Saturday 28 November: People mind being forbidden to meet friends and family under a tier system very like lockdown

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its comments facility (now reinstated, but not as good as ours),
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Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/11/28/letterspeople-mind-forbidden-meet-friends-family-tier-system/

864 thoughts on “Saturday 28 November: People mind being forbidden to meet friends and family under a tier system very like lockdown”

  2. Government ready for 100 per cent increase in Hong Kong citizens coming to UK. 28 November 2020.

    The Government is preparing for a 100 per cent increase in the number of Hong Kong citizens coming to Britain after Boris Johnson offered up to three million residents sanctuary.

    The Prime Minister said in July that Hong Kong’s freedoms were being violated by a new security law and those affected would be offered the chance to settle in the UK and ultimately apply for citizenship.

    The Foreign Office estimated that 200,000 people would move from Hong Kong to the UK, but a leaked internal briefing paper warned of a “rapid rise in the issue of British National (Overseas) passports since June”.

    TOP COMMENT AFTER DISCOUNTING 77 BRIGADE POSTS

    Michael Smith. 27 Nov 2020 8:58PM.

    Hang on just a moment, freedoms are being violated here in the UK. They won’t see any difference. Brutal police, tyrranical laws, huge fines, who would want to live here.

    Mr Smith is correct. They would be jumping from the Wok into the fire. There is no difference of principle between the People’s Republic of China and the Government of the UK!!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/11/27/government-prepares-give-three-million-hong-kong-citizens-sanctuary/

    1. mng. Might sound an odd point, but Hong Kong was handed back to China in 1997, it has nothing to do with UK Govt. BNO’s were told before UK Govt handed back HK to China they would be given passports, but no voting rights in UK, [a political fudge to keep Maggie happy at the thought of the old Empire had gone]. M Smith’s post is valid as far as it goes. The question is, as they knew what was coming, why had BNOs not left earlier?

      1. Morning Bill. We have no obligation to the people of Hong Kong but it provides a useful filip to the Soros faction who wish to turn the UK into multicultural Paradise!

        1. they’re better off staying in the “wok”, which is probably more truthful than the Colonial Office’s figures from their “non-leaked” paper

      2. ‘Morning AWK, China was supposed to honour an agreement that Hong Kong would be administered exactly as it was under Britain, for a period of 50 years from 1997.

        As per usual Communists just want it all their own way – or I dispose of you.

        1. NTN aftn here. That was actually the failed legacy of Chris Patten. He wasn’t told of confidential letters exchanged between Hurd and Chinese Leaders codifying the Joint Declaration into Basic Law. Patten widened the difference further with extension of [the money franchise] and increased Human Rights. Patten announced this without telling the Chinese.

          The Chinese made it clear in ’94, upon handover this would all be revoked. The Chinese based this on the “Colonial hypocrisy” back to the Opium Wars that permatead upto handover. Pattern wanted to promote “liberlaism” and airbrush UK’s Colonilaism and seek an “honourable exit” [saving face]. Patten conjoured up an illusion of democracy for BNOs and wider MSM that would never be realised. And, in choosing to select confrontation with China over Joint Declaration in ’97, the Chinese did what they promised they would in ’94, implementing one system two countries.

          Given the above here is background to my Q to Ararminta earlier and given UK were told by the Chinese would do before handover, UK Govt’s got not grounds to complain or shout

    2. mng. Might sound an odd point, but Hong Kong was handed back to China in 1997, it has nothing to do with UK Govt. BNO’s were told before UK Govt handed back HK to China they would be given passports, but no voting rights in UK, [a political fudge to keep Maggie happy at the thought of the old Empire had gone]. M Smith’s post is valid as far as it goes. The question is, as they knew what was coming, why had BNOs not left earlier?

  3. Government ready for 100 per cent increase in Hong Kong citizens coming to UK. 28 November 2020.

    The Government is preparing for a 100 per cent increase in the number of Hong Kong citizens coming to Britain after Boris Johnson offered up to three million residents sanctuary.

    The Prime Minister said in July that Hong Kong’s freedoms were being violated by a new security law and those affected would be offered the chance to settle in the UK and ultimately apply for citizenship.

    The Foreign Office estimated that 200,000 people would move from Hong Kong to the UK, but a leaked internal briefing paper warned of a “rapid rise in the issue of British National (Overseas) passports since June”.

    TOP COMMENT AFTER DISCOUNTING 77 BRIGADE POSTS

    Michael Smith. 27 Nov 2020 8:58PM.

    Hang on just a moment, freedoms are being violated here in the UK. They won’t see any difference. Brutal police, tyrranical laws, huge fines, who would want to live here.

    Mr Smith is correct. They would be jumping from the Wok into the fire. There is no difference of principle between the People’s Republic of China and the Government of the UK!!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/11/27/government-prepares-give-three-million-hong-kong-citizens-sanctuary/

  4. Government ready for 100 per cent increase in Hong Kong citizens coming to UK. 28 November 2020.

    The Government is preparing for a 100 per cent increase in the number of Hong Kong citizens coming to Britain after Boris Johnson offered up to three million residents sanctuary.

    The Prime Minister said in July that Hong Kong’s freedoms were being violated by a new security law and those affected would be offered the chance to settle in the UK and ultimately apply for citizenship.

    The Foreign Office estimated that 200,000 people would move from Hong Kong to the UK, but a leaked internal briefing paper warned of a “rapid rise in the issue of British National (Overseas) passports since June”.

    TOP COMMENT AFTER DISCOUNTING 77 BRIGADE POSTS

    Michael Smith. 27 Nov 2020 8:58PM.

    Hang on just a moment, freedoms are being violated here in the UK. They won’t see any difference. Brutal police, tyrranical laws, huge fines, who would want to live here.

    Mr Smith is correct. They would be jumping from the Wok into the fire. There is no difference of principle between the People’s Republic of China and the Government of the UK!!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/11/27/government-prepares-give-three-million-hong-kong-citizens-sanctuary/

  6. Mng to those online and to follow later. 2 days of fragmented power [KPLC bless] and this part of the world also being used as the software guinea pig [M.O. and Google and fb planning to establish offices here].

    Viz vaccines here: US Gov’s CDC & W.H.O Reg Director [via US embassy in Gigiri] “claim” widespread COVID-19 vaccination campaigns in Africa will likely start mid-2021. that it might start providing African nations with vaccines to cover about 3% of populations.”

    CDC / W.H.O. further claim that to “achieve levels of herd immunity there is a need to vaccinate about 60% of the populations, meaning the continent will need to procure the funding to fill this gap. To reach this threshold, it needs about 1.5 billion doses of vaccines, with the understanding that each vaccinated person receives two doses. To pay for this, the continent needs to mobilize about $10 billion to $12 billion”

    Given Presidential elections campsigns will be formally, in full swing in Kenya and Uganda, and monies already “liberated” for the exercise, the corporate tin rattling by CDC / W.H.O. continues in order to justify their presence. Vaccinating the UN HQ in Gigiri, would be a good start

  8. ‘Morning, Peeps.

    As usual, Frederick Forsyth has a point:

    SIR – Fraser Nelson (Comment, November 27) says that Tory MPs clamouring for the departure of Boris Johnson “are a bit ungrateful”.

    Fact: Mr Johnson won the Brexit vote, the leadership vote (post Theresa May) and the election vote. But for nine months he has made a catastrophic mess of everything, and spectacularly of the Covid crisis.

    Our once-proud and prosperous country is broken, with his full connivance, on the ruinous predictions of a tiny coterie of ultra-pessimists. This is not leadership, mere capitulation.

    The Tories have an 80-seat majority in the House. They need not fear that a leader-change by the 1922 Committee will alter that. They have a clear choice – loyalty to country or to a patently failed panicker.

    Frederick Forsyth
    Beaconsfield, Buckinghamshire

  9. Morning all

    SIR – Tier 1 now covers such a tiny proportion of the population that we have effectively moved to a two-level arrangement.

    For most people an important freedom is to be able to socialise with friends and family, and this is restricted in both tiers. To allow outdoor socialising in Tier 2 in winter is hardly a meaningful concession.

    What we have is a minor tinkering with the lockdown of the last four weeks so that the Prime Minister can keep his promise of saying lockdown will be over on December 2. It won’t.

    Julian Gall

    Godalming, Surrey

    SIR – The French philosopher Pierre Teilhard de Chardin observed that “growing old is like being increasingly penalised for a crime you haven’t committed”. Am I the only one who feels similarly: that I’m being punished by the Government’s misguided “solution” to the Covid crisis?

    Veronica Timperley

    London W1

    Advertisement

    SIR – Helen Elliot (Letters, November 27) of Bourne, Lincolnshire, a county that will be put into Tier 3 next Wednesday, asks why her town, with a rate of Covid-19 infection “way below the national average”, has been lumped in “with coastal places such as Skegness and Boston, which are 40 minutes’ drive away and with which we have no public transport links”.

    The same point could be made for many local districts, but the Government’s argument, articulated for television by the Prime Minister on Thursday, was: “The difficulty is that if you did it any other way, first of all you’d divide the country up into loads and loads of very complicated sub-divisions – there has got to be some simplicity and clarity in the way we do this.”

    So, how does the Prime Minister square that with the placing of Slough borough council in Berkshire in Tier 3, while the rest of that county will be in Tier 2?

    Rev His Honour Peter Morrell

    Nassington, Northamptonshire

    SIR – From here it seems as if the Johnson administration is being undermined by a fifth column in No 10 determined to alienate Tory voters, especially Brexiteers, in such strongholds as Kent and Lincolnshire.

    Nigel Farage must be rubbing his hands in glee.

    Rodney G James

    Brasschaat, Antwerp, Belgium

    1. appears 77 Bde need to undergo another basic geography / history lesson given politics is beyondntheir pay grade:

      Julian Gall attempts to preach to the converted

      Victoria Temperley is hardly being punished living in London W1. Given Churchill’s famous quote about not negotiating with a tiger when your head’s in its mouth, the point that the Govt is committing a crime which it continues to commit and has no political solution. Living in London W1 narrows the mind

      Re “Rev His Honour Peter Morrell” and his trucky irreverent question over Skegness, Boston, Slough – the PM squares this away with the same panache as putting windfarms in the Blackwall Tunnel

      As for poor Rodney G James [77 intern virtual overseas branch] – besides that we left the EU, posting from address in a country that the UK created to stop the French from using it’s ports, probably does have Nigel Farage rubbing his hands with glee..

      1. We haven’t actually left the EU yet, though. This is a common misconception perpetuated by the media. We are in TRANSITION until the end of this year. As such, we aren’t free to run our own lives.

        1. mng, UK left on 31 Jan 2020. UK’s no longer an EU Member, no longer participating in EU Institutions. In process is the transition period til 31 Dec, then “legally” in UK / EU phrase, left the EU. That’s either full Brexit or BRINO

          1. As I said, we have not left until 31st December this year. In transition we cannot sign off our own trade deals (although we can prepare for them), we can’t diverge from EU regs, we’re still subject to the ECJ and I expect we’re still paying tribute to Brussels at least in the form of VAT contributions if not in other contributions as well. Then, of course, there is the matter of our fish. The devil is in the detail of the Withdrawal Agreement.

  10. SIR – You mention (Leading Article, November 23) the plight of pub landlords but not the customers.

    For many people the pub is (was) their only chance to socialise. The Government wants to destroy the social fabric of the country.

    Howard M Tolman

    Great Cornard, Suffolk

  11. Morning again

    What privilege?

    SIR – My mother was born in the workhouse and brought up in a children’s home under the old Poor Law. She is now 98, has dementia and lives in a care home. She finally retired aged 74 and has used up most of her finances on the cost of care.

    There were only two possibilities when she was a child – to go into domestic service or work in a factory. Without any choice, she was placed in a factory at 14, losing most of her hearing as a result of the noise from the looms. It is with some surprise that I now read that “white privilege” (report, November 24) should be taught to university staff and students.

    Jean Robinson

    Skipton, North Yorkshire

    2. Good morning .

      I firmly believe this absolute nonsense about “white privilege” should be kicked into touch .

      Husband and I saw some old WW1 footage , and there were tears in our eyes when we saw the horse drawn gun carriages struggling through mud in France , Moh’s paternal grandfather was a little man , was used to horses , and rode the team that pulled the guns .. He came from farming stock , and had had a hard life as a child in Hampshire working on the land . Moh has his old photos of hay wagons and horses, and also references to one of his family who died in the engine room of the Titanic .

      1. Elderly chum’s father was a horse man throughout WWI. He survived the whole 4 years.
        He had been a drayman at a local brewery, so it was, so to speak, horses for courses.

        1. Moh’s grandfather survived nearly the whole of the war , then he was injured by shrapnel . Evacuated to Netley Military hospital on Southampton water . He ALWAYS remained tearful with regard to the horse teams , he saw things we can’t bear to think about .

          His other grandfather was in the Royal Engineers , and he was also wounded. He spent his early years working on a Hampshire farm as well. He was also evacuated and spent time at the Military hospital at Netley , then was sent to of all places a hospital in Wakefield to recuperate . His one and only experience of Yorkshire , which he considered cold and foggy compared to Hampshire.

    3. The modern Left’s stupidity and arrogance comes from a life of complete, abject luxury. Only a group of people who have never known want, poverty, war or a lack of security could have so much time to waste on such trivial nonsense as ‘privilege’.

      I remember watching a programme the other day about slavery – I think it a youtube channel – anyway, this black fellow lambasting about slavery compensation he asked what we all have: who sold them?

      The argument was that using slavery – or any historical injustice – as a whipping post for political machination is utterly disgusting.

    4. If that’s the woman I think it is she was one of my mother’s best friends (an ‘Auntie’) who lived on the opposite side of the street to us. I didn’t know she was still alive. I have some research to do.

  12. SIR – The request by Michael Deacon’s son (November 26) of a box of Cheerios for Christmas made me smile.

    Many years ago, my daughter told me her best friend had been given a new My Little Pony for doing well in school exams. Feeling guilty for not rewarding her in a similar fashion (surely a high mark is reward enough?) I asked her if she’d like me to get her something. She said she could do with a new roll of Sellotape. She got one.

    Mary Ross

    Warrington, Cheshire

    1. “…(surely a high mark is reward enough?)…”
      That’s my arguement against sporties and luvvies getting gongs. Their own industries give recognition in the form of Oscars, medals, trophies, BAFTAs etc. (Not to mention £millions)

      1. On the whole I would agree with you. There remains an argument for awards in later life for those who have gone on from their own success to things like extensive grass-roots coaching or other voluntary work, but not specifically for winning prizes.

        1. Quite agree. There are plenty of people, who after day’s or week’s work, then spend hours coaching and giving often deprived youngsters a chance in life or at least a new interest.
          Imagine turning out on evenings like this to set up a village hall or spending your weekend in a cold damp field.

          1. Both my nieces were enthusiastic and competitive swimmers. Some 25 years since they first got involved with club coaching both my sister and brother-in-law are still involved in swimming (though their daughters have moved on and elder grand-daughter is now swimming – and would be competing if competitions were not suspended). Over the years they have coached, they have officiated, they have trained officials (time-keepers, stroke judges etc), they have dealt with admin. Their loft is full of electronic time-keeping equipment, spare trophies and other swimming-related “clutter”. Their computers are overloaded with the means of keeping track of thousands of children/young people and their progress and relaying such information between other groups of officials. They have travelled the length and breadth of Scotland more times than I can count (including Shetland and the outer Hebrides).

            It is, at least, warm in most pool environments though certainly not dry. But for many years they turned out on 3 weekends a month to pools and on the other for meetings. They don’t expect rewards, and I don’t say that they deserve them, others have undoubtedly done more and more difficult things; but I do know that they are only a very tiny cog in the vast operation of making sport available to youngsters (not necessarily poor or deprived but including those who are) which is not provided by any other system besides the volunteer staffed one.

  13. Morning all, I have just taken the trouble to find out how my MP feels about this tier fiasco. I quote from his twatter page,

    “ If #Mendip (113 cases per 10,000) and #SouthSomerset (109 cases) entered lockdown at Tier 1 and both come out at Tier 2, perhaps this approach hasn’t been an entire success. Unless the full analysis and reasoning reveals all when it’s published and seen? #RoadToRecovery”.

    How is that for full on anger and condemnation of what is happening to his constituents, just watch him rise up and vote against the government, or not if he is true to form.

    1. I have never heard my MP’s name mentioned, never seen his name in lists of signatories to letters, never seen him interviewed on TV, never seen him called to speak in a HoC debate.

      I suppose as he followed Michael Hesseltine and then BoJo (before his mayoral sabbatical), he feels it is too much to live up to.

      1. probably sticks to the adage: “keep quiet and be thought a fool, rather than opening one’s mouth and confirming it”. Counting blessings can be a double edged sword

      2. The other more likely explanation is that being in a safe seat allows him to sit back, do nothing but take the money and not give his constituents a second thought.

      3. If it’s the fellow I’m thinking of – he’s an old family friend, drinking companion and fellow adventurer with my late father in the days when he was interesting before he became an accountant.

        A splendid cook, he once made a shepherd’s pie for my vegetarian girlfriend using peanuts (improving on her recipe using brussels sprouts) and once boasted he drank the cellar dry of some ancient Oxford college, noted for its victual hospitality.

        His antics in Eastern Europe during the Warsaw Pact era was to tour the Iron Curtain with my father and a couple of Polish academics (one of whom had a girlfriend in every village between Poland and Bulgaria) in a gold-coloured Daf 44, bearing a coat of arms, with the local secret police in hot pursuit. The real spies, who have nil charisma, could then go about their business undisturbed.

        It was one of those Polish academics who made it to Weymouth beach one bank holiday on a cultural exchange. He then decided to remove all his clothes. The standard response was “Please, not a problem, we’re Polish!” My father’s friend, myself and the other academic then made a wall to screen Polish modesty, forgetting that while we denied holidaymakers the delights of a full frontal, those from the sides and behind saw everything.

        I don’t know what middle age, the Conservative Party and parliament did to the fellow, but he tries very hard these days not to get noticed. The whips do not like interesting people.

          1. What I do know is that his predecessors as constituency MP were Boris Johnson and Michael Heseltine.

  14. Morning all, I have just taken the trouble to find out how my MP feels about this tier fiasco. I quote from his twatter page,

    “ If #Mendip (113 cases per 10,000) and #SouthSomerset (109 cases) entered lockdown at Tier 1 and both come out at Tier 2, perhaps this approach hasn’t been an entire success. Unless the full analysis and reasoning reveals all when it’s published and seen? #RoadToRecovery”.

    How is that for full on anger and condemnation of what is happening to his constituents, just watch him rise up and vote against the government, or not if he is true to form.

  15. ‘Morning again.

    There may be a glimmer of hope for those towns and villages with very low Covid scores being dragged into crippling Tier 3 status. Take the village of Groombridge near here – it straddles the Kent/East Sussex border. Kent is Tier 3, so the Crown pub (one of the oldest in southern England) cannot reopen. However, if you walk about 400 yds to the Junction Inn on the other side of the county boundary then you will find it open and functioning under the Tier 2 regulations.

    From the Tellygraff:

    Towns and villages near Covid hotspots would be lifted out of the toughest restrictions under plans being drawn up by ministers to quell a growing Tory backlash.

    MPs have been told that rural areas with low infection rates could be “decoupled” from cities that have “unfairly” dragged them into Tiers 2 and 3 under the Government’s regional approach.

    It comes amid a major rift between ministers and scientific advisers, who say areas of England are more likely to go up a tier than down one.

    Government scientists have said they expect few changes within the system in coming months, with Tier 2 areas more likely to go up than down and almost nowhere likely to move to Tier 1 until March. They are understood to have told Boris Johnson that he should consider moving Tier 2 areas to Tier 3.

    The draconian advice comes despite new figures showing the reproduction ‘R’ rate of the virus to have come down to between 0.9 and 1.0 – its lowest level since August – meaning that Covid may already be in retreat.

    Up to 100 Tory MPs are threatening the biggest rebellion of Mr Johnson’s premiership when the new tier system is put to a vote next week amid anger over a broad brush approach that has put low incidence areas into higher tiers because they are in the same county as a city with a high infection rate.

    Government ministers Nadhim Zahawi and Jesse Norman are among those to have publicly criticised the new tiers.

    Labour has yet to decide whether it will vote for the tier system, meaning Mr Johnson could face defeat unless he can persuade enough of his own MPs to back down. The Prime Minister said on Friday that he understood the “frustration” of people who have ended up in tier two or three despite low infection rates in their town or village.

    According to reports, the Prime Minister has pencilled in Easter Monday as the day when the strict Covid tiers will be lifted.

    Ministers and officials are trying to win round Tory MPs by offering them hope that their constituencies will be “decoupled” from hotspots when a review of the tiers is carried out in mid-December. Matt Hancock, the Health Secretary, is among ministers understood to have discussed the idea with backbenchers, with other ministers and officials also having private talks with MPs.

    Seven Tory MPs in Kent are among those in discussions with the Government over “decoupling” low-incidence rural areas from hotspots in the county, which is in Tier 3 along with 41 per cent of England’s population.

    Tom Tugendhat, the MP for Tonbridge and Malling, said: “Many of us are talking to his [Mr Hancock’s] team at the moment – we are seeing where we are going to get. I’d like the Government to come to the right conclusion. It’s an error.”

    Many MPs have pointed out that both Slough, in Berkshire, and Scarborough, in North Yorkshire, have already been “decoupled” from their regions by being put into different tiers.

    Former Cabinet minister Liam Fox, the MP for North Somerset, said: “Why should we be punished for Bristol not being able to get its numbers under control? We weren’t the ones having raves and protests. We are being victimised because of the city authorities’ failure to get this under control. It appears to lack consistency and logic.

    “I’ve made my feelings known within the party and expect these things will be reviewed before the vote on Tuesday. There have been hints by ministers that there will be decoupling.”

    Sir Graham Brady, the chairman of the 1922 Committee of backbench Tories, said: “The tiers have been applied in an unjust and unfair way, putting whole counties into lockdown when significant areas have very low levels of infection.”

    Andrew Bridgen, whose North West Leicestershire constituency has been put into Tier 3 because of high rates in Leicester, said: “A lot of us were in lower tiers and now we are in higher tiers. If there is any hope of salvation, we’ve got to be decoupled from Leicester.

    “Our figures are dropping. It’s all about hope – and if we are linked with Leicester, then we have no hope.”

    Business minister Mr Zahawi said he had spoken to Mr Hancock and “made clear to him the very strong feelings” among his constituents in Stratford-upon-Avon, which is in Tier 3 because infection rates in Coventry and Solihull have “counted against us”.

    He said he was “pushing for” Warwickshire to be “reconsidered alone” so it can drop to Tier 2.

    Mr Johnson said: “I know it is frustrating for people when they are in a high-tier area when there is very little incidence in their village or their area. I totally understand why people feel frustrated.

    “The difficulty is that if you did it any other way, first of all you’d divide the country up into loads and loads of very complicated sub-divisions – there has got to be some simplicity and clarity in the way we do this. The second problem is that, alas, our experience is that when a high-incidence area is quite close to a low-incidence area, unless you beat the problem in the high-incidence area then the low-incidence area, I’m afraid, starts to catch up.”

    Downing Street has insisted it is possible that some of the 99 per cent of the country in tiers two and three could drop down to lower tiers when a review based on the newest data is announced on December 17.

    However, it emerged on Friday that while Mr Johnson faces a fight for the support of his own MPs for the tier system, he also faces a battle with his scientific advisers, who believe the restrictions should be toughened rather than relaxed.

    One senior Government scientist said he was “not expecting big changes to the tiers in the next few months”, adding that he “would be surprised if we saw large numbers of areas get down to Tier 1” before spring heralds the rollout of a vaccine.

    The adviser said he anticipated that some areas would rise from Tier 2 to Tier 3 after Christmas, while it was possible some areas could drop from Tier 3 to Tier 2 in time.

    He added that “from now … into February is going to be the most difficult”, anticipating heavier pressures on the NHS after Christmas when rises in respiratory viruses and flu are typically seen, saying: “All those things conspire against being able to relax tiers.”

    The same source called into question Mr Johnson’s reliance on mass testing to get areas out of Tier 3. The Prime Minister has cited the use of it in Liverpool as the reason it became the first part of the country to leave the highest tier, and Number 10 has said hundreds of millions of tests will soon be available.

    But the source said it would be “optimistic” to think that mass testing could reduce an epidemic by 15 to 20 per cent and that repeated testing in high-risk groups was likely to be more effective than offering it to the whole population less frequently.

    On Friday night, Michael Gove defended the tier system in The Times, describing it as “grimly, inevitably necessary” to prevent the NHS from being unable to treat emergency patients.

    Separately, newly-released minutes of a Sage meeting on November 19 show that scientific advisers believe the relaxation of rules on household mixing over the festive period will result in increased prevalence in a similar way to students returning to university in September.

    1. 326899+ up ticks,
      Morning HJ,
      IMO the theme song of the lab/lib/con coalition party should be something along the lines of
      🎵
      Manipulation that’s the name of our game.

      1. ogga mng, the whole cabal is way past manipulation, they know they;ve collectively shot their bolt on that. It’s now about grabbing what they can before becoming a bookmark in history

        1. 326899+ up ticks,
          Morning AW,
          Check my back post in saying the same.
          These party’s forming the coalition party are going through the sh!te or bust time, no return,
          bridge burning, seen as such by those of a common sense mindset.

          1. will do, had usual month end power rationing big style here, so was out of loop totally. From afar, it’s clear as day since early this year merging of interests viz coalition / reform was building up a head of steam. Fox, Farage et al know this but not daft enough to submit to current rules. And am sure if / when they get physically on the ground, they’ll have confirmed what they already know. Then it’ll be the time to put the game face on

          2. 326899+ up ticks,
            AW,
            Was in Ikeja Nigeria, new Guinness brewery, 3am most mornings jenny outside bedroom window use to fire up.
            The only noise suppressor was
            to O D on flag ( lager).

          3. it’s standard transformer line switch here [that obviously / conveniently] forget about. Then KPLC’s biggest shareholder is Jomo’s wife, Mama Ngina. Still stuck in immediate posit colonial hangover

    2. I cannot understand why it is only Conservative MPs who seemed exercised about this. Does Starmer not understand the meaning of the word ‘opposition?’ Does Labour not think that it is working-class people who need to be physically present to do their jobs who are hardest hit by restrictions, and therefore they should speak up for them?

      I am in a Tier 2 area, supposedly I am not allowed to meet anyone from outside my household indoors. I will be interested to see if any publican or restauranteur has the temerity to ask me what the relationship is between myself and anyone I choose to accompany me to their establishment. I would suggest that such intrusion would be met with an Anglo-Saxon retort and taking my custom elsewhere!

      1. mng JK, some Conservative MPs are vexed because they’re more connected to their constituents. The others couldn’t care less. Starmer has long passed the stage of the meaning of opposition, they know they no longer represent “working class” ethics as it’s no longer their voting baseline.

        Viz yr point re publican etc. they would, or ought to know that’s questions are never asked, just am sure you or anyone else would never ask kids knocking at your door singing Xmas carols.

        In summary, it’s another stress test on people to see how much they are willing to take

        1. I hope that everyone is lobbying their MPs over the weekend. We need to let them know how angry we are, how these arbitrary decisions are decimating our way of life. They need to stand up for us, or I fear we will see civil unrest.

          I actually feel very sorry for small businesses who have spent thousands and made life uncomfortable for their staff to become ‘Covid Secure’ and who were still shut down. I doubt that many publicans want to make life difficult for paying customers, if anyone does ask I will just say that my companion is my brother/sister/live-in lover and leave it at that. But as you say, it is just another measure of our compliance. When I hear people say that they have not seen their relatives since March I immediately think ‘Why?’ Why do people comply religiously with these idiotic rules?

          1. My hairdresser is opening again on Wednesday.
            She is a decent, hard working lass who has coiffed the locals for 50 years and provided jobs for numerous local women.
            She now works in a state of permanent paranoia in case some town hall jobsworth closes her down for the slightest slip up.
            MB’s barber was in near tears when he detailed the regime under which he was trying to earn a crust.
            They have no choice but to comply. We are now living in the German Democratic Republic.

          2. My heart goes out to people like that. It is hard enough to run a small business at the best of times. but this supposedly conservative government has taken a sledgehammer to the livelihoods of people like your hairdresser. Our local hairdresser has been doing clandestine home visits, she simply cannot afford to lose another month’s business. The law-abiding are being criminalised. I never thought I would see this in Britain.

          3. Still not even a holding reply from a minion in response to my missive to my MP – I’m hoping that’s because she’s been swapped with angry messages! More likely she’s waiting for Con central to draft some anodyne reply!

          4. Those desperate to comply are ignorant and don’t understand the basics of chemistry, biology or statistics.

            Some people think they live in a clean room and that the world is perfectly clean all the time and are afraid of a virus the government tells them to be scared of.

            Some people dearly love to obey because then someone else is responsible for their lives and they get someone to blame.

            Some are just thick. There’s a lot of them.

            Sadly, these people are able to vote.

          5. I find that those who are obsessive about hygiene are the first to go down with snuffles if there’s anything about – their immune system never gets any practice in the ordinary line of business.

          6. There is talk that Ludlow may be able to have spectators after 2nd December. Much as I want to go racing, do I really want to drive all that way (it’s getting on for 100 mile round trip) to be socially distanced and have to wear a mask even in the open air? The answer is no, I don’t.

      2. “I say, I say, I say! Who is that lady you’re with?”

        “This is no lady … this is my wife!”

        Boom-boom…
        ;¬)

      4. We are lumped in with Telford (and Wrekin). Urban, known for grooming gangs and not Salopians in origin (lots of them are Birmingham overspill). If we could ditch them, we’d be in Tier 1.

    3. For me it would make more sense to base the regions on National Health Service Trusts providing critical care services as the only justifiable (in my ‘umble opinion) reason for a lock down is to try to prevent the local healthcare system from being overwhelmed.

      2. Wot! Have localised services make decisions rather than centralise everything through thirty layers of expensive statisticianss, quangos and troughers to a remote, detached government to a tiny handful of people who will present the most apocalyptic picture while suffering none of the consequences of their recommendations?

        Don’t be silly.

    3. The face mask of the one using the taser wasn’t covering his own mouth. Why didn’t another copper Taser him?

    3. Apparently that will be the way to linger over our ‘substantial’ meal in the pub, so we don’t get kicked out the moment we drain our last sip of wine/beer/gin etc…..

  18. I will not say Good morning all as it is an absolutely foul morning outside with the yard thermometer on 0°C.
    So I don’t think I’ll be doing much woodstacking today.

    1. Beautiful clear day here, with a really heavy frost – got to -9 or so last night, so all the world is white and sparkly.
      Dawn at (late) breakfast time, with bacon butties and good coffee, was lovely, too. Don’t even have to get up early to see the sunrise!
      Morning, Bob. Morning, all.

      1. I remember years ago, lying in an ambush all night at -9°. As is usual in training, the ambush was tripped at the end of the excercise so we were all lying there motionless for about six hours and when the time came no-one could move.
        It all ended in a good old blat of three magazines of blanks then home in time for tea and medals.

        1. Did the same, many years ago. Became slowly winter-cammo’d with a good layer of frost, and I’ve never been so cold in all my life. Took days to thaw out. After, they said, paack up & back to the Landy, lads. Brekker & a wet back at camp. Could barely move. Taught me a lot about choice of clothing…

        2. Sounds like my bedroom when we lived in an old farmhouse out in the boondocks.
          My mother erupting to wake me was probably the equivalent of rapid mortar fire.

        3. Did the same, many years ago. Became slowly winter-cammo’d with a good layer of frost, and I’ve never been so cold in all my life. Took days to thaw out. After, they said, paack up & back to the Landy, lads. Brekker & a wet back at camp. Could barely move. Taught me a lot about choice of clothing…

          1. We queued for five hours for the Queen Mother’s lying in state.
            The queue started near County Hall and we gradually shuffled across the river and snaked back and forth beside Westminster Hall.
            I was dressed for a posh London visit; it took my innards a couple of days to recover.

          2. My clothes were all frozen and I was sure I was going to lose a couple of fingers and toes.
            It was character building, apparently.

    2. Take the day off, B of B, it’s good for you. I think I might just go back to bed in a short while.

      PS (10 minutes later): That’s it, I’m off. Have a nice day, NoTTLers!

      PPS – Just edited the above to add to “off” to the first sentence.

  19. From the DT: “Labour to demand more cash for Tier 3 councils as price for backing restrictions” – so, the socialists want more government spending – no surprise there. Not mentioned whether the restrictions are going to help, of course, but money, money, money…

    1. Are Covid marshals Labour voters? Or is it the other way round? You get the job if you vote Labour?

      1. What’s Labour to do with it? They are keeping their heads down and allowing the tories to get a bad name from their uselessness – Starmer doesn’t have to do a thing. See referred earlier today, from Napoleon: “Never interrupt the enemy when he’s in the middle of making a mistake” – well, Starmer isn’t interrupting.

    2. There is no suitable riposte to that, though, is there? The Cons are spraying money about as if there’s no tomorrow. They can’t possibly say “Labour spending is off the scale” or would be.

    1. The presumption from the Trump camp is that it is only Democrats that are cheating, never Republicans.

      More likely is that they are both at it, and it’s more a contest about who can get away with it more successfully.

      1. I’m sure most, if not all parties will push the boundaries of what’s legal, however, bar the occasional actions of a tiny number of local representatives, there simply isn’t any evidence of widespread fraud in the US (or UK) despite the deliberate attempt by the more zealous Trump supporters to sow confusion and doubt. These people have exposed themselves to be fundamentally anti-democratic and I predict their next punishment will be for the Republicans to lose the Senate run-off in Georgia.

        1. My intuition suggests that both presidential outcomes in 2016 and 2020 were correct. Trump excited the imagination of the Rust Belt working class four years ago, which swung him over. By 2020, his appeal was growing stale there, and while he did well to bring in votes from other places, such as the Hispanics eager for the drugs gangs not to follow them over the wall, he could not change the fact that disgust with Washington insiders had subsided somewhat.

          I have doubts myself about the moral integrity of both candidates, but what Trump did, through his “business” associates to the Kurds and the Amazonian tribesfolk was unforgivable.

          1. I think that’s a good summary. I was surprised that Trump’s vote increased in 2020, but he’s such a polarising character that millions who tend not to vote and allegedly aren’t encouraged to do so, turned out this time, hence the record number of votes and very high turnout. Trump did excite in 2016, but he was a shallow populist lacking substance who did the one thing a politician in a democracy can’t do, he abused half the electorate and just like the Remainers here who abused Brexit voters, he has discovered that you lose if all you offer is abuse to those who didn’t vote for you.

          2. I agree. I imagine there were quite a few Democrats who couldn’t stand Hillary, but who could just about tolerate Biden who turned out because above all they wanted rid of Trump.

            Republican Washington insiders might well also have been covertly backing Biden by not making as much of an effort as they could over the presidential campaign, which was carried largely by Trump’s own boundless enthusiasm.

          3. That’s garbage.

            The Dems cheated on a massive scale and it’s all coming out as at the Gettysburg hearing in PA where the full story was told.

            Lots of peeps are going to have to eat crow about this, and that includes you !

          4. Billary’s ‘Basket of Deplorables”. That went well for her.
            I cannot understand what goes through the minds of politicians who are trying to garner votes.

          5. It’s really odd isn’t it? I remember saying this to Remainer friends who seemed to think that calling Leavers “racists idiots” was a way to win the second referendum they wanted.

          8. I’m not sure if it’s accurate, but I did read that whilst Remain supporters were more likely to have degrees, Leave supporters had better A levels and given the age difference between the two groups and relative university access rates, that would suggest no actual difference in educational attainment.

          9. Good point.
            Some 30 years ago, I remember a Maths professor telling me that she spent the first year going through stuff that used to be done in the 6th. form.

        2. Similar tactics to the Remainers, in fact. If you can’t succeed with voting, go to the courts.

          1. They went far too far and were punished at the election. Same will happen to the Republicans. The electorate tends to take a dim view of people who use the Courts to try and prevent the result being enacted.

      2. The whole system needs a good rethink, with the same mindset as that used when they drafted the US Constitution – a system of checks and balances, that guards the “truth” of the vote, and that people can believe in. Otherwise, democracy itself will be broken, and taht is much more serious than who gets to be POTUS or not for the next 4 years.

        1. The whole system seems to be an absolute Mugger’s Buddle.
          And we seem to be heading in the same direction.

        2. Mng. What passes for Democracy is the game plan / end game for Democrats [and some elder Republicans] who want to re write the Constitution, protecting their own commercial interests. The system needs a complete reset on its founding principles, asking septics to think, is a “bridge too far”. AS it appears to stand now, Trumpet re-elected finishes Democrats, Demented Joe in [for a few hours til retiring on health grounds] US will be akin to Somalia in the late 90s

        3. Democracy isn’t a vote every four years. Democracy requires a motivated, engaged, intelligent electorate. It requires a government that is held in check by that electorate, who can stop their government passing a law on a whim. That can repeal older laws, that can sack ministers and prevent corruption, fraud and theft.

          It requires an electorate that understands the basics of economics to ensure private money is spent well.

          Almost all so called ‘democracies’ hate the idea of this because it would prevent them getting through the agenda they want. Such ‘populist’ policies so hated by the Left, the greens and other nutters would take precedence over idiocy such as forcing electric cars on us all. It is a neutered, castrated government paralysed into – dear flipping life, I can’t believe I have to say this – obeying their masters – the electorate.

          We, in the UK; do not live in a democracy. We live in a corporatist oligarchy.

          1. I like your first two suggestions but it would be like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas getting the MPs to pass the law in the first place. Wasn’t there an attempt to make recall of an MP possible if enough constituents voted for it? That disappeared into the ether.

          2. But the vote is the only tangible evidence that the demos have of being able to influence the direction of things. Make that a nonsense, and nobody will engage, no matter how well versed in economics they are.

          3. No – I’m not saying do not have votes. Quite the opposite. Have lots *more* votes. Allow the public to call a vote on a given law. Allow – and enforce – public right to reject and remove MPs and, more importantly legislation.

            Keep people voting and hold them to it. Make people get involved by giving them the power to directly influence decision making. remove the once every four years. Push in once every four flippin’ days, four *hours*. If enough people want something then fight for it.

            Can you imagine those MPs would have swanned off to the EU to demand Brexit be over turned if they were sacked the second they left the UK? Now imagine they came back to find their life time career’s expenses bills to be paid as well, and their pensions revoked.

            Imagine if we had wanted a vote to leave the EU a decade ago and won. Imagine if the Withdrawal Agreement were thrown out.

          4. So think in Switzerland they have referenda to decide some things, not sure if everything, but it sounds pretty good to me. There will always be people who aren’t interested in voting but that’s their lookout. We holidayed in Breckinridge, Colorado, some years ago and there was a vote for the locals and 3 outlying districts as to whether the constituents wanted to continue paying for tourists to travel free on the buses between the areas. That to me was a great idea.

          5. Yes, pretty much. I’m a strong advocate of the Swiss system mainly because it doesn’t automatically open any legislation to referenda, but if a set number want to change law, they can. Then that stands. MPs can do nothing about it. If an MP tries, they can be sacked by the public.

            Most MPs in Switzerland are part time, with other jobs. It’s not a career in itself. Why would it be when you are effectively powerless?

          6. Well our MPs are powerless, it seems, they were so used to nodding through things from the EU that they are now incapable of thought. The Swiss system I’m sure would galvanise people into voting. I’d vote for it any day! Most of our MPs now have never had a proper job before milking us all.

          7. Now you’re talking my language!
            The vote should be as “Aye”, “Nay”, “go back and try again”.
            We have a system here called BankID on Mobile that uses a combination of encryption and passwords that allow you to prove you are who you say you are. It works for all bank transactions and government interactions by interweb. The same system could be used to allow citizens to vote – maybe on Sunday afternoons, on the week’s political business.

          8. Morning W

            I see the policies pronounced by this government as ” Take what you are given and be thankful” ,
            I say that through clenched teeth . Their new planning policies will bring disaster and division.

  21. Wait a while as I share a story

    Today, imagine a tired, poor sleeping man waking early on a cold, frosty morning to the patting of a giant paw.

    Imagine said man putting on a dressing gown and letting said paw owner outside to do his usuals – because he too and has forgotten any sense of time, space and routine.

    Now imagine said child of said man dashing past said man as said man nurses cold coffee.

    Said child now outside in near freezing air in pyjamas playing with said beast.

    Man arranges child, man and beast to go for a walk to wake up and let said wife of said man sleep in.

    2 hours pass…

    Said man, child and beast return covered in mud, goo and water as said dog found a blasted ice covered lake and leapt into it.

    Now, does said beast obey man as he runs bath for said child?

    Yes! he does. Until said child dashes in to see said wife and brings said beast – soaking wet, freezing cold and covered in mud with him.

    Said wife’s screams echo through the house, said man arrives and gets verbal cannonade to the face. Said dog runs for it. Said child runs after said dog.

    Said bath overflows. Said floor turns into puddle. Said wife continues to scream.

    5 minutes pass and said child is in bath – said water mopped up by laying said beast in it.

    Said wife has new bedsheets, hot fresh coffee, porridge and is now asleep again.

    This is good, as it gives me a chance to try to get the river of mud caused by boots and paws off the stairs.

    Said man, child and beast are all in the dog house for the weekend.

  22. 326899+ up ticks,
    Crooky plays hooky, lack of hair today, gone tomorrow.

    breitbart,
    Balding Migrant School Pupil Who Looked 40 Disappears from UK School

          1. I found it amusing that the DM blanked out his face in their photograph because they are not allowed to show the faces of children.

  24. UK’s R-rate falls below one after three weeks of national lockdown in England. 28 November 2020.

    The Covid-19 epidemic in Britain is thought to be shrinking slightly with the reproduction “R” number estimated to be below 1 after three weeks of national lockdown in England, UK government scientists said on Friday.

    The number of new infections is shrinking by between 0 per cent and 2 per cent every day, the UK Government Office for Science said, after it was estimated to be growing between 0 per cent and 2 per cent in last week’s release.

    Morning everyone. If everyone were locked into their homes (something I’m sure the government would like to do) the virus transmission rate would drop to zero within a month. This is not epidemiology but common sense. If there is no contact there can be no spread. The question is, is it effective in the long term? That we have already passed through one lock down and both Europe and now, due to a resurgence, Asian countries that were once thought to be over it are suffering the same would suggest not.

    The truth is that lockdown and its alter egos Tier1, 2, etc, are simply holding off the inevitable. Even China, a supposed victor, simply awaits the next incursion with admittedly effective responses that are worthy of a totalitarian state, but it is still simply repelling boarders. China can afford to do this both socially and financially. Here in the UK the measures adopted are destroying the country both economically and institutionally. This is why Boris and Co scan the political horizon for the white knight vaccine that will rescue them from this trench they have dug for themselves in the middle of No Man’s Land.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/coronavirus-news-tier-rules-lockdown-covid-oxford-vaccine-testing/

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/asymptomatic-spread-blame-asian-countries-struggle-contain-resurgence/

  25. Smell of cake baking beginning to leak out of the kitchen… and sausage-making later in the afternoon!

    1. Afternoon, Paul.

      This morning I mixed some dough for a wholemeal loaf to be baked tomorrow. I’ve got two batches of bread cobs and one batch of fruit teacakes going through their initial rise. I have two batches of scone dough ready for rolling and cutting (one fruit, one plain). I’ve still got to make some vanilla (custard) slices.

      I’m treating some English friends to an afternoon tea tomorrow, with salmon and cucumber sandwiches, egg and cress sandwiches, scones with butter and jam, and vanilla slices. [The cobs and teacakes will be frozen for future consumption].

    2. My loaf came out of the over half an hour ago. I was able to show it to my lad in the Skype – he then showed me his!

    1. Just hunted some statistics: The annual suicide rate in Norway is almost exactly twice that of COVID deaths.
      Who gives a flying one for he poor buggers who have such an awful life that they want to end it? But a version of flu, with a 99,7% survival rate, let’s panic and get our knickers seriously in a twist.

  27. If/when Biden is inaugurated as POTUS, there will be some happy people at the Guardian and its US counterpart, the New York Times.

    But there is another group of people expecting even more happiness. I refer to some of the most evil terrorists that the world has ever seen, namely those inhabiting Guantanamo Bay. They are hoping to be released and Biden wants to close the facility permanently, as he and Obama tried to do but failed because of opposition in Congress.

    I wonder how many of those who actually voted for Biden will be pleased to see some more criminals polluting the world!

    1. One moment the Trump supporters criticise Obama for intervening militarily in the ME, next they claim the Dems will release the terrorist the Obama administration captured! You couldn’t make this nonsense up, but they do!

    1. Does Diane Abbott support BLM? If so she is certainly putting the hippo into hypocrisy!

  30. These lockdown measures look to me just like a away of preventing people from gathering and talking.
    If people talk they might discus the pandemic.
    if they discus the pandemic they might conclude that it is not really a pandemic.
    If they conclude that there is not really a pandemic they might start uniting against the governments measures.
    If they unite against the governments measures it might go nationwide.
    If it goes nationwide they wont be able to administer their vaccine.
    If people wont take their vaccine the scam will have been all for nothing.
    Technocracy and their great reset will have played it’s hand and lost.

    1. Bob morning, agree, basically command and control and the fear of reverse engineering the C-19 Project Fear gambit, blows it all out of the water

    2. SIR – Those within and without the Conservative Party clamouring for the replacement of Boris Johnson should ask themselves whether, if politics had taken a different direction over the past five years and David Cameron, Theresa May or Jeremy Corbyn had been Prime Minister, any of them would have handled the pandemic any better. I suspect not.

      John Brandon

      Tonbridge, Kent

      SIR – A lockdown is like holding one’s breath underwater: it’s a temporary solution to an immediate problem.

      We must learn to keep our heads above water until the tide goes out.

      Charles Smith

      Ruddington, Nottinghamshire

      1. 326899+ up tick,
        Morning E,
        Someone inform John that the political assassination of M Thatcher triggered the in-house coalition party coming into the open.
        It is plain to see that since the demise of Maggie the ovis have been given the re-set campaign
        succour with their continuing input
        harvest time is now upon us.

        1. Hi Ogga,
          You’ve been referring for some time to ‘the ovis’. Im assuming you mean sheep but who are you including in this group?

          Edited.

          1. 3426899+ up ticks,
            Morning SIADC,
            Not being a tranny I answer in the name of ogga1,
            Since the political demise of Mrs Thatcher ALL that support & vote lab/lib/con in my book a coalition with NO opposition.
            As in prior post we could NOT have got to our present state as a nation with out their continuing input, if this upsets, tis sad but true.

          2. Oops, sorry I didnt notice ‘Olga’ – must have been an autocorrect. I’ll edit my comment

          4. I’m afraid to tell you that “There Is No Alternative” along with the Single Market, Tony Blair and the decimation and subversion of our national public institutions were all creations of Margaret Thatcher. A vile woman.

            Not that we’ve had much better since.

          5. 326899+ up ticks,
            Morning JM,
            Where there is a negative there is a positive, since the Thatcher era negative ruled in a positive orchestrated treacherous manner, there is an answer awaiting the ovis out there, to submit & quit is not an option.

          6. Cripes, back to Latin lessons: 3rd declension – I think.
            Ovis
            Ovis
            Ovem
            Ovis
            Ovi
            Ove.

            V as in W if you’re speaking posh Latin. Bit of a tongue twister to decline.

          8. No. It’s way of keeping teachers out of mischief for half an hour; one hour if you were unlucky enough to cop a double period.

          9. If ogga is talking about more than one sheep, it should be the plural (3rd declension is correct):-
            Oves
            Oves
            Oves
            Ovium
            Ovibus
            Ovibus

            We were taught pronunciation as in Church Latin i.e. V as V, C often as CH e.g. Veni Vidi Vici (vainee veedee veechee).

        2. Right found yr point you referred to above. And others comments. Move it up a notch and take a closer look at Rockefeller / Rothschilds after the immediate fall of the Berlin Wall. That’s where the seeds were grown. Re set machinations kicked up a gear [Sors 92 Breaking BoE], then Bliar collecting air miles before being elected as PM. Its beyond lib/lab/con or better put LLC [Ltd Liability Company] though LLC’s apt as it’s now a corporate racket

    3. 326899+ up ticks,
      Morning B3,
      But will the lab/lib/con coalition party be in jeopardy ? where will they, the ovis turn for their daily dose of vow, promise, & pledge pacifying fodder ?

      These questions must be answered before any common sense thought can be triggered.

      Another win for the overseers they now have a labour force independent of eu / Africa on-track, qualified railway builders = 3 million Chinese HS2 ALL in prep for re-set & rapid troop movement.

    4. Really Bob3? Lockdown creates far more time for conspiracy theorists to spread their nonsense on social media.

      2. Morning, Cochrane. Here’s one for you – do you have any evidence as to why it’s nonsense? Plenty seem to be of the opposite opinion.

        1. Morning Ob,

          There’s clearly a new virus which is relatively infectious and is dangerous to the frail and people with serious health problems. It is not serious in most people and is not even noticeable in some. But because it is relatively infectious e.g. more than flu, if we take no action, the virus will spread very quickly through the population and if that happens a lot of frail elderly and others will die. That is not scaremongering it’s basic maths and is evidenced from what we’ve seen to date.

          Nevertheless, personally I don’t think the economic cost is worth it to save realistically 200,000 people’s lives. There’s an article in the DM that puts the economic cost at £6m per death and whilst dividing the cost by the number of deaths is meaningless, if we divide the cost by say 200k lives saved, the cost is £1.7m per life saved and that makes no economic sense.

  31. Charles Moore today. “Who governs Britain?” indeed…

    Thirty years ago today, Margaret Thatcher left Downing Street for the last time as prime minister. On the doorstep, she said she was “very happy that we leave the United Kingdom in a very, very much better state than when we came here 11 and a half years ago”.

    It seems a good moment to reflect on how the practice of leadership has changed since then.

    Mrs Thatcher had come to power in 1979 partly because people felt the country lacked leadership. The famous question the Conservatives, under Ted Heath, had put to voters in the general election of February 1974 was: “Who governs Britain?” The fact they had to ask showed the problem – and contributed to the Tories’ defeat.

    In those days, the problem centred around industry, especially nationalised industry. Trade union militants had great power, backed by legal privileges, to wreck the economy. Management and ministers were frightened of them. The gradual trade union reforms of the Thatcher era moved power both upwards – to management – and downwards – to ordinary members.

    They worked. The number of working days lost to strikes dropped from over 29 million in 1979 to fewer than two million in 1990. Business confidence returned. So did confidence in the power of elected governments to govern. Even today, no one – except, of course, the unchanging, ever-Red Jeremy Corbyn and friends – wants a return to the industrial relations of the Seventies.

    Yet leadership today – political, industrial/financial, civil service, educational, sporting, media, cultural, charitable, Church and state, private and public, police, even military – has reached a state of weakness that may be even worse than that of the Seventies.

    In the course of my work, I meet leaders in the above areas – Cabinet ministers, chief executives, bankers, judges, vice-chancellors, chief constables, bishops, generals, museum directors, etc. Many of them are people of high ability, but all of them nowadays, I sense, are subject to an emotion which corrodes their ability to act: fear. They are not wrong to be fearful. Something in the culture wants them to be afraid. What is it? How did we get here?

    As is often the case with things that go wrong, the road has been paved with good intentions. Tony Blair’s Freedom of Information Act (FOIA), for example, was designed to empower the citizen against the excessive secrecy of bureaucracy. Yet it has also undermined the proper, iterative, well-recorded process by which leaders should reach policy decisions.

    If officials and ministers know that release under FOIA could at any point expose a document they have written to public gaze, they will be too frightened to write what they really think in the first place. This, plus the traps of social media and the deification of “whistle-blowers”, means that “sofa government” becomes the norm. Nothing important is written down; nothing is fully prepared. Things are run by a court, not a Cabinet.

    Again, it is a truism that governments should act under law, but is it to the public good that lawyers should usurp the prerogative of ministers and military to use violence in extreme situations? In Mrs Thatcher’s time, the SAS was allowed to rescue hostages in the Princes Gate siege by killing their captors and to shoot IRA terrorists before they could blow up British soldiers in Gibraltar. No modern prime minister would dare approve such operations, yet the current terrorist threats to our citizens are even more severe.

    In the workplace generally, many reforms have improved the powers of employees against bad employers. It has rightly become harder to sack people on a whim or discriminate against women, older people, or ethnic minorities or to sexually harass the people who work for you. To take an extreme example, it was said of an owner of The Spectator magazine 50 years ago that his policy was to ask the secretaries to sleep with him. If they refused, he sacked them. If they agreed, he sacked them. He would not stand much chance today.

    Yet the assertion of rights has now gone so far that leaders have less and less time to pay attention to the actual job they are supposed to do because they are ensnared in lawsuits and employment disputes. Worse still, the growing power of an unsupported accusation means that the career of everyone in a position of responsibility hangs by a thread. He – it is more likely a man than a woman – will be suspended if accused, with the burden of proof reversed: he will have to prove his innocence.

    The Macpherson report into the killing of Stephen Lawrence famously defined a racist incident as “any incident which is perceived to be racist, either by the victim or by any other person”. This definition is patently unjust to the accused, yet it has become normative. People use it all the time, and because they know its power, some abuse it. Leaders, of course, are not so often directly accused, but that is no escape. The accusation of cover-up, or just of not handling such a situation very well, is enough to ruin a leader’s reputation. So they are scared. The fact they are scared only adds to the incentive to accuse them. They become in thrall to their HR departments.

    The most recent frightening development is the generalisation of victimhood into a political theory. This reached its apogee in the assault on our institutions by supporters of Black Lives Matter after the killing of George Floyd in May. Suddenly, government departments, museums, galleries, universities and businesses which had absolutely nothing to do with policing in Minneapolis, and most of which are specifically not supposed to engage in political activity, came under social-media orders to “take the knee”, and express BLM views. Hartwig Fischer, the director of the British Museum officially declared the museum “aligned with the spirit and soul of Black Lives Matter everywhere”. As an art expert, he knows how vital it is to establish the true provenance of an object before accepting it. Yet he appears to have done no due diligence on the extremist provenance of BLM. Presumably he was frightened.

    Frightened of what? Better to ask, I think, frightened of whom? It is fascinating that so many of our cultural, university, sometimes even school leaders explain their BLM response almost wholly in terms of their staff, particularly younger staff, or their students. Museums, for instance, or the National Trust, come under pressure from the more radicalised among the younger generation of their curators, and simply give in, as if they careers depended on it.

    The institutions show an almost militant lack of interest in the views of the millions who actually visit their galleries, libraries or houses, let alone those of the Government which hands them huge amounts of taxpayers’ money. The BBC is similarly scared of its activist staff and uninterested in its licence-fee payers.

    A shift of power is taking place. The people who are paid to lead in many areas of British life increasingly lack the power to do so. As industry in the Seventies ceded power to hard-Left union shop stewards, so today large swathes of Whitehall, local government, culture and education cede it to their woke employees and the Twitter mob that backs them up. This disempowers voters and the Government they duly elected. Once again, the question becomes: “Who governs Britain?”

    Some leading BTL comments:

    Jamie Michael
    27 Nov 2020 9:55PM
    Wonderful as always Charles. But how about an article about what is REALLY going on in this country, and indeed in almost the whole of the West right now. A take over by a sort of quasi-Marxist sect that seeks to destroy our entire way of life and liberties, and using this virus as an excuse to implement it. Surely the biggest story of our lifetimes…?

    Colin Carroll
    27 Nov 2020 10:08PM
    Another example is the rush to include minorities in every advert, whether printed or broadcast. While each advert on it’s own is not wrong per se; having nearlly all ads doing so is ridiculous. Firms appear frightened of getting negative publicity for not adhering to the new normal. I wonder what this change in advertising content is actually doing to sales! The constant drip,drip, drip of the PC and woke agendas is becoming very sinister.

    Petre Griffen
    27 Nov 2020 10:11PM
    @Colin Carroll interracial couples only make up a tiny minority of the population, but TV makes it look like the norm. In fact it’s rare to see a non-interracial one.

    1. The UK, the US and much of the West are in an inexorable decline while regimes not under the thumb of PC, BLM, left-wing teachers indoctrinating children, etc., are going from strength to strength. There are obviously those who are happy to see this happen such as those who read the Guardian and the so-called Archbishop of Canterbury who allows Christianity to be usurped – the very religion on which much of our heritage and culture is based. Those of us criticising this malevolent trend are mocked.

      We are witnessing the irreversible decline of western civilisation.

    2. “The institutions show an almost militant lack of interest in the views of the millions who actually visit their galleries, libraries or houses, let alone those of the Government which hands them huge amounts of taxpayers’ money. The BBC is similarly scared of its activist staff and uninterested in its licence-fee payers.”
      The ordinary folk don’t make a fuss because the wankerati don’t listen, they just stop paying to go. Hence Go woke, go broke”.

    4. I have noticed that Amazon’s ‘Christmas Lisa’ includes a dwarf among her cheering ‘friends’. There’s diversity for you.

      1. I received my camping and motorhome club magazine today; the front cover of the package showed Gibraltar Point and the feral ponies. The back had a black on it – of course! England is part of Africa, isn’t it?

      1. Who to trust? The so called “MSM” which is made up of newspapers with often centuries of experience of reporting or some random bloke on Twitter/ YouTube? It really isn’t a difficult choice, but if you’re so blind you’ll go for “Maximus 4ver” over the NYT there is nothing anyone can do to persuade you of your error.

          1. The NYT is the last example I would have chosen. It’s the fountainhead of lies and disinformation. It’s own editor quit because she couldn’t get it to tell the truth!

        3. When you catch out the MSM being economical with the truth, it makes it more difficult to believe what they put out. When they blatantly root for one side, instead of keeping their opinions to themselves and reporting facts, it’s difficult to trust them.
          Anybody who believes Joe Blow on twitter is a fool – video evidence helps.

          1. The “MSM” is a single blob OB, it’s made up of lots of established news companies with their own political leanings. The better outlets, like the NYT manage to report the news relatively free of bias whilst leaving the ‘bias’ to opinion pieces. That’s how they fundamentally differ from many of the online sites quoted here.

      2. Call me old fashioned, but if there’s a dispute, recount the votes.

        When the final count of the votes is finish, declare who has won. When all the states have reported their final winner, that person wins.

        Sadly though I fear there are questions over population and wealth mobility – having a house in a marginal state and a house in a guaranteed state allows you to choose where you’ll put your vote.

        1. The problem with that method is, what if a chunk of the votes are fake? Or genuine postal votes that the “voter” never saw?

        2. “Call me old fashioned, but if there’s a dispute, recount the votes”, they did in Milwaukee (at Trump’s request) and Biden’s vote went up.

        1. The problem is that things like the Pennsylvania hearing aren’t being reported. So if it does go to the Supreme Court, and they vote that there was fraud, it will look as though this vote came completely out of the blue, because people won’t have seen the logical lead up to it.
          That would of course fuel the idea that is currently being built, that Trump stole the election.

  33. Well it’s already dark here which somehow mirrors the world, so on the principle that when it can’t get any worse it always will I expect Armageddon for Christmas!

      2. It’s been (weatherwise) a much better day that I expected.
        We’ve just undone Spartie’s Lockdown Bum Vaporising programme by bribing him to pose for this year’s Christmas card.
        Fortunately, he’s not being weighed till next Friday.
        I suspect even MB would baulk at a small dog perched on my kitchen scales to get a reading.

        1. The local vet has an excellent platform scale in the waiting room. But in the days before it arrived the senior vet kept a set of ordinary bathroom scales in his room. He would step on, check, then pick up the animal and check again.

          I can remember my little brother sitting on the kitchen scales with a nappy draped over them. You could try something similar with Spartie 😉

          1. Mine are the tiny electronic ones – about the size of a side plate.
            I suspect even the slimmer line Spartie couldn’t be accurately positioned!

          2. That would make it tricky. Little brother is almost 59 and the scales in those days were bigger – and the babies were only weighed on them when they were very small (though Mum’s old scales weighed up to 20 lbs).

            I remember the district nurse carried a pull down spring scale with a hook and put the babies in a sort of net shopping bag. Anglers use similar ones for fish. But I don’t think even a very obliging small dog would like that sort of treatment!

            I have taught the girls at the vets not to come to check the reading. If they stay out of sight the bundle of bounce will sit still for me and let me get an accurate weight. If anyone else appears she is far too busy trying to greet them enthusiastically to keep still enough.

            The things we do for these companion animals of ours….

      1. The DT lit the woodburner over 2½h ago and I’m about to light the fire here in the sitting room.

  35. Question Time epitomises the decline of the BBC. 27 November 2020

    If the BBC is to survive, it needs to reverse the trend of dumbing down, and stop trying to pander to younger viewers. Instead, it should focus on what its current audience actually wants, because that never changes. This demographic are switching off in disgust because “Countryfile” has supplanted nature with social justice, “Newsnight” launches polemics in the intro, and the comedy is being sanitised. What people want is for standards to be consistently maintained; in time, even today’s young will come to appreciate that, if its still around when they too hit their later years.

    Hand in hand with that comes rejecting a culture of increasingly shrill, intolerant hostility. We all know that’s how the wokest work — and it is crippling programming. Question Time is perhaps the highest profile offender; a show that entrenches division and does nothing to further constructive dialogue or reach political or social solutions to the problems of the age. Whilst scrutiny remains vital, this programme no longer is. If it can’t be improved, maybe it’s time to let it go before it becomes embarrassing.

    The last line might apply to the BBC as a whole. The truth is that it is unreformable. It’s been hijacked by the wokies and no one in their right mind wants to watch it. Just shut the damn thing down and cancel the licence!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/27/question-time-epitomises-decline-bbc/?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-rhr

    1. Meanwhile in the real world, the BBC brand is regarded as “Important, Essential, Trustworthy, Good value and Informative” according to recent YouGov research and the BBC is a crucial factor in the UK being, once again, top of the the Soft Power Index. None of this matters to the nihilistic alt-right who find a voice on obscure internet sites and whose views are aligned to those in the post above. These people only seek to destroy; they’d destroy the BBC (e.g “just shut the damn thing down”), they’d destroy the ‘Mother of Parliaments’ because it’s not dominated by UKIP, they’d destroy our Monarchy because a prince married a mixed race women. Thankfully the world is turning against their like.

          1. I posted several responses to this insulting garbage when you first posted it a fortnight ago.

          2. None of which were coherent and none got upvotes except from the usual suspects. On that note, I see your anti-British pro-Russian friend has upvoted you; well done, perhaps she’ll lend you her collection of Putin porn.

          3. They were proper responses to your alarmingly unhinged view that the world is making beautiful progress that is in danger of being undone by the ‘nihilist alt-right’.

            Your Russian references, quite apart from being childish, are indications of your increasingly irrational mindset. You are becoming hysterical.

          6. It’s not my intolerance Billy boy, it’s fate. It’s the fate of you and your fellow travellers, the nihilistic alt-right who want to destroy all that is great about Great Britain just because not every institution shares your views.

          7. Every time you post this I laugh even more! The ‘nihilistic alt-right’ is a fringe who present no threat. You mistake it for the growing number of people who are uneasy with and are beginning to oppose the ‘progressive’ [sic] internationalist forces at work, from the EU to Antifa, and who distance themselves from your ‘nihilistic alt-right’.

          8. The nihilistic alt-right are epitomised by the original post who wants to scrap the BBC, most likely because they report the facts and not conspiracy theories about events such as Salisbury. This upsets the alt-right because they know most people trust the BBC as a source of news, so the BBC is a threat to their spreading of Russian propaganda. But hey, if you want to align yourself to the pro-Russian troll on this forum, ok, it’s a free country (yes it really is).

          9. Stop exaggerating. People who are fed up with the BBC are not ‘nihilistic alt-right’.

            And I am no more ‘aligned’ with the ‘pro-Russian troll’ because of one opinion on one subject than I would be aligned with you if we were to agree on something.

          10. Good. I’m please to hear that you disagree with her support of a hostile power with regard to Salisbury.

  36. Good Morning all, I have now almost recovered my usual equanimity after two days of railing against the iniquity of being placed in Tier 3, in part this was down to a determined effort to ignore what was going on and immerse myself in the past in the company of my much better half , good red and a classic film. Thursday night we watched Brief Encounter with a nice Cab.Sav. and even given the cut glass accents and attitudes of the time still managed to make me moist around the eyes at the end. Last night we watched Top Hat, a wonderful selection of songs and dance routines loosely held together with an improbable plot all accompanied by a whole bottle of Black Stump. Tonight it’s Some Like It Hot and Sunday Calamity Jane, that should do the trick and I’m expecting a delivery from Laithwaite’s on Monday to make sure the blood in my alcohol stream is kept acceptably low .

        1. We’ll see! If it’s as good as Black Stump it’ll be a winner.
          Nice incognito post by the way…….

        4. That’s a new one on me.
          I still have a couple of BS plus a couple of the Reserve and a 50th anniversary.
          The reserve is Shiraz.

        5. ‘Morning, Datz, although Black Duck Durif 2020 is a red, the bottle shape tells me it’s probably a Burgundy. It certainly wouldn’t be a claret with a name like that. That reminds me of a father’s advice to a son:

          Don’t drink a claret under 10 years old;
          Don’t hunt south of the Thames – the bastards use wire and…
          Don’t marry a woman with big hands – it’ll make you feel inadequate.

    2. “Hannibal Brooks”. A 70’s confection that is funny and contains Oliver Reed before his liver gave out.

    1. I think they’ve been doing seminars at 77 Brigade their posts all read like they were written by clones!

    2. The 77 Brigade seem to have very limited vocabularies! They only know words beginning with F……..

      .

  39. Anti-lockdown protesters clash with police in London. 28 November 2020.

    Police had been attempting to disperse the protesters, arguing the demonstration was unlawful under coronavirus bans on gatherings.

    Officers faced booing from demonstrators and chants of “shame on you” as they intervened. Traffic was temporarily blocked on Regent Street as officers attempted to handcuff people on the ground in the middle of the road.

    This is the deeply sanitised version that will be shown on TV as well. The reality can be seen here! The Stasi violently attacking peaceful demonstrators!

    https://twitter.com/hashtag/londonprotest?lang=en

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/28/met-police-anti-lockdown-protest-london

  40. Just spent 50 minutes on the phone – 40 of which listening to the “music” – to my bank while some half-wit tries to understand a simple question; which she finally had to refer to a “manager” and will ring me back. Apparently.

    I closed an account at the bank on 2 November and the proceeds were paid into my current account. I know how much. It is in my bank statement etc etc. My simple question: How much interest was included in the sum transferred? Difficult? Complicated? Impossible to understand? I think not…. But it IS if you work for the bank….

    And, of course, the effing Plague is blamed for the delays and inconvenience…. GRRRR

    I’ll find a cat to comfort me …

    1. OH couldn’t access his current account the other day online so decided to go to the branch. He found they were only letting one person in at one time, and after waiting in the cold for half an hour he left and came home.

      1. Again, there is a suggestion that it is all OUR fault….. Apart from branches, where staffing might be a problem (though it isn’t in supermarkets, DIY stores etc etc)…I cannot see why the “back office” and call centre activity of the bank should be affected in any way.

      1. The child appeared to be unaware that the bank for which she works pays interest on savings accounts…..

        And that income tax is payable on interest…..

    1. That crowd looked pretty peaceful in the earlier pics. Shame the authorities can’t respect that.

    4. It means that if you are going to build your product in China, you had best have a Chinese partner or you will get screwed!

      Maybe, perhaps that is it.

  44. Good Moaning.
    Some good news (sorry, Eeyore).
    My picture framer, who is a young chap working on his own, has so much work, that he can’t deal with my second tapestry until mid-January.
    A bummer for me, but darn good news for him.

      1. No. We plan to pair it up with the one I did a few weeks back.
        No rush; I’d rather give the trade to a local chap.

        1. You have all my sympathy, Rastus – although it won’t pay the mortgage one tiny jot, I’m afraid. :-((

    3. Where does the GDPR come into this? Presumably local councils are passing info to this company but where are they getting financial info from?

      2. They are using covid to bypass all our freedoms.

        Supermarkets probably sell all our data. They can extrapolate a lot from what we spend.

          2. Good point. The issue really comes down to the use firms make of the data they collect. Personally I like Amazon making suggestions when I’m browsing for a new book, not sure I want my council to know about my sexual history though!

          3. Can’t see how the Council can know whether or not you’re having “safe sex” or indeed, any sex at all, unless, like many of the younger generation,you boast about your sexual exploits/activities online.

            So it seems this kind of surveillance is quite useless as far as its stated purpose “to protect the old and vulnerable” is concerned because that demographic is the least likely to detail their sex-lives on social media.

          4. I agree and I suspect the DM is exaggerating that bit. We should be vigilant about how our data is used, although in this case I’m not convinced councils have actually done more than use basic demographic data to identify households that might need extra help during lockdown.

          5. Someone should try it out. Buy a lot more booze than normal, order in a dozen pizzas and post an invite on Facebook to your end of November party. If the DM is being truthful, you will need a new front door very soon.

            A lot of what the DM is writing is possible, nowadays we just have to hope that local councils are not exceeding their remit in this way.

            With all of these lockdowns, quarantines and every other restriction being imposed, it would make the enforcers job a lot easier if they could see spending records to identify the naughty ones.

          7. oh go on, be brave see what happens. Our Canadian police use their guns so I would not want to upset them over a pizza.

          8. Years ago, the Conservative party spent a bomb on a system known as Voter Vault. It collated information about address, car ownership, shopping habits so as to point activists towards potential voters.
            However; it was an American system and was designed to deal with just two parties. In Britain there are more, and in Colchester a large LibDem vote.
            LibDems tend to live in much the same areas as Conservatives and have very similar attitudes to education, shopping, car ownership etc….
            Shall we just say that the system was not terribly successful, other than reminding LD voters that an election was imminent.

          12. Your individual choices are noted. The amount you spend is noted. The frequency is noted.

            Then there is a lot of other information about you floating out there. You are on social media. You run a charity. Foreign holidays.

            All these things and more give them a handle on you. They build a picture which they can extrapolate to fit you into a a type.

      3. If you really want a shock – when a site says “Accept cookies” go into the “manage cookies” list instead Some on that list have their own sub-lists. I went into one years ago – and discovered a list of over 400 companies that the info it robbed off my comp was handed to. It may have been the biggest of any site – but I seriously doubt it. I have never put my own details into my comp. No name, no address, no phone numbers. no DoB.
        People have called me a “dinosaur” because of it, but I have never had my bank account hacked. The bank has tried to pressurise me into online banking. I refuse point blank. I even get scam emails suppsedly from my ( kept up to date annually) anti-virus – I just cancel and ignore them.

        1. Good point Walter. Alf and I now always manage cookies rather than accept all but I’m sure past usage has been recorded by someone somewhere. We do our banking online but only using iPads, never phones. So far never been hacked. Touch wood!

  46. Completely off topic.

    The old PC finally gave up the ghost, luckily just after I had ordered a new Dell.
    Order went in on Thursday, PC arrived this afternoon.
    Now I am discovering all the passwords that I’ve forgotten.
    I’m progressing slowly with getting stuff sorted out, but windows 10 is a completely different kettle of fish.

    Ugh.

    1. We did wonder whether you had keeled over. Glad you didn’t!

      My son has a tip for passwords. Find one that you can always remember. “Rhubarb” for example. Then simply add five letters/symbols for each site where you need one. Thus: Rhubarbbank1 Rhubarbamaz1 etc etc.

      1. I was told similarly, ideally a very complex one.

        Most of the sites in question had “auto-fill” and I’ve used them for years.
        Unfortunately one of the ones I forgot was the auto-filler and I’ve had to re-register and it’s eliminated all my records.

        Oops!

        1. Quite – complex natch – my suggestion was merely an illustration. The vital thing is to remember the main part….{:¬))

          1. Your son’s method is similar to the way I do the more recent ones.

            Unfortunately it makes them easier to guess if a site gets compromised.

          2. The MR’s IT wizard nephew said that any fule can work out a password in seconds….{:¬((((

          3. When the issue of general usage PC security was in its infancy I attended a lecture where the expert usually took seconds to find it out, using a brute force approach. Hence the complexity advice.

          1. it isn’t always the passwords that get me, it is those “secret questions” that they pup up with when they detect a new device is being used to log on.

          3. It generates a strong password which is much less likely to be hacked. I never use the same one for different sites.

          5. The best kind of password is to pick a phrase with numbers and proper nouns such as “I was born at 32 London Road and have two sisters” and use the initials of each word so your password would be
            Iwba32LRah2s

            (n.b. I wasn’t and I don’t)

          6. I used to use that system, but then I forgot the sentences, so it was just a long random string ! I have another system now .-)

          7. I have that, but it means I can only use my own PC.

            For some sites I don’t want to synchronize across more than one and the generated ones are impossible to recall.

      2. It would help if all sites had the same password requirements.
        Some have to be min six characters, some a minimum of eight.
        Some say it must be alphanumeric including at last one number, some don’t need a number
        Some must have a special character, some won’t allow a special character.
        It can’t be beyond the wit and power of yer Gateses and Bezoses to mandate a worldwide standard.
        I have a list of forty three different accounts that I need to use for work; there is a combination of about four different user name formats I have to use but almost all forty need a different password format.
        And they tell us not to write them down!

    2. We did wonder whether you had keeled over. Glad you didn’t!

      My son has a tip for passwords. Find one that you can always remember. “Rhubarb” for example. Then simply add five letters/symbols for each site where you need one. Thus: Rhubarbbank1 Rhubarbamaz1 etc etc.

    3. I quite like Win 10. Have many fewer issues than other editions of Win, the worst ever being Windows ME…

        1. Keeps you occupied during confinement And out of HG’s way…. And away from here….{:¬))

      2. I put Win10 on my PC 18 months ago. It was effectively a new installation as I had it installed on a new solid state disc. I’ve had no problems with it, although I have been wary of the update facility and once or twice had to block a couple that wouldn’t load.

        Previous versions? XP was beautifully simple to use but after five years of use couldn’t take another defrag and gave up on me. I then acquired a new PC (the one I’m using now) and put Win7 on it but that died mysteriously after seven years so it was up to Win10. The only nervous moment was this week’s major update (v2004) but it was done in 40 minutes without a hitch.

      1. I’m dead chuffed with a Microsoft Surface – a tablet with pop-on/off keyboard, all solid state, absolutely excellent. A bit pricey, though.
        It’s what a pc should be. IMHO.

        1. Am I the only contributor on this forum who has never … ever … owned—or used—a computer using any form of Microsoft Windows software?

      2. Don’t be talked into buying the most expensive, all singing all dancing machine out there. Unless you are a secret online game player, you don’t need 7 core cpus, fancy graphics cards and terabytes of storage.

        It’s probably the feel of the keyboard and the image on the screen that are most important, everything else is most likely to be the same Chinese chips. Maybe one of those fancy touch screen pcs will appeal although I find it off-putting to keep reaching out to tap the screen.

        Probably any middle of the pack name brand machine will do.

      3. I’m definitely not the one to ask, sorry.

        I looked for price range and storage capacity and reviews by other people and a brand I recognized.

        Not remotely sophisticated but I wanted something that seemed simple (Famous last words)

    5. Time to turn off the auto update if you are now on win10, it has been nothing but trouble when updates are first rolled out,
      Well you cannot actually turn them off, just delay them for about 30 days, by which time Microsoft might have sorted the thing out.

  47. The Independent reporting that more than 60 people have been arrested at the anti-lockdown protesters in London.

  48. An hour a half after the bank child said she would ring back, she did. The interest figure was provided – again, with the implication that I was rather stupid not to have worked it out myself – from no available info! So she spent two and a half hours dealing with one, very simple, question….

    No wonder bank charges mount.

  50. The Wail tells me that Glove is lecturing Tory MPs about “not shirking their responsibilities” – ie support the govt or die.

    He is a poisonous little wanqueur.

    1. He has got his eye on his own chances by honing the population’s anger with Boris. He’s got to keep that fire alight.

    3. I’m afraid I have a nasty suspicious mind.
      Boris knows that people are very unhappy about his party’s treatment of this pandemic, and the lockdowns. So what better than a carefully planned “rebellion”, to reassure people that the Conservatives care about your best interests? Of course, the numbers rebelling would be carefully controlled, to ensure that the vote would go the way the Government wants.
      This is how oxford Union elections are run, and Boris and Michael Gove were both very successful Union plotters in their day. Judging by Boris’s masterly campaign to be Tory leader, he is still practicing the same tactics.

  51. Wait a while as I share a story

    Today, imagine a tired, poor sleeping man waking early on a cold, frosty morning to the patting of a giant paw.

    Imagine said man putting on a dressing gown and letting said paw owner outside to do his usuals – because he too and has forgotten any sense of time, space and routine.

    Now imagine said child of said man dashing past said man as said man nurses cold coffee.

    Said child now outside in near freezing air in pyjamas playing with said beast.

    Man arranges child, man and beast to go for a walk to wake up and let said wife of said man sleep in.

    2 hours pass…

    Said man, child and beast return covered in mud, goo and water as said dog found a blasted ice covered lake and leapt into it.

    Now, does said beast obey man as he runs bath for said child?

    Yes! he does. Until said child dashes in to see said wife and brings said beast – soaking wet, freezing cold and covered in mud with him.

    Said wife’s screams echo through the house, said man arrives and gets verbal cannonade to the face. Said dog runs for it. Said child runs after said dog.

    Said bath overflows. Said floor turns into puddle. Said wife continues to scream.

    5 minutes pass and said child is in bath – said water mopped up by laying said beast in it.

    Said wife has new bedsheets, hot fresh coffee, porridge and is now asleep again.

    This is good, as it gives me a chance to try to get the river of mud caused by boots and paws off the stairs.

    Said man, child and beast are all in the dog house for the weekend.

        1. Morning, G !
          Not sure if it’s a good one – can’t see any further than the bushes just outside the window.
          J just got back from his trip to Waitrose for the paper and a few bits and pieces.

    2. He doesn’t need to duck and cover, the globalists are protecting him. He’s armour-plated! The US has apparently just elected someone who appears to be more openly involved with corruption than any president in history*.

      *at the time of their election…

  53. “Funny” NHS story. The consultant at NNUH (Dr A) treating my asthma told me during the week that he was arranging a CT scan of my lungs.

    This morning a letter arrived with an appointment for 21 December. I looked at it and saw that the consultant’s name (Dr H) was wrong.

    A bit later the MR reminded me that Dr H saw me on 13 August and ordered a CT Scan…. The appointment was for the scan ordered by Dr H on 13 August….. To see whether I had a heart condition… Only 4 months delay – World class, eh?

    I am going to see whether Dr A can swap that appointment for the one HE wants for my lungs… 99% impossible, I reckon.

    Must remember to clap…(sarc)

    1. “Must remember to clap…(sarc)”

      Was that a typo, Bill? Did you mean to say “Must remember too …. clap”?
      ;¬)

  55. Well – OT – some good news. Just had an hour’s Skype with my elder son. He, at the age of 54, has got a new job which he is thrilled about. All four of his children (and step-children) are in gainful employment and are happy in the work.

    What a breath of fresh air in this doleful world. I thought I’d share it. The only downside was that it is foggy in West Gloucestershire and he can’t go deer stalking.

    1. The deer will live for another day. It’s thick fog here. Don’t let him come for our Mr Roebuck.

      1. He shoots with a chap who has a herd and has to cull 25 a year to keep numbers right. Don’t worry.

          10. ha! That’s what you think. Rural robbers are very white skinned, I can assure you. But definitely a protected minority.

    7. What a scruffy man he is, to be sure.

      Ill-fitting, creased suit, his gut pushing out, leaving his shirt in unsightly creases, and his hair looking as if he just got out of bed.

      And this is what “leads” us…

        1. Not exactly; he pursued them with vigour and the weaker ones succumbed. His former wife Allegra was apparently one of the most attractive women at Oggsford, and that appealed to his competitive nature.

          1. I thought it was because he liked her classical name – ditto Marina. Or did he just like cars? Is Carrie a car?

          2. Talking of Allegra – there is a nice Handel opera on R3 shortly – one of the little known ones.

      2. 326899+ up ticks,
        Evening DM,
        He heard the call to action as did
        major, cameron, clegg, may, ongoing.

        1. The only difference is how far and how long you can exercise for. They didn’t even bother to change the date. I will continue to use the old one which I fill in using a pencil so I can erase and change as necessary to save on ink and trees.

          1. Sur votre bonce, be it, matey.

            Any jobsworth flic will have you for not using the new format.

            And completing it in PENCIL is a capital offence. Dozens of natives have been fined for doing just that.

            Still, they say food in a French prison is not bad…especially over Christmas and Ramadan.

    3. yer traduction anglais states ‘rues’ instead of ‘rules’. In last week’s Spectator, Jeremy Clarke mentioned that one of his elderly neighbours was penalised by a gend’arme for gathering fungi in the woods, which was a breach of her attestation.

    1. “… It’s the perfect detention centre. When full, just tow it back to France and empty SINK.

    3. What about all those cruise liners hanging about near Weymouth?
      I doubt all will ever be needed again.

    4. I stayed in one of those while working in Shetland a few years ago. It was originally built in the Netherlands and had been used there for the detention of asylum seekers. The cabin doors were quite heavy and the former observation panels had been welded over. If the Dutch can do it, why can’t we?

      1. NO they haven’t. There is a Bill before their funny parliament – which is being hotly debated and disputed.

    2. They did not stop him because he had a camera. They were bringing people the other way in handcuffs. There will have been something happening at the other end and they were keeping the public away.
      We need to know what happened instead of getting fixated.

    3. The proposed ban on filming the pigs is why thousands of yer French are protesting in Paris today.

  63. I had a bit of thought the other day, just remembered it,
    This pandemic appears to coincide with the latest government and NHS initiative of reducing the amount of antibiotics.
    Only I remember when they did the same thing in the 1990’s, I ended up with pleurisy and pneumonia after being denied antibiotics after two visits to a doctor.

    1. They were too handy with them which reduced their usefulness. The only one I use is Doxycycline as an anti-malarial when I go to Africa. I think my last prescribed antibiotic was over 20 years ago.

    1. Sometime in my semi-slumbers, I heard that at least 40 conservative MPs were ready to vote down the reduction in aid. Is there no end to their treachery.

      1. Foreign Aid has long been called Mercedes Money.

        How many Mercedes cars have to be bought in African countries before Mercedes give a ‘top of the range’ car as a ‘gift’ to the person who saw to it that the money was sent to Africa?

    1. Heck. Do you suppose some Eytie will be knocking on our door because the builders of Allan Towers disturbed his Great++++++++++++++++++++ grandmother’s grave in 1882?

  67. That’s me for this very dull and dreary day – apart from the brilliant news from my elder son. And Gus and Pickles, of course.

    I shall hope to join you tomorrow.

    A demain

    1. Lots of people have put lights up in their garden trees. It’s been festive here for a couple of weeks.

      1. People passing the time with nothing else to do.
        We don’t have any yet. Normally buy in the New Year at reduced prices. Yes I know we’re skinflints. :-))

      1. 326899+ up ticks,
        Evening C,
        And it would not surprise me in the least to hear Liverpool was hit before Birmingham.

        1. Morning Ogga, drones are far more accurate. One day they could be used to hit the homes of the anti-British amongst us.

    2. 326899+ up ticks,
      Evening TB,
      The treachery as shown to Gerard Batten as UKIP leader was a “in your face” prime
      example of treacherous input from the party Nec & “nige”

    2. Growing fast,I find the “Which one shall we kill and eat first” expression in their eyes mildly disturbing……………..

        1. That is just what I thought!! And when you find yourself another chair, that too will be taken over!

          1. Keep the bedroom door closed, or the little furry buggers will be on your side of the bed, too!

          2. And then be woken up during the night to the sound of scratching claws and loud meows, “let us in” ;-))

        1. My last died 10 yrs ago, at the age of 22yrs, I still miss him! He had a sister, who really was a ‘sour puss’ and always kept him in his place, until she died well before him.

          1. 22 is a splendid age for a cat – I’ve not managed one older than 18. But they are all missed and never forgotten.

          2. I’ve just bought a new hammock and scratching thing for our two and as usual with anything new in the house, they are rushing around the house like loons and Dobbie (naked cat) has just taken a swipe at poor old doglet!

      1. Nice try, but not me. Apparently there’s a correlation with loving a certain foreign despot…

    2. But i thought we were supposed to wash our hands constantly. Nobody said anything about taking a shower. No wonder my little dog looks at me funny. 🙁

  76. I’m off now to make a fish pie, eat it, have a glass or two and then watch the Icelandic drama on B4.

    Catch you tomorrow. Try not to upset each other.

    2. Hmmm … J.

      Last evening you left us with a restful message!!
      This evening we will endeavour to do our best!!

      Enjoy the fish pie … Love it!!

      1. I’m off then. Don’t want to be here when the pooh hits the proverbial.

        ***The expression when hunting my dear Garlands is Tally-Ho. Not and i repeat not….There goes the bastard !

        Toodle pip ! 🙂

      1. Couldn’t remember – but it’s all unremitting gloom and doom. Very grim. Could be addictive, but not quite as good as The Bridge.

    1. They are queueing for tickets for the next ‘Rainbow Dance Spectacular’ with partner participation. Ooh! Cyril, I wonder who we’ll get to dance with. I hope it’s someone from the BBC’s Gender Bender Fan Club.

    1. I don’t understand why someone people swear continually they assume other people do.

      It’s disgusting, unacceptable and marks the indvidual as sub human.

  79. Nicked

    “The people who are instructing the police to go round student halls counting
    numbers of students, are exactly the people who did nothing for months
    as people screamed at them to stop the flights from China.

    The people who are criminalising non-mask wearing are the same people who
    insisted masks were a waste of time and in fact counter-productive.

    The people who told us that a cheap, simple drug that’s been around for 70
    years had suddenly become so dangerous our GPs couldn’t possibly
    prescribe it, are the same people that tell us novel mRNA vaccines
    pushed through in record time are completely safe and you will be forced
    to have them.

    I’ve never lived in a time of such total absurdity.”
    Ain’t THAT the bloody truth !!!

    2. 326899+ up ticks,
      Afternoon Rik,
      By the same token you will find in the main it is the same peoples that continue to support the same people in the same party’s that are constructing / activating
      this odious fodder for fools sh!te.

  80. Much amusement here. Mrs Cochrane has cooked a chicken curry, but she’s used the wrong chilli. She’s used a Carolina Reaper instead of the ‘moderate heat’ chili I bought earlier in Sainsbury.

    1. Having Caroline Reaper chillies in the house, but normally using medium chillies for cooking, sounds crazy, unless she’s trying to do you in. Just chopping them will need minutes of handwashing to be safe.

        1. Me too (on my left hand), even with garlic and onions. For some reason they seem to dissolve my skin, love eating them though.

        2. I’m inclined to take the view that anything which requires techniques more suited to the laboratory than the kitchen isn’t a foodstuff 😉

    2. Ooo… let it get cold, and have it for breakfast. It’ll be milder, and a wake-up for your tastebuds!

        1. Not in our household… of course, a dab of plain yoghurt might be needed (strawberry doesn’t go well!)
          Breakfast curry is much better than supper curry.

          2. No, just no 😉 Curry, like kippers, is just too much at breakfast. Probably OK if you are a morning person… I’m not.

          5. I only eat breakfast when there’s plenty of time to relax over it – otherwise, it’s coffee, pills & go. Then more coffee. Followed by another coffee… 🙂

          6. I used to eat breakfast with great enthusiasm when I’d done at least 2 hours outdoor work before it… but that was long ago and far away.

            Nowadays it’s only on the occasional hotel stay that I eat more than a spoonful of yoghurt – and lots of coffee. My less kind friends have suggested that my coffee should be supplied intravenously till noon…

          7. These days, I coffee until after lunch, then switch to tea – often ginger & lemon, to wind the caffeine down a bit.
            If there’s good coffee available, I prefer espresso – not the smooth, nancy type, but a hard, bitter version. Lovely!

          8. A lot depends on what sort of day it is. If I’ve got a knotty problem then I tend to go on drinking coffee. If I’m doing a long night drive (haven’t done one of those for a while) then I’ll drink coffee in the evening too.

            I’m a regular insomniac regardless of the quantity of caffeine anyway.

          9. I have the opposite problem. I could sleep for Europe in the sleeping Ryder Cup. Any time, any place, anywhere… zzz…

          10. I’m usually sleepy when it’s time to get up… but mostly because I haven’t slept enough between midnight and alarm time.

          11. My son, as a teenager, would often scoff down any leftover slices of pizza, straight out of the fridge, for breakfast!!

          13. Which involves neither curry nor kippers.

            I love it too, but more often for a winter supper.

      2. Obs, why does this joke spring to mind reading your post? Breakfast curry indeed.

        Two men are drinking in a bar at the top of the Empire State Building.
        First says to the other, “I discovered last week that if you jump from the top of this building, the winds whipping around the skyscrapers will stop your fall and blow you right back up here.”
        “No way,” replied the second man.
        “Here, I’ll prove it,” said the first, and he jumped out the window. As he predicted, he fell a few feet and then returned right back through the window.
        “Amazing!” exclaimed the second man, “Let me try that.” He jumped, and fell all the way to the pavement below.
        The bartender says to the first man, “You know, Superman, sometimes you’re not very funny.

    1. All of the debt that western countries are building up is probably held by someone. Could that be China as well?

    4. now that is truly shocking. I remember once seeing a rather bulky policeman arresting a young, thin guy. i thought the arrested man would escape because he looked more able to run, but the police man was far faster. That lot in the video above are a disgrace.

    1. They agreed to double the number of French police patrolling a 150km stretch of coastline targeted by people-smuggling networks

      Double zero is zero.

  84. I’m getting to terms with W10.
    OK, let’s see if the spellchecker knows the difference between English and Yanklish:
    Realise realize.
    Harrumph, both show as correct.
    Any suggestions?

      2. Always fun getting Amuhricahns to say ‘battle of Hastings’. They pronounce it as baydull o’ hayduns’.

        ‘Cos dey is dumb.

        2. American pronunciation isn’t always dumb. When I worked in a US organisation, I was teased by saying “shedule” rather than the American “skedule”. When I replied that “shedule” was the correct pronunciation, I was asked if I learnt that at “shool”.

          1. Remember getting a ticking off from a friend from Oxfordshire for saying Abington … had to find an atlas to show him that there is such a place

    2. Practise and license is a noun in one language and a verb in the other. Likewise, practice and licence is the other way round.

    1. I am reminded of what Peter Cook told Dudley he had said to Jane Russel who, he claimed, had taken off most – but not all – of her clothes when she came clandestinely to his room: “And your bra and panties!”

    1. Good evening, ogga

      Many of us here like Batten and think he is considerably better than most of our abysmal MPs.

      If only there was not so much in-fighting in his party more people would vote for him

      1. 326933+ up ticks,
        Morning R,
        I posted just as a comparison in leadership and a lost opportunity.
        As with all party’s there was internal squabbles.
        In UKIPs case controlled tory sleepers as revealed by the take down of a building & returning to political credibility, patriotic party.

        IMHO when the Nec triggered the take down via Batten the patriotic
        core members,in time also
        Batten / Braine left the party,leaving only the dregs pf treachery.

        You have now the lab/lib/con/ukip
        coalition party.

        Plus, sad to say a GE tomorrow
        would see very little change in the voting pattern, the political three monkeys are a formidable force
        when active among the ovis.

  87. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8995941/Coronavirus-UK-Anti-lockdown-protestor-bursts-tears-police-arrest-him.html

    No comments allowed. The state does not like dissent.

    Let’s compare that with this shall we:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/358be3c7929c44a148b0f2757b656efa777f043da35300896340d38318e722cd.png

    That’s the police running from the black looting mob. No arrests there. Looting , rioting, property destruction, vandalism, statues destroyed.

    The difference is those being arrested have said no to big state.

    2. So they would have the covid vaccine distributed at least eighteen months after analysis starts, not the nine months that is happening (assuming secret labs didn’t start work in mid 2019)..

      1. Richard morning, given Billy boy Gates signed off with UK Govt in Jan 2019, your point re labs gearing up in 2019 is a lot more accurate. And given the precedents of Billy boy before, quality will never be a factor

    3. Hang on, I thought the vaccine was due to be distributed at the start of 2021.
      Either they started on the vaccine at the beginning of 2019 (a year before corona hit the headlines) or else that picture is wrong because the vaccine was developed in one year, not two. Which is it?

    1. It was the Graham Brady one that started me thinking “controlled opposition.” I refuse to read anything that BBC man Humphreys has to say!

      1. Humphreys had to toe the line while he was working – but he’s been gradually a bit more outspoken now.

          1. No one is prevented from speaking out. Farage “spoke out” whilst he was an MEP. There is no such conditionality attached to his pension or anyone else’s … it’s just another of those myths.

  91. 326899+up ticks,

    South Asian heritage predator Kamir Khan has been imprisoned for grooming and abusing an 11-year-old girl in Rotherham.

    breitbart,
    31-year-old Khan is the latest in a long line of abusers to be convicted for abusing girls and young women in Rotherham, where South Asian heritage gangs once preyed upon mostly white, working-class victims in untold numbers with near-impunity for years, due to the authorities’ reluctance to intervene in case they were accused of “racism”.
    Be out and active in 36 months.

    https://twitter.com/BreitbartLondon/status/1218873993257611264

    1. Does this mean if I want acrime to be ignored I just black up and grow a beard and wear pyjamas to go shopping?

      Crime is crime. The whole blasted point of justice is that it is blind – it doesn’t care what colour you are. If the police *are* going to start being bothered then it really, really needs to change.

      1. 436899+ up ticks,
        Evening Anne,
        So “bloody” true, I cannot get my head around why the ovis
        continue to enter the polling booth to replace a political hair shirt with yet another political hair shirt, recurring.

        .

    3. 326899+ up ticks,
      O2O,
      If only the same police zest & zeal, when calling a spade a spade was used in tackling the mass rape & abuse via paedophile actions (ongoing).

      Consequences of the lab/lib/con paedophile
      umbrella dangerously mass uncontrolled immigration coalition party.

      If only.

  92. DT

    Students want the word ‘black’ banned from textbooks and lectures
    Manchester University undergraduates say using the colour as an adjective is stemmed in ‘colonial history’ and is now outdated

    No BTL Comments allowed. Surprise! Surprise!

    Virtually every article in the DT on which I would like to read readers’ comments or express my own views does not carry the BTL facility.

    I would like to know readers’ views on this article on Manchester University students, on the Eton schoolmaster being sacked for not being politically correct and I would like to read the comments on Rowan Pelling’s article about the wretchedness of this tyrannical government.

    This Nottlers’ site gives us a rare chance to air our views so please let’s stop the petty squabbles and down-voting people we disapprove of or with whom we disagree!

      1. When my Mum used barley to eke out the mince when we were little, she called them blackamoors teeth! I expect she’d be marched off in handcuffs nowadays!

    2. It’s quite odd. Maybe it’s because the Left use labels to create an opponent? They are different, therefore I will label them.

      Describing someone as simply ‘black’ is merely a factual statement of description. It only becomes an issue when used as a weapon. Perhaps, yet again this is the Left trying to control language to attempt to control thought?

  93. Evening, all. Very late on parade tonight, largely because I’ve been catching up on the racing. Had two placed horses, but sorry to see that T_P’s horse pulled up. Hope he’s okay and it was just the ground.

  95. BREAKING NEWS

    Prime Minister, Boris Johnson, has announced a world-beating track & trace system, which will be structured within the current “Tier System” of lockdown, enabling the easy tracking of those who have been exposed to the Covid-19 virus. Speaking from Downing Street,he said:

    “As we approach the festive season, it is vital to track the virus so the Tiers may be adjusted accordingly. The data will be published online by SAGE. Christmas is approaching, and as it gets closer, it will be easy to trace the tracks of my Tiers.”

      1. I fear you are mistaken Bob3. I’ve seen comments like “the vaccine is not a cure-all, we need to keep all the restrictions”. Can’t provide a link, sorry, but the writing’s on the wall. The freedoms that have been taken away from us is unlikely to be given back any time soon. It suits them down to the ground.

        1. I have heard that from a few sources. The fabled vaccine will protect you from the serious symptoms but you could still catch the disease and pass it onto others. In todays politician speak that probably translates as stay at home, don’t go out.

          They are talking of a new swine based virus on the way so the vaccine will have no effect on life, you will be locked down anyway.

        2. The vaccine is going to be used in ‘care homes’ to start with. At the moment the care homes are the most isolated places in the country.
          After it’s bumped off the elderly they are coming for us………..
          Perhaps it should be used on know all the journalists next, they seems to move around the country with non liability and some sort of immunity. And then then house of lords (all old people) then the HOC only then if it’s deemed to be safe, the rest of the population, in limited areas to start with.

          1. I suggest all the MPs and their families are given it first. If they vote that it should be mandatory, or even if they don’t have a vote, they should be first.

            In any case any vaccine produced as if by a miracle, in such a short time, has not been proven safe. They take 10 years or even longer to produce with proper testing, double trialling, and are “authorised”.

          2. I suggest all the MPs and their families are given it first. If they vote that it should be mandatory, or even if they don’t have a vote, they should be first.

            I agree, but there’s no chance of that happening VW. There have been so many on line video clips with qualified people talking sense it’s become an overwhelming fact that the vaccine has not been tested properly.
            All we see on the MSM/N is a varied and changeable selection of ‘experts’ who all say the same thing. There is never a serious discussion as to the expectations of the vaccine programme. I firmly believe our political classes and the media have completely lost to plot and cannot admit their mistakes and it makes no difference to them how many people might die due to reactions of the vaccines as long as it’s not them or their families.
            Of course it’s quite possible that the very elderly and infirm will have a seriously deleterious refraction to the vaccine, but there will never be any admission or an apology. As some one in the bible once said, Forgive them lord they know not what they are doing.

          3. ‘Miracle Vaccines’ are generated swiftly by ‘Billion Dollar Contracts’; realistic medications take more time …

          6. We will soon find out how much trust politicians have in the vaccines, if they believe they will be front of the line.

            What happened to Putins vaccine after he had his daughter injected? Has Putin now been shot as well?

      1. They haven’t covered themselves in glory, accuracy of predictions, or sense of their pronouncements.

        4. Are you saying that sage don’t know their onions?

          Why not just tie a long piece of string to everyone? Then when someone tests positive, they can just rewind and see whose path they have crossed.

  97. Here’s one for Grizz: Search for “Gavin Webber” on Youtube – he gives instructions for how to make all kinds of cheese. Lovely!
    “G’Day, Curd Nerds” :-))

    1. I wonder how old that one is, and whether it’s a Washington Post competition one letter neologism winner.

      I first heard it in the early 1980’s and I still think it’s one of the best of its kind.

  101. I’ve just been out into the back garden and there is a white stork roosting on the roof of the house!

    No bambinos crying in the area!

      1. I’ve not got a long enough ladder to climb up and have a taste [and it’s far too dark to photograph it].

          1. Pity about the burnt ones (a baker writes…)…{:¬))

            I always turn my loaves through 180º half way through the baking.

          9. No, Eddy. The 6 on the left (different recipe) contain more sugar so went browner. They are far from burnt! There were three separate batches of six; all baked for 15 minutes at 200ºC.

          10. We have a Neff fan oven with so many different settings, I always have to move the bread up before it comes out to get the same effect on all of it.
            Top oven doesn’t have a fan so it is a different story. Your bake looks good though.

          11. I remember having a Neff oven and hob about 40 years ago: I loved it. This one is just a Husqvarna electric oven without fan. It is fairly accurate, temperature-wise, and doesn’t seem to have hot/cold spots.

            The only problem is that its doesn’t like to have two trays of anything (one above the other) in at the same time since it doesn’t cook them properly. Consequently I have to batch bake, but at 15 minutes each, it isn’t much of a problem.

          12. Ooh I do love a nice rich fruit teacake. It is something that the Canadians don’t understand so we get poor quality mass produced hot cross buns all year round.

          13. Used to go to tea in Taylor’s in the Stonegate, York at the end of a trip to town.

            Tea and coffee sales on the ground floor (breathe in that coffee fragrance as you head for the door to the stairs) then kitchens and loos one flight up and the tea-room at the top – on a floor so old and sloping (hither and thither) that one almost felt tipsy on the first visit and all the tables had floor length cloths to hide the various chocks keeping them level.

            It was always a toss up between a toasted teacake and cinnamon toast… I was never quite greedy enough to order both.

            Sadly, on my last visit to York I discovered that it had been taken over by Betty’s – not in the same class.

          14. I think that Betty’s is overrated. I visited a Betty’s in Northallerton just over two years ago. I bought a vanilla slice that looked so pretty it was almost twee. Unfortunately it was bland. A few days later I visited an old-fashioned independent baker’s shop in Knaresborough and bought the most delicious vanilla slice I’ve ever had in my life. The vanilla slices that I’ve baked today are delicious but not in the same league as that one from Knaresborough.

          15. Betty’s, like all too many businesses, thought that it could grow without having to make a proper effort to avoid losing standards. It failed. A lot of their stuff now is little better than Mr Kipling’s cakes, or not even as good. The shop in the Stonegate no longer has the aroma of ground coffee or assistants who knew their beverages selling loose teas and grinding (or supplying whole) coffee beans but grinning girls selling (since it was early March) dozens of identical iced cakes surmounted by Easter chicks/ducklings/bunnies etc. I wasn’t even tempted to venture upstairs, the cake I sampled (they were being quite generous with samples) wasn’t worth the climb…

            I remember being given tea in Betty’s in Harrogate almost 40 years ago, and it was excellent, but not now.

            I don’t bake things like tea-cakes… too much temptation to eat too many of them. But I do still, from time to time, indulge in cinnamon toast after a wet dog walk.

    2. German folklore held that a nest on a house was a protection against fires, and that a stork’s soul was human, the birds were also encouraged to nest on homes to bring good luck. And this despite living in close proximity to a nest not always an overwhelmingly pleasant experience, because they are very messy and hardly sweet smelling.

      There was also a custom in Germany that a family wanting children leave candy on a windowsill as a “message” for a stork. The bird would then find a baby in a cave or marsh, carry it in a basket either held in their beaks or on their backs, then drop the child down the correct chimney or give it to the mother.

      1. This one is just roosting, one-legged, on the roof ridge. It’s the wrong time of year for nesting so no problem there. There is usually a couple of pairs in and around the village in spring where they breed but it is rare that they overwinter.

        The one on the roof is probably the same one I had in the field behind the garden just a couple of weeks ago. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/be37e514a8dae23eefed7ab3f0d3b66f106947b5d54738581000d9c626484748.jpg

      2. Abroad I’ve seen platforms built on chimneys/roofs to encourage stork nesting. Strange habits these furriners have 🙂

  102. Good evening, all!

    Just logged on and I got a pop-up: France and Britain do historic deal to tackle Channel migrants with double the number of French police patrols and added surveillance

    Gosh, y0u don’t say! What about the last agreement we made and gave £000000s to France, and French official boats still “escort” gimmiegrants into British waters. That didn’t work out very well for us, did it?

    No new agreement for more surveillance by the French is going to make any difference. Patel is a fool. Fool her once, shame on her, fool her twice…she should be out.

    I’ve lost the link and can’t remember where it just came from – the Daily Fail, no doubt. Still, what a shower, eh?

    1. French fishermen blockading the UK – does that mean that the illegal immigrants won’t be able to land on the south coast of England?

      1. 326899+ up ticks,
        Evening A,
        Could never happen, hitler tried,
        anyway the illegals would get special dispensation status from both french / uk governance.

  104. Last test of the day.

    Turn off by trying to shut the system down.

    Good night, I may or may not return tomorrow.

    1. “I am just going outside and may be some time.”

      “Very well, Captain Oates.”

      “Now he’s gone, get the pork pies, crisps and wine out.”

    2. “I am just going outside and may be some time.”

      “Very well, Captain Oates.”

      “Now he’s gone, get the pork pies, crisps and wine out.”

      1. Forget the pork pies, I’ll bring the cheese and bikkies……it’s not yet wine’clock here ;-))

        1. What’s the time difference between you and the UK please Jill? I tend to get lost with the various regions.

          My brother lived in Manitoba when his children were small. He had three identical clocks on the wall of his office, one at local time, one showing what time it was with Scottish Granny and one showing the time with Nana in New Zealand. I have to say that his children got the meaning of time differences quite quickly and he remembered not to ring up at the wrong moments.

          I can do it if I try but I don’t know which US time zone you inhabit.

          2. Almost heaven then…

            From memory Manitoba was 6 hours behind but I always had to think about it. Now he is in NZ it’s really easy. Either 11 hours or 13 hours ahead depending on which of us is on “summer” time.

  106. Before I say goodnight here is a chilling headline from a DT story late tonight:

    Britons to get ‘vaccine stamps’ in their passports before overseas travel
    The inoculations would allow tourists to avoid being held up at borders if the international travel industry starts to pick up

    1. I commented a couple of days ago, when we first traveled to the US in the mid 70’s we needed a smallpox vaccination certificate in our passports before being allowed to fly from Heathrow, so nothing really surprising here.

      1. Smallpox has a MINIMUM lethality of 30% precautions are needed
        Covid appears to have a lethality of around 0.05%
        This is bullshit
        See Yellow fever for more details

        1. My point was that there have always been restrictions one way or another on foreign air travel, that’s all. I’m not disagreeing with your point of view! Have a good evening.

          1. No.

            You said it was not surprising.

            Whereas given the enormous difference in lethality, it is very surprising indeed.

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