wine
            1.2 litres beef or chicken stock
            1 cinnamon stick
            6 juniper berries, bruised
            6 sprigs thyme
            2 bay leaves

            Method
            1. Preheat the oven to 150C/gas mark 2.
            2. Heat the oil in a large casserole dish on the hob and brown the ox cheeks all over, seasoning them too. Remove from the pan.
            3. Add the onions, carrots and celery to the pan and cook over a medium to low heat until the onions are pale gold and soft, about 5 minutes, stirring frequently.
            4. Add the garlic and cook for another couple of minutes, then pour on the Marsala or port, and the red wine, and cook until reduced by half.
            5. Add the stock, spices and herbs, season, and put the ox cheeks back in.
            6. Bring the mixture to a very gentle simmer.
            7. Cover with a lid and cook in the oven for 4 hours.
            8. Turn the ox cheeks over every so often. By the end of cooking, the meat should be melting.
            9. Remove the meat, set it aside, and strain the cooking liquid.
            10. Lift the fat off the top of the cooking juices and discard (adding ice cubes will help it to slightly set on top, which makes this easier).
            11. Put the strained juices back in the pan and reduce by boiling if you want them to be thicker.
            12. Halve each ox cheek (or cut them in smaller pieces) and reheat in the sauce. Serve with fresh vegetables – I like carrots and cabbage or cavolo nero – and mashed potatoes or polenta.

        2. What might any of them do for the poor lonely guy living by himself and for whom, Christmas is just another day?

          3. I normal wait until Donald Russel have a sale on. This time there were lots of things half price plus £20 off if you spent £100. Plus free delivery. That’s when i fill the freezer.
            I also find 250gm steak portions are now too big for me so i cut them in half and they last twice as long.

    1. I fear this will end badly.
      Might be the awakening that’s required, though. But the anticipation is making me stressed, and I’m not even in the country!

    2. Amina Ahmed, described as a ‘Met Police Leadership Programme Facilitator’ has said that anyone who supports Israel’s self-defence against Hamas is guilty of inciting hatred against Muslims, while Mohammed Kozbar serves as an adviser on hate crime to the Crown Prosecution Service even though he is the deputy general secretary of the Muslim Council of Britain, an organisation that has been boycotted by every government since 2009 because of its support for attacks on the Royal Navy enforcing a UN weapons embargo on Gaza.

      This demonstrates how Muslims have been allowed – indeed, probably encouraged – to infiltrate so much of the establishment.

      2. And local government; and education authorities; and the Border Farce and Passport Office, and the Home Office….

        The list is endless.

  64. Afternoon, all. I’m afraid I have some sad news. On Monday, True_Belle posted this:

    https://twitter.com/TrinCollChoir/status/1719044398275518665?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1719044398275518665%7Ctwgr%5E75df15420ef78d8e2e019f6b05e0338d100ab58a%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdisqus.com%2Fembed%2Fcomments%2F%3Fbase%3Ddefaultf%3Dnottlt_i%3D352120https3A2F2Fnttl.blog2F3Fp3D3521t_u%3Dhttps3A2F2Fnttl.blog2Fmonday-6-november-protests-must-not-be-allowed-to-disrupt-this-countrys-armistice-day2Ft_e%3DMonday20620November3A20Protests20must20not20be20allowed20to20disrupt20this20countryE28099s20Armistice20Dayt_d%3DMonday20620November3A20Protests20must20not20be20allowed20to20disrupt20this20countryE28099s20Armistice20Dayt_t%3DMonday20620November3A20Protests20must20not20be20allowed20to20disrupt20this20countryE28099s20Armistice20Days_o%3Ddescversion%3Dd629e5b49d79391619c4533260a745df

    The name James Orford rang a bell, and I commented at the time that I thought he might be Lottie’s nephew. So I tracked him down (we organists have our methods) and emailed him.

    I have just received this reply:

    Subject: Ann Cook

    Dear Geoff,

    Thank you very much for getting in touch. I am indeed Ann’s nephew but I’m afraid I must be the bearer of bad news and tell you that Ann very sadly passed away at the beginning of October. She was peaceful at the end and had been very well cared for.

    I hope you don’t mind, but I’ve passed your email address on to my mother, who would like to write with more information as she spent a lot of time with Ann in her last few months.

    All very best wishes,

    James

    1. Such sad news, Geoff. I’m sure that I speak for all NoTTLers when I say that Lottie will be sorely missed. I just hope that her final recent years with sympathetic and supportive NoTTLers gave her some solace through all her difficulties.

        1. Very sad news but not unexpected – at least we know now. I hope her son was able to come and be with her before she died. She hadn’t seen him since she left the States I think. So soon after her husband died so suddenly. I hope we did give her some support in her final weeks.
          The last post I remember reading from her was about falling off the bathroom stool and being helped up by a kind workman where she lived. She hadn’t lost her sense of humour, in spite of the sadness.

        2. GEOFF …

          I feel numb with shock, poor dear Ann, terrible news ..

          The Dear Lord works in mysterious ways, as if I was led to the unravelling of the whereabouts of Ann.

          You have found the final clue , which shone before your very astute memory and I am so pleased you followed your instinct .

          There was no trace off her passing in the local paper , but I wonder whether she was featured in the DT obits ?

          Dear brave Ann, she has had a terrible time , and was totally let down by the NHS.

          A tragedy that unfolded slowly before our very eyes .

          Shocked to the core, and so very sorry .

    3. Ah, I think we knew but while there was no news, there was hope. I was listening to some Vivaldi the other evening and thinking about her. Ann wrote about receiving much needed support from a sister-in-law? Is that James’s mother? Has the funeral already happened I wonder? One would hope so in a way but that said, it isn’t guaranteed.

      1. I would think it might have, by now. She did say her sister in law had been a great support to her. She had just the one brother, I believe, who died just about the time she moved back from the States. I remember her telling us about a nightmarish journey back from his funeral.

    4. Very sad, at least she’s at peace now after all the trauma she went through recently. RIP Ann

    7. So sad to hear this news. Ann (Lotl), suffered a torrid last few months and as Ndovu states, the NHS let her down terribly. Ann and her “Pinot” have been missed. RIP.

    8. Oh Geoff! Thank you for that and what an awful sad thing to have to pass on. Please give his mother my best wishes and thanks for her care for LotL.

    10. Thank you so much, Geoff. And well done for the sleuthing.

      There is a lot I know about LotL but client confidentiality seals my lips. Just to say she made some hard choices late in life and that fate did not treat her fairly.

    11. That’s extremely sad Geoff. The only saving grace is that she may be reunited with her husband, pity they had so little time together.
      Lottie (Ann) will be sorely missed. RIP.

      1. She was a great favourite of mine and I miss her so much. I hope to catch up with you soon, Ann, in that afterlife and/or between life. I wonder what the next life.’s lesson will be. We’ve done disappointment and it can only get better. Love you and RIP.

      1. Well, my lady,
        I opened a bottle of Savigny les Beaune in your memory.

        I hope it was suitable:

        Red: the red is a deep cherry colour with garnet highlights. It boasts a bouquet of small red and black fruits (blackcurrant, cherry, raspberry) and flowers (violet). The body is ample and discreetly tannic and the fruit remains present. Frequently one will find an elegant hint of Morello cherry.
        Roundness, volume, power and balance are all here, and in just the right proportions.

        In many ways rather like you were here!

        Edit for block quote

          1. Oddly enough, I tried to track back to see, but suffering from Nottleriarrhoea it was too long ago.
            But it was almost certainly around that time
            Very strange, very, very strange.

          4. PS
            my recollection is that it was one of my “utterly off topic” posts, but that said, I’m probably mistaken.

    15. Thank you for finding this out.
      Poor Ann, but at least she is with her beloved husband again. Losing him was a terrible blow, especially as they only found each other relatively recently. As Richard commented below, she lived a full life and she’s gone too soon. RIP Ann.

    16. Thank you, Geoff.
      It was so frustrating not being able to find out. We didn’t wish to be intrusive, but also did not wish to leave her out when she was so lonely and distraught.
      Extremely sad, but not unexpected news. I think her husband’s death was the final straw.

      1. That kind of event takes it out of you.
        You could see it in Her Majesty, when Prince Philip died.
        The expression “my other half” describes it well.
        We’ll miss her. Hope they have her favourite wine where she is now, and that her husband has it all sorted ready for her arrival.

    17. So sorry to read this, it is what we felt must be the case but being presented with the truth and the realisation of that truth, is always a shock, it takes one’s breath away. Rest in peace, Lady Ann of the Lake.

    18. I can add little to the comments already made except in expressing my sadness at the death (we will eschew ‘passing’) of one of our best loved contributors who, in spite of the various travails thrown at her, always maintained her sense of humour. Rest easy, Ann.

    19. I am probably the last one here and after reading the many comments there us nothing that I can add to those kind wishes.

      Lottie will be missed and I will join many of you tonight with a nice glass of red wine in her honor. Not pinot though, that is Anns tipple,

    20. I posted this last night but it was possibly missed by most as it was sub sub reply to another thread.
      Ann put me onto this BBC series of very entertaining radio comedy with ‘Graeme Garden & Barry Cryer as the eponymous Scotsmen, with Alison Steadman & Jeremy Hardy under the title You’ll Have Had Your Tea?’
      Oddly enough I listened to 3 episodes last night. Here’s a link to an archive of the shows. I’m going to listen to another couple of them in a while.
      Ann loved a naughty laugh.

      https://archive.org/details/HamishAndDougalS03E07BurnsNightSpecial

    21. Thank you, Geoff. I appreciate your efforts, despite the sad news, although I had already reconciled myself to her passing being the most likely reason for her prolonged absence. I cannot help but feel a little bitter that healthcare in her part of the country was found wanting when most needed. A NATIONAL Health Service should be just that, not a collection of trusts in different regions offering a rather varied service. That the final care she received eventually came up to scratch and that her end was peaceful offers some consolation.

      Farewell, Ann.

      1. Thank you, David. Yes – the news was hardly a surprise, but both she and Steve were very badly let down. You and I seem to have survived the ministrations of our local horse spittles. Would that this were the norm nationwide. I’m currently responding to an email from Ann’s SiL.

    22. Dear Geoff,

      My son, James, has given me your email address as I understand you contacted him via his website in the hope of getting some news about Ann. I’m not sure if we’ve ever met, but by way of introduction, I am her brother Stuart’s widow.

      As James has probably told you by now, Ann very sadly passed away on 4 October. I do not know how recently you were in touch with her but you obviously knew about her facial tumour and the completely unexpected death of Steve on 1 August. As you can imagine, the emotional and psychological shock was immense and she never really recovered from it. He was not a well man, but nobody had expected that to happen. They had been so incredibly happy together during the last 5 years and having him torn away literally overnight was more than she could bear. It all seemed so very unfair. She was in and out of hospital throughout August and September and I visited her frequently during that time. She talked a lot about her friends, remembering all the happy times and it won’t surprise you to know that she retained her sense of humour right to the end, despite being in considerable pain. Against all the odds, she kept hoping that she would be able to regain strength so that she could get back to her computer and get in touch with everyone again. Sadly, that was never very likely and unfortunately the phone reception in the hospital was terrible so she couldn’t even call anyone.

      Eventually she was admitted to the Macmillan Unit at Christchurch Hospital in late September where she died peacefully. I spent the afternoon with her a couple of days before she died. She was barely conscious and it was obvious that the end was near, but she was being magnificently looked after and was very peaceful. I wish I could have said the same about the care she received at earlier stages, but that’s all water under the bridge now. At least she was comfortable and tranquil at the end.

      She and Steve were cremated together privately on 25 October and their ashes were scattered together at the crematorium in Bournemouth yesterday. I had been assured by both Bournemouth Council (who were arranging Steve’s cremation) and the funeral directors (who were arranging Ann’s) that the relatives would be told of the date and time of the cremation in advance so that we could mark the occasion and I had been waiting for that information before contacting the friends whose contact details I had managed to locate. To my considerable annoyance, this didn’t happen and I didn’t find out until a week ago that the cremation had already happened. However, the important thing is that they were indeed cremated and scattered together, which I am certain is what she would have wanted above all else.

      I’ve responded. It’s immensely frustrating that I’m acquainted with Poole’s former CEO, who is now retired and has no responsibility for the unitary BC&P shitshow.

  65. Afternoon, all. I’m afraid I have some sad news. 4 Days ago, TB posted this:

    https://twitter.com/TrinCollChoir/status/1719044398275518665?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1719044398275518665%7Ctwgr%5E75df15420ef78d8e2e019f6b05e0338d100ab58a%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fdisqus.com%2Fembed%2Fcomments%2F%3Fbase%3Ddefaultf%3Dnottlt_i%3D352120https3A2F2Fnttl.blog2F3Fp3D3521t_u%3Dhttps3A2F2Fnttl.blog2Fmonday-6-november-protests-must-not-be-allowed-to-disrupt-this-countrys-armistice-day2Ft_e%3DMonday20620November3A20Protests20must20not20be20allowed20to20disrupt20this20countryE28099s20Armistice20Dayt_d%3DMonday20620November3A20Protests20must20not20be20allowed20to20disrupt20this20countryE28099s20Armistice20Dayt_t%3DMonday20620November3A20Protests20must20not20be20allowed20to20disrupt20this20countryE28099s20Armistice20Days_o%3Ddescversion%3Dd629e5b49d79391619c4533260a745df

    The name James Orford rang a bell, and I commented at the time that I thought he might be Lottie’s nephew. So I tracked him down (we organists have our methods) and emailed him.

    I have just received this reply:

    Subject: Ann Cook

    Dear Geoff,

    Thank you very much for getting in touch. I am indeed Ann’s nephew but I’m afraid I must be the bearer of bad news and tell you that Ann very sadly passed away at the beginning of October. She was peaceful at the end and had been very well cared for.

    I hope you don’t mind, but I’ve passed your email address on to my mother, who would like to write with more information as she spent a lot of time with Ann in her last few months.

    All very best wishes,

    James

  66. Does anything in the UK work?
    We sent two forms in an envelope to the DWP. One they acted upon the other they have lost.
    Buffoons.

    1. A lot of them work from home these days. So your document is probably sitting in somebody’s home waiting to be dealt with.

          2. When I enquired regarding what had happened, I even said I knew the legal beagle.
            It cut no ice at all.

            They said so what? he’s dead.

          8. Indeed you do. I have to prove, annually, to at least one private pension provider, that I am still alive. I have to sign the form in the presence of a witness who is not related.

          10. Yes, and that’s fair enough, I don’t have a problem with that, given how much fraud there is.

    2. I think we are reaching the stage where no body is taking notice of emails. I’ve have sent four to a finance company to cancel an agreement for our annual car service.
      I had phone and it sounded like I had been put through to India. But after half an hour on the phone including waiting time I managed to get some sense.

  67. On R4’s World At One, Steph Pike from Stop The War said: “I can’t think of a better way of honouring Armistice Day than to join in a peaceful demonstration calling for a ceasefire and an end to the massacre in Gaza.”

    Steph Pike is a revolutionary socialist and feminist.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/63309040fdca1e0e18a9586bf8a5f48e721a79b4680d26626b2189638e1451ee.jpg

    On PM just now, Ismail Patel, founder of Friends of Al-Aqsa, performed some expert linguistic gymnastics as he sought to justify tomorrow’s march. As in so many such interviews, his tone became more threatening as he was pushed by the presenter (and well done to her, a female whose name I didn’t catch and whose voice I didn’t recognise). He implied that the police would be trying to provoke the marchers to justify arrests, particularly because of Suella Braverman’s ‘rhetoric’. He said: “She has given instructions to the police to see if even flying the Palestinian flag may be construed as inciting hatred”.

    I was reminded of Chubby Choudhary’s infamous interview on Newsnight in 2006.

    Ismail Patel is an optician. He is one of the organisers of the march. He was filmed in 2009 at a rally saying: “We are all Hamas”. Naturally, he brushed it off when challenged by the presenter.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/131980e13866ab1a760ac22fb691a1a9eb893a9d2dbbbd009432edead3deeac5.jpg

      1. I’m disgusted with the treacherous invertebrates who inflicted this situation on a reasonably happy and settled country.

  68. Evening, all. Just had a very enjoyable afternoon chewing the fat with a friend. We concluded that if we’d been in control, the country wouldn’t be in the state it is in! 🙂

      1. As we parted, I said, “You and I will be in prison if this conversation gets out”. It may not be a joke much longer.

          1. I’ve just read of Ann’s demise. So sad, but perhaps after all her trials and tribulations she is now in peace and reunited with her beloved husband.

  69. If there is an afterlife, I pray that LotL is reunited with her husband.

    Life is so cruel at times.

  70. ‘Night All

    Sad news about Lottie,I shall raise a glass of red to her being reunited with her husband

    Meanwhile some cats and dogs to cheer us all up

    http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/450175-2/Smart-cat-unlocks-door.gif

    https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/152/381/626/original/b595915b4f724222.gif

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7e6a7c81dc66794ee7f80752c4a3dd4fd3fdf3d877f574c3890c5dc82f9b15b4.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/83ca297ea2a94230e459c7169df2e3f4f1e7b3ba46d5f66e7fdf8a1680c27af4.jpg
    Edit forgot this one
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/de1f7baebbf06b8303e7e0bda5468c026ed7950ac00d38930318dbdce20e15f3.jpg

      2. Oscar certainly sleeps as much as he likes without worrying about predators (although Kadi does have a tendancy to wake him up at times).

  71. ‘Night All

    Sad news about Lottie,I shall raise a glass of red to her being reunited with her husband

    Meanwhile some cats and dogs to cheer us all up

    http://forgifs.com/gallery/d/450175-2/Smart-cat-unlocks-door.gif

    https://media.gab.com/system/media_attachments/files/152/381/626/original/b595915b4f724222.gif

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7e6a7c81dc66794ee7f80752c4a3dd4fd3fdf3d877f574c3890c5dc82f9b15b4.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/83ca297ea2a94230e459c7169df2e3f4f1e7b3ba46d5f66e7fdf8a1680c27af4.jpg
    Edit forgot this one
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/de1f7baebbf06b8303e7e0bda5468c026ed7950ac00d38930318dbdce20e15f3.jpg

  73. Looks like a volcano eruption is coming shortly on Iceland. Seismic activity has been increasing a lot during today. Epicentre to the South of Reykjavik, apparently.
    This should render all the CO2-saving actions irrelevant, block the sun, and make for a cold winter. Oh, goody.
    https://www.ruv.is/english

    2. Eldest son was on an expedition on the caps there when one blew, he ended up on an “ice-tractor” going to rescue a team on the far side of a glacier.
      Exciting times!

      1. Unfortunately, the climate loons will take it as evidence that the climate freakery actually works.

      1. Indeed.
        Hopefully you can persuade the other 10 billion who seem to be of the opposide opinion.

        1. Precisely. The great Thomas Sowell has pointed to this inescapable fact and that so many climate scientists cannot admit to it for fear of losing their funding.

          Those with an understanding of solar activity have long predicted that Earth is entering a period of global cooling.

  74. So they haven’t sacked Braverman yet, now it’s all down now to what happens over the weekend to see who has to step down

    1. I wish to see the Hamas supporters deported forthwith. Hamas are hateful people responsible for atrocities across the Middle East.

      Braverman spoke the Truth. Our government had better get a grip on the problem of mass immigration of those who hate us into our country. Expect the worst at the coming pro-Muslim-Brotherhood marches.

      1. The only question now is where will it kick off?

        It could be England with the government still trying to appease the invaders, it could easily be canada with our Palestinian loving idiot in chief or maybe one of our cross channel neighbours that have been overrun.

    1. The Halifax tried that on with me then made a complete balls up of transferring my account to another bank. I charged them the same amount they’d charged me for “administrative fees” before I repaid the money they had paid out after my mandates should have been transferred.

  76. I had a little bit of a walk around Horton, Knowlton church, and the avenue of beech trees approaching Badbury Rings on the B3082. I was lucky as the rain held off and the sun came out. The tower is Sturt’s Tower at Horton and is maintained by O2 as a mast.
    I also hope Pat and Steve made it and had a long and happy life together.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/53e4edfb0a512bf49929a25ab3f78296c6772a7eaf54fa2652e69ecd912168f5.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/75d4f4e461e4b27e28e6cc0902d7848e5388740a45cd075a4336bb8df1ef94c5.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a2c5e6082c106cff5f996fb289fd8af184a14beb519c8efd2fc8da1053859215.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/687ac53f25af61005f2a06a1e61410861a5fa5d5cefc444305fcc036a8029915.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/134dcd6287cef210644c129f19c5febb2e9992182677bdbcbb25ea734a2c26ad.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/736073033e007606f61bbb38e6c7b6f3a389b73990b3bf37a4124303c06734bd.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ed8a50f682acd4bed839c529441d589b1bdfffe82b21ce4671c5f8ec9d4549e9.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1816a5b68919b3f7c7d58c825b49efe10b72d0f3c3f92843a3c90cf9b64cd572.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/31c1f1c5e05e5c03190d08e70eccc2369abf6f78312e6061c626b09706ae28a0.jpg

    2. I was in Wimborne yesterday afternoon, Friday, I had an appointment with the hair dresser I use .
      I came home via Badbury Rings, the colours are gorgeous, so are your photographs .

  77. From the “Today 100 Years Ago”, on the Munich Beer Hall Putsch. This is what Hitler apparently said:

    “ “To-day the National Revolution begins. It is not in any way directed against General State Commissary Kahr, who is highly esteemed by all of us. It is directed simply and solely against the Jewish Government of Berlin. We have taken this step because we are convinced that there are men at the head of the Government of the Reich from whom an impassable gulf separates us. Long live the new Government of Hitler, Ludendorff, and Poehner.” The last-named individual was formerly Police President of Munich under Von Kahr.”

  78. From https://www.telegraph.co.uk/christmas/2023/11/10/the-padre-sat-through-the-night-with-the-dead-pilot/
    By Dominic Nicholls

    Is Remembrance more than simply remembering? If so, should it make room for human emotions such as anger and self-pity, or be concerned only with more lofty ideals?

    That Stephen Addis can smile when relating how the memorial to his brother, a British soldier killed in a helicopter crash, was moved to make way for a new traffic junction in the Bosnian town of Gornji Vakuf, suggests true Remembrance is being strong enough to look past the petty trivialities of daily life.

    “Life moves on,” he says. “Areas return to normality, which is what they were trying to achieve.”

    The memorial plaque to Army Air Corps pilots Corporal Chris Addis and Captain Phil Jarvis, and Sergeant Dave Kinsley of the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers, was moved to the city of Split on the Croatian coast, where it sits alongside another memorial to troops killed in a similar incident three years prior to the 1998 crash.

    “Areas get developed,” Addis says. “The crash site became a major road junction; the plaque needed to be rehomed. Even if it’s in a different place in the country, it’s nice it’s still out in that country rather than, say, being returned to the UK.”
    I’ve written about this incident before. I think it has particular resonance for me as Phil Jarvis was the first – but sadly not the last – friend of mine to be killed on operations during my military career. I didn’t know Chris Addis or Dave Kinsley, but I salute their service as I remember my friend.

    The piece I wrote before, however, was missing a crucial element.

    Now, 25 years after the crash in Bosnia, I wanted to ask those who were impacted the most whether the passage of time had changed their view of Remembrance.

    The three men died after their Lynx helicopter suffered a catastrophic failure and crashed just outside the British army base at Gornji Vakuf in central Bosnia three days before Christmas.

    The field the helicopter came down in was outside the wire and often flooded, allowing the anti-personnel mines made from plastic (to defeat metal detectors) to float across from known minefields, resting wherever the water left them. As such, the area was strictly out of bounds.

    The accident happened late in the afternoon as darkness was falling. Thick snow obscured any chance of seeing the mines, if they were there. Regardless, with no thought for their own safety, soldiers from the operations room pushed down the fence and ran through the snow to the downed helicopter.
    Phil was already dead. Sgt Kinsley and Cpl Addis were alive, but badly injured. They were the priority in the failing light. The soldiers raced to free them from the wreckage and administer first aid.

    Tragically Sgt Kinsley died in hospital later that night. Cpl Addis was repatriated to the UK on Christmas Day, his 26th birthday, but died in hospital in Bristol a week later on New Year’s Eve. The decision was taken to leave it until daylight to recover Phil, still strapped into the freezing cockpit, as it was simply too dangerous to risk more lives that night.

    Matt Berry, a close friend of Phil’s since the age of four, remembers him as a charismatic, inspiring, vibrant and loving man. “It wasn’t a party unless Phil was going to be there,” he says.

    Phil was also a rational and intelligent man. Approaching the tour in Bosnia, “he knew there was a serious side to what he had to do out there,” Berry says.

    “This was an arena he had trained for. So he was trepidatious, I think, knowing some of the complex difficulties around that conflict. Being there as a peacekeeper would have been, perhaps, a difficult line to tread, but he would have taken all of that on board and was looking forward to the challenge of a real deployment.”

    He takes time to relate events on the day he heard Phil had been lost. “I’m not a person who cries a great deal, but I cried a lot on that day,” he recalls.

    Remembrance is part of Britain’s “cultural identity”, Matt says. “It’s about recognising service and the desire to help others; values espoused by the men and women of the Armed Forces, who risk and occasionally lose their lives for such endeavours.”

    Back in 1998 at the crash site, that notion of service was about to be embodied in the finest way, by what happened next.

    As darkness fell and the decision was taken to leave Phil overnight, still strapped into the wreckage of the helicopter, Padre Tom Place, serving the British army base at Gornji Vakuf from the Royal Army Chaplains Department, stepped forward.

    Chaplains go where the soldiers go but are non-combatants and as such don’t carry weapons. They provide spiritual and pastoral support to soldiers and their families and also teach the Army’s values and standards: courage, discipline, respect for others, integrity, loyalty and selfless commitment. Padre Tom was about to live every single one of those.

    He felt it was his duty to accompany Phil through the night. To sit with him on his final journey, as much for Phil’s family as for the man himself.

    Equipped with almost every item of cold weather gear the British Army of the late 1990s possessed, plus a sleeping bag and a flask of hot tea, Padre Tom followed the line of footprints through the snow to the stricken aircraft.

    Walking through a potential minefield “concentrated the mind a bit,” the now Reverend Tom says. “I trod carefully in the footprints that had been laid before me.”

    “I just thought, ‘I need to be out at the crash site’. Phil Jarvis was still in the wreckage. I thought, ‘I just have to go and be there’. I felt someone needed to be with him during the night.

    “I got a warm jacket and a Twix and went out to the site. I remember it being cold. I can still remember the smell of the burning helicopter in my nose. I felt ‘this is where I’m staying’. So I stayed with him.”

    There he sat. Zipped up to the neck in his sleeping bag and sipping his tea, Padre Tom kept Phil company through the night.

    He said he could see an illuminated cross on the top of a hill further up the valley. “It spoke to me at that moment, that despite the horrendous thing that had gone on, I felt God saying to me personally, ‘I’m with you in this situation’.”

    The watchkeepers in the operations room crunched out to the aircraft each hour, checking on the pair and topping up the flask.

    The story of Padre Tom’s actions spread throughout the Army Air Corps and I was able to meet him and thank him personally some years later.

    Berry takes solace from Laurence Binyon’s poem For The Fallen, the artistic manifestation of Remembrance, particularly the line “age shall not weary them”.

    He says that line is “a central truth” about Phil. “There’s no silver lining to his death, but there is a truth to it.”

    He adds: “The Phil in my memory is 27 years old, happy and smiling. He’s the guy who flew his helicopter to [my] cottage and dropped it as low as he could into a field. He dipped the front of it as if to bow to me while I stood on a garden table and waved into the cockpit at him.

    “Those are the things I remember. I try to keep them happy when I reflect on what Remembrance means. It has a very significant meaning for me. It does relate to Phil because he is one of those fallen. That kind of altruism needs to be recognised and remembered.”

    Remembrance Sunday, he says, “is a moment in time where we can give a little bit of space and consideration to people who are willing to give of themselves for purposes that aren’t always close to their own hearts but that will have a significance for other people.

    “The life that I have now and the children that my wife and I have and the successes they’ve had; that’s something Phil would have relished. The idea that he might have been able to come and visit and stay with us and be a part of an extended family is something that he definitely would have enjoyed, and we would have enjoyed as well.”

    Rev Tom says it’s important to remember people who’ve given their lives in the service of the country. “If we didn’t have Remembrance it would be easy to forget,” he says.

    Stephen says his understanding of Remembrance has changed in the years since he lost his brother.

    “As children, we didn’t understand what Remembrance was. You recognise a few of the family names of your friends that were listed on the memorial, but you didn’t understand what it was. You kept listening to hear your family name. And then one year your family name was added to that list.

    “Remembrance is about looking at the past, but also the current and the future because if we’re going to make a future, we’ve got to learn by the past.”

    He says his four children now “understand more”.

    “They know Chris. They know about him. They wish they could see him. We all wish we could, just once more.

    “That’s the price for trying to keep the world a stable place.”

      1. Respect to the Reverend, sitting out all night in freezing weather, in a wrecked helicopter, surrounded by landmines, to honour the dead pilot who was also there. Tough bloke. A vigil for the dead. Would that there were more with that kind of backbone, the world would be a better place.

      1. Made me remember a job I had in the 2000s. Integrity management review in Kuwaiti oilfields, up by the Iraqui border, sparked by a fire that resulted in the death of a Pakistani fue tanker driver – I believe he drove into a pool of oil, causing ignition and his death. This was about 4 months before we got there, and the poor bastard was still in his cab, all burned and, well, horrible.
        I thought that bodies had to be buried within 24 hours of death, but perhaps a Pakistani (muslim?) doesn’t count in their perverted religion?
        THis story of th Chopper pilot reminded me. I wish it hadn’t. I guess also that the dead driver’s family had to pay for the body to be either repatriated or buried, and based on the terrible pay and conditions these guys worked under, probably couldn’t afford it.

  79. Found this in a list of quotations I keep, that mean something to me, and feel that it applies nicely to Lottie:
    A saying from one to another during the period of Yom Kippur: “May you be reinscribed in the book of life”

  80. -https://scontent.flhr10-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/401029692_10163061880878362_8901741594152417727_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=rBxJr2lBqcgAX8Xez4K&_nc_ht=scontent.flhr10-1.fna&oh=00_AfD8GSY7Dh7A28WZQoleqONYZlDwJftwt2YfXa_jvL3ROQ&oe=65541E30

  81. A very late thought for the day:

    LotL was part of a community who generally support each other, “fight” each other, and return to the fray with open minds.
    And she always returned, giving as good as she got, however much she was teased.

    May she rest in peace.

  82. Referring to the Israel – Hamas fighting, a quote I just found from Franz Kafka: ““All war is a symptom of man’s failure as a thinking animal.””

  85. Have we done Wordle today?

    Wordle 874 3/6

    🟨⬜⬜🟨⬜
    🟨⬜🟩⬜🟨
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    1. Not as far as I know, Sue. Snap.

      Wordle 874 3/6

      🟨⬜⬜🟩🟨
      ⬜🟩🟩🟩⬜
      🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    3. Not aswell as everyone else

      Wordle 874 4/6

      🟨⬜⬜⬜🟨
      ⬜🟨🟩⬜⬜
      🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜
      🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

  86. Cat litter for pupils rumour denied by school in letter
    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-67377626

    A school has been forced to deny online rumours that it was providing litter trays for pupils who identify as cats.

    West Monmouth School in Pontypool, Torfaen, wrote to parents this week saying there would be no special treatment for “pupils who might identify as an animal of any kind”.

    The rumour followed a hoax in the United States about students who “identify as cats” or “furries”.

    Torfaen council confirmed the school’s letter was genuine.

  87. BBC headline; “Macron calls on Israel to stop killing Gaza’s women and babies”

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-67356581

    ““De facto – today, civilians are bombed – de facto. These babies, these ladies, these old people are bombed and killed. So there is no reason for that and no legitimacy. So we do urge Israel to stop.””

    Is it me, or are the meanings of headline and Macro’s words quite different?

    3. Macron is a small opportunistic man. He has moreorless wrecked France and its economy. His following of the globalist agenda has meant the invasion of France by radical Muslims and other assorted criminals.

      Those imports have been defecating and littering in the boulevards of Paris and other cities, have deliberately set fire to churches and cathedrals in their promotion of the mad religion calling itself Islam.

      France is a predominantly Catholic country worshipping Life and has no no want of the perversions of an alien religion worshipping Death.

  88. Goodnight, all, on this sad occasion. Armistice Day tomorrow. I shall be laying a wreath in memory of those who died for our freedom. I hope we don’t have an earthquake as they turn in their graves over what we have become.

  90. Blimey I’m late,we have been to a wonderful social gathering (piss up) with our wonderful neighbours .
    I’m a bit pissed but who cares..
    Good night.🤭🤗 hic

  91. On this sad day that we learnt of Lottie, we can but hope she is at peace. But we also know she would be putting to rights the messy libraries she finds wherever she is, cheers Lottie, we shall miss your comments here…..slurp, hic

    1. After being absent most of yesterday I missed the sad announcement but have read down to find it.
      Rest in peace, Ann.
      😢😢😢

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