Sunday 27 December: The PM’s deal isn’t perfect – but it promises a brighter future for Britain

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its comments facility (now reinstated, but not as good as ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/12/27/letters-pms-deal-isnt-perfect-promises-brighter-future-britain/

625 thoughts on “Sunday 27 December: The PM’s deal isn’t perfect – but it promises a brighter future for Britain”

  2. Morning, much like T_B, the wind and banging gates has woke me up!

    How I wish it would pass and I could get some sleep! zzzzzzz

  3. Outsmart a woman, are you kidding?

    A man calls home to his wife and says, “Honey, I’ve been invited to fly to Canada with my boss and several of his friends to go fishing, for the long weekend. This is a good opportunity for me to get that promotion I’ve been wanting, so could you please pack enough clothes for a three-day weekend. And also, would you get out my rod and tackle box from the attic? We’re leaving at 4:30 pm from the office and I’ll swing by the house to pick-up my things. Oh! And please pack my new navy-blue silk pyjamas.”

    The wife thinks this sounds a bit odd, but, being the good wife, she does exactly what her husband asked.

    Following the long weekend he returns home a little tired, but, otherwise, looking good. The wife welcomes him home and asks if he caught many fish?

    He says, “Yes! Lots of walleyes, some bass, and a few pike.” “But”, he said, “why didn’t you pack my new blue silk pyjamas, like I asked you to do?”

    The wife replies, “I did, they’re in your tackle box”.

  4. Morning, all Y’all.
    Dark, hissing down & blowing a hooley here. Yukk. Staying in bed, nowt else to do.

    1. ‘Morning, Paul. & all others.

      Tremendous wind & rain here in the small hours, but I slept through the racket as somebody’s wheelie-bin was blown along the road & is now lying, empty, across my entrance. It will be interesting to see how long it takes before the owner collects it.

    2. ‘Morning, Minty.

      There is not a shred of evidence in the article that lockdown is propagating the disease & Fraser makes no attempt to suggest an alternative policy.

      Just typical left wing carping without a constructive alternative.

      1. Elsewhere in Latin America, Argentina experienced a similar mid-lockdown explosion in cases and deaths. Its lockdown began on 20 March and was supposed to be short and sharp. It ended up becoming the longest continuous lockdown in the world. In June, Time magazine hailed Argentina’s success in containing the virus. But not long after, cases began to surge. The deadliest day of its pandemic was on day 145 of lockdown.

        1. That is no proof that the lockdown caused the spread of the virus. You can’t tailor facts to make them fit the circumstances.

          1. But it is proof that lockdown didn’t halt the spread of the virus. Lockdown is killing businesses. It’s killing people’s livelihoods. It is not a cheap and easy policy, except to the government that decrees it shall happen.

          3. We can say that lockdown didn’t halt the spread of the virus, but it might have slowed it down. That last is speculation. We know nothing about the spread of the virus had there been no lockdown. That is another issue, as are the issues of employment & the economy, but my sole issue is that there is no evidence that lockdown caused the spread of the virus, as not maintained in the article which Minty was quoting.

          4. ‘Morning, Peddy, could the lockdown be blamed for preventing the spread of ‘herd immunity’ and thus an increase in infections?

          5. That could be argued, Tom, (& good morning) but you can’t have a spreading of herd immunity without a spread of infections. I’m speaking pre-vaccination, of course.

          6. 327838+ up ticks,
            Morning Ptv,
            The lab/lib/con coalition party ( the close shop) do just that ALL the time.

          7. ‘Morning ogga1.

            You may very well think that, but I wouldn’t possibly comment, as it is not relevant to the matter under discussion.

      1. 327838+ up ticks,
        Morning B3,
        It’s the latch lifter deal prior to the
        exit & NOT post that should be the main worry.

        The exit has been left part ajar.

  7. Alison Hammond reveals she initially TURNED DOWN role replacing Ruth Langsford on This Morning because she ‘was afraid her role would be seen as tokenism’. 27 December 2020.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/eb92997661aa60522eb4f460d2283b3dad466987d105bfc7f003b750f014b12b.jpg

    The new black presenter of ITV’s This Morning was so concerned that her promotion might be perceived as ‘tokenism’ that she initially turned down the role, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.

    Why would anyone think that?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9089853/Alison-Hammond-reveals-initially-TURNED-role-Morning.html

      1. And a wonderful advertisement for the obesity crisis. Not ‘eye candy’ but ‘eye pies’.

        ‘Morning, Peddy.

      1. PC I think Stephen. The BBC has probably the most diverse and ugliest female presenters on air!

        1. I’m surprised there isn’t a moving Government Health Warning at the bottom of the TV screen

  8. Meghan Markle ‘plans to follow in the footsteps of Prince Charles and pen her first novel. 27 December 2020.

    Now word reaches me that she appears to be planning to follow in the footsteps of Prince Charles and Sarah Ferguson by trying her hand at fiction writing.

    Meghan has moved to secure legal protection that will allow her to pen novels via Archewell, the foundation she’s set up with Prince Harry.

    Ghost writers of the world unite and throw away your pens!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-9089383/TALK-TOWN-Meghan-Markle-plans-pen-novel.html

    2. Before Plum can suggest it -how about suggestions for the Book’s Title?

      “The Princess and the Pee’d off Nation”

  9. ‘Morning, Peeps. It’s precipitating down here, but we are promised sunshine later.

    Here’s today’s crop of post-Brexit letters:

    SIR – The Brexit trade agreement secured by Boris Johnson is not the perfect deal that many of us dreamt of when we voted to leave the EU in 2016. But that was never going to happen – and, while the devil is in the detail, it appears to be much better than I had recently imagined.

    I predict that our future relationship with the EU will be far more cooperative and mutually beneficial than it has been over the last 40 years. We were always the unwelcome party guest (even though we brought lots of presents) and we knew this, yet we kept returning in the hope that things would change.

    I am pleased that, against all the odds, Britain now has the chance to restore its sovereignty and pride.

    Mike Patterson
    Camberley, Surrey

    SIR – If this is a Canada-style deal, I pity Canadian fishermen after the bulk of their fishing grounds were ceded to the EU. I pity Canadian business because it is forbidden from competing against EU rivals by being more efficient. And I pity Quebec, which has been annexed by the EU.

    Martin Burgess
    Beckenham, Kent

    SIR – Of course Mr Johnson has made mistakes – but the person who doesn’t make mistakes doesn’t make anything.

    Eric Vaughan
    Alford, Lincolnshire

    SIR – As shadow fisheries minister when William Hague was Conservative leader, I committed the party to withdrawing from the Common Fisheries Policy.

    I lost my seat at the ensuing general election of 2001, and the policy was eventually abandoned. The change had been significant, however, because it implicitly acknowledged for the first time that the CFP could be reversed with the necessary will.

    The deal that Mr Johnson has struck on fishing is a stunning achievement, far beyond anything I expected. It gives time for the British industry to respond to the opportunities offered by regaining control of our waters.

    It also accepts – as it needed to – that our former European partners deserve time to adapt. After all, it was not their fault that Edward Heath betrayed the UK to gain admission to the Common Market. That was our fault and ours alone – and the Prime Minister, to his great credit, has reversed that.

    Patrick Nicholls
    Hemyock, Devon

    SIR – I would like to thank Gina Miller, Mark Carney, Jo Swinson, Tony Blair, Antoinette Sandbach, Michael Heseltine, John Bercow and the BBC, whose botched attempts to sabotage democracy gave the PM the strength to negotiate the Brexit deal we wanted.

    Peter Lloyd
    Northwich, Cheshire

    SIR – Now Brexit has been delivered, it’ll be fascinating to see whether other EU countries follow suit.

    Robin SeQueira
    Lytchett Minster, Dorset

    1. Which is why, Mr SeQueira, there will be regular punishment beatings from the EU- to discourage the others.

      1. I wouldn’t advise any of the other EU countries to trust Britain to support them should they break away either.

        1. Yes BB2, certainly some portions of the Civil Service will go out of their way to make life difficult for other Leavers rather than do what is best for their country.

          1. Exactly. The leaders of Britain are seldom in step with its people, and never less so than today.

  10. SIR – House-buyers also need an impartial estate agent.

    The concluding progress of my last house sale was disclosed to the vendor of my intended purchase, which resulted in a revised asking price – despite my offer having been accepted.

    Malcolm Smith
    Wilmslow, Cheshire

    With agents ‘chain-checking’ at frequent intervals, as they do these days, there is bound to be some information released. No, Malcolm Smith, you were buying from an unscrupulous vendor who was not to be trusted.

    1. Good day, Hugh. A lifetime doing conveyancing taught me that – apart from adultery – house buying and selling is the area in which people lie the most.

  12. It was the way the presenter Martin Hanley pronounced it a few moments ago with a momentary pause mid sentence that had me wondering for a moment:

    “No Poo Lank this morning……”

      1. It certainly was fierce. The sun is now shining so the afternoon dog walk should be pleasant although the forest is very muddy. As we know, Springers are mud magnets.

  14. I am pleased that, against all the odds, Britain now has the chance to restore its sovereignty and pride.
    Mike Patterson Camberley, Surrey

    Life in Britain 2021 and onwards

    Out of the frying pan into the fire.

    We wil replace the EU, with BLM, so no change: we still will not be able to govern our country in the best

    interests of the whole of the country and it’s population

  15. A woke church is doomed to fail. 27 December 2020.

    Many church leaders appear to have arrived at the conclusion that the best way to respond to this is to try to please those that are antagonistic towards Christianity. This has meant enthusiastically embracing the zeitgeist of our time; in short, the strategy is to ‘go woke’. At times, this has involved pushing an agenda to compete with the most radical factions of socialist or green-movements. But this is doomed to fail and alienate the church’s most loyal followers.

    Christianity has stood the test of time, but a church that seeks to appease the zeitgeist of the time, rather than stick to its principles, will not. William Ralph Inge said ‘Whoever marries the spirit of this age will be widowed in the next’. Christian denominations around the world are in grave danger of falling into this trap.

    A “Woke” church is simply a vehicle for the transmission of atheist, anti-white and anti-Christian propaganda. This can be seen more obviously in the Church of England whose Primate is simply a glorified Social Justice Warrior devoid of any spiritual qualities whatsoever!

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/a-woke-church-is-doomed-to-fail

    1. “Whoever marries the spirit of this age will be widowed in the next” is a great quote.

      Does anyone known how to join the resistance movement inside the Church of England against Welby?

      He is driving the Church of Cranmer, Latimer and Ridley downhill faster than a greased pig, but the problem to ordinary members is, how do we reclaim our churches, which are owned lock, stock and barrel by that now corrupt organisation?

      1. Yo Mr Effort.

        The difference is that baboons, gorillas, macaques, gibbons, lemurs, chimpanzees and lorises are far more intelligent beings than the primate of all England.

  16. BBC embroiled in race row after Carols from King’s broadcast ‘failed to feature any ethnic minorities’
    BBC 2 broadcast Carols from King’s College in Cambridge on Christmas Eve
    Not one of the 13 singers on the programme were from ethnic minorities
    The choristers were all selected by their school, Cambridge’s King’s College
    By MAIL ON SUNDAY REPORTER

    PUBLISHED: 00:39, 27 December 2020 | UPDATED: 00:44, 27 December 2020

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9089861/BBC-embroiled-race-row-Carols-Kings-broadcast.html

    2. Yer Blecks and heavily tanned folk don’t do choral singing.
      There probably weren’t any horses there, either, for the same reason.

      2. That’s not the case Paul. I remember a “black” choir boy with a beautiful voice singing in the choir at York Minster when I used, occasionally, to attend evensong there… back in the early ’80s. The number of coloured choristers is not large, and there is no reason to think that any choir at any time should have members who are coloured to satisfy any notion of “balance” or anything else. But there are coloured choristers, both boys and girls, and they sing in some of the best choir schools in the country.

    3. The West Indies Cricket Team has no whiteys

      Neither does the Indian, Pakistan, Sri Lanka teams

      No Whitemen in Nigerian footbal team

    4. ‘Morning, Mags, my initial reaction was Oh, FFS!

      I have to wonder if our local vicar (who has supported our every effort to maintain and keep our little church) is in reality of the ‘woke’ persuasion.

      As Lay Chair of the the PCC (Parochial Church Council – responsible only for the church fabric) I hesitate to call him out but the temptation is great.

    5. I wonder if the millionaire, chipped shoulder, petrol head was behind the “complaint”….

    8. Couldn’t possibly have been because ethnics tend to be of a different religious persuasion and so wouldn’t want to be involved in a Christian service?

    9. Perhaps they just selected the best voices…if so they are in deep sh1t now.

      ‘Morning, Belle.

      3. Silly woman. Next you’ll be suggesting nonsense like choosing based on merit rather than quota.

        We tried that. It wasn’t fair on the less capable, so everyone must be dragged down to ensure a level playing field.

    11. The West Indies Cricket Team has no whiteys

      Neither does the Indian, Pakistan, Sri Lanka teams

      No Whitemen in Nigerian footbal team

      2. All that proves is that the respective selection committees in those countries are far more intelligent than the selection committees in the UK.

      3. Yeah, quite .

        Good morning OLT

        That lot will soon be whining about white snowmen not being black .

        Gospel singers don’t belong in my culture , it used to be bad enough listening to pop singers were in the majority black in the year dot!

        1. Gospel is gospel, and choral choral.There’s even a difference between English choral and Norwegian (according to SWMBO, who has sung both – don’t ask me, I have canvas ears)

    13. Perhaps they just selected the best voices…if so they are in deep sh1t now.

      ‘Morning, Belle.

  19. Good morning from the Saxon Queen with clean axe and longbow.
    Hope you all had a blessed Christmas day and Boxing day .

    The sun has just come out, how beautiful, it shan’t stay for long .

    1. Hmmm, at the 2 minutes 20 point with an abrupt stop, was she shot, or physically dragged away?

      Truth hurts eh?

      1. No, for a female Master degree person it was over the top and I wonder what her reason for saying Covid – 19 is not real. Otherwise I agreed with her and she is a brave lady to have given us her thoughts.

  21. The Bidonians at play. 26 December 2020.

    Joe Biden’s niece Caroline Biden pleaded guilty to DUI on Dec. 3 — and was sentenced to 20 days to six months of “confinement,” Pennsylvania court records said.

    But the small print shows Biden, 33, won’t see a day behind bars after she negotiated a plea deal with the Montgomery County district attorney.

    Instead of jail, she got five-plus months of probation, with 20 days of rehab in January counted toward her sentence.

    Morning everyone. Who knows what all this cost in either cash or favours returned? What we can be certain of is that the future First Family of the United States will be a dysfunctional criminal organisation. Its Patriarch, a senile hair sniffing paederast; his offspring drunkards and drug takers, their activities taking bribes and dealing favours for foreign powers. To think they exchanged Trump for this!

    https://turcopolier.typepad.com/sic_semper_tyrannis/2020/12/joe-bidens-niece-caroline-gets-no-jail-time-after-dui-guilty-plea-fox-news.html

    1. Just shows you how discerning the Demos really is …..(Def: the common people of an ancient up the GCreek state s.

      Morning Minty et al

      1. Morning Stephen. The inhabitants of the ancient Greek States were far better informed about the politics of their day than is the demos of today on like matters.

    2. The Bidens, FirstFeral family of the USA. It will be interesting to see how this shyster’s presidency works out as Harris’s and Obama’s policies start to bite. Many who voted Democrat, less of course those who were dead when they cast their ballots along with those who were the result of algorithms etc, will be very disappointed, probably angry. Whatever, they chose to vote for a shady old man with a 47 years long political record during which he achieved the square root of sweet FA for his country. You reap… and all that.

      1. At the election there were 213.8 million registered voters in the US and 66.2% of all voters voted in the 2020 election. That equals 141.5 voters who voted.

        If President Trump won 74 million votes, then that leaves only 67.5 million votes remaining for Biden. This means 13 million duplicate or made up ballots were created and counted for Biden!

        Is there a simple explanation for this other than outright fraud?

    3. 327838+up ticks,
      Morning AS,
      I wonder, if they take the power throne will
      pin stripe be a major part of their dress code.

        1. 327838+ up ticks,
          Morning NtN,
          As in an outer ovis overcoat concealing an inner
          Canis lupus.

          I believe that pin stripe wearers can be taken as being beyond reproach, and the apparel is used more as a uniform of the honest & just, IMO the wearers think that also.

  22. SIR – South Africa has a very advanced system for buying and selling houses (Letters, December 20). Everything is done on a signature, so no prospective buyers drop out at the last minute without a 10 per cent penalty. But the best thing is the legal process. The seller picks the solicitor and the buyer pays for them. One person handles both sides so there are no postal delays.

    “For sale” signs aren’t left outside the house; they are put up on Saturdays, along with direction signs at junctions ready for the open day on Sunday, when the seller goes out and leaves the house to the estate agents, who display it like a show house.

    Steve Cattell
    Grantham, Lincolnshire

    “But the best thing is the legal process. The seller picks the solicitor and the buyer pays for them. One person handles both sides so there are no postal delays.” This may be efficient but will surely create a conflict of interest on occasions. And ‘open days’ are nothing new, either – our daughter employed this technique in order to save constant clearing up after three young children and the disruption that these vists inevitably cause. We used a similar process back in August, with ten viewings in two days, all conducted by us. We had three offers in just 4 days.

  23. Temper duly lost. I’ve been trying to repaint our bathroom ceiling. A tiny bit of paint – about 4cm long – had split, and the edge were getting moldy. Cleaned away the mold, sanded and scraped away the flaking paint.

    Fairly soon I had a metre square of bare plaster. Sanded, painted. Paint starts peeling. Scrape, sand, paint. Paint starts peeling.

    I’ve done that four times and each time the damned thing peels in a different place. Now other bits are peeling and.. I’ve had enough. I’m going to ask a painter and decorator to fix it as the cracking paint can’t be normal.

    1. Have you tried a primer-sealant undercoat before painting?

      There are several kitchen and bathroom variants on the market and I’ve found they work reasonably well.

      1. Yes – this zinser stuff a painter recommended is my ‘base coat’.

        That’s what’s cracking. I can only think it’s damp and needs ‘sealing’ with pva or something.

        1. Is there a another in their stable for sealing before that stage?
          I’ve used polycell wall sealant to stop staining coming through and then used undercoat and topcoat. Are you certain you don’t have a small leak somewhere?

          1. Fairly – the plaster looks dry – and it’s not that old – the cracking paint only occurred after 5 years (when the entire bathroom was completely re-done.

            What it is (the plaster) is blasted cold.

          2. Anyone who ever tried emulsioning an Artexed ceiling will know that a sealant is required; it’s a bit like runny wallpaper paste.

            Vinyl emulsions on kitchen and bathroom surfaces might seem a good idea but they can peel off in strips. Water-based emulsions might be better.

            Ask an expert!

          3. If the bathroom ceiling is that cold wouldn’t that result in condensation on the plaster.

            Maybe when you inspect the loft, take a few batts of insulation with you.

          4. Too big to get in the loft – that had insulation rolled into it in October – went from almost none to about 75cm of the foam stuff.

            I’m assuming it’s cold because the windows are all open upstairs – heck, the heating has come on because it’s below 15’c.

          5. That’s more insulation than we would use on a house up north, we have a mere twelve inches of fiberglass here.

            Could they have missed a bit? Time to call in an expert like you suggest otherwise we will have you ripping down the ceiling and replastering with some exotic Scandinavian product whose name only Peddy can pronounce..

          6. At this point, I honestly don’t mind what’s needed. Chum suggests running the dehumidifier in the AC for a bit.

            What bugs me is that the bathroom fan is tied to the lights. You can’t have the fan on alone. I’m miffed at that as I wanted them to be separate.

      2. I think my bigger issue is I’m trying to scrape and repaint a bit, rather than scraping the entire ceiling. I write books – I don’t paint ceilings so I am admitting defeat and will get someone competent in and have it done properly.

    2. Did you ‘mist’ it before painting. This is a weak solution of emulsion and water.

      Alternatively do you have a water leak affecting the area?

      1. I don’t think so. I think the actual plaster is ‘dry’ but it’s so ‘wet’ in there that paint won’t cure.

        Either way, I have thrown in the towel (into the washer) and cleaned the brushes.

    3. Buy a tin of Unibond, dilute it by about three or four to one, paint it on the plaster and leave for a couple of days. That will bind your loose plaster. You can then go ahead and paint. Also pour some Unibond into the paint to help it adhere.

    4. Buy a tin of Unibond, dilute it by about three or four to one, paint it on the plaster and leave for a couple of days. That will bind your loose plaster. You can then go ahead and paint. Also pour some Unibond into the paint to help it adhere.

    5. Buy a tin of Unibond, dilute it by about three or four to one, paint it on the plaster and leave for a couple of days. That will bind your loose plaster. You can then go ahead and paint. Also pour some Unibond into the paint to help it adhere.

    6. When we moved out of the big city we bought a house that had been built in 1905, quite ancient for these parts.

      There was a small crack in a ceiling so I gave it a bit of a tap to see if there was any loose plaster to be taken care of. The whole ceiling came tumbling down, leaving the bare lathe exposed.

      At that point the leisurely retirement renovation became a more urgent professional job.

      1. Better then than at a later time when you were sitting under it. Have you checked the other ceilings?

        1. We (with help) ripped all of the old plaster out of the whole house, a very dusty job.

          The wood frame was in perfect condition but I rewired and replaced the plumbing before the builder refinished the plaster work.

    7. I was painting the ceiling of small bedroom. I went for a natural break in the bathroom on the other side of the landing. While I was there the ceiling in the bedroom collapsed. Enormous chunks of plaster fell all over the steps I’d been using and elsewhere besides. The plaster was very thick and heavy.
      I had a lucky escape. The plaster had been applied to a ceiling of lathes, in the old-fashioned way, and the lot had come down. I called a number in the local paper classifieds. A plasterer duly turned up. He removed the old ceiling entirely and took it away in bags to his van. He put up plasterboard, taped it and plastered. All smooth and lovely and safe. All done in one day. The price was very reasonable. That was many years ago. There are no classified ads now, and getting tradesmen seems difficult.

    1. Good morning.

      Gate blown off its hinges. Wheelie bin went on holiday down the road. Pots blown over.

      I didn’t hear a thing.

  25. George Blake exemplified the desolation, waste and treachery of the cold war. Sun 27 Dec 2020 07.15 GMT

    Thanks to Blake and Philby, it can be seen, from information that later filtered out of KGB archives, that from 1945 until 1963 the Soviets were aware of the identities of 350-450 MI6 officers and assets. The service was a secret from the British public and often from the government, but not to Moscow.

    As a result of Blake and Philby’s treachery, the intelligence “game” – certainly on a human level – came to be not so much about gathering great military and political secrets as about penetrating each other’s agencies. Like the writings of his fellow MI6 officer, David Cornwell (John le Carré), whose identity he betrayed, Blake’s life and activities chronicle the utter waste, the cynicism and the desolation that was the cold war.

    The summing up seems to be more a get out than an explanation. The reality is that to all intents and purposes the KGB ran Mi6 for almost twenty years. The tragedy of it is that there has been no improvement because of it. The modern Secret Intelligence Service is simply a CIA substation specialising in the more unsavoury aspects of American Middle East policy, particularly Syria, where its activities are actually harmful to the UK.

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/dec/27/george-blake-treachery-born-of-idealism-still-a-waste

      1. The history of Marxism is one of the upper classes coercing the peasants into undertaking their dreams for a Utopian fantasy. Much like the modern UK in Fact!

  26. A powerful piece from Simon Heffer, following the death of Lady Tebbit:

    Lady Tebbit’s life laid bare the monstrosities of the IRA

    If the infamous Brighton bombing was the evil, then the abundant good was the way that her family showed strength in appalling circumstances

    SIMON HEFFER
    26 December 2020 • 5:00pm

    If, at this season of goodwill, you seek a lesson in good and evil, consider the late Lady Tebbit, who died last week. She was paralysed in the Brighton bombing of October 1984, which killed five people and injured over 30 others, including her husband Norman, then Trade Secretary. The bombing was an act of utter criminality, undertaken by a Provisional IRA operative who whined, preposterously, that he was fed up with the government describing the IRA as simply a criminal organisation. For what he believed to be the terrorists’ elevated principles, Margaret Tebbit spent the rest of her life in a wheelchair.

    If that was the evil, then the abundant good was the way that her devoted husband and children spent the rest of her life showing the strength of family and love in such appalling circumstances. By supporting her enormous spirit, will, determination and, above all, heroic bravery, this ensured she triumphed over not just disability, but over evil. But the wickedness that lay behind her afflicted state said something profound about the mindlessness of terrorism and the desire to impose someone else’s will in the face of democratic opposition.

    Magee, the bomber, subsequently did a PhD on fictional representations of the IRA. His life sentence was supposed to mean life, but he was released after just 14 years under the Good Friday Agreement. The Tebbit family had to endure not just that monstrous injustice, but the sight of another IRA murderer, Martin McGuinness, posturing as a leader of the Northern Ireland government. The IRA promoted a myth of oppression and of Northern Ireland’s “occupation”. There were democratic remedies to the sundering of six counties from the Republic of Ireland, and one day they will probably prevail. But because a minority of gangsters would not accept them, they chose criminality instead.

    Some relations and friends of Magee’s victims have chosen to forgive him; Lady Tebbit said she would forgive him if she thought he had genuinely repented of his wickedness. Lord Tebbit has asked, quite rightly, why Magee, if remorseful, has not provided information on his co-conspirators, so they, too, can be brought to justice. Of course he hasn’t, because once a gangster, always a gangster.

    It was daringly fashionable in the 1980s to argue that the IRA had a point. Pop stars did it. Student radicals did it. Some journalists did it. The prime minister recently appointed another apologist, Claire Fox, to the House of Lords. But anyone who ever thought the IRA were morally justified in its behaviour should have spent five minutes with Margaret Tebbit – not because she would have denounced them, or sought sympathy, but to see in human terms what suffering these criminals inflicted upon an innocent woman.

    Lady Tebbit inspired all who knew her; and the family who loved her are a towering example of decency in an ugly world. However noble her feelings were towards those who would have happily killed her, she will always be a reminder that some acts, and some people, are entirely unforgiveable.

    1. “It was daringly fashionable in the 1980s to argue that the IRA had a point. Pop stars did it. Student radicals did it. Some journalists did it.”

      …and don’t they still do it? BLM, Antifa, Dawn French as a recent example. I’ll never watch another Dibley diatribe. The woke idiots who want to cuddle up to Harry and Meghan. Any twat who voted (really or by subversion) for Biden. They are legion and we continue to kow-tow to these marshmallows that set themselves up as the arbiters of good taste and all that is right. I’m out of here!

      2. It isn’t about them, though. It’s about opposing those they hate.

        If you can paint yourself as the good guy, you can convince yourself everything you do is justified.

    2. Good morning Hugh. Some of the comments BTL are abhorrent but are still showing from last night. I suspect the mods are sympathetic to the disgusting views expressed.

    3. If only we had had Norman Tebbit rather than Major as party leader after the fall of Thatcher.

      But of course this is an absurd, wishful hypothesis because Norman Tebbit was completely loyal to Margaret Thatcher unlike most of the obscene Tories at the time such as Heseltine and Clarke.

  27. Being a bear of small brain I’m easily confoosed! I know how to turn my art canvases (and mobile phone) into portrait orientation or landscape orientation.

    I’m completely buggered, however, since I haven’t got a clue how to turn them into still life orientation!

  28. Spent two hours sorting out the attic. Gosh – the stuff…..

    Huge quantities of ring-binder folders; magazine storage boxes. Old maps….old computers….boxes of VHS tapes – what on earth to do with them?

    1. A friend who has been into computers since they became popular once told me that any old computer you were going to get rid of should have the hard drive took out first as nobody can remember everything what was put on them – and someone will always try to see what is on them. He got some old computers ( legally ) from where he worked, was promised they had been took back ( by the IT team ) to windows and nothing else on them ( for security) and then he showed me several things that the people mentioned in them would NOT be happy about being found and made public. Cleaned before disposal ??? Not very well.

      1. We junked some old laptops. Pulled the hardrives first, and used them as shooting targets. Little bits everywhere!

      2. Select the Settings option. On the left side of the screen, select Remove everything and reinstall Windows. On the “Reset your PC” screen, click Next. On the “Do you want to fully clean your drive” screen, select Just remove my files to do a quick deletion or select Fully clean the drive to have all files erased.

    5. Afternoon Bill and Nottlers. Wonderful bright day, just been out for walkers, lovely.

      I’m impressed, Bill, that it only took two hours to sort out your attic – it’s either very small or there’s not much in it,

      1. Well, we did have a clearout in 2011 when we returned from the MR’s job in Monaco. Nonetheless, I find that my tax files for 2001 are still there…!

        A large shredding job is required.

        1. We’ve had a shredder for many years now but when Alf was still at the court, 9 years since he left so around 2005/10, one of the CPS prosecutors told him that she just bunged all her financial stuff in their bin! Didn’t have a shredder. Her husband did the same and he was the CEO of some company or another. Alf couldn’t believe his ears.

          1. We have one – the MR has gamely offered to deal with it all, rather than paying £50 plus VAT for a lorry to come out and do it on site.

          1. I like the place and have just paid for sewer renewal (had to sell one of the children …), so it hopefully won’t come to that. But, the amount of crap up there…

    6. Most councils don’t recycle VHS cassettes. However there is a company that recycles them. They sell you a cardboard box for £150 to put them in and then expect you to pay postage to return it. No wonder fly tipping is so popular…

      1. Thanks, Mags. They work out at about £12 a tape! As most are cinema films, I can buy DVDs for a fraction of that!

      2. A few years back I got a chap to make the change from tapes to discs.. He had a studio in his garden. Then it cost me £10 per disc.

  29. Good morning all. A bright morning and a mild 0°C.

    Nashville bombing:- Possibly a suicide bomb, human remains found in the wreckage and on Saturday the Police searched “somewhere of interest” in the suburb of Antioch.
    T’Lad wonders if the bomber used the Holy Hand grenade?

    1. I had to – Royal Air Force, 1960 – 1969 – I was issued with a housewife (hussiff) containing, thimble, needles and thread, and was expected to mend my own uniform (shirt buttons, socks, shreddies etc.). I managed then and still do, today.

    2. Contrary to WLM (Wimmens’ Lives Matter), the RN did not pressgang the WI to serve on ships to mend tha sails

      It was done by men

      The Trade was that of Sailmaker. In the Fleet Air Arm, the Safety Equipment trade were the sewers

      2. In my own little world , everyone used to be issued with rolled up sewing kits , nicknamed ‘Housewife’s.
        Did you have one? Moh’s and my own vanished a few years ago .

        Sock and stocking darning thread , thread strong enough for heavy buttons and badges , scissors , craft hooks . They were such useful little packs . Elastic of all shapes and sizes and spare suspender gizmos

        I seem to remember that those on shore establishments had Wednesday afternoons as a Make and Mend time, usually a good excuse for sport of sorts .

        That was long ago of course .

        1. We didn’t get issued with the ‘suspender gizmos’ in the RAF – that must have been a naval (or even navel) thing – did the WRNS get them too?

          1. Did Grizzly join the Police Force’s Gilbert and Sullivan Society? If so is he featured second from the right in this photo?

        4. I still carry one in the car…along with a first aid kit, a candle, storm proof matches, a Mars bar, a plastic bag, a hailing saw, a compass, a foil blanket a flint and strike, cotton wool, potassium permanganate and sugar, water purifying tablets and insect repellent.
          I once went on expedition in Nepal with that Lofty Wiseman y’know.

          edit: Oops, forgot the paracord and fish hooks

        5. I still carry one in the car…along with a first aid kit, a candle, storm proof matches, a Mars bar, a plastic bag, a hailing saw, a compass, a foil blanket a flint and strike, cotton wool, potassium permanganate and sugar, water purifying tablets and insect repellent.
          I once went on expedition in Nepal with that Lofty Wiseman y’know.

          edit: Oops, forgot the paracord and fish hooks

          1. Wow,
            Where did you get that from.. I could get one for Moh and myself and a couple of spare , just in case .. Good Girl Guide motto, BE PREPARED.

            I have a small first aid kit and clean hankies in the car seat drawer.

          2. You can buy a “survival kit” in a tin which contains many of those items. Instead of Mars bars, I keep Kendal Mint Cake.

    3. If one visits the excellent Museum of Motor Transport in Coventry you can see how the humble sewing machine morphed into motorcycles and then cars (Singer being just one example). Interestingly the Museum has a complete section explaining how the Trade Unions ruined a good thing….

  31. Will some NoTTLer—preferably someone who is much brighter than me— please explain to me, in words that I can easily assimilate, the following?

    Why are George Blake, Anthony Blunt, Kim Philby, Donald Maclean and Guy Burgess considered to be treacherous people to the United Kingdom, when John Major, Tony Blair, Gordon Brown, David Cameron and Theresa May are not?

    I’m willing to wager (unless it is proved conclusively that I am wrong) that the latter five have caused far more damage to the fabric of the country than the former five ever did.

    2. I suspect one major difference is that George Blake, Anthony Blunt, Kim Philby, Donald Maclean and Guy Burgess were appointed to their respective posts on merit.

        1. Blair and Brown certainly did.

          They deliberately and with malice aforethought, set about wrecking all areas of the UK and its institutions.

          1. And whilst they were doing so, and in order to do so, they were voted into power three times consecutively by a largely vacuous electorate.

          3. Brown also liked fiddling the currency markets to continually borrow incredible sums of money – money they BBC didn’t even flicker at.

            Note they only started banging on about the national debt under the Conservatives – no mention was made that Brown’s the malicious oaf who firehosed the money into the public sector to buy votes.

          7. Possibly.
            But equally it might have resulted in the EU/Euro itself falling apart, if it had had to support UK QE as well as it’s own over 2007/8 crash.

          8. ‘Morning, Bill, I would seriously advise anyone who has a Euro account or any Euros at all, to get rid of them SASPO. Its fall will presage the collapse of the EU. I give it 24 months at most.

          12. It’s the practice of Peddy to practise pedantry!

            Talking of which, are not names proper nouns which should be capitalised? Ergo Rastus C. Tastey and NoToNanny are more correct pseudonyms than the uncapitalised peddytheviking – he should call himself Peddy The Viking

          13. I agree with what you say, in the main. However, he got his username, originally, under the old DT letters’ forum, as did I. That forum refused to permit capitals in usernames. Hence I was grizzly. Also garlands (among many others) was similarly in lower case. It was only contributors who received their usernames from Disqus or elsewhere, where capitalisation was accepted, who could use them in their avatars.

    3. After ruling for less than one year, Edward VIII becomes the first English monarch to voluntarily abdicate the throne, do you think he was of the same louche persuasion re treachery?

      2. It would certainly appear so, Margaret.

        [I attempted to send you Christmas greetings on Christmas Day but you seemed to be busy elsewhere. :•) ]

        1. Oh , so sorry , oh dear .. where was I?

          Searching for Father Christmas who had missed the house out .. took the dogs out for a long peaceful run , came back home more relaxed and posed for the usual photo’s.. putting on a strong face , then proceeded with supervising the Christmas meal .

          Hope your day was cheerful and heartwarming .

          1. It was nice and quiet, thank you. Christmas Eve evening (when most of mainland Europe celebrates Christmas) was a bit hectic and with much to eat, but the 25th was a bit like an English Boxing Day.

    4. ‘Morning Grizz. Don’t forget Grocer Heath, whose gift of our fishing grounds set a trend which most subsequent PMs took to be the green light for further surrenders. Habit-forming, it would seem.

      1. ‘Morning, Hugh. Without a doubt. I just chose the last five for ease. If I went back into history and formulated a table of prime ministers and made two columns: one column containing those who had the country’s interests foremost and the other containing those who has their own interests at heart, I’m guessing that the latter column would be twice as long as the former.

        2. I’d think there’d be at best 2 PMs. Churchill and Lady T.

          The rest are cretinous thieves. Boris… somewhere between the two.

    5. They are. The problem is an awful lot of people are thick and vote Labour. An even larger number of people are simply thick and don’t understand the basics of macro economics and believe what they see on the telly, unthinking.

      They were told that the ‘evul banks’ broke the economy while ignoring what Brown was doing to the banking code. When he removed the regulator – the Bank of England – they cheered the new organisation despite it being full of inexperienced staff and led by a crony, just as Brown wanted. Far easier to blame the banks who don’t give them free money instead of the man responsible. One involves no thought the other to understand complex problems. If you’re a stupid person which option would you take?

    8. 327838+ up ticks,
      G,
      In the UK it does depend a great deal on what party you support / vote for again,again,& again.

    9. “…the latter five have caused far more damage to the fabric of the country than the former five ever did.”

      Bending the knee to Brussels…

  32. Tanya Gold churned out her usual DT snottojourno on the blasted tourists daring to infest Cornwall; you know, those pariahs who spend money and provide jobs.
    The comments – all 5 of them when I last looked – were not complimentary. Goodness knows what followed in the intervening hours, as the comments section has now been closed

    1. She is fat Lunnon slapper who has gawn native and hates the sort of people she is like. If you see what I mean.

  33. Since the attack bots seem to be relaxing after Christmas, have removed the pre-moderation requirement for posts containing links. Let’s see how it goes.

    5. like Ontario on Boxing day. It snowed at about 7PM on Christmas day but until then we were having a green Christmas.

      So the government are having lockdown, well I’ll teach them, I am not going out in that weather – so there!

    1. Any change that would bring our fish back to us for us to earn the profits, would result in massive retaliation by the EU. It’s in black and white and agreed, perhaps even proposed, by our UK “negotiators”>

      1. Listen to this – a couple of ads part way through but these can be skipped. I was shocked, shocked, shocked! – but somehow not surprised. The Fishing Question comes up about half way through. Jeff Taylor describes this deal as being a transitional period to rejoining the eu in a few years time. I think he is correct.
        https://youtu.be/UrZp3zx0pUU

          1. Therein lies the problem, the usual suspects will never give up especially if large brown envelopes are involved from the even more usual suspects. ‘The price of liberty is eternal vigilence.’ What a curse upon our country the eu has been.

      2. 327838+ up ticks,
        Morning HP,
        To my mind we have been / are being sucker punched regarding covis / incarceration, used as a
        softening up process prior to a deal that has been agreed in many of it’s facets , long ago.

        They have in point of fact cast our fishermen upon the waters not only minus the paddle but also the boat.

    1. I think she was like de Gaulle in that.
      Fundamentally the interconnection of our commercial interests should have been an incentive to cooperate, the WTO, the Commonwealth, in fact any trading block, should be a benefit to it’s members.
      Then she saw that it was really a cabal for the benefit of a few at the expense of many. What a waste of a good idea.

      1. It all started with the great idea of a ‘common market’ until the empire builders saw their chance for power and money and waded in to wreck it. I do hope that future generations (who will have enough on their plates as it is) do not make the same mistake.

          1. Vastly help by the Americans, pouring cash into Germany with the Post-war ‘Marshall Plan’.

            At the same time America demanded every penny back from us for all the supplies and lease-lend material, effectively bankrupting us and preventing us from having a renaissance thriving economy after WWII to rival the ‘American Dream’.

          2. The US hates the UK because of the Empire. Special relationship my arse – they call for Brits to join in and die, the Brits just suck US c*ck.
            I watched a YouTube video about breaking padlocks for Independence Day (yes, I know I’m dull), and was surprised at the bile included about an event some 200+ years ago.
            Obarma hates the British, most US presidents hated the British (viz. Suez), so they exacted revenge even after they helped win the war.
            Never be confused about it: The US looks out for the US, and scr*w the Brits. Useful idiots all.

          3. but we would have been forced to speak german or russian without them.
            A friend’s granny died the other week, late 90s,;she was transported from Poland to Siberia as a youngster, just for being Polish.

          4. Indeed – but I don’t think their involvement was pure altruism.
            I have a lot of respect for the US and Americans, but also realise that not everything they do is for my benefit.

          5. I remember my parents very unhappy that Gemany came off rationing in 1947 and we came off in 1952. hence Labour government voted out after 1 term.

        2. Apologies Hugh but no. From the outset – from it’s very first inception as the coal and steel alliance the EU was designed to take over nation states. To subvert their governments and impose an unelected, unaccountable group in control of them.

          In a way this was the aftermath of WW2 and you could see the reasoning, but those starting this twisted abomination are like all power mad lunatics: they simply cannot help themselves.

          1. Yes, the intentions of the founders of the organisation were set out clearly enough in the Treaty of Rome as was the instruction that in order to achieve their ends they would have to lie – and that is precisely what Mr Heath did – he lied through his teeth.

            But when Kenneth Clarke – one of the fanatical advocates in favour of the EU – boasted that he had not even bothered to read the Maastricht Treaty it is hardly surprising that ordinary folk did not bother to read the Treaty of Rome before voting in the referendum: they thought that people like Heath would not have lied about it.

            We are all much more cynical – and perhaps a little wiser now.

      2. Good morning LessIsMore

        You sum it up perfectly in this phrase ‘What a waste of a good idea.’

        Many of us who naively voted to stay in the Common Market in 1975 thought it was an excellent idea at the time. As the years passed the reality and the truth began to dawn upon us.

        The reasons why we ‘went off’ the EU and came to despise it are clear. What is perhaps more interesting is why Mr Blair and Mr Kinnock – both of whom campaigned to leave the EC in the early 1990s – and other people in the political world became such ardent enthusiasts for this corrupt and damaging organisation.

    2. I think she was like de Gaulle in that.
      Fundamentally the interconnection of our commercial interests should have been an incentive to cooperate, the WTO, the Commonwealth, in fact any trading block, should be a benefit to it’s members.
      Then she saw that it was really a cabal for the benefit of a few at the expense of many. What a waste of a good idea.

          1. I’ve had a few of both winter thrushes passing through but good numbers of bramblings are hanging around. I had one small flock of waxwings feeding on the apple trees about a month ago but no further sightings since then.

      2. Definitely a redwing.
        Note the black strip through the eye with a pale strip above, then the just visible red patch on the flank, more noticeable when it takes flight.

  38. OT – any NoTTLer live in West Sussex and like walking? Among the pile of OS maps – there are three “Ramblers Atlas – The Pathfinders guide”.

    Free to a good home.

    1. Yo Bill

      Any::
      Thruppenny Bits
      Tanners
      Farthings
      Florins
      Halfcrowns
      Groats
      10 Bob Notes
      Guineas
      £1 Notes
      Apeknees
      Crowns

      etc

      Left over from your yoof

      They are all lost to us now

      1. Sadly not – but plenty of Stanley Gibbons stamp catalogues from the 1940s and ’50s…..

  39. Wot I wrote BTL

    Would it not be easy to analyse ALL the Covid data available, ie

    Number of deaths FROM Covid,
    age
    gender
    ethnicity,
    area where they lived,
    medical history,
    social background
    etc

    Then do the same for people who died WITH the disease

    The results of the deaths of the second group could be compared with deaths
    occurring over each of the last twenty or so years associated with flu or any other spasmodic virus

    Then we know the actual danger to the public. These data checks could be per week/month/ Season/year.

    The politicians would hate this data, as there the Panicdemic would prove to be a con ad control of the people would be lost

    1. Even though you repeated it and, either way, it makes a more understandable idea of the reality, I see that it has been down-voted by the local know-it-all.

      Does that mean that she goes along with the government and NHS’ idea of realistic statistics?

      Another victory for flawed thinking.

      1. …and of course that deserves a downvote from the flawed thinker.

        as will this, no doubt.

        Ner ner, ni ner ner.

        1. Without a rational rebuttal and a counter argument a downvote is the action of a child having a tantrum.

    2. I guess the data could be found in ons.gov.uk, but I found their presentation turgid and opaque, so tended to give up.
      What I want is the totals to date of:
      Numbers tested for Covid
      Numbers positive (false or otherwise)
      Numbers hospitalised
      Numbers respirator-ised (is that a word?)
      Numbers of dead.
      I can easily get these for Norway, would like to compare for the UK.

        1. Deaths are greater than number in intensive care becasue a few skipped that stage on their way to shuffle off the mortal coil. Mostly from care homes.
          COVID deaths are also given as % of annual suicides & total deaths, with a per-day comparison.

      2. Any death with COVID is being counted as from COVID. That’s simply falsifying statistics.

        If the information you are given cannot be trusted, neither can the response to it.

        1. Exactly. So much for “evidence-based medicine” – if the “evidence” is manipulated & wrong, then…

          1. It’s a cycle of wanting to frighten people into obedience to prevent a genuine issue but in so doing have the information questioned so people ar eno longer frightened, thus the terrorism becomes ever more strident until people either do obey unquestioningly or ignore it.

            At which point I imagine the state will crack down completely , viciously and then we are in trouble.

      3. The only number of worth is ‘number of deaths solely due to Covid 19 infection’.

        After that, deaths with covid and other co-morbidities. After all, blaming covid on the death of someone with pulmonary issues is simply absurd. Yet the state does conflate these two conditions.

        1. We also have numbers hospitalised in the last day, and total still in hospital as of the end of yesterday.

    3. I’ve looked at the ONS website and they say they use two terms, “due to Covid-19” and “involving Covid-19”.

      I have searched numerous parts of the website for the “due to Covid-19” but can’t find any data.

      Would be obliged if someone can find it and post the link. Not sure it exists.

      1. Here is a link to the USA Today “fact check” site.
        Two things to note,

        1. that USA Today is relatively pro Biden, pro Deep State and

        2. the fact check series is assisted by grants from Facebook.
        They will jump through any number of hoops to prove anything “right of centre” or pro Trump or that Trumps is in favour of is false.

        https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2020/09/01/fact-check-cdcs-data-covid-19-deaths-used-misleading-claims/5681686002/

    4. 327838+ up ticks,
      OLT,
      What must also be factored in is that a great many peoples agree to being “controlled” and the three monkeys find succour within the polling booth every time.

      Could it be a complete change of politicians, dare I say, could be the answer.

    5. This cannot done without looking at every document (death certificates from the beginning of the year), as all the sources and recorders messed them up, deliberately or just stupidly. This has prevented any sensible distinction and analysis of “cases”, actual numbers of people sick with Covid-19, deaths and so on.

      1. Correct. Flu deaths are calculated by algorithm and, as I have pointed out more than once on here, they are revised year by year.

      2. MILs death certificate lists every disease that she had been diagnosed with in the past five years whether directly involved in her death or not.

        Covid certainly hastened her death but It doesn’t offer any clues as to the interaction of covid with the cancer that had been diagnosed a year ago.

    6. But numbers are so easy to manipulate. CNN is reporting that one in one thousand Americans have died with/of covid.

      Now 350,000 is a lot of deaths from any cause but at first glance one in a thousand sounds horrific, makes it sound like everyone must know a victim.

      Can you imagine, at that rate everyone in the US will be dead by the year 3020!

        1. I will confidently raise that to all people!

          It doesn’t take away from the initial shock value of how many have died.

          1. Well, technically at that death rate the population will shrink to a point where *no one* is alive.

            I wonder what the average daily mortality is in the US? In the UK I remember reading it’s about 200 -250 a week from natural causes, illness and accident.

            If – IF – due to covid that was somehow now 300 deaths a week, i.e 50-100 more that would be a significant issue. However it isn’t.

            The stats are confusing, saying we’ve had more deaths – 1500 due to covid and yet fewer deaths overall over the year. That’s understandable due to fewer cars and what not.

            Yet… 1500 deaths solely from covid? In a population of what, 75-80 million?

  40. If Covid is such a deadly killing disease and UK is shut down because of it, should we not ban the following,
    which cause far more deaths

    Cars
    Country Lines
    Knives I will not mention BLM
    Alcohol
    Murders
    Hospitals ( high death rate in them)

    etc

    1. 327838+ up ticks,
      Morning OLT,
      Supporting the lab/lib/con coalition party has surely got to head the list.

    2. Its a good job you didn’t mention BLM – because if you HAD mentioned BLM the BLM would be up in arms at stereotyping a certain group of people ( BLM ) so thank you for NOT mentioning BLM and getting them upset.

      1. Black Looting Mob? Black looters are mindless? Communists Can’t spell?

        I really don’t understand people who bang on about capitalism. It works. That is self evident. That ocmmunism, socialism and all the others don’t is also self evident. I assume theose wanting an end to capitalism are simply fed up with working for a living. Yay, aren’t we ruddy all? All too often these ‘fairness and freedom’ bunch just want someone else to pay. Usually the ‘mega rich’ they all hate.

        It’s almost as if they think that making Jeff Bezos poorer – by confiscating his money and giving it to, well, themselves which is what they really want – they’ll somehow make the world fairer.

        All it means is Bezos won’t bother creating an Amazon and so destroy tens of thousands of jobs. This is obvious to me – why isn’t it obvious to the communists? Heck, they’re living proof themselves that they don’t want to work for a living.

        1. William Boetcker’s “The Ten Cannots” often wrongly attributed to Abraham Lincoln:

          You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
          You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
          You cannot help little men by tearing down big men.
          You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
          You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
          You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money.
          You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatred.
          You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.
          You cannot build character and courage by destroying men’s initiative and independence.
          And you cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they can and should do for themselves.

          1. And of course one might add the underlined bit in bold:

            You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class and race hatred.

          2. Sadly people don’t understand economics. There are small, greedy people who want what others have and call themselves communists.

        2. Your third paragraph is exactly what they want. They just don’t think further than their noses, if you know what I mean!

          I think the Great Reset is on a very similar path, to make us completely dependent on the state for everything, and roll back the life advances made over the last century.

      2. I have been so proud of Lewis Hamilton and his cronies over the past few months for standing up for (or should that be genuflecting towards) the Brexit Leaver Majority.

      1. County Lines is where illegal drugs are transported from one area to another, often across police and local authority boundaries (although not exclusively), usually by children or vulnerable people who are coerced into it by gangs. The ‘County Line’ is the mobile phone line used to take the orders of drugs.

  41. Dear all,
    I just wanted to take a minute to wish you all the best for the season of goodwill, a happy new year and most of all good health.
    I find these days that people don’t put much time or thought into some personal words to their friends and family and instead just copy and paste some random message they read from somewhere else. So, after all we have been through together this year I want to thank you all for your friendship and wish you a happy and fulfilling 2018. You are the best scuba group anyone could ask for.
    Best wishes, Margaret.

      1. Dear all,
        I just wanted to take a minute to wish you all the best for the season of goodwill, a happy new year and most of all good
        health. I find these days that people don’t put much time or thought into some personal words to their friends and family and instead just
        copy and paste some random message they read from somewhere else.         So, after all we have been through together this year I want to thank you all for your friendship and wish you a happy and fulfilling 2018. You are the best scuba group anyone could ask for.
        Best wishes, OLT

      2. Dear all,
        I just wanted to take a minute to wish you all the best for the season of goodwill, a happy new year and most of all good
        health. I find these days that people don’t put much time or thought into some personal words to their friends and family and instead just
        copy and paste some random message they read from somewhere else.         So, after all we have been through together this year I want to thank you all for your friendship and wish you a happy and fulfilling 2018. You are the best scuba group anyone could ask for.
        Best wishes, OLT

  43. The Boros Johnson oven ready Christmas Turkey Deal bakes in Net Zero and Build Back Better, and therefore Great Reset, because the UK is prohibited from diverging from EU environmental rules………

    So, far from becoming an ”independent coastal state” with loadsa fish as Chief Turkey Johnson incorrectly claims, the UK is about to sign up to yet another subjugation with no possibility of escape. Including sky high unaffordable energy costs and unworkable electric transportation…… and not much more fish, if any at all after the Dutch, Spanish and French have had their way over the next 5 years… and scooped up the lot !

    So through economically disastrous and unworkable energy policy, the Davos billionaires who direct the EU will still direct the UK. Their objective is a ”green” civilizational change making the future unrecognizable compared to the past.

    In other words.. the ”Great Reset”

    ”A Crash Worse Than The 1930s”…………..

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/12/26/german-economist-great-reset-will-cause-a-crash-worse-than-1930s/

  44. DT scare-mongering headline:

    “Storm Bella: UK battered with 100mph winds as fears escalate for elderly living alone”

    Of course they are living alone – the bunch of clowns posing as a government have ensured that by crushing the populating and banning them from associating.

    1. Had a phone call from one of my cousins living out in the Suffolk boondocks (not the one NtN knows); she and hubby have secreted themselves away since March. They have gone in for the whole nine yards: people standing at a respectful distance when delivering shopping; too frightened out of their wits even to visit the post office; parcels left outside; rubber gloves, masks … blah, blah.
      Husband has just gone down with shingles. Presumably he has been attacked from within by herpes zoster, as no child, spotty or otherwise, would be allowed near them. I politely ummed, arhed and made a few helpful suggestions as to local help. The negativity was quite frightening.

      1. When I moved to the new home, I had the temerity to ask one of the congregation for a lift home – I’m about 100 yards from their place. The response was something along the lines of “How can you be so irresponsible? We don’t share our car with anyone.” See these Christians, how they love one another.

          2. Can’t argue. Today was easier. Local retired surgeon, who has antibodies, gave me a lift home in his i3. His Father-in-law, a certain Frank Taylor*, established the housing society which owns my new place.

            *Mr Taylor enlisted his uncle, Jack Woodrow, to establish the company, since he was under age…

      2. Sounds like the kind of conversation I had with Dorset-dwelling schoolteacher friend. Negativity and fear …

  45. That’s me for the day. Do look at the posts I have made about maps etc. If anyone is interested – you know where I am.

    A demain – when we will all be Innocent. And slaughtered.

  46. Brexit Deal Signed: EU Boasts of a ‘Good Deal’ In Their Interest

    Farage: Deal Might Not Be Perfect, But We’ve Made the Break, the Brexit Wars Are Over.

    False sense of security anyone ?

    🎵
    We’ve only just begun.

    1. 327838+ up ticks,
      O2O,
      Er Og I do suppose there are them that will say Englander for you the war is over
      whilst selling the “deal” as the genuine real McCoy a satisfactory article.
      This purely on the word seemingly and without intense study, of a pledging tory.

    2. I agree with you. Farage was far too quick to accept the ‘deal’ without having read it thoroughly.

      I have a feeling Farage has no stomach for any more fights in the future and has given up. If the Brexit Party (or the Reform Party) continues to exist then Farage will have to retire (let us hope he can do it gracefully) and it will have to have someone like Richard Tice as its new leader.

      1. 327828+ up ticks,
        Afternoon R,
        The “nige ” acted as moggy did with Mayday taking the peoples to the wire in a defense / attack mode erring mostly in defence of mayday.
        The “nige” has done precisely the same with johnson.

        The “nige” split the vote after his anti Batten letter input to the treacherous UkIp NeC & his anti
        real UKIP members rant on LBC, knowing that Batten having shown his potential over his leadership year WAS a danger to tory seats.

        As it stands currently the brexit group in the main
        is running, unknowingly by many, a johnson protection campaign under a tory coxswain.

      2. Regarding your first sentence, Rastus, perhaps Farage really was the controlled opposition and he can now heave a sigh of relief that his part is complete with regard to that?

  47. DT Piece: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/politics/day-joe-biden-won-election-breathed-sigh-relief-america/

    The day Joe Biden won the election and I breathed a sigh of relief for America

    As part of our A Day to Remember in a Year Like No Other series, Lionel Shriver recalls the day a nation nearly made a huge mistake – again

    It is heart-warming and encouraging to see that the Telegraph is not following the rest of the MSM herd but is determined to take an firm, independent and impartial line on Trump and Biden.

    1. Why has she a man’s name?

      She might dislike Trump but the reality is he has done many good things for America. I doubt she considers those and instead focuses on the man, not the president.

      2. I hope that Donald will sign into law the legislation creating an independent anti-doping authority for racing to unify all the states to meet the same standards. Too many horses are doped up with bute and lasix and are paying the penalty for masking problems.

    1. When Mongo had an ear infection he also had a bonnet. At one point he got stuck on a corner and simply stopped. He was there for a good few minutes. For a dog that can ‘count’ (he can bring one toy for one pat, two toys for two pats!) getting stuck was quite funny.

      1. My dog had a cyst removed from his front leg and had to wear an Elizabethan collar. He destroyed three, all told, and even managed to get his tongue over and around the biggest one to lick the vet-wrap off!

    1. Of course prices rose at the beginning of 1973. There was a global oil crisis going on. The price of everything rose, and the price of food production grew as much as, or more than, the price of any other sort of production. It had bugger all to do with the EEC.

        1. Because it’s a fact. A real fact, not like the fake facts that get shouted about hereabouts.

          And I studied the agricultural economics of the period so I can vouch for its accuracy.

          Since you were waiting for me to produce a fact, why did you repeat the falsehood? There was no need to do so. The EEC/EU had, and still has, many faults but it is not responsible for all the ills of mankind, had no responsibility at all for the oil crisis… and during the years that we have been members food prices have fallen, manyfold, in real terms; and that’s another factual fact.

          1. OK, I take it back. It was just a fortunate coincidence that the oil crisis masked any attempt to study how EEC membership affected food prices.

          2. Yes, just a coincidence that we stuffed the commonwealth and lost NZ butter and other imports. Nothing to do with the EEC and their rules.

          3. Far from “stuffing” the Commonwealth… we gave their butter and lamb entry into the EEC as well as the UK. NZ and Australia, in particular, have huge tariff free quotas into the EU. They have been beneficiaries, not victims, of our sojourn in the European experiment – and they will continue to benefit as their quotas are not affected by our departure.

          4. We know how membership affected food prices, significant and continued reductions in real terms.

          5. You are so right all the time, there is no need for the rest of us to post comments

            A bit like being in the EU really: no voice

            By the way, we are (mostly) too polite to downvote your drivel)

          6. I was 18 years old in1970 and was aware that our economy was on the skids so to speak. I also remember decimalisation which reduced our spending power considerably. Everything from a pint of ale to a Mars Bar suddenly cost more.

            Anyone remotely contemporary to me and claiming superior understanding of the economics of that time from some student ‘study’ or other is assuming too much.

          4. You have to think about the logic of decimalisation and its connection to inflation. Whereas things went up a halfpenny before (.5/240), the smallest increase now became a new half penny, (ie .5/100). Couple that with “rounding up” in conversions (I don’t recall any rounding down), and you have the beginning of inflationary pressure. I certainly noticed it in the seventies, but not so much in the sixties.

          6. £1 in 1960 is equivalent in purchasing power to about £1.49 in 1970, an increase of £0.49 over 10 years.
            The pound had an average inflation rate of 4.06% per year between 1960 and 1970, producing a cumulative price increase of 48.88%.

      3. hi Jen, Oil crisis started in 1971 with USA leaving the gold standard (messing up the budgets of oil exporting states worldwide), but the OPEC oil embargo was a direct result of the Yom Kippur war in september 1973. The oil price rise affected fertiliser prices, which was particularly disastrous for cereal farmers.

        1. I hope you are wearing a flame-proof suit; not only have you provided an alternative version, you have shortened her name! What sort of flowers do you like? 🙂

        2. So, as you say, throughout the transition through decimalisation to EEC entry and beyond, the oil price was continuously rising. Which is what I said “there was a global oil crisis going on”. It wasn’t a single event but an ongoing one.

          Though you should understand that fertiliser prices were as disastrous for dairy farmers as they were for cereal farmers and increased cereal prices had a huge knock-on into the pig and poultry sectors which are entirely reliant on cereal feed. The dichotomy between “corn” and “horn” is not nearly as clear a divide as it is sometime made out to be.

          MCAs had the effect of making many imports from Europe into the UK cheaper than home grown – I can remember the NFU picketing the import of Irish cattle in the latter half of the ’70s because they were undercutting the home trade. The beginning of the deflationary effect on food prices or our membership… which has continued (with only minor blips) until the present day.

          I have no idea how Brexit will affect food prices, we must await events.

          1. Plenty of cheap beef and chicken in the US and you can guarantee that the Americans will push to have it sold in the UK. Hopefully it might take some of the pressure on our farmers if they see bigger markets elsewhere.

          2. Cheap, badly produced, and subsidised to an extent that makes the CAP look like pocket-money.

            I hope to goodness we can keep it out – because letting it in would be disastrous. The single market and aligned regulation meant that at least we were competing on the same terms with our neighbours across the channel for the last 35 or so years. I very much fear that between planting the wrong trees in the wrong places, rewilding and general neglect British agriculture may die.

            It has been argued here that it is an insignificant contributor to our GDP, but it is a very, very significant contributor to our national larder and our food security. Without it we are entirely at the mercy of others.

        3. My name, as you can see, is Jennifer. I would appreciate it if you would use it, but no flame throwers are employed when things are not done in an inflammatory manner… especially since you have, in fact, verified my comment thought the ignorant appear to see it as an argument.

    1. 327838+ up ticks,
      O2O,
      The light touch Og, that would NOT go down well with the big pharmaceuticals and all returning brown envelopes.

    2. To save Cochrane a few seconds: you cannot kill covid 19 because a virus is not alive.
      You can deteriorate it, destroy it, damage it, but it is not a living organism like a bacterium.

      1. 327838+ up ticks,
        Evening T,
        This was duly noted in one of the reply’s to the original comment.

      2. I looked this up and there seems to be very considerable uncertainty in the scientific community about whether or not viruses are alive.

  56. Evening, all. Bitterly cold here and it seems that the junction between the pipes from the bath and basin in the bathroom is blocked (probably by mortar dropped by the builder). As it overflowed and soaked the walls and the path when I emptied the bath, I expect to have to negotiate a skating rink tomorrow.

    2. Blimey Conway! You must have been awfully naughty in a previous life! What a catalogue of disasters you’re having!
      KBO – we’re right behind you!

    3. “between the pipes from the bath and basin in the bathroom is blocked (probably by mortar dropped by the builder).”

      Yer builder must be quite wee …

      1. He has repointed the whole wall – and is a very messy worker. He has dropped mortar all over the scaffolding, on the ground, on the windows and on the doors, so the possibility that he’s dropped mortar into the hopper is pretty high. I haven’t bothered cleaning anything as he hasn’t finished yet, but I shall have to have a look at this 🙁

          1. Probably not problems caused by a builder! His insurance should cover it, but I want to prevent problems, not have to sort them out afterwards.

          2. The excess probably means it’s easier to get up the scaffold & chip the blessed stuff out of the drain.

        2. We experienced a blocked drain when the builder cleaned off all of his tools in the sink, the drain pipe was on a fairly shallow incline and the cement and other debris just collected over several days.

          Just a few days until new year, let’s just hope that the new year is better for you.

    4. I guess because of current conditions that you cannot request some respite care for your OH, thus giving you a breather to pause a while before you get a reliable bod into correct all the bits and pieces in your house?

      1. In the short term, I need to make sure the hopper doesn’t overflow because the builder (ordinarily I would get him to do it) isn’t coming back until the New Year.

      2. Believe caring i exempt. The volunteers for my mother are free to come & go as necessary.

    5. Another bummer. Messing about on ladders in the rain – deep joy. Be sure to ask Bill how ladders are used, won’t you?

      1. I’ve got scaffolding up. I only have to climb the ladder attached to the planking – famous last words!

  57. Brexit trade deal: What does it mean for fishing?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/46401558

    Given that this is a BBC article (co-authored by Chris Morris!), we could be forgiven for thinking that the arrangements are even worse than described. The shift in %ages over the five-year transition isn’t much e.g. shares of cod (UK first) change from 53:47 to 57:43.

    The issue is complicated by the fact that parts of the UK fishing quota have been sold off by skippers to British-flagged boats owned by foreign companies, mainly based in the EU. In England, for example, more than half the quota is under foreign ownership. That amounts to £160m or 130,000 tonnes a year, according to BBC research.
    The infamous Factortame case comes to mind…

    Also reported on here:
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55456720

    The National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisation (NFFO) accused Mr Johnson of having “bottled it” on fishing quotas to secure only “a fraction of what the UK has a right to under international law”. Barrie Deas, chief executive of the NFFO, said Mr Johnson had “sacrificed” fishing to other priorities, after the subject proved to be an enduring sticking point during negotiations. “Lacking legal, moral or political negotiating leverage on fish, the EU made the whole trade deal contingent on a UK surrender on fisheries,” Mr Deas said.

  59. I look at the exchange rate between the pound and the euro quite regularly as our revenue arises in pounds and our expenditure in done in euros.

    In the EUphoria of a deal being struck Boris Johnson and his sycophants have been assuring us that Britain has got a brilliant deal. Boris Johnson, so they would have us believe, has outsmarted Emanuel Macron, Michel Barnier, Angela Merkin and Ursula von der Leyon.

    If that is the case then you would expect the pound to be a bit stronger against the euro and yet looking at the on-line rates;

    Christmas Eve: 1.11€ to the pound
    Today: 1.09 € to the pound.

    So the pound has weakened against the euro since the ‘brilliant for Britain’ deal was announced!

    Why?

    3. The first team goes away on holidays and the second team is left behind.

      Many professionals will have closed positions after the announcement and, as BT notes, trading will be thin.
      Thus any movement/activity will get a slightly exaggerated response.

    4. Er, the smiles on the faces of the Eurocrats is more telling than the words of Boris. Apparently the UK did not get what we wanted on financial services either.

  60. Good night all.

    Have been looking forward to Black Narcissus & gave it try, but basically it’s a load of crap.

    1. If the Limp Dims have 89 peers to the 257 of Conservative and 177 of Labour, how does this gormless muppet work out that the Limp Dims have “nicked it”?

    3. The size of the second chamber should be reduced to 200 and no more than 20 should have ever served in the House of Commons. Only when an existing peer retires, is sacked or imprisoned and banned should a new lord/lady take his/her place.

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