Saturday 3 October: Sharp debate wanted on two paths – suppression or living with the virus

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its comments facility (now reinstated, but not as good as ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/10/02/letterssharp-debate-wanted-two-paths-suppression-living-virus/

725 thoughts on “Saturday 3 October: Sharp debate wanted on two paths – suppression or living with the virus”

      1. 324247+up ticks,
        Morning PM,
        Not so much as a rant as a test run on a return to common sense.

      2. I think it is too fact-based to be called a rant. I understand the caution at the start, when we saw Wuhan and northern Italy – but now we know a lot more about the virus, and the effects of things like Vitamin D in preventing severe cases. There is no excuse for these lockdowns.

        1. I realised at the time that ‘rant’ was perhaps demeaning (and monologue made it sound boring, which it most certainly was not – it was electrifying). I should have left it at ‘truly excellent!’. It was too early in the morning for my rusty cog wheels to be turning smoothly.

          1. 🙂 I didn’t mean to criticise either. Several cups of coffee are needed these days to get my brain in working order!
            Better go and have the second one now…

          5. One of my favourites!

            And have you heard this one?

            I can cope with my bifocals
            And my dentures I don’t mind
            I can even stand lumbago
            But, by God, I miss my mind.

  3. Very Good News Christmas isn’t cancelled – although no shopping, no drinking, no family visits, no parties, no church, no carols but other than that Christmas is going ahead.

    Most socialists wont notice any difference I expect.

      1. Yes’day I bought an extra bottle of Armagnac Teriquet XO at £6 discount. Christmas will be here sooner than we think.

        1. You inspired me to have a look at the Waitrose cellar,there I discovered a Delamain pale and dry on special offer
          That’s my Christmas pressie to me sorted
          Cheers Peddy

    2. I quite welcome Christmas’s going back to a less commercial affair. It had already become completely out of hand – there are some things for which to thank CV.

      1. Since, despite Bob3’s comment, there is no restriction on shopping I sadly suspect that the commercial aspect will go ahead as normal and the things that matter, like carol-singing and family meals, will be the main casualties.

        We long ago restricted gifts to one gift per adult from the whole family group (which works well because people get a sensible gift they want or need), but I had bronchitis last year and couldn’t drive north.. and this year it looks as though Nicola will be keeping me locked out of Scotland for the winter. I’m not seeing anything in that for which to be thankful.

  4. ‘Morning, Peeps.

    Now there’s an idea, although our myopic government will never agree to it:

    SIR – Two broadly different approaches to the Covid crisis can be discerned.

    1: Suppress the spread of infection until there is an effective vaccine that can be sufficiently produced and distributed.

    2: Learn to live with this endemic illness by protecting the vulnerable minority, while allowing the great majority, at low risk of serious illness, to get on with their family, social and economic lives.

    Proper debate, essential to good policy, has been inhibited by fragmentary, often superficial media analysis and a Parliament where the Government and Opposition both, essentially, agree with the first approach.

    Which broadcaster will set up the mature, considered, evidence-based debate to which the public is entitled? Ground rules would be needed, to exclude emotionalism, grandstanding and political point-scoring.

    It must be given at least two hours and include economists and educationalists, as well as doctors and epidemiologists. The real issues must be clearly identified in advance, with a precisely worded “motion” and the obligation for the participants to give each other prior notice of where they agree and disagree (with reasons).

    It should be moderated by someone with the authority to keep the participants courteously focused on the core disputed issues.

    His Honour Charles Wide QC
    Glapthorn, Northamptonshire

    2. Morning

      SIR – Fraser Nelson (“The public is ‘living without fear’. No 10 might want to do the same,” Comment, October 2) was spot on. From now on, we all need to do what we feel is right for ourselves, since government messages have been based on spurious data.

      I kept my business open throughout the lockdown and sales covered overheads. From June to September sales recovered and have exceeded the same period in 2019.

      I feel truly sorry for people struggling to keep their hospitality businesses afloat, in the face of ridiculous measures such as a 10pm closing time. The Government is plain wrong but cannot admit it. So ignore it and get on with life.

      David T Price

      Managing director, Oxfordshire Glass

      Banbury, Oxfordshire

      SIR – Many will share John Catchpole’s feelings (Letters, October 2) in missing a hug. Yesterday, as we left from a socially distanced family meeting, our five-year-old grandson blew me a kiss and said: “When the virus gets smaller, Grandma, we can have cuddles.”

      Jill Hay

      Colchester, Essex

      SIR – Can we look forward to the Government banning “trick or treat”?

      Jane Moth

      Snettisham, Norfolk

      SIR – Yesterday, I spotted an elderly gentleman smoking a pipe and at the same time trying to wear a face mask. It just makes one proud to be British.

      David Belcher

      Thatcham, Berkshire

      1. That’s a brave or foolhardy letter from David Price. He is of course perfectly correct; however, that will not stop the self-righteous vigilantes from descending on his business intent on ripping it limb from limb and accusing him of murdering people.

        1. He is, of course, 100% wrong, sitting as he does at the head of a non-hospitality business. No hospitality business, teetering on the brink of disaster already, can afford to pay the £10,000 fine for not kicking their customers out at 22:00, neither can they afford the prohibition order which will be slapped on their premises immediately.

          Individuals may have the choice to defy – businesses (with a vanishingly small number of exceptions) simply don’t.

      2. If Grandad gets a hug from a five-year-old, he’d get put on an offenders’ register for life and become an unperson socially.

    3. Charles Wide is spot on, but the intelligence required to organise and carry through such a debate does not exist in the media any more.

      You want someone to get emotional about hate crimes and accuse the British people of being racist? They’re your woman.

      Detailed, cool-headed analysis and debate? How dare you disagree with me, you bigot!

    4. Maybe we should not be treating this virus as if it were influenza, which responds to a vaccine, whereas the common cold, like most coronaviruses doesn’t much, if at all. Nor does it respond to antibiotics. The virus festers and thrives in confined spaces, be they in stuffy cells in flats or halls of residence or care homes or stuck behind three impermeable layers of damp, germ-infested cloth stuck to our faces.

      The best way to deal with the common cold is to improve our own general health and wellbeing, and the vast amount of Government borrowing spent on lockdown would surely be better spent on a campaign to get health and morale nationally in prime condition to take on the virus. National restaurants serving good food with lots of vitamins would go a long way, and also keep the pubs in business.

      Precisely the opposite of what is actually being done.

      1. Work camps for the obese. They could be sent there by train. Everything would be provided.

          1. Men to ze right, Vomen to ze left. Pick up your soap at the entrance, Schnell, schnell!

          4. and full central heating.
            In the UK a change of attitude is required; obesity should be much less acceptable, and it will take a generation, rather like the gradual transition that has occurred with tobacco smoking and also with drunk driving.
            Partly, I blame all those Caribbean workers who produce sugar for Europeans, leading to caries and diabetes on a massive scale.

      2. I make a point of spending a few hours out of doors each day. I have amassed enough logs – all cut by hand – to last us for years. The CH is not on yet but we are using the woodburning stoves in the evening.

    5. 324247+ up ticks,
      Morning HJ,
      First off then 650 NEW
      participants needed
      charlie, lets get started.

    6. The problem with Number 1: is that there is no reason to suppose that an effective vaccine will ever be found. One may hope but there is no certainty! Number 2: is the obvious path to go since it does not preclude the possibility of a vaccine but allows for its non-appearance!

    7. If there are to be debates, they should be done remotely and anonymously so that decisions can be made according to the best arguement and evidence and not as a political win or a way for scientists/doctors to massage their egos by making a name for themselves.

  5. Trumpton in hospital…

    SIR – Well, that’s one way of avoiding another disastrous presidential debate.

    Bernard Kerrison
    London SW4

    SIR – Can the pandemic no longer be called unpresidented?

    David Reynolds
    Bexhill-on-Sea, East Sussex

  6. Bonfires, burning leaves………young again in England.

    SIR – John Martin (Letters, October 1) wants to ban garden bonfires. What a dampenglee! Has he never roasted potatoes or singed marshmallows?

    As to the effect on the ecosystem, a puff of smoke is transient and the carbon dioxide emission is the same whether his pile of leaves is burnt quickly or left to decompose over time.

    Roger Whiteway

    Kibworth Beauchamp, Leicestershire

    1. Roger Whiteway is a culinary buffoon.

      You do not “roast” potatoes on a bonfire, you bake them! Roasting means cooking in fat, preferably around a joint of meat.

    2. Tut tut, Roger, ‘singed marshmallows’!

      Smores surely….even if it is an Americanism!

  7. Some GPs behave well, others have been and no doubt will remain,useless.

    SIR – Our doctor’s surgery has taken over the local church on Saturdays for flu jabs (Letters, October 1). There are four stations marked with different coloured balloons. We were asked to wear short sleeves, and were in and out in less than five minutes. Brilliant!

    Geraldine Davies

    Bristol

    SIR – My appointment for a flu jab at my surgery today is in a one-hour slot. Based on my husband’s experience, it will mean standing outside until told to enter, one person at a time. I’m in the vulnerable group and others will be, too. Heavy rain is forecast for our area – perhaps this is a cunning plan to give us all chills and kill some of us off.

    Sandra Crawley

    Shanklin, Isle of Wight

    2. This shift of churches into becoming church halls is happening in our area too. I don’t like it. The arguments put forward are always that there isn’t enough money, they have to help people or they have to appeal to everyone in the community.
      But in the past, there has always been a clear divide between the church hall, where secular do-gooding happened, and the church itself which was reserved for the Almighty.
      One church in our area has even had its side chapel converted into a meeting room. The back of the church is now essentially a “community space” which can be borrowed by the church when needed for services. Only the nave is left as a dedicated place of worship. The pews of course, are long gone.
      During the virus, we have seen notices on the doors describing the church as a “special space” – no mention of God’s house.
      Once the atheists or people from other religions feel that the church belongs to them too, God will very soon be shifted out.

      We had a curate this summer, and I swear if I hear one more of her sermons, I will start a left wing buzzword bingo sheet behind the pew to while the tedious minutes away. I am still upset about her smug, marxist sermon about refugees in which she referred to “We, in our comfortable homes…” Speak for yourself lady – at least one family in the congregation was in the middle of a housing crisis involving someone becoming homeless. As always, the Marxists are the least compassionate and the quickest to jump to conclusions.

      1. Don’t forget “Messy Church” – where part of the church is turning into a tip.

        1. “He’s the Messyiah!”
          “No he’s not he’s just a naughty boy”

          (Best I can do with a stinking cold….)

      2. In our small village, (Pop 117 @ 2011 census) we have no pub, school, shop or village hall, so the church building (C13th Century) serves as the hub. We have coffee mornings, we used to have quizzes (now done on Zoom) we had Saturday Morning sessions for the children to decorate large oaten biscuits, we are on a National Cycle Route and we have just raised over £100,000 to have a kitchen and toilet extension built. I think, if He’s there, the Almighty will be Almighty pleased that we are all welcome in His house.

        By the way, the church is open 24/7 for quite contemplation. We have a notice in the porch:

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a44f7b02c519d1f89049fe4a03a0a715df05ecb1d47da3e35480f80fb23a6027.jpg

        1. “I think, if he’s there, the Almighty will be Almighty pleased that we are all welcome in His house.

          By the way, the church is open 24/7 for quite contemplation.”

          This is exactly what makes me uncomfortable.

          Welcome in His house for what? When someone wants to have yoga sessions in the church, will anyone have the courage to say, actually that’s part of a non-Christian religion? When someone wants to raise money for a charity that pushes extreme left wing politics, will anyone have the courage to say actually, Christianity isn’t Marxism?

          Christianity is dissolving before our eyes with platitudes like “respect”, “all welcome” and “quiet contemplation.”

          Our village is a similar size to yours, and there is a circle that meets in each others’ houses. It started as the whole village, but seems to be getting a bit cliquey now, due to wanting to exclude a couple of incoming trouble-makers, I think. When we have whole village events, they have always taken place in somebody’s garden until this year.

          1. Good morning, BB.

            The Church I attend rents out the
            two large, open areas, all prospective hirers are vetted by the Deacons.
            I know yoga classes are not allowed
            to be held, for the reason you state.
            Any outside requests for charity fund- raisers are also not allowed, again for
            the concerns you mention.

          2. Hi, Garlands,
            we’re on a slippery slope though, as “the community” starts to feel that the church belongs to them (but they still don’t want nasty old Christianity preaching at them). Someone at some time, will challenge the yoga rule and the headline in the Daily Mail won’t be “Atheists try to take over church”, it will be “Mean hypocritical Christians spread hatred by refusing to rent premises to innocent, beneficial yoga group.”

          3. Sounds like you know our woke, far-left, remainiac priest who is always shoving his politics down the throats of the reluctant congregation (of which I am no longer a member).

          4. I shall just endorse, Anne Allan’s post and even today, in small villages like ours on a single-track road with no bus service and the nearest shop 3 miles away, we still have a duty of service to our small community.

            Incidentally, although Lay-Chairman of the Parochial Church Council (PCC) – not to be confused with the Parish Council – I am agnostic at best.

            I suspect you live in a larger urbanisation.

          5. I’m not sure which post from Anne Allan you mean (edit: Disqus was playing up. Seen it now). Of course people will have different opinions on this subject, but like so much today, nobody really wants to be the dissenting voice, so it never gets talked through.

            From a Christian point of view, the duty of service is to spread the word of our Lord Jesus Christ, and that’s what the church was built for. There’s no point having quiz nights if people’s souls are not in order.

            If the church gets used as a community centre, then inevitably, people will start to see it as “their” building instead of God’s building. They will get angry if anyone suggests that an event is not compatible with Christian values. If not Christians, they will re-define Christian values to fit to what they want to do with the church.

            Community events are valuable as a service to the village, but this is NOT the role of the church. I’m not sure if the edit to my post above got through, but I come from a hamlet about the same size as yours, and events are held at farms or in different people’s houses.
            Why is it not the church’s role to provide a venue for social events? Because Christianity is not a community religion. It helps you to concern yourself with your soul. It doesn’t provide a community rule book to be enforced upon others, neither is it a social justice movement, or a movement that pledges to provide beneficial services to the community.

            This returns to the point I made above.
            Using the church as a community venue changes people’s expectations of Christianity – it just becomes another quasi government provider of taxpayer funded goodies where everything is allowed.
            Churches get public money grants for providing community services. Then they have to conform to government regulations in order to keep the grants – better avoid all those non-politically correct parts of the Bible!
            This is not what Jesus preached, and it is an appalling betrayal of the Gospels to water them down to being an all-accepting, all-tolerant panderer to what people want, with God firmly in the back row.

            I realise you won’t agree with this, but I suspect that as in our area, there’s never been a proper discussion of these issues, because nobody wants to be the odd man out or say anything unpopular lest they be accused of being a hypocritical Christian. I know people (including yourself probably!) don’t want to talk about this issue, but like so much else in British life, while we look the other way, our cherished way of life will be hollowed out and turned into something quite different.

          6. We all have our points of View, BB2, so perhaps sometimes it’s best to agree to disagree – as has been the case for thousands of years.

            I can only wish you well and continued happy NoTTLing.

          8. We have a wonderfully uncompromising retired priest who preaches occasionally. When I asked one of the liberal lay readers what his name was, she sucked in a sharp breath and said “I think you mean (name).” I think he believes actual Bible stuff, such as homosexuality being a sin.
            Christianity isn’t the nicey nicey, don’t offend anyone movement that liberals believe it is.

          9. One wonders why they get involved if they don’t want the uncomfortable bits. Of course homosexuality is a sin. That doesn’t mean one has to be unkind to homosexuals, just not encourage them in immorality (and the same goes for heterosexual promiscuity).

          10. My view as well. Their sins are a matter between them and God. I have plenty to concentrate on with my own sins 🙂
            The most dangerous people for the church are the ones who are preaching marxism and cultural marxism and pretending it’s Christianity. Like our curate that annoyed me, they genuinely don’t seem to realise what they are doing, but they are the worst kind of heretics, twisting Christianity to mean what they want it to mean.

      3. Until the Reformation, churches were ‘community hubs’. We are reverting to mediaeval practices (and not just in Tower Hamlets and Bradford).

        1. The churches which have reverted to being the community hubs they were always intended to be also tend to be the ones with the most active practising congregations.

          Trying to keep the community out of the church usually ends with the community wanting nothing to do with the church.

          The contributions of the Mothers and Toddlers, the Scouts and Guides, the music groups etc go towards preserving the fabric (which always needs attention) and the children who grow up feeling at home in the building become the choristers, the servers (if you are “high” enough) the readers of lessons etc etc and, in turn, bring their children along to participate. I seem to remember Him saying something about “suffer the little children to come unto me”, I don’t remember any sayings with regard to messiness.

        2. Not really comparable though. The “community hub” aspect was very much centred around the practices of the medieval Catholic church in Britain, and the government was as heavily influenced by Christianity as it is today by marxism.

      4. The vicarette in my local church is one such – she told us to pray for an immigrant who was fighting deportation. The ex-curate, who graduated to his own benefice, preached a sermon on climate change where he stated baldly “the science is settled”. I felt like asking him if he could accelerate a bit of global warming because the heating had broken down and the few hardy souls who attended were huddled together in the chancel under blankets, vainly trying to stave off hypothermia. He has now moved on (to one of my former stamping grounds). I don’t know what his successor is like, I’ve only seen him on Zoom.

    3. What is the relevance of the balloons? Ms Davies obvs felt they were important enough to mention – an explanation would have helped.

      1. Perhaps they use balloons to keep the queues at the appropriate social distances – it would obviate the need for sticky tape on the floor as used in supermarkets.

        Otherwise I’m at as much of a loss as you are.

  8. Morning all

    SIR – Dr Damian Tominey’s article (“Testing system for care homes a fiasco, putting elderly at risk”, September 30) is an appalling indictment of the government agencies on which he should have been able to rely to protect elderly, frail people at the nursing home he runs.

    It reinforces the impression that the pandemic is being mismanaged by incompetent civil servants and bureaucrats, who inhabit a world remote from reality. Where is the sense of urgency? Where is the acknowledgement that people’s lives are at stake?

    Clive Green

    Bristol

      1. …Or that daft bitch who travelled from London to Glasgow by train, knowing she was Covid +ve.

          2. Who’d want to?
            Aaaarrgghhhhhh ….. the DTs. I’ll never touch granny’s pea pod wine again.

    1. Good morning, Peddy

      There are plenty of good songs about rain e,g.s: Crying in the Rain (Everly Brothers), The Cascades (Rhythm of the Rain) , Buddy Holly (Raining in My Heart), Dinah Washington (September in the Rain), Raindrops keep falling on my Head (B.J. Thomas) etc.etc.

      I love this one by Supertramp:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZUE4_PtOk0

        1. The summer of 1962 was the year I got my “O” levels! The results came out when this song was in the hit parade so I have good memories of it!

          I had just acquired an Enterprise sailing dinghy and I won a pint tankard made of Cornish Tin at the Fowey Regatta which my father filled with St Austell Brewery’s Best Bitter for me.

          (It was also the year when my Caroline was born)

    1. Option 2 used to be known as good manners.
      Don’t visit anyone old or ailing – or indeed fit and well – if you have a cold, sore throat or a cough.
      The office martyr drooling snot everywhere should be exterminated.

      2. Unfortunately too many employers regard sick days (foolishly) as anathema and staff are browbeaten into turning up regardless.

        Care workers are notoriously low-paid and generally have to survive on SSP if they are ill, so they tend to keep working as long as they can stand up. Proper remuneration for staying at home when it is essential, is a necessity if care homes are to be protected.

  16. Actor Frank Windsor who played the part of DS John Watt in Z Cars and then in Softly Softly, died this week, aged 92.
    Interesting that Softly Softly finished in 1976 , the same year as Dixon of Dock Green.

    Oh for the good old days when the police force stood for virtue ,before becoming politicised , organising into Muslim and LGBTQI
    associations and kneeling before Marxist rioters

    2. That’s what happens during a parabolic flight trajectory and you haven’t got your seat belt on.

    3. That presents a real dilemma, since the use of bullets is not recommended inside a pressurised vehicle flying at 31,000 feet.

      A drugged dart-gun — in skilled hands —might be quite safe, however?

      1. Planes are full of holes, Grizz, another 9mm or two won’t make noticeable difference, and certainly won’t lead to explosive decompression. This was on Mythbusters some years ago. High opportunity to shoot a passenger, though, or damage something important like the drinks trolley…
        A Tazer might be helpful, and a few long cable ties for trussing up the crazed one.

        1. “Planes are full of holes, Grizz, another 9mm or two won’t make noticeable difference, and certainly won’t lead to explosive decompression”

          Are you serious?

          1. The ‘hole’ in the skin made during manufacture has a reinforcing plate round it, a 9mm hole in the thin skin wouldn’t and as it would have jagged edges forming stress raisers it may not immediately cause a fracture but I wouldn’t take the chance of it doing so later in the flight when reaching a lower altitude and higher stresses. Crack propagation is extremely fast.

          3. Yes. I’m a materials engineer by training, and know about pressure vessel design as well.
            See Mythbusters. Sos posted a link hereabouts.

      2. Tazers are always good, George – I nearly wrote Tawse and in her case it would have worked.

          2. They were, John, as was the side-handled baton and all the other crap they carry around with them.

            My ‘appointments’ were: a clean and well-pressed uniform; a helmet (plus cap for car use); shiny boots (or shoes); a whistle and chain (!); a pair of handcuffs; and an old-fashioned staff (‘truncheon’).

            Oh, and a lot of initiative and common sense; plus a way of connecting with the public that put them on your side.

            My old female shift inspector (and lifelong friend) emailed me just yesterday with this tribute:

            George,

            Yes, you were best report and file presenter on the shift by far, did not want to make you big headed 🙄 You also drew some excellent plans for me.

            To be remembered thus? Yeah, I can live with that.

  18. 324247+ up ticks,
    The make up numbers could have been taken from the Dover beach intake making it an illegal immigrants day trip, home for tea.
    Deportation Flight Had One Passenger After 29 Lodged Legal Challenges.

  19. Good Morning, all

    DT headline

    Sir David Attenborough: ‘I’ve been talking about this for 30 years… and nobody’s taken any notice’

    That has restored my faith in the Great British Public.

    1. I haven’t read the article yet, but he has voiced certain views on an increase in the human population. Incidentally, Sir David has always been an exceptionally well-organised person.

    2. Neither senility nor wisdom automatically comes with old age. But sometimes you get one without the other.

    3. Unfortunately, the article includes this bunk:
      “…the holocene age – the 12,000- year geological period of climatic stability…the planet is one degree warmer – which may not sound like much, but it is a speed of change that exceeds any in the last 10,000 years.”

      I know the Met Office recently extended its official record set from 1910 to the 1880s but I didn’t realise that they had suddenly leapt backwards to 8000BC.

        1. They’d have an answer and few experts lined up for the reason.
          We have probably had this torrential rain because over the past 65 years, billions of trees have been hacked down on there continents.
          This has probably caused the clouds to form over the oceans instead of the rain forests. But i’m no expert.

        2. Apparently, the Little Ice Age had nothing to do with natural variations but was caused by volcanoes. I don’t what their explanation is for the post-Roman cold period (approx AD 450–950).

      1. 324247+ up ticks,
        Morning Anne,
        Looking at it from outside the box & bringing war games to mind
        I see it as preparing for future ( re-set dissatisfaction) indigenous kettling.
        My advice for what it is worth, is when the establishment / employees tell you to look North, make very sure first what is coming at you from the South.

    2. Its a very clever little chap, its racist and sexist too. But maybe its similar to the burying of bad news, get all your politically motivated and loony schemes through under the cover of the virus.

      1. 324247+ up ticks,
        Morning KP,
        I have a very strong feeling that this march towards DOOM for a Country, passing by a political raised dias, and giving an” eye’s right” really should have kept a weather eye also on the left, especially for a deal issue.

        The deal I believe signed long ago hence this multitude of sh!te
        issues, AKA chaff.

        To my mind we would NEVER got to where we are today as a nation without always putting the party first.

  23. Is anyone having trouble with Disqus this morning? I’m logged in but NOTTL doesn’t pick it up upon loading.

    1. I had to change my password again when we arrived home yesterday, but it still wont let me access via my mobile phone, despite coming up with my usurer name it tells me it doesn’t recognise me.

    2. yes, Disqus is rather odd today – I’m definitely not seeing all posts, and clicking “Refresh” tends to take the image backwards rather than forwards.

      1. I liked the one about smoking a pipe through a mask and another I cant bring to mind.

      1. I should imagine that Migraine will soon cut off the supply of puffin and gruntin for Harry if she has not already done so,

    2. 324247+ up ticks,
      Morning TB,
      Would give the Black Watch a whole different
      look.
      How would Jock feel ?

    3. Judging by the face, a lot of drugs had to be pumped into that lad before he posed for the cameras.

    4. What’s the difference between that and a dress?
      Marketing to the gullible again.

      1. If the gullible have that kind of money to burn then any retailer is entitled to deprive them of it if they are really that stupid.

        Caveat emptor.

    8. I suspect one could get something similar in Primark’s ladies wear for around £7 – that’s a saving of around £1693 to look a complete tosser!

  28. I had to larrff this morning on the news the BBC were excitedly fanning the flames of Trumps Virus infection and then……….they showed Pelosi taking about something i didn’t catch.
    I just had to wonder how much makeup she was wearing. I thought she looks very dangerous.
    Or am i just being a biatch ?

  29. Good morning, Boss, Bob3 and Minty.
    Edited : and Mum.

    Testing…testing.

    Where is everyone?

      1. …and now it’s gone 8.
        Time must be rising faster than we thought.
        Better check with the scientic advisers’ forecast in case it’s going exponential.

        Morning ogga1 and all.

    5. Retrieving garden furniture, plants, cat basket etc. from the bottom of the garden!

      1. That’s a pretty church. I like that the interior is plain, not full of decoration and suchlike.
        Somewhere to let the peace soak in.

    2. I wonder whether, as acting President, she would be able to rescind Trump’s supreme court nominee?

      1. she is representative of the old, tired political hierarchy in the US. I am sure that she would do everything in her power to advance her view of the Democratic agenda, stopping the Supreme Court moving to the right would be top of her list.

        A neutral court would be best, let the judges battle out left vs. right in their decisions but I don’t see either party looking for that.

        1. Given that, since it is unlikely that the election will be delayed, she would have less than 4 months and almost certainly wouldn’t try to do anything other than hold over the nomination until a new president is inaugurated (as the Republicans did 11 months before the last inauguration) I don’t think that she could do very much harm.

          1. Good morning Alec

            Is his motto: Never Miss an opportunity?

            Any more music for us?

    1. 324247+ up ticks,
      Morning VOM,
      There will be an oil tanker on standby, regarding trouble waters
      etc.
      Forward thinking, a crashed economy will surely jeopardise these
      incoming potential troops
      and interfere with their expected lifestyles, has
      priti / johnson put monies by ?

      1. If their lifestyle is not as they expect, then they will turn on the indigenous en masse. Perhaps that is the outcome western governments are trying to manipulate.

        1. Isn’t that the narrative of American culture and history, in contrast to that of Europe and Africa, which traditionally has been one group of indigenes shafting their neighbours until they learnt to get on, often by imposition of a higher authority?

          The biggest mistake we all make is to lump them in together as “Western” or to pretend that white people and black people are any more or less brutal to one another when they choose to be.

        2. 324247+ up ticks,
          PM,
          Certainly is the case with UK governments especially since the political knifing of Mrs Thatcher, the instruction manual resting between the dispatch boxes ( lies permitted/ expected to non believers) & halal fodder on the parliamentary canteen menu.
          The intended political route could not be plainer.
          And still these politico’s / party’s find favour / votes from the ovis.

      1. Oh, Anne, you expect them to give figures when the poor, helpless souls are being constantly driven back to alien French shores?

  34. Made it! Good morning, all. A dreary looking day with strong winds forecast until towards the end of the week.

  35. ‘Morning All

    I am getting thoroughly cheesed off with “Black History Month” surely inventing the pointed stick and learning to sell your genocide survivors to Arab traders could be covered in a weekend??

    Is there a White History Month taught in African schools
    and promoted on their national TV stations?

    I do hope so, because I wouldn’t like to think of them getting
    an unbalanced view of our contribution to the world.

          1. It never stops! Neither does Qwerty Soup Month.
            First they were painting the road crossings rainbow coloured in Oxford for that, now it’s all year round.
            Also the silly little pairs crossing on the traffic lights. Functional street furniture should not be turned into political propaganda!

          2. Mmmm… Perhaps I need to get out more. I was thinking this morning, it’s nearly 7 months since I last went to Cambridge.

    3. Don’t suppose that there will be an examination of the modern history of black nations.

        1. Oh yes, how in WW2 the Italian army killed thousands of Africans armed only with spears and shields in Ethiopia.

    5. Morning Rik

      I wonder if Black history has been wiped clean in African schools .. I wonder whether massacres are discussed and tribal terror .

      I suspect the export of slaves saved many lives , because Africa was always in turmoil before the arrival of the white man !

      Just want to add that the red letter boxes that are being painted black are also GR boxes.

      I do not want my nightmares perpetuated by reminders that they matter more than us.

      I wonder how the Chinese feel as well as the Indians , who contribute far more intellectual intelligence and benefit to Britain .

      1. I do hope they wont forget to mention the thousands black people murdered in Zimbabwe by Mugabe.
        The thousands killed in Rwanda.
        The disgusting racist Edi Armin.
        Whoops to busy graffiti-ising statues of famous white people and pulling them down.
        Of murdering white farmers and their families in SA.

        1. Yeah , thta is the black history they will ignore , and of course not mentioniong the murders in Jamaica , Haiti and everywhere else in that godforsaken part of Atlantic …

    6. …and if we have black history month, where is the Asian history month, or the Indian history month?

  36. Well, in the absence of the expected rain, I managed to get the lengths of plywood I cut to size yesterday sorted with reinforcing lengths of 3×2 on the back and also did several 12″ stakes to support them.
    Then came in for a spot of breakfast & mug of tea during which the rain began, so that’s me for the day.

    1. Here in Northants we’ve had about an inch since yesterday lunchtime but parts of the SW had well over two inches yesterday alone with more to come.

      1. Just been up and finished placing one side of the shuttering, getting it leveled off and backfilling where I’d taken too much soil out when digging the trench.

        At the moment it’s that very light but steady rain that, whilst it does not stop you from doing outside work, totally removes any enthusiasm for getting the job done.

  37. I’ve just been reading my copy of On The Psychology of Military Incompetence. Numerous examples are given but all you need is the Crimea or Singapore to get a taste of what is possible. The leaders in these affairs were so staggeringly stupid and indifferent to the results that it must have been difficult not to believe that they were in the pay of hostile forces or under foreign control. We of course are dealing with a civilian administration and we know that to some extent the crisis is being manipulated. Still one should not discount a natural reason for some of the decisions.

  38. Good morning, my friends

    Cycling on an exercise bicycle is incredibly boring – but with the radio tuned to Radio Suisse Classic and a copy of a collection of P.G. Wodehouse’s short stories the time flies by and one cannot help being in a good mood. I thoroughly recommend it.

    Mr Wodehouse’s idyllic world can never stale. He will continue tor release future generations from captivity that maybe more irksome than our own. He has made a world for us to live in and delight in.

    [Evelyn Waugh]

    One of my favourite authors was absolutely right about the genius of another one of my favourite authors.

    1. Good morning, Rastus.

      Buy yourself a clip-on music stand for the handlebars on which to hold a good book.

  39. 324247+ up ticks,
    Personally I believe it is the party & the quality of the party political content that counts.
    I mean just look at this con party, no better, no worse than lab in ways of full on treachery aimed currently at peoples suppression.

    I believe that I can safely say, based on past performance that to continue the same voting system / pattern
    WILL erase the United Kingdom from the world map.

    https://twitter.com/GerardBattenUK/status/1312360119645200384

    1. I think that for once, Gerard, you’ve lost the plot.

      An elected President? What’s wrong with our constitutional Monarchy? Or would you rather have President Blair and elections every 4 years at the cost of £millions?

      I’m coming round to PR for the Commons with a max of 400 Members

      The second chamber must remain with the Lords but ONLY the heredetaries (they have the country’s long-term interest at heart because it serves their long-term interest.)

      Furthermore, we need to be rid of the Wee Pretendy Parliament and the Regional Assemblies with their Powers returned to Westminster, where the various Secretaries of State are not only responsible for their fiefdoms but are also held accountable.

      Only then will I believe in Britain as a Sovereign Power.

      1. Looking at the scum who stand for election, a constitutional monarchy, complete with executioner and sharpened axe on standby, seems the best bet.
        I also would like to see the constituencies put up candidates in primaries, so the usual Party wankers hacks aren’t always selected.
        Finally, MPs are to be treated as self-employed, the same as any other self-employed person. That is, sort out your own pension, do your tax returns, and at the end of the contract we might have a whip-round and buy you a cake to say goodbye. Or, just ask you to mind the door doesn’t bang your arse as you leave.
        EDIT: and government will provide accommodation for MPs – a 2 or 3-bed apartment in a block close to Westminster, one per constituency. Fully furnished. Restaurant and coffee shop in the basement, meeting rooms and business centre above. No funding of private arrangements – you fund it yourself if you want to. No flipping of properties

          1. This was the civilised version, Tom!
            Personally, I’d like to see direct democracy for every vote – with the option “Don’t be a wanker. Go back and think again!” presented every time. Fewer than 50% vote? Not quorate, try again.
            Then we don’t need all these wasters and self-aggrandisers. Demos in charge! The technology is up to it now.

          2. The problem with that would be the cost. Running elections isn’t cheap. Sorry, but demos in charge is highly unlikely to work and the technology really isn’t up to it yet – it’s still to easy to find ways to vote more than once.

          3. ¨We have an ID system here that is used for pretty well all electronic ID, including logging in to your bank. It is obviously not personal, but if it’s good enough for banking, it’s more secure than any voting system already in place.
            So, you can log in to the voting scheme with BankID, and vote – really easily and cheaply.

          4. And if you don’t have an electronic ID? Millions don’t. The technology won’t be there until the population has all been educated in technology and is all provided with technology (how many areas over here are simply not connected yet?)

            It’s not easy and it’s not cheap either. Besides, would you really want even half the wailing idiots who don’t understand that 2+2=4 being able to get their hands on the levers of power? There’s a good reason for having representative democracy…

          5. Easy way – no ID, no vote. As Paul says, most have a bank card and most have a driving licence. What about a passport? If you want to vote, go get some acceptable ID. Maybe harsh but it also identifies how valuable your vote is to you.

          6. Far from “harsh” just plain nonsense.

            Paul specifically mentions electronic ID. The majority of over 75s don’t have any. It’s not about whether a vote is “valuable” – it’s just not on.

            Easy to be stupid, sure.

          7. Anyhow, I always agree with you, Tom! :-))
            How’s the follow-on autobiog coming? I’m poised to buy…

          8. I don’t know if it will ever be published, since it has turned into more of a journal and new stuff happens all of (most of) the time and I doubt if Best Beloved will want to publish it.

            Should I get to the end of the year, I’ll maybe send you a link to download it from the laughingly called ‘cloud’. I.e., a distant server somewhere on a Pacific Island – it feels like that with the speed (or otherwise) of downloads.

        3. We can do very nicely without the executioner and the axe. Judicial murder is never helpful (as one look at the situation in the US of A would tell you).

          MPs already fill in their tax returns and flipping has been ended the fees office will only pay rent now for any new MP. The biggest cost on MPs expenses, is that like the rest of the self-employed they employ their own staff. By far the largest proportion of the total bill for MPs expenses is staffing costs. I would like to see a system where MPs were able to appoint their own staff (to do otherwise would be to risk having wreckers appointed by those who favour other parties) but the contracts are run and the wages paid by a central office. That would also have the benefit of allowing for a proper pension scheme for staff as opposed to each MP having an statutory scheme which makes nothing for a handful of employees).

          Doctors, lawyers and quite a few other professionals take a pay-cut to become MPs (though it isn’t fashionable to say so) and their pension scheme only benefits them for the years they are in parliament so one-termers don’t get much benefit. Organisations like the BMA and the Law Society run combined pension schemes anyway – so not all the self-employed have to set up their own schemes.

          Many MPs represent communities which have been their homes for years – others are certainly parachuted in. But the problem with open primaries is that it is too easy to lumber your opposition with a candidate who isn’t actually working for them, especially in safe-ish seats where an active opposition is important if only to keep the incumbent honest (ish). Easy enough to make sure that MPs in safe seats never even have to campaign – thus allowing them to go campaigning in all the neighbouring constituencies instead. It always looks like a good idea on paper – but it doesn’t really work.

      2. 324247+ up ticks,
        Evening NtN,
        As for losing the plot I would say that was truly lost via the electorate from major ongoing through cameron, clegg, may & now….
        As for the constitutional monarchy she become an eu citizen
        seemingly willingly, there was no uproar that I remember.

        Otherwise no problem, my stance personally is God Queen & Country.

        I do not see Batten mentioning b liar but over the last couple of decades it would be hard to judge the least treacherous from
        the close shop party leaderships.

        I can see none of which you would like to see being achievable or desired under this current governance political hierarchy, and party first voting pattern.

    2. He’s looking the wrong way. We just need the Swiss system. MP presents legislation, the people either agreee, or reject it. If the people reject it, the MP can’t then push it through anyway. Should the MP get uppity, be shown to be corrupt, chear the people he’s sacked. His party has no say.

      It’s the fundamental principle of demos kratos.

      1. Here’s the reason why our Head of State should never be a President, summed up in just one word ……

        ….. Blair.

        2. Do you remember his odious and ignorant home secretary, Jack Straw, described his evil master as the Head of State which underlined how very little he knew about the country of which he held one of the great offices of the kingdom.

      2. Here’s the reason why our Head of State should never be a President, summed up in just one word ……

        ….. Blair.

      3. Out of 382,2 million Americans, they get to choose between a buffoon and Alzheimers on steroids.
        What went wrong?
        Poor Yanks.
        :-((

    1. He’s got a new book out “Covid 19 – The greatest hoax in history” He won’t be sending a copy to one M Hancock because the good doctor doesn’t think he can read……!

  41. The damage done yesterday was swift and painful .. the deluge was huge and destructive , the water ran down the field across the main road and caused a headache for home owners , for the second time in 6 weeks , and the flow of water and gravel and mud from nearby driveways was a nuisance, as I said must have been 6 inches of rain in about 2 hours .

    Today is calmer and quieter, no wind and a steady drizzle , but the forecast says that later on this evening we could be due for a full wack of bad weather again. Fortunately we are on a slope , but many others haven’t been so lucky , and have had some horrible problems.

    Do you remember that strange advert during September , that suggested we should all pack a bag with essentials , well you know, just in case?

    Do you also know that it is the home owners responsibility to guard your home against floods , irregardless of whether your home was built on a flood plain or close to a river . Councils don’t generally provide flood protection, like sandbags etc.

    Sandbags
    There is no statutory requirement for the local authority to provide sandbags. Residents or business owners are responsible for protecting their own property from floodwater and it is highly recommended that they have plans in place to do so. Therefore we encourage residents to visit their local builder’s merchant to purchase and store sandbags or equivalent products in advance of a flood event.

    We encourage residents to make plans to protect their property in advance of flooding such as buying and storing sandbags or equivalent products, particularly if their property is in a susceptible area.

    We advise anyone who feels they are at risk of flooding to invest in some form of flood protection. You can find information on what products are available on the National Flood Forum website.

    After some investigation yesterday , I found this … https://www.screwfix.com/c/safety-workwear/flood-management/cat6690004.

    1. My boss, lives in Portsmouth, he spent the day swooshing water out of his house. 🙁
      Hope you don’t have much damage, Belle.

    2. At the slightest patter of rain the end of the lane becomes a large lake.

      We’ve told the council many times that they must clear the blockages but they’ve never bothered. A neighbour bashed a wheel in a pot hole hidden by the lake. He sent the bill to the council. As he’s retired, a barrister and very grumpy I imagine he might kick them in to fixing it.

    3. In ‘Cider With Rosie’ there’s a scene where the rain is so heavy it sweeps down the hills and through Laurie Lee’s house.
      You don’t liven the shadow of Bindon, do you?
      When we stayed at my grandfather’s I was always impressed when I opened the curtains in the morning. Coming from Essex, I wasn’t used to impressive hills being so close to a house.

        1. Probably. My grandfather died in 1959 and his second wife, Ethel, would certainly not be above the daisies by now.

    4. Sorry to heare that, Mags.

      Is the flooding caused by the Rivers Authority’s negligence in not dredging the local rivers?

      If so, I would resort to law and sue the barstewards – and never mind what the EU says, we’re out as of Jan 1 2020.

      1. Nope, run off from sloping fields into what the EA call a Fluvial plain, except over 10 years ago an estate was built despite protests and a heavy bill for going to appeal . We do have water meadows which take up the slack from the river but the pressure of government requirements and landowners greed allows huge building projects to go ahead.. ttcchhh!

        Beacause weather evenst are sudden and shortlasting , more damage can be caused by runoff from steep fields , no matter how thay are managed , and there is no where for the water to go because the drainage systems just cannot cope, except to flood roads, people’s gardens and through the front door!

        1. Thanks, Mags, but I’d still pursue the B’s through the courts – and the Planning Authorities who allowed it.

        1. He looks so serious. I’m sure he would love to be taken seriously. However, given the abuse allegedly heaped upon him one can only speculate that he’s taken aback.

        2. Thanks, Robert – no building today?

          Funny that Maggie’s won’t show on my screen.

          1. Got a small amount done.
            Put lengths of 3×2 as stiffeners across the back of the plywood I’ve cut to the height I need and got one side roughly placed and levelled off before the rain got too heavy.

          2. Th rain stopped at least 2 hours ago here, the wind has dropped away. Just been out to the car & it’s quite mild out.

  43. Suppress or live with the virus?

    Here’s a current official R number table:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/45fd24589d6bb9bbc76c5a95e5cbacd7a5552a66be8eecdec49def6d8df22de6.jpg

    Let’s say one infected person entering a virus free country has COOVID-19 on day one.

    With R=1.1 for the UK, I calculate that the whole country will be infected after seven months:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d01af713c414935951067ec972fb4b35047be42b6c6f863c9b201acc2c2ba407.jpg

    2. Your results are VERY sensitive to changes in R, Angie.
      There’s the problem. Getting a decent estimate of R.

      1. That is science for you.
        There’s no way of reducing COVID-19 infections unless R<0.
        That means reversing time!

          1. Well spotted – such a small error can make the stupidly large COVID numbers become impossibly rapidly negative.

    3. Well – It’s been more than seven months now since the virus arrived here – so have we all had it?

      1. My model is based on no lockdown intervention and no restriction of population movement. I think if there had been no attempts at constraining the virus then we would all have had it by now.

        Lockdown may well to be delaying the achievement of 100% herd immunity.
        I think that is what the Swedes gambled on when they reckoned a vaccine would not become avaiable for six months.

    6. It all means diddley to me, Angie. A simple count of deaths purely FROM (not with) Wuflu and I can understand what may or may not, be serious.

      1. My problem is that the meejah is reporting positive tests, without noting that more tests (from people already selected for testing as they are ill with the necessary symptoms…) will naturally give more positives, until everybody is tested about every week. Duh!
        And, so what that someone tests positive? Are they seriously ill? Seems not, most of the time, since (here, at least) more positives does NOT mean more in hospital, a good measure for serious illness.
        Hell’s teeth, does nobody understand even a tiny bit of maths (math?)? Remember Venn diagrams? Good technique to look at how the positive results don’t mean catastrophe.

        OT: Our next cat may well be called Cat Astrophe. Unless it’s Cat Atonic, of course. :-))

          1. Firstborn would quite like a big dog – he has the space – thought of calling it Dog Gerrel”

        2. Remember that Halfcock didn’t understand what a False Positive is. He didn’t realise that if a test has a low sounding FPS rate of 1% testing a thousand will reveal ten new “cases” and ten thousand a hundred needing a lock down.

    1. Morning Anne,

      What a tweet little article and I dont believe a word of it.
      I am always sceptical of journalists’ personal stories – they always ‘just happen to have’ experienced something they can use as analogy to a broader political point.

      Itchy beard!

      1. Shooting passing pigeons, with a rifle, out of a L/Rover bouncing around on pot-holed roads rather gives it away – in the first few sentences.

        I was the “lamp-man” for the bunny squad for years and you shoot the bunny when he’s sitting still and the L/Rover is sitting still too – and only then when you are shooting into the ground if you miss.

    2. How terribly tedious for those with properties in France to discover that there are vast quantities of junk (antiquities) lying around. Disposal in an eco-friendly way is so difficult.
      Quite unlike the Rymans, the stationers, who bought a chateau in the Dordogne. The previous owners carelessly left a 1923 Citroen Kergesse halftrack in the shed…

      1. We met Nick Ryman a while back, sadly he died a few years ago. He was living in reduced circumstances but still managed a couple of bottles of red a day!

    2. Magnificent photographs. I can understand why the Scots are so proud of their country and why discerning Scots must be dumbfounded by the calibre of elected politicians (the same applies to discerning folk everywhere)…

      1. This is where I live – most of the scenery is within a couple of hours drive from me. only spoilt by tourists leaving their litter and human waste everywhere

        1. I never understood that – why people drop shit everywhere. Do they just drop it at home, or in the garden? Is most of the world just a slob?? Now Norway is filling with imported people, the levels of crap are rising dramatically – East Europeans dossing in city parks and crapping there, darker skinned folk from warm parts of the world just littering everywhere…

          1. Some years ago the small boy who lived across the road dropped chocolate wrapper over my garden fence (when I was gardening). I asked him politely to pick it up – he said a rude a word. I told him to pick it up – he said a more rude word. So I stood up and said – “fine, let’s see what your Mum’s got to say about it” walking towards the gate as I said it – he said a yet more rude word, put he picked up the wrapper and disappeared up his own garden path. So it isn’t all about parents – it seems to be more about “getting away with it” than anything else.

            I should add that he’s grown up now and perfectly pleasant if I meet him on the pavement when he’s home visiting…

        2. My Clan comes from around here (see the link). Not that they’d recognise me, since most of the Clan left mid 1800s as the Clan was bankrupt. My relatives left for England, others scattered aound the world. Yet the ones I have met have maintained the same tradition as my branch – there’s always an Alexander in every generation! (My paternal Grandfather, Father, Brother, Firstborn…), and the Kiwi we met some years ago, his family had exactly the same tradition! He, too, was Sandy.
          https://www.eileandonancastle.com/

          1. Unfortunately its not all tourist local DHs who drive up and down the country lane at the end of our road chuck takeaway packs and beer cans from their car windows.
            Cyclists passing by often throw their energy drink cans and bottles away in our surrounding country side. Having run out of energy to take them home with them.

          2. Normally I don’t think additional legislation is needed, we have far too much legislation. But if the fines were absolutely eye-watering, and if the car had to be sold to pay them so be it.

            Ditto cyclists, fine them so heavily that they would not ever risk doing it again. Of course the problem with that is that those who spot and enforce litter fines have a tendency to be absolute DHs too, so it needs to be “genuine, deliberate littering” such as tossing away fast food containers, drink cans, bottles and the like.

            Fly-tipping should be treated similarly, but with a prison sentence as well.

          3. No need for a change of legislation, just a modification of the penalty scale for an existing offence.

            As with most things the great majority of cyclists and drivers don’t sling stuff around – but the ones who do give everyone else a bad name. Walkers are not entirely innocent either I’m sad to say.

            The penalties for fly-tipping are already quite high, but in the nature of the offence the problem is catching the culprit. Since the authorities charge the land-owner for doing the clear up they have no great interest in tracking down the offender. Most farmers who have roadside fields now carry insurance cover to pay for such cleaning up, they can’t afford not to do it.

            We haven’t had a tinder-dry summer this year, but one of my pet hates is to see (and you can see easily enough when you are following a vehicle at night) unextinguished cigarette ends flung out of windows (very often truck windows). A few summers ago, when we were tinder dry, I actually had to stop and extinguish the beginning of a roadside fire. Unfortunately, by the time I had done so, I’d missed the chance to get the number plate and the name of firm to report the driver.

          4. One might consider giving a reward to anyone who provides photographic/video evidence. A £1000 reward for evidence that leads to a conviction and a £10,000 fine for example.

            There are enough dashcams out there to catch bad offenders.

          5. So we are to be in agreement with dobbing in our neighbours if the regulation suits us, but not if it doesn’t?

          6. Touché, but I consider that the Covid idiocy legislation/diktat is based on unproven guesswork, has no basis in “real” science nor is there any evidence that having six as opposed to eight or sitting two as opposed to one metre apart makes any differenece whatsoever.

            Fly-tipping, littering, tossing flaming butt-ends out of windows can all be seen to be doing harm and have a lot more direct measurable evidence than any of this Covid nonsense.

          7. I don’t entirely disagree with you – though I would make a distinction between fly-tipping and fire-starting and an occasional dropped bus-ticket etc.

            I would also suggest that people who are MPs, the parents of MPs, employees of MPs, and others of that ilk should obey all regulations regardless of whether or not they think they make sense…. they should not be permitted to get away Scot free as has now happened several times.

          8. That was the point of my earlier comment regarding enforcement.
            Idiots who try to levy a littering fine on someone who drops a ten pound note are clearly several bricks short of a sandwich.

          9. Unfortunately, I think yer average Brit is more slovenly than some other nations’ great unwashed. I have travelled quite a bit and apart from in the far east and Africa, I have always found other countries to be far cleaner than ours, especially in the cities.

          10. Having lived there for 18 months in the late 60s I visited a web site named The Death Of Johannesburg. It is now an absolute shonet hole. Litter every where, burnt out buildings some i knew well. I wondered if this was typical of African cities. I looked at Google earth i found a few where street level could be attained, but of those i did were also filled with litter and piles of rubbish.
            But generally speaking i totally agree, we are a terrible nation for littering, and discarding unwanted objects, certain types are so ignorant and inherently lazy. My wife and i lived in Australia and often go back to visit friend and relations. last time we went we drove from Perth to the southern tip at Albany and back. Not a piece of paper or a plastic bag to be seen at the road sides.
            Japan is a very tidy country as well.

          11. I don’t know whether other countries do less littering, or more clearing up (or a mixture of both). Certainly I’ve never seen litter bins overflowing all around and clearly not having been emptied for days (or even weeks) in any of the other European countries I’ve visited. Many councils are very sloppy when it comes to emptying bins.

        4. It happens all over the UK Alec. we have a lot of idiots living on these islands.
          I personally have never found it necessary to thrown away anything until i get back to were i started, or in a provided bin.

        5. My Clan comes from around here (see the link). Not that they’d recognise me, since most of the Clan left mid 1800s as the Clan was bankrupt. My relatives left for England, others scattered aound the world. Yet the ones I have met have maintained the same tradition as my branch – there’s always an Alexander in every generation! (My paternal Grandfather, Father, Brother, Firstborn…), and the Kiwi we met some years ago, his family had exactly the same tradition! He, too, was Sandy.
          https://www.eileandonancastle.com/

      3. Ah yes, Eilean a’ Cheò. The prominent spiked rock is known locally as “Wee Krankie’s Dildo”

    1. Apart form their salaries, expenses and gold plated pensions, as i have said many times before, our political classes relentlessly eff up everything they come in to contact with.

      1. As our business was in crisis – and is still likely to be finished and over for good – I was so very comforted to think that that dear and dedicated people in Parliament had been given a £10,000 bonus on top of their meagre salaries.

      3. I think that’s not their fault.

        Don’t get me wrong, politics is a midden. The problem is the misunderstanding of how government works. Ministers present policy. Civil servants enact it. Now, all too often, that ‘enacting’, if it does not match what civil servants want to do is simply ignored or done so badly, so slowly that it may as well not have been done.

        The public sector is designed to do everything slowly whereas people expect fast responses to immediate problems.

      4. As our business was in crisis – and is still likely to be finished and over for good – I was so very comforted to think that that dear and dedicated people in Parliament had been given a £10,000 bonus on top of their meagre salaries.

      1. Spartie hates windy weather. His ‘bat ears’ amplify the sound and chihuahua’s eyes are like horses; from the corner of their eyes they can see movements that make them twitchy.
        I don’t bother to give him a walk on such days as he is just too tense and edgy to enjoy it. Runs round the garden and arguments with the dog next door are quite enough.

    1. Where? For some odd reason, your pix don;t show on my screen. On any of the browsers.

      Is the nauseating clip from the Daily Wail?

          1. Damn. St Barts Smithfield are acquiring two cats – you’ve clearly set a trend – and there’s to be a public competition to name them, with the Rector having the right of veto.

          2. I can commend “Bob” ad “Thompson” – the names of two ginger brothers that we had for 15 years.

    5. If it is hairy and stays out a lot – Caterpillar. It literally means ‘shaggy cat’… or ‘hairy cat’ if you prefer.

  51. And, completely off topic, ‘coz Ah is weird…
    Why do so many 2nd class plants get called names with animals in them?
    Crab apple
    Dog rose
    Goat garlic (Norwegian: Geitrams)
    to name but three.

        1. Knotweed is easy to get rid of.
          You simply pull up and burn every bit of it you can find, including the roots.
          Then do the same the year after.
          And the next year.
          And the year after that.
          And the year after that.
          And the year after that.
          And the year after that.
          And the year after that.
          And the year after that.
          And the year after that.
          And the year after that.
          And the year after that.

          3. Only as long as you never drop a single 2mm long piece… and that’s not a very reliable method. Very few areas have, actually, been successfully cleared.

    2. My dog roses in the west hedge aren’t 2nd class; they are splendid. Hips just ripening.

    3. Seems to be if they are more natural or wild, rather than cultivated plants. Not second class though.

    1. Superb!
      Now there is a family that should be promoted as role models for Black youngsters.

      1. I think any large family with such talented children would attract attention, whatever their skin colour.

    2. That was beautiful! He plays with such passion and feeling. She’s a lovely, sensitive pianist too.

          1. There’s Venice, Trip round Italy in an Alfa Spyder & the cruise from Venice to Istanbul.

          3. I also enjoy the Italian series with the chef with the blue Maserati & the art expert. Can’t remember their names.

    1. 1st piece of news makes me think of the Borg, Seven of Nine in particular.

      2nd pice of news makes me think of the Borg.

      I can just hear Johnson & his cronies muttering “Resistance Is Futile”

  56. Our survey. Under one in three Party members think Johnson is dealing well with the Coronavirus as Prime Minister.

    We’ve been asking this question for the last seven months in the monthly survey. And this is the seventh time in a row that it has fallen.

    For the record, the percentage believing that he has dealt with Covid-19 well have been as follows since March: 92 per cent, 84 per cent, 72 per cent, 64 per cent, 59 per cent, 48 per cent – and now 28 per cent.

    So only between a third and a quarter of Party activist members of our panel believe that the Prime Minister is handling the crisis well, and the best part of two in three think he’s handling it badly.

    https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2020/10/our-survey-under-one-in-three-party-members-think-johnson-is-dealing-well-with-the-coronavirus-as-prime-minister.html

    1. No one in the Western world expected to be confronted with a virus like this .

      Johnson and his money making pals are doing the best they can under circumstances,

      I doubt whether Labour who made a pigs ear out of the Foot and Mouth crisis, and the nonsense in the Middle East , are in any position to snipe and demoralise , how much better would they cope with the virus .. they would not, would they .

      1. 324247+ up ticks,
        Afternoon TB,
        They are an interchangeable coalition, one & the same, no difference.

      2. I disagree they are doing the best they can Belle. They should suggest that the elderly and those with co-morbidities should take extra care (and I’m positive they already are and do not need telling). Everybody else should return to normal life. The consequences of the lockdown are likely to be far worse than the disease.

        It has become political, they wish to control us all, and are being very successful at the moment. I am not prepared to stay at home for the rest of my life and cannot understand why people walk around in the street wearing a muzzle and why we are meekly submitting to the ridiculous regulations and restrictions particularly when deaths are bobbing along at pretty much zero. And no, I don’t want to kill anybody, I’d like to shake the politicians who have brought this country to its knees and created vast unemployment and loss of businesses, mortgage defaults and God knows what else. And made my BP go sky high when I think about it.
        Edit: vast unemployment .

        1. I do agree with you VW.

          Unfortunately , they scared us stiff, and no matter how stoic you are , as Moh said he wasn’t ready to die yet and neither am I. He is 74, fit and slim as he was as a youngster, but type 2 diabetes/ A pos blood group and the rest, the stuff the government have been scaring us with , so he barely went out for a few months , untill they opened the golf courses!

          1. I have the same problem with Best Beloved – with JAK2 ET blood cancer potential, she is (at 73) scared stiff of WuFlu infection. I have aschemic heart-failure, COPD and a barsteward of a back problem but, at 76, I’d risk it for more than a biscuit.

            Maybe 10 years service does that for you.

          2. I can understand anybody staying at home who has a possibly more vulnerable condition, that is sensible. But the rest of the country has been deliberately scared witless with the relentless advertising (save lives etc “) and “stay safe” messages, and these messages are still being relayed, whether on TV or radio and even signs in the street. We have a sign in our village high street warning about the 2metre social distancing which, by the way, some people lengthen into 3metres.

            We are being conditioned into compliance with rules and regulations that are eroding our freedom. No government will give that up willingly. I believe we’re being shunted along the path to a) the great reset in 2021, b) Government by the New New World Order and c) ultimately mandatory vaccination. And this last, unless you have proof of your vax you will not be permitted to … travel and do all sorts of other things, as punishment.

            I’m not saying this virus doesn’t exist, just that rather reaction by governments has coincided with BLM rioters, lockdown, and big pharma waiting in the wings to make yet another fortune. All about control.

          3. What has happened to us all is that we have lost our smiles and laughs , and generally happy sense of humour, whilst we have been under so called control , a WORSE virus has knocked us for six, the BLM and BAME and the anarchy and disregard for our history and culture .

            The blinking media have egged the public on the taking the knee nonsense and black history and we seem to have been wiped off the slate .

            The BBC are even doing that now as we watch the rugby, BLM , I cannot believe what is happening in sport.

          4. The police are the worst, Belle, they’re an utter disgrace taking the knee”. The Home Secretary should have put a stop to that immediately on pain of dismissal. They’re supposed to be neutral in how they deal with the public. Alas they are not.

          5. Your OH has had these conditions for some time, I presume, and what would he have done each year when seasonal flu came around? Seasonal flu is still with us and people are dying from that and pneumonia but figures aren’t published daily. They never have been as far as I know.
            In previous years would he have isolated himself from seasonal flu? If the answer is no then he’s probably in no more danger now than he was then. The chances of getting Covid 19 is about 0.5% at most. That put positively is a 99.5% chance of not getting it.
            He’s probably in more danger driving to the golf course and being killed by a stray golf ball than dying from Covid.
            BTW I am 74 and I do not call being cooped up in my home, wearing a mask to go shopping and watching continuing doom and gloomsters on TV as living. It must be purgatory and I would rather depart this earth in a cheerful and happy state than in a state of self imprisonment.
            I’m not having a go at you Belle but we all have to get life into perspective and I think the continuing farcical rules coming from the so called government. I’m surprised that anyone can make any sense of them and perhaps that’s the desired effect. Incidentally I read this morning that of the 600 arrests for non compliance the CPS has refused to prosecute as they are not likely to result in a conviction.

          6. Lots of retired bods in the village , and quite honestly most seem to shut themselves away.

            We are fairly lucky , Dorset seems to have low numbers.

            I have lovely dog walks , our eldest son lives with us , he is working and travels 20 miles to work , he is an electrician, big project at present , so even though he is over fifty himself , he is cautious.

            The darned virus is different to flu, it plays hell inside you, and not just your lungs!

      3. Sorry to disappoint but a virus just like this has been expected for several years. One of the reasons for that big training exercise which saw all emergency services involved two years ago. From which they learned absolutely nothing.

        1. There was also the World survey
          in 2016[?] the UK came second of
          all the Countries who replied…
          with 49%…all that proved was how
          good we are at box ticking.

          1. The exercise mentioned was to show our weaknesses. It did point to certain areas like supply of masks etcetera. And then they did bugger all about it.

            Much why i never bother to tick or cross any boxes or sign any petitions because that is mostly to convince the public they are being listened to…which they are not.

            The only successes i can think of in recent times is when the Daily Mail gets a campaign up and running. Like litter picking.

            Good afternoon, Flower.

  58. Has anyone else had the misfortune to watch the Panorama expose on the failure of the Test & Trace System? Several squillions have been spent already to produce partial data that’s a week or two too late. On iPlayer for those with an iron constitution….

    1. I sit here now Stephen still baffled as to the utility of this testing program. Do people rush off to be tested when they suspect they have a cold or Flu! What does it avail them if they learn that yes, they really do have said infection?

    3. I sit here now Stephen still baffled as to the utility of this testing program. Do people rush off to be tested when they suspect they have a cold or Flu! What does it avail them if they learn that yes, they really do have said infection?

      1. I couldn’t really understand why my two very sensible friends were seemingly obsessed with this app, and another that they reported to daily to say they were well. We had lunch together the other day, and I kept my phone in my pocket.

    1. They try to convince the gullible that migrants put more into our coffers than they take out, but I know it’s not true. They are a drain on our resources.

      1. The UN has its own agenda which, in this case, is totally incompatible with the interests of the UK. They should stay out of what are essentially our internal affairs.

    3. its a benefit to the UK because it takes the sponges of the hands of the unhcr. Since you pay over the odds to un programs, its probably cheaper in the long run than paying the UN admin fee.

      Oh and Canadians say thank you. If it wasn’t for your generosity, Trudeau would be sending our money

  60. One of my best friends, who used to teach in a rival public school to that in which I taught, was a housemaster with a Ph.D. in Chemistry, an excellent athlete (at one time he was Britain’s No 1 thrower of the assegai or javelin) and an envy-inducing guitarist. I always e-mail him the best jokes which appear on the Nottlers’ site and he sends me some of his scurrilous stories in return. For example:

    In the great days of the British Empire a new commanding officer was sent to a remote African bush outpost to relieve the retiring colonel.
    After welcoming his replacement and showing the usual courtesies, gin and tonic, cucumber sandwiches etc, decreed by protocol, the retiring
    colonel said, “You must meet my Adjutant, Captain Smithers. He’s my right-hand man and is really the strength of this entire post. His talent and energy is simply boundless.”

    Captain Smithers was summoned and introduced to the new CO, who was surprised to meet a hunchback, one-eyed, toothless, hairless, scabbed
    and pockmarked specimen of humanity, a particularly unattractive man less than three feet tall.

    “Smithers, old man, tell your new CO about yourself”.

    “Well, sir, I graduated with honours from Sandhurst, joined the regiment and won the Military Cross and Bar after three expeditions
    behind enemy lines. I’ve represented Great Britain in equestrian events and won a Silver Medal in the middleweight boxing division of the Olympics. I have
    researched the history of…..”

    At which point the colonel interrupted, “Yes, yes, never mind that Smithers, he can find all that in your file. Tell him about the day
    you told the witch doctor to fuck off.

    1. Thank you, Richard, a notable that has been added to My Bumper Joke Book, currently running at 502 pages.

  61. Eve was mooching around the Garden of Eden, looking disconsolate.
    “What’s wrong, Eve?”, asked God.
    “All the other creatures have mates except me.”, said Eve
    “Don’t worry, I can fix that,” said God, “I’ll create Man.”
    “What will he be like?”, asked Eve.
    “Oh,” said God, “he will be big, strong and protective…. and he will have a massive ego to go with it.”
    “Oh, goody,” said Eve excitedly. “Does that mean what I think it means?”
    “No” said God sharply. “It means you’ll have to pretend he was created first.”

    2. I saw an item on the BBC’s Arabic service where two women were interviewing an Islamic man.

      He said “Of course, Adam and Eve spoke Arabic”.

      Naturally the women didn’t dare to contradict him!

  63. I was ‘quite offended’ yesterday watching the evening news. They were discussing the new lock downs in the northern parts of England.
    Several people were interviewed on the streets and not one of them was Bame. Not a single one of them. Pull your socks up MSM keep up with events, you’re not playing the game properly.

          1. Agree – but I class that as Eastern Culture/History . . . Same as the BLM carry on . . . BLACK matters . . .

      1. Great Ellie much better then i had expected.
        Google Celtic Haven, we strayed in the Detached 4 bed two bathroom house.
        Only 5 and a half hours drive as well. The bottom end of Cornwall can take 9 hours. We even had quite a lot of clear blue skies and sunshine. Except the day my two younger sons an I went to play the links golf course at Tenby. It rained almost the whole time we were out there. Tenby is a lovely town lots of fine Victorian buildings, we saw a B&B for sale at 450.00, 8 beds 7 bathrooms and three receptions rooms, huge kitchen. You wouldn’t be able to buy an ex council house for that near St Albans.
        But parking in Tenby can be a bit of a problem, there were lots more people there than we expected.
        Thanks for asking. 😊

  65. Well, the venison pie for supper became venison stew, with mashed potatoes & peas.
    Fabulous flavour, very filling & warming, perfect for a chilly, railny October night.
    Man, I’m stuffed… :-o)
    Firstborn is an excellent cook, so he is.

  66. President Trump plans to name Judicial Watch president Tom Fitton to a court oversight agency which has the power to remove certain judges for misconduct.

    The White House on Friday announced Trump’s intention to name Tom Fitton to the D.C. Commission on Judicial Disabilities and Tenure.

    Tom Fitton is currently the president of conservative watchdog group Judicial Watch.

    Recall, it was Judicial Watch that broke the story wide open about Hillary Clinton’s private email server in 2015.

    Judicial Watch is currently spearheading dozens of lawsuits in an effort to obtain Biden’s senate records, Strzok and Page communications, Hillary Clinton’s emails, Fauci’s emails with China and WHO just to name a few.

    Judicial Watch’s lawsuits have also forced many states to clean up their voter rolls.

    Tom Fitton works tirelessly to expose DC corruption to drain the swamp.

      1. Oh, yeh, please, please, pretty please. We need to fight back and expose these biased, bigoted clowns, in such a way that they and/or their offspring never, ever take public office.

        1. I would certainly ban any child of an MP/senator/representative from ever being elected to Parliament/the Government.
          I would also ban any child of a senior civil servant from entering the civil service etc etc..
          Yes we mght have lost Pitt the Younger, Churchill and many others but the few good ones that would be lost are far outweighed by the complete and utter dross that is coming through all over the world.

  67. Discovered a Polish beer a week ago, called “Fox”. Heavy pilsner type, 7%, excellent flavour Really sleep- induciiiiiiiiiiii………………………

  68. This has to be the sickest joke ever:

    On Dame Jenni’s departure from the Beeb:

    “A BBC spokesperson said: “We wish Jenni well in her new career as a columnist but the public will understand the importance of impartiality whilst working at the BBC.”

      2. She failed to fall into line with the trans agenda, apparently. Her lack of bias was absolutely fine all those years while she was pushing feminism.

        One of the guests on her last programme was Harriet “PIE” Harman. Says it all.

    4. Quite so. The public understands that impartially from those working for its National Broadcaster is essential.

      Which is why increasing numbers are refusing to pay the TV Tax and the movement to defund the BBC is growing apace.

  69. I hate taking down scaffolding in the rain! My God, how much stored water does the blessed stuff have, and how does it all run up my sleeves? Now stacked against the house to drain, before we put it away in the morning. :-(( Now indoors with strong beer to take away the horror!
    EDIT: and enjoying the smell of venison pie in the oven… drool!

    1. One learns (pre school) that MacPherson’s “piece” aye lands butter side doon.

      The law according to sod proceeds from there on… first rule of power-washing “whatever is washed off lands on the washer”… I assume that the water on scaffolding follows the same rule.

      1. …and the paint from the paint-sprayer.
        That included my spectacles, btw.
        I just wonder what clown thought that the drain holes in the rungs should point UPWARDS?? Fytti fæn… :-((

        1. Or did some clown put things together the wrong way up?

          She asks, lowering her head below the desk…

          2. Don’t think I ever pretended to be meek 😉

            Hope you’re having a better Sunday.

          3. Was that better or wetter…? The latter so far – stacking scaffolding in the rain is pretty dismal, but I’m dry, warm & fed now, with a strong beer, and likely to snooze shortly!

          4. Getting wet isn’t so bad when you know that you can quickly get dry again. Getting wet before 10:00 and knowing that you’ll be wet for the next 6, 7 or even 8 hours is pretty dismal.

            Enjoy your snooze.

        2. Or did some clown put things together the wrong way up?

          She asks, lowering her head below the desk…

    1. And the illegal immigrants could be moved out of the hotels into the elderly people’s houses to make the space.

      If the elderly person dies the immigrant gets the house.

      1. We are all falling into line on the same wave length – I did not see that comment until you posted it.

    5. Gosh. I think if that were me, my response would be two words and the second would be “off.”

    6. Aye, now we know why Police Scotland were advising people to have “grab-and-go” bags packed, ready for emergency “evacuation”.

      I believe it was Reinhard Heydrich who coined the euphemism “evacuation” at the Wansee Conference of 1942, when describing the arrangements to transport all Jews to the East, for “Special Handling”.

    7. I fail to see how the “elderly” (no doubt defined as everyone over 70, regardless of how active they might be) would be safer in an hotel than they would be in their own homes. This is sinister in the extreme.

      1. The article says over 45, they will probably compromise at 50.

        As the four star hotels are being used for the newcomers, will the elderly be shipped off to the nearest Travelodge?

        Mandatory quarantine in a hotel is (almost) working in Australia and NZ so I can see where they get their idea, but to lock up maybe a third of the population is beyond belief.

        P.S. I want the suite at Claridge.

      2. Well, they didn’t get enough of them dead by herding them into residential and nursing homes, the first time, did they? This is Action: Take Two. There is more than one way to skin a cat. “We’re from the Government and we’re here to help.”

      3. There could be a case for moving the helpless and very old if their normal home-care-giver is incapacitated and they cannot cope by themselves. This happens already but it’s usually a bed in the nearest possible care home rather than a hotel.

        It is quite clear, from reading the article, that there’s very little that is “sinister” here, more like someone leaking a list of “toss it into the hat, then throw it out and forget about it” suggestions that someone was stupid enough to leave lying around.

    2. To quote the fear monger:
      “We need to have a conversation with the public about their expectations.”

      On the contrary, I would think that a conversation is needed with the NHS about the public expectations, setting the nhs workers right on what they must deliver, covid or not.

    3. Another apparatchik who needs to watch out. Eventually this liar and other wicked apologists for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation will meet their own Nuremberg trial. It will be no defence to say that they acted on instructions from above.

      The same rude awakening awaits Johnson, Hancock, Whitty and Ferguson. A few class actions brought by those who, during nonsensical lockdown(s), have lost relatives to untreated cancers, cancelled operations, physical neglect and emotional harm should ensure these idiots are subjected to the full force of the law.

        1. Evidently not but why not? We paid for his education and training and he has been rewarded with fabulous wages throughout his wretched career with our taxes.

          1. He is a professional committee and conference attender, picking up expenses as well as a whopping salary to trot out drivel like this.

    5. Dr Buist continued: “It is crucial to keep GP practices as Covid-free as possible, which is why we believe the top priority at this time should be the development of a dedicated, community-enhanced Covid pathway building on the success of the existing Covid-19 community pathways, that will safely divert respiratory activity away from A&E and general practice.

      Gobbledegook!

      2. Perhaps the good doctor could amalgamate his Covid-19 pathways with that tried and tested one, the Liverpool Care Pathway.

        As they say, all pathways lead to ……..

      1. #MeToo. I still cherish an ambition to live in a house where a fig tree would be possible.

          3. I have a friend in Cardiff (ok just outside) who has two trees but when the figs drop on the ground they attract a lot of wasps and one of her Labs keeps getting stung ‘cos he’s nosy!

          9. Your climate must be a lot more forgiving than ours. Every ten years or so, we have a winter that kills everything delicate.
            Hope you get lots of figs in due course!

          10. They do have a bit of shelter (from other trees and a fence). Fingers crossed they will be okay.

          11. Fig trees are prominent in old Jewish cemeteries. I have not researched this phenomena.

            For example, there is an old Jewish cemetery opposite the Queens Elm PH on the corner with Fulham Road, if the pub is still there.

            The cemetery was behind a tall brick wall and the branches would overhang the wall, often laden with figs.

            Edit: whenever I find a Black Mulberry I know there will be a deep water well nearby.

      1. Can’t you make it for yourself while he’s out playing golf? It takes less than 30 minutes.

    1. The Germans have an expression: …und damit wurde der Fisch gegessen (…& with that the fish was swallowed), meaning something trivial was achieved with a lot of fuss.

      1. That reminds me of the wonderful German word Aktionismus.
        Kind of goes with German culture really. And is a great put-down in the workplace.

          1. I guess that probably reflects the ethos of the places you worked then!
            I first came across it when a colleague wrote “Das ist nur Aktionismus” on a bug ticket. Pointless activity, done to make oneself look busy – our project managers in two large companies were rather good at it!

          2. There not much time for Aktionismus in a busy dental practice.

            I remember when I worked in the local parks dept in my gap year. My duties included gardening, mowing, hedge-trimming, etc. The foreman told us it was OK to stop & chat if a friend came by, “But for God’s sake make sure you are holding a work-tool of some sort in your hand, otherwise we’ll have the local rate-payers moaning down the phone at us.” He was a great guy, was George.

          3. The other word in this area is Arbeitbeschaffungsmechanismus/Arbeitsbeschaffungsmaßnahmen – the art of creating unnecessary work for others by doing something wrong.

          5. The other word in this area is Arbeitbeschaffungsmechanismus/Arbeitsbeschaffungsmaßnahmen – the art of creating unnecessary work for others by doing something wrong.

  75. Said on the radio earlier today that Trump has some nasal congestion, a sore throat and a slight cough, so just a cold then.

    His physician is administering some nightnurse

      2. The nightnurse, Sister Getya Legova, has been sent to him by Vladimir Putin, as a gesture of friendship.

        She should clear his tubes out.

    1. I sat and read most of the paper copy this afternoon, but haven’t got as far as the obits yet.

      1. Sadly since Happy parrot died over a month ago, I haven’t needed to buy the DT.

        The DT was the only broadsheet I could fit spread out in the bottom of his cage tray.

        2. We buy the Saturday one, or get it free with Waitrose shopping. I paid for it today as we didn’t need anything else.

          1. Spend a tenner on non-perishable future essentials and get the paper for nothing.

          3. I know what you mean. But picking up some small stuff, soap, toothpaste or whatever to stuff into your pocket?

          4. Haven’t been to Waitrose for over a month either, which is in Dorchester. No Latte’s to drink in the car , which I used to love after shopping!

          5. It’s only the second time I’ve nipped into Waitrose since we stopped playing table tennis in March.

    2. Out of today’s obits I would guess Frank Windsor. Otherwise I would guess at ……. no, better not!

        1. Mary Fetherston-Dilke, naval nurse who served in Egypt and Palestine – obituary
          She specialised in theatre nursing, and many surgeons, including Vice-Admiral Sir James Watt, insisted that she be at their side

          1. James Watt – the steam energy man? Gosh – you watch out, Robert – Mags will be after you!!

          3. James Watt – the steam energy man? Gosh – you watch out, Robert – Mags will be after you!!

    3. well if it had been p-t asking, I would have guessed some Spanish sherry magnate, maybe even tio pepe him/herself.

        1. Did you ever come across my cousin, Sally Murray, Queen Alexandra’s Royal Naval Nursing Service?

          She is older than me, she’ll be 80 this year; she is married to Admiral Tony Casdagli, RN (Rtd).

          1. Yes, Tony Casdagli was Commander Air … I think at RNAS Culdrose in the early 1970’s when Moh was undergoing flying training . I cannot recall your cousin though.

            We all live in a small world really , don’t we.

          2. Sally had been a senior air stewardess with Pan Am before joining the QARNNS.

            She didn’t meet and marry Tony until the late ‘Eighties.

  78. I don’t want to be more of a wet blanket than usual, but the MR and I have just spent half an hour watching the local TV news from Nice.

    They have had the full force of Storm Alex in the hills above Nice.

    So far, in 24 hours, 18 people missing – presumed dead. 66 houses completely destroyed. Roads and bridges swept away. About a dozen communes (large and small) completely cut off. No electricity, water, phone signal.

    It was heart-breaking to see and hear. The one good thing was the extremely effective action by the sapeurs-pompiers and the police – and the Red Cross.

    Puts our “heavy rain” into some perspective.

    Those who wish might look at BFMTV.

    For us, the worst aspect was hearing the sodding politicians promising to do “all that it takes” to help the people affected. Meaningless claptrap. We know from our own experience that they NEVER do a thing. Insurance companies clam up; government grants get somehow diverted into planned major works that councils wanted to do but couldn’t. The poor sods who are homeless (and, prolly, jobless) – and without any furniture, clothing or car – will whistle.

    In our part of France, after the terrible flooding in 1999 – some people have STILL not been paid out….

    1. Living in France for the last decade has taught me not to trust the French under pressure.

      1. I beg to differ.

        In my experience – of four such catastrophes in 35 years, the local emergency services invariably do a grand job – without any fear of “hanging back” for ‘elfin safety. It is the politicians who let everyone down. Meaningless promises.

        1. Yes, the emergency services are exemplary in such circumstances. Second to none. My comment was aimed at those with ongoing responsibility, government departments, planners, insurers and other hand-wringers.

      2. Oh my word, that’s truly dreadful. Poor people. So do you think that in this kind of situation perhaps the U.K. isn’t quite as useless as usual?

      4. The DT shewed me a picture of a big hole and said, “That’s a road.”
        To which I replied, “No, that is NOT a road. That is where a road used to be.”

      5. Ouch, that is a lot of damage.

        Not just the politicians, wait for the insurance companies to find hidden exclusions in the house insurance.

        We have lots of flooding in the past few years and even when house can be cleaned up, the insurance company will normally deem the property prone to flooding and refuse to renew insurance. Home owners have no option but to accept the desultory compensation offered by the local government.

          1. You think that will protect you from the insurance company small print?

            As ex employer told a workmates when he was laid off – if you want to appeal the decision, go ahead, we can afford better lawyers than you can!

          2. So did some of the people in the Alpes-Maritime, Missus, until the hill itself began to slip into the river.

          5. That’s true but it was hit by a two-storey house caught in a landslide. (sorry, the description in my post was not correct). Probable an event nobody considered.

        1. Those are some of the less awful ones. There are videos of houses falling into raging torrents; bridges being washed away….

          There is just one bit of good news. A senior police officer who was washed away and presumed dead, was saved and is back on duty.

          And more rain is expected tomorrow to add to the billions of gallons rushing down the hills to the sea.

    1. yes but you don’t understand.

      Russell through notes. Ah yes here we are excuse number 95 , it takes several weeks for the infection to spread.

    2. Oh! Just like Fergusons’ bullshit.

      Gee, you don’t half have some pillocks in the UK.

    3. How dare he come barging in with his nasty old facts!
      Of course, they will say that it was the lockdown that made the difference.
      Rather contradicted by evidence from Sweden and Belarus.

  80. That’s me gone for this depressing day. Miserable weather here – but – compared with what I referred to below- nothing to complain about

    Don Giovanni on Radio 3.

    A demain.

  84. I’ve extended my COVID infection model to include deaths following a positive test within 28 days:

    This model needs refining because ‘COVID’ deaths currently include deaths from other causes.
    This model calculates COVID infections based on an R=1.1 and the Government’s death to infection ratio of 0.09

    Note that the graph stops at day 189 when all UK population has been infected.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2cadd557a9a91216bc757ab3f917803e351e6f3e7e1e3461461919f9381ec3b6.jpg

    Column A: Day of pandemic
    Column B: UK Total infections
    Column C: UK Total deaths
    Column H: UK death/infection ratio

  86. It is both shocking and revealing that a number of lefty luvvies are ready to wish President dead and prepared to dance on his grave.

    Covid is the least of our concerns by comparison with the social virus that has infected the lefty luvvie community.

    The left are comprised of truly nasty individuals and folk with no regard for others falling outside of their narrow vision and beliefs. I suppose it was ever thus but nonetheless in C21 Britain it is inexcusable.

    1. After the reaction to Margaret THatcher’s death, I am no longer surprised at the nastiness that is the Left.

  87. Did the ‘team’ members at the Walter Reid Medical Centre, Bethesda, Washington DC, conceal more than they revealed at the much-postponed, 4.00pm GMT Press Conference?

  89. My second COVID model was truncated at Day 189 when the whole UK population got infected.
    It’s obvious however that the total infections can’t go up.any further because everyone has been infected.

    So I’ve extended it to day 239 to show that the infection total has reached it’s peak and deaths due to COVID fall to zero because UK has reached 100% herd immunity.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/f0646979a19207d962a1743c911cd3d4e5059ef283fe0915207968cc0c9d45df.jpg

    There is still a major anomaly in this graph because I have not taken into account that as the deaths in the population rise there are fewer people left to get infected.

    I shall adjust the model to rectify this anomaly.

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