Friday 6 November: This lockdown raises serious questions about the PM’s leadership skills

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its comments facility (now reinstated, but not as good as ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/11/06/lettersthis-lockdown-raises-serious-questions-pms-leadership/

1,129 thoughts on “Friday 6 November: This lockdown raises serious questions about the PM’s leadership skills”

  3. “… I emailed the college’s chairman, Professor Martin Marshall (“‘Protect the NHS’ message had bad consequences, says GP chief”, October 30), on at least two occasions in April and May this year…”

    At least two.
    So that could be on three occasions or on seven hundred and nine occasions.
    Kn*b

  4. I’ve got so that I cannot put the news on, the whole mainstream media is now under the control of the NWO

  6. What I find ironic about having dialogue on faceache about Trump is the the usual suspect leftwing leaning Trump haters clearly want the job destroying NWO candidate to win by fair means or foul, they don’t really care.
    When you try to explain that Trump does more for the common working man than any President for decades and his vote among real Latino and black voters has soared they just think you are mad.
    They seem to think the NWO and the WEF are going to give them socialism or they don’t want to beleive that they even exist and what is playing out is genuine and real.
    But I will keep trying none the less.
    I think they need a few years of Biden though, but by then it will be far too late.

    1. I think you are right; every so often the electorate needs a dose of strong socialism to remind them how destructive it can be…

    2. The “Common working man” is to be disparaged, Bob. Recall the sneering at White Van Man in the UK in recent years, by that Liberal politician.

        1. Thanks for the correction. I thought it was she, but couldn’t remember the name properly.

          1. She is not Lady Nugee (her husband is Lord Nugee, but that’s quite a separate matter as she has never taken his title though they have been married for nearly 30 years, and is not obliged to do so – though she may well do it when she retires from politics, and you can make your own judgements regarding that). She is Emily Thornberry. She’s a Labour politician, not a Liberal one.

          2. It’s a courtesy title anyway as she doesn’t hold it in her own right, but a wife still takes the status of her husband.

          3. Wrong. Since you like it that way so much 😉

            A wife does not, in modern Britain, have to take either her husband’s name or his status. She is not obliged to do so, and she hasn’t done so.

          4. Glad you rose to the bait. What you were wrong about was that her husband was a lord. He was knighted.

          5. Bait – no that was you – again. I wasn’t wrong about anything that mattered, whilst you were wrong about all the things that mattered.

            And you come around here bad-mouthing me – for no reason whatsoever.

            Night night.

          6. As a point of information, her husband, a former High Court judge, was knighted, not raised to a peerage. Or perhaps I should just start my comment, “Wrong!” to make you feel at home?

          7. Well you could, but you’d be wrong and I’m not. It doesn’t matter how he acquired his title – she is not obliged to take the equivalent and has not done so. She isn’t Lady Nugee.

      2. revolting piece of work she was. Hating the very thing that her party was based to support.

        A petty, small minded, bigoted, arrogant snob – the vey epitome of modern Labour.

      3. I think that comment was made by that stout Labour lady Emily Thornberry.

        Sorry, I should have read comments below before posting this. There’s no snob as snobbish as a snob who is as common as dirt!

    3. So be it really. If Biden does win the Left will crow and crow but they’ve nothing really to wail about. They haven’t won. Trump lost.

      In our latest election Boris and the Conservative, pro democracy pro Brexit cause won, decisively. The Left still don’t understand why they lost In the US they will misunderstand why they won as well.

      If Biden continues to grow the public sector, to hike taxes and to spend money then their already fragile economy will collapse. If he continues to support these supranational causes then that will only damage votes – California already struggles for energy. He can do the right thing for his supporters and force ever more into poverty or he can do the wrong thing for them, but the right for his country.

      As a Lefty, he’ll do the wrong thing. They always do.

      1. But how long would he actually be in power? In fact he could well die in the interim period between now and taking office. What then?

        1. I suspect his presidency, if it happens, will end in a very spectacular fashion so as to give the Democrats the excuse to crack down on guns.

  7. What I find ironic about having dialogue on faceache about Trump is the the usual suspect leftwing leaning Trump haters clearly want the job destroying NWO candidate to win by fair means or foul, they don’t really care.
    When you try to explain that Trump does more for the common working man than any President for decades and his vote among real Latino and black voters has soared they just think you are mad.
    They seem to think the NWO and the WEF are going to give them socialism or they don’t want to beleive that they even exist and what is playing out is genuine and real.
    But I will keep trying none the less.
    I think they need a few years of Biden though, but by then it will be far too late.

  8. Western multiculturalism doesn’t do enough to protect democracy, warns French education minister. 6 November 2020.

    France’s education minister has said that Western multiculturalism does not do enough to protect democracy, as his country doubles down in its defence of secular values over Islamism.

    Critics who have accused France’s president, Emmanuel Macron of being anti-Muslim are “waging a war against democracy, not Emmanuel Macron”, said Jean-Michel Blanquer in an interview with the Daily Telegraph.

    Multiculturalism itself is inimical to Democracy since it requires that the popular will be suppressed. This inevitably leads to lies and propaganda and the disenfranchisement of the people and their subsequent disillusion with their leaders. It is the engine of totalitarianism!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/05/western-multiculturalism-doesnt-do-enough-protect-democracy/

    1. Multiculturalism directly threatens democracy, as it allows the rise of powerful groups in a country whose culture does not include that system of government.

  9. SS GB

    https://twitter.com/JamesHeartfield/status/1324470043128848384

    Policing by consent??

    Seems to be getting a bit of a kicking………………..

    I spent a couple of hours watching the livestream of the demo,the police behaviour was an absolute disgrace to their oath as a constable………..

    “I do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable,
    with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding
    fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and
    that I will, to the best of my power, cause the peace to be kept …”
    What a bad joke THAT’S become as old women are assaulted,handcuffed and dragged away to Police vans,or should that be Milice vans??
    I’m seething

    3. I was watching it last night as well. I especially like the line “you can stick your poisoned vaccine up your Rss” sung to the tune of ‘aye aye yippee yippee aye’. It resonated with me and for once I could tell what the crowd was singing. I hope others got the message and that it made them start to think. Good on ’em.

  10. Manchester students pull down lockdown fences around halls of residence. 6 November 2020.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5a81fa1368ff1d1807384c37159530e8e8bc6d1ee4f2346492b0bdad0b5f27bd.jpg

    Protesting students at the University of Manchester have pulled down fences that were erected around their halls of residence as part of measures aimed at controlling the spread of coronavirus during the new lockdown.

    Students living on the university’s Fallowfield campus said fences had been erected early on Thursday morning without warning from the university, and they were only able to leave through a single exit guarded by security. As well as fencing off most entrance points, the university disabled swipe cards that grant entry to buildings other than their accommodation.

    We need much more of this!

    https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/nov/05/security-fence-manchester-university-student-flats

      1. How on earth did you get out, Sue? Dig you and the inmates dig a tunnel as in The Great Escape?

        :-))

    5. My quibble is that they are pulling down the fences “because they affect our mental health” when in fact it should be because they threaten their liberty!

    6. “…the university disabled swipe cards…”

      How many of us would agree to be vaccinated if it meant having our bank cards reinstated? How many could manage without their bank cards?

  12. The voting in the Presidential election has been rigged. As Joe Biden said ” Kamelarse and I, … keep calm”. However, if the result is against Trump, why should he stand down? It would be immoral if he did so. It would be submitting to illegality. Thereby comes the threat of civil war. That outcome has surely been considered by the fixers and the Democrats. You might only contemplate that if you were sure that the military were on your side. Trump is the Supreme Commander of US forces, so have the military been suborned by the NWO?

        1. I think so, but there may come a point where it is impossible. That will be the end of the American Republic and the creation of the American Empire!

    2. Given that Twitter, Facebook, etc. have censored any positive news of Trump and most of the MSM haven’t even bothered to report it, I think Trump has done very well indeed to get where he is. Most of Biden’s innumerable shortcomings haven’t been reported in the MSM either!

  13. Morning all. Letters badly edited…..

    SIR – Steve Baker MP (Comment, November 4) says that, while he is unable to support the second lockdown, he believes that the Prime Minister is “courageously acting against his own instincts to do what he thinks right in the public interest”.

    I see nothing courageous in the Prime Minister’s action. He has taken the easy way out by relying, once more, on dodgy statistics.

    Alan Quinton

    Eastbourne, East Sussex

    SIR – I supported Boris Johnson during the Brexit campaign and the Tory leadership contest.

    However, his decision to walk out of the Commons on Wednesday meant that he did not hear his predecessor telling him some home truths. He may have sent her a note apologising, but it seemed a lack of courtesy unbecoming a prime minister.

    Philip Hall

    Petersfield, Hampshire

    SIR – I would never have expected to find myself supporting Theresa May over Boris Johnson. What a difference a few months can make.

    Charles Agg

    York

    SIR – Has Rishi Sunak let the cat out of the bag?

    Does furlough until March next year mean lockdown until then, too?

    Duncan Rayner

    Sunningdale, Berkshire

    SIR – This time around, the Government should not ease the lockdown too soon. No one underestimates the devastation lockdowns cause – but repeated lockdowns are even worse for the economy. If it is necessary to extend the present one, that is what the Prime Minister should do.

    The children can still have their toys from Father ChristmasSanta. The rest of us can take the necessary steps to suppress the virus this Christmas until a vaccine becomes available in the nNew yYear.

    Valerie Crews

    Beckenham, Kent

    SIR – This latest lockdown has not affected our ability to shop in supermarkets, either online or in -store – so why are we already seeing pictures of empty shelves and shoppers leaving weighed down with lavatory loo paper?

    It’s an absurdity thatwhich the supermarkets need to do more to stop.

    Dr Martin Henry

    Good Easter, Essex

    1. SIR – I was in a queue outside a local wool shop on Wednesday. We soon established that it was considered a non-essential business and was going to be closed from Thursday.

      Non-essential for what? I have recently spoken to a number of friends who are involved in knitting or crochet projects. These activities, even more common during lockdown, certainly seem to be essential for mental health – though I don’t imagine anyone in the Government knits, otherwise they might think differently about what is essential and what isn’t.

      Andrea Bates

      Enstone, Oxfordshire

      1. Maybe the politicos don’t want people preparing for the time when the tumbrils roll up at Tyburn with the Tories. Vive Les Tricoteuses!

    2. Oh dear, Valerie Crews! And what an odd letter from Dr MH – “lavatory loo paper“; “absurdity thatwhich“??

  14. SIR – I am not a fan of Donald Trump and think he should think accept the result of the US presidential election, which had such a voter turnout.

    However, I am amazed at Sir the hypocrisy of Keir Starmer, the Labour leader, Ian Blackford, the Commons leader of the SNP, and the BBC, who preach that Mr Trump’s reaction to potential defeat is an insult to democracy.

    They spent three years trying to frustrate and overturn the result of the 2016 Brexit referendum, which also had a high voter turnout.

    Philip Samengo-Turner

    Cirencester, Gloucestershire

  16. ‘Morning, Peeps.

    Today’s DT Leader – good question!

    “Why did the Government show us the wrong figures?

    At yesterday’s Covid press conference, the head of NHS England, Sir Simon Stevens, said that the graphs the Government shows us can be overwhelming. We can reveal that they can also be inaccurate. The graphs used at last Saturday’s press conference – rolled-out one after another to hammer home the case for an England-wide lockdown – used the wrong figures. They appeared to show that deaths in the second wave would overtake those recorded in the first. This has been downgraded. The projection for hospital admissions has also been cut by a third.

    The numbers remain high and, in the judgment of some readers, might still justify the tougher restrictions – but the error will fuel suspicions that the Government is picking the data that support its actions rather than designing its actions based upon the data. Many are, rightly, asking: “What is the science behind each measure?” What justifies closing golf courses, for instance, or a ban on tennis? As for the economy, anyone who has had to shutter a small business will look at this latest error in sheer disbelief. Decisions are being made that could wreck lives. The least one can expect is accuracy and transparency.

    “There is light at the end of the tunnel,” said Boris Johnson yesterday, citing advances in treatment and the new testing regime being trialled in Liverpool. But how long is the tunnel? The current lockdown is scheduled to last 28 days, yet the Chancellor has now extended the furlough scheme until the end of March. The cost of that move will be enormous and the implications frightening: does the Government believe we will be slipping in and out of lockdown for five months? What are its data to prove this? Are we to infer that this lockdown might flatten the curve but that, when it is lifted, infections will rise again to levels that justify further intervention? In which case, are we actually preventing deaths or delaying them?

    The rationale behind the lockdown was made explicit by Sir Simon: to protect the NHS by reducing pressure on beds. This is pressure it should have been much better prepared for given the experience of the first wave and the many months it has had to act since then. Basic errors, be they in administration or the presentation of data, undermine public confidence at the very moment that the Government is asking us to sacrifice the most.”

    1. The ghosts of Pravda editors must be looking down (up?) with pride.
      Burgess, McLean, Fuchs and Ms Norwood …. it took 70 years, but you have succeeded.

      1. My father regularly used to play squash vs. Donald Maclean when at Cambridge. Dad thought he was very bright but there were so many Lefties/Commies around at that time such that he didn’t stand out.

        Dad assured me that he had no further contact with DM after Cambridge. {:^))

        1. That must have been before he wrote “Starry, starry Night” and “American Pie.”

    2. It’s now blindingly obvious to anyone with an enquiring mind and more than two brain cells that the current actions have NOTHING to do with the ‘Rona
      Edit
      oops,’Morning Hugh irritation cancelling courtesy

      1. I went to the hairdresser’s for a haircut a couple of days ago. The lady owns the business and her daughter also works there. Last time I was there they wore full PPE and visors. This time she was wearing a mask. The rules have changed, she said. “I have to wear it in case of inspection” . It became clear that she was almost as sceptical of the rules and restrictions as myself. Her business was about 40% down on normal. There was no financial assistance as it was a limited company. “It seemed a good idea at the time”. However she said that she was better off than she might have been as she owned the premises.
        A clear thinking person. Just an ordinary person with a small business in a small town.

    3. It is rare that I find myself in agreement with Theresa May, but on this occasion she is correct – the data is being cherry-picked to support the pre-decided policy, the policy is not being driven by the data.

      Neil Ferguson’s modelling has already been shown by to be highly inaccurate and riddled with errors. Prof. Heneghan has consistently been pointing out these errors – why does he not have the ear of government?

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/05/governments-use-data-not-just-confusing-errors-positively-misleading/

      Any data analyst in a private company would long since have been sacked, but Vallance and Whitty’s doom-mongering projections are still be used as the basis for lockdown. Why does Johnson still listen to these people? And how long are we going to put up with the trashing of our economy and our most basic freedoms?

      1. Morning, JK.
        This farrago is making for some strange alliances.
        Even with those driven by dubious motives.
        It’s as discombobulating as supporting Heath.

      2. Suicide is one of the main killers of young men at the best of times. This is most definitely NOT the best of times.

    2. What this government has done to this country since the first lockdown is inhuman and we should never have put up with it. I certainly will not be listening to their lies any more

      1. 326181+ up ticks,
        Morning Anne,
        “How do they know” wot, how many illegals ?
        I believe it is done by how many are found in a square yard then
        multiplied by land mass.

        Ps
        lab/lib/con party membership numbers also give a clue.

    3. Nobody asked us if mass immigration was what we wanted.

      It was one of the greatest rapes of democracy ever performed by the PTB.

      1. 326181+ up ticks,
        Afternoon R,
        Precisely, 1997 bliar era triggered the mass uncontrolled immigration campaign.
        “We were never asked” is besides the point because “we”
        voiced no objections since he lifted the latch.
        How many opportunities has the Country had to object, and have they ?
        The b liar creature ( lab)
        The wretch cameron ( tory)
        The wretch after pledging to reduce intake, raised them.
        The lab/lib/con mass uncontrolled immigration coalition party.

        1. Give up ogga. As bad as the main parties are, millions of voters are unlikely to waste their votes again on a bunch of clowns who couldn’t run their own party successfully.

          1. 326181+ up ticks,
            js,
            My post activity is open for perusal whereas your activity’s
            seem to be taken up on studying your privates.
            I find it hard to converse with
            something in a rhetorical burka.

          5. js,
            Banned on breitbart yes correct
            I remember, for truth telling, all on my past history posts & can be checked out.

            You have no danger whatsoever
            of being banned.

        2. To be fair, ogga, if (when) we voiced objections we were howled down with screams of “racist”!

          1. 326181+ up ticks,
            Evening C,
            In the nicest possible way may I say it is a bloody good job they didn’t use the racist card in 39/45, we should really keep that in mind on Sunday.

  19. Good morning, all. Late on parade – stove to deal with; kittens to supervise – and then an infuriating (and so far insoluble) problem with the HP laserjet P2055dn printer. Works perfectly EXCEPT that the setting I had until yesterday of “scaling down to 90%” has now reverted to 100% and is greyed out – so that I can’t reset it. Dagnabbit.

    Chilly start to the day but sunny and welcoming.

  21. I feel somewhat vindicated today because of a comment I made yesterday about a McDonald’s hamburger outlet being opened in Rutland, the only county that hasn’t had one so far. The Mayor of Oakham said that, without McDonald’s, Rutland will be full of old people. I predicted that Rutland will be full of fat people!

    Today the DT reports: “UK at risk of becoming the short man of Europe because of poor diet, study reveals”

    They also have a chart of areas according to the obesity of the inhabitants. Rutland is listed as one of the least obese in the country. I wonder how long that will last!

        2. Is that the rutting season?

          (I am sorry. I used to write far better limericks in my hay day!)


          There was a young fellow from Uppingham
          Who loved love young girls’ breasts and loved cupping ’em
          So he took girls to Oakham
          And proceeded to poke ’em –
          Rutland Water’s a good place for tupping ’em!

  22. Just off to join the queue at the Post Office (deja vu all over again; Hammersmith c.1947 revisited).
    A spot of the exceedingly good cake maker to help you pass the time:

    The Beginnings

    1914-1918
    “Mary Postgate”
    (A Diversity of Creatures)

    It was not part of their blood,
    It came to them very late
    With long arrears to make good,
    When the English began to hate.

    They were not easily moved,
    They were icy-willing to wait
    Till every count should be proved,
    Ere the English began to hate.

    Their voices were even and low,
    Their eyes were level and straight.
    There was neither sign nor show,
    When the English began to hate.

    It was not preached to the crowd,
    It was not taught by the State.
    No man spoke it aloud,
    When the English began to hate.

    It was not suddenly bred,
    It will not swiftly abate,
    Through the chill years ahead,
    When Time shall count from the date
    That the English began to hate.”

    1. And now the English’s hatred of those who would destroy us is a criminal offence.

      Why did we surrender to the monstrous PTB?

    2. Good morning, Annie, good morning all!|

      Thing about the above is that there are far fewer English in this country than when Mr. K. wrote that.

      Today is the first day my brother is in his flat, with hot water, heating, and a toilet and electricity that work. Now to mend the man… slowly does it.

      I have been reading but not writing on several forums – so have roughly kept up with what’s going on. Lovely to be back amongst the sane…

        1. Hi Plum, I posted by mistake (have to type on two keyboards as one of laptop partially not working – makes for loads of typos because can’t type in bed without pressing down on unintended keys by mistake!

          Yes on reflection I thought too kind as well!

          1. “have to type on two keyboards as one of laptop partially not working – makes for loads of typos”

            Would you like a job on the Daily Telegraph letters page? ;@)

            Hi Lass, welcome back!

          2. funny you should say that about the DT Harry. I’ve just cancelled my subs (free month trial) and was asked the reason. I said the news is far too depressing and the editing is dreadful. Dominic seemed surprised. I told him actually I’m not sure anybody does any editing, the grammar and spelling errors were terrible. He said he’d pass it on!

          4. Lovely to see you back HL! Are you sure about “sane”? Is “sure and sane” similar to T Mays “strong and stable”?

      2. Good to see you here again – hope your brother will recover – and take care of yourself, too.

        1. Thanks, J!

          Last missive I had from consultant after 3 scans of varying types said that they couldn’t work out whether my problem is primarily gallbladder or spleen without more “Invasive” processes, which “may well result in more harm than good”. Basically if I can live with it, that is the best option. Blast and b*££eration – it’s bloomin’ painful! Plus right knee grating and clicking and painful – so am hobbling around with big leg stocking clutching stomach! Not a pretty sight.

          “Still ne’er mind eh? – Longfellow”

          – can any of you remember where that came from. Hint: same page as ads by “sole props. Mr. and Mrs. Ernie Scrotem”…

          1. Can sympathise with you Lass.
            Had my gall bladder removed last year and this year had an arthroscopy on my right knee to remove ‘foreign bodies’. It’s taken about 9 months for the knee to get better. I have sufficient cartilage between the femur and tibia but lacking it on the kneecap which occasionally grinds and clicks when I bend.

          2. Oh dear……… I had a nasty gallbladder episode a few years ago – and this week a minor recurrence of same, I think. Not bad enough to bother the doctor (if he’s still there) but sore, full of wind and couldn’t eat much or even stomach a glass of wine till last night. Much better today, thank goodness,

          3. I sincerely hope it is another one-off for you, J..

            I now wake up in the night with pain, or when I wake up in the morning. As I have been tested and tested and the consultant (although he kindly said to come to him directly and not through GP) said “try not to go to doctors if you can help it.” I wonder what he meant? At the moment I can live with it, as plenty of people live with far worse. It’s just an irritation on top of anything else that is happening.

            That’s why I’m finding you lovely Nottlers to be so positive to chat with again. Bless you all! And very many commiserations to those of you who are going through far worse, emotionally, physically, or both

          4. Good to see you back and hope all problems get sorted soon. I have been told by the Memory Team not to bother with the GP (who has got in a huff, apparently, about their advice), but to go straight to them if I have problems with MOH. Given the extra work being piled on me by the GP, it’s advice I shall be taking.

          5. Thank you Conners, and hello !

            I will be taking my consultant’s advice too, but will live with it as long as I can. The NHS is a disgrace – totally politicalised now.

          6. I think it was just what they used to call a ‘bilious attack’, though I wasn’t sick. I thought at first I’d overdone it the other night – we had our n-d-n round to dinner – I ate too much and a fair amount of wine went down, too. It does take a bit to put me off my food & drink.

            But this morning I went to meet a friend for a takeaway bacon sarnie & coffee and a walk to the nearest bench where we sat in the sunshine in the teeth of a howling gale and had a good laugh. I’m much better now!

            Yours sounds a lot more serious, and you must take care. Glad you have time now to come back here – it’s my daily tonic!

          4. An old joke I shared with Boll. (did write iniitally just “An old joke” but knew that would be pounced upon pdq!)

          3. Make sure you are wearing factor 50 when we meet. I wouldn’t want you to be blinded by my overwhelming sunnyness. 🙂

      1. It always impresses me the care taken in such exhumations. The Dutch clearly cared very much that the guys who died liberating them received due respect.
        And it did bring a tear or two.

        1. Brought a lump to my throat too especially the Lanc flypast. I went on detachment there whilst stationed in Germany in ’63

          1. Busy over the road t’other day, acquiring some rebar for the concrete I later laid, I heard something meaty going overhead and, through the trees I was surrounded by, caught a brief glimpse of a Spitfire.
            However, I’m certain there was another Merlin or similar passing overhead out of sight.
            Had I been up in the garden I’d have got a decent view of both.

      1. Some of their politicians forget rather easily. In common with several in the EU.

        It’s all very sad, and such a waste of decent British (and Allied) lives.

      1. Funny you are allowed to walk on a golf course but can’t carry a stick and hit a little ball with it

          5. Okay if this carries on i’ll be sick of more.
            Oh…. that’s the door bell………it must be one the annual rings

  27. Inconceivablel! …oh, wait! It’s our police and our intelligence services and our border controls…
    The Manchester Arena Inquiry has revealed that there are six suspects that the police have still not interviewed. One escaped from the country despite being a known criminal.
    I can remember that our security service shot dead three IRA blokes on the streets of Gibraltar. Now we cannot catch, or preferably kill, Elyas Elmehdi and Mohammed Soliman, because they are in Libya. Why should that stop us? What do we have tough guys for? Do we just wait until these jihadis come back and have another go?
    Why can we never stop wringing our hands over the wrong things? We poured thousands of men and a fortune in money into an illegal war in Iraq on false evidence, but we cannot deal with killers when there is evidence?

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54834419

    1. Political expediency.

      That the Libyans are likely going there for terrorist training is an issue that security services won’t consider.

    2. ‘Morning HP!

      RE. the two who escaped (it seems to be as easy to get out as it is to get into this country), how about drones? I don’t mean the lazy gits in Parliament.

      And as you imply, what’s stopping them getting back – and what’s the betting that they are both claiming benefits under one name or another, while they are away…

    3. Do we have any tough guys any more? The armed forces seem to be encouraged to cry over the loss of their I pads, report bullying rather than stand up to it, and avoid any action which might lead to a court case in the future.

  28. 316181+ up ticks,
    Something we share with the French then,
    breitbart,
    MACRON: PARTS OF FRANCE ARE ‘BREEDING GROUNDS’ FOR TERRORISTS

    1. That’s the limit of the overlap. We don’t send our terrorists to France – we don’t even return them to France.

      Morning ogs!

      2. I wonder if Boris will accept that he can do nothing to stop immigrants coming but at least can apply steep tariffs on each one arriving from the EU after December 31st?

        1. Boris can do everything to stop the immigrants coming – like not allowing the French to escort them into UK waters with impunity.

          And try to get the French to pay tariffs – they didn’t even pay the fine for prohibiting British beef after it had been declared safe, some years ago! The frogs politically are crooks and ungrateful cheats. Don’t let’s get into the mire of thinking that they would play fair with anything they didn’t want to do – even if they promised.

      2. 326181+ up ticks.
        Afternoon C,
        We the English could set an good example by cleaning up / out
        parliament, totally.

      1. 326181+ up ticks,
        Afternoon RE,
        No, he means overall as with England.
        Calais is the departure point as with Dover being the entry point.

      1. 326181+ up ticks.
        R,
        What is b liar first & foremost ? a
        business man.
        Two things that would be beneficial to the business class is unions
        undermined & queues at the factory gate.
        Mass uncontrolled immigration fits the bill nicely.

        1. Post-war unemployment reached a record high of 11.9% in 1984. Ironic.
          For much of the north, it was “Road To Wigan Pier” revisited. Almost.

  30. I just saw a meme showing Bill Gates next to Bill Cosby: Both these men are called Bill and both wear jumpers. Both these men want to stick something into you without your agreement.

  31. Many of the letters in the DT today are gibberish. They look as though they have been edited, but the text to be removed has been left in.

    1. Curiously, the letters in the tablet-edition have been sorted properly and don’t carry the ‘unedited edits’ which appear on the website. It’s quite interesting to see exactly what edits have been made and to try and deduce why!

          1. Morning, young Grizzly. Your Auntie Elsie would like to know what you would like for Christmas so that she can telephone Santa and let him know in time. (I happen to know Santa’s private phone number, which is never told to children.)

            :-))

  32. Russian MPs consider lifetime immunity for former presidents. 5 november 2020.

    The draft bill would give a former president immunity from criminal prosecution for any offences committed during his lifetime. A supermajority of lawmakers would be required to revoke the protections. Currently, ex-presidents are protected for actions taken only while they were in office.

    It is the second bill this week that provides special provisions for former presidents, prompting talk of whether Putin, 68, might be preparing for retirement.

    On Saturday he sponsored legislation that would entitle a former president to a lifetime seat as a senator in Russia’s Federation Council, a position that also comes with immunity from prosecution.

    Morning everyone. This legislation is necessary in a Russia where the paying off of debts is a national characteristic. It’s not required in the UK because there is an unspoken agreement that previous administrations are immune to prosecution on a quid pro quo understanding. This is why Blair and his cronies and Cameron have never been brought to trial for the War Crimes of which they are undoubtedly guilty.

    I doubt that Vlad will retire unless the rumours about his health are true and prevent him carrying out his duties. He will most probably not stand at the next Presidential Election, though who his replacement will be is still a mystery. The only people who will gloat at his going are the globalists who have tried every trick to undermine him and largely failed.

    His abilities are unparalleled in the modern world. He has stabilised Russia and raised it out of the Yeltsin gutter to once more make it a world power. Contrary to the MSM propaganda the Russian Federation is almost certainly fourth or fifth in the most powerful economy stakes while its armed forces are formidable and its self-sufficiency has never been higher. When one compares it to a disintegrating and demoralised West declining into totalitarianism its recovery is even more remarkable.

    He will be sorely missed and not just in Russia. His political skills have prevented several dangerous flashpoints evolving that could so easily have led to serious confrontations. History will prove him to be one of Russia’s greatest leaders and one of the world’s Great Statesman. If there is a downside to his rule it is that there was never any one of the same stature in the West to whom he could relate and create new opportunities and a vision for the future.

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/05/russian-mps-consider-lifetime-immunity-for-former-presidents-putin

  33. Does anyone know what percentage of the total US votes were postal votes and what proportion of the total postal votes went to Biden?

    2. Some votes were seen where the people who voted hadn’t been born when they first cast their vote. Adding more than a huge element of suspicion to the whole process. Our media will hopefully get their deserved comeuppance.

      1. The problem we have is that the twitter feeds and videos of what could well be skulduggery are as manipulatable as the system appears to be. Most tales appear to be anecdotal, but it certainly suggests that a statistical sampling should take place, right the way back to the relevant voter.

        1. Project Veritas released another bombshell video today exposing a top-down USPS Voter Fraud scheme in Pennsylvania.

          This new USPS Insider from Erie, Pa., details the same situation as our Michigan USPS Insider did yesterday, claiming their supervisor ordered them to change the postmarks on mail-in ballots from yesterday and today to Nov. 3.

          Here are some of the highlights from today’s video:

          Erie, Pa. USPS Insider: “All these ballots that were coming in–today, tomorrow, yesterday—are all supposed to be postmarked the third.”
          Erie, Pa. USPS Insider: “We have to separate out the ballots and give them directly to the supervisors. They’re postmarking and they’re at the office and taking them directly to the ballot box.”
          Erie, Pa. USPS Insider: “I don’t think–I wasn’t supposed to hear that…I don’t even think he realized I was still there; you know…Backdating.”
          Erie, Pa. USPS Insider: The order is still on. “Today, Thursday, Nov. 5, we did pick up some ballots.”
          You can watch the full video here:

          This is systemic Voter Fraud, plain and simple.

          It is unacceptable that different contested states’ USPS supervisors are committing Voter Fraud at this scale.

          Project Veritas is still on the ground and will continue to expose this sort of egregious wrongdoing.

          We must protect the Republic.

          Be Brave,

          1. I certainly hope that it goes to the courts and if it is proved that massive fraud has taken place (as I suspect that it has) then Trump gets elected and gets after these crooks with a vengeance.

          2. I have never liked Trump, but in MHO and in fairness it’s nothing to do with any other country who they elect as president. As long as it’s a fraudulent occurrence which is certainly what this appears to be. Again IMHO the current London mayor should never have been where he is today. It was all rather dubious to say the least, certain Admin errors and the postal voting reminded me of how some elections in parts of south asia take place.

          3. I think you may have missed out a word or two.

            In the case of America it actually is important who they elect, because it does affect almost every other country, directly or indirectly in ways that no other country, with the possible exception of China can.

            And China is a totalitarian State..

          4. Probably the P word once attached to India.
            And of course the undelivered ballot papers to the London Jewish communities.

          6. It rather looks, Eddy, as if America, and we, are going the way of the Banana Republics that we still send foreign ‘Aid’ to.

      2. My guess is that the court cases will prove some fraud, but it will be said to be not big enough to have influenced the result.

        You can’t hide fraud on this scale, so they will admit to some, just to save the Biden Presidency. But they have no intention of giving up the advantage dishonestly gained.
        It will be a repeat of the Thanet missing ballot boxes – nothing to see here, move along, case closed.

    3. Trump was encouraging his supporters not to postal vote, but to vote in person. This may have been a tactic to make the Biden postal vote appear disproportionately high. I don’t have figures but someone will come up with them!

      1. But even allowing for that aspect, for sake of argument if in person votes went 70:30 Trump but postal votes went 90:10 Biden I would be very suspicious and tend to conclude that vote harvesting had been taking place.

        We know from the UK that it certainly happens.

        1. The Radical University of Tower Hamlets (known acronymously as TRUTH) offers undergraduate degrees in Election Fixing (known as Effing) and post-graduate Doctorates in Selective Correction Affecting Mandates (known as SCAMS). Its graduates have been given lucrative jobs with the Democratic Party in the US.

          1. “Lutfur Rahman… banned as mayor of Tower Hamlets by the High Court in 2015 over corrupt administration.”

            An early example of more votes than voters.

    4. I am reliably informed by a Democrat supporter that 140% of the votes were postal and 0% went to Trump.

    5. There were a lot more postal votes this year than in earlier years and I would imagine that a lot were for Biden.

      The country is split in many ways, democrats tend to believe in pandemics and would go for the postal vote where possible. Those US elections are not as well organized as most other countries, hours long waits at polling stations are not uncommon and if you are scared of catching covid, you would avoid in person voting at all costs.

      Postal votes are part of their system, the vast majority are perfectly valid votes that have been cast in line with the established rules. I guess that it takes a special kind of loser to try and invalidate several million votes just because there might be some invalid votes in the pile.

      1. I guess it takes some special kind of gullible cheat to think that in a very narrowly contested election that even a small number of fraudulent votes should be acceptible.

        There are far, far too many instances of skulduggery being reported for them all to be lies.
        We know from experience in the UK that the sytem is easily defrauded.

        It can’t be difficult to prove, one way or the other.

        1. It varies by state but most states do not just send out postal votes like happens in the UK, in many cases you have to show ID before they will consider sending you a ballot. Other states have strict rules on who can get a postal ballot.

          Skullduggery you say? There is so much that is making a laughing stock of the election process. How about:

          US Postal service attempts to delay postal votes, it shouldn’t have taken a court ruling to tell the post office to frank all postal ballots on time.

          The truckload of illegal postal votes crossing the border? That is about as rising as the supposed article about Trudeau being ready to invade the US to eject Trump from the white house.

          The kiddies truck being used to pull box loads of extra votes into a counting centre in Nevada was quickly debunked by a TV station saying hang on a minute, that’s one of our camera guys with his equipment.

          There’s a lot of anti Biden conspiracy being invented nowadays, it does more harm than good because it prevents real corruption being exposed.

          1. You’ve obviously never come across vote harvesting by community organisers. Yes it can happen both ways, but it is a particular trade mark of the left.

            Why are you so anti having some simple checks carried out?

          2. Err no, I did not say or infer that I was opposed to checks.

            In fact my last point was that the idiotic and patently untrue claims are harming the investigation of legitimate claims of vote fixing.

          3. You’ve been discounting all and sundry as conspiracy or impossible as far as the election is concerned and when you referred to Biden corruption
            “There’s a lot of anti Biden conspiracy being invented nowadays, it does
            more harm than good because it prevents real corruption being exposed.”
            I assumed, evidently wrongly, that you were writing of all the other Biden family crookedness rather than the voting problems.

        2. I would return to vote in person, if you cannot than hard luck. Only rate payers should vote in local elections.

          1. I think there must be instances where a postal vote should be allowed, eg people who are forcd to work away from home at the time of an election, eg services personnel and people required by their employers to be away or people who are physically incapacitated, but I would certainly make the criteria much, much stricter.

          2. Sure do that but mandate a reasonable number of polling stations. Standing outside for hours in a Dakota snow storm while waiting to vote is not acceptable. There are many workers who have trouble getting to polling stations after work, they need to be accommodated if only by having easier access to a poll.

            Texas has rules much like Sos has just suggested, it seems to work reasonably well. Friends in Dallas voted several weeks before the election at one of the early voting stations.

            The whole system needs an overhaul, the trouble with that idea is that there is no authority in control of the process, each state sets their own rules to favour their own partisan biases.

          3. Why not change the date of the election from November to spring or summer? Likewise the inauguration, which is in January in Washington DC. It is held outside, in what is likely to be freezing cold weather. Seems pretty dumb to me. But the whole US Presidential Election system seems dumb, too.

        3. Best discount the two or three million legitimately cast postal votes then, that will fix the hundreds / thousands of bad votes.

          Postal votes are part of their system, Trump has had four years to negotiate changes to the voting rules. Rejecting millions of validly cast votes by changing the rules after the election is more of an affront to their democracy than an unknown number of bad votes getting through.

          Then what about the gun toting yahoos trying to invade the Nevada counting station to stop votes being counted, how does that count as democratic?

          1. That is a totally spurious rebuttal.

            I’m not for a minute suggesting that there are not millions of valid postal votes. What I am suggesting is that there could well be sufficient invalid votes to swing many of the States.

            I am intrigued that you feel that allowing Biden (or for that matter Trump) in on the back of invalid votes is acceptable.

            As I have observed several times, it would not be difficult to organise a statistical sampling of postal votes to establish what proportion, if any, is likely to be fraudulent.

            As to Trump having 4 years to change it, are you trying to claim that he knew there would be a Covid or similar epidemic that would result in many millions opting for mail-in?

            The Nevada episode was disgraceful, but certianly no more disgraceful than Democrat supporters preventing Republican observers into counting stations.

          2. Trump was whining about postal votes in 2016. Maybe the scale of postal votes was a surprise to everyone but the issue was known. It’s a mute point really, the US system takes elections out of the presidents hands and leaves it to individual states.

            I thought that the count was taking so long because they were doing a lot of cross checking. I agree analysis of postal votes could have a big impact on future elections but unless a sample shows major levels of corruption, what can be done now?

            Even if significant flaws are found, US laws have set dates for declaring results so they may well end up having an insurmountable task validating every single postal vote in the month before they are legally obliged to declare the result.
            They are stuck with a fallible system.

          3. Apologies for the Cathy Newman. So what you are saying is that Trump whined, but there was nothing he could do about it because it’s set at the State level.

            If that is the case, it seems to me that getting the Supreme Court involved would be a good, not a bad, thing

          4. The founding fathers had a thing about making things hard. The Supreme Court only works at the federal level, there is not much that they can do about state law unless those laws do not adhere to the constitution.

            I agree though, the Supreme Court may be needed to sort this mess out, trouble is of course that the dems will reject any decision that goes against them and claim that Trump fixed the court.

            When do the recounts start? Lawyers paid exorbitant hourly fees examining every ballot for the slightest scratching or bend that could justify rejection.

            Oh for your big statistical sample that could reliably tell us to expect maybe less than 0.1% fraud, therefore results should stand or not.

          5. The Democrats are dishonest. Biden is a crook and should not be standing for president.

          6. come on, Don’t hold back tell me what you really think.

            It is amazing that out of 350+ million citizens, Trump and Biden were the best candidates that they could come up with.

    1. This is what has been driving me nuts for the past few days, Rik. Every report I hear states “(President) Trump has started a legal challenge in various states claiming there is widespread postal voting fraud”. This is a true and unambiguous statement of fact. But always they add the opinion “without any evidence for this claim”. So the MSM seem to be judge, jury and executioner without even hearing the President’s legal evidence. The only hopeful story I have read (printed on this site late last night) is that he had anticipated this fraud and had secretly ensured that all legal ballot papers were overprinted with a security symbol which can only be seen under U-V light or some such. If this is true, it will be easy to distinguish true voting papers from frauds. It will also be possible which candidate the fraudsters voted for.

      1. Radio news this morning reported that CBS & others cut into his press conference this morning, saying he was telling lies.

        1. Jeepers, Herr Oberst, if this is true we really are headed for the end of civilisation as we knew it.

  35. Morning again

    SIR – Now is a good time for our Government to learn some lessons from the US elections.

    When I was As a young constable in Liverpool in the Sixties and Seventies, there was always a police officer present at polling stations and every ballot box had a police escort from there to the counting centre. Neither of these practices happen now.

    Since getting involved in politics, I have become convinced there is systematic and organised fraud surrounding postal voting.

    While there is definitely a case for some categories of voters – such as the military, the disabled and those working away – to be allowed a postal vote, now that they are “on demand”, any voter can have theirs stolen or fabricated.

    The lack of security around ballot boxes and postal voting has the potential to undermine our electoral system.

    Mike Speakman

    Retired Deputy Chief Constable

    Worlaby, Lincolnshire

    1. The problem in the US is that 40% voted by mail. The election, whoever wins, is probably the most fraudulent in the history of any western democratic country.

      It lends a new meaning to jiggery-pokery! .

      Edit – News update. “A Democrat Election Observer Gets Kicked Out of Philly Convention Center After Reporting Fraud Inside the Center!

      1. But will Britain learn from the fact that postal voting is the source of a great deal of fraud?

        It should be exceptionally difficult to get a postal vote and each postal vote should be witnessed by an impartial witness.

    1. Always wonder what they would think of the events that are unfolding now that they gave their lives for to save us from.

        1. Especially when the threat we face is being encouraged, endorsed and paid for under threat of force by those they fought for.

          Again, everything is back to front.

        1. 326181+ up ticks,
          Morning AS,
          As in a recent post, continuing on the path being laid out for us we will find similarities regarding our future on checking out
          “Yesterday” on channel 25 at 6 pm, am waiting to observe the riding crop of the overseeing force under the chin & raising the head
          of the innocent, for conformation.

  37. SIR – As a member of the Royal College of General Practitioners, I emailed the college’s chairman, Professor Martin Marshall (“‘Protect the NHS’ message had bad consequences, says GP chief”, October 30), on at least two occasions in April and May this year to express my concern that remote consulting of the type GPs were doing (often using the National Early Warning Score system) was unable to pick up silent hypoxia – a distinct feature of Covid-19, not seen with other viruses, where there is a lack of oxygen in the blood even though the patient is not gasping for breath. I added that that face-to-face consultations were vital for patients with respiratory symptoms who did not have access to pulse oximetry and couldn’t self monitor.

    My emails were referred to “the leadership team” and I heard no more.

    Silent hypoxia remains a very real danger, of which the majority of the public areis unaware. GPs were required to compile lists of vulnerable patients at the beginning of the pandemic. It would be a simple matter to provide these patients with pulse oximeters, which are very simple to use and cost about £25.

    In this way, silent hypoxia could be spotted early and the patient given life-saving oxygen (as, indeed, the Prime Minister was).

    Dr Gregory Tanner

    Middlezoy, Somerset

  38. Benin Bronzes must be returned to Africa, says curator of Oxford’s Pitt Rivers Museum
    Desperate Dan Hicks has said that the ongoing dialogue regarding the restitution of objects must “give way to action”

    Each of the 10,000 objects should be accompanied by a posse of 1000 Africans to ensure that they arrive safely and aren’t stolen in transit. Once installed in the country of origin the posse could form a permanent guard to prevent the evil colonialists from attempting to steal them again. Who’s in favour?

    1. Yesterday there was a segment on the Border TV news for Cumbria in respect of wild life park. It had been flooded and looking dreary. There was a brief picture of a leopard. I don’t like zoos and I abhor these amateur animal prisons. We need to look after animals in the wild, by keeping humans out of certain areas.

      1. I don’t like seeing fish, or even insects, in captivity. I suppose I keep a dog in captivity, but he’s family.

        1. I don’t know if it is still done, but as a young teenager on holiday in Switzerland I hated seeing fish swimming around a small tank from which the diner could choose a specimen for his lunch. It seemed such an uneven contest – absolutely no escape. I have a feeling that it still happens in some places in France today.

        2. I’ve often wondered if Mongo actually minds – or even considers – that he is ‘owned’. I’ve always seen him as an equal – he’s commanded and ordered about, but mostly for his own safety.

          I hope that as Jerry was very much a rescue puppy that we did something positive for him. I would ask why, seriously, why someone would take on a puppy which they thought wouldn’t change. It was obvious within a few months that he’d grow into a really big dog with teeth, hair and huge expense.

          It’s unfair on the animal.

          1. I must not start fishy puns …
            I must not start fishy puns ….
            I must not …..
            Oh, Cod, the strain’s unbearable.

          1. Nahh, the cats run this house. Nothing showed that more than seeing Mongo sat in his bed with the cat, only to try to move and get the cat bash him on the head if he moved away.

        5. You’re not a member of PETA, are you? They see pets as captives. Me, I see my dog as a hunting companion; we share patrolling our territory 🙂

      2. “… by keeping humans out of certain areas. …”

        Could we start with ‘the planet’? Move say, 7 bn people on to giant orbital plates and then… chop the anchors off to let them float away?

    5. Indeed. That is certainly an odd and disturbing photo. It looks like something out of the nineteenth century.

  40. I found a new podcast to listen to last night. It’s called ‘Joan and Jericha’. V funny.
    I also listen to ‘Fortuntely’ which can be quite funny if you ignore their leftiness. Does anyone else listen to either of these?

    1. Sorry, Stormy, no. I find myself listening to Angel Radio instead. It’s perfect for an old-fashioned nostalgia freak like me.

  41. The upswell of liberal apologism for violent Islamism is sickening D Telegruff

    Under the headline “Is France Fuelling Muslim Terrorism By Trying To Prevent It?”, the New York Times, that great mouthpiece of wokeness, chose to place the blame for the attack on beheading of Paty on the teacher himself, not on his attacker,

    So, the New York times believes that telling the truth is lethal and that Paty really committed suicide by telling his pupils why the staff of Charlie Hebdo were slaughtered.. It may explain why their lefty rag rarely, if ever, tells the truth.

    1. There are certain people ordinary life loving generous human beings can’t be kind to, because they see it as a sign of weakness and an opening to force more misery upon them.

    2. “Mark John Thompson is a British media executive who is the former president and chief executive officer of The New York Times Company. From 2004 to 2012, he served as Director-General of the BBC, and before that was the Chief Executive of Channel 4.”

      No surprises there.

  42. ‘Morning again.

    Today’s letters are a load of carp and riddled with errors, so here is an obituary to provide us with the antidote to the current crop of our inept, self-serving politicians. (Memo to them: this is what “ability” and “duty” look like.)

    Vice-Admiral Peter Dunt, who served under Sandy Woodward during the Falklands War – obituary

    He provided crucial logistical service in the South Atlantic before taking responsibility for MoD properties around the world

    Vice-Admiral Peter Dunt, who has died aged 73, was secretary to Admiral “Sandy” Woodward during the Falklands War.

    In 1982, Dunt was a commander and admiral’s secretary to then Rear-Admiral Sandy Woodward, embarked in the guided missile destroyer Antrim, from where the admiral was conducting the fleet’s annual spring exercises off Gibraltar.

    All changed overnight when Argentina invaded the Falkland Islands. Dunt flew home to London for briefings at fleet headquarters in Northwood, then on to Ascension Island, where he re-joined Woodward.

    When Woodward and his staff transferred to the carrier Hermes, Dunt was additionally designated Task Group Logistics Officer. Despite limited communications with Britain some 8,000 miles away, he successfully prioritised the supply of everything from food to missiles.

    He was also responsible for the embarked members of the Press, not all of whom were easy to handle as they clamoured to release copy, all of which had to be monitored.

    After the conflict, back in Portsmouth, Dunt tackled a mountain of reports and letters to be written as well as an overflowing diary, all of which he managed with equanimity. Woodward concluded his personal report on Dunt by describing him as “an invaluable alter ego, organiser and administrative right-hand man, ashore and afloat, under the most testing conditions. Dunt has passed a major trial with flying colours.”

    Peter Arthur Dunt was born in Liverpool on June 23 1947, but when he was four his parents moved to Kenya where his father was ICI’s representative in Mombasa. He was educated at Kenton College and the Duke of York School, Nairobi, and at Merchant Taylors’, Crosby. Dunt excelled at sports, often opening the batting with his brother for Kenya Combined Schools, and played rugby for the first XV.

    He entered the Navy in 1965 and spent his midshipman’s year in the frigate Arethusa, before specialising as a supply officer.

    After the Falklands War, Dunt, now secretary to the newly promoted Rear-Admiral Jeremy Black, joined the carrier Invincible for a deployment to the Far East and Australasia. His older brother John was the weapons engineer commander in Invincible, which caused some confusion among the ship’s company.

    Later, his career was centred in the Ministry of Defence, and when promoted to captain in 1987, he was one of the youngest supply officers to achieve this substantive rank in peacetime. In 1992-94 he commanded the Navy’s new entry training establishment, HMS Raleigh, at Torpoint in Cornwall.

    Promoted to rear-admiral in 1997, as chief of staff to the Second Sea Lord he sometimes attended Navy board meetings where his brother was a full member, one of the few times that two brothers have ever attended the board.

    In 2000 he became Chief Naval Supply and Secretariat Officer, and at that time he changed the department’s name to the Logistics Branch. In 2002, following an open competition, he was appointed Chief Executive, Defence Estates, and was promoted to vice-admiral, becoming responsible for the defence estate around the world, an £18 billion portfolio; in the next five years one of his largest deals was to sell Chelsea Barracks for £900 million.

    After leaving the Navy Dunt embraced a wide range of jobs, including chairman of the Royal Surrey County Hospital, 2010-15, when he improved the trust’s finances, and by regularly “walking the decks” improved the staff’s moral.
    He was appointed CB in 2002, and Deputy Lieutenant of Surrey in 2011.

    Cricket was his main sport: he and his brother were capped for the Navy at Lord’s in 1971, and in 1997 he captained his local Blackheath XI to the semi-finals of the national village knock-out competition. Later he turned to gardening, golf and grandchildren.

    In 1974 Peter Dunt married Lesley Gilchrist, whom he met when she was a third officer, WRNS, and who survives him with their two daughters.

    Vice-Admiral Peter Dunt, born June 23 1947, died October 13 2020

  43. If anyone has any lingering belief in government data, you can give up now. And note the continued involvement of the thoroughly discredited Bonking Boffin, which explains a lot.

    From the DT:

    Official projections which pushed the country into a second lockdown have been quietly revised to no longer suggest deaths could soon overtake those at the peak of the first wave, The Telegraph has learned.

    Graphs presented at a televised Downing Street press conference on Saturday suggested that the UK would see up to 1,500 Covid deaths a day by early December, far beyond the numbers seen in the first wave.

    But documents released by Government show that the figures were far too high and have been “amended after an error was found”. The forecast has been revised, reducing the upper end of the scale to around 1,000 deaths a day by December 8 – on a par with the peak of the pandemic in April.

    Presenting the graphs on Saturday, Sir Patrick Vallance, Boris Johnson’s chief scientific adviser, said the statistics, which covered a six-week period, presented “a very grim picture” with “greater certainty” than long-term modelling could provide.

    But the Government Office for Science has now corrected two of the slides, reducing both the upper end of the range for deaths and that for hospital admissions by one third. While the presentation suggested daily hospital admissions could reach up to 9,000 in early December, the upper end of the range has now been cut to 6,000 in the updated slides.

    It comes days after it emerged that separate modelling showing a worst-case scenario of 4,000 deaths a day by the end of December was based on out of date data which has also since been updated.

    The revelation prompted former Prime Minister Theresa May to question the Government’s use of statistics and ask whether “figures are chosen to support the policy rather than the policy being based on the figures”.

    On Thursday night, leading scientist Professor Carl Heneghan, of Oxford University, said the graphs presented at the weekend had been found to be “riddled with errors”, raising concern that a desire for lockdown had seen forecasts “systematically” exaggerated.

    Greg Clark, the chairman of the Commons science and technology committee, said the belated admission of errors was “of great concern”, adding that the changes to the upper range in the forecast on hospital admissions was particularly concerning as this was “the key projection” in the case for lockdown.

    Steve Baker, a backbench Tory MP given advance sight of the projections ahead of the Downing Street briefing, said: “Government must accept that public confidence rests on not over-egging the pudding.”

    On Thursday, the UK statistics watchdog criticised the Government for a lack of transparency about the data driving its lockdown policies, warning that the failings could create confusion and undermine public confidence.

    In other developments, Rishi Sunak, the Chancellor, extended the furlough scheme, under which the Treasury covers 80 per cent of the wages of employees unable to work, until March.

    Dominic Raab, the Foreign Secretary, announced that he was self-isolating after coming into contact with someone who has coronavirus.

    Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, said people were allowed to leave their homes to travel abroad for assisted dying during the lockdown.

    Last Saturday, when Boris Johnson announced the lockdown, Sir Patrick presented a series of slides on the outlook for the pandemic including the now-disputed 4,000 deaths graph.

    On Tuesday, Sir Patrick and Professor Chris Whitty, the chief medical officer, were questioned by the Commons science and technology committee about the use of the modelling scenarios which MPs said had frightened the public.

    Sir Patrick said he “regretted” it if he had not made it clear that these scenarios were models rather than projections and were “not as reliable” as the six-week forecasts he had also presented. He told MPs: “The right graphs to focus on are the six-week medium-term forward projections,” describing the slides on hospital admissions and deaths as the ones “that are important”.

    Amid bad-tempered discussions about the long-term scenarios, Prof Whitty said he had “never used anything beyond six weeks in anything I have ever said to any minister on this issue”.

    But an addendum to the published slides has revealed that these forecasts contained significant mistakes. A note added to the presentation said: “Plots on slides 4 and 5 have been amended after an error was found in the interquartile ranges for SPI-M [Sage’s Scientific Pandemic Influenza Group on Modelling] medium term projections.

    “This does not affect the insights that can be taken from this analysis.”

    Although the central forecasts remain unchanged, forecasting 750 deaths a day and 4,290 hospital admissions by December 8, the upper end of the range has been revised down. Instead of 1,500 deaths, it suggests an upper figure of 1,010, while the top range for daily hospital admissions falls from around 9,000 to 6,190.

    The changes significantly alter the appearance of the graphs, meaning the shading no longer suggests that deaths in the weeks up to December 8 could dwarf those of the first wave.

    Prof Heneghan, the director of the Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University, raised concerns that incorrect data was “systematically” being used to drive the country into lockdown, saying: “It really worries me that, on matters that are this important, we are finding that the data is absolutely riddled with errors.

    “I don’t know if the data is being rushed through or if what we are seeing is bias being introduced, but what we are seeing looks systematic. All the mistakes are consistently in one direction, so you have to ask whether it is being done on purpose to suit the policies, like lockdown, they want to impose.”

    He urged ministers to be more transparent, saying revisions to data should not be “snuck out” and adding: “We’re in an era where public compliance is essential to public health, and in due course we will need people to take the vaccine. That requires people to trust the Government.”

    The SPI-M projections, dated October 28, were a central part of the weekend presentation, with Sir Patrick and and Prof Whitty since emphasising that they were more reliable than long-term scenarios.

    SPI-M includes Professor Jonathan Van Tam, the deputy chief medical officer, Professor Neil Ferguson, of Imperial College London and Professor John Edmunds, of the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, all of whom have advocated national action.

    At a Downing Street briefing on Thursday, Sir Simon Stevens, the head of the NHS, said services were now dealing with the equivalent of 22 hospitals of Covid patients.

    Amid growing rows over the figures presented in the case for lockdown, he contrasted the NHS data with other charts, saying: “Those are facts. Those are not projections, forecasts, speculation. Those are the patients in the hospital today.

    “And as we think about the next few weeks, in a sense we already know what is likely to happen, because today’s infection is the intensive care order book for a fortnight’s time.”

    Earlier, Professor Yvonne Doyle, the director of health protection at Public Health England (PHE), defended the models used to justify the second national lockdown, saying they were “presented to aid planning”.

    The Office for Statistics Regulation criticised the Government for a lack of transparency over publication of data about the pandemic amid concern that it failed to publish the data sources, models or assumptions on the case for lockdown for several days after the televised presentation, only doing so the night before MPs voted on the restrictions.

    In a damning statement, it said: “The use of data has not consistently been supported by transparent information being provided in a timely manner. As a result, there is potential to confuse the public and undermine confidence in the statistics.”

    A Government spokesman said: “The main consensus projection remains unaltered. The data still clearly shows, and the consensus remains, that without intervention we are likely to breach the first wave of hospital admissions and deaths in a matter of weeks.”

    1. Ah, now I see. No matter what actual figures are reported the projections of infections* and death always remain at the same high level.

      *Cases= infections= input to model= excuse for lockdown. (Well, that seems pretty tight and reliable…)

    2. “amended after an error was found”” – so nobody had the wit to look at the projection, think “Shit! That looks a bit alarming! Maybe we’d better check the numbers again!”, did they? Unbeleivable! Thank all the gods in the Universe that these people don’t design nuclear power plant, you’d all be glass by now! Unutterable incompetence rules in the UK, from top to bottom.
      I actually have experience of receiving unchecked results of a study – the tosser who did the calculations made a fundamentaal error, presented what was effectively armageddon for the project, and sat back all smug and pleased with himself whilst the room erupted with dismay. A quick check of his calculations (by me) revealed he’d fucked up, but didn’t have the wit to realise the effect his report would have – and so just check one more time.
      Following from that numpty Ferguson, I’m damned glad I don’t live over there in the UK. An island filled with idiots.

      1. Sadly, only too believable – and pretty much inevitable given today’s level of incompetence.

    3. Maybe if the ‘experts’ had used their toes as well as their fingers, we would have a different result.

    4. Just think – a year ago we were about to vote for these liars, cheats and charlatans to ‘get Brexit done’.

      1. I certainly hope so – on more bases than one. For example, Parliament (Govt., and Starmer when it suits his ulterior purposes) are swallowing the vaccine route hook, line and sinker. Although I read that Bill Gates would not allow his own children to be vaccinated. I wonder why?

        How long before we are not allowed our repeat prescription medicine unless we have a vaccination? I would say 3 years max. unless there is a serious re-evaluation on what the PTB are doing to us.

  44. O/T, but did anyone else watch the programme yesterday evening about Frank Gardner, the Beeb’s security correspondent? Well worth watching.

  45. On the question of by-passing the Telegaff paywall – try this:

    (1) Wait till the page loads completely. (2) Left click on the reload symbol at top left (circle with arrowhead). (3) Click immediately on X when it appears. Job done.

    If the page freezes when you change page just repeat (2) and (3).

  46. Here’s a thought for you.

    Whoever wins the US presidency will we stymied by the republican senate. Trump tried several times to get a covid stimulus package going but never got past the senate leader saying no way.

    What chance is there of Biden having any success with a very right wing senate. I doubt that they will wish him well, they are more likely to be hell bent on preventing him recording any successes.

    Forget expanding the Supreme Court, forget extending Medicare, forget big stimulus packages.

    1. Headline: “Virginia Democrat Surges Ahead In House Race After Thousands Of Ballots Are ‘Found’ On A Flash Drive”

      Virginia Democrat Spanberger surges ahead after ‘overlooked’ ballots found on flash drive: Report

      Virginia Democratic Rep. Abigail Spanberger has now surged ahead in her tight race with a Democratic challenger after officials reportedly discovered thousands of “overlooked” ballots on a flash drive.

      Spanberger, is a former CIA official who was part of the 2018 Blue Wave that gave Democrats control of the House. Her victory ended the GOP’s stronghold on the state’s 7th congressional district seat. Her challenger this year is Republican Nick Freitas.

      The election-watch group Virginia Public Access Project tweeted late Wednesday afternoon that Spanberger was down by about 1,350 votes following a canvassing effort by county officials.

      Less than an hour later, however, VPAP reported she had jumped considerably ahead of Freitas, in part the result of an infusion of over 14,600 previously “overlooked” ballots found on an Henric County county flash drive.

      The memory stick had been “mislabeled as ‘provisional ballots’,” the group said.

      It’s obviously just coincidence that the ballots that suddenly appear (or disappear) always seem to benefit the Dems!

  48. We are up against the most cunning virus known to man.
    1. It can tell the time.
    2. It knows if you’re drinking alcohol.
    3. It knows what age you are.
    4. You need a test to see if you have got it.
    5. You may already have had it.
    6. You’ll maybe get it again.
    7. Alcohol kills it but drinking it will give you it.
    8. It can count.
    9. It supports Southampton F.C.
    (Doesn’t like soap & water)

      1. Aha, the penny has just dropped. They killed all those people with Covid so they could vote for Joe!

    1. I fear that you are clutching at straws.

      If Trump or his supporters really had organised such an operation Trump would be incapable of keeping quiet about it.

      He would be shouting it from the rooftops.

      1. On DT being elected, the Pentagon changed the nuclear launch code.
        They were worried The Donald might tweet the old one. Allegedly.

          1. One can imagine some confusion in the Kremlin.
            “Excuse me, President Putin. There is a young American woman here who says that a Mr Biden rang her number and told her to do for you.”

        2. Thank God Hilary didn’t beat him back in 2016, what with her use of non-secure e-mails.

          1. Never mind about her use of non-secure emails, it’s the rest of Hillary that I’m glad the world was spared from in 2016. She still has her poisonous tentacles out now though, with O’Banana’s help (well, who got him into his position in the first place – honour among thieves?)

          2. As i pointed out the other day HL even if JoJo does get in, he wont last long with killary in the background.

          3. Never mind about her use of non-secure emails, it’s the rest of Hillary that I’m glad the world was spared from in 2016. She still has her poisonous tentacles out now though, with O’Banana’s help (well, who got him into his position in the first place – honour among thieves?)

      2. You’re probably (85%) right … but if he had mounted such an operation, you surely keep quiet till the end.

        1. You and I would, but Trump is a law unto himself.

          I greatly fear that this is going to turn very nasty. It is one reason why I would like to see Trump’s claims investigated very thoroughly, because if they are true people should be going to prison for a very long time and if they are false he should disappear back into his own world, not to be heard from again.

      1. Comically the Left don’t think it is hypocritical. In their twisted mindset they’re valiant champions of justice and those they oppose evil monsters.

        This is how they vindicate themselves from their heinous actions.

  52. This throws a whole new light on ‘hygge’. What DO the Danes get up to during the winter months?

    “Government takes Denmark off safe travel list in ‘urgent’ late-night update after new strain of Covid that can spread from MINKS to humans is found there”

    1. Good morning Anne , in all seriousness, we have several dairty farms that are really cattle factories , huge amounts of cattle , the noise they make as their babies are taken away and put into calf crates, and the stench from the slurry pools as you drive through a couple of the vilages is eye wateringly horrid.

      I think factory farming is dreadful, and I must say I was shocked by the size of that Danish mink farm, I didn’t think fur farms existed in this day and age.

      We will reap what we sow, oh yes , that reminds me about pig farms as well. Modern farming is not very nice.

      1. The Danes were buying up arable farms in the UK a few years ago. I restored a farmhouse for a Danish couple near Foxearth. I found they were demanding, unappreciative and frankly not nice people.

        They bought the 1500 acres for about £10 million and sold up five years later for about £16 million. They were multimillionaire farmers with farms in Sweden and Western Australia. The lady has since died and the man now lives in a former royal palace in Denmark.

    2. They have an enormous number of mink farms – and 17 million minks are due to be culled – ie killed even more before their normal killing time for the fur trade. You can bet the skins will be disinfected and still used. These fur farms should be shut down for good. Evil trade.

          1. Indeed – some hotels in fairly temperate climates have full-on air-conditioning (in their case, cooling to the point of near-freezing) so that the bints can show off their furs…

      1. I don’t think I’ll pass that on to Danish D-in-L; she can be a bit Teutonic. (And she’s nearly a foot taller than me.)

      3. I prefer my old young Dutch! I would need the courage of my uncle to say otherwise and the consequence would be no treat I can assure you.

      5. Did you drive her Mini ?
        I did a job in Stanmore yonks back and the ‘au what a pair’ was a Danish giant. Did you know her ?

      1. A moose ! How very dare you. That’s Rocinante.

        Rocinante is not only Don Quixote’s horse, but also his double: like Don
        Quixote, he is awkward, past his prime, and engaged in a task beyond
        his capacities.

        Hence looking ready for the pie factory. 🙁

        1. No, not at all! I have had to search for your reply as I accessed it via the notifications….. which doesn’t give the full story….. Touchy I may be but I’m not that touchy! (We have history and form, folks……)

  59. 326181+ up ticks,
    Divide & conquer at it’s best in action, one saving grace I do not observe a riding crop in action.

    breitbart,
    UK: Nurse Arrested Trying to Remove Her 97-Year-Old Mother from Care Home,
    Check it out.

  60. Something that doesn’t appear to be being discussed, because clearly the Presidency is the most important part of he elections, is that if the postal votes are fraudulent it also affects many other ballots from the lowliest elected positions right up to the Senate.

    A real can of worms could be opened if voting ballot papers are found to be fixed.

    2. Don’t you mean “when”? Although I suspect that the truth will never be known – rather like the missing ballot boxes in Thanet.

      1. I would go for the US PTB opting for Biden and closing ranks, just to prevent such a scandal.

        The entire US system would become a global laughing stock.

      2. I don’t think Trump will let this go like Farage did. He has to see it through, I don’t see him backing down. And he has the wherewithall to throw at it.

        1. Yes, I like Nigel Farage far more than I do most politicians but he does lack testicular strength when the crunch comes. His surrender to Boris Johnson at the time of the last election without getting anything in return was pitiful to watch.

          1. TBF – if Nige had left his candidates in place, the vote would fragment and Labour would have got in.
            Arguably, we would still be in our current state but with even more inefficiency piled on.

    3. Why not abandon voting altogether and let the MSM – guided by Mr Soros and Mr Blair – decide the result for us. I am sure they are much wiser than we are and I am sure they would have our best interests at heart.

      1. Trump has to wait for the remaining states to declare before calling in the National Guard to seize the ballots and check the paperwork and its origin. Trump is not daft whereas Biden and the democrat elites are stupid.

        Too many years of getting away with defrauding the American people and lining their own pockets to care too much. They became so arrogant and neglectful that they thought they would get away with fraudulent voting activity despite the surveillance and internet recording their actions.

        Expect arrests soon.

        1. “…before calling in the National Guard…”

          Muriel Bowser, re-elected mayor of DC kicked the National Guard out of her city.
          Americans are a lost cause.

      2. Give it time.

        A Biden Presidency, where he stands down/dies and KH takes power will push the world along that path.

          4. In Jamaica, they named a town after him.

            ETA: “Hamilton Town in Saint Ann Parish, now Brown’s Town, which he founded and even named one of his sugar plantation ‘Antrim’.

        3. “White House Democratic candidate Kamala Harris has Ulster-Scots roots
          The Ulster-Scots Agency is excited at the prospect another American president with roots in the Province could take up office in the White House in the near future.”

          Talk about kicking us when we’re down…

          2. “John Blanke was a royal trumpeter in the courts of Henry VII and Henry VIII, and remains the only black Tudor for whom we have an identifiable image.”

            Might have been descended from this fella Ped 🙂

    5. At least many of the other positions are local so they will not have such a dramatic effect.

      If you believe in mass corruption, be concerned about senate seats. Whoever holds the senate has power and that race is also close.

    1. They were selling poppies in the Customer Service area at Tesco in Royston, Herts when I was there briefly the day before yesterday.

    2. 326181+ up ticks,
      Afternoon LD,
      Surely TM will use the cricket action after spreading the news rhetorically, locally, &
      Boycott.

    3. I asked at my local M&S whether the whole store would remain open or just the food hall, as with the first “lockdown”. The guy on the door said, “Madam, we need money and you need clothes”. Tempting to take that as a comment on what I was wearing! They’re still selling their full range of goods.

      1. I think there was such a hoo-hah about the situation in Wales that they decided to let supermarkets sell their full range. I believe garden centres are still open too.

        1. They have backtracked on closing down stables as well following concerted pressure from equine organisations.

        2. I called in at the farm shop at our local garden centre (Coton Garden Centre) for meat and veg today. The full range of everything that garden centres sell was available, only the café was closed.

      2. Ah, but you’ll get a Covid PC standing outside the exit searching through your purchases and telling you to return ‘non-essential’ items.

    4. Tesco simply aren’t that stupid. A nice as it is to kick the big guy, they just don’t foul up in that manner.

    5. Good job no-one said ‘Military personnel are non-essential items’ before WWI and WWII.

      2. I WENT into a public ‘ouse to get a pint o’ beer,
        The publican ‘e up an’ sez, ” We serve no red-coats here.”
        The girls be’ind the bar they laughed an’ giggled fit to die,
        I outs into the street again an’ to myself sez I:
        O it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ ” Tommy, go away ” ;
        But it’s ” Thank you, Mister Atkins,” when the band begins to play
        The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,
        O it’s ” Thank you, Mister Atkins,” when the band begins to play.

        I went into a theatre as sober as could be,
        They gave a drunk civilian room, but ‘adn’t none for me;
        They sent me to the gallery or round the music-‘alls,
        But when it comes to fightin’, Lord! they’ll shove me in the stalls!
        For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ ” Tommy, wait outside “;
        But it’s ” Special train for Atkins ” when the trooper’s on the tide
        The troopship’s on the tide, my boys, the troopship’s on the tide,
        O it’s ” Special train for Atkins ” when the trooper’s on the tide.

        Yes, makin’ mock o’ uniforms that guard you while you sleep
        Is cheaper than them uniforms, an’ they’re starvation cheap.
        An’ hustlin’ drunken soldiers when they’re goin’ large a bit
        Is five times better business than paradin’ in full kit.
        Then it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an` Tommy, ‘ow’s yer soul? ”
        But it’s ” Thin red line of ‘eroes ” when the drums begin to roll
        The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,
        O it’s ” Thin red line of ‘eroes, ” when the drums begin to roll.

        We aren’t no thin red ‘eroes, nor we aren’t no blackguards too,
        But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;
        An’ if sometimes our conduck isn’t all your fancy paints,
        Why, single men in barricks don’t grow into plaster saints;
        While it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an` Tommy, fall be’ind,”
        But it’s ” Please to walk in front, sir,” when there’s trouble in the wind
        There’s trouble in the wind, my boys, there’s trouble in the wind,
        O it’s ” Please to walk in front, sir,” when there’s trouble in the wind.

        You talk o’ better food for us, an’ schools, an’ fires, an’ all:
        We’ll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.
        Don’t mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face
        The Widow’s Uniform is not the soldier-man’s disgrace.
        For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an` Chuck him out, the brute! ”
        But it’s ” Saviour of ‘is country ” when the guns begin to shoot;
        An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
        An ‘Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool – you bet that Tommy sees!

        1. What does your MR think of Kipling? There was a time when he was deeply unfashionable with English teachers.

  62. How strange that those who have spent the last four years asserting interference in the 2016 US election are now claiming there is no interference in the present one.

    My neighbour who is from Georgia says that she expected widespread vote rigging by Democrats and that Biden could not be bothered to canvass or hold rallies because he had it stitched up months ago. Her church group are active in resisting this fraud.

    Edit: The internet is teeming with examples of people whose postal ballots were stolen. The US mail service is also suspected of collusion being unionised.

        1. We went to see Ray Charles once in London, he was quite rude and nasty to the audience. If i remember correctly a lot of people walk out.
          He stopped mid song and accused people of taking photographs of him.
          How would he have known ?

          2. Not while he was singing playing the piano, along with the backing singers and the band playing. He stopped in the middle of a song !!

        3. I may have mentioned this site previously Richard, take a look at The Guitar Guy, he has a great version of Georgia On My Mind.
          Nice finish as well G G+ C F Fm C G7b9 Cmaj+9 🎵

    2. That might explain why no body actually turned up at his rallies.
      The BBC only managed to film the other camera crews at some rallies.

      1. What he said – or rather misread from the autocue – was irrelevant as the result had already been decided.

        1. Exactly Richard, but bad forward planning might have shown that what happened, made it all too obvious.

          4. A young nanny used to be enjoyable – one of the Norland ones, that is. (And that is ackshally true!)

          5. Was she the one i met at a house in Stanmore ?
            Left hand side of the road heading towards the station.

          6. Doubt it – mine was posh! I fancied her rotten – to no avail. I met her 40 years later. Still fancied her! But her husband was sitting next to her….

          7. I use this expression very reservedly Bill, i came a cross many lovely nannies whilst working in posh homes in London.
            Where did you live in Stanmore ?
            Did you know all the council flats at Spur (named after the never completed Northern line railway line extension) road next to Edgeware school were demolished and rebuilt as expensive apartments.

          8. In 1943 at 25 The Chase; 1945 to 1948 at 15 Marsh Lane. That house is long gone, though the Chase has upped and come!

            I left Stanmore in January 1949 and never returned. Apart from one trip down “memory lane” – which was a disappointment. Virtually none of the places and shops I remembered existed.

          9. The names ring a bell Bill but it’s years since i drove through Stanmore from the round about at the bottom of Brockely Hill. Our youngest and his lady live at Honey pot lane crossroads. Cannons Park. I think the flats are now on the site where the Gas holders use to be. I use to cycle past there on my way to and from work in Harrow.

        1. What happened to the ring in her nose? Did she sell it to the Owl and Pussy Cat for a shilling?

        2. If they were the Moor would have more of a Moore.
          We should be pleased that the BBC don’t have the chance to promote bameism in advertisements, it’s bad enough having to put up with announcers saying Bee beecee Eyeh Playarh.

          1. Not so sure: your comment stirred a thunk.

            “On 8 August 1503 Princess Margaret Tudor of England married King James IV of Scotland in Holyrood Abbey, becoming Queen of Scots and providing the Scottish throne with an heir, King James V. She would marry twice more before her death in 1541 and, like her ill-fated granddaughter Mary, Queen of Scots, Margaret’s choice of husband threatened her status as queen.”

          2. I am currently reading “The Gunpowder Plot” and there is a genealogy at the front. The Tudor line appears to have petered out as so many died without issue.

          3. James V’s mother was Margaret, Henry VIII’s sister.
            James V was father of Mary, Queen of Scots.
            Mary, QoS was mother of James I (England) VI (Scotland).
            While not wishing to start a NOTTL brawl, I would suggest that – very indirectly – the current Royal family do have a Tudor forebear.
            I could bore on about Elizabeth, the Winter Queen, who was George I’s grandmother …….

          4. Neither Mary nor Anne (Stuart) had surviving children, so we are talking VERY indirect. George was through a female distant relation. He wasn’t even the closest claimant at the time.

          5. The Tudor forbears are not indirect – the current Queen is descended through 15 generations from Henry VII – the first Tudor King. There’s a clear enough line of descent even if it does wander into a couple of daughters it’s still descent.

        2. I think he looks like very much like Harry when he was young, but the older version of Henry VIII presented above looks (to me, anyway!) as I think William will look in twenty years’ time, the length of the face, the little prissy mouth…..

    5. One version of his last words is that he is supposed to have said “Monks, monks, monks”.

    1. We keep seeing all this stuff but the bandwagon keeps rolling along regardless, nothing will come of any of these challenges.

      1. I think if the Republicans hold the Senate, then eventually Trump will have to back down and let Biden’s lot sort out the aftermath of Covid. The mid-terms are only two years away.

      2. I think you are wrong. Trump has excellent lawyers and will have prepared for a response to this fraud.

        Trump noticed it back in 2012 and predicted it at the last election in 2016. He has reiterated his concerns about postal voting on numerous occasions since.

        So many dodgy practices and statements advising serious ignorance of legislation at polling stations have been recorded that there is no possibility of Biden actually winning or gaining the presidency. He should be tried and in jail, a corrupt old man with delusions and dementia that he is.

          1. His escape clause perhaps. He should still be put away in an institution.

            It is not Biden alone but what he represents viz. a totally corrupt Democrat political elite comprising the Clintons, Obama’s and his own Biden family.

          3. buttegeig. – Oh top dems, not a chance.

            Its why they didn’t walk this election, the last election showed voters want change so like idiots they came back with more of the same.

          4. Sorry, but you can’t have a President Buttegeig. The sniggers from across the Atlantic every time his name is mentioned would drown out anything he said.

          5. Not a chance of him succeeding.
            He is gay and that will not go down well with the holier than thou churches.

          6. Well, him being gay is not going to help, but I doubt it has much to do with being holier than thou.

        2. It’s going to be uphill going with the media painting him as a bad loser though, and all the RINO rats pointing the finger.

          My guess is that they will admit just enough fraud that it’s believable, but they will try to say that it didn’t change the result of the election.

          What is puzzling me is why they let Biden stand in the first place if they were planning to win by fraud, which is looking like the case at the moment. Is there any other explanation for the sudden leaps in Biden votes, and the steady progression of Trump votes from several counts? It is looking like an uncoordinated effort by a lot of local TDS sufferers, that has got a bit out of control.

          1. They are mainly counting mail in ballots now.
            Democrats believe in covid and many used postal votes.
            Trump told his supporters that covid is finished, vote in person.

            With that, of course the votes now favour Biden.

    1. Someone has to keep the country running and pay for their furlough. She should be glad to live next door to such fine folk.

  66. Hello, what’s happened her, whilst I wasn’t paying attention?

    Covid lockdown stats FALSE: Whitty and Vallance quietly change data after ‘scaring’ Brits
    CORONAVIRUS statistics used to justify a second lockdown in England have quietly been amended, drastically lowering the number of anticipated daily deaths.
    By STEVEN BROWN
    00:00, Fri, Nov 6, 2020 | UPDATED: 00:15, Fri, Nov 6, 2020

    Today the country has gone back into a second national lockdown as cases of the novel virus continue to rise. But official projections have been quietly revised to no longer suggest deaths could soon overtake those in the first wave peak.

    On Saturday, graphics revealed during the Downing Street press conference suggested the UK would see up to 1,500 deaths a day by early December.

    This is far higher than the numbers seen during the first outbreak of the deadly virus back in Spring.

    However, government documents show the figures were far too high and have been “amended after an error was found”.

    This amendment comes after MPs voted to impose the new lockdown restrictions yesterday.

    ….

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1356770/Coronavirus-lockdown-statistics-chris-whitty-patrick-vallance

          4. No, just commented with a Doxyfile. I nearly spat my coffee out when I first realised that was a thing. It’s actually quite offensive. I considered complaining, but I am the only programmer in the company who speaks eighteenth century British English, so it wouldn’t have been worth the hassle of trying to explain to my colleagues why I was pissed off.

          8. Seems many of us ignore them all and carry on with life as usual.
            Or as usual as can be with the, usually ignored, lockdowns/restrictions.
            Our media doesn’t seem to report from those regions.

          9. Apart from the bankruptcies, the suicides and the unemployment, life continues as normal.

          10. 1984 revisited 🙁

            Current unemployment, failed businesses haven’t reached ’84s levels yet.

          13. And the unnecessary deaths from cancer which wouldn’t have happened had they been diagnosed and treated sooner. Then there are those on dialysis …

    3. This saga has become another ’45 minutes’ and ‘weapons of mass destruction’.
      Oh, for the days when we were given the choice between rulers who were stupid or intelligent; nowadays it’s between rulers who are stupid or mendacious.

    4. Ontario just had a budget. You will find scant information on the back of the business pages, everything else is Trump and covid.

      How to bury bad news.

        1. Sadly not – she hasn’t taken part for a few years. She is busier now than before she retired!

  72. Time to rain on the parade.

    Notwithstanding any voting fixes, both Biden and Trump have far exceeded the Dem/Rep votes last time out.

    I think Biden has a legitimate claim to be President and boy does it piss me off to write that.

    1. Then again John Major still holds the record for the most votes for any party in a UK General Election.
      14 million plus. Seems Maggie wasn’t missed by the Tories.

        1. %ages – turnout, of vote, of electorate
          1979 – 76.0, 43.9, 33.3
          1983 – 72.7, 42.4, 30.9
          1987 – 75.3, 42.3, 31.9
          1992 – 77.7, 41.9, 32.6
          1997 – 71.3, 30.7, 21.9
          2001 – 59.4, 31.7, 18.8
          2005 – 61.4, 32.4, 19.9
          2010 – 65.1, 36.1, 23.5
          2015 – 66.4, 36.8, 24.4
          2017 – 68.7, 42.4, 29.2
          2019 – 67.3, 43.6, 29.3

          EDIT:
          Conservative figures, of course, not the election winners!

          3. Sadly, Labour had passed laws preventing her from taking the necessary action and Heath would not allow the Parliamentary time needed to change that.

          5. Yes. She focused on defeating the trade unions, but the whole left wing machine in Education, Health, Social Services etc steamed on and made steady progress during the 80s.

          4. There are many similar accounts Grizz, so many that it is becoming obvious that the votes in key states for Democrats were fraudulently obtained.

            As I remarked earlier, Biden would have been the last choice of the rust belt voters. They had seen their jobs and livelihoods exported to China and witnessed at first hand Trump’s success in bringing those jobs back to the USA.

      2. With about 100 million early votes do you really think that there were millions of fraudulent ballots cast?

        1. This is widely believed to be common practice in the UK, and was all but admitted by a Labour activist when he commented on TV once that they would need a “sophisticated postal voting campaign” to beat Nigel Farage in a by-election. We also had a dodgy incident, again involving Farage, where some ballot boxes arrived suspiciously late at the count.
          So yes, it could very likely have happened in the US as well.

          1. When the vote count gets to 500 million from the 360 million citizens, I will believe this mass stitch up campaign.

            Yes there are probably some invalid votes but to achieve the numbers needed they will have had to print millions of spare ballots, it’s not just a container load here.

          1. why not just throw out all ballots and let Trumps family vote in a special election, that seems to be the only thing that will satisfy some.

            The US system may well be working correctly but there are so many naysayers on both sides that are refusing to accept anything that doesn’t match their interests that validity doesn’t matter.

            Tears will follow soon.

          2. Only by those that are determined to question the electoral organisation in every Democrat run state.

    4. I never thought you of all people would give up. You are wrong. The fraudulent voting was predicted by many and the predictions have been realised.

      Nobody is above the Law, least of all the obviously corrupt Biden family.

      2. It’s the absolute numbers, not the distribution.
        They are far too high. If it really is fraud on that scale then the aftermath will be dreadful and many will go to prison.

        1. I see what you’re saying, but TDS is also very widespread, and the left’s hatred for Trump is, to my mind, unreasonable.

          1. Agree completely, but as I note, the Biden absolute numbers suggest he’s the man.

            It will harm us, but I get to the point that if I’m going to drown I’ll drag an enemy down with me.

            The US (and for that matter the world) will live to regret this election.

    5. Not my political ideology but if the majority legitimately vote Biden then he should be President. Even if he introduced his granddaughter as his dead son. And then he confused her with her cousin.

      Clearly a stitch up has happened. He was never going to be President for long. It was all about getting a Left thinking blackish woman into the Whitehouse.

          1. 326181 + up ticks,
            Evening BB2,
            These Isles have been in
            scamville since the mid 70s
            odiously gaining strength
            ongoing, treacherous deceit via the polling booth have played their part as in the USA.

    6. It was mooted at one point that the number of votes in Michigan exceeded the number of registered voters. Probably hyperbole, but I do wonder if we will see a “turnout” unprecedented in the US.

      1. the vote is way up on previous years but maybe that is simply due to many voters voting against their worst nightmare.

        2. But was he really their worst nightmare? Only in their own minds, surely. The economy is doing well, the country is in good shape etc.

          1. Inconvenient truths, bb2. Not ones that got much airing on the MSM either, I should imagine.

          2. Much of the economy fell into the covid hole, scare stories about covid cases reaching 100,000 a day, threats about obamacare being shutdown with many losing health insurance, plenty of bad news(?)..

            If you are left or even middle of the road, you will not read foxnews or the western journal. Most days you cannot find a common story between fox and CNN, their views are so different.

          3. I think you will know that my views are right wing, but I don’t read Fox News or the Western Journal.

      2. It’s already well beyond unprecedented.

        One comment I heard was to the effect that anyone who thought Trump was humiliated is wrong, he has far more votes than he did last time.

  73. Anyone read any Philip McCutchan novels? I see there are several series and they sound interesting and have decent reviews.

  75. The Liverpool LAMP pathway – issues arising from the Repeatable Rapid COVID test:

    Analytical specificity (ASp) of this new RT-LAMP assay was 100% and analytical sensitivity (ASe) was between 1×101 and 1×102 copies per reaction when using a synthetic DNA target. The overall diagnostic sensitivity (DSe) and specificity (DSp) of RNA RT-LAMP was 97% and 99% respectively, relative to the standard of care rRT-PCR. When a CT cut-off of 33 was employed, above which increasingly evidence suggests there is a low risk of patients shedding infectious virus diagnostic sensitivity was 100%. The DSe and DSp of Direct RT-LAMP (that does not require RNA extraction) was 67% and 97%, respectively. When setting CT cut-offs of ≤33 and ≤25, the DSe increased to 75% and 100%, respectively, time from swab-to-result, CT < 25, was < 15 minutes

    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.06.30.20142935v4

    This is how the Rapid Repeatable (RT-LAMP) test starting to be trialled in Liverpool performs against the ‘gold standard’ rRT-PCR test.

    But what is Ct and what is its significance to the reliability of the RT-LAMP tests in comparison with the existing ‘gold standard’?

    https://youtu.be/S_1Z8cSXI-Q

    1. That was quite interesting and easy to understand – also it reinforced what I’ve been thinking. Why are the Sage boffins not following this sensible advice? What do they hope to gain from keeping people fearful with this ‘casedemic’?

        1. Certainly the companies providing the test kits and doing the lab tests are making lots of it – costing us taxpayers a fortune.

          Sage members and others setting this agenda should declare their vested interests. We know Vallance has £ billions invested in vaccines.

      2. So that we will all willingly volunteer to file past with our sleeves rolled up for The Jab.

  76. Noah Webster produced the first dictionary that included American spellings of words.
    Or, as they’re known in Britain, mistakes.

    1. My neighbour, who was then in the USAF, walked into our local garden centre and said:
      “I want to sod my back yard” – but what did he mean in English?

      2. Did he then go on to explain that he wanted all of his garden turfed? If so, you should have told him to tell whoever he was ordering turfs from that what he wanted was ‘sod all’.

      3. Jack Leach wrote a book “Sods I Have Cut On The Turf” – I have a copy somewhere. It is, unsurprisingly, about racing.

  78. Good evening. It’s been a while, but one of you owes my choice of charities £50 because he/ she was brave enough to accept my bet re the US presidential election result. So please tell MolaMola (?) to pay £50 to any combo of the Royal British Legion & Red Cross he/ she desires.

      1. I’m sure the charities can wait, but ti will be mine that gain £50, unless you too want a bet on the matter?

        1. I’m pragmatic enough to believe KH has won.

          But I would like to see the whole thing analysed to see whether or not it really is a corrupt as I suspect.

          If it isn’t, good luck to Biden, I give him less than a year.

          1. I completely agree because I look forward to yet more of Trump’s lies and misleading claims being exposed.

          3. Great. Jail them all. The irony of what I’m reading on this forum is that it’s exactly the type of claims and threats of legal action I recall coming from Remain from 2016-2019. Trump and his supporters need to accept the result and plan for 2024.

          4. I have to confess that I do not want to become the equivalent of a Remainer regarding referendums or elections. Even if I think that the Biden camp, or just his aides, have colluded I shall not demand a second vote.

          5. Indeed.
            It will amuse me if Trump manages to screw up American politics and progression, through lawfare, in the same way that Remain did here.

          6. I think the electorate take a dim view of politicians taking legal action over elections. I remember the Tories contesting the result in Winchester and they got a replay of the by-election, and then lost heavily. Served them right. Of course the same happened to Remain in the 2019 GE, so the Republicans need to think long and hard before backing legal challenges.

          7. The big difference is that the Yanks now have a Supreme Court that will read the Constitution rather than the newspapers.

          11. I’d be more inclined to expect a more spectacular end and in such a way that it will open the path for some swinging restrictions on traditional American freedoms.

          12. Quite possibly.

            Covid is giving totalitarians an awful lot of openings, combine that with Antifa, BLM and the new Democrats plus defunding the police, plus Democrat downgrading of the military and you might well be right.

          14. I’ve had relatives who suffered from it, but does it really kill?

            I can’t help thinking that it’s one of those things that one has when one dies.

            Without being callous, it’s similar to the fact that more men die with prostate cancer than ever die of prostate cancer.

          15. It’s the effects of dementia kill. Several NOTTLers know what I’m talking about.
            Falls … poor hygiene leading to infections … muddling up or forgetting medication… forgetting to eat or drink … wandering out into the cold … even mundane conditions like constipation poisoning the body and leading to further confusion and weakened immune system.

          16. I completely agree with everything you describe, but I ask again, does dementia itself kill?

            To me it’s like saying that arthritis kills (not a great example but I can’t immediately think of a better one) because it prevents exercise, stops one opening containers, slows down reactions and the pain causes people to “give up”.

    3. If and when the result is announced, and if I’m the loser, I will happily donate 50 quid to the Royal British Legion.

    4. Kindly remove the upvote you just made on one of my posts, Cochrane. Not really appropriate from someone who just made a personal attack in another post. Thank you.

        1. “you have swallowed Trump’s propaganda so completely”
          With this post, you just raised the aggression on that thread by about 200%.
          This site was probably the most mild, civilised and enjoyable discussion about the US election that was taking place anywhere in the world until that point.

    5. Look back to the posts. It was to a charity, not the winner’s choice of charities. I may be wrong but I don’t think so.

      1. To be honest, I can’t remember and I deleted my old account. But if we both favour the RBL, then all is good.

    1. Good night Peddy. So, now that no-one can spoil the ending of your previous book, exactly was its title?

        1. Afternoon Early evening, Peddy. Was it the butler or Colonel Mustard in the library with the glass of poisoned wine who did it?

          :-))

          1. Buenas tardes, Elsie

            It was neither, but just as you think you’ve sussed who dunnit, the plot twists & you’re back in limbo. Time & time again. A really good book.

          2. I’ve just watched Martin Scorcese’s THE DEPARTED, starring Leonardo DiCaprio and Matt Damon. Since both young men have a typical American short haircut, I was totally confused throughout the film as to which one was which. I’ll have to read the synopsis in IMDb tomorrow to fully understand the plot.

    1. That’s what happens when you exploit and collude with a) young children and at the other end of the spectrum b) the elderly with dementia. No inhibitions and they drop you in it.

  83. I’ve just caught the beginning of the BBC news. The staff can hardly contain themselves! Christmas has come early! Biden is almost there! There will probably be a party in the canteen later!

    3. The canteen is closed, Minty. They’ll have to nip out to Tesco and have cake and champers at their desks.

      2. There is a queue of taxis outside the Savoy waiting for the chef to finish the takeaways ordered for the staff at Búggercasting House. One taxi per person – to preserve social distancing, apparently – and stop anyone else getting at the caviar and champers. ‘Put it on accounts, driver’.

    4. Biden takes the rust belt is about the most implausible voting outcome ever. The voting is transparently fraudulent and Trump and Giuliani will send Biden and his cohorts to jail in due course.

    2. I wonder what the penalties are if one
      chooses to spend Christmas with people
      who are not one’s relatives … ?

      2. I’ve heard that. later this month, plenty Americans are planning big get-togethers to mark the death of a pet turkey.

    3. How about putting some of those 15 minute COVID test kits in crackers? Then the family members could return home at the end of the day knowing they have or haven’t succumbed.

      1. In a box of a dozen crackers there should be 2 paper slips reading covid-19 positive and 10 with covid-19 negative. Just about as accurate as tests I’ve heard.

    4. How about putting some of those 15 minute COVID test kits in crackers? Then the family members could return home at the end of the day knowing they have or haven’t succumbed.

  86. Our wartime heroes are being treated shamefully

    Rules are depriving our wartime heroes of the human contact that makes life worth living

    ALLISON PEARSON

    “They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old. Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.” Laurence Binyon’s For The Fallen is almost guaranteed to bring a lump to every throat on Remembrance Day.

    Those who survived the Second World War (the last veteran of the First died in 2012) have indeed lived to be old, but they know they are the lucky ones. With sepia-hued memories of those who left this world too young, our greatest generation are blessed with a there-but-for-the-grace-of- God-go-I perspective. Grandparents and great-grandparents now, they have never stopped doing their duty, seeing out their days with grit, stoicism and an admirable lack of fuss.

    Their spirit is embodied in the person of Her Majesty the Queen, the only living head of state to have served in the Second World War. The young Princess Elizabeth joined the Auxiliary Territorial Service (ATS) and trained as a military driver. Aged 94, she still motors to church and, frankly, you wouldn’t want to be the one to suggest that maybe Ma’am’s days behind the wheel are over.

    While politicians have run around like headless chickens during the pandemic, the Queen has taken sensible precautions while acting with undaunted resolve. She attracted criticism when she turned up to the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory without a mask. I’m sure Her Majesty had reasoned, as her parents did during the Blitz, that her people would not wish to see the monarch cowed.

    Earlier this week, the Queen made an unannounced visit to the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier in Westminster Abbey just hours before the second lockdown began. Better than almost anyone alive she knows what is owing to the dead, and to those who served this country. Wonderfully, she would not be deterred from showing the respect that generation deserves.

    Compare and contrast this then with the horrifying lack of respect when Humberside Police arrested Ylenia Angeli, a 73-year-old retired nurse, for trying to remove her 97-year-old mother from a care home. Ylenia, the mother of former Coronation Street actress Leandra Ashton, had not been allowed to see her dementia-stricken mum for nine months because of government guidance on Covid. Like hundreds of thousands of other relatives, Mrs Angeli found the lack of contact absolutely heartbreaking.

    You can just imagine what the wartime generation, if only they could be heard, would make of crazy, cruel rules that aim to keep them “safe” while depriving them of the human contact that makes life worth living. I have had several hundred traumatic emails from readers (see a selection below) who simply cannot believe that such inhumanity is permitted in this country. What the hell have we become when an 80-year-old says that touching her husband’s hand in an ambulance felt “illicit”? Who are we when a distraught man must cash in his life savings to buy a month’s stay in a care home to be beside the darling wife he is forbidden to visit? Not the country that men and women fought and died for from 1939 to 1945, that’s for sure.

    Last week, I wrote an open letter to the Social Care Minister Helen Whately, begging her to allow relatives to be designated key workers so they can be tested regularly and visit loved ones in care homes. I really don’t know how Mrs Whateley, and her boss, Matt Hancock, can sleep at night. Their box-ticking indifference has caused a vast, fathomless sea of anguish.

    If the government, which killed so many old people by returning them to care homes with Covid in the spring, thinks it can rescue itself now through “saving” old people by condemning them to hell on Earth then it deserves the contempt of each and every one of us.

    If her Majesty knew what was being done to her contemporaries I’m sure she would be aghast. (Please can someone tell her?) On this Remembrance weekend, spare a thought for every man and woman, once young and valiant, now locked inside a care home by the cowards we have become. They have not lived so long, nor so well, to be betrayed and abandoned by the nation that they love.

    Below are some of the letters I’ve received from Telegraph readers illustrating the torment they’ve faced…
    ____________________________________________________________________________________

    In March, Mum will be 100 and we are all hoping we can get together to celebrate

    Christine Vincent

    Our mother is 99 and currently in a care home in Leeds. Unlike many residents, she has all her faculties and knows exactly what is going on in the world. My sister has written the poem below, setting out her feelings:

    I’m 99

    I enjoyed my life… now it’s an existence
    I enjoyed my family… now they’re unreachable
    I enjoyed my outings… now I’m trapped
    I’m 99

    I need my family… l’m so lonely
    I need a hug… It’s not allowed
    I need a chat… but there’s endless silence
    I’m 99

    I’m a prisoner… but I’m innocent
    I have rights… but they’re ignored
    I fought for freedom… but now I have none
    I’m 99… please help

    Until the lockdown, Mum was used to going out and about with my sister. They would go on shopping trips or for coffee at the garden centre. My brother would take her to the local races where she would have a flutter on the horses. In the last eight months she has only been out twice, for hospital visits.

    Every day, not only are people dying of Covid, they are also dying of loneliness and broken hearts; sadly the latter are not in the country’s statistics. In March, Mum will be 100 and we are all hoping we can get together to celebrate – she has always enjoyed family gatherings. She was married for 60 years before my father passed away in 2006.

    They had served this country through all those years as good upright citizens. My father flew Lancaster bombers during the Second World War and we are now passing their life stories on to her great grandchildren. What message do we tell them, now that she is locked up by those whose freedom her generation fought for?
    _______________________________________

    My mother may only have months to live; each day before lockdown my father or I would visit her – now she has nothing

    Victoria Amphlett

    My parents, Robin and Audrey, married in 1956 and have been utterly devoted to each other ever since. My brother and I had happy childhoods and we are all still very close. My mother is in a nursing home, suffering from dementia, and it is breaking our hearts.

    Each day my father looks at photographs of their lives together and makes a postcard, which he sends to my mother. The care home must have about 100 by now! The other day he photographed my curtains, which Mummy made in 1971 and I’m still using. Last time I visited my mother I sat 6ft away in a mask, apron and gloves and she ground her teeth and then went to sleep. She may only have months to live. Each day before lockdown my father or I would visit her. Now she has nothing. It’s all unbearable. Please continue to help us all.
    _______________________________________

    Mum is so confused and thinks that it’s me that doesn’t want to see her

    Elizabeth Coombes

    My dear mum Audrey is in a care home in Lincolnshire. It is good and she is well looked after, but I haven’t been able to hug or hold her since March 12. Mum is 92.

    I am her only daughter and my two children and husband cannot see her at all. She has dementia and I long to kiss her and take her in my arms. I have been able to see her with a carer across a table with a mask on. She is so confused and thinks that it’s me that doesn’t want to see her.

    Skype doesn’t work as mum keeps wanting to turn the computer off. I read her poems, I tell her all the things in my heart, but the conversations are stilted and the presence of a carer offers no privacy and I feel tense and upset. We are not allowed to wave at the window either, which surely can only brighten her day.

    Mum is a strong, funny lady who lived all her life in the same house. I know she loves me so much. I love her so very much and know that she is waiting for me. Surely something more can be done. We are Britain. This is 2020.

    _______________________________________

    This is a totally inhumane way to treat elderly people at the end of their lives

    Linda Mathews

    My mum was admitted to a new care home in March. She is 88, very frail but compos mentis. My dad is 89 and lives at the family bungalow in Larne, Northern Ireland. They were allowed a few weeks of 15-minute visits behind a screen before the home went into a second lockdown.

    They had their 60th anniversary last week, at which time my mum was allowed downstairs to look at dad through a window. They can’t hear much at the best of times. This is a totally inhumane way to treat elderly people at the end of their lives. I spoke to mum last week on FaceTime; she is literally dying of loneliness. Her words to me: “It’s just so lonely.”
    _______________________________________

    Can you explain to me how I can pass on the virus when I haven’t got it?

    Keith Banks (former Conservative voter)

    My wife Jane has been in a care home since August 3. We have been married for 42 years. She suffers from a multitude of conditions: cerebral amyloid angiopathy, dementia, very limited mobility and continence issues. From August 3 to September 21 I was allowed to visit outside on five occasions, and each visit was sadder than the last.

    She called me once, very confused and upset; it was horrible. I have not been allowed to visit her since that date and I have no idea when I will be able to visit again. I worry that the longer this enforced separation continues, the chances increase that Jane will forget me completely.

    I have had three swab tests at home, all negative. I have told the care home this but I still can’t visit. Can you explain to me how I can pass on the virus when I haven’t got it? I have been overwhelmed with feelings of guilt, anger, frustration and loneliness.
    _______________________________________

    The care home manager is outstanding, but she is being tied up in knots by edicts from above

    Mhairi McEwan

    This country is letting my dad down. My 85-year-old father Eddie is a brave, intelligent and staunchly independent man. He served his country for 22 years in the RAF. Dad survived a stroke, which left him with severe speech aphasia. This man, who previously could do The Telegraph and Times crosswords in 10 minutes, could now barely speak.

    I found he enjoyed looking at books with old photographs – the RAF Association Magazine helped me unlock his love of aeroplanes – but he can’t communicate. On March 20, I moved my father to an excellent care home near me in London, so I could go in regularly and be the speech lifeline he needed.

    I unpacked his room, but I have not been allowed in since. Imagine my horror to be told I was not allowed to visit him at all – and the weeks turned into months. Then only garden visits, then a plastic pod… now no visiting at all. Video calls and phone calls cannot work with a person who has speech aphasia.

    The care home manager is outstanding, but she is being tied up in knots by edicts from above – humanity is overruled by risk management.

    This is a vital issue of human rights for elderly people, impacting the very essence of how we value our senior citizens. We have failed to see them as ‘people’ with the same needs and rights as we have. This is actively discriminating against old people and their families by essentially imprisoning them – without possibility of appeal or parole. It’s inhumane and disproportionate.
    _______________________________________

    If we asked these elderly residents about the risk, what would they choose? Not this, that’s for sure

    Claire Upson

    We go in once a week for half an hour to see Mum. She is behind a Perspex screen and we are seated away with a mask. We find it so hard to be in the same room but not be able to hold Mum’s hand. I come away in tears each time; in fact I am crying as I write this.

    Mum has gone downhill very fast and the pain and heartache are immense. The staff are doing their best and are always willing help her to FaceTime but it seems so cruel for Mum at the end of what’s been a rich and full life to be spending this time without the comfort of her family.

    If we asked these elderly residents about the risk, what would they choose? Not this that’s for sure; being a virtual prisoner. I think the mental health cost is far worse than the risk to their health because as this pandemic continues to go on how long might that be for ?
    _______________________________________

    They both burst into tears as the one thing they each wanted to do was hold hands, but it wasn’t permitted

    Liz Oldfield

    My dad Doug, 94, is virtually blind and Mum, 92, has dementia and is in a care home. The two visits that were allowed were a nightmare. Dad was forced to wear a mask, which pulled off his hearing aids, and plastic gloves, which he struggled to get on, partly because he couldn’t see what he was doing. He was then draped in a white plastic apron and sat, in his wheelchair, waiting to see Mum for the first time for weeks. She was then wheeled out to the visiting area.

    Mum couldn’t hear a word Dad said and he couldn’t see her. They were forced to sit, observed by staff, two metres apart. They both burst into tears as the one thing they each wanted to do was hold hands, but it wasn’t permitted. They have been married for 68 years. Dad asked me to take him home as he described the visit as “torture”.

    Dad has been tested three times now and Mum is tested every week. You can’t pass on a virus that you don’t have! Sadly, Mum’s dementia means that she suffers delusions. Heartbreakingly, one of the ones she has regularly is that she is in prison for something she didn’t do.
    _______________________________________

    We just want to be able to sit with my father, chat, have a cup of tea, wheel him back to his old home or down to the beach on a cold, bright day

    Jayne Swallow

    My father, who is 98, is totally immobile and partially deaf and, while having some cognitive limitations, is perfectly able to hold a conversation and is aware of what is going on.

    From June, we were able to book 45-minute visits in the garden. Now it’s winter, there is an indoor option. We only tried this once as it was a disaster. I had my temperature taken at the door. I had to wear a mask. There was a full-height acrylic wall between us. My father was sitting in a corridor with people going past all the time. He couldn’t hear me, or even see me clearly, and became tearful.

    My mother died last month. We have not told my father that she has died as he would not have been able to attend the funeral. My father doesn’t have long to live. We just want to be able to sit with him, chat, have a cup of tea, wheel him back to his old home or down to the beach on a cold, bright day. Is this too much to ask on behalf of someone who served in the RAF during the war and is in the last period of his life?
    _______________________________________

    It was the Government that sent Covid-positive people into care homes and, because of this, I can’t visit my dad

    Wendy Fairhurst

    I am living in total fear that I will never see my dad again or, if I do, it will just be when he is taking his last breath. The home has told me my father’s mental health has deteriorated and that of every single resident, not just those with dementia.

    It was the Government that sent Covid-positive people into care homes and, because of this, I cannot even visit my dad at a window. There has been an outcry about getting university students home for Christmas. Boris has reassured families that this will happen. There has been no focus on families in care homes being reunited for Christmas. I feel the Government does not care that this is an urgent priority.
    _______________________________________

    In my heart I feel we have let Mum down at a time when she needs us most

    Sheila Paterson

    My mother is a kind, cheerful lady of 97. I have seen Mum only once, outside, in September. Currently only one visit by two people per week of 30 minutes outside under an open-sided tent is being permitted. There is no hand holding allowed and you can’t hand over gifts or share photographs or any of the things that help to make a visit more meaningful. In my heart I feel we have let Mum down at a time when she needs us most.
    _______________________________________

    I am not allowed to visit my mother any more and it breaks my heart because she doesn’t really understand

    Sue Thompson

    My mother has been sentenced to die alone until apparently an “end of life” scenario develops, as quoted by the care home manager. My mother is 91. She has Alzheimer’s dementia and, prior to lockdown, she still remembered me and other members of the family and was very caring to what she called “the other poor souls” in the care home.

    Now, with the complete lack of outside contact, she has lost a remarkable amount of weight and has declined rapidly. I am not allowed to visit any more and it breaks my heart because she doesn’t really understand. This situation has had a very bad effect on my own mental health. There is this terrible frustration that I cannot do anything about my mother’s plight and I cannot help her. She has been taken from me.
    _______________________________________

    We never got to say goodbye to my nan

    Laura Osborne

    My nan’s name was Rose Moody. Nan had celebrated her 100th birthday in February. When we went into lockdown, the home she was in made the decision that residents were not able to have visitors of any kind. So we went for six months without seeing her. Mum and me were her whole world.

    Nan had dementia, albeit early stages, but she could not see and could not hear, so even a simple phone call was traumatic for her. In August, after a fight, we were allowed an outside visit. My nan sobbed all the way through the visit so I took my mask off to console her, only to be shouted at by the nurse, and told: “She can hear when she wants to hear”.

    This absolutely broke me and was to be the last time I ever saw my nan. She passed away on the October 16 and I am completely heartbroken. We never got to say goodbye.
    _______________________________________

    To think that my mother and the rest of our family may never see Dad again is tearing us apart

    Nick Bennett

    My parents are both 84. My father has suffered with dementia for some years but was cared for at home by my amazing mother, who is not in the best of health herself. After a crisis, my father is now in a home and my mother is on her own after 64 years of marriage. She never leaves her home, has groceries delivered and has pretty much zero risk of catching or transmitting Covid. Despite this, she is unable to visit my father and it’s breaking her heart. I was with her at the weekend and spotted a photo of him tucked under her pillow.

    To think that my mother and the rest of our family may never see Dad again is tearing us apart. My mother has said that she would have found it easier to deal with him dying than going through this as at least she could start the process of grieving. With this situation we’re in limbo – constantly worrying about how he is. To think that he may die alone in that care home, believing that his family abandoned him, brings me to tears.
    _______________________________________

    Mum has deteriorated so much from not seeing us physically and it’s breaking Dad’s heart by not being with her

    Tracy Giddings

    My mum’s Alzheimer’s got worse in lockdown. Mum became very aggressive and she was screaming that she just wanted to leave the house. Mum was put into 14 days isolation in a nursing home, which turned into 21 days as a Covid test proved inconclusive. So finally, after three weeks, my dad was allowed a garden visit for one hour a week. And now they are saying a further three months of isolation, which will be January!

    Tracey’s mum’s health has deteriorated in the past few months

    The home is currently in lockdown and has been since September. Up until June, Dad was caring for Mum at home. They have been married 62 years and he has seen her for six hours in five months and I can see it is taking a toll on both of them. Mum has deteriorated so much from not seeing us physically and it’s breaking Dad’s heart by not being with her. Myself and my sister have not seen Mum since June.

    I feel Mum would be better off in prison as we would be able to visit her there.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/generation-has-not-lived-long-nor-abandoned-nation-loves/

    1. That is one of the saddest things I have ever read. I can’t believe that our once tolerant, compassionate and caring society has come to this.

      “Humanity is overruled by risk management.”

        1. Things that would have been unthinkable a year ago are happening now.
          I fear that all is already lost.

          1. I remember seeing the video from Catalonia where Police and others stood their ground in front of imported thugs from Barcelona. An elderly lady was thrown to the ground with her little dog on the lead.

      2. It’s a dilemma. How can the vulnerable be protected without cutting them off from the world in this sadistic manner?

        1. The elderly don’t have much time left, covid or no covid. They should be able to live their lives, not just be left to exist.

          1. Perhaps somebody should ask THEM what they want.
            There is more to being alive than not being dead!

          3. Indeed. I asked the question because you can be sure that lockdown supporters will regard the article as hypocritical, or at least muddled. “You want to protect them yet you want to meet them?” they will ask, mockingly.

      3. Except to say that our own useless and entirely incompetent government have absolutely no idea what a risk assessment is. Had they this understanding, the predictions of Whitty and Vallance will have been properly examined and discounted for the lies they are.

        1. Indeed. “Risk assessment” is now just risk avoidance. Nobody wants to put their head above the parapet and exercise any kind of judgment, balance or common sense.

    3. Our newsagent told us that his father-in-law just died recently in care home. The family had not been allowed to see him since the Covid Laws were imposed. His daughter saw him the day before he died. Only the “permitted” handful were allowed to attend the funeral. He did not have Covid-19.

  87. Gorgeous afternoon – much milder. Nice bike ride to the goats – who were, as usual, pleased to see me.

    Sorted printer problem. Te solution is to have a nephew who is a genius with IT… He took over my PC and did he needful in two minutes. When I asked him what he had done, he couldn’t remember. His fingers just knew what to do!

    1. I have just been through that setting up a zoom call for the boss.

      So many How did you do that questions were to me just a case of reading the screen but the process certainly fooled her.

  89. “Jack S Oh Bull • 2 hours ago
    Eight years of Obama, eight years of POTUS Harris coming up.
    You Americans are dumb enough”

    Another quiet day on the fora. Even the Americans aren’t biting 🙁

  90. It has all gone a bit quiet. Has Biden and his family taken a flight to Saudi Arabia or what?

    There is surely no place for these crooks in the USA.

      1. The Founding Fathers would be turning in their graves if they could see America today.
        Either that or turning round and heading back to Plymouth.

      2. No chance. I have read widely about Thomas Jefferson, a great man with interests in Art and Architecture, and admire the founding fathers. There is no connection between Joe Biden, an ignoramus, and Jefferson whereas I believe Trump is understanding of Jefferson’s legacy.

        Trump might be no Jefferson but he has a certain understanding of the history of the United States’ Constitution and what caused its creation. Biden, by contrast, is an entirely ignorant player. Biden is a fool and merely a tool of the Democrat political elites, poor demented fucker that he is.

          2. I am the same, Corim. I have never
            doubted the truth of God … that
            belief sometimes makes life harder;
            it is not easier when one sees what we
            are doing and how we are behaving !
            I believe God gave us this earth to
            challenge us …. so far we seem to be
            making a great mess-up!

            I don’t wish to upset you but how is Sinbad?

    2. Biden is speaking tonight. He has continually said there would be no claims of victory until the results were known which has scuppered his plans for premature claims of victory.

      On the other hand, Trump seems to be going down with all tweets tweeting.

      To quote Lyndsey Graham who is one of trumps bigest supporters “It is incumbent upon the Trump administration to make specific cases of voter irregularity”.

        1. how do we know this? Trump campaign mud slinging? In case you hadn’t noticed, they have both been digging deep and dirty. They are all as corrupt as hell and shouldn’t be anywhere near government.

          1. The Democrats do appear to be more corrupt than the Trump camp, as they haven’t managed to pin anything on Trump in four+ years.

        1. And?

          We sold many thousand copies of our software, there were still isolated bugs discovered after many years. Use in 1,300 locations does not guarantee accuracy.

          I would be more cautious of other locations where the knowingly claim that everything is all wonderful and sunny.

      2. This kind of error should have been picked up in testing, especially as this software is, as I understand it, not a new product.

        1. Should have, would have!

          Unless you are into mission critical software, expect known bugs to be in the code when it is released..

          1. Voting software should get mission critical testing, sorry. No excuses. It shouldn’t be high risk because the deployment date is known well in advance, and the requirements shouldn’t be changing a lot.

  93. From the Speccie’s Covid-19 update @ 15:53 hrs today

    The number of babies harmed or killed over the first lockdown rose by 20%, according to Ofsted’s chief inspector Amanda Spielman.

    ***********************************************************

    And SAGE don’t care

    1. Can’t be bothered to look but do Vallance and Whitty have a normal family life or do they spend their days in coffins in the cellar?

          1. My old cat, Joe, used to love sitting on a radiator. He had his own towel over it to make it more comfy.

  95. Good grief, a few Biden supporters on here are attempting to influence these threads.

    They have already lost bigtime and their espoused loyalties will be seen as wrong.

      1. don5 put me in that group.
        I’m no fan of Trumps but Biden is as scary as hell. Well not grandad Joe particularly but some of those democrats in congress would make my detested Trudeau appear right wing.

        1. “I’m no fan of Trumps but Biden is as scary as hell….”

          Like the prospect of Corbyn in No.10 last December.

          1. He would have trashed the place. Treading in mud from his ‘Allotment’ and leaving masks and dirty coffee cups all over the place. He has been Pierced.

            One that loves dissent and consorts with peopke that wish to kill us all Aand the other one who is arrestested an fined

          3. No, it was not what you posted,
            your post has been ‘edited’…
            by whom I do not know, I will
            discuss this with ‘The Boss’
            and come back to you.

  96. Afternoon, all. Whoever is only now questioning Bojo’s leadership skills is a bit slow on the uptake.

      1. You’ve asked this question before and I answered you then. I am only commenting now on the lack of Bojo’s leadership qualities, which has been apparent for some time. Back in November last year I was telling people Bojo wasn’t reliable and they would be disappointed. It may even be in the archives here.

        1. So which party should we have voted for back in December?
          UKIP? Nigel’s fan club? For Britain? Which?

          1. I agree with Conway. For all the difference it makes*, I voted UKIP, but I’d have voted TBP if I could.

            *None whatsoever – Crispin Blunt has a massive majority. Reigate has been Tory since 1906.

          2. I said yesterday (to my Limp Dim neighbour) that if voting made any difference it wouldn’t be allowed. No matter who you vote for, the government always gets in 🙁

          4. Ken Livingstone, among others…
            “If voting changed anything they’d ban voting.”

            “Don’t vote – it only encourages them!”

          5. “For all the difference it makes*, I voted UKIP,…”

            Last years Euro elections I voted for Tommy Robinson. It was either him or Nigel’s communist Claire Fox.
            As always, the least bad option.

          8. The last Conservative who attracted positive votes rather than negative not as bad as the alternative votes was Margaret Thatcher.

            I would have voted positively for David Davis but negatively for Cameron against Brown; very negatively against Corbyn and would only have voted positively if Owen Paterson or John Redwood were Conservative Party leaders.

          9. 1990 Maggie withdrew from the leadership contest rather than be sacked by the majority of Tory MPs in the second round. Even those who had voted for her out of loyalty in the first round told her they wouldn’t support her in the second round.
            Too many former Conservative voters had had of enough of Maggie. 1990 by-election results, Mid-Staffs & Eastbourne brought an end to Maggie’s reign.
            I agree Davis losing to Cameron is where it all went wrong.

          10. Maggie should have stood down after her 10 year stint; it’s impossible to remain sane after that amount of time at the top, taking all the pressure.
            But then, if you have that amount of drive and self-confidence, you are not the type to meekly take a back seat.

          11. Indeed aa. “The lady’s not for turning! ” was her downfall.
            By the late ’80s Maggie and her advisers had lost touch with Conservative voters. It was those former Conservative voters, at Eastbourne by-election especially, who brought Maggie’s reign to an end.

        2. I agree – I too have always expressed my very grave doubts about the bonking buffoon. But what was the alternative once Farage had pathetically surrendered?

          I must say I thought Richard Tice looked like a possible successor to Farage – I have no idea if he is tough enough.

          2. Tice seems to get a fair bit of radio media attention.
            I’d vote for a party led by Tice, unlike any party led by Nigel.

  97. Phizzee

    4 hours ago

    Removed

    It ain’t over yet until the Kamelarse is President.Just my opinion but

    I would like to know why a Mod considered my opinion to be removed. I would also like to add that this Mod be removed.

    1. “I would like to know why a Mod considered my opinion to be removed. “
      You have previous? Just saying.

  101. Stephen L. Miller
    Trump’s loss overshadows a catastrophic election for the Democrats
    6 November 2020, 3:23pm

    ​Joe Biden looks to be on his way to the White House. There will be recounts, and legal challenges and tweets, oh the tweets. Biden’s lead appears insurmountable. But the Democrats can’t be too happy.

    Trump’s loss and his behaviour are going to overshadow what is one of the more catastrophic performances for their party in modern history. Voters appear to have rejected Donald Trump the person. More importantly, they have rejected much of the Democratic platform as well.

    Pollsters predicted that the Democrats would recapture the Senate, handing their far-left agenda on a silver White House platter for a President Joe Biden to sign off. That did not happen. Several of the GOP candidates who were facing danger to reelection ran ahead of the President in their states. Susan Collins, who was not predicted to win her race by a single poll, is returning to Congress. The GOP will most likely face two run-off races in Georgia but both are favourable to them without Trump at the top of the ticket. The Georgia electorate is more inclined to vote for a divided federal government to keep a far-left agenda of court packing, abolishing the filibuster and a Green New Deal in check. Democrats burned through hundreds of millions of dollars and have only John Hickenlooper in Colorado to show for it.

    ​Then there are the massive losses in the House. Nancy Pelosi said before Tuesday that she expected House gains in several races and to expand her majority. Democrats failed to unseat a single incumbent Republican, while losing several seats in the process. At the time of writing, Republicans have added 10 seats with the final total slimming down the Democratic majority. That would leave the GOP primed to capture five seats heading into 2022, the Democrats playing defence in several states and Nancy Pelosi fighting to keep her speakership amid an AOC-led House revolt.

    ​At the state level, Democrats faired no better, failing to capture a single state legislative chamber. Republicans flipped the New Hampshire Senate and House, and the Alaska state House. Republican Greg Gianforte also captured the Montana governorship.

    Joe Biden will enter the Oval Office perhaps the weakest Democratic president since 1884, with only one House of Congress.

    Is it any wonder that voters seem dubious about the Democratic party? Pelosi’s pre-election Covid relief hardball tactics will surely come under intense scrutiny. She seemed to think the country would pin the entire failure on Trump and ignoring her salon sessions and her fridge stocked with $13 pints of ice cream.

    ​Trump’s gains within minority communities, especially Hispanics in Texas, threaten an entire coalition the Democrats have spent years decades developing. Trump and the Republicans also made historic gains with African Americans and even the Muslim community, carrying 35 per cent of the vote according to AP’s VoteCast survey.

    ​As the weeks and months pass, Democrats will agonise over their collapse and ask why it happened. The main reason for the Democratic failure to regain the Senate is that their platform tilted toward the far left and away from legislative reality. Court packing was willed into the national spotlight by Democratic activists, as was abolishing police departments. Rep. Abigail Spanberger of Virginia ​lamented on a conference call Wednesday that defunding the police almost cost her the race. The fact that Joe Biden worked to either avoid answering these questions or distance himself from them seems to have paid off in ways that embracing them did not for members of his party.

    ​Trump might be vanquished, but there are far more questions facing the direction of the Democratic party as they face a legislative agenda that’s already DOA in Mitch McConnell’s Senate. There will have to be a serious reckoning on whether or not to double down on the intersectional social justice ambitions of the young activist base, or distance themselves from a media obsessed with promoting them and the their fringe ideas. Can a 77-year-old President Biden rein those aspects of the party in?

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/trump-s-loss-overshadow-a-catastrophic-election-for-the-democrats

    2. Trump’s loss and his behaviour are going to overshadow what is one of the more catastrophic performances for their party in modern history. Voters appear to have rejected Donald Trump the person. More importantly, they have rejected much of the Democratic platform as well.

      If this statement in the article was correct then turnout figures would be low, there has been reported instances of nearly 90% turnout. This does not make sense.

      1. Trump has polarised opinion in a way that I doubt that any President has before, even Lincoln during the civil war.

        He arrived at a point when (cliché, cliché) America was moving into the fourth Industrial revolution. He brought jobs back, he reduced foreign wars, he attacked many things that the average “middle” American also doubted/challenged.

        He stopped the Clinton/Obama liberal bandwagon in its tracks and the MSM and the globalists hated him for it.

  103. Years ago all sorts of collusion and propaganda was enabled to go unrestrained. The Nazis deceived several generations with their mad agenda and barefaced lies.

    Nowadays nothing whatever can be hidden. Every vicarious or opportunist propaganda will be examined and scrutinised by countless millions. The crooks like Biden can no longer hide their agendas and corruption from public scrutiny. Are these politicians really so thick as to wilfully ignore this fact or that their followers are so blinkered and ignorant?

    1. Well the U.K. government and their pseudo scientists have done a pretty good job so far. The problem we have now is what to do about it? Other than email strongly worded missives to our MP (Alf and I have emailed separately again today) … what we need is for all the MPs to create merry bl..dy hell in the HoC on Monday about the lying bar stewards and their figures. But will they? I think we all know the answer to that.

      1. I believe Trump has covered all the angles. The man is a genius. He was gifted a million dollars by his father and made it into 4 billion dollars. He is certainly no fool.

        1. “a smarl loan of a millyern darllars” is now a favourite saying in our family!

          Hats off to him if he did manage to circumvent the ballot boxes full of fake votes. But if the voting machines are capable of producing an extra 6000 votes for the Democrats as was reported in a previous election, how could that be proved?

    3. Fake news is king. It is a politician’s best friend. The Russians did it, follow the science. They’re all at it.

      1. We know that both the US and the UK governments plant stories in the supposedly independent mainstream media.
        Can’t remember the name of the guy who spilled the beans in the US, but if you read the Daily Mail regularly, the fake stories are usually pretty easy to spot, and they appear in the run up to yet more legislation that nobody ever voted on.

    4. One possible explanation is that they know the extent to which the people are already lied to and swallow the lies.
      One example would be the whole Britain in the EU saga, which was a political union right from the start with common borders, currency, foreign policy and defence baked in, even as Heath was assuring the British people that it was only a Common Market.

      2. But the EU/EEC were completely open about it. Why did nobody pay attention to what they were saying – “Ever closer union”, for example.

        1. There was no Internet and those who could have shouted the intention to the heavens were silent (and complicit in the deception).

          2. What bit of “no Internet” for the plebs can’t you understand? Was it all over the TV, the newspapers?

          5. You are absolutely correct. It is easy to forget nowadays the extent to which a small handful of organisations controlled the news in the last few decades before the internet got going.

          6. I saw it in newspapers; quoted often as the introduction to the Treaty of Rome. reported often from important (sic) voices in Europe. It was no secret – just people didn’t want to hear.

          7. Did they spell it out for those of us (and I’m chiefly talking about myself here) who were not gripped by politics? I remember Heath re-assuring us it was only a trading arrangement and there would be no loss of sovereignty. As far as I knew the Treaty of Rome was never dissected in the papers and the implications spelled out. Abroad it was quite openly paraded (only at the time I didn’t read the foreign press). Here, not so much.

        2. I find these pantomime villains are usually perfectly open about their intentions. Nobody ever believes them! We Cassandras tend to end up getting ridiculed for trying to draw people’s attention to what is hiding in plain sight.

          I’m thinking of
          – Islam
          – the Russians under Kruschev
          – the Chinese
          – the globalist cabal under George Soros.

    5. Blimey I agree, nothing can be hidden. The irony is that this was absolutely Trump’s undoing, but you have swallowed Trump’s propaganda so completely that you haven’t realised the irony of your comment.

    6. I am amazed at the number of commentators on forums such as this who seem to accept a Biden victory when there has been so many allegations made as to illegal activities. Perhaps their hatred of Trump overrides everything, we have seen the remainers exhibit similar behaviour with Brexit.
      Now I am the first to admit that I have no clue if the allegation that Republican observers were not permitted to observe the counting of postal/absentee papers or if the video of a counter filling in a ballot paper and then stamping it as “received” is genuine. If I was an American I would be interested if the proportion of postal ballot papers counted in these last few Democratic run states, some as high as 89% in favour of Biden, was in line with other already declared Democratic states. I would also like an investigation as to the reports that UPS supervisors were falsifying ballot paper dates before sending them on to the counting centres. To some people it appears that democracy is OK if it goes to your preferred candidate and the danger of becoming a banana republic is not of any consequence.
      If Biden has won fair and square good luck to him, I hope he does his country proud. If it turns out that foul play has been undertaken, I hope all those are caught, thrown in a cell for many a long year.

      1. It’s reality.

        Unless Trump can prove fraud on a significant scale, he’s lost.

        Acceptance? Yes.
        Approval? No,.

        1. I think the allegations should be investigated and if no proof found I agree he has lost. I would think the same for any election process no matter where.

          1. I don’t think it will happen, but I would like to see an in-depth investigation to put it to rest once and for all.

          2. As in-depth as the investigation after Thanet?
            It hasn’t been put to rest in the UK, and that has worrying implications for the whole democratic process. Same in the US. People have to be able to trust that the vote won’t be rigged if they vote the “wrong” way.

      2. “…I hope all those are caught, thrown in a cell for many a long year”, as they would be under US law, which is yet another reason the claims of fraud are nothing more than claims made by a bad loser. Think about it, would you risk jail time to see your choice of President elected?

        1. claims made by a bad loser
          Glad to see you have confidence in what has happened.
          And yes, they would “risk” jail time because such people do not consider the possibility of being caught. It has been ever so, the 1972 Watergate break in for example. Never underestimate the arrogance of a politician.

          1. I have confidence that Biden has won. Any fraud will, as always, be tiny compared to the overall numbers. I also note that three days after the election Trump has failed to provide any actual evidence for his various claims.

  104. Just to be different, politicians doing the right thing.

    Supermarket chain whole foods, an Amazon subsidiary send an email to employees banning them from wearing poppies
    The conservative leader quickly called for a boycott of whole foods.
    Now parliament have unanimously passed a motion condemning the company. Even the almost communists voted for the motion.

    Now witness pretendy PM talking his idea up.

          1. A quick google shows that they have been available since 2010, and are most commonly associated with the remembrance of black, African, and Caribbean contributions to the war effort. Why they should need their own poppy is beyond me.

  107. Amusing how Tresa is cross with Boros……….

    Likely because she can’t go on her US tour getting £100,000 a go from you know who.

        1. She has a lot of American Trump fans over on Breitbart.
          As I learnt to my cost. 23 downvotes is still a record for one of my replies to her.

          Like ogga, she offers no solutions.

          2. Don’t need to be old to enjoy good music PT.
            Like old comedy, Youtube is a refuge from the MSM.

          5. Hello Thayaric
            Hope all is well.
            What’s your take on bazillions of money being printed to pay for furlough and the world’s seeming desire to keep interest rates low?

          6. It’s really not a problem, it’s spreadsheet money created at the stroke of a few keys and it can be destroyed just as easily if and only if it causes a problem such as an inflationary event.

            Money is printed every day. Every day banks lend money they haven’t got by creating a deposit matching a loan amount in a loan agreement. Every single penny the national government spends is ‘printed’. It has been this way for 50 years since Nixon ended Bretton-Woods.

            Low interest rates are simply to encourage lending because without debt there’s no money creation and without money creation there can’t be growth. Trouble is many of us have borrowed more than we can already. Companies don’t borrow due to uncertainty about our economy and the global economic prospects.

            This is all going to go on and on. The stats are going to look forever worse. Yet just like Japan we’ll simply carry on ignoring the stats and see there’s no real issue. The real issue is the fiscal system. It hammers the productive, it encourages rentseeking, and it creates far too much inequality.

          7. My concern is (obviously!) my own money. I note that there was very little inflation after the 2008 money printing spree. How did they manage to suppress that? And will they pull off the same trick now?

            What do you mean by “the real issue is the fiscal system?”

          8. it’s well known that the more money you print the less your money is worth, or so it seems. This is an age old economic theory known as the quantity of money theory. It somewhat worked under the gold standard and classical economists believe it works now despite the fact that empirical evidence shows it to be a crock of horse manure.
            The entire monetary system functions in a completely different manner to the way you are led to believe.
            The common belief is that we provide the government with funds through taxation, which it then overspends and borrows even more money from us to cover that spending. The government has no money of its own. It’s a very false belief.
            In actual fact the government creates money and spends it into the economy in a variety of ways i.e. public sector wages, welfare pensions and benefits, buying goods and services from the private sector. To do so it simply orders the BoE to credit the accounts of the commercial banks it needs to to make those transactions happen.
            Taxing and borrowing come well after the spending.
            We tax to ensure everyone needs pounds to pay taxes. This makes goods available for pounds, labour available for pounds, it gives the currency domestic demand.
            We also tax to remove purchasing power or else as a whole we’d have too much money, the economy would start selling out quickly and suppliers wouldn’t keep up and prices would rise as buyers outbid each other for the scarce resources available.
            Lastly we tax to change behaviour which is why my cigs are twelve quid for 20, and petrol is expensive and we get taxed just for getting on a plane.
            Alongside this government money creation, commercial banks do the same thing. They create every penny they loan out. Debt is actually how money gets created in the economy as a whole.
            There’s a strong misunderstanding amongst neoliberal economists about inflation. They are too wedded to Friedman and his inflation is always a monetary phenomenom, it isn’t. That’s been proven over and over again.
            Ok the fiscal system. 85% or thereabouts of revenues comes from the productive economy and only 15% from the unproductive, consequently incentives exist to be a rentseeker rather than a worker/producer/innovator. Georgists have understood this for 140 years. If you want a consumerist society then inequality must be low or capital accumulation stops consumption. Under neoliberalism that’s where we are. We have a high cost of living coupled with a low wage in comparison, as for forty years productivity has become divorced from wage growth due to weaker collective bargaining and government interference. Many people can’t consume, they don’t have disposable income. Austerity has only made this worse which is why we only broke 2% growth in 2 years of the past ten, and they were a big election year and the previous year when austerity was put on hold due to the forthcoming election. Our historical usual growth rate is over 3%. Meanwhile over the same period all the investment that should have gone into jobs and innovation has largely found its way into land which is why houses have increased in value more than 5 times faster than wages have increased.
            Want the answer?
            Fancy a little reading?
            http://www.henrygeorge.org/pcontents.htm

          9. So the answer to my question is, that after having printed shedloads of money, they will raise taxes to stamp down on inflation by reducing people’s buying power?
            (People consume a lot more these days, compared with what they did a hundred years ago)
            But all that extra money must go somewhere (or can they slowly pull it back, and do they ever do that?), so where will it go?

            They have surely more or less exhausted the endless house/land price rises in Britain (?)
            Will the stock market absorb a lot of it, with another long run of rising?
            Or have I completely misunderstood how it works?

            (I get the impression that there is more than one view on this, however, I’m not educated enough in economics to know what the other views are.)

          10. No.

            Tories may well raise taxes to recoup money, as after all that is what they tend to do but there isn’t an economic necessity to do so unless the economy is in overdrive. Well that ain’t a problem is it. Growth rates are of the order of 1.3% for the last few years, unemployment is high, underemployment is high. The money supply has grown by well north of 1 trillion and yet there’s been very little inflation and what there was came from currency effects on imported goods.

            A hundred years ago we weren’t a consumption economy we were mercantilist.

            Who knows where all that extra money ends up. That depends on what people spend it on or invest it on. Sadly much of it ends up in the housing market because it’s so much easier to make money holding land than it is holding shares because of the way we hammer productive activities.

            These days it’s mostly pension funds and hedge funds that play the stock market. Most older investors have chosen the safer BTL landlord route.

            House prices will keep going up. Government will not allow house prices to drop significantly, they’d have to bail out the banks again.

          11. People are already buying 50% or 40% of a property round where we live. I don’t see how they can sustain further rises. Further rises will also give the government more excuse to relieve us of “windfall” inheritance.
            Thank you for the information!

          12. intergenerational mortgages?

            All my life I’ve been told don’t worry about the old robbing you, you’ll inherit it all anyway.

            Yes right. I’m 50, my parents had me in their late twenties. I would expect them to die around 90-95 which means an inheritance for me eventually sometime around 65 to 70. That’s a bit late to be thinking of buying my first property and maybe starting a family. My wife got lucky (?) as her father died when she was 3 years old and her mother passed when she was 30, so she did get an inheritance and bought this flat with it but it’s all in her name only and for the past few years our relationship has been awful. Im likely to find myself homeless again soon, 50+ years old, earning 200 a week, no car, no home, and having to go on universal credit and rely on crowdfunding for a deposit and 2 months rent to be off the streets. Trouble is once on that bloody system you live like you don’t have a job. You exist, you don’t live! Get a payrise. Well that’s coming off your UC. A bonus? That’s coming off your UC too. You can’t earn a penny without it affecting benefits. Quite the incentive to give up work and knock out coke instead.

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