Friday 16 October: The three-tier system won’t beat Covid but will inflict more economic and human suffering

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its comments facility (now reinstated, but not as good as ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/10/14/lettersa-circuit-breaker-risks-triggering-endless-cycle-lockdowns/
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/10/15/lettersthe-three-tier-system-wont-beat-covid-will-inflict-economic/

683 thoughts on “Friday 16 October: The three-tier system won’t beat Covid but will inflict more economic and human suffering

    1. Good Morning, sos

      I’m still catching up blogwise but it appears that you had some rollicking good fun last night. Not that anyone who went to Pembroke could ever have the fainest clue about the creditworthiness of any earthly entity, no matter what their career might have been, as compared with someone who has spent much of her life with her fist up the @rse of a ewe. JSP rools, OK!

      Still laughing…It has made my morning.{:^))

      1. I was merely making observations from my side of the fence.
        One man’s fence is another woman’s offence.

  1. Russia getting the blame for spreading fake news about our vaccine apparently.
    Not sure if I have seen any though.

    1. Russia spreads fake news claiming Oxford coronavirus vaccine will turn people into MONKEYS in social media disinformation campaign – portraying Boris Johnson as Bigfoot. 16 October 2020.

      A smear campaign has been launched in Russia to discredit the coronavirus vaccine developed by Oxford University scientists.

      It aims to spread fear about the vaccine with ridiculous claims that it will turn people into apes because it uses a chimpanzee virus.

      Images and video clips suggesting any vaccine made in the UK would be dangerous are circulating on Russian social media.

      Aside from their being no Oxford university vaccine to take and if there were it would not be available in a Russia that already has two of its own the “smear campaign” is literally childish.

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8845937/Russia-spreads-fake-news-claiming-Oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-turn-people-MONKEYS.html

    2. But there is an item in the DT claiming that Chinese vaccine is safe.
      Queue up for your lethal dose of liquified bat.

    3. Russia spreads fake news claiming Oxford coronavirus vaccine will turn people into MONKEYS in social media disinformation campaign – portraying Boris Johnson as Bigfoot. 16 October 2020.

      A smear campaign has been launched in Russia to discredit the coronavirus vaccine developed by Oxford University scientists.

      It aims to spread fear about the vaccine with ridiculous claims that it will turn people into apes because it uses a chimpanzee virus.

      Images and video clips suggesting any vaccine made in the UK would be dangerous are circulating on Russian social media.

      Aside from their being no Oxford university vaccine to take and if there were it would not be available in a Russia that already has two of its own the “smear campaign” is literally childish.

      https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8845937/Russia-spreads-fake-news-claiming-Oxford-coronavirus-vaccine-turn-people-MONKEYS.html

      1. If only it could turn our leaders into MONKEYS. We might get things done properly then.

  2. ‘Morning all. A great letter today, the essence of which can be applied to so many industries.

    SIR – Britain’s marine business (Letters, October 15) has not developed like that of our competitors across the North Sea and elsewhere, primarily because it has not been understood by government for decades.

    Shipbuilding involves procurement, integration, scheduling and assembly of many parts and systems. The value of a modern specialist ship is derived from the contents being more valuable than the hull. The suppliers of the contents vary in size and stretch across Britain, so the greater value is transferred into the supply chain, whether it is design, project management, hydraulics, refrigeration, compressors or electrical distribution panels. A specialist ship typically will last 30 years, so support from suppliers will also last that time.

    Apart from naval ships, shipbuilding in Britain has been almost entirely ignored. This need not be so. Regular orders from the Government for research and support ships will ensure that subcontractors continue to thrive, and lead to export business for their specialities. Stop-start is commercially unsustainable and creates extra costs for naval ships built in Britain.

    Government procurement decisions must take account of the benefits of employment, skill retention and development, the countrywide supply chain and taxation. Making decisions based solely on the tendered cost from somewhere else mightily disadvantages this country.

    Whether classified as warships or not, the Fleet Solid Support Ships that have been considered for some time should be built in Britain.

    Gregory Darling

    Co-Chair, Marine Industries Leadership Council

      1. It’s very easy to be dismissive with ‘MRD’. Is it unreasonable for him to be supportive of the major industry that he represents? If he can’t support and promote marine engineering, who can?

      2. He is absolutely right.
        And unlike the HS2 proponents, he is perfectly open about his expertise and interests.

    1. If the UK specialist suppliers and contractors are good, deliver as agreed, and at a competitive price, then they will get the work wherever the shipyard might be. If, however, they are a British Leyland, then they will wither & die in a spray of ridicule. If Germany can make a success of tech, then the UK should be able to as well, since the UK sprouts many more patents and inventions per capita than anywhere else.
      Unfortunately, British management is like that at BL. Utterly f**king useless, or worse. So British companies don’t get the work.

  3. How to defeat white identity politics. Spiked 16 october 2020.

    This should be understood against a particular backdrop. Britain’s white working class has been on the receiving end of abuse for years. Just like Hillary Clinton’s ‘deplorables’, they have been told that they are racist, homophobic and Islamophobic. They have been told that they are privileged due to the colour of their skin, even though their lives are hard and often disappointing. They have endured decades of contempt from politicians, the media and academics.

    The authors solution to these truths is to continue in the same fashion until we are finally erased from existence.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/16/how-to-defeat-white-identity-politics/

  4. ‘Morning, again.

    This is 5-Star, gold-plated drivel. I wondered how long it would take Blue Peter In A Field to clamber on to this ridiculous and tiresome bandwagon. I certainly can’t recall seeing any signs banning bliks from the countryside…

    The British countryside is racist, a Countryfile presenter has said, revealing that Black Lives Matter has led her to re-evaluate her own behaviour.

    There was debate over an episode of the BBC show earlier this year when Scout Ambassador Dwayne Fields presented a section about perceptions by ethnic minorities of the countryside.

    The report focused on research from the Government’s Environment Department, published last year, which said that some ethnic groups felt UK national parks were a “white environment”.

    Ellie Harrison, a presenter on the show, has spoken up on the issue and said that ethnic minority people do face discrimination in the countryside, and there is “work to do”.

    She said the huge reaction on social media to the programme had taken the show’s producers a week to read and sort.

    Ms Harrison wrote in Countryfile magazine: “I spooled through the comments, which broadly came in three flavours: ‘I’m not racist so there is no racism in the countryside’; ‘I’m black and I’ve never experienced racism in the countryside’; and importantly, ‘I have experienced racism in the countryside’.

    “So there’s work to do. Even a single racist event means there is work to do. In asking whether the countryside is racist, then yes it is; but asking if it’s more racist than anywhere else – maybe, maybe not.”

    The presenter also said she felt she needed to change her behaviour in the wake of the Black Lives Matter movement, doing more to confront racism instead of simply listening to people of colour.

    “Until this point, I believed ignorantly, that me being not racist was enough,” she explained. “I believed that I should keep quiet and listen to black people.

    “That because I read and loved every Alice Walker book as a teenager, have watched Oprah every day since I was a youngster…it wasn’t my problem.”

    Ms Harrison added that she is sometimes too polite to those close to her who say racist things.

    She said: “There is a big and crucial difference between being not racist and being anti-racist. At times in the past I have given measured and polite replies to people – sometimes close to me – who have said racist things.

    “But being anti-racist means being much clearer that it isn’t acceptable…Let the knife and fork squeak uncomfortably over supper.”

    The Campaign to Protect Rural England has vowed to remove barriers to the countryside for non-white people.

    It has said in a mission statement: “The countryside is for everyone. We will only achieve a countryside that’s rich in nature, accessible to everyone and playing a crucial role in responding to the climate emergency if we end the racial inequalities that exist in engagement with the countryside, confirmed by powerful testimony from individuals and communities and solid data.”

    1. The only racism is coming from BLM, and the only resistance in the countryside is from their urban values despoiling the beauty of the countryside. The same applies to townies of any race, and most rural ire is directed at urban louts from our own culture.

      Ellie Harrison is very attractive, but she does not need to pander to BLM racist fascism just because her bosses tell her to.

      1. Her mortgage depends on pandering to her Beeboid bosses.
        But I suspect she is also very stupid.

      2. She’s a child, brainwashed in school and tertiary education and brought up at home, by her own admission, on Alice Walker (The Colour Purple) and Oprah Winfrey – I see no hope for her.

        1. Considering my admiration for the composer and musician Alma Deutscher, whose admirable character and intelligence can run rings round those four times her age (as I am), then there is nothing wrong with being a child.

          1. Plenty wrong, Jeremy, with those brainwashed in the English education system since late 1960s.

        2. Considering my admiration for the composer and musician Alma Deutscher, whose admirable character and intelligence can run rings round those four times her age (as I am), then there is nothing wrong with being a child.

        1. What I have seen of her she is spectacularly dim and vacuous; but very good at reading BBC impropaganda.

          I prefer ‘impropaganda’ since I can see nothing proper about it!

      1. Why are poplars always planted in a straight line? Does no one have the imagination to grow them in a copse?

          1. Ayup, Tom lad.

            On the Isles of Scilly they plant New Zealand pittosporum as rapidly-growing windbreaks in most of their fields. They are very effective but die off every 14 years-or-so on the very rare occasions that the islands suffer a frost. Since they grow so quickly more are planted after those rare cold-snap events and the new shrubs soon form a new barrier.

            The wood from pittosporum is white with pretty violet veins and is prized among model-makers.

        1. At school, our French teacher at school was French. She had been in France during the war and was a refugee as seen in the photos of columns of distraught families dragging carts along the roads.
          She loathed Napoleon. She said that it was his idea to plant poplars along the sides of French roads. They provided no protection from German planes strafing the columns of refugees.

          1. It is worth noting that a French teacher with the CAPES (Equivalent to a British teaching qualification) will be paid the full rate when he or she is employed as a teacher in the UK.

            However, an English teacher with a PGCE who wants to teach in a school in France will be treated as an unqualified teacher and paid substantially less than a person with a CAPES.

          1. ‘Morning, Bill, as I said 2 hours ago but sorry, maybe you hint larned to talk Narfuk yet. As they say up there, “Bor, yew niver ortra went!”

    2. It is indeed gold-plated drivel. The countryside is an inanimate concept which can be no more or no less ‘racist’ than a garden trowel or a tennis ball.

      1. ‘Morning, Peddy, everyone knows that a tennis ball is mostly Chinese and therefore racist.

        1. ‘Morning, Tom.

          If that were the case, they’d be mostly almond-shaped, wouldn’t they?

      2. Has anyone come out to say in what was the countryside is racist? Just because blacks don’t choose to go there doesn’t make it racist.

    3. “The Campaign to Protect Rural England has vowed to remove barriers to the countryside for non-white people. ”

      That’s a nice easy promise to make. CPRE should have the task done and dusted in less than five minutes.

      1. If they are going to let the ferals loose and encourage them to rampage (as is their wont), they should be done under the Trades Description Act.

    4. It is right and proper for the countryside and the entire country to be a “white environment”. We, the white people of these islands, made this a nice place to live.
      Just as it is normal for large parts of Africa to be a “black environment”, characterised by lots of horrible things it is probably illegal to mention.

    5. Morning Hugh,
      So does climate emergency involve warming up Northern Europe so that the natives don’t evolve with paler skin to cope with the lack of sunshine. The ignorance and stupidity of these BLM obsessives is quite astonishing.

    6. Seems to me,from news reports, that blacks and ethnic minorities are doing rather well in rural Britain.

      Their “country lines” have been a remarkably successful business plan. Running illegal drugs into the smaller towns and even villages pays rather well.

    7. What utter tosh. Just because they prefer their urban jungles doesn’t make the countryside racist.

      1. It’s going to be like the workplace target quotas, whereby 50% of visitors must be BAMEs, even though the majority of them have no great interest in the countryside.

      2. I feel Tower Hamlets (Brick Lane, Bradford, Luton … you get the picture) is not a white environment.

    8. I think Ellie Harrison has also been working as a casting director for Midsommer Murders since John Nettles retired leaving the Barnaby role to the Cameron look-alike.

      .

      1. ‘Morning, Rastus.

        I can’t stand John Nettles’ replacement, nor those who have followed on from his side-kick Jones.
        Btw, Neil Whats’isname played a baddie in the 2nd episode of the 1st series.

        1. Yep, the gardener. They think we don’t notice. Sykes was the only thing that made it watchable! Now they’ve replaced him with Paddy, even that attraction has gone.

  5. 325659+ up ticks,
    Morning each,
    We have witnessed the lies & deceit, broken promises, vows,pledges etc
    so vindictiveness along with control would be no surprise, a scorned politico is / can be a health hazard.
    Lest we forget 24/6/2016.

    The three-tier system won’t beat Covid but will inflict more economic and human suffering

  6. SIR – My wife is returning a batch of Christmas cards because she opened them to discover that the greetings inside were too relentlessly merry.

    Is it too late to produce some Covid-appropriate cards?

    Peter Harrison

    Altrincham, Cheshire

    1. I am about to design our Christmas Card for this year.
      I thought perhaps a photo of Spartie in prison garb and a Santa hat might hit the spot.

      1. Mine are at the printers. I’ve used a painting of a particularly lugubrious turkey.

    2. “Is it too late to produce some Covid-appropriate cards?” I do hope so, Peter Harrison, you doom-monger.

      ‘Morning, Epi.

  7. Morning, Campers from the Essex Gulag.
    Well, I wait to see how Essex is sealed off from Suffolk.
    Will the river crossings be manned? Armed guards at Pop’s Bridge?
    Will there be barricades, stingers and caltrops all along the A12 and the A134?
    Will I be arrested if I try to sneak across via Bures?

    1. Just take a RIB and set off to sea down the Colne one night. Then you can rock up in Suffolk and claim asylum 🙂

  8. Truth about the claims scaring us all to death: Soaring infections, teeming hospital wards, and terrifying death rates… but do the numbers justifying crippling new lockdowns REALLY stand up to scrutiny?. 16 october 2020.

    With half of Britain set to be plunged into stricter lockdowns from midnight tomorrow, you could be forgiven for thinking that, amidst all the doom and gloom, the threat of Covid-19 has never been so severe.

    But as ROSS CLARK reveals, things might not be anywhere near as bad as the fear-mongers would have you think…

    A sober look at the claims of this gigantic scam!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8845533/Coronavirus-Soaring-infections-death-rates-claims-justify-lockdowns.html

    1. Morning Minty, as much as I agree with the article, has the author a new book coming out, seems good timing to me.
      I must try and find similar articles he has written since March this year.
      Regards, Cynical VVOF

        1. His latest book I can find listed is Denial, a satirical novel about climate change. Nothing about the virus as of yet.

  9. 325659+ up ticks,
    Would it be considered audacious of me to point out that covid is being used also as a deflective element regarding other pressing issues.

    The islamic followers question,
    UK top spy chappie,
    “It is still the case that tens of thousands of individuals are committed to this ideology – and we must continually scan for the smaller numbers within that large group who at any given moment might be mobilising towards attacks,” he said.

    Should a question be raised in the house as to why the instruction manual is resting between the dispatch boxes & used as an oath taker,
    why is halal nosh on the parliamentary menu, & why is the Dover illegal entrance gap NOT got a door capable of closing.

    Could someone in the political hierarchy please clarify what stance this party will take when shortly the sh!te really does hit the fan ?

  10. Covid hysteria!
    According to the BBC, the University of York has advised self-isolating students that, in the event of a fire, they should wait behind in their rooms to let others evacuate first.

    Manhattan College in the US has distributed similarly mind-boggling advice telling students to maintain social distancing when evacuating.
    https://www.spiked-online.c

    Yeah, right……

  11. I’m currently reading Dennis Wheatley’s Gateway to Hell published in 1970, Chapter 13 called ‘Black Power’ bears a frightening similarity to the Black Lives Matter movement of today – read it and be very afraid

    1. you will probably find Dem conspiracists complaining that the Biden chair was a setup to make him comfortable and look sleepy.

      If the Trump team didn’t check that the stage setup was what they wanted, more fool them.

      How about instead of this imagined slight, Trump wanted it that way – active, vibrant and up to the job. Maybe they also arranged grandpa Joe’s chair to reinforce sleepy Joe syndrome.

    1. Unfortunately it will be shut down, not given a platform by the msm and the protagonists will be ridiculed and disgraced. For the time being. But we the people are many, and they are comparatively few. Our moment will come as the Ceaușescus discovered.

  12. The Russia delusion. Spiked. 16 October 2020.

    One key as to why might be found in observations made by a senior Russian diplomat a few years ago, when I asked him why relations between our two countries were so consistently bad. He said that he thought it made the UK feel good to have a ‘big enemy’, and that the particularly harsh tone of many UK statements might be an effort to compensate in words for its lack of real clout. It often seemed, he said, to be ‘yapping from the sidelines double forte in support of US policy’.

    Morning everyone. There is an element of truth in that in its relations with Russia the UK proves its geopolitical loyalty to the United States. This is a posture that costs Britain very little; we are not directly threatened by Russia and trade is minimal. It even explains why the MI6 False Flag operations of Navalny and the Skripals are tolerated since there is little that Russia can do in response. Protected by distance and the might of the US we may insult and goad them with impunity.

    It does not however explain everything. Russia and more importantly its leader Vladimir Putin is an ideological enemy in the sense that neither subscribe to the Western NeoLiberal consensus. This is probably because of the direct personal experience of its population with Marxism and the fierce patriotism of its President. It rejects, indeed legislates against some aspects of Cultural Marxism. Russia is paradoxically an unreconstructed ideologically twentieth Century European Christian state. This makes it an enemy of the Globalists and their ambitions, hence the never ending hostility of the MSM.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/16/the-russia-delusion/

    1. I remember the retired RAF officer we met in St. Petersburg. He had retired to Russia because his pension went further. I would imagine that in the course of his career, he had had a chance to study the country fairly closely and come to a reasonably informed decision.

      1. I wouldn’t bank on it. Sir Hugh Dowding of Battle of Britain fame believed in fairies (the little winged kind) and the ranks of retired RAF officers include a good number of outright nutters, as do the ranks of retired Army, Navy, Police and Fire Service officers, clergymen, civil servants, university professors and especially politicians.

    1. I must be special then. The latest acquaintance to catch the bug is an A&E nurse in Ottawa, we shall see how he comes out of it.

    2. With the population of over 70+ million and infections of 20,000 at an absolute peak and barely 138 deaths a day (remember that’s as many as are killed and injured on the roads *every day*) the chances of interaction are negligible.

      1. Road deaths in the UK were on average 5 a day last year. Lots of injured but not many dead.

    3. Our DiL manages a number of care homes and has to have a test before/after a visit. The staff are also tested regularly. I expect this happens numerous times in other disciplines as well.

      The number of tests completed daily/weekly is no indication of how many people have been tested.

    4. I know of a married couple who had it, she worked in a care home and caught it from a resident who was infected. The wife then passed it on to her husband.
      Of course if the care home knew about their resident having the virus, I guess they would have tried to take better precautions. In fairness to them, this did occur in March when organisations were trying to get themselves sorted.
      Both made recoveries, the old chap in the care home passed away, no doubt Covid-19 on the death certificate.

    5. Me too. An old friend complained to me on the phone the other day that her Goddaughter persists in inviting her to visit, even though it isn’t safe. Now, it’s true that when I last saw the Goddaughter she was a ditsy teenager but she’s now grown up, happily married with a teenage daughter of her own and holding down a job as a deputy headmistress. Over time she and her Godmother appear to have swapped roles.

  13. ‘Morning, Peeps.

    Some further letters on the Chinese Virus. I’m certainly with Alison Day and Christine Brown; they speak good sense. Pity no one in government is listening:

    SIR – All the tier system will do is delay coronavirus. The people who refuse to wear masks or keep socially distanced will continue to do so, and the virus will still be in the population when the lockdowns are lifted.

    Meanwhile, more damage will have been done to the economy, more small businesses will have collapsed, and people in areas of low risk will have put their lives on hold for nothing.

    This virus will not go away, so we have to learn to live with it. Herd immunity will help, even if we do not know how long it will give protection.

    Of course the numbers are going up. We are testing many more people than we were in the spring, so more cases are being detected. Students have gone back into education, people have been on holiday and have also been going back to work, and the weather is getting colder and damper.

    Though one might not believe it from the media, the situation is much better than it was in spring.

    Alison Day
    Camberley, Surrey

    SIR – Much fuss is currently being made over the Government’s decision to ignore Sage’s advice for a national “circuit-breaker” lockdown, to avoid “catastrophic consequences”.

    There is a simple answer to this row. Publish the modelling on which Sage’s advice was based. If it is correct, the Government would do well to heed it. If incorrect, it would serve as a reminder that we are led by elected politicians, not scientists.

    Chris Mastin-Lee
    Goatacre, Wiltshire

    SIR – The average number of deaths in the UK pre-Covid was 10,000 per week; that figure is currently around 8,000. The number of weekly deaths recorded since the end of July with Covid-19 mentioned on the death certificate is less than 200 per week. How can the Government justify taking away all of our liberties, and why are we accepting it?

    Each day, a breakdown of figures should show what people are dying of – whether it is coronavirus, cancer, diabetes or heart disease – to put the Government’s response to Covid into context. If we were given the facts, we would be queuing for tests for diseases other than Covid. There is no logic to any of this.

    Christine Brown
    Richmond, Surrey

      1. What we (and I mean the world, not you and me) need is a pandemic that affects the young and not the old. There would be a generation or two of difficulty while there aren’t enough young to support the old but the resulting slowing of population growth would help reset the planet’s out of control consumption.

        1. The second surge of the Black Death in the 1360s had just such a result as the youngsters had no resistance.
          By 1380, the survivors were adults and knew that their rarity could be a nice little earner. The rest is history (apart from Simon of Sudbury, for who it came to a .)

        2. The second surge of the Black Death in the 1360s had just such a result as the youngsters had no resistance.
          By 1380, the survivors were adults and knew that their rarity could be a nice little earner. The rest is history (apart from Simon of Sudbury, for who it came to a .)

  14. SIR – The Government needs to be honest with us. What is the plan if a vaccine doesn’t appear? Ministers are aware that one may not be widely available for years, so why are they stringing us along?

    The definition of madness applies to the latest lockdown: it didn’t work last time and it won’t work now either. Suppression is not eradication. We will not put up with this way of life indefinitely. Vulnerable people are not unintelligent and are well able to manage their own risk. For the most vulnerable, targeted protection is needed while the rest of the population carries on and lives with the virus, as we live with numerous other contagious diseases.

    Lynda Moran
    Southwell, Nottinghamshire

    1. I remember that at boarding school the sheet change was staggered. After one week the bottom sheet was put in the laundry basket to be washed while the top sheet became the new bottom sheet and a freshly washed sheet became the new top sheet.

  15. Oh dear, the pro-climate chsnge, anti-meat brigade with not be happy bunnies…once again the BBC has been shown to be partial, and they nearly got away with it, having kept it on iPlayer for not far short of 12 months. Merely removing it so late in the day simply isn’t good enough; there should have been a prominent notice as to why it was removed. So, it’s really a case of “Job (nearly) done”.

    From the DT:

    The BBC has pulled a climate change documentary from iPlayer after farmers complained that the coverage of the meat industry was not impartial.

    The documentary Meat: A Threat To Our Planet? featured presenter Liz Bonnin visiting factory farms in the United States and South America. She was viewed crying, and said that filming the show had caused her to go mostly vegan.

    However, British farmers complained that the BBC show did not show the eco-friendly farming that takes place in Britain or make enough distinctions between cattle ranching in the Amazon and grass-fed regenerative beef farming in the UK.

    The National Farmers’ Union lodged a formal impartiality complaint, arguing that the show implies that all meat consumption is devastating for the planet.

    The Editorial Complaints Unit (ECU) at the broadcaster has now found the show breached impartiality rules on controversial subjects.

    It found she ended the programme by asking viewers to consider their own behaviour, in what was effectively a call to action: “Amidst all the bad news about the damage that our modern world is causing to our planet, this is one problem we can all do something about. We can each decide what kind of relationship we want to have with the natural world. Every day, with every meal, we can choose where our meat comes from, how much of it to eat and even whether to eat it at all.”

    Because regenerative farming in the UK was not shown, but the show was aimed at UK consumers eating meat reared in the country, the complaint was upheld.

    The ECU explained :”Traditional grass-based methods of livestock production, prevalent in some sectors of meat production in Britain and many other countries, account for a significant element of global output but these were not discussed in the programme, beyond a reference to ‘Some farmers around the world…rearing livestock in a way that takes better care of the planet, using farming methods that support soil health without the need for chemical fertilisers and pesticides’, illustrated by the untypical example of a smallholder in Wales who raised chickens for his family’s consumption. As a result, viewers received a partial analysis of the impact of livestock farming on the global environment and biodiversity, based almost exclusively on intensive farming methods and of limited application to the choices open to UK consumers. In the judgement of the ECU, this fell below the BBC’s standards of impartiality in relation to controversial subjects.”

    NFU President Minette Batters said: “Today’s result, while a long time coming, provides true vindication on the points we made about what we believed to be lack of impartiality in this programme. British farmers are rightly proud of the work they do to rear quality livestock and care for the environment, and they were angry and hurt by the false impression of UK livestock farming the programme created for the viewer at home.

    “In Britain we have some of the most climate-friendly systems of food production in the world. Emissions from UK beef production are already half that of the global average and our farmers are working to become net zero by 2040.

    “UK grass-based systems are incomparable with the intensive feedlot style systems shown on the programme, and it is fantastic to see that being recognised today.”

    A BBC Spokesperson said: “We note the findings” and added that it had been removed from iPlayer, just over a month before before the 12 months it would be kept up for ran out.

    1. ‘Morning, Hugh.

      She was viewed crying, and said that filming the show had caused her to go mostly vegan.

      Can one be mostly vegan? I think it is one of those things like virginity; either you are, or you aren’t.

      1. Quite so, Peddy. That bit made me smile – but not our blubbing presenter, it would seem.

        ‘Morning, Peddy (manners).

      2. I am mostly a virgin. If we replace all our cells in our bodies over the space of seven years, and it is ten since I last laid with a woman, then I can honestly say that there is no part of me that has had carnal knowledge, and I am therefore technically a virgin.

        1. ‘Morning, Jeremy.

          Interesting concept, but misleading. By the same token it could be agued that a prisoner serving a ‘life’ sentence for, say, brutal murder, should be released after 7 years on the basis that none of the cells in his body committed the crime.

          1. A similar argument took place before the execution of Caryl Chessman in 1960.
            He was convicted of murder in 1949, but the next 11 years were the usual judicial merry-go-round.
            One final defence was that in the eleven years he became a very different person to the callow youth of the 1940s (a defence based on character, not cellular change).

          2. Logically, there should be amnesty for all prisoners after seven years. It would certainly be cheaper. It seems a rather long-winded approach making such a villain die away, cell by cell. There are old, tried-and-trusted ways to do this quite a bit quicker.

            I suspect the life sentence is less to do with retribution, and more to do with addressing the mortal risk such a criminal presents to society, that relies on memory, conditioning, culture and habit which don’t die off after seven years.

          3. Moreover, how do the cells that now constitute a 69-year old me, remember all the tuition and experiences that my long-defunct schoolboy cells learnt?

        2. Apparently Cliff Richard has remained completely celibate since his early 20’s.

          During my parents’ generation which went through two world wars and when there was a shortage of marriageable men there were many maiden aunts who strictly adhered to this description. Three of my father’s sisters: Marjorie, Lilian and Evelyn never married and neither did my mother’s sister, Katherine.

          1. In 2010, I met a lady from the Philippines who was a devout Catholic, and it was a selling point to her that I was a cantor and psalmist in my own parish church in Malvern.

            Good Catholics have to give up something for Lent, so we decided that year to give up celibacy for Lent, and very righteous it was too.

          2. For a very long time the backbone of many Infant and Junior Schools was formed of spinsters whose sweethearts had never come back from the trenches.

      3. Quite so, Peddy. That bit made me smile – but not our blubbing presenter, it would seem.

        ‘Morning, Peddy (manners).

    2. A splendid explanation of why Greta Thunberg needs to go back to school and spend her Fridays getting a broader education before condemning the omnivores.

      My reaction to this is not to make me a Vegan, but to confirm my great wariness of entering into any trade agreement with the U.S.A. and Brazil that does not acknowledge and make constructive allowance for the very different ethical standards in our farming production methods and theirs. It is quite right to use tariffs and boycotts to level the competitive edge in favour of those who farm conscientiously, and only then let the market thrash out what ends up in our supermarkets.

      1. Trade agreements can be made sector by sector as required, even product by product. The USA has shamelessly and brutally driven its exports using blackmail and embargo. It forced the EU to take “dollar” bananas following representations by senators representing Chiquita.
        Cashmere products from Scotland and Italy, among other things were banned from being imported to the USA. Our deficiency is that we have very few in the UK who can play with the big boys. None of those with the hard nosed experience and determined attitude are politicians.

      1. I can’t work out which was the least funny puppet (or marionette) during the 1950s – 1970s.

        That damn thing, Lenny the mincing Lion, or Pinky and bloody Perky!

          1. I remember that vaguely from when I was a tot. Didn’t he have a pal called Dennis Dachshund?

            I also remember Muffin the Mule …but I invariably pleaded ‘not guilty’!

        1. Sooty and sweep. Most Sootys have now taken up residence here, I don’t know where Sweep is.

          1. Sooty was OK: he kept his gob shut. I couldn’t stand Sweep; I wanted to throttle its stupid squeaky neck.

          2. What did the psychiatrist say when you told him you wanted to strangle a glove puppet?

            Good morning.

          3. I remember sitting in the psychiatrist’s waiting room next to Michael Parkinson. He suffered from a similar pathological proclivity as me, due to his threats to “throttle” a glove puppet called ‘Emu’.

            Harry Corbett and Rod Hull should thank their lucky stars we were cured.

  16. Morning all

    SIR – All the tier system will do is delay coronavirus. The people who refuse to wear masks or keep socially distanced will continue to do so, and the virus will still be in the population when the lockdowns are lifted.

    Meanwhile, more damage will have been done to the economy, more small businesses will have collapsed, and people in areas of low risk will have put their lives on hold for nothing.

    This virus will not go away, so we have to learn to live with it. Herd immunity will help, even if we do not know how long it will give protection.

    Of course the numbers are going up. We are testing many more people than we were in the spring, so more cases are being detected. Students have gone back into education, people have been on holiday and have also been going back to work, and the weather is getting colder and damper.

    Though one might not believe it from the media, the situation is much better than it was in spring.

    Alison Day

    Camberley, Surrey

    Advertisement

    SIR – Much fuss is currently being made over the Government’s decision to ignore Sage’s advice for a national “circuit-breaker” lockdown, to avoid “catastrophic consequences”.

    There is a simple answer to this row. Publish the modelling on which Sage’s advice was based. If it is correct, the Government would do well to heed it. If incorrect, it would serve as a reminder that we are led by elected politicians, not scientists.

    Chris Mastin-Lee

    Goatacre, Wiltshire

  17. Blimey. It was popcorn time on here last night involving the usual suspect. I wonder what she gets out of it.

      1. I think she does it to wind people up and then when eventually tell her to piss off it justifies her view of the world. Sad really.

        1. Almost certainly, but *why*?

          If there’s anywhere open to friendly debate; it’s here.

          She was wrong, plain and simple but there’s a difference between the economic reality of Scotland’s dependence on English cash and Scotland as a country.

          1. Ah, wibbles, you just haven’t got it; Jennifer is NEVER wrong (in her own mind). She will twist, squirm, obfuscate,introduce extraneous arguments and generally do everything to prove that she is RIGHT, even when she patently isn’t.

  18. Sharon White has said John Lewis needs to appeal to more diverse people.

    Can a person be diverse? I think she means a more diverse range of people.

    1. She’s going to kill off John Lewis. She has a ridiculous ‘woke’ agenda and needs to be kicked out.

    2. “My son’s in the African army”

      “But aren’t they all black or coloured?”

      “Only their privates.”

      “How exotic!”

    3. Ah, the ‘hopped from job to job in the civil service and never achieved anything of value but ticked the right boxes’ Sharon White?

      Lewis’ appeals to white old people because it’s traditional, reliable and consistent.

      Change that and the chain will evaporate. No doubt she’ll move on with a huge salary to another company which she will ruin with her own brand of ego and poisoned ideology.

  19. SIR – On Wednesday, my phone flashed an alert from the NHS Covid app informing me that my postcode was in the medium-alert tier.

    Meanwhile, my wife, on the other side of the table, was told she was in the high-alert tier. Should I be worried?

    James Barry

    Stokesley, North Yorkshire

    SIR – The Government needs to be honest with us. What is the plan if a vaccine doesn’t appear? Ministers are aware that one may not be widely available for years, so why are they stringing us along?

    The definition of madness applies to the latest lockdown: it didn’t work last time and it won’t work now either. Suppression is not eradication. We will not put up with this way of life indefinitely. Vulnerable people are not unintelligent and are well able to manage their own risk. For the most vulnerable, targeted protection is needed while the rest of the population carries on and lives with the virus, as we live with numerous other contagious diseases.

    Lynda Moran

    Southwell, Nottinghamshire

    SIR – All the information implies that we are putting off the impact of the virus for possibly 28 days – just in time to let it loose for Christmas.

    I don’t want that after enduring a tier three lockdown in Merseyside.

    John Bergin

    Oxton, Wirral

    SIR – We are indeed living in strange times. I never thought I would be cheering for a Chancellor of the Exchequer.

    Douglas M H Crook

    Cheadle Hulme, Cheshire

          1. His use of ‘flashed’ is not to be taken literally. It’s like ‘beam’ me up, Scotty.

    1. Good morning Bill et al.
      Bright & sunny in Derbyshire with a decent weather forecast so I should be able to get some blocks laid.

      Interesting events in the US election with Hunter Biden’s e-mails being released, as if the situation there could not get any more surreal than it already is!

    1. 325659+ up ticks,
      O2O;

      Jack S
      I didn’t read past “Gerard Batten.” Like most sensible voters.

      reply
      I can quite believe it & that is precisely why we have the odious paedophile issues.

          1. I’m locked up in Essex.
            I’ll be spending the winter polishing my white stilettos, not meeting furriners.

    1. We are probably going to have a repeat of the invisible Russian submarine fiasco of five years ago!

  20. Everything appears to be coming together for the half term lockdown as forecast weeks ago,
    Was it an order from George or Bill I wonder.
    I suppose it could have been Charles and Attenborough though.

        1. They probably assumed as it was a gym there would be all these scary big muscly men.

          It made no sense. Other than farmers with shotguns most gun owners used them for sport, not robbing banks.

          Crims can still get guns if they want them.

          I saw an article about people who fish canals with strong magnets. More guns than supermarket trolly’s.

    1. It’s probably cheaper than advertising, and also cheaper than closing his business for good.

  21. I’m sitting here with one of my cats sitting on my shoulder. I wonder what goes on in their brains. Do they have minds if they don’t have language? How do they decide what the are going to do next?
    I think I’d quite like to try the peace and quiet of no internal monologue for a day or two

    1. They’re not wholly incapable of understanding what we say to them (even if they routinely ignore us) so perhaps not having the vocal tackle to answer back doesn’t actually stop them having language? As with gorillas learning our sign language, though they can’t actually speak.

    2. Missy understands a range of expressions in both English & Swedish, although she probably can’t distinguish between the two. To her it’s just ‘Humanese’.

      1. Nope, 🙂, but it’s her favourite spot, as the skin on my shoulders will testify from her claws digging in to keep her balance.

    3. I think they have mastered the concept of mind control. I take her food to wherever she decides she wants it – ie wherever she’s laid down.

    4. They certainly do have minds and can think things out for themselves. Their language may be difficult for us to learn but we can tell when they voice their needs, wants, displeasure or pleasure.

      We took in Lily 14 months ago – she was said to be about 12, and had been in the rescue for several months. she arrived as a very frightened, traumatised and worried little cat. She’s now the boss here – assertive and quietly vocal. We’re left in no doubt what she wants.

      1. But how do they process the decision to get off my lap and go to sit on the table instead. Or to go outside, or to play with a bit of string for example. When I do something, there is a thought process whereby I thing to myself – in words, I need to go to the toilet let’s see what’s on TV, time to get up, what shall i have for dinner etc.

        Animals just do things by instinct so I’m wondering not what goes through their minds but how it goes through their minds.

        1. Lily was used to using a tray – she’s never used corners or carpets when she needs to go – but she does prefer to be outside if the weather’s nice – and she’ll use the garden instead if she’s out of doors.
          If it’s raining she’ll look out and decide to stay in. If it rains while she’s outside, she’ll shelter until we let her in. There’s definitely thought processes going on.

          1. Definitely. We had a cat who devised a strategy for getting me out of an armchair. He would make for the kitchen door, miaow to be ket through the door to the outside door catflap; as soon as I reached the door and had my fingers around the handle he would turn and race back to the armchair and settle himself down comfortably. The first time it caught me by surprise, when it occurred thereafter I realised it was definitely not by accident but a definite strategy had been worked out along the lines of “if I do this, she will do that and then…..!” I always let him win, by the way, at that particular game.

          2. I get up to go to the loo in the middle of the night and Dolly always plonks herself in the warm patch i left.

            I just point at her blanket on the other side of the bed. She gets up and goes.

          3. Cats are clever!
            The cleverest and most devious one we’ve had was Pat (b&w) b1984, d2002. He and his brother Joe were a double act. Joe found that he could bang on the windows or rattle the letter-box when he wanted to come in, while Pat sat and watched him working. Then, when the door opened for Joe, Pat would shoot in close behind.
            Pat also worked out how to open the fridge, so it had to be wired up with a bent nail on a string.
            Another of his tricks was to climb up the bookshevles – just to make us get up and give him what he wanted.
            He was a real character, who loved to eat melons!

          4. Years ago I had a cat who’d only go on newspaper – It took me ages to train her so she didn’t do it while I was reading it

          5. 325659+ up ticks,
            Morning FA,
            Clearly showing it’s true feelings & stance regarding the M s M.

      2. My dog is not slow telling me if I’m late providing his breakfast. He knows he has to wait until I’ve eaten mine, but if I get distracted, he certainly lets me know his bowl is empty when I should have filled it up.

          1. It’s a dominance thing with dogs (he’s an alpha male); I have to remind him he’s not leader of the pack (the pack leader eats first and then the others in order of dominance). It’s the same with going out the back door and the gate when we’re going for walks. I lead, he follows. It took a long time (he’d had NO discipline before we got him and had done as he liked) before he finally accepted that he wasn’t running the show!

          2. Yes, dogs are tribal. The 2 Labs had a definite pecking order. The black Lab, although slighter, dominated the yellow, but was subservient to me.

  22. Today’s World At One on Radio 4 featured historian Peter Hennessey in gloomy yet impassioned mood. He was worried about the divisions in the country caused by the crisis – England v. the Rest and, in England, the North v. the South. “They’ve always been there but this has opened them up badly.”

    He blamed Johnson who, after a good start (!) and getting everyone on side, made a big mistake in May by failing to consult with his ‘out of lockdown’ speech. This was quickly followed by the Cummings eye-test scandal, after which trust evaporated. “Where’s the PM who won the general election and started the crisis so well? That’s what’s required – the man with the will to pull the country together again.” Is that all rather simplistic?

    It seems to me that there is now another divide: how to manage the virus. That wasn’t really covered in the discussion. A winter lockdown might be very dangerous.

        1. Better but they’re making a pig’s ear of that as well. They’re creating the crisis.

      1. No, but you can manage people and that’s what they are doing. It isn’t just N/S, E/W divisions, it’s divisions within the same county (see the examples in my link about pubs’ trials and tribulations).

        1. Agreed.
          If you had the same crazy rules across the country it would become a tinderbox.
          Regularly change the areas and some people feel pee’d off but others don’t. Move the areas regularly and it keeps the country guessing. Fabricate figures (lies), get the MSM to spread them and people think they are true but probably deep down believe they’re crap. However the continuing media adverts make the majority of people think they mustn’t rock the boat and wear mask etc even when they know they’re being lied to.

          Total control? Or am I just another conspiracy theorist? I don’t think I am the second.

  23. Is YOUR son a secret Nazi? Police urge parents to watch for warning signs as high-flying A-level student 18, is sentenced for right-wing terror offences. 16 October 2020.

    A police commander has appealed to relatives to help spot the signs of radicalisation in their loved ones ahead of the sentencing of a promising teenager for right-wing terror offences.

    Digital forensic specialists retrieved 4,200 images and 302 files, including an extreme right-wing terrorist book and documents relating to Satanism, Neo-Nazism and anti-Semitism, from Vaughan’s devices.

    Yes call us your local friendly Gestapo and we will take your son off your hands for the next twenty years. You know it makes sense!

    £10 will get you fifty that the “extreme right-wing terrorist book” is that old staple The Anarchists Cookbook that has been around for nearly fifty years and can be purchased on Amazon: £17:52 for the Paperback Edition or £6.79 Kindle.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8846793/Police-urge-parents-watch-warning-signs-right-wing-terror-offences.html

    1. Yo Minty and All

      Owzabouta

      A police commander has appealed to relatives to help spot the signsof radicalisation in their loved ones ahead of

      the sentencing of a promising teenager for right-wing pro Islamic, Extinction Rebelliont and BLM terror offences.

      Airborne Porcine incoming

    2. “Is your son a secret Nazi? Does he have a toothbrush moustache and goosestep around the kitchen with his arm extended? If so, call this number…”

  24. Just been listening to the morning news – announced that BAME persons are 2.7 times more likely to die of the Covid 19 than non BAME persons and that figure rises to over 3 times as likely to die in old peoples homes !
    Actually, they said BLACK Persons, not BAME persons but I was afraid that might not look good to some eyes?
    Now, if that doesn’t show that some sort selective lock-down/isolation is required, then I don’t know what does –

    1. I wonder if it has anything to do with vitamin D deficiency? A work colleague told me yesterday that her father has gone back to Ghana and life is much more normal there. We both feel that there is a massive overreaction here. I suggested that in West Africa they’re perhaps accustomed to far more dangerous diseases and cope with that and she agreed.

      1. Most parts of Afica – South Africa excepted, have had much lower incidence of covid than we have here.

        1. And much lower average ages, and lower levels of obesity, underlying long term health conditions they would survive in the UK but be unlikely to in Africa. etc etc.

          They almost certainly have far fewer people being tested too because those who may have had it are likely to have been asymptomatic, because of the lower average ages etc.

          It isn’t comparing like with like.

          1. Quite. If they get ill it’s likely to be tuberculosis, malaria, ebola or something else that’s actually fatal. They live – and die – with that. Who cares about a virus that has a 99.97% survival rate even for older and more vulnerable folk. Live while you can.

          2. No – it’s not – but it does underline the fact that covid is more severe in the elderly and people with health problems.

      1. Sainsburys have just the facility, I am told. Bundle them into their safe space, but then you will have to stop them killing each other over religious differences.

          1. If he did that, it would prove that the countryside is indeed racist. (See previous thread).

  25. Just “attended” an online funeral. No singing. Why one earth not? Masks. Only 30 people allowed. Best to have the funeral in Sainsbury’s carpark – then you could have a couple of hundred.

        1. 325659+ up ticks,
          Afternoon KP,
          They ALL do they have been taking us to the wire for 4 1/2 years old moggy was best running an attack / defense of may, erring mainly on defence.

  26. ‘Morning All

    With a bit of luck Twatter and Farcebook have shot themselves firmly in the face with their blatent political partisanship and censorship.Pissing prostitutes and stolen tax returns??

    No problem

    Posting Biden’s OWN statement?? shutdowns all round………….

    Bang goes their 230 immunity if The Donald is reelected

    Needless to say to get a real handle on the story you need Sky Australia

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5HfeElInSs

    Couple of twitter links

    https://twitter.com/kayleighmcenany/status/1316852273406971905

    https://twitter.com/FamedCelebrity/status/1316897983141572608?s=20

    The internet has been busy,a couple of memes for our twitterers to try posting

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fcff8aaa12e224808f140ec343ce9ff1fe88806325690c35d9d61f7ac2e608a1.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/95d7d3bb2f9aae1c2951f5b594ec8fd8ea4b216c0ad494d4786a7f68795ce398.jpg
    The Streisand Effect in all its glory
    Edit and a third
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/fb01233aad70496ce89f74496add7587ac47d51bf2dc7fa6688aff54a8bd67fa.jpg

    1. 50 years ago in Parliament that would have ended his politial career, nowadays such things are generally accepted practice.

    2. What did he stand to gain with that lie? Is he deranged? If people take vit D pills they didn’t really need, so what? If it helps, good.

      1. Anything that interferes with his vaccine plan for us all, however remote, must be rubbished. His share portfolio would otherwise be shot to pieces. The Vaccine has to be the Saviour of us all! (It won’t of course.) I foresee different batches for different age groups, and differing ‘useful’ professions. Make of that what you will.

        1. Vlad has announced this morning that Russia’s latest vaccine will only protect for six months!

      2. The highest rates of covid is in burka towns. But you are not allowed to say so as that would be islamophobic.

    3. 50 years ago in Parliament that would have ended his politial career, nowadays such things are generally accepted practice.

      1. Sorry Sos, didn’t read any further. He should be dismissed if he’s not going to resign. Hopefully it will make people think, well, if he lied about that what else did he lie about?

  27. The Independent reporting that one of the mega- labs has breached health and safety rules with scientists warning of chaotic and dangerous practices at the Milton Keynes Lighthouse Laboratory facility The BBC and The Independent jointly found that Covid security was not followed by the staff. A virologist at the laboratory reported that the training of staff was inadequate. How can we trust the test system.

    1. On last night’s News, one leading researcher was said to have resigned his post there because of the appalling conditions.

        1. I’m just back from doing everyday stuff – shopping, prescriptions for OM and doglet, petrol etc and have caught up on the wicked witch of the norths daily PPB! She really is an unpleasant piece of work. Smug, abrasive, common but mainly not awfully bright. She s helped enormously by the pathetic and supine Scottish press who really don’t have the bawls to take her and her ridiculous untruths, on! Oops!

  28. Nicked

    I’ve just informed my suitcases that they won’t be going on holiday this year.

    I’m now having to deal with emotional baggage.
    I’ll get me coat……..

  29. Just back from two hours enjoyment with a very successful bonfire. I have left it to “chunter” – as we say in our family.

    Now for the crossword. Bugger – a very good cross word…{:¬))

        1. They are no longer on the side of the long-suffering public. These same policemen have to go home and be the general public. Schizophrenia rules OK!

          1. I heard it said that at the demo where the police got batonny the best way to upset them was to ask
            “When are you and your family moving in to barracks??”
            “Because you sure as hell won’t be able to live among us after this”
            Policing by consent another fond memory,just like “equal justice for all under the law”

    1. I don’t know about the questioning part, but PC Plod is definitely wrong about a medical exemption certificate – there is no need to obtain or show such a document to anyone, shopkeeper or police.

    2. About 50 years ago I was ” caught” by TVP for a motoring offence which I was absolutely certain I had not committed.

      Unfortunately I could not afford to fight it in court and in those days there was no photographic evidence, nor could I have found the one person who could have exonerated me, the Landrover driver. It was at night on a Bank holiday Monday and I think the policeman was filing a quota.

      The summons claimed I had crossed six feet of double white lane when overtaking a Landrover.

      What it failed to state was that the Landrover was towing a trailer full of rowing eights and that the police car, which I had seen pulling out of layby, could not possibly have seen where I had pulled in unless the policeman could see around corners.

      I wrote to the court, pleading guilty and was given the lowest possible penalty. That policeman was a liar.

      A similar thing happened where my son was stitched up over an accident where even the most cursory glance at the scene would have shown he could not have been at fault.

      As a result I would now be extremely wary of helping the police.

      1. I had to go to a speed awareness course after getting a ticket once. It wa after work and I was running late. When I arrived, I thought it would be funny to say “Sorry I’m, late, I had to drive like the clappers to get here” but I chickened out when I saw the instructor who looked as though he had sucked on a couple of lemons before starting the class.

        1. I’ve been lucky, because given the number of cameras and the constantly changing limits, I think it’s nigh on impossible to avoid tickets in the UK!

          Unless one is happy getting a rear-end shunt or involved in a fight with someone who gets impatient, speeding is almost forced upon drivers.

          My landrover is getting to the point that its residual value is nil; very high mileage, old, but in goodish condition.

          If A.N.Other driver wants to argue, I’m happy.

          I weigh 2.5 tons and your fancy new expensive luxury car will crumple like a Japanese fan if you hit me.

          I’ll just reverse and carry on, your call…

          1. “I weigh 2.5 tons” – on top of the landie makes quite a weight. I’d be scared!

          2. There are times when I think that for all your pedantic “cleverness” that you really don’t have a clue about things like poetic licence, hyperbole, or use of English to paint a picture.

          3. ‘Twasn’t really pedantry, more a (failed) attempt at humour. Your post made me smile.

      2. I was given a completely unjustifiable speeding fine and endorsement when I was a student and in my MGA. Like you I could not afford to fight the case as I was an impoverished student and according to the AA the Police won 99% of all traffic cases so it would have been a waste of time.

        As in your case the policeman was a nasty little man trying to get promotion.

        I then resolved never ever to help the police – of course I relented but would I help today’s police? I am not sure.

    3. That daft bint Sara Thornton used to be Chief Cunstable. Before she became even more “important”

    1. Completely risible. How can they not realise what idiots they look when they come out with this sort of rubbish!

    1. With e risk of repeating my self again,……….everywhere the religion of peace is or goes to, they stir up trouble. Or have even been known to harbour certain ‘internal’ indifferences.

  30. According to the BBC report, somewhat incoherent as it is, the WHO have decided that all the drugs being used to treat Covid-19 are completely ineffective.
    Well, it’s vaccine or nothing then. I wonder what the implications are for “following the science”, lockdown, further restrictions, more money to outsourcers testing, and Big Pharma raking it in?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-54566730

    1. So what did they give Trump then? An overweight, fast food eating 74 year old is supposed to die if they catch the blessed virus.

        1. Except for the white rings around his eyes from wearing swimming goggles prior to the spray tan.

    2. Incoherent indeed. The headline refers to remdesivir but the text mentions others and says “their trials on hydroxychloroquine and lopinavir/ritonavir were stopped in June because they had already proven ineffective.” The study didn’t include dexamethasone. Is the last word with the WHO? There must be hundreds of other trials going on around the world in hospitals, performed by medics using their own initiative.

      This story didn’t feature in R4’s The World At One. If it is mentioned in a news or current affairs programme, I hope it doesn’t get the Today treatment:
      Presenter: “Is this the end of drug trials?”
      Resident expert: “Yes.”
      P: “Do we have to wait for a vaccine?”
      R: “It looks like it.”
      P: “It’s a grim winter ahead, isn’t it?”
      R: “I fear so.”

  31. Boris telling businesses to prepare for a No Deal Brexit on Jan 1 2021.He will await the EU making a move but from his discussions with the EU this is unlikely [BBC TV News]

    1. I think it’s a widespread confusion that the EU gives a stuff about trade. To them, it’s just another weapon to further their agenda.

      Look at how it acts – taking money from the earning countries and giving it to the failing ones. That isn’t a policy to create growth and wealth, it’s one to force socialism on people.

      Such a policy is designed to buy votes for the political class. Trade is simply a means to continue that policy.

    2. He should have been telling people to prepare for a proper Brexit the moment he got a majority. That he didn’t and he’s still pretending the EU will do anything other than look after its own interests and shaft us at any and every opportunity speaks volumes.

  32. 325659+ up ticks,
    You cannot be over cautious when regarding this “in name only” tory party and the elusive deal not being nailed down, the rhetoric of a man who is now saying two scaffold boards must be inclusive when making the bed to ensure the 6′ 6″ 6/8s spacing.

    Would be best to incarcerate a few political high rankers ( not rhyming slang) to be released on NO DEAL being obtained.

    I believe it is the last chance, to repeat the post 24/6/2016 fiasco of trusting in the name only tory party along with lab/lib will most definitely
    bring about rapidly the final demise of a once decent Country.

    Ps
    I know.

    1. When a student I had a three-week job changing the bloody things for Initial Towel Services – my route was the whole of Cornwall and establishments ranged from Abattoirs to banks. All said and done I have NOT succumbed to Covid (yet)!

    1. “Yes, it wasn’t her fault that her quick reactions on an emergency stop propelled me through the windscreen”

    2. ‘Twas her three point turn what done it; it was supposed to be with the car – not my effing arm …

  33. If anyone needs a laugh, just go to Matt Hancock’s Twitter feed and read the comments. (I don’t suppose he every does.)

      1. There are huge numbers of comments. I may be wrong but I don’t think you need a Twitter account to access it?

    1. It’s quite possible of course the vaccine has been in use for at least a decade.
      We see plenty of people with an Orange tan, in some pubs we have seen a great Ba Boon and of course DIY has become more popular and lots of Man drills are out there.

    1. “Contractors drained the lake at Parc Cwm Darran near Bargoed in 2013 to carry out maintenance work. Secretary of the angling society, Jesse Pugh, said: “Membership dropped off dramatically after that.””
      It would, boyo, it would.

    2. When asked for a comment, a council spokesman shrugged his shoulders and said “Hard cheese”.

  34. And, just to round it off, view from t’other end of 1st course:-https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7b0c67269ff11c7cc2eed83e6c104ac6b0137a81dfd34e5414a4dbac940b24c1.jpg

    And the three courses done from both ends:-
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ed3337ff1e4ce953e45f71b8a29582d832f077959671bf1287b8d57003917f7c.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f07fb845f2a66748e95a4b01d09baf3c7b14c6ba020db12aab8a4d68fa4e5645.jpg

    Next task is to dig out another 10′, get the shuttering placed & levelled, carry half of the ton of concrete ballast that was delivered t’other day up the site, then mix & pour.

    Then it’s purchase & have another 50 blocks delivered and carry them up the garden and then get that lot laid!

      1. The yellow line is to give an approximate line for digging & shuttering.
        I was laying to a length of white string, better seen in the later shots.

    1. No worries. I’ve seen “Pulp Fiction”, and know how to stick a needle in someone.

  35. That’s me for another day. Brilliant bonfire. Sad funeral – though the chap doing it was very good. Another next week. Neither deceased had any connection with covid – though no doubt their deaths are included in the false statistics.

    Will join you tomorrow, all being well

    (By the way – an unexpectedly good series (3 episodes) on PBS America about Alfred the Great – a chap of whom I knew nothing except the “cake incident”. Presented by Michael Wood – who is not one of the many “look at me” telly tarts).

    A demain

    1. Used to be known as The Thinking Woman’s Crumpet.
      His books on the Anglo-Saxons are good.
      .

      1. I’ve got his book on following in the footsteps of Alexander the Great, but I haven’t got round to reading it yet.

          1. I’ve been to some of the places where he was, like Kavala in Macedonia and I’ve seen the artefacts from Vergina in the Thessaloniki museum.

          2. It’s extraordinary what he achieved with relatively few men.

            History is packed with determined men who conquered all they could see.

            I get a lot of pleasure reading histories of the great military geniuses/ruthless bastards.

            Mongols under Khan and Tsubodai and Arabs under Mohammed being prime examples.

            Big Mo’s particular genius was combining conquest and greed with religion. Mao Tse Tung might be the nearest recent eqivalent where his politics was his God.

          3. Never mind the paucity of troops, he was only 33 when he died, having conquered most of the then known world!

          4. What always intrigues me is how men so young can inspire much older men to follow them..

            Even yer generally sensible Brits followed Pitt the younger.

          5. Charisma, bravery (none of his wounds was in his back) and above all, military flair and ingenuity so he was successful.

          6. Indeed.

            I always wonder whether in such cases their genius is in their ability to listen to the advice of those more experienced and see the opportunity that the more cautious miss and then strike.

            Hard and fast.

          7. He was very innovative and didn’t always go for the tried and trusted. I suspect the story of the Gordian knot sums him up – cut to the heart of the matter.

        1. I have his book on searching for Troy. I was very disappointed with it despite thinking he was a very good historian.

      2. Joan Bakewell was known as the Thinking Man’s Crumpet. Does that make her the first telly tart?

  36. Yesterday I created two bar charts based on a spreadsheet called COVID-19 situation update for the EU/EEA and the UK, as of 15 October 2020 which I directly imported as raw data from https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea.

    These presented cases and deaths in various countries in the EU/EEA and UK as published by the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control.

    Whist this data is not necessarily that accurate due to compilation and presentation errors, it is neverthess a better basis than R rate or Rate of Increase in Infections for the creation of a more meaningful representation of the relative effects that the COVID-19 virus is having on death rates across countries in the European continent.

    With that in mind I have created a derived column in my spreadsheet entitled 14-day deaths per 10k cases which I think enables a better visualisation of where the UK stands compared with its neighbours:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/835652d8f4ecd29a620f0a037a7f62da42e84556ecce0d3cf901aba96730ab50.jpg

    1. I would be interested to hear your interpretation of the table – and your conclusions, A O’E …

      1. Hi lacoste

        I published the EU/EEA and Uk 14-day deaths per 10k cases bar chart as soon as I had generated it from the raw data.

        Before deliberating on the bar chart I have been checking a few values to check I haven’t made any mistakes that NOTTlers are very good at pointing out.
        (I’ve included the link to the raw data so everyone can find flaws in the way I developed the derived measure of 14-day deaths per 10k cases )

        Assuming I haven’t gone wrong somewhere, Sweden stands out as having quite a low recent death count per 10k cases which could be down to their policy of just restricting school closures to 16 year olds and younger as the only virus control measure. This led to an initial unacceptably high death rate amongst the elderly. Nevertheless their observation that the population had gained an inexplicable level of immunity considering their observed antibody level could mean that their hands-off policy has paid off in flattening their death count in their second wave.

        That’s as far as I able to comment at the moment.

        1. You single out Sweden for a low rate, AO’E; however, Slovakia, Finland and Slovenia have comparable rates – what did they do right?

          1. Less concentrated populations and lower numbers of vulnerable Bames, particularly Somalis?

          2. Yes, they do stand out as outliers but I haven’t thought about those yet.
            This death/case ratio neverless raises some interesting questions as distiinct from the basic bar charts that attempt to show miniscule death rates as low as 0.2 people and lower and even negative values for Ireland!

          3. I suspect the Baltis are enriched, though.

            Looks like the Baltics are missing a sea.

          4. Just posted two maps showing some correlation between air travel within Europe and Baltic deaths per 10k cases of COVID-19.

          5. I’ve always said there was NO point in locking us down and leaving the ports and airports open.

  37. Evening, all. The government has completely lost the plot. People have been making strenuous (and expensive) efforts to keep businesses going despite everything, only for the idiots in Westminster to stymie all their efforts. Here is an article which highlights part of the absurdities (as well as the difficulties) of the 3 tier system: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8845475/Devastating-coronavirus-rules-mean-landlords-face-ruin-ROBERT-HARDMAN-examines-effect-owners.html?utm_campaign=1575132_16%2F10%2F2020&utm_medium=dotmailer&utm_source=Countryside%20Alliance&dm_i=44G9,XRDO,1MJH5T,473G5,1

    1. Where is the million man march on Westminster to show what we think of the complete shower posing as a government?

      Good evening, Conwy – I am really leaving now… TTFN

      1. ‘Bye Bill. Stay safe – red wine is a protection against C19, remember 🙂 All that resveratrol.

          1. I must say was a bit taken aback. Our fab pharmacist is young and very dynamic and is training to being able to diagnose and write prescriptions. This, however, I find very scary.

          2. I find it frightening.

            It’s OK for those who are articulate and confident enough to object and fight back, but what about the poor sods who agree and then get turned into vegetables?

            “Oh, that’s impossible” say the experts…

            Yeah right, tell that to people whose mother took thalidomide in good faith, or those who were given tainted blood and got various Hepatitis diseases and HIV.

          3. At least the pharmacist has done 4 years + training. What about the others? Student nurses? Counter assistants?

          4. Dinner ladies and lollipop people too, while we’re about it.
            Hell’s teeth, how difficult can it be…

    2. Our local pub closed last week. Not that we were regulars but did have an evening out with old colleagues – dinner etc, last January. I think we were 16 at the table that night – seems like another world.

      1. We usually have a social in January. That was the last get-together we’ve managed since meetings have ended. I’ve got a Zoom AGM tomorrow. We used to troop off to Cosford, have tea and biscuits, a good natter, get the business done and then have a meal. Zoom is not at all the same!

          1. I have only done the parish council meetings (there is, unfortunately, no other way as our parish clerk is adamant that she won’t attend in person and the room may well not be able to be made government proof – sorry, Covid compliant). None of my other organisations has felt the need to meet, but this AGM has to take place, there’s no dispensation under the constitution. The other AGMs which will need to take place under our constitutions will be in November. We could be meeting in the car park as there will probably be fewer than six attendees!

          2. We haven’t had a hedgehog trustees’ meeting but we do stay in touch by email. I don’t think our consitution specifies whwn it has to take place.

        1. I attended one zoom meeting in person to take the notes, while Jim conducted the meeting in his office – three or four others were on Zoom and I just sat in the background.

          1. There were 22 at our Zoom AGM this afternoon. But then, it was an amateur radio society, so I suppose we’re all used to talking to people a long distance away 🙂

  38. Noswaith dda I gyd.
    Phee – ew. Working in psych this evening – ‘phone hasn’t stopped ringing since 5pm. Is there a full moon tonight?

    1. Curious to now how you can be working in the Clap clinic one day and with clapped out minds another?

  39. ‘Parent shouting Allahu Akbar’ beheads Paris teacher ‘for showing pupils cartoons of the Prophet in class’: Terrorist is then shot dead by cops following chase. 16 October 2020.

    A parent shouting Allahu Akbar and thought to be wearing an explosive vest has been shot dead by French police near Paris after allegedly beheading a school teacher with a knife.

    The victim was said to have been a school teacher who had enraged parents by displaying cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed to pupils.

    Parents! Sigh!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8848509/Gunman-shouting-Allahu-Akbar-BEHEADS-man-northern-Paris-shot-police.html

    1. Just happened to have an explosive belt lying about in the shed and thought it might be fun to wear it while he was beheading the kaffir.

      Strange people we have living next door to us, aren’t they?

          1. I simply don’t understand that. It’s like all the people rooting for Biden given the apparent corruption being exposed on a daily basis…..

  40. Secret courts?????????? What next,secret transports to the camps??

    Londoners accused of breaking the lockdown rules are being prosecuted behind closed doors and under a veil of secrecy, the Standard can reveal.

    Almost 300 people — including former Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn’s older brother — have faced a Met police prosecution in the last month for allegedly breaking the pandemic controls.

    Previously, rule breakers were dealt with in open court but

    London’s cases are now being handled by a magistrate and legal adviser

    sitting in private under the Single Justice Procedure.

    The Westminster magistrates’ court cases — all relating to

    alleged breaches between late March and May — have been hidden from the

    public and attempts to access information about the prosecutions have

    been frustrated.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/covid-rule-breakers-secret-london-prosecutions-a4571843.html
    Edit
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkdHhRfWkAUYuOe?format=jpg&name=large

    1. You know what their argument would be though, don’t you?

      It has to be to prevent the spread of infection and maintain social distancing.

      1. If couples can only meet outdoors, perhaps they should make their protest by having sex in the street. Oh, and does this apply to Pants-down Ferguson?

        1. That’s OK it’s unfun.
          Never bother to apologise to me for duplications, It happens all the time as things catch people’s eye.

        2. Noli copulare!

          Boris should have enough Latin to understand this but like most of his colleagues the rules he makes are only for the plebs and not for him

  41. This. Is. Absolutely. Ludicrous.
    RFU has rejected World Rugby’s ruling to allow trans women to play in women’s rugby and is going to allow them to play in the amateur women’s game.
    Is there ANY point in women’s pursuing sporting ambition any more?

    1. It’s a disgrace.

      Ignoring the inherent dangers to real women in physical contact sport, the issue of men, and to hell with those who believe otherwise, men, playing almost any sport as women gives them a huge advantage.

      I have commented many times on this; if I was a man who was in the top echelons of my professional sport, but not quite top grade, I would be sorely tempted to “transition” and earn a fortune I could not get close to as a man.

      Athletics, golf, swimming, tennis, you name them, it is free money. to a man pretending to be a woman.

      I see girls/young women missing out on sporting scholarships to boys/young men who can’t hack it as males. I hate it.

      1. The solution is perfectly simple. Set up a Trans RFU so that every which way trans can join a team and play…

        1. Indeed.

          But it isn’t only rugby, this is happening across the board and the “Woke” are encouraging it.

          I think back to the Riggs vs Billy-Jean King matches which were attempts to justify equality of pay in competitions.

          Boy-oh-boy, is that back-firing on the women.

          1. This is the bit I don’t truly understand. Here they are, a bunch of fanatical Lefties desperate to say they support all the ‘rights’ possible (while ignoring the responsibilities) yet happily trample on one set of rights to appease another, without considering the rationale or logic of the situation.

            They’ve tied themselves in knots bending over backward (apologies for the mixing of metaphors) and have forgotten the sodding point. When we remind them they go ape and throw their poo at the walls.

        2. Or perhaps Sportswomen can refuse to compete against pretend women?
          Taking the case in point, should teams refuse to play against sides that include pretend women, they might get the point.

          1. It’s not so long ago that a huge stink was kicked up about Castor Semanya having a big advantage over other women runners and she wasn’t even trans.

          2. Caster Semenya is the classic example of “assigned at birth” – she never really had a reason to doubt her own femininity, and although she’s lost her case at every level is still protesting that she has been badly treated. None of it is her fault, but there is no question that other women have been put at a disadvantage. At least hers is not a contact sport and no bones have been broken.

          3. She is, sadly, intersex and is highly unlikely to be able to give birth. I meant (and should perhaps have found a better way of saying) that whilst growing up she had no reason to doubt her femininity, no obvious outward signs of masculinity to cause misgivings, no reason to assume that in her early running days she was not competing on the level. Clearly now, after all the testing, she is aware that she is different. But she still regards herself as a woman; after all she was reared, in good faith, in the belief that she was a girl and here we are still referring to her as “she”, perhaps because there is no polite social word for the considerable number of people who truly are neither he nor she. It is an unhappy world to have to inhabit when you don’t meet the expectations of normal.

          4. The drawback to that strategy is that it leaves the sides which include trans women as the winners at every step because the organisation is backing them and the sides who refuse to play them simply fall by the wayside… and end up looking like sore losers.

            It’s a “heads you lose and tails you don’t win” situation for women in sport at the moment.

        3. Ah, but would men pretending to be a woman then have to play against other men pretending to be a woman or would they have to play against women retending to be a man?

          Comically, to keep things fair you’d have men pretending to be women’s leagues and women pretending to be mens league.

          Of course, you couldn’t fill 3 teams with the number of trans people in the UK.

    2. Saw it a few days ago – and despaired. Especially given that World Rugby has made such a firm stand on this. I have no problem with how people want to live their lives, but when it comes to wrecking things for others …

      Yes there is a point in women continuing to pursue sporting ambition. Firstly for their own sake but also to make sure that their actions continue to be seen. Women fought their way into many sports by being there and doing it – it now seems that the exercise will have to be repeated. But what is certain is that if girls simply give up, nothing will change from this present mess.

      1. But, but, but… it’s unfair to exclude the mentally ill man from competing in women’s events if he wants to and tells everyone he’s a woman.

        That he has an advantage on size, strength, speed, damage capacity and endurance is irrelevant. It’s all about how he feels. And as we cannot be honest any more, we have to pander to how a tiny minority of people with mental health problems and drug addiction feel.

        In case anyone is unsure, I AM being sarcastic.

        What annoys most, JenniferSp is that this rides roughsod over women’s rights. Those are thrown away when these weirdos come along.

    3. Trans women should be restricted to synchronised swimming and rhythmic gymnastics.

      If they really are women there shouldn’t be a problem, should there?

    4. Trans women – a woman pretending to be a man?

      I can’t keep up. If it’s a trans man – a man pretending to be a woman then same as that cyclist – it’s because he’s crap competing against men. As it is, a male sksleton against female skeletons in impact? With high bone density, muscle density and raw adrenaline reserves? Clucking stupid.

  42. 325659+ up ticks,
    Which party’s gave them mass uncontrolled carte blanche to settle here and procreate ?
    Which party’s gave them mass uncontrolled carte blanche to settle here and procreate ?

    Who continues to support / vote for this / these party’s decade on decade seeing quite clearly the daily deterioration of these Isles decade on decade,

    https://twitter.com/GerardBattenUK/status/1317171464232181760

      1. There is no justification what so ever. There’s simply excuses.

        All religions are nuts. The very concept has done preposterous, staggering damage to the species. Islam is just bonkers. A barbaric religion from a barbarous part of the world that has never grown up to reach the smallest of enlightenment.

      2. 325659+ up ticks,
        Evening Bob,
        Which begs the question seeing as the instruction manual rest’s between the two s boxes in parliament and the politico’s swear by it, also the parliamentary canteen menu needs a serious coat of looking at as in being halal.
        Is parliament clutching an asp to the tit area may one ask ? which then leads to, WHY.

  43. They will never integrate they will always react like psychopaths.

    “A suspected terrorist thought to be wearing an explosive vest has been
    shot dead by French police near Paris after allegedly beheading a school
    teacher with a knife. The victim was said to have been a school teacher
    who had enraged parents by displaying cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed
    to pupils. A source told Le Parisien: ‘The victim had recently given a
    lesson to his students on freedom of expression and had shown the
    caricatures of Muhammad’. This led to an enraged parent confronting the
    teacher with a kitchen knife, and then cutting his head off, said the
    source.”

      1. Probably a Norwegian Methodist loner with mental health issues.

        ‘Nothing to see here, move along please.’ said the official police spokesman.

    1. It’s not even remotely rational. It’s positively insane. I had a grumpy parent approach me once and we sat down and talked about their child’s work. I do not imagine he once thought of cutting my head off.

    2. “The victim was said to have been a school teacher
      who had enraged parents by displaying cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed
      to pupils.”
      I would normally think, hah, the teacher obviously worked in an Islamic Parisian quarter. But now, there are non-Muslim people who would also be outraged by a teacher doing this. Just desserts for wrong thinking some woke people might think.

    3. Telegraph extract: “Police sealed off the area and urged residents to stay at home while they investigated whether other potential attackers or accomplices may still be at large.”
      Yes, about 1.7 million in greater Paris.

      1. Off topic.

        Nottle.

        I’m guessing that you’re well over a week in now.

        How’s it going?

        I hope you’re enjoyiing Nottle and that you’re glad that you jumped/joined in.
        }:-))

        Now, get ye out there into the shadowlands from whence ye came, and encourage more to join in.

        But don’t get lost and fail to return!

        1. I feel I’m among old friends whom I don’t quite know yet, but I have to ration myself as it can all be rather addictive!
          Again, thank you all for your warm welcome.

      1. I’ve had another letter from the beeb reminding MOH to set up payment for a TV licence. I am expecting escalation soon as this one was quite reasonable. It’s gone on the bottom of the pile with the first one.

          1. Mine hasn’t, thank goodness – but I left it to him as I used to pay it when we had to. We’ve had a couple of years off.

          2. Are there any exemptions on health grounds? Or only for those on Pension Credit? Blind people used to get free licences.

        1. I had one at the new place the other day. It seems that the previous tenant – who died in February – hasn’t paid for her licence. It’s actually very easy to make them go away – go to this link: https://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/notv – answer a few questions, and they’ll leave you alone for a couple of years at least.

          1. You shouldn’t have to.

            They have no enforcement power, htere’s no law demanding you tell them anything. Equally they’ve no right hounding you with abusive letters.

            The entire thing should be shut down and TV licencing can go do one. Rotten liars, cowards and stupid people, all of them.

          2. I agree. The letter was sent to the property. The truth is, they could send their goons, and I’d tell them to go away. I don’t have a TV. I don’t watch iPlayer. I do watch Netflix, Amazon Prime, and a certain amount of catchup TV. None of which requires a licence. I did, however, tell them I don’t need a licence, purely in the interests of a quiet life.

            The previous tenant died in February. The housing charity which owns the place notified EDF, which was acknowledged. EDF kept issuing estimated bills. By the time I arrived, they were sending four threatening letters a week. Thankfully, EDF called me today, and acknowledged their cock-up.

            I’ve moved within Guildford Borough. So I went to their website, and notified them of my change of circumstances. So now, I’ve received a bill for Council Tax for the new place. 1st October is exactly halfway through the CT year. So, one might expect a reduction, when moving from a Band F to a Band C property. Yes? Nope. They have charged me for a full year at the new place, minus single person discount, and ignored the existing 12 monthly instalment arrangement. So I’ve moved from a 3-bed detached house with 2 reception rooms to a 1-bed retirement bungalow with one reception room. And according to the Council, I now have to pay >£410 a month instead of £180, since they’re still charging me for the place I’ve left.

            Does no-one actually do their f***ing job any more?

          3. If they did, they woudn’t work in the public sector. They plunk in some numbers and post the letter. Actually *thinking* isn’t done any more.

            A chum has been sent endless demands he pay the previous tenants electricity bill for nearly five years now. Since he moved in he sent off all the details to the supplier and went to another supplier.

            They messed it up. Repeatedly. Then they sent him a bill for about £5000 and all sorts of charges, fees and hassle. He had his day in court and presented the emails sent out repeatedly asking for information, for a response and to tell him what to pay that had gone unanswered.

            So much time wasted simply because some idiot in Bangalore was too busy reading from a script to actually think and respond as a human being. Immense cost for nothing.

      1. Par for the course at the time, I think. It was amazing how many people didn’t realise what that song was about at the time.

          1. Thank you. Not very diabetic-friendly, but I’ll give it a try. Sometimes you just have to live dangerously!

          2. Thanks Geoff, I’ll tell my diabetic nurse I have your permission! (she’s about five foot tall and eight foot wide, poor girl).
            I know all about the retinopathy, but so far I’ve managed to avoid having any bits lopped off.

          3. I’ve met that sort of diabetic nurse in the past. Not a diabetic specialist, just a diabetic.

            The Lucentis injections do the trick – at least in the good eye. The other one had a retinal bleed, followed by a vitrectomy. This was successful, but the silicon oil (?) replacement for the vitreous doesn’t seem to carry the Lucentis to where it’s needed.

            Had a few bits lopped off the feet. Charcot buggered up the left one, as I was walking on scar tissue, which broke down. Declined a hugely complicated op on the left ankle, which would have fused it. Opted for amputation. A week before that was due to happen, I presented with a MRSA infection in t’other foot.

            Cut a long story short, I arranged a BOGOF deal, and haven’t looked back.

          4. Yes, she’s diabetic too, but she openly admits ‘do as I say, not as I do’.

            I’m sorry to hear what you’ve been through but glad that you can treat it all with such humour!

          5. It’s a popular disease. I’ve done much research, but being diabetic is a balancing act. I avoid excessive carbs, test frequently, and act accordingly. The retinopathy thing kicks in with fluctuations in Blood Glucose. I’ll have a hypo, and overcompensate. Next month, I’ll need an injection.

          6. That all sounds depressingly familiar. I more or less ignored my T2 for the first ten years after diagnosis but I’m paying for it now. Retinopathy seems to be a common outcome regardless of how well BG is controlled.

          7. Retinopathy is sensitive to variations in BG. So – I might have an occasion when my insulin didn’t allow for the fact that I was spending an hour chasing a mower around the garden. Hypoglycaemia ensues. So I’ll stuiff my face with carby stuff till I feel better. By which time, I’ve OD’d on carbs. I guarantee, next time I’m at the eye clinic, they’ll be worse.

          8. Ah said he butting in.

            So that is why the doctors went into overdrive checking for diabetes when I had a bleeding issue in one eye.

            Not diabetic and some laser surgery closed off the leaking blood vessels, plus a series of lucentis injections at $1,700 a pop but were not covered by the health system.

          9. Your bravery to choose to have “a few bits lopped of” both of your feet impressed us immensely at the time, Geoff.

          10. You remain an inspiration to us all, Geoff. Your blood group is B(e) Positive, I recall.

          11. Thanks Geoff, I’ll tell my diabetic nurse I have your permission! (she’s about five foot tall and eight foot wide, poor girl).
            I know all about the retinopathy, but so far I’ve managed to avoid having any bits lopped off.

        1. I think so. My missus insisted I look for it last year on one of my weekly shops. Bought 3 packs of the rubbish for her.

          1. I saw The Who at the New Bingley Hall, Stafford, in 1975. I was totally deaf for three whole days afterwards.

            I saw The Eagles at the old Wembley Stadium in 1996.

          2. Year of my birth. A good year I hope.

            Edit: As a point of interest, as a paperboy with my Palm Beach bicycle, I delivered the Robin, Swift and Eagle in Bath for several years. Eventually my headmaster forbade this extramural activity because he thought I should study intensively and aim to go to university. He was of course correct.

            My paper rounds starting at 6.00 am in the morning and 5.00pm in the evening paid a total of three shillings per week, one shilling and sixpence per week for each weekly round. Admittedly, in the depths of winter we were gifted a single boiled sweet on the morning round, usually an Everton Mint or similar.

            I was the only paperboy, working for Mr White on Coronation Avenue, who never made a wrong delivery. I was generally repaid by recipients at Christmas with donations from half crowns, florins and sixpences and shillings tendered by the appreciative but poorer folk.

    1. Hello again, AO’E: your density of air traffic within Europe map is surely pre-pandemic?
      However, the relative density in the Baltics suggests they are less likely to import Covid-19 by air.

      1. Depends on when the pandemic started.

        There is circumstantial evidence that it starrted in October 2019 and this kind of air traffic density had had no checks whatsover until the UK found that it had arrived here in March 2020.

        That’s potentially nearly six whole months of global transmission with all flights no longer than 24 hrs duration. By the time WHO were informed that it was a SARS virus at the end of 2019 the world was oblivious to the fact that there was a contagious form of viral pneumonia that could have been circulating globally for three months.

  44. Three courses of concrete blocks laid giving a total of 18.

    The footings with the 7 blocks for the 1st course laid out ready:-
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5e1c9b982238ff06bd3b929ac92a4cf5fc57b18fea85306efb40df90833c9282.jpg

    The rather cramped mixing area. Cramped because level bits of ground are few & far between.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/62338b02db6f5662ecca8bbec46a412f743068b3b931ac750cbdbdd7225eb179.jpg

    A view of the new guttering for the shed, put up t’other day, and the down pipe I did yesterday.
    The rainwater drains into a large attic cold-water tank I scrounged from someone who’d had some plumbing done.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/885b90aec87d5b940ac3499d70327a1042f2244bb610ece2fb0c8751e87c057e.jpg

    1st 7 blocks laid and the next 6 placed ready with 5 for the third course stacked at the end;
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7b0c67269ff11c7cc2eed83e6c104ac6b0137a81dfd34e5414a4dbac940b24c1.jpg

          1. Heyup!
            You’ve got to be bloody joking!
            She has enough trouble carrying the washing up the garden!

  45. The BBC website advertised this article from other websites*.
    “Woman who deliberately misleading electors in Hackney sentenced.” (This is a good start. However, the lady in question was working for the Tories, possibly. All a bit confusing. Especially for the editors of the “Standard” when came to choosing a photo to illustrate the story. Can you spot the deliberate mistake? Well, the most obvious one, anyway.)

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/woman-guilty-conservative-misleading-electors-hackney-a4571941.html

    * Most articles on the BBC website are on somebody else’s website.

          1. Look closely. I suspect that there were no SNP or Scottish Green Party candidates standing in Londonshire.

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