755 thoughts on “Monday 21 October: Every new parliamentary ruse to delay Brexit only fosters division and imperils our democracy”

  1. Ok, Gentlefolk at 04:45, that’s my contribution for the next few hours. Enjoy your workaday week – Erection Rescinded allowing – and return to your favourite website with that ironic grin on your face. I’m now off to bed – hope I can sleep!

  2. Queen has hard time telling apart Vladimir Putin and Andrew Marr- ‘Not that chap from BBC’. Sun, Oct 20, 2019.

    QUEEN ELIZABETH II has a hard time telling apart BBC presenter Andrew Marr and Russian President Vladimir Putin, the veteran journalist revealed.

    Morning everyone. I’m surprised at Her Majesty’s difficulties. One is a frontman for an antidemocratic, crypto-fascist political entity and the other is the President of Russia!

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/royal/1193285/queen-news-queen-elizabeth-ii-vladimir-putin-andrew-marr-royal-news-royal-family-latest

  3. Good morning, all. A very happy Trafalgar Day.

    Let us hope Johnson turns a blind eye to the remainiacs.

      1. When I was young, the Royal Navy would parade in Trafalgar Square.

        I expect that has been stopped now – it might incite people….

        1. A long time ago I suggested the 4th plinth in Trafalgar Square should be given over to the RN so a mast could be erected on it and Nelson’s famous signal flown from it: “England Expects this day that every man will do his duty”.
          (I can imagine PC loving heads exploding at the very thought of it)

    2. Good morning, Bill. Thanks for the reminder. And I almost forgot to remind all NoTTLers that today is just 10 days away from Brexit – we hope!

  4. SIR – It is clear that the country is not behind the Prime Minister, due to his sheer incompetence and attempts to bulldoze his ideas through Parliament.

    It is on this basis, that, regrettably, I feel that the only solution is to hold a second referendum. This would either reinforce the original result or abandon the whole idea. Whatever the choice, at least the air would be cleared.

    H G Carruthers
    Scarborough, North Yorkshire

    Whatever the choice, at least the air would be cleared.
    No, it most definitely would not. If it were a straight in/out choice again, and Leave were to win, there would be absolutely no change to the current situation. Remainers would still not accept the result. If Remain were to win, Leavers would argue that, because the result of the first referendum had not been implemented, the result of the second referendum should be null and void. In any event, the call for Brexit would not go away. The wounds of this whole fiasco would last for years.

    2. HG Carruthers is being deceitful.

      Last night’s TV news starred Sir Kier Starmer explaining the second referendum.

      The question would be “Do you want to Remain in the EU, or do you want to Leave under Boris’ deal?”

      As Boris’ deal is BRINO, that means there is no true Leave option on the ballot paper.

      1. We were told by all sides of the debate including PM Cameron “this is your decision, the Government will implement what you decide.” It was made clear how utterly important this decision was, it was ‘once in a generation.’

        To call for a second referendum before the first has been implemented is an affront to democracy. If we did have one, it should be a decision on how we leave (Boris Deal/No Deal), not whether or not we leave. That matter has already been decided. But to hear politicians say that we should be offered the Hobson’s choice of Revoke/BRINO is utterly shameful. How on earth did we come to this?

  6. We have to face the fact that our Parliament is completely under the control of the EU, all these unprecedented manoeuvres prove that, there won’t be any change until we have an election if the people have the will and are smart enough to vote them all out, that means moving away from tribal liblabcon voting.

    1. And the next election will bring forth the same ghastly people representing the same ghastly parties.

      1. But at least we now know who they are and the lengths they will go to keep us locked under EU control and prevent democracy.

          1. I don’t think so, it is more the middle class liberal elite types that have lost their marbles and become comfortably numb to the benefits of freedom democracy

          3. I think they can now afford very expensive bathrooms – perhaps now ‘the great washed up’

  7. Morning all

    SIR – Most people want Parliament to get Brexit done as soon as possible. Our hopes have been raised high and then dashed.

    With every new ruse that MPs devise to delay Brexit, more ordinary people despair of politics altogether. Our divisions get angrier and nastier by the week. Many feel that our democracy is in grave danger. How can we get politicians to listen to us?

    Professor Richard Bauckham
    Cambridge

    1. SIR – This country has hitherto gained worldwide respect for its democracy and tolerance. However, the spectacle of some of our MPs, including Andrea Leadsom, Michael Gove and Jacob Rees-Mogg (as well as his son), having to be escorted by police on Saturday was quite despicable.

      Herbert Potts
      Stockport, Cheshire

      SIR – The Government has complied with Section 1 of the Withdrawal Act (No 2). It has sought the House of Commons’ approval for its agreement with the EU. The only statutory precondition is that Parliament be informed of the concluded agreement.

      The Government motion could hardly be simpler. Therefore, it should not be susceptible to amendment at all, let alone an amendment such as Sir Oliver Letwin’s, which added a precondition (passing “implementing legislation”) that the law does not require. The amendment selected by the Speaker and passed by the House of Commons on Saturday was not an amendment; it completely changed the meaning and nature of the motion.

      Not only is this an astonishing constitutional innovation, but there is a pattern here. Every time it looks like Brexit will be delivered, Parliament – with the collaboration of the Speaker – changes the rules. The pretexts are specious. The object is to frustrate Brexit. Do they have any idea of the harm they are doing to public trust in our institutions?

      His Honour Charles Wide QC
      Peterborough, Cambridgeshire

      1. They don’t care, Your Honour. If Swinesdottir can openly admit that leaving the EU would be bad for her family and she isn’t about to let it happen, democracy has no hope at all.

    2. I suspect the Monarchy is also in danger.
      The powers it supposedly holds in reserve have turned out to be a sham.
      And as for the H&M debacle ….

    3. “With every new ruse that MPs devise to delay Brexit…”

      Listen, Professor First Letter, may I point out sumfink? Surely a chap of your eminence (Biblical Scholar and Theologian *) would have realised by now that the Remianiacs, and particularly that disgusting little runt who occupies the big wooden chair in the House of Clowns, are out to reverse the result of the referendum and not merely to delay it? Where have you been these past few years?

      ‘Morning, Epi.

      * richardbacukham.co.uk

  8. SIR – Parliament is in contempt of the electorate. A general election is urgently required.

    Athol Forsyth
    Wroxham, Norfolk

    1. Some candidates who listen to the electorate are required first.
      Why vote for “More of the same”.?

      2. Many politicians are adept at pretending that they are listening and then act against the electorate’s best interest. We need politicians who will work for the electorate but with so many politicians being first and foremost very capable liars, how do we decide? Trial and error on a five year cycle is not a very efficient method. Where do we go from here?

        1. Mr Major (remember him?) wants referendums every three years.

          It can easily be adapted to whether you consider your MP is doing a good job.

          1. janetjH, do you think that the immoral shower currently in the HoC will enact legislation that will force them to act with truth and decency? Breaking the circle of deceit will not be easy and I certainly cannot see a solution other than electing Farage’s people and give them a go. That could work but then again it could be an out of the pan and into the fire scenario.

          2. UKIP supports the right of recall for MPs who are not doing their jobs or properly representing their constituents.

      3. Morning RP,
        You mean that the electorate would vote for more of the same as in the same governing parties ?that is bloody amazing.
        They have had years of getting us to where we are as a nation using the same voting pattern.

  9. Morning again

    SIR – The huge sums spent on locum hospital doctors are scandalous (Letters, October 17), but the blame rests upon the shift system imposed by the European Working Time Directive.

    There are too few doctors to fill the rotas. Furthermore, training of juniors has been seriously undermined. Lastly, the quality of care has been compromised because patients are often seen by doctors who know nothing about them and do not routinely work with the consultant responsible for their treatment.

    David Nunn
    West Malling, Kent

    1. The working time directive though is not really restrictive, You can work up to 12 hours in a day(13 if you include a 1 hour lunch break and you can work up to 48 hours in a week although this can be averaged over 17 weeks. You have to have an 11 hour break between shifts

  11. SIR – As a former British colony, the Cook Islands in the South Pacific are among the countries that drive on the left (Letters, October 17), and we have no plans to change. This also gives us the advantage of being able to buy nearly new cars, regularly disposed of from “leftie” Japan at very reasonable prices.

    Dr Erica Anderson
    Rarotonga, Cook Islands

  12. Well there should be another vote in the commons today although Bercow my try to find an excuse to block it particularly as iy sounds as if Boris may now have just about got enough MP’s to vote it through

    1. As a leaver I don’t really want Boris’s hand cuff deal to go through, it isn’t leaving and will not solve anything.

      1. Neither do I.
        However, is there a way out? Peter Bone MP procured an assurance from Johnson that the government will walk away from the EU at the end of next year and go to WTO terms if trade deal talks fail. Now, an assurance from a philanderer of the likes of Johnson is not something I would put great store by but it is recorded in Hansard for posterity. Likewise Johnson’s pledge to Owen Paterson re our fisheries.
        Of course, the trade talks depend very much upon what Johnson’s real motives are: is he merely May v2.0 and likely to accept anything the EU demands or will he work for the UK?
        The Remainers appear worried about this walk away clause and will of course try and tie Johnson’s hands in negotiations. How they will do that without obtaining extension after extension, taking over Parliament with the assistance of the Speaker or winning a GE remains to be seen.

        1. The big risk with a GE is that unless the Brexit party holds the balance of power with a healthy number of seats or the Conservatives get their act together and replace remainers with leavers, the fixed term parliament act will give five more years of a remain majority to wreck any and all attempts to get completely clear of the EU.

        2. It’s the smug looks on Barnier’s, along with Juncker’s, Verhofstwat’s et al faces, that leads me to believe we’re handing over the keys to the kingdom.

        3. Korky (good morning, btw) the current political shenanigans put me in mind of those comedy cartoons where the mouse bamboozles the cat by erecting an Acme Inc./Heath Robinson-type gizmo where a marble is dropped on to a channelled plank, runs down to the plank’s edge and falls into a net tied to a lever which is lifted to move a paddle which fires a projectile at another object, etc. (you get the picture). The cat’s jaw drops as his eyes follow the whole system as it unfolds, finally resulting in a 10 ton weight falling directly on his head and flattening him.

          I feel like the cat and just hope and pray that the weight, when October the 31st arrives, will fall on Remainers’ heads and not on other Leavers’ (including mine) heads.

      2. I agree with you, B3; it is not the Brexit I voted for, either. But the longer this charade continues, the risk of losing Brexit altogether becomes greater as every day passes.

        2. That is what they intend; they will wear us down until we surrender and accept capitulation to “get Brexit over the line”, only it won’t be Brexit at all, it will be BRINO. We need to hold our nerve and run the clock down.

    2. BJ,
      What benefit would that be to these Isles ?
      I see none, then some.
      Total severance = England / GB in casual mode = NO TIES.

  14. WE need very significant reform of our electoral system. We need the changes to our constituencies implemented. We need to have a PR form of voting
    MP’s that defect or get thrown out of thy party have to immediate stand down and face a by election
    Referendum results have to be binding on all MP’s and they have to implement that decision. Manifestos should have key items in them legally binding

    A new disciplinary system is need to ensure good behaviour by our MP’s . Any MP that commits an offence carrying a prison sentence of 3 months or more becomes immediately dismissed from office (Unless an appeal is launched)

    1. BJ,
      I take it this will be appertaining to the NEW 650 politico’s
      taking up positions in the NEW parties ?

      1. Nigel tells us that The Brexit Party has 650 candidates ready to stand in every single Constituency. Bring it on!

        1. Morning RC,
          The “nige” would condone yet another extension, the group I trust, him I don’t.

          2. Morning D,
            No, that is the in-house self confessed down voter the old clog,
            I do believe ogga is his only customer.

    2. Bill, I would remind you of Art 101 of the Withdrawal Agreement which says that no employee of the EU will ever be prosecuted in Britain.

      For anything!

        1. It’s the EU, Bill. It’s whatever that body and its puppet the ECJ decide it covers.

      2. Just heard Katya Adler on Radio 4 commenting that when the EU Commission received Boris’s two letters they accepted the unsigned one and ignored the signed covering letter.
        Absolutely typical of their cavalier ways.
        EDIT: So any of us can write to them (we have the address) and they will accept it?

    1. And how is the weather in your neck of the woods, Delboy36? (LoL.) Here’s a tip: drink a little wine from time to time. More fun that being “dry” and it might make you a little less dull.

      PS – Before you report me to the mods, please note that it is my warped sense of humour and not intended to offend.

  16. Good morning from the Saxon daughter of Alfred of Wessex
    with long bow and cleaned axe.

    I wonder what politics will deliver today and what trickery and
    skulduggery the remainer party of the Queens opposition with
    It’s little helpers. What a web they weave with their undemocratic
    treachery. Everyone is sick to the back teeth of Brèxit and
    want the thing done.

      1. There are those who want the lemmings to have another
        referendum and fix everything to make that happen.

        Those whose lives are not dominated by daily politics
        ( the majority ) just scream when the news rattles away
        about ” more Brèxit talks ” ! It needs to move on
        instead of being a hamster on a wheel .

        1. I think the lemmings should pause in their rush otherwise they’ll head over Boris Cliff..

          1. We could always have the totalitarian dictatorship
            of the hard left Marx supporting friend of Hamas
            and his best friend the IRA supporter and their
            wonderful idyll. It’s a choice between a shotgun and
            Cyanide pill. Hopefully the fools will realise that the
            public want Boris Johnson to get on with it.
            Brèxit was always a start of a long road with many
            changes but we haven’t even started the journey after
            3 years and there are those who will do all they can
            to remove our wheels . We will leave by 31/ 10 / 19.

          3. If we don’t leave on the 31/ 10 / 19 then it’s
            all over for Brèxit, it’ll be stopped in its entirety,
            utterly which is what the remainers want and they
            wont stop. Looking for perfection will kill the Brèxit
            all together, we can change and adapt once on the move
            but not if the others kill Brèxit first .

          5. Germany is heading for recession, in fact the entire
            EU is on track for that to happen. They don’t hold
            any cards. It’s a choice between Boris Johnson
            or Jeremy Corbyn and Jeremy Corbyn wants to stop
            Brèxit and will.

      1. Morning Silver Back Ape old friend 🙂

        No one will be happy entirely, everyone is to divided and
        perfection cannot exist, especially with everyone wanting their
        slice of cake. Sometimes one must squeeze through a little
        gap in a door. The remain bunch don’t stop until they
        have their way, as well as Labour saying they will stop
        Brèxit and hope for an alliance with the SNP, Lib Dems etc
        there are Blair, Grieve, Mandelson, Cable etc in Europe
        doing all they can to stop Brèxit. We need to shoot their fox.

        1. Morning A,
          I do look upon the lab/lib/con as a pro eu coalition party, talking happiness after the coming NEC elections shortly I do believe
          UKIP will be a party of happiness and then will once again be
          in forward motion.
          There have been years of keeping UKIP suppressed to my mind
          after in the past they showed their true potential.

          1. In view of the internecine strife that appears to be the default mode for the party, I for one will be returning to floating voter. It’s a great disappointment that UKIP has failed so dismally, as at one time I had felt they might have been able to make a difference in British politics. Your loyalty and optimism in the party is touching.

          2. Morning C,
            I can assure I am not in the touching game, why has UKIP always
            had a problem after it starts to have a successful run, always.
            It MUST be suppressed.

            UKIP gave the country the referendum the major governance parties ie lab/lib/con pro eu coalition are trying to reverse it.

            As with now an orchestrated anti membership move by members of the UKIP parties NEC is operating & IMO instigated by “nige” followers, this is NOT an anti brexit group post, being that I am pro brexit group, but after the farage rant did show he had no integrity, anti farage.
            It is my belief that after the NEC elections shortly, the party will once again be on the rise, it has shown its potential before and will do again.
            Take nothing on the “appears to be basis” dig out true facts.

  17. Good morning from here to all of you there .

    Dull dry chilly October day . Low cloud , fresh breeze..birds are quiet , nothing feeding yet on the feeders.

    Well, that was the week that was.. and I wonder what we will hear this week.

    The Brexit narrative changes every five minutes .

    I see that the whiney Sussexs are at it again .. They are whinging about their pathetic woes whilst visiting a very poor disadvantaged continent .

    What on earth happened to happy jovial fun Harry we once thought we knew . He needs to go and visit his grandmother , cousins and brother and sister in law to talk about the fun times he had with his huge extended family and friends .

    He is being dragged down by the Markle bint, who I suspect has fallen out with everyone .. and is controlling every aspect of his life!

    2. South Africa has been independent for nearly sixty years.
      Should we be asking why it still contains townships where rape and murder are every day occurrences?
      Morning, Belle.

      1. Morning Anne

        Yes indeed .. the stabby stabby violence is frightening .. Did you know though that some of the townships support some very luxurious properties and African lifestyles … very wealthy Africans live amongst squalor and poverty .. and sadly there are many many European poor who live in shanty towns .. in even more squalid conditions than Africans .. it is all so shocking ..

        Black wealthy Africans don’t contribute to charities .. they will cruise around in their very fancy statement cars as if they are blinged up kings and queens .. No one seems to care about each other .. Indifference is an absolute killer .

        3. Wonder where all the money from diamonds, gold, wine and tourism has gone?
          Obviously not spent on the welfare of SA’s poorer citizens.

    3. Morning Belle. She’s manoeuvring him into moving to the States where she can exhibit him as a Trophy Husband!

      1. I fear you are right… then he will become so mentally ill, when he succumbs to to her old lifestyle .. and perhaps he might sniff and snort .. He has a wilful side to his nature .. hence half black baby and actress wife !

    4. Well, in Meghan’s defence, at least she calls him “H”. If this is short for “Henry” and not “Harry”, that is a (single) point in her favour.

      PS – On reflection, they called their son Harrison, so I may well be wrong!

    5. She thought that we should revere her because she has become a princess, trouble is, that she acts like a z list seleb. Gobbing off about the troubles of the world is not royal territory, neither is there much milage in complaining about life in a silk cocoon. Managing the royal budget and organising nannies must be just sooo difficult. A life abroad will be so much better for them, as many have suggested, a farm in Africa should fit the bill.

      3. Insulting the President of the United States by missing the State Banquet prepared for him on the grounds of being a new mother, then within days attending Royal Ascot with HM The Queen and minus Archie, is what finally destroyed my view of “giving her the benefit of the doubt”.

        1. I fear, Elsie, that you are too prone to give flawed people “the benefit of the doubt”. Today’s PTB and slebs should have convinced you by now that experience does not bear out the validity of that view 🙂

    6. I am appalled that the Duke of this county has turned into a simpering,whimpering snowflake. If turning out for the under-privileged and pressing the flesh is too demanding then it’s time to bugger off and find a job. Public life is clearly not for him or his sleb missus. From hero to zero in such a short time…enough, be gone!

      ‘Morning, Belle.

      1. Really pathetic aren’t they ..

        Our poor Queen and Philip, what on earth must they think, and of course all the other European Royals as well.

        What ever she has done , she is demolishing the guy .. and ridiculing Royalty .

        I wonder what she was like with her first husband ?

          1. I think “H” is the third. Didn’t she change her religion from Christian to Jewish, then back to Evangelical, then to Anglican (possibly not in that exact order) when she married H?

      2. I saw them whinging on when visiting a friend who had “Loose Women” on the TV in the background. I averred that Harry had married his mother – somebody who wanted all the perks but not the often onerous responsibilities and duties that go with them. Someone else remarked that it put them in mind of the Duke of Windsor. Nobody around the lunch table had any sympathy for the dysfunctional lot.

  19. Good morning, Gentlefolk. A template – should your bank annoy you!

    Seniors Banking
    Shewn below, is an actual letter that was sent to a bank by an 86 year old woman.
    The bank manager thought it amusing enough to have it published in the Times.

    Dear Sir:
    I am writing to thank you for bouncing my cheque with which I endeavoured to pay my plumber last month.
    By my calculations, three nanoseconds must have elapsed between his presenting the cheque and the arrival in my account of the funds needed to honour it. I refer, of course, to the automatic monthly deposit of my entire pension, an arrangement which, I admit, has been in place for only eight years.

    You are to be commended for seizing that brief window of opportunity, and also for debiting my account £30 by way of penalty for the inconvenience caused to your bank.

    My thankfulness springs from the manner in which this incident has caused me to rethink my errant financial ways. I noticed that whereas I personally answer
    your telephone calls and letters, — when I try to contact you, I am confronted by the impersonal, overcharging, pre-recorded, faceless entity which your bank has become.

    From now on, I, like you, choose only to deal with a flesh-and-blood person. My mortgage and loan repayments will therefore and hereafter no longer be
    automatic, but will arrive at your bank, by cheque, addressed personally and confidentially to an employee at your bank whom you must nominate.

    Be aware that it is an OFFENSE under the Postal Act for any other person to open such an envelope.

    Please find attached an Application Contact which I require your chosen employee to complete.

    I am sorry it runs to eight pages, but in order that I know as much about him or her as your bank knows about me, there is no alternative.

    Please note that all copies of his or her medical history must be countersigned by a Notary Public figure, and the mandatory details of his/her financial
    situation (income, debts, assets and liabilities) must be accompanied by documented proof.

    In due course, at MY convenience, I will issue your employee with a PIN number which he/she must quote in dealings with me.

    I regret that it cannot be shorter than 28 digits but, again, I have modelled it on the number of button presses required of me to access my account balance
    on your phone bank service.

    As they say, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Let me level the playing field even further. When you call me, press buttons as follows:

    IMMEDIATELY AFTER DIALLING, PRESS THE STAR (*) BUTTON FOR ENGLISH

    #1. To make an appointment to see me
    #2. To query a missing payment.
    #3. To transfer the call to my living room in case I am there.
    #4 To transfer the call to my bedroom in case I am sleeping.
    #5. To transfer the call to my toilet in case I am attending to nature.
    #6. To transfer the call to my mobile phone if I am not at home.
    #7. To leave a message on my computer, a password to access my computer is required.

    Password will be communicated to you at a later date to that Authorized Contact mentioned earlier.
    #8. To return to the main menu and to listen to options 1 to7
    #9. To make a general complaint or inquiry.

    The contact will then be put on hold, pending the attention of my automated answering service.

    While this may, on occasion, involve a lengthy wait, uplifting music will play for the duration of the call.

    Regrettably, but again following your example, I must also levy an establishment fee to cover the setting up of this new arrangement.

    May I wish you a happy, if ever so slightly less prosperous New Year?

    Your Humble Client

    And remember: Don’t make old people mad. We don’t like being old in the first place, so it doesn’t take much to piss us off.

  20. This self confessed down voter, clogie ( appertaining seemingly only to ogga) is now quoting the guardian, how sad is that.
    He is most definitely a caution.

  21. This Parliament is no more . It has ceased to be, bereft of life, It rests in peace, It has kicked the bucket, hopped the twig, bit the dust, snuffed it, breathed its last, It is a stiff

  23. Boris Johnson is set for a showdown with Commons Speaker John Bercow as the Prime Minister pushes for a knife-edge Commons vote on his Brexit deal.
    Mr Bercow, who Tory Brexiteers have accused of being pro-Remain, will rule on whether the Government can bring a so-called “meaningful vote” on its plans.

    If the Speaker blocks the move, focus will switch to the Government bringing its Withdrawal Agreement Bill before MPs on Monday, with a vote on its second reading on Tuesday.

  24. Prime Minister Boris Johnson faces ‘guerilla war’ over new vote on Brexit deal

    Boris Johnson will tomorrow launch a renewed attempt to push his Brexit deal through Parliament as a rebel alliance of MPs pledged to fight a “guerilla war” to stop Britain leaving the EU by the end of the month.

    The Prime Minister will demand that MPs are allowed a straightforward vote on his deal after Oliver Letwin, a former Conservative Cabinet minister, conspired with Labour to destroy an historic weekend sitting of Parliament which had been expected finally to approve Brexit.

    First up DT Subsilly Editors, I’m sure that there are two ‘r’s in guerrilla. That notwithstanding, this just demonstrates the arrogance of the so-called opposition, inasmuch that they have been screaming for a ‘Deal’. You can’t have one.

    They’ve been screaming for a General Election – you can’t have one (we’re frit).

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/20/prime-minister-boris-johnson-faces-guerilla-war-new-vote-brexit/

  25. A BTL posting in the Tellygraff letters.

    MARY LOUGHLIN 21 Oct 2019 1:07AM

    “The letter from Herbert Potts was significant. I was a teacher for years and to see twelve year old Peter Rees- Mogg having to hear his father abused during the whole walk home horrified me.

    Jacob had the right to take his son to Westminster on what should have been a wonderful, significant day. Instead it turned into another national disgrace.

    I hope the lunatic Letwin has seen the photos and video clips which show how frightened Peter was on his brief walk home.

    Two teenagers were killed on the same day at a party. Twelve police escorted Jacob and his son home. Others had to escort Michael Gove, Andrea Leadsom and probably many more. They also had to address death threats sent to the Labour MP`s from Leave constituencies who wanted to honour their 2017 manifesto by voting for Boris’s deal. The police should have been working elsewhere. They should not have been needed at Westminster.

    To say Westminster MP`s are in a bubble is no longer adequate. The antics in Westminster, lead by Letwin, Bercow, Hammond, Corbyn and McDonnell are tearing this country to pieces. They are not blind to this fact. The reality is they simply don`t care. Their Only objective is power, revenge and control.

    Corbyn hates the EU but LONGS for Number 10. McDonnell LOVES the EU and ditto Hammond and Letwin. I don`t think Bercow is committed to anything other than himself: self importance and personal power. A very inadequate, bitter man who is trying so hard to look big. In reality he just looks like a rat from the gutters along with the aforementioned.

    What is happening in Westminster is not misguided conduct. It is corrupt conduct of the highest order and Bercow should be prosecuted for such a flagrant abuse of position.

    Presumably, if Parliament vote for a very different Deal, Boris can refuse to negotiate that deal. The EU can only negotiate with the Government, so then an GE is the only alternative.

    The EU could of course stop all of this and simply refuse any form of extension. That would be wise but in the past the one thing Europe has not been is wise!

    Only the occupier of Number 10 can deliver Brexit, so the blood bath we and the world are having to watch is pure self destruction without any purpose whatsoever.

    Labour are totally destroying their credibility with the electorate, which will serve Boris very nicely when an imminent election is called.

    But what has this travesty cost the county in terms of finance and destruction of moral? Our standing in the world has been damaged so badly and that is unforgivable.

    Legislation must be delivered to stop anything like this ever happening again.”

    Onwards and upwards…

    1. I think Britain is in danger of sharing the same wobbly neurotic non status as the Merkel woman .. Rather narcissistic yet neither black nor white .

    2. The only solution is to have a general election.

      The parties must decide whether they are pro or anti Brexit and their candidates must represent this view and be subject to immediate expulsion if they do not.

      This Labour, SNP, the Greens and Lib/Dems parties should make an electoral pact to support remaoning in the EU while the Conservatives and The Brexit parties should form a pact to support a completely clean Brexit.

      The trouble is that the Remainers are full of fury and hatred but lack the courage to have a proper general election.

    3. Trouble is, Mary, Boris’ deal does not get us out and free. It only gets us partially out and when I voted to leave, I didn’t vote to still be subject to the ECJ or to have the EU still in control of our fisheries and agriculture.

  27. Off to the vet’s this morning for Spartie’s pedicure.
    Hope I will retain my typing fingers.

    https://brexitcentral.com/saturdays-antics-in-the-house-of-commons-made-me-sick-and-ashamed-to-be-an-mp/

    Richard Drax in Brexit Central.
    “Saturday’s antics in the House of Commons made me sick and ashamed to be an MP

    I left the House of Commons on Saturday afternoon feeling sick. The treachery of many MPs in this disgraced Palace of Westminster is literally sick-making.

    As a former soldier, I shall not hold back from saying what I think, because I am ashamed of this determined effort to prevent our departure from the EU. And, make no mistake, Oliver Letwin’s continued efforts to prevent a no-deal departure are only a fig-leaf for his and others’ true intentions.

    The Speaker had reduced speech times to only five minutes when Theresa May was called. She may be the worst negotiator in history, but by gum did she dish it out to great effect in the Chamber. You could see jaws sagging on Opposition benches, as she tore into those sworn, for whatever reason, to undermine our democracy. When Mrs May sat down, I, too, waved my Order Paper vigorously in support.

    The collective effort from the very top to the very bottom to damage our fragile democracy is staggering. Normally, a country has to be subjugated by bomb and bullet before it becomes a slave state, but today our ruling class is quite prepared to accept the status quo without so much as a by your leave.

    For this whole issue is about democracy – and the survival of it. How many times have I heard Remainers opine that people did not know what they were doing in June 2016? Well, I have spoken to many, many constituents in Leave-voting South Dorset and all of them are very clear why they voted Leave. It was simply for our country to regain control of her destiny – that’s it. Whatever decisions are then made, for better or worse, richer or poorer, are ours.

    The thuggish behaviour of some of those protesting Remainers on Saturday only underlines their intolerance, complete disrespect for democracy and, worse, indicates where this country might well head, were we to stay in.

    The Prime Minister frequently used the words “friends” and “neighbours” during his excellent speech. And, of course, when we leave the EU, we will remain just that with Europe and, no doubt, they with us.

    But, to get there, Conservative MPs – all of them – must start working together. I fear, though, from what I’ve seen, that a handful will continue to pursue their clearly embittered path of destruction at all costs. However, having heaped ignominy on themselves, I am confident their constituents will seek retribution if they stand at the next election.

    And MPs aside, we must ensure the next Speaker honours the Chair. I’m afraid this one has not, and his openly partisan approach is also responsible for the ongoing chaos in which we find ourselves.

    I was privileged to serve our country in our Armed Forces, where I experienced courage, integrity, genuine friendship, selflessness, sacrifice and leadership. Then, in 2010, I entered the House of Commons. Of course, there are many MPs who share these characteristics, but by God there are a large number who do not. And this Brexit debacle has left them horribly exposed.

    We will leave the EU, as the people have spoken and will accept no less. So, the sooner it’s done, the sooner a crumb of integrity can return to our politics.”

    2. I left the House of Commons on Saturday afternoon feeling sick.

      Same here from 2 minutes viewing. I had to turn it off and that’s after watching the antics of this scum for the last twenty years! Drax one suspects shares something in common with the people he is berating, which is that when this is all over they can resume their normal Parliamentary lives. This is not to be. They have destroyed the very thing that they were supposed to serve. If it survives at all it will be as a catspaw for the EU. It is certainly dead as a Democratic Instititution of the UK. Like the Roman Senate under the Caesars it will pontificate and argue but the real power will lie elsewhere!

    4. I was impressed when Richard Drax repented the fact that he himself had been flustered into voting for Evil May’s treacherous WA the third time it was presented and he made an abject apology for having done so. (Of course JRM and Boris voted for it then too but they did not repent or apologise).

      But I do wonder if Richard Drax has fully understood that Boris’s WA is little better than Evil May’s . It is like giving contraceptives to a sterile woman or an impotent man.

      A full and clean Brexit is the only way that Britain will be saved and I suggest that if and when the next general election comes Mr Drax stands for the Brexit Party.

      John Milton was a great poet and a great enthusiast for Parliament and before the execution of Charles Ist in 1649 he had written pamphlets supporting the Parliamentarians . I wonder what he would have thought of the current mess?.

      Yesterday I quoted some lines from Milton’s Samson Agonistes which bear frequent repetition:

      “But what more oft in Nations grown corrupt,
      And by their vices brought to servitude,
      Than to love Bondage more than Liberty,
      Bondage with ease than strenuous liberty;”

      It is worth recalling that, even though even though Parliament won the civil war and Oliver Cromwell (ironically succeeded in the monarchist style by his own son!) replaced the monarch for a few years and the monarchy was restored in 1660. Even if the odious and evil powers n Parliament manage to triumph in the short term Brexit will win through in the end.

    5. I hate the way you see dogs out walking whose claws have not been trimmed, so they have gone sideways because they spend most of their time on soft floors.

      1. They need regular trimming to stop that. There is also the additional problem of the quicks growing with the claw and a minor job ends up as a blood bath. I walk Spartie along pavements to try to file down his claws, but I suspect he is too light to wear then down.
        One of our JRs was fine with the procedure – the other used to throw wobblers.
        Spartie – who is generally Mr. Laid Back and Everyone’s Friend – is impossible to manicure. He was fine as a puppy but became difficult once he was over a year old.
        Ho hum: fingers crossed for Wednesday.

  28. The next 10 days are going to see our Parliament at its worst, nastiest and traitorous. This morning’s BBC Radio 4 News gave us a flavour of what’s to come. The future of Brexit is up for grabs. I hope we get what we have been told many times during the Referendum debate and beyond – a “clean break” from the EU.

  29. At this moment of posting (9.15AM), it is 53 years ago to the minute that the Aberfan disaster occurred.
    Tip No.7 collapsed onto Pantglas Junior School and 144 people lost their lives that day in 1966.
    Lest we forget.

    1. What was macabre was that some coach tour operators organised trips for ghouls to go and gawp.

    3. A sombre memory.
      During my 1st term at Chepstow one of the lads in my group made a joke about Aberfan and received a well deserved knuckling from one of the Junior Sergeants who’d been one of those tasked with assisting in the clear-up.

      This video I watched yesterday is of a similar incident of a mudslide in Norway, an extremely well made documentary of the type the BBC et al appear to be totally unable to make nowadays.
      https://youtu.be/3q-qfNlEP4A

  30. The brutal facts are that the country is utterly divided,
    Leave won but not by a huge margin which is why the
    remain bunch don’t shut up and will do all they can to
    try and stop Brèxit. They are disgraceful and undemocratic
    but will still do all they can .
    Parliament wants us to remain in the EU and will appose
    the Deal which they say gives us too much sovereign power
    and puts laws back into our hands. There are also Sainted
    Farage’s little band of followers who have a utopian dream
    of past Colonial glories ( nice but not a reality in the modern world
    of trading blocs .

    Boris Johnson’s deal cannot be perfection but it’s a start on the road
    and he did the legal thing by working on a deal and showing it
    to parliament. Parliament can of course forget sabotage and self
    Interest but if they don’t the government has it’s
    option of a No Deal Brèxit of which we are all set up to do,
    we are financially able to do so and trading deals have been
    quietly set up . But whatever happens Jeremy Corbyn must
    not be allowed to turn this country into his Marxist utopia,
    he has already said he wants to close don’t immigrant centres and
    that refugees should come straight into our communities,
    the man is a danger and more then the EUs equal in
    totalitarian dictatorship .

    1. So you like Brussels having almost full control of Britain during the extendable transition period without a British veto.

      And that is just the overture before negotiations for a trade deal in which Brits will have to give away concession after concession.

      The whole thing is insane.

      1. Polly, I ‘d like Boris Johnson to stick to his guns
        and go with a No Deal Brèxit on the 31 / 10 / 19
        which I think he has the legal right to lead but I am
        not too sure about that. Can government override
        Parliament, I am not sure. The deal was a legal requirement
        to produce in Parliament, I am sure Boris Johnson
        would love to heroically run around with new trade deals and
        a no deal Brèxit. But I think there is now too much
        power with the Remain side and it might not happen at all.

        1. No Deal Brexit is obviously the way to go, but it looks unlikely to happen.

          It would be made much easier if Boris Johnson exposed the £100,000,000 anti Brexit conspiracy which would wreck Remain.

          1. The such should’ve been done during the 3 years of pointless
            chatting. I think Boris Johnson wants everyone to understand
            that regardless of how they voted that Brèxit won and
            to behave with English dignity and honour.
            Brèxit needs support within it’s own countrymen as it moves
            forward whether that be with a compromise of a Deal or
            No Deal at the end of the month. Those enemies within
            might be our ultimate downfall.

    2. 1.3m is a far larger margin than the vote for the Welsh Assembly which went ahead with no problem, so “not by a huge margin” doesn’t stand up to scrutiny. The remain bunch won’t shut up because they scent victory and with Parliament, the media, al Bebeera and the EU on their side why shouldn’t they? We, the people, need to show them that they are mistaken.

  31. Labour will today call for a second referendum ,
    Letwins treachery played utterly into their hands.

    1. Why does Brussels want immunity from prosecution for EU employees while they have new controls over Britain during the extendable transition period ?

        1. I disagree. Those currently sitting in parliament must be forced to face a wall and shot
          Fixed it for you
          ‘Morning sr

    2. At the vet’s this morning, I got chatting to a woman who’d been held up in the myriad mismanaged road works around Colchester.
      Her anger quickly segued into Brexit. She made me sound peaceful and laid back.
      Remember, this lass didn’t know me but she felt moved to state her political views to a total stranger.
      This is not British, let alone English, behaviour.
      I really don’t think Parliament understand what they have unleashed.

      1. I agree. Everywhere I hold a conversation (and as a dog walker that’s pretty random and frequent on a daily basis), people don’t take long to get onto the subject of Brexit and anger is definitely simmering under the surface.

    1. Forces of evil. Jeremy Corbyn has also said that any Labour
      Mps that vote against him will be removed from their seats.
      I can only imagine what type of Prime Minister we’ll
      have if the hard Left Labour trots take over, it’s those
      behind Jeremy Corbyn who pull his strings.
      There is more then one totalitarian dictatorship besides
      The EU and maybe there are those who’ve lost sight of that fact.

  34. One for Minty

    The British Government’s narrative that a Kremlin-ordered

    assassination plot against a former GRU agent, Sergei Skripal, in March

    of 2018 also caused the death of a woman, Dawn Sturgess, three months

    later, has collapsed for lack of evidence admissible in court.

    After nineteen months of investigations by hundreds of police,

    military personnel, forensic scientists, and secret service agents,

    including Skripal himself and his daughter Yulia, the Metropolitan

    Police have been unable to present their case for the cause of death of

    Dawn Sturgess to the Wiltshire and Swindon County senior coroner, David

    Ridley (lead image). Ridley’s court is located at 26 Endless Street,

    Salisbury, the town in which Skripal was allegedly attacked on March 4,

    2018. Sturgess fell ill on June 30 at her companion’s home in Amesbury,

    nine miles from Salisbury. She died on July 8.

    Because Ridley cannot rule on the cause of death according to the

    requirements of British law, the Government has decided to prevent an

    inquest from being held. Although Ridley has ordered postponements of

    the inquest every six months since he convened the first pre-inquest

    review (PIR) on July 19, 2018, he and his superiors in London decided

    last week that the hearing scheduled for this week should not be held at

    all, and that the Sturgess inquest should be delayed sine die, without a date being set.

    This is tantamount to ending the legal process – without a ruling

    that Sturgess had been the victim of murder. That in turn casts grave

    legal doubt on the British police, government and press allegations of

    what caused Skripal’s collapse, and who was responsible.

    Rest here

    http://johnhelmer.net/skripal-update-english-coroner-runs-out-of-legal-camouflage-and-genuine-evidence-for-postponing-inquest-into-dawn-sturgess-death-spokesman-attempts-lying-to-press/

    1. Why the fuss ? The Russians bumped off a double agent, which was a highly commendable action, and there may or may not have been a bit of collateral damage. Things happen.

    3. Morning Rik. It’s quite clear that the Police Investigation into Dawn Sturgess’ death has, like the Darroch and Williamson enquiries been blocked at source. The “attack” on the Skripals is so transparently fake that Dixon of Dock Green would have solved it in 10 minutes!

      2. Sergeant Dixon would have taken his life in his hands if he solved it Minty,his untimely end at the hands of a “Robber” would be fast-forwarded to the start of the film before he could say a word
        ‘Morning

        1. I’m confused by your post, Rik. I thought that Dirk Bogarde shot him (Dixon) dead long before he was promoted to Sergeant!

          :-))

      2. Lord Lundy was given excellent advice by his father after too many lachrymose displays:

        ‘We had intended you to be
        The next prime minister but three
        The stocks were sold, the press was squared,
        The middle class was quite prepared
        But as it is, my language fails:
        Go out and govern New South Wales.        ‘

      3. I still think the best plan is to repeat the way we handled the difficulty of Mrs Simpson. We just apply the same solution to Mrs Engelson. Make her husband governor of the Bahamas. Out of the way and lots of partying, just what’s needed.

        1. I would imagine the Bahamas have had enough of errant Royals being dumped on them.
          Once bitten, twice shy.

    4. Out of Africa. Not Meryl Streep. Harry and Megan.
      Other half watched it. I was here, waiting for one of you to say something interesting. Some hopes.
      Other half reported on Megan. ” She’s bloody useless “.
      Sounds about right.

    5. Harry should take Lady Macbeth’s advice:

      “Stand not upon the order of your going but go at once.”

      We may welcome him back after his divorce with his tail. between his legs whenever that will be. But he will have to be penitent and next time he must choose a woman more like his step-mother than his birth mother.

  37. Daily Brexit Betrayal

    This is how they hope to achieve it. First of all, there’s the Motion on “The Deal”. We described yesterday (here)

    how Jacob Rees-Mogg tabled this for Business in today’s HoC. Then the

    government plans to get cracking on the actual legislation needed to

    implement Brexit. However, Speaker Bercow, who was ‘blindsided’ by JRM,

    will have had time to ponder what he can do to alleviate the outrage of

    the Remain Harlots:

    “Under Commons rules a

    motion that is the “same in substance” as one tabled earlier in the

    session cannot be brought forward again. John Bercow, the Speaker who

    decides if the vote can take place, has already signalled his irritation

    with the government.” (link, paywalled)

    Bercow can obviously try to make certain

    that this vote won’t be allowed. However, you can bet the last shirt

    off your back that Jacob Rees-Mogg is fully aware of this pitfall and

    that he will have prepared accordingly.

    While Oliver Letwin has ‘promised’ not to table

    yet another amendment, others will be happy to pick up where he left

    off. Two amendments are crucial for Remain. One is to incorporate a 2nd

    Referendum in the Bill, which is what Labour is now pushing for as Keir

    Starmer made clear on TV yesterday. The other could be an amendment to

    force us to remain in the CU:

    “Senior DUP figures –

    who previously propped up the minority Conservative government –

    indicated the party could unite with Labour to force through an

    amendment to the Bill which would compel the Government to pursue a

    customs union with Brussels. […] In an effort to secure the DUP’s

    support for a customs union, Sir Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit

    secretary, said Labour’s “door is open”.” (paywalled link)

    Nobody knows what the precise wordings

    of those amendments are or indeed how many there will be. Thus

    everybody is again speculating, based on the latest ‘pronouncements’.

    Another point about the amendments is to force Johnson into begging the

    EU for yet another extension:

    https://independencedaily.co.uk/your-daily-brexit-betrayal-monday-21st-october-2019/

    1. Those pressing for a Customs Union with the EU know full well that the UK will not be able to negotiate any individual trade deals as it is known as “Having your cake and eating it” which EU member states won’t swallow. So we can only conclude that the Bar Stewards pressing for this are trying to ensure that the Democratic Will of the People clearly demonstrated in the June 2016 Referendum is not implemented and that we remain locked into the EU Empire with its unelected and unaccountable leaders. Words and Expletives fail me.

  38. JR is right, so the question is why don’t Boris and Treasa want his solution ?

    Is it because they are part of the globalist conspiracy, or globalist ideologues……. or just stoopid ?

    —

    How to leave the EU
    By JOHNREDWOOD | Published: OCTOBER 21, 2019
    Over the last three days I have tried one more time to persuade the government that the best way to leave is to table a Free Trade Agreement based on EU/Japan and EU/Canada, and offer talks after we leave on 31 October. If the EU says Yes then we can avoid all tariffs and new trade barriers whilst the free trade issues are discussed, if necessary at length. If they refuse this sensible offer which is much in their own interest we leave on the basis of WTO trade, cutting tariffs on our imports as we do so. This is leaving with a WTO deal, including arrangements and agreements for government procurement, haulage, aviation, customs, pipelines, transport links, energy and much else which are now ready.

    I have given this consistent advice since 2016. Had Mrs May followed it we would have left a long time ago and would probably have an FTA by now. We would not have paid them large sums of money, not had a long and expensive delay in departure, and not had to face laws and regulations from the EU which we do not have a say on. If we did it now it would avoid the unhappy parts of the Withdrawal Agreement and the further 15 month delay in exit. Above all it would avoid the vexatious and difficult processes with the Withdrawal legislation that await us, offering Remain MPs more opportunities to delay or damage Brexit. It would save us a lot of money, avoid a period until December 2020 when the EU can legislate and overrule us, and deal with the issues on the Irish border.

    What is happening in the Commons is a clear polarisation into Leave and Remain teams, with the Leave team getting behind the Withdrawal Agreement route. The Remain team including all Opposition parties seems united, determined to use court actions, rushed hostile legislation and any Commons opportunity to delay or prevent Brexit. The poor negotiating by Mrs May, the loss of the Conservative/DUP majority, and the relentless pressure from the Benn Act and other Remain operations has weakened the UK bargaining position and placed the new government in a very difficult position. If the government does not recognise the need to table an FTA and choose a different route out, we are all left with sub optimal choices.

    2. That’s not true though. There were many people desperately involved in Lisbon and all the others. The difference there is they said ‘whatever the flip you do, don’t let the public *ever* hear of this.

      Heck, Brown has the European Constitution changed to the Lisbon treaty specifically to ensure that the public had no ability to understand what a monstrous, undermining, destructive travesty that poisonous document was.

      1. I don’t think you can lay that particular crime at Brown’s door. He merely sloped off to sign it furtively in a back room having reneged on giving us a say on it. It was the EU Politburo, with the connivance of Valérie Giscard-d’Estaing (who admitted that it was the Constitution with just a word changed here or there).

  40. Mail to Mr R……………

    You are So Right !

    That leads to the question………..

    Why don’t Boris and Treasa want your solution ?

    Is it because they are part of the G S/E U conspiracy, or E U sympathisers…. or are they just stoopid ?

    There is so much here to investigate, but will anyone do so ?

    Polly

  41. Bodies of suspected Iraqi migrants wash up in France

    The bodies of two young men believed to have been trying to cross the Channel into Kent have washed up onto a beach.
    They were found yesterday morning in Le Touquet, France, by passersby.

    3. Bodies of two young men? Well, that hardly holds our attention for 10 minutes in multiculltural England.

      1. Morning B,
        I was on a corn beef recycling plant installation on Gib, went around the cemetery, interesting, spent a great deal of time in main street.
        Ps A great deal of the corn beef unprocessed went out the back door and landed up on the market stall in the casaba in Tangiers.

    1. There should be nothing preventing reversion to WTO regulation now. The only group fighting against what’s best for this country are fanatic, treacherous turncoats like Woolaston.

    2. She demonstrates very clearly all that is wrong with modern politics. She does not represent her constituents , just herself. She is in effect sticking two fingers up to the electorate

  45. Lufthansa Cabin-Crew Union Extends Its Strike Through Sunday

    Cabin crew at SunExpress Deutschland, Lufthansa CityLine, Germanwings and Eurowings are taking part in the strike action, which was originally set to end at 11 a.m. local time, the union said in a statement on Sunday. The walkouts apply to all departures from German airports during the targeted period.

    1. Born to British parents fighting for ISIS.

      Then they’re not British, are they? They might live here, but they are not of us. They’re foreign combatants, and thus targets. Same as Clarke and Grieve and so on.

  47. Abortion reform: NI politicians to return to Stormont

    NI’s Stormont Assembly will sit for the first time in nearly three years after being recalled in a last-ditch attempt to stop the reform of abortion laws.
    Unionist parties, who oppose upcoming changes to abortion laws, triggered the recall with a petition.
    NI has been without a devolved government since January 2017 when the power-sharing parties split.
    Abortion laws will change at midnight unless devolution is restored but the recall is seen as largely symbolic.
    Without an executive in place, Stormont cannot affect the laws.
    It is unlikely an executive will be established as it needs support from both the unionist and republican communities.

    2. I see we’re heading towards Chinese ‘Democracy’. I’m sure Cardiff University got the AI from Peeking University.

    3. Ah, but Roper crime is never a hate crime. It’s barely considereed terrorism. Heck, Kahn said it was just ‘part and parcel of a big city’, as if being murdered because you don’t have the same attitudes is a reason to drive a truck in to you/cut off your head etc etc.

    1. Let’s hope that they are not hoping for another few £Billion bung to vote for the Wretched Agreement.

      3. The Daily Telegraph said on Saturday ” In order to free Great Britain from EU control, Mr Johnson has had to leave Northern Ireland behind”

  50. General Election Prediction

    Current prediction Conservative 58 seat Majority, It is not enough to be safe. Prediction vary and it is common for the party tin power to lose support during the campaign. Boris really needs to come to an arragment over which seat each party will fight. This should ensure a Conservative majority

    Con 354
    Lab 195
    Lib-Dem 31
    Brexit 0
    Green 1
    SNP 48
    PLaid 3
    DUP 9
    SF 7
    Allience 1
    NI Other 1

    1. If we Leave on the Boris’s current deal the Brexit party must surely gain votes or destroy the Conservatives in some constituences and gain votes in some Labour and Lib/Dem seats. If we have an extension to Article 50 the Conservative vote will collapse if there is an election.

      1. When push comes to shove people will vote Tory or Labour in their droves. It’s near impossible for new parties to make significant impacts.

        1. It is extremely difficult, rather than near impossible; it just takes time and circumstances to coincide.

          1. No new parties have made any real impact in about 120 years. The last was the Labour party, and that’s because the Whigs disappeared and left a void.

    2. That list below the Conservatives all below
      isn’t a well balanced representative of the electorate
      all of them are left leaning or hard left as with Labour and the
      SNP as hard left just imagine the totalitarian dictatorship with
      those in coalition.
      What’s not being mentioned is how many are following the Lib Dems
      regardless of its silly girl of a leader, they are swallowing up
      the remain vote and who Labour consider their competition.

  52. I had a Facebook account until they started turning the screw and demanding personal information I wasn’t prepared to give. I was shown the door.

    After a bit of a search, I got the impression that their cuddly, benign, social media persona was a front for an information gathering organisation.

    Another search revealed that there are alternatives, MeWe being one such. They and the others have a mountain to climb – here’s hoping.

    1. Don’t mention wee-me…up three times last night!

      ‘Morning, Eddy. Ar5ebook is ‘free’ for a reason…

        2. I wish I had. The dog had one of his restless nights and I barely got any sleep at all. Due to the disturbance of sleep in the first place and the fact that when the dog did finally settle down and sleep he snored for England, I spent most of the night hours awake.

  53. Auberon Waugh was in favour of staying in the EU – not because of of virtues or benefits of the EU but because he could not imagine that European politicians could be as completely foul as our own.

    Many of us who admired Bron thought that he had been wrong on this issue and we drew attention to Juncker, Verhofstadt, Barnier and Tusk in order to prove that Europen politicians are even worse than our own.

    But Bron has been proved right – we must face defeat. We undoubtedly do have the foulest, most corrupt and undemocratic, hatred-filled politicians in Europe. So if we do leave the EU then all our MPs should be sacked with immediate effect without redundancy pay or pension.

    1. I have many a battle with his grandson’s delusionsional
      obsession with Richard De Shakespeare or anyone who
      might be the real Bard of Stratford .. preferably he
      likes Oxfraudians or anyone in his anti William Shakespeare
      delusion. Of course a shy and retiring aristocrat would
      hide his writings within that of an actor of the court of Elizabeth I
      and use a pseudonym whilst sending time producing little
      clues to whom he might actually be.
      Poor poor Alexander just doesn’t have the wit, talent or
      Intelligence of his grandfather or father .
      Off topic I know .

        1. There were Baconites before Oxfraudians and a little Marlowe
          thrown in the mixture. Bacon a man with a towering intellect,
          a ground breaking philosopher, legal scholar and scientist.
          And keeper of Ganymedes .
          Bacon and Shakespeare’s writing style were nothing alike,
          the range of knowledge that Shakespeare displayed were
          mere grains of sand on Marlowes beach.
          The fact that Bacon was a candidate for ” the Shakespeare
          identity theory ” shows what a great writer that William
          Shakespeare happened to be.

    2. Dear life. They’re animals.

      Yet.. I have to ask: why? Such behaviour is learned. Who are they learning it from? Where are their parents? Where is their self disicpline? Their dignity? Their pride?

      OK, on hearing a short, over compensating little man behind me whispering abuse I turned and nearly walked through him, but generally, in 99% of the cases I am a decent honourable human being. Why are they not?

  56. US takes step to require asylum-seekers’ DNA

    The Justice Department will publish an amended regulation Monday that would mandate DNA collection for almost all migrants who cross between official entry points and are held even temporarily, according to the official.

    The rule does not apply to legal permanent residents, or anyone entering the U.S. legally. Children under 14 are exempt

      1. H’mmm …. in Blighty it would start that way. (“For your own good/If you’ve nothing to hide you’ve nothing to fear.”)
        Within months it would apply to the whole population.
        Which reminds me – what has happened to the records of innocent people who had their DNA taken?
        It’s gone very quiet.

        1. I understand the antipathy to keeping DNA records but, logically, why are they any different in principle to facial photos for which I doubt that there is any prohibition on keeping? Are old passport, driving licence or visa (travel not credit card) or student union photos required to be destroyed after x number of years?

          1. A primary difference is that your DNA says so much about you. The information would be a goldmine, and “bent” politicians would sell access to it to every Tom, Dick and Harry. On a basic level you can see the information being abused in areas such as insurance. If your DNA shows a pre-disposition to heart disease or breast cancer etc. Then you can see your premiums costing 10 times as much, if they allow you to have insurance at all.

            On a more sinister level, you can imagine what the followers of a certain cult could do if they told the computer to print out a list of all of those people who had “Jewish” sequences in their DNA. That would save them a lot of time and let them know who exactly to target. Further down the road it could be “Print out a list of anyone left who has English, Irish, Scottish or Welsh indicators.”

            I would not trust our current politicians with a postage stamp, let alone the details of my genetic code.

          2. I agree with much of what you say could possibly be the practise but I was questioning the principle. However, DNA records could also be of enormous value to society – not just in crime prevention and elimination of suspects but in organ donation, disease prevention, medical screening, better public health programmes and a more efficient and effective NHS.

        2. Yes that sould be unacceptable for people already living here. They should be exempt from this list.

          I have no difficulty at all with applying it to those who are trying to invade our country though.

        3. Yes that sould be unacceptable for people already living here. They should be exempt from this list.

          I have no difficulty at all with applying it to those who are trying to invade our country though.

    3. “Legal permanent residents” would have already given blood as part of the medical screening required to gain residency, so they are on record. They also make sure you don’t have TB, the pox, the clap and multiple other transmittable diseases – or have drugs in your system.

      1. Hmmm. I wish I hadn’t watched that. Although my mind knows it already, has known for many years. I try to put it on the backburner so that I can get on with life but vote accordingly.

        1. I think that’s exactly what we all do pm,the problem is,vote for who??
          No politician in Western Europe is prepared to even acknowlege the coming problems let alone propose ideas to solve them

          1. Afternoon Rik,
            “For whom” ? there is, and always has been since it designed & activated the referendum only one party but to vote for it is to admit that the usual voting pattern has been a complete failure, and in point of fact, very nearly lost us a nation.

          2. The Nigel Farage led UKIP harried the Cameron led Tories into designing & activating the referendum.

          3. Don’t be bloody daft.
            As for farage and in regards to UKIP he is a self confessed user / abuser, he is on record as such.

          4. Rik – Many of the politicians in Western Europe are deliberately making this happen. They want it to be this way, so they wont try to solve the problem. They will try to make it worse as fast as possible.

            Those who embrace this darkness infest our politics now. But they have tried before and failed. After they are defeated again we will need to have plaques in every school and textbook warning in crystal-clear terms why those who want to rule over others should be beaten with a stick and consigned to being street sweepers.

          5. Look at the way Gerard Batten was demonised when he tried to publicise the threat (and I hardly dare mention the fate of TR who brought the plight of white girls at the hands of muslim grooming gangs to public view).

    1. Afternoon TB,
      Currently, It is my belief that the ring of stars run up is a
      fleet warning of rampant diarrhoea aboard steer clear.

    3. You can almost see the sailor in charge of signals looking at the box of flags and saying “He wants to say WHAT?!”

      His aching fingers would have been stiff that night.

  59. Morning GG,
    I am in the most a tolerant chap, I do believe that the old clog has totally lost it, sad really, could it be on medical grounds I ask ?
    This is his latest issue,
    Oh, do piss off get stuffed, effing idiot.

  60. Sex crimes on british rail has nearly doubled in 5 years now if that was wages linked we would all be bloody millionaires.

  61. The EU loves the tasty new Boris fudge which is newly available.

    Mmmmm, they all say as they pass it round, this is good !

  62. Well, that was a success – NOT.
    Two Grown Women – 0; small dog – 1
    Now have a Mickey Finn to stick in Spartie’s breakfast on Wednesday in preparation for another go.

    1. The Vet managed to get Dolly’s done. And to show her appreciation she did a poo on his table.

    2. A group of children playing “king of the castle” in a sandbox. Very important in their own eyes.

      The Universe is a big place, and eternity is a long time. These New World Order people see only what is in front of them, and their time is up when their 3 score and 10 comes to an end.

    4. Certainly full of the corrupt and incompetent. Just another old boys club. Thankfully they make public who they are. Much easier to round them up.

  64. Boris fudge should be recalled for a full analysis of the ingredients before Brits get a nasty dose of bellyache.

    1. The crucial word – lent – to me.

      I would argue that we do not lend any MP power. We allow them to act on our behalf.

  68. I’ve just read Roger Bootle’s piece about the housing market – no mention of the I-word.

    1. I haven’t. Joseph, because it is behind a paywall. What does he say.
      Which I word ? The M one ??
      Thanks.

      1. Housing policy madness must end – and solutions are at hand
        ROGER BOOTLE
        20 OCTOBER 2019 • 6:49PM

        The housing market is one of the worst performing parts of the British economy.

        This statement may leave you aghast. You have probably become accustomed to thinking that the health of the housing market is defined by what happens to house prices and, despite some hiccups lately, they have been rising pretty much relentlessly throughout the post-war period.

        For most people, buying a house has been the best investment they have ever made.

        But so what? Rising prices reflect the failure of the system to provide enough homes to keep pace with the increase in demand and a whole swathe of the population has missed out on the capital gains made on housing.

        Moreover, the consequences of an inadequate supply of housing have been dire for the well-being of many British people.

        It is important not to get this mixed up with the issue of ownership. Owner-occupation does bring benefits for both the owners and society.

        But it isn’t necessary for a properly functioning housing market that a majority of residential property is owner-occupied.

        In Germany, for instance, only 50pc of property is owner-occupied. What we suffer from is an inadequate supply of property for both owner-occupation and rent. It is high rents as much as high property prices that should be the subject of public policy concern.

        Admittedly, in a relatively small island with a large population, property prices (and rents) are always going to be high relative to their counterparts in other countries with more buildable space.

        That said, we could have done so much better. As a society, we have not faced up to the basic realities of housing supply and are regularly seduced by hare-brained schemes that do no good or actually make matters worse. George Osborne’s “Help to Buy” scheme is an egregious recent example.

        Rural insanity
        Last week saw another bout of housing madness, this time from the Campaign to Protect Rural England (CPRE).

        The CPRE is rightly dedicated to the protection of natural beauty. There is a key public interest here that is not reflected in the profits of housebuilders or the interests of new homeowners.

        And the CPRE is right to urge the development of brownfield land held by government and other public bodies.

        But the preservation of natural beauty isn’t the only legitimate interest. There are others against which this concern must be balanced. Moreover, greenbelt land is not always of outstanding natural beauty. Green can easily shade into brown.

        The CPRE argues that recent building on greenbelt land, far from providing much needed homes for first-time buyers, has increased the supply of higher value properties.

        It alleges that this amounts to “squandering” greenbelt land. Supposedly the only thing that justifies using greenbelt land is the building of so-called “affordable” housing.

        This is apparently mixed up with the underlying assumption that because building on greenbelt land has evidently not stopped house prices from rising then it has failed to make houses more affordable.

        Yet all new housebuilding will have depressed house prices relative to what they would otherwise have been. If this hasn’t brought about an outright fall in house prices it is because it hasn’t been large enough in relation to the forces making for increased demand.

        Back to basics
        We need to return to basics, namely the economics of supply and demand. Increasing numbers of people in this country, combined with the tendency of people to want more and better accommodation as they grow richer, has put upward pressure on the price of property.

        The building industry has failed to keep pace, not primarily because of deficiencies in the building process or the speculative hoarding of land, but because of the difficulty of getting enough land with planning permission to build residential homes.

        The effects have been exacerbated by the impact of the tax system on the demand for housing. Owner-occupied housing is exempt from capital gains tax, in marked contrast to just about every other asset.

        Meanwhile, the benefit of living in your own home is not taxed, again in contrast to the returns on just about all other assets.

        Consequently, it is hardly surprising that there is an enormous investment demand for property. This results in people acquiring and holding on to more property than they would do if the tax treatment were different.

        This tendency has recently been compounded still more by the effects of increased rates of stamp duty, which penalises housing transactions and thereby tends to inhibit people from moving, including downsizing.

        The result is a large number of people hanging on to larger properties than they need.

        No right to buy
        Another recent example of housing madness is the Labour Party’s proposal to offer the tenants of private landlords the right to buy their properties. This would amount to the ability of tenants effectively to expropriate assets from landlords.

        Now if you are of a socialist bent, you might regard this as no bad thing on the grounds that tenants, by and large, are much poorer than their landlords, and therefore, according to socialist theology, necessarily more deserving. (Doubtless most readers would have a different take.)

        But the consequences for the provision of housing would be dire. Who would provide houses or flats for rent? The result would be fewer properties available and hence, inevitably, higher rents. This is surely the very opposite of what even a Corbyn-led government should be seeking to achieve.

        The solution to our inadequate supply of housing is the release of more public land, reform of the planning laws to make obtaining planning permission easier, making it easier to switch property usage from office or retail to residential and a radical reform of the tax system, including the sharp reduction, or even abolition, of stamp duty.

        A government that had the guts to enact such a programme would make a real difference to millions of people.

        Roger Bootle is chairman of Capital Economics. His latest book, The AI Economy – Work, Wealth and Welfare in the Robot Age, has recently been published by Nicholas Brealey.

        roger.bootle@capitaleconomics.com

        https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2019/10/20/housing-policy-madness-must-end-solutions-hand/

        1. Thank you for that.
          Apart from the well-deserved swipe at the Labour Party ( who never in a million years should be allowed anywhere near government ),
          I think Mr. Bootle,along with pretty well everyone else who thinks similarly, has missed the point. Or points.
          I get fed up of these books and articles by assumed experts, which rarely stand up to close analysis.

  69. Well it is election day over here in Canada.

    After a most abysmal negative attacking campaign we are left with the sound belief that a none of the above option would win. What should have been a celebration of citizenship has become a case of holding your nose and trying to avoid the stink of incompetence across the ruling classes.

    For the first time I feel like writing naughty words across the ballot paper.

    1. It is a shame that voting isn’t both compulsary but also contains a ‘None of the above’ option, to encourage the citizen to vote but also to be able to reject the half wits.

      Then, if the none fo the above is the majority, none of the parties can stand.

    3. If nothing else, you will relieve the tedium of the count.
      We always knew when ‘F*ck Off’ had been written on a ballot paper by the laughter amongst the Town Hall functionaries.

    6. Do it and feel clean, richard! It’s a ploy I’ve used several times in the past when I only had the choice of the three main Wastemonster parties.

  70. Is it impossible that Boris might be a globalist agent, or have globalist sympathies, and is deliberately herding the country into a trap ?

  71. No comments allowed, but in her excellent opinion piece “By caving into trans activists, Always have eliminated women” Julie Bindel hits the nail on the head.
    One item she could have picked up on, is how the Trans-delusionists have done serious damage to Women’s Sport by their support of Kyle “Rachel” McKinnon in his quest to be accepted as a woman.

    Always, the sanitary pad brand, has given in to claims of discrimination by transgender men and removed the ‘Venus’ symbol of the female sex from its wrapping. A trans activist tweeted in July asking Always why it was necessary to have the sign on their sanitary wear.

    The tweet read: ‘There are non-binary and trans folks who still need to use your products too you know!’

    One of the defining moments for me, and for most females on the planet, was when I started menstruating. I was 12-years-old, and it was 1974. It wasn’t that common for girls to have been sat down by their mother and told what to expect before it actually happened, and when my period came, I felt anxiety and more than a little embarrassment.

    But today, things are different thankfully. Increasingly, girls are taught from an early age that menstruation is a natural process, and nothing to be frightened or ashamed of. Until of course, the extreme trans activists got involved.

    Always replied that, “We are glad to inform you that as of December we will use a wrapper design without the feminine symbol.” The brand’s public relations team added that the change is set to come in late 2019 and that gender-neutral period products would hit stores in January of 2020.

    Wow. If only us feminists could get a result as significant as a major brand changing its entire marketing strategy so easily. I wish it only took a tweet or two to pressurise advertisers into ditching sexist and demeaning images of women, for example. But, usually, we are simply ignored.

    To add insult to injury, the announcement from Always that it would be eliminating any mention of the female sex from its products was made on “National Period Day,” devised to strive towards “menstrual equity.” Some trans activists even claim that trans women (natal males) can have “period-like” symptoms once a month.

    Earlier this year, I wrote about Kenny, a trans man chosen to front the ‘I’m On’ campaign, which aimed to take the stigma out of periods. I said then, as I will say now, that choosing a person who hated her female body to the point of transitioning, as an ambassador for such a campaign sent exactly the wrong message.

    But of course, the trans activists now have a stranglehold on much of our culture and legislation. I’m sure that those behind ‘I’m On’ felt that it was much more important to be suitably woke than to make real material changes for girls and young women.

    The increased and wholly unreasonable demands of the extreme trans activists are usually met with fear and instant capitulation. We are told that terms such as “pregnant women” and “breastfeeding” are now transphobic.

    It is not enough to accept trans women for who they are, but rather we are now bullied into saying that they are “real women”.

    But they are not. And trans men are still, however much this pains them to admit it, natal females. That means, in the immortal words of Alice Cooper: ‘Only Women Bleed’.

    If this craziness goes any further, women will not be allowed to name ourselves as such, for fear that we will be branded bigots. We will be required to call ourselves ‘cisgender’, and refer to trans women merely as ‘women’.

    Not only are biological men, including sex offenders, allowed in women’s prisons, hospitals, hostels, and refuges, we now have a situation, reported this week, that a number of police forces are recording suspected and convicted rapists as female if they no longer wish to identify with their male birth sex. This means that if a woman is raped by a man, who later decides to identify as female, and the case gets to court, the victim would have to refer to the man that raped her as ‘she’.

    Women’s rights are not only being eliminated, but the right to be a woman, is being extended to men. This Orwellian madness has to stop. The likes of Always should not cave in to trans activists, but rather should recognise that the people boosting their profits and using their product are women – and only women.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/caving-trans-activists-always-have-eliminated-women/

    1. Of course sensible women will stop using their brand and use an alternative instead eg “Always, Always” and let the drop in sales speak for themselves….

    5. That’s lunacy. All I can say is “I’m glad I’m old” because there is a chance I’ll die before all this idiocy gets fully established.

    6. https://nypost.com/2019/10/08/cbs-bbc-america-ban-tv-ad-that-depicts-menstruating-men/

      Meanwhile, over in the U.S.: CBS bans TV ad that depicts menstruating men
      “An underwear ad that depicts a world where men and boys menstruate is getting either banned or censored by several TV networks.

      Thinx, a New York-based maker of feminine hygiene products, said the campaign slated to launch Wednesday on national TV is meant to take the taboo factor out of menstruation.

      The 30-second spot opens with a tortured-looking teenage boy telling his dad that he got his first period. It then cuts to a man rolling over in bed to reveal a blood stain on his sheets. Moments later, another man walks through a locker room with a tampon string dangling out from his underwear.

      Thinx was forced to cut the blood-stain scene outright so the ad could run on national TV, according to a source. But CBS still rejected the spot because of its depiction of the tampon string, the source said, noting that squeamish executives found it too “graphic.”.”

  72. A parliamentary dictatorship. Spiked. Brendan O’Neill. 21 October 2019.

    This parliament is not simply out of touch with public sentiment – something we already knew from the fact that 70 per cent of MPs, and a staggering 95 per cent of Labour MPs, voted Remain, while 52 per cent of the electorate voted Leave. No, it feels increasingly illegitimate, too. It lacks all political and moral authority. It is a zombie parliament. It has no real democratic mandate to govern. ‘But we voted for these MPs just two years ago!’, Remainer apologists for the zombie parliament will cry. True, but 80 per cent of those MPs were elected on manifestos that promised to take the UK fully out of the EU. And vast numbers of them are now reneging on those manifestos. They are tearing apart their contract with voters and in the process obliterating their own right to govern.

    A nice summary by Brendan of the current political situation but nothing that hasn’t appeared on Nottl in various forms!

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/10/21/a-parliamentary-dictatorship/

    1. Who amongst leading Brexiteers is willing to organise a march of Leavers on Parliament on Tuesday 5th November to demand a general Election before any further one-sided negotiations take place with the EU?

      1. Well I’m unable to speak for anyone but myself and I’m not a “leading Brexiteer”; those who are, Rees-Mogg, Nigel Farage etc. are pursuing other avenues and may feel, not unreasonably that marches are of no significance in the present climate!

          1. X 108. If she’d kept going she could have achieved treble top! [I had to edit due to being severely mathematically challenged!]

    2. Our democracy has always functioned like this.

      We only have an illusion of real democracy. People feel they get a say in things because every few years they get to cast a vote for somebody they know little or nothing about. Those elected will usually ignore constituents’ wishes, they will rarely if ever vote against the party line even if it’s something that their constituents feel very differently about to the party.
      We have a system that makes it almost impossible for new parties to form and become major political players. The system itself maintains the status quo and makes it very hard to change things.
      Brexit has just laid all this bare and made it plainer to see because it is such a divisive issue.

    3. Yo Minty

      If an MP was elected by a party that was Pro Brexit, then decides to vote Remain, he/she

      Should be denied the vote, when eligibility checked prior to Ayes and Noes Chamber
      Abstension will lead to a job in the Chiltern Hundreds (same for above)
      Prosecuted for Fraud, all pay and allowances since the last GE/Relevant By Election should be siezed
      Lose any pension rights
      Forbidden to stand for any Public Office, ever, in UK or EU
      Forbidden from taking up any Directorships (cannot be trusted)
      Lose their UK Nationality status (they want to be in the EU, let them live there
      Any Remainers currently having UK Protection details to lose the Priveledge
      Must go to their Constituency and explain why the views of the electorate were ignore

      That is just for starters

    2. Who are the beneficiaries of the climate change and environmental alarmists’ fear projects and why are so many people taken in?

      1. Afternoon R,
        Because mental health issues spread faster than Japanese knot-weed , the lab/lib/con coalition party are riddled with sufferers without who we would have never achieved our current depth in world standing.

      3. Most people are taken in, even intelligent ones, because they get all their news from the MSM and BBC and believe those sources of news to be truthful & accurate. Based only on the people I know either neighbours or work colleagues, it’s my impression that they don’t look beyond those sources of information, nor ever question their veracity. Even the people who are internet savvy don’t seem to search further and if you don’t know certain sites exist you don’t know to search for them.

      4. The UN proposed a financial transaction tax raising trillions to promote a global government,this was rejected
        Climate change is the replacement scam aimed at the same ends

        1. If the masses had any intelligence, they’d recognise immediately the hypocrisy of spending trillions to combat the so called ‘climate crisis’, it can ONLY generate trillions worth of the Human activity that is allegedly causing ‘climate change’ … alas.

          1. It isn’t necessarily that the masses lack intelligence (although we have not been encouraging the brightest and best to breed) so much as the dumbing down of education (gee, thanks Blair) where critical thinking never makes an appearance and the only way to get good marks is to spout the approved line.

          2. Yep, ‘Dumbing down’ is for real and deliberate. The more intelligent are being increasingly marginalised and ‘put off’ from aspiring to ‘higher education indoctrination in favour of the less intelligent who are more susceptible to the indoctrination and possess far less ( if any ) critical thinking ability. Describing it as the masses lacking intelligence was laziness on my part – apologies.

    3. Yo Rik

      Stip confusing the CH/GW cretins with facts

      You know the only true ‘Truth’ is spouted by the BBC.

  74. Male NZ navy personnel are allowed to wear false eyelashes & make up
    but lipstick is banned as it marks the pillows when they meet pirates and are defeated they are jolly well rogered.

    1. The government has taken a while to notice that treacherous MPs and ex MPs are undermining the Government by colluding with our EU adversaries in the Brexit negotiations. We have known this was going on since the referendum and Theresa May turned a blind eye to it as she did as Home Secretary with uncontrolled immigration.

      1. I would suggest that the government ARE the treacherous MP’s, just as much as the opposition parties are.

        1. I would agree that the majority of the Government are treacherous MPs. I like Farage’s idea of getting candidates who have worked for a living.

          Edit: as well as the other you mentioned – to me that went without saying, but just in case…

  76. Tell us: how have South African cities changed in the 25 years after apartheid? Mon 21 Oct 2019.

    The country and its cities were sharply divided. The Group Areas Act dictated that people of different races lived in separate areas, with black people forced to live in townships far from the centre of cities. Public spaces such as parks and beaches were segregated, and there were white-only schools and hospitals. The government restricted the type of jobs black people could do and controlled their movement.

    Nelson Mandela and the African National Congress party came to power in 1994, ushering in a new era for the country.

    A quarter of a century on, how has life changed for those living in its cities?

    Well it’s even more divided but this is now between rich and poor blacks and your chances of being murdered of whatever colour have increased markedly. The Government is totally corrupt and the country is sliding into a collapse that will make the Belgian Congo look like a Teddy Bears Picnic! Apart from that everything is really multiculturally great!

    https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2019/oct/21/tell-us-south-african-cities-after-apartheid

      1. There’s also a piece on Truck Driver robberies – not content with robbery one poor driver had petrol thrown over him and set on fire. He survives in agony.

  78. From BTL at today’s John Redwood’s Diary.

    Mark B’s opinions go some way to crystallise one or two of my thoughts and doubts about Johnson’s intentions. An Associate Agreement would facilitate an easy, for the globalists but extremely painful for the UK as a whole, return to the bosom of the EU. May’s “deal” was seen as an accession treaty in waiting and Johnson has merely re-branded that awful “deal”. Additionally, keeping the Tory Party in being after their plummet to 9% voter share in the EU elections was an imperative after May’s disastrous tenure as leader.

    Johnson is definitely attempting to bounce this deal through using the ‘Boris Bounce’ phenomenon, scrutiny has been minimal: and what of any legal advice being offered to the Cabinet and the HoC? Do not expect the plebs to receive accurate information, only the sound-bites and rallying calls of misdirection.
    “Let’s get Brexit done,” is becoming as tedious as, “Brexit means Brexit,” and the former is probably as false and cynical a ploy as the latter.
    Doubts remain and reserving judgement until who knows when is the safe option.

    Mark B

    Posted October 21, 2019 at 5:30 am | Permalink

    Good morning. . . . with the Leave team getting behind the Withdrawal Agreement . . .

    I would not describe them as Leavers’ since, as the WA (new EU Treaty) is not Leaving but, BRINO.

    I would sooner an extension than sign away our negotiating position in the ‘next round’ of negotiations. Yes, that’s right, next round ! This is far from over and is predicted to go on until the end of 2022.

    What we are witnessing is the UK not trying to Leave the EU but, negotiate an Associate Agreement that keeps us in line-step with the EU.

    The Benn Act has exposed Alexander Johnson MP for what he is and that he clearly does not have a plan other than try to keep the Conservative Party together at the expense of the UK. Well I am sorry, but you cannot make an omelette without breaking eggs and, it is high time that certain elements left the party and joined the LibDems or formed a new party of their own. The Letwin Amendment affords more time for MP’s to scrutinize the so called ‘deal’ (new EU Treaty) and I realise just how bad it is.

    We TRUE Leavers need to sit tight and wait. Once the Tories opinion rating begin to fall, and they will as the ‘Boris Bounce’ loses momentum, the opposition will call a GE. Then we can vote for a party and parliament that will get us OUT !!

    1. Yo agin Rik

      I think that there is a Teansie Weansie typo inthe above article

      The MP above is infact Richard Burkha-on

  80. I’m not sure my equilibrium can tolerate parliament this afternoon
    I might just give it a rest. All day on Saturday and just ended up
    exhausted, I really cannot be bothered today .

    1. The same here.. and I am also very fed up with the Sussex’s attention seeking stupidity ..

      My goodness, it proves that jewelry , high end clothes , celeb friends , flitting across the big pond whenever , staff , house renovations , social media .. blah blah blah really put them both into Bling footballer lifestyle category .

      He should have kept his eyes off her big mouth .. as Moh commented .. she was probably as inviting as the Channel tunnel !

      1. Oh God, don’t get me started on the Megan ‘n’ Harry show, grrr !
        It’s like RCT but worse. How utterly vile and embarrassing.
        They should just go away and live in Africa and try and stay
        out of the limelight that they sooo hate.
        Harry was’nt ever the most substantial sandwich in the hamper
        but he is half the man he used to be and will be even less
        when she’s finished with him.

        1. I don’t think Meghan would last long in Africa! Even if Harry would be happy to rough it in the bush, I’m sure she wouldn’t.

          1. I did wonder about that, Harry would be in his element
            but not quite sure Megan will think it up to her standard
            of fake glamour US glitz. It ‘ok be fine for a public image
            ” resting and helping little orphans ” for awhile but not
            for long. I am sure she’d preferred the Caribbean but
            there is clearly a little play acting going on here
            and I don’t suppose Harry has a say in anything
            and it really is a shame that she has come between Harry
            and his brother who were always close .

          2. There was a reason she and the baby stayed in the relatively civilised part of South Africa while Harry did the rest of the tour alone.

          3. It probably did Harry some good to be away from her.
            It’s a pity things didn’t work out between him and that
            African girlfriend Chelsea but she didn’t like the
            attention or royal lifestyle.. so therefore ideal .
            I cannot see it lasting between Harry and Megan,
            there are those who’ll disagree with me saying she’ll
            stay because of royal titles etc.. But that’ll mean
            nothing to her, she ‘d be happy with the huge amount
            of wealth she has now and the advantages she’ll
            have by having the baby of a Prince .

          6. If the rumours are correct, that he didn’t get a “pre-nup”, he and the Royal family might be somewhat out of pocket.

          7. Does anyone have a print-out of what the Queen and the Duke said to one another when they found out that Harry and Meghan were getting wed ?

          11. The Duke did tell Harry that “One steps out with actresses, one does not marry them”.

            Pity he did not listen to the old rogue’s advice.

            And there were probably comments containing the phrase “a touch of the tar brush”, if Philip’s past history is anything to go on. He was never one for PC.

          13. She can get in touch with her real roots, and she won’t like that one bit .. as the drums start to beat and the mossies start biting .. and the dry weather causes water shortages ..

    2. Watch England beat Australia on ITV Hub.
      Lighten your heart and see how successful we can be.

  81. Ts this another scare story?

    Fuel risk
    While fuel shortages are not predicted or expected in #########, a fuel cell has been established to
    focus on critical services with high vehicle dependency/fuel consumption.

    1. A fuel cell contains…………………….fuel

      Perhaps they mean a Committee to focus on critical services with high vehicle dependency/fuel consumption

      MPs driving to and from their homes (whilst claiming London lodging allowance and teavelling expenses ) would be high on the list

      As would Ecoloons jet setting from one Eco demo to the next

      YO T_B

        2. We are just 20 miles(ish) South of Alicante, where have been for the last 3 Years

          Today is the coldest day since we got here 11 deg C outside

          We are due rain tonight, like what devastated this area 5 weeks ago.

          Let us hope it misses us

    2. Why would there be a fuel shortage? UK doesn’t import fuel from Europe. Electricity, yes, fuel – no.

    1. Of course he fell there, he tripped over the demned plaque

      PS Colours are held every morning on every surfaced commissioned ship/shore establishment at 0800

    2. Endgame had the enemy defeated. As the conquerer here is the EU and the Left, perhaps if they’re finally defeated by patriots so much the better.

      Apocalypse now was a rogue colonel fighting a war against an enemy his own government wouldn’t sanction the death of, so really, Kurz is the hero.

      Groundhog day had Bill Murray’s character learning from his mistakes.

      Thus.. none fo the above. It’s far more Bachelor Party or, more appropriately, the sodding money pit. Useless wonkers achieving nothing, fighting one another for their own petty egos.

  84. My Story.

    Caps of mist on mountains high,
    Dark grey clouds that scud the sky,
    Raindrops fall, pitter patter,
    Little children, chitter chatter.

    A school bus, steamy and full,
    On it’s way to Pantglas School.
    Excited talk, the school holiday,
    Time for fun and time for play.

    Off the bus, run up the hill,
    Running off the Autumn chill.
    Into school, class mates we see,
    Running round, young and free.

    Raincoats off in cloakroom hung,
    Hall assembly, hymns are sung.
    Back to class, an open book,
    A drawing with a wintry look.

    Rushing, roaring, rumbling noise,
    Whimpers of frightened girls and boys.
    Shaking ground and cracking walls,
    Loads of bricks and masonry fall.

    Plumes of dust gently blow,
    Tonnes of slurry slowly flow.
    Lights on long flexes dance and sway,
    Outside the door is dark and grey.

    Then SILENCE …..

    Miss Taylor – teacher – kind and calm,
    Her voice a gently, soothing balm.
    ‘Get under your desks and safely stay’,
    Some children cry, some start to pray.
    Our classroom door blocked by rubble,
    With no escape, we fear trouble.

    Then at the window, the caretakers face appears,
    He sees the children, some are in tears.
    ‘Are you alright ‘ he shouts,
    Miss Taylor says ‘Yes, but we cannot get out ‘

    Some minutes pass by in worry and fear,
    Then the doorway begins to clear.
    There, the caretaker stands,
    Having cleared the way with his bare hands.

    Over debris we escape in an orderly line,
    Into a day now dry and fine.
    In the school yard, there’s worry and fears,
    Children run aimlessly, some are in tears.

    Lorna is there, covered in dirt,
    Missing a shoe and black on her skirt.
    Her brother Tommy she is trying to find,
    But, she still has the time to be kind.
    ‘It’s not safe here, go home now,
    Run very fast, don’t be slow’.

    I take her advice, my little feet fly,
    As I make my way home, I start to cry.
    I think a plane has crashed out of the sky,
    I’ve never really understood why.

    I reach my front door and bang and shout,
    ‘Mam, Mam, please go get them out ‘,
    She opens the door to my pleading cries,
    A look of concern and surprise.

    She holds me to her, close and tight,
    Reassuring me it will be alright.
    She has no idea what the day will unfold,
    The harrowing stories that will be told.

    With other mothers off to the school she goes,
    What they will find there no one knows.
    They’re gone all day and into the night,
    All are heartbroken at the sight.

    The tragic story has spread,
    So many children are feared dead.
    The radio brings the news filled with sorrow,
    There will be no happiness tomorrow.

    Fifty years on, my stories never been told,
    And like other survivors I grow old.
    Many have never spoken of that day,
    The pain and sorrow that never goes away.

    And so, I try to lighten my heart,
    And these painful words impart.
    As the saying goes ‘ A problem shared ‘
    It helps to know you cared.

    Ros Bastow
    14th October 2016.

      1. Yo jtl

        It is one of those things, like JFK’a assassination, that you remember where you were and whatyou were doing, but not the date

  85. Spiked

    Treaties of this nature are only entered into by states that have

    been conquered or defeated. In Britain’s case, its political class has

    been defeated, at the ballot box by a public that voted in June 2016 to

    take back control. But rather than accept that power should return to

    the people, the UK’s Remain-dominated elite would prefer to be ruled by a

    foreign institution, the EU, than by a parliament accountable to its

    electors.

    And this won’t end with the transition period, either. Transition has

    always been about getting the UK used to supplicant status. Some

    commentators have noted with concern one aspect of this domination: that

    the European Court of Justice (ECJ) will be the ultimate decider of all

    issues that arise under the treaty. Outside of the colonial era,

    international treaties have invariably provided for dispute resolution

    by independent arbitration, rather than by a court that belongs to the

    other treaty party. As Dr Carl Baudenbacher, a Swiss lawyer who recently

    retired as president of the EFTA Court, said:

    ‘It is absolutely unbelievable that a country like the UK, which was

    the first country to accept independent courts, would subject itself to

    this.’ And Martin Howe QC, who chairs Lawyers for Britain, predicted

    that ‘we will have bitter cause to regret such concessions in future

    years as unpredictable and activist judgements come out from the ECJ,

    which the UK and our parliament will have no choice but to obey’.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/10/21/boriss-deal-wont-take-back-control/

    1. Mammoth order needed from Westminster for Stilton, Cheddar, Cheshire and Double Gloucester Cheeses and also for Brie and Camembert so that the politicians can become really fully contemptible and authentic cheese eating surrender monkeys.

  86. The Commons Speaker has refused a government request to hold a vote on its Brexit deal.
    John Bercow said a motion on the deal had already been brought before MPs on Saturday, and it would be “repetitive and disorderly” to debate it ag    ain.

    2. Any objections are simply met with a very flowery and verbose response which boils down to ‘the rules are whatever I say they are, I’m right and you’re wrong and if you don’t like it you can lump it!’

    3. To be fair, nobody really wants Boris’s deal, he has done Brexit a big favour and stopped what we thought were honourable Leave politicians from demeaning their reputations by supporting it.

  88. John Bercow says there will be no debate today on the
    deal as “it’ll be disruptive ” .

  90. ‘Extra time needed’ for assembly and Scottish Parliament Brexit deal vote

    Brexit must be extended so the Welsh Assembly and Scottish Parliament can scrutinise Boris Johnson’s withdrawal deal, the first ministers of Wales and Scotland have said.
    Both places will need to vote on a law to implement the deal – Mark Drakeford and Nicola Sturgeon say 10 weeks is not enough to consider the legislation.

    2. Why

      They are part of the ‘UK’ Parliament.

      If this goes ahead, we must have an English Parliament, like their talking shops.

      I really despair

  91. Bercow is happy. I don’t understand much of what is going on at the moment, but I’m sure the Guardian and the BBC will tell me tomorrow.

  92. Parliament is “Working as if it is working” i.e. talking about procedure and therefore avoiding dealing with a difficult issue.

  93. I have consulted with Mrs Miller and she has advised me that it would not be appropriate to debate it The request is therefore Refused

  96. Afternoon, Nottlers. Our democracy is beyond being imperilled; it’s clinging on to life by a thread which remainiacs are determined to sever. A plague on all their houses!

    1. They deserve nothing less than the Blackford Death, driven mad by the unending drone on and on and on and on and on and on and on….

    2. The really weird thing is I don’t want Johnson’s so called “Deal” to be approved so blocking debate is a good thing.

      On the other hand Mr Squeaker made it perfectly clear that as this was a new session of Parliament he would allow a motion to be put forward again proposing a 2nd Referendum (Such a motion was defeated in the last session).

      1. They will stop at nothing to overturn the result of the vote. They hold the people in contempt. If the Civil War was the King against Parliament, this time round it will be Parliament against the People.

    2. Tony – Stephen Barclay is doing a good job in the absence of the PM. He has sorted out K Clarke, Jo Swinson, I Blackford and others in the 15 minutes I have been watching. S Barclay is working hard. Bercow lounges in his seat with a smile on his face.

  100. A General election is the only answer.

    1. Conservatives deselect all remainers and form an electoral pact with TBP and go for a proper WTO Brexit.

    2, The other parties can make their own electoral pacts if they wish to do so promising to stay in the EU.

    3. All prospective parliamentary candidates must pledge to support the result of the election. Those who are elected who do not support the result shall be immediately imprisoned.

    4. The voters should accept the result and try to behave better than our foul politicians.

    Can anybody suggest a better way to proceed?

    3. Only one tiny fly in the ointment Richard. The Conservatives haven’t worked out that the May move (Vote Conservative if you want to leave the EU) isn’t going to work again so by fielding candidates in every un- winnable seats they will split the Leave Vote hoping to knock TBP out of the game for good even if it means facing 5 years in opposition….:-((

      1. So if May’s ‘deal’ is surrender and Boris’s ‘deal’ is capitulation and staying in the EU is a disgusting insult to the British voters who voted for Brexit then what to do?

        Araminta has suggested blowing up the Houses of Parliament. Is there a less explosive solution that you can think of or is the Minty Method the only method?

        1. “To be or not to be that is the question? Whether tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune or to take up arms gainst a sea of troubles and thus by opposing them end them”?

    4. Best would be a bit of revisionist history, determining that John Major acted illegally when he signed Britain up for the EU. That way the whole EU adventure could be declared null and void. And Major could be appropriately dealt with. A win-win.

      1. Better still go back to 1972. Released papers have shown that Heath took us into the Common Market on a lie (no loss of sovereignty).

      2. Heath started it but Major helped turn the Common Market into the EU with the Maastricht Treaty on which the promised referendum never materialised.

        1. IIRC, other countries were holding referenda before making their Maastricht decision. I’m convinced Major did not do that as he knew that turning over sovereignty would be rejected. He only got it through Parliament on the third vote after saying if Tory MP’s did not support him, he would call a GE – which the pundits reckoned the Tories would lose. The MP’s then voted to keep their jobs, rather than face defeat.

          1. Nothing changes – MPs still value their salaries more than their country. Despicable scum.

          2. The Danes had a referendum and voted No. They got the treaty anyway. Sound familiar? It’s the way the EU has always worked.

    5. So can TBP form a government and serve it’s constituencies
      on more then one issue. Is it a fully functioning party atm?

      The Conservative Party cannot compromise the electorate by puppy walking

      What if the hard Left Trots Labour form a coalition with the SNP instead

      Yes all politicians and all voters must accept the democratic vote .

  101. NI politicians’ bid to halt law changes fails

    A last ditch attempt at the Stormont assembly to stop abortion law changes in Northern Ireland has failed, with the law set to change at midnight.
    Unionist parties, who oppose the upcoming liberalisation, triggered the assembly’s recall with a petition.
    But politicians were told the assembly could not do any business until a speaker was elected with cross-community backing.
    That became impossible when the nationalist SDLP left the chamber.

    1. You have to wonder why anyone wants to keep NI in the kingdom. They are like argumentative children – when they are not throwing bombs, that is. Tie a big ribbon round the place and give it to Varadkar as a Christmas present. I was working in London back when the IRA were very active. Chuck ’em out and let them get on with killing each other was then a very popular saloon bar solution.

    2. And that shows the impossibility of dealing with NI in Johnson’s agreement and why we should just leave the EU with a clean break.

  102. I’m going to lose all my cares tonight by watching Sheffield United give Arsenal the runaround (hopefullly) tonight and make that Sean actor (Sharpe) happy.

  103. We could just let the President of our Parliament deal with it. Yes, Bercow has been promoted, by the French Press.

    “Royaume-Uni : le président du Parlement refuse un nouveau vote sur l’accord de Brexit.”
    https://www.lefigaro.fr/international/accord-sur-le-brexit-et-maintenant-20191017?utm_source=CRM&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=%5B20191021_NL_ALERTESINFOS%5D&mediego_euid=%5B8609845%5D&een=24114703173b957b2409c240fd1cc65d&seen=6&m_i=jby9W8%2Bk8E76L95w83mffPcXjtOfKGaFmw7el%2Bsi2R1Aa%2BWjBgnoqQh_Gg9oSapeQWGS6CmQXttp3Zo98Vg5rhAIddTlo9cmj5

  105. UK population expected to pass 70 million by 2031. Mon 21 Oct 2019.

    The UK population is projected to exceed 70 million by mid-2031, according to the Office for National Statistics.

    In the next decade, the population is expected to increase by 3 million, from an estimated 66.4 million in mid-2018 to 69.4 million in mid-2028.

    Well if they are as Fake as every other official statistic in the UK it will be getting pretty crowded by then. But judging by my rate of physical decline I shall not be here!

    Thank God!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/21/uk-population-expected-to-pass-70-million-by-2031

    1. I wonder if any of those 3 million new people will be able to speak English, or if they will only have one of the many languages from the Middle East.

      They might just give them a few useful phrases such as “On your knees” or “I’m taking your house.”

        1. Oh, without a doubt they are not reporting the real figures. One of the directors of a leading supermarket has had years of experience of watching stock flows, and has daily figures on what is being sold and where. He was on the news a few months ago and said that the amount of food being sold across the country has risen dramatically over the past years, far more than the population figures could account for.

          He said that unless families were deliberately buying lots of excess food just to throw it away, then the population in the United Kingdom was already over 70 million.

          1. It could partially account for the obesity epidemic though – if families are reluctant to throw food away (and I know they do chuck stuff out instead of using it past the “best before” dates) then they are eating far too much.

          2. Yes, that was put to him in the interview, but he said no. It was “normal” food that had shot up while the “unhealthy junk food” was rising at a slower rate. Even if people were force feeding themselves it could not nearly account for the rise in food sales over the past years. There was also increased demand for non-food family items that had also risen much faster than a gentle rise in population could account for.

            I don’t normally “tune in” on a lot of mundane news stories, but that one did stick out, so I rewound it to absorb what he was saying. 🙂

            (Edit – sometimes I save the particularly informative news stories and “keep” them, but this is not one of them on my list. I do remember him saying that obesity could account for some of the rise, but only a small part of the numbers. I can see his point because even over-eaters have got to stop their calorie intake at some point or we would have countless 100,000’s of people unable to leave their beds.

            6 million extra people requiring food and supplies consistently, week after week, would account for the increased sales figures that he was seeing over the years. But he would have access to all of the graphs and spreadsheets, and they did not show them on TV.)

      1. Yes these figures assume an extension of the present period of relative peace and calm which bearing in mind the current political fragmentation on almost every front seems unlikely!

      3. It’s had it’s name changed to climate change,
        acknowledge the fact the climate does indeed change
        but they don’t mention the fact it’s been doing so since
        the beginning of time without any human influence.
        Surprised really, why can’t we get the blame for the extinction
        of the dinosaurs instead of a change of weather from
        hot to cold or the fact that Co2 was at its highest during the
        Jurassic period or even the fact we should be blamed
        for Greenland being named such or that London froze
        during August in the medieval periods.

        1. The brains of one the dionosaurs has just been released from cold storage and fitted in to the heads of Ecoloons.

          Yes, they are so thick they share one brain

        2. The small granite cliff below my house bears the marks of a glacier sliding by. There ain’t no glacier there now. Ergo, climate must have changed. Wonder what caused it? All those coal-fired power stations and 4×4 cars! I wonder why there aren’t any fossils of these?

    3. I see what you mean, but I think he’s less of a shîte than Bercow – mind you, so are most things!

  108. With lab blocking boris and his deal can we now consider lab to be pro English / GB and fighting the peoples corner ?
    Are lab out to become the new brexit group ?

    1. I wonder why the ”Bad Chaps” have decided it’s a good idea to give ”massive powers” (according to John Redwood) to the European Commission over Britain during the extendable implementation period ?

      It all looks mighty strange and mighty suspicious, especially as G S has open door access to the Commission………………….

      This means, in effect, that G S might soon be controlling Britain, if he doesn’t do so already.

      How do you feel about that ?

    2. You could not get today’s US politicians to agree to the current US constitution if they had an option to come up with a new one. Too many restrictions on “good guy” politicians, like separation of powers, the Emoluments Clause, impeachment, states’ rights, press freedom, term limits, etc.

  111. To my mind the lab/lib/con coalition current politico’s / members / voters over the last two decades especially have without a shadow of doubt let old Nellie down on his day, let us keep that in mind, shall we.

    1. Sorry big silver back but Lib/ Lab/ Con is very out dated and
      not even relevant. Labour have gone seriously hard left,
      Trotsky and IRA supporting and you forgot to actually mention
      The SNP their preferred hard Left partners in lunacy and the
      3rd largest party in Parliament. The Lib Dems are flying alone
      these days and will avoid all coalitions from now on.

      1. Evening A,
        They are very relevant still as a joint basis of treachery sad to say, all completely steeped in it major ,b liar, cameron ( the wretch) may, cable, swinson as a point of fact the lib/dems are the most honest of the political rodents having never professed to be other that pro eu.
        Been evident from the 25 / 6 / 2016 that treachery was afoot and the may leadership farce & 9 month delay confirmed it.
        There ain’t NO innocents in parliament.

  112. Bercow wasn’t watching Marr or the rugby on Sunday morning, he was playing short tennis instead

    1. We live in a big world, but for some strange reason all Western Leaders appear to follow the same self harming progressive globalist agenda, well apart from Trump. If it is happening in Canada, it will here very soon

      1. “Nineteen Eighty Four” was not an instruction manual.
        Unless you are Stalin, Mao or Jeremy Corbyn.

    2. He already controls the main stream media through some well positioned bribes (sorry, government programs supporting the media). Not much point doing that if social media is still free.

  117. Goodnight, everyone. I’m having an early night to catch up on my sleep after last night’s disturbances.

      1. 12 pounders were heavy metal for land armies,ships with 24/32 pounders were in a different league

      2. Since the modern equivalent is a “boomer”, that’s probably still true. The big ones carried either 20 (USSR) or 24 (USA) missiles with H bomb warheads – enough to eliminate a country or so. And they both had fleets of them.

        2. Sir Humphrey Appleby: “Polaris is a ramshackle old system. With Trident we could obliterate the whole of Eastern Europe!”

        1. It was the descriptions of “squaring the T” that horrified me.
          Cannon balls shot through the rear of an enemy ship, raking an entire deck. Shattering guns, beams, stanchions and sending splinters and metal everywhere.

          1. Best not to think about what modern weaponry can do. Even the humble rifle can near enough take your arm off, and even a non fatal hit, so to speak can kill due to the shockwaves it sends through the body. The days of neat round holes are long gone – there might be a small entry would but the exit wounds are huge.

          2. .556mm is designed tp wound not to kill,the civil war calibres of .69inch minie balls did more damage

          3. You would never know that. The US nutter’s weapon of choice for mass killings is the AR15, used in Vegas and other places. If they only wounded, an awful lot of dead people would still be alive today. Same goes for the M16’s used in ‘Nam.

        2. As a Hornblower fan then you should try this. https://maryrose.org/

          It left me with jelly legs. Walking through the ship with the full on sensory overload made me feel sea sick.

          Definitely recommend if you are in the area.

          I’ll even buy you lunch at Loch Fyne. Set menu …mind !…. :o)

      2. I loved the books,but the “lesser of two weevils” joke deserved the widest possible audience {:^))

  119. Whenever I post on a site I pop by occasionally,
    someone always instantly says ” Thank you for popping by ”
    and whatever I post after that for the very few moments I am
    there this person will instantaneously upvote me within seconds,
    I always know the first notification will be from that person.
    Hmm, may be I am tired and someone is just being polite…

  120. Off topic and not that it matters in the great scheme of things, but has anyone else “lost” large numbers of up votes?

    For some reason ~5,000 of mine have disappeared.

      1. So do I, for most things, but if he was responsible that would be several posters on minus numbers!

        1. I know you both banter but you like each other really……..don’t you?

          After all. He is your elder and better. So he tells me. :o)

          1. He’s deluded, the MR wants to lock him away. Who can blame her?

            We exchange the odd (literally) e-mail.

            Don’t tell him this, but I actually like the guy, I’ve not met him but we’re on a similar wavelength on a lot of topics.

          6. I was at the Harold Pinter Theatre this week. And in the Box just a few feet away was Richard Wilson.

    2. Yo sos

      #metoo

      I posted the following on Thursday 3rd October

      “zxcv3 Araminta Smade 19 days ago
      I remember Hatman’s warning about an autobot that removed upvotes but didn’t pay much attention to the specifics. Hatman thought that the objective of the autobot was to wither the overall upvote count of anyone suspected of being ‘right wing’ and, over the long term, curtail their credibility on any site they visited. Truly pathetic.

      I visited one of Hatman’s sites and thereafter noticed that my upvote total went down by anything between 30 to 80 each time I posted on NoTTL. A week or two later, I ran CCleaner and the autobot disappeared.

      Geoff’s observations just below seem to be a more plausible explanation of Disqus’ current inability to count proper.”

      I didn’t post anything on NoTTL between Monday and Friday last week but six items on Saturday (which show a total of 38 upticks). My aggregate went down by about 300. I ran CCleaner again but it doesn’t seem to have got rid of the autobot this time. I have just logged in again and my uptick total has gone down by roughly another 400. Curiouser and curiouser.

      1. From the comments that I have seen others make over the past 6+ months (yes the bot has been around for quite a while) the program will be independent of your computer. Some of those affected are almost “bulletproof” when it comes to malware, so it is running elsewhere. I don’t think it depends on you making comments either, as some scores are down in the negative millions after the bot has been running for a while.

        Obviously you need a mod to get the details on your account and what the upvote number is when it goes negative, as it just shows as 0 to most people.

          1. Phizzee – that is not what I meant. No the mods here cannot do anything to stop it, but they can tell you what your negative score is after it drops below 0. There is a list of stats on each of our accounts that are hidden from us, including the number of spam reports, and your “reputation score” which is what triggers the auto-block on all Disqus sites. I’ve got an old listing of mine somewhere… If I can find it I’ll show you the information that is displayed.

            Edit – Yes found it. This was some of the information on my account just after I was “fake spammed” into silence with this account over a year ago:

            User Meredith Mckay :
            Realms Link: Meredith Mckay
            AuthorID:
            Rep: -0.100767
            Posts: 1206
            Approved: 1053 (87.31 %)
            Flagged: 0 (0.00 %)
            Spam: 108 (8.96 %)
            SpamWarning: This account may have been targeted with artificial spam reports.
            Joined: Thu, 07-09-2017
            Power Contributor (AllStar): False
            Closed: False
            Forums With Posts: 5
            Forums Followed: 5
            Followers: 9
            Followings: 0

            There – you can see the Reputation score had just dropped below zero, with 108 fake spam reports. I had 3 of the trolls “following” my account and labelling every comment as spam. What an effort to make…

            I just made another account when this one went down. 🙂

      2. My first thoughts are that anything can be done with software.

        However, for it to affect aggregate totals or count tick on Discus then it must be done either in collusion with the platform operator, or through unauthorised access (i.e. the platform has been hacked).

        Your browser keeps a history so knows where you have been. A bot installed on your system could read that and send the results somewhere else and do something with it.

        Another good reason for keeping your security applications up to date and doing regular virus/bot checks and clean-ups.

        Without knowing the specifics of this autobot/application it is difficult to know further.

    4. I have seen this happening with others. Someone (99.9% of the time a sad lefty) has targeted your account with a bot. Your vote will keep dropping until it hits zero. Then they will hit you with a few “fake spam” reports which will trigger the auto-block command on disqus. It should have no effect on you here, but it means that if you try to leave comments on any disqus channel that has not “whitelisted” you, every comment you make will go to “pending” before it appears. It will need to be approved by that sites moderators.

      It is a form of censorship used by sad sacks on the left. They managed to block my account with 120 fake spam reports to overcome my upvotes. These days they use a bot to strip your votes away so that it only takes 1. There was a lady whose vote count was down to -10 million because the bot just keeps on going. She was losing 10,000 a day.

      1. And they blame the Russians for hacking when it is our own home grown deluded fuckwits doing it.

        1. It is done by people who cannot win an argument and whose lives are so empty that doing this makes them feel as if they have some impact on the world. They shake with imagined power as they think “This will show them!” It is quite tragic.

          It distracts them from wondering why nobody likes them in the real world apart from other lefties. 🙂

          2. LOL – I don’t know Bill Jackson that well. I skip past his comments now ever since I realised that he didn’t know what he was talking about. 🙂

          5. I have just noticed – you have lost another 50 votes in the last 15 minutes, so that is a bot.

            Ahh well. The people who like you won’t care, and the ones who judge you by vote numbers don’t matter. 🙂

          7. At least you know one thing – for someone to bother attacking your account in this way, you must have said something right. 🙂

          8. sosraboc – I don’t know if you’ll see this at this time of the night, but I’m off now and thought I’d let you know. I looked at how many upvotes you had when you first made your comment and it was 97,872. In the past 2 hours it has dropped to 97,733. So you have lost 139 votes in that time.

            At that rate you will be down to 0 votes in 1,406 hours, or 58 days. What a sad life these people lead. They cannot stop your words though. 🙂 Have a good night.

          9. Ho hum, what a bunch of clowns.

            It makes one wonder whether such bots could be used to change comments as well.

          3. In your particular case, I’m absolutey certain that you have no skills whatsoever. You will be a dole monkey feeding off the taxpayer.

      1. Scarily as true today as then. The 4th reich approaches – just those darned Brits trying to put a spanner in the works again.
        Goodnight.

    6. Should offer it to Ursula von der Leyen as her inaugural speech as the new Fuhrerin of Europe.

    8. ‘Just as a member of a family does not have the right to disturb everyone else’s peace’.

      What a joke.

      My eldest sister who happens to be a bastard has caused utter mayhem in my family. My other sister only realised what i had been saying for years was true when the bitch stole my Fathers’ dead body. I’m not joking.

      1. i’m quite certain the DT will be dosing it several times before she heads to Gateshead on Thursday, after which Dr. Daughter will be continuing the process.

        1. No disrespect intended and it’s likely the pic but i would flip it over before feeding it with the booze.

      1. A ‘Full Tot’ (one eighth of a pint) of Neaters

        Or are you grogging, mixing it with water?

        1. Used to be made from Woods 100 and made by the licensee of the Lord Nelson, Burnham Thorpe. His Christian name was Les but I’ve forgotten his surname. I used to sell him about 60 cases a year and he sold it all over the world.

  128. Good afternoon all. I am going to make a comment which I strongly suspect will not obtain any upvotes, and may indeed lead to me being banned from this August publication, but nonetheless, here goes…(deep breath).

    I am coming round to the idea of a second referendum. I know, I know, it would be gerry-mandered in favour of Remain. But my reasoning is this. The Deal which the Government is proposing is, in my opinion, so far from the clean-break Brexit that we were promised that I do not believe that Parliament should be able to vote it into law, without a fresh mandate to do so. Deal or No Deal, we must leave the EU, but not like this. We need a say.

    And yes, we also need a General Election to clear out parliament and bring true democracy back to our country. But once this internationally-binding Treaty is signed between the EU and UK Governments, even a Brexit-Party Government would not be able to undo it. Before it is signed, we need to have a say on whether this abject surrender treaty is ‘barely tolerable’ or not.

    I am ducking under the table as I post this!

    1. I disagree with a new referendum, this deal is so dreadful that I take the view it would be better to withdraw article 50, have a general election that hopefully gives a leave landslide and then reinstate Articlle 50, but without a transition period.

      1. There will be no Article 50 to reinstate. The Lisbon Treaty is self-amending and they won’t make the same mistake twice. Out now or dead in a ditch.

      2. How could you trust whomever you vote in?
        Would a manifesto of a no deal Brexit be believable?
        The last Tory manifesto lasted about 3 days after the election when it was binned completely.

          1. Working about 70 hours a week atm. Don’t have much time to hang out here. I never went away, just lacking time.

        1. Do you understand anything that you read?

          It would be after a GE, not for a GE.

          What is to stop any government from so doing?

          The ECJ might try to stop it, but if that happens a Leave Government should tell them to get lost.

    2. Have an uptick anyway! Our electoral system is so corrupted that without major reform, which is not in the interests of the powers that be, we will always get the government they want us to have. Nothing short of war or natural disaster looks likely to change that – but I hope I’m wrong.

    3. Boris’s deal is no where near as bad as many make out and I have gone though it in detail most have not even read it, The chances of getting a No deal through with it a General election is all but zero

          2. 99. The Parties welcome close cooperation in Union-led crisis management missions and
            operations, both civilian and military. The future relationship should therefore enable the
            United Kingdom to participate on a case by case basis in CSDP missions and operations
            through a Framework Participation Agreement. Such an agreement would be without
            prejudice to the decision-making autonomy of the Union or the sovereignty of the United
            Kingdom,             and the United Kingdom will maintain the right to determine how it would
            respond to any invitation or option to participate in operations or missions.

          3. I refer you to the scene in the Battle of Britain film where the British Ambassador in Switzerland tells the German (ie N@i) representative that experience has shown that Herr H’s guarantees guarantee precisely nothing.

          4. I refer you to the scene in the Battle of Britain film where the British Ambassador in Switzerland tells the German (ie N@i) representative that experience has shown that Herr H’s guarantees guarantee precisely nothing.

          5. Alas, if it doesn’t fit with his agenda he claims it’s incorrect. In fact, the new “deal” is simply May’s surrender document with the odd, insignificant, tweak. Lipstick on a pig. We are not out if the ECJ has any jurisdiction over us and we cannot exclude the EU from our territorial waters or have control over our agriculture and its subsidies.

          6. I have read the document you clearly have not. Give me the page numbers and relevant clauses of the WA that states what is said in that document

          10. Oddly enough, I think Johnson got more concessions than I would have expected. That doesn’t change the fact that it’s a bad deal for the UK.

          11. What he got was the PD re-opened and a few things that were in the WA shifted. It’s 95% the same as May’s WA according to a leading QC (but, of course, Jill Backson knows better).

          12. 99. The Parties welcome close cooperation in Union-led crisis management missions and
            operations, both civilian and military. The future relationship should therefore enable the
            United Kingdom to participate on a case by case basis in CSDP missions and operations
            through a Framework Participation Agreement. Such an agreement would be without
            prejudice to the decision-making autonomy of the Union or the sovereignty of the United
            Kingdom,             and the United Kingdom will maintain the right to determine how it would
            respond to any invitation or option to participate in operations or missions.

          13. And your point is?

            Just why should that even have to be put into such an agreement?

            The mere fact that it is there tells you that the EU wants control over UK forces.

          15. I’m starting to believe that you really are congenitally stupid.

            Why should that even be in the agreement?

            We should have full control over our armed forces without any need for that to be put into the EU’s deal.

          16. It was the usual EU 11th hour stuff; in the hope that the electorate would swallow it.

            The real trick was the mirage of us being able to walk away after the new transition period, ignoring the ECJ elements.

        2. Most of that is incorrect. On International agreements we have signed up to of course we are bound by them

          1. If you allege that it is incorrect, please show how you think it is incorrect, and back up your view.

            Re. international agreements – it is not a good idea, but the can, and have been broken. Eg. USA…

      2. My preference would be: extend article 50, GE, Boris/Farage alliance, get a thumping Leave majority, end the need to find a deal which is acceptable to the EU and Remain-heavy Parliament and get a proper Brexit. Really, the last thing I want is another referendum, but from the analysis I have read, the deal is pretty much 95% of May’s awful Treaty. It is not Brexit, and I don’t think the Government should be allowed to sign it off without us having a say.

        2. Good evening JK

          You and I have clearly come to the same conclusions about this. I can see that you are a very sensible and intelligent chap!

      3. It is a Treaty recognised as legal internationally. If the UK Government is conned into accepting it, the ECJ will have complete supremacy over the UK judiciary, anything we then try to implement as an independent country can just be judged as illegal.

      4. If you “have gone through it in detail” you need to go to Specsavers. Just because it is better than May’s catastrophe, does not mean that it gives us any real freedom from the diktats of EU(in the short term) and the ECJ (in the long term). We are leaving a disgusting empire-building of a Fourth Reich mentality on the continent.

        We neither need their permission, not their terms, to leave. The only thing we (and they) need is co-operation on present liabilities (of which they owe more to us than we to them, legally) and future trade arrangements. It’s time for no more Mr Nice Guy – tell them to swivel.

    4. Trouble is, JK, they will rig the questions (BRINO or Remain). They’ve learned their lesson. I am totally against letting another referendum take place at least until the first one has been properly implemented. Then the choice can be stay out or rejoin.

      1. There’s the rub. A second referendum will not give a choice between WTO Brexit or Remain – it would will give a choice between Remain or humiliating BRINO.

        I suspect that many who really want a clean break would prefer Remain to BRINO which is why they will be determined to rig any referendum. As I keep saying the only solution I can see is a general election based on electoral pacts.

        It is very obvious why the remainers do not want a general election but do want a referendum with a rigged question. We are not so stupid as to not be able to see this.

    6. JK,
      My up vote is for you and your right to say what you have said although I disagree, a second referendum means as soon as the first vote enters the ballot box we, as a nation can no longer claim to be a country of democracy.
      It is also the start of best out of three,five, seven, recurring.
      General Election shed the political dross by boycotting the lab/lib/con pro eu coalition completely, country before party, for this once.
      Anyone kissing a lib/lab/con candidate within the ballot booth rings a bell outside positioned next to the tar & feathers, way to go, or condemn these Isles to a future of suffering.

    7. You are brave.

      I guess it would be similar to the winner of the cup final, or rugby , or cricket , athletics , any competition , saying unfair .. re run it .

      I bet if we have a GE , the same will apply , criminals involved with the election .. you can bet your bottom dollar they are gearing up to something really crooked . I expect postal votes are already waiting to be counted .. all the fraud in the world will try to destabilise us .. Imagine that.. ?

    8. Nigel Farage says don’t pass this bad deal, we need an extension and a GE. I don’t disagree.

    9. Granted we need a GE but … now do we get one, the HoC won’t let us. The WA is as awful as it can be and I hope is voted down again. A second referendum may come about but … what will be the question?
      Let’s face it Brexit is finished. If we get it at all it will be BRINO and we will be paying forever for the privilege.

    10. Should be 3 choices:

      1. Stay in the EU

      2. Accept a withdrawal agreement, which still ties the UK into most EU rulings

      3. Leave with no deal, and no ties to the EU

      1. We have already rejected no, 1. The other two (deal or no deal) would just about be acceptable if one could have any confidence whatsoever that the result would be implemented if there were a majority for 3.

      2. This three choice idea for a referendum has been debated to death and the outcome is always the same i.e. referendums are binary choice in the UK. Of course, with the Electoral Commission we have currently, precedent might not count for much.

    11. I think most people’s reservations (at least on this blog) regarding a second referendum is that it will ask the wrong questions. And we know what they would be.

    12. I totally disagree as we know that it will either be fiddled or the voters will give the ‘wrong’ answer and it will still be fiddled.
      But as we are not Vegan Transgender Fascists, we respect that people are allowed to hold different opinions.

    1. Goodnight Mr Viking,
      sleep well and watch those Nordic bed bugs 😉

      I might follow you soon it’s been a tiring day .

  130. I’ll leave you with this thought:

    “At the eleventh hour there is always a squad of soldiers that have saved civilisation.”

    A demain

  131. Night All

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/37f49bc554df45ab94d93129721095adda85abdeea15e96bffdbe30a88df6de0.gif

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7cce901a406615b1546930aa6467d6857430194a5562a3e78ca361d4ca2f5007.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f01dd38692015d6181ad96c7d0cfe8f50f3c67b34c6da18c6fffc76260657c4a.jpg

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/79c42daa96275bed88b78bb75febef9598e913654724c91e294d76b78370df70.gif

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/80935ed715bab3893d52b2079474df177e88a0e8c5357fc8e78e2eca0cffbc0d.gif

    1. A shame that Hislop and Merton don’t use that as material for their £20,000 each appearance fee on a show that was once entertaining.

      1. Hislop and Hague have a lot in common. Quite apart for both being small and bald they both used to be witty and clever. Now Hislop is useless as a satirist as he is no longer either impartial or funny and Hague is useless as a politician because he has been lobotomised and no longer has a brain.

      2. Like his Uncle Andrew married Fergie while on the rebound from Koo Stark.
        A lass who, whatever else she may have done that met with disapproval, did not go in for kiss’n’tell.

    2. “that’s OK Dahling, I’ve found us a lovely mud hut where we can settle down and breed like Africans”

      “WHAT??????”

        1. I often wondered about the phrase ‘Roger, over and out’… thank you for enlightening me.

          5. Roger just means the message has been received and understood. Over passes the transmission to the other party and Out, obviously, means the station is shutting down.

  134. Have they not shot themselves in the foot. The MP’s will not vote on it until it is put into law. This means by default it becomes the law and an extension becomes irrelevant. It should made clear that it is the legal text as agreed by the EU that is being approved and nothing else

    Am I missing something here ?

    The Commons Speaker has refused a government request to hold a “yes” or “no” vote on its Brexit deal.
    John Bercow said a motion on the deal had been brought before MPs on Saturday, and it would be “repetitive and disorderly” to debate it again.
    Saturday’s sitting saw MPs vote to withhold approval of Boris Johnson’s deal until it has been passed into law.

      1. Clearly the MP’s cannot debated it again as the Speaker has spoken and said it has already been debated so it should pass straight in to law

      1. But they in effected approved it on Saturday and the speaker said there can be no further debate as it would be repetitive and disorderly

          2. They didn’t approve the WA, if they had we would be out under it’s ghastly conditions.

          3. So if they did not Bercow is wrong and he should have allowed today’s vote bit the Speaker is a sort of umpire and he says it was debated and voted on so it is just a rubber stamp now to put it into law

    3. ...it would be “repetitive and disorderly” to debate it again although apparently it wasn’t repetitive and disorderly to vote 3 times on May’s WA?????

    1. I wish I were like you, Ethul. I find it hard to go to bed at night, yet find it even harder to get out of bed in the morning! Sleep well!

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