Thursday 12 November: Why won’t the National Trust face up to its members’ concerns?

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its comments facility (now reinstated, but not as good as ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/11/12/letters-wont-national-trust-face-members-concerns/

745 thoughts on “Thursday 12 November: Why won’t the National Trust face up to its members’ concerns?”

  5. Hungarian government mounts new assault on LGBT rights, 11 november 2020.

    The proposed constitutional amendment, submitted to parliament by the justice minister, Judit Varga, late on Tuesday, is the latest assault on LGBT rights in the country, where legal recognition for gender changes was ended in May.

    “Hungary protects children’s right to identify as the sex they were born with, and ensures their upbringing based on our national self-identification and Christian culture,” the amendment states. The constitution already stipulates that marriage must be between a man and a woman, but the amendment says that in a parent-child relationship “the mother is a woman and the father is a man”.

    The amendment would ensure that only heterosexual married couples can adopt children. Single people could gain exemptions by special ministerial permission.

    Morning everyone. That’s the sort of “assault” I would like to see here in the UK!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/nov/11/hungarian-government-mounts-new-assault-on-lgbt-rights

    1. Western wokish governments will not like the phrase “special ministerial permission” and (hypocritically) will fail to acknowledge that “we often use that too”.

    1. Boris Johnson’s adviser Lee Cain quits Downing Street role after revolt by Carrie Symonds. 12 November 2020.

      Boris Johnson was trying to prevent an exodus of Downing Street staff on Wednesday night after a key aide resigned following a public power struggle with the Prime Minister’s fiancée Carrie Symonds.

      Dominic Cummings, Mr Johnson’s most senior adviser, was understood to be considering his position following the departure of his former Vote Leave ally Lee Cain as Mr Johnson’s director of communications.

      Mr Cain’s resignation prompted frantic late night scenes in No 10 as staff were tasked with ringing colleagues to gauge how many of them might quit if Mr Cummings followed Mr Cain out of the door.

      She was always a Soros mole!

      https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/11/11/lee-cain-resigns-boris-johnsons-director-communications/

      1. But, but, but, Minty… I always thought you said that the world going mad was because of Goldfinger and Oddjob. Are you now saying it was all because of Pussy Galore?!?!?

        :-))

  7. Delighted to learn that the Fataturks rabid greeniac girlfriend,the one with his bollocks in her handbag now runs the country………….
    What could possibly go wrong,,,,,,

  9. Nicked

    “I am beginning to understand what it was like behind the Iron Curtain.
    You get to know what’s happening, not by what you hear and read on the
    MSM, but sometimes by what you don’t hear.
    For instance, when you
    hear much less about the wonders of St. Joe, and what wonders he will
    perform, you know the ballot scandal is becoming a real problem. It’s
    not actually mentioned, but it affects the way other news is presented.
    Yes, just as in Russia, East Germany etc. you learn to read between the lines.”
    Thanks Wreksit,this is a truth well acknowledged here on NoTTL for years.
    Biden,Vaccine,Greeniacs we are experts at delving behind the scenes,once it would have been samizdat and shortwave radio, now it’s the net in all its forms

    1. Russia’s 1,516ft tall Lakhta Center – the tallest building in Europe – is named skyscraper of the year for its dynamic ‘blazing flame’ shape and energy efficiency. 11 November 2020.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/809b8ee73086761ef548f3c39f746b4b2d1cb561a1afef64b651597b7d0bf77d.png

      >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

      Ex British Army officer James Le Mesurier DID kill himself: Widow tells of relentless Russia smear campaign before White Helmets chief threw himself off Istanbul flat balcony. 11 November 2020.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2e94a6d2be7e75a40c94c88176a950392a6b64f9a85c47850e6dd8699ef9d188.png

      Go figure!

    1. Amazing! Not a peep about this from MSM. Presumably it would have been wall-to-wall had situation been reversed with Biden making similar allegations about a Trump victory.

  11. Black Turkeys Matter…

    SIR – I was intrigued to read that Norfolk black turkeys nearly became extinct in the Sixties.

    My grandfather, Martin Foulger, and his drovers used to walk the turkeys down from Banham in Norfolk to the markets in east London, taking three days.

    He became so well known in the capital that he was asked to walk with the largest one across the stage of the Hackney Empire.

    Helen Woolston
    Wembley, Middlesex

    1. “Singleton’s Pluck” is a film about a farmer walking his geese 100 miles by road to London for slaughter. It is entertaining and worth a watch.

      1. Go’morgon, Paul.

        Actually I had curry last night & enjoyed the leftovers cold even more for breakfast.

        2. Good Morning all from a fresh but bright Derbyshire!
          When I worked at Eastleigh loco works I used to do an occasional curry for myself and take the cold leftovers into work as sandwiches, much to the consternation of my workmates.

  13. Lockdown laws leave no place for common sense or individual judgment. 12 November 2020.

    What are the broader lessons to be learnt from the case of Ylenia Angeli? Last week Ms Angeli fell foul of the Government’s guidelines for care homes during the Covid-19 epidemic. These guidelines are not legally binding, but in practice care homes must and do observe them.

    Old people are being locked in and deprived of the support of their friends and families. Outside contact, when it is allowed at all, takes place through closed windows or Perspex screens in conditions resembling prison visiting rooms. Ms Angeli’s 97-year-old mother has dementia and lives in a care home under this regime.

    Ms Angeli hugged her mother in the entrance hall of the care home and then tried to take her back to her own home to care for her herself. For this she was arrested for assault by the police and taken away, while her mother was returned to the care home as if she was a piece of baggage.
    Downing Street was sufficiently embarrassed to put out a statement, and a junior minister called Helen Whately was wheeled on to make some robotic comments about how distressing but necessary it all was. Distressing it certainly was. But what kind of society have we become where such a thing is thought necessary?

    It is important to understand that this incident was not a freak occurrence. It is the logical consequence of government policies. It follows from two features that have characterised those policies from the start. The first is that they are based on top-down commands supported by legal coercion. The second is that stopping people getting Covid-19 is assumed to matter more than anything else: more than any other health issue, more than ordinary freedoms, more than common humanity.

    Ms Angeli’s problem is just one example of a broader attitude exemplified by Chris Whitty’s remarkable evidence to the House of Commons Science and Technology Committee last week. He described the Government’s countermeasures as “economically and socially destructive” but necessary because there was nothing better if one was to combat Covid-19. Implicit in this statement is that combating Covid-19 is all that counts. He did not seem to have any conception that there is a level of economic and social destruction which is worse than Covid-19. We reached that level long ago.

    The problem about coercion is that law, like all top-down systems, works in broad predefined categories. Unlike voluntary systems, it leaves no place for common sense or individual judgment. Yet old people are not a single undifferentiated mass any more than young ones are. They are individuals, with their own vulnerabilities, their own needs, and their own support networks. Their problems are better and more sensitively handled by people who love them than by decrees issuing from Whitehall. This is an area in which the state has exceeded its competence, both practically and morally.

    And what of the constant mantra that destruction and inhumanity are justified by the need to combat the virus? This idea is the foundation of all that the Government has done. But it is absurd, especially in the case of old people like Ms Angeli’s mother. The average age at which people die with Covid-19 is 82.4 years. These are people at the end of their lives. The quality of the few months left to them matters much more than the quantity.

    The admirable work of the Alzheimer’s Society has shown how fast people with Alzheimer’s and dementia deteriorate when they are deprived of social and family support. I have seen this in my own family. These two related conditions are the biggest causes of death in the UK. They kill many more people than Covid-19, which is not even in the top 10 causes of death.

    Yet the terrible reality is that for the Government deaths from dementia and Alzheimer’s do not really matter. This is all driven by fear of political fallout. Cases like Ms Angeli’s have become just another issue of public relations management. Ministers care more about deaths from Covid-19 because they have a bigger media profile and the Government is more likely to be blamed for them. That is the level to which we have sunk.

    I don’t have much time for Judges who are usually preening lackeys and hypocrites but Sumption is an exception. He clearly possesses all the finer points of Perception and Patriotism.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/11/11/lockdown-laws-leave-forno-place-common-sense-individual-judgment/

  14. News from the Colchester front. So glad to see our council tax used in such a productive manner.

    “Hi Anne,

    Colchester council received a single complaint that Sainsbury’s Clothing area was still trading non essentials. Environmental Health came in between 3 and 4pm today and have shut down the entire Tu area. A lot of ladies are very unhappy they cannot get their bits and pieces. My area is still open at the moment but not sure for how long.”

    1. Good to see that there’s at least one person in Colchester who is prepared to perform their civic duty without fear or favour.😒

      Morning, Anne.

    2. ‘Morning, Anne, one can’t help wondering if the NT shops are still trading in non-essentials…

  15. Morning all

    SIR – Tim Stanley is unfair to Richard Nixon when he supposes that he would have reacted like Donald Trump to defeat in a presidential election.

    In 1960, having lost to John F Kennedy by the slenderest of margins, Nixon rebuffed any idea of challenging the result.

    “I could think of no worse example for the nations abroad who for the first time were trying to put free elections into effect,” he wrote, “than that of the United States wrangling over the results of our presidential election and even suggesting that the presidency itself could be stolen by thieving at the ballot box.”

    Jack Winder

    Alcester, Warwickshire

  16. SIR – After enjoying the generosity of Tobias Rustat for over 300 years, the Master and Fellows of Jesus College, Cambridge, have decided to remove his memorial from the college chapel (report, November 7). He will, however, continue to pay for the gourmet food and fine wines apparently acceptable when presented as the “summer feast” rather than the Rustat feast.

    They thus parade their tender consciences and virtue-signalling at no detriment to themselves. Their gesture would be real rather than merely hypocritical if they were to divest themselves of his benefaction and give the proceeds to the descendants of those deemed to have been exploited in the accumulation of the wealth bequeathed to the college.

    His Honour Dr Colin Kolbert

    Cambridge

      1. I didn’t know that the Isle of Wight had specialist hypocrites. Peddy, if you must use TLAs (Three Letter Acronyms) please do the non-jargonists a favour by deciphering them at first use.

      2. So you’re saying, Peddy, (© Cathy Newman) that the Master and all the Fellows of Jesus College, Cambridge were born in (on?) the Isle of Wight?

        :-))

        Good morning, btw.

    2. Precisely why I didn’t want to go to Cambridge. Pretentious pontificators all, with poor teaching, only there to meet the “right” people.

        1. If there is no contrast, how can you tell the difference? Yin & Yang…
          Let’s put it this way, about 50% of those I met from Cambridge fit that description – with attitude to match.

          1. Fair enough. I went to a college which wasn’t snobby or stuffed with the Right People (as evidenced by my presence!). And in the course of my studies I was lucky enough to be tutored by an extraordinary mind. So that for me was worth a lot.

            I won’t say it’s perfect – I met my fair share of unwarrantedly arrogant dickheads, and fought hard with some tutors about ticking boxes being rewarded more highly than original thought – but wanted to at least defend my corner, which I thought you’d generalised. No harm done.

          2. I’m in a bad mood (fit to throw stuff at the wall, TBH), so I’m afraid I wasn’t properly precise with my wording.
            I was therefore insulting due to my carelessness.
            Apologies.

  17. Donald Trump has lost the election – yet Trumpland is here to stay. 12 November 2020.

    Perhaps one day Donald Trump will be dragged out of the Oval Office, his tiny fingernails still dug deep into that fat oak desk. But Trumpland, the country that ignored the politicians and the pollsters and the pundits and gave him the White House in 2016, will outlast him; just as it emerged before he even thought of becoming a candidate. And for as long as it is here it will warp politics and destabilise the US.

    This would be an exceptional article in any newspaper and even more so in the Guardian. Trump of course, is simply an expression of the views of vast numbers of Americans (and others) who have been betrayed by the Elites. Even if he does go away it will only be temporary. He or his successor must rise again. It is politically inevitable.

    In the Roman Republic of which the United States is so close a copy the populist reformer Tiberius Gracchus attempted to curb the excesses of the Elites which led to his eventual assassination. His brother attempting the same was similarly served but murder rarely succeeds against political movement and this led to the rise of Caesar and the end of the Republic itself. So it will be in the United States!

    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/12/donald-trump-poor-white-americans-despair-leader

  18. Good morning all. Late on parade – a bit under the weather. Going back to bed.

    Praise be – Simon Armitage has – at last – written a good poem. Why on earth did the congregation not stand as the Union Flag was carried from the Tomb to the High Altar? I cannot imagine how the so—-called heads of the armed forces could have had such a lapse.

    TTFN

    2. Good morning Bill.

      Sorry you are below par. Are your kittens cuddled up with you?

      We thought the service was weak and mechanical , had no strength of purpose , and the Arch bish sounded pathetic.

    3. Just what I did after breakfast yesterday, Bill. Hope a few extra hours of sleep do the trick for you.

    4. ‘Morning, Bill, I cannot remember who wrote this but it generally applies:

      On the Appointment of Simon Armitage as Poet Laureate

      A Yorkshire Laureate poet
      With a visage quite deranged.
      Thinks he has to shew it –
      His passion for the climate’s changed.

      Lauded by the BBC,
      Elevated beyond his rank;
      It’s plain for all to see
      His mind, like his verse is blank.

    2. Maybe time for this as we’re being invaded by sea, again:

      Drake’s Drum

      DRAKE he’s in his hammock an’ a thousand mile away,
      (Capten, art tha sleepin’ there below?)
      Slung atween the round shot in Nombre Dios Bay,
      An’ dreamin’ arl the time o’ Plymouth Hoe.
      Yarnder lumes the island, yarnder lie the ships,
      Wi’ sailor lads a-dancin’ heel-an’-toe,
      An’ the shore-lights flashin’, an’ the night-tide dashin’
      He sees et arl so plainly as he saw et long ago.

      Drake he was a Devon man, an’ ruled the Devon seas,
      (Capten, art tha sleepin’ there below?),
      Rovin’ tho’ his death fell, he went wi’ heart at ease,
      An’ dreamin’ arl the time o’ Plymouth Hoe,
      “Take my drum to England, hang et by the shore,
      Strike et when your powder’s runnin’ low;
      If the Dons sight Devon, I’ll quit the port o’ Heaven,
      An’ drum them up the Channel as we drummed them long ago.”

      Drake he’s in his hammock till the great Armadas come,
      (Capten, art tha sleepin’ there below?),
      Slung atween the round shot, listenin’ for the drum,
      An’ dreamin’ arl the time o’ Plymouth Hoe.
      Call him on the deep sea, call him up the Sound,
      Call him when ye sail to meet the foe;
      Where the old trade’s plyin’ an’ the old flag flyin’,
      They shall find him, ware an’ wakin’, as they found him long ago.

      Henry Newbolt. 1862-1938

      A drum said to have been in the possession of Sir Francis Drake and carried by him on board his ships to beat the crews to quarters and now at Buckland Abbey, Devon, Drake’s old home. According to legend, the drum gives a drumbeat whenever England is in danger of invasion from the sea. Doubts have been cast on its authenticity. It is the subject of a famous poem of the same name by Sir Henry Newbolt (1862–1938). First published in the St James’s Gazette in 1897, this was later set to music by Ralph Vaughan Williams.

      1. We had an anthology of poems at prep school and we had to learn a poem each week. Alfred Noyes, John Masefield, Rudyard Kipling, Rupert Brooke and Henry Newbolt (to name a few) featured strongly is this anthology.

        Of course some modern educationalists think that having to learn anything is bad for children and that those who try and make them do so are abusive.

      2. 326334+up ticks,
        Morning NtN,
        That went down well with me second pint of tea.
        Has anybody checked if it has been given a soundproof lagging
        as it should be sending out a continuing resounding drum roll.

  23. “Covid in Scotland: Testing plan to allow students home for Christmas”
    Students who fail the test will be placed under house arrest (self isolation). Nothing said in respect of students who refuse the test. We have become a barbarian totalitarian state, and citizens have become proles.

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-54891434

    1. 326334+ up ticks,
      Morning HP,
      Surely for years we have witnessed the route these governance party’s have been taking so what we are currently witnessing
      has been, with the electorates consent via the polling booth.

      Treachery has been plain to see especially since the major era, consolidated by the wretch cameron & reinforced with klaxons blaring by super trech may.
      Now seemingly being given a final
      polish ( off) by johnson.

  24. Just attempted to attach a new electric radiator to the (pine-clad) wall.
    Of the 4 screws provided, one has no slot in the head.
    The rest all rounded the head off, even though I am using the correct type and size of screwdriver.
    So, I can’t even get it mounted, let alone switched on! But then, if the screws are such shit quality, I’m not sure that I want to switch it on – if the rest is the same, then it’ll likely burn the house down during the night.
    Reckon I’ll bin the bastard.

      1. ‘Morning, Eddy, screwfix are at pains to point out that they’re not a dating agency.

        Boom, boom.

      2. I rarely go shopping – that’s Mrs HJ’s department – but I can always find an excuse for a visit to Spewfix. (Our 8 year-old grandson regards it as his favourite shop, too. Can’t imagine where he gets that from.)

        1. The Screwfix technical guys are amazing. Their HQ is absolutely marvellous. Lovely guys, miss them all!

    3. What you need is a hammer!

      A hammer is the perfect tool to attach screws to a wall. I went wrong once, but that was because my hammer wasn’t big enough.

      1. Yes. Plenty.
        But I don’t have a box of odd bits to build a heater that I have confidence will not incinerate my house.
        EDIT: Smelling mustoke.

      1. Isn’t everything these days?
        Communications networks, nuclear power plants, voting machines…
        Morning, Tom.

        2. My kitchen knives (not expensive) were all made in Switzerland. My saucepans were made in England… but they are quite a few years old and the company now states “designed in England” and is rather coy about manufacture.

          We do, however, largely have ourselves to blame. If we want cheap (and 99% of us do) then that’s the price we have to pay for it.

          1. Our pans, from IKEA, were made in Finland. No non-stick lining, it’s almost impossible to get anything to stick to them.

          2. Mine were from the local kitchen-ware shop (it’s a good one with a wide range of qualities and prices) about 15 years ago. They were made by Judge which is an English firm. They are stainless steel and though, like yours, they are not “non-stick” they are not very sticky either.

            What I really need to do now is replace the hob. I changed the oven a while ago when the old one stopped working, but the hob is more than 25 years old. I think it will last until spring, but not much longer.

          3. We love induction. Nice flat glass plate that’s easy to clean; no wasted energy heating up elements; instant controllability like gas, but much more power. Timers, doesn’t leak, smell, no huge iron frames to clean and burner wells to fill with burned-on milk…

          4. I’m looking at ceramics which are not induction. Still a flat glass plate with touch controls but more within the budget and no need to buy new cookware.

            Gas wouldn’t be an option as there is no gas main here… I currently have an electric hob with old fashioned black rings which take ages to heat up and are not very flexible once hot.

            Got to do a bit more studying before I make a final decision.

          6. Will my old aluminium berry-pan work on it? It was my great-granny’s so it’s probably over 100…

            As I say, I haven’t done my homework yet.

  26. Good morning all.

    It certainly appears that Boris should have kept Wilfred but put Carrie up for adoption.

    1. Good morning Issy,

      He has made his bed , and look what has happened .

      He just cannot remain zipped up.
      He is an absolute philanderer, and lump of hot air ..

      That Carrie woman has done to him exactly what the Megain did to Harry ..Now in the grip of coercive mental control.

      2. She is leading him by his c**k and shows no sign of letting go. And please refrain from any reference to Ginge and Whinge…I’m still seeking counselling for their repulsive exploitation of Armistice Day, posing for a photo-op in an empty overseas war cemetery.

      3. These spouses/partners need to wind their necks in an adopt the supportive dignified role as per Denis Thatcher.

    1. I love that one , just their soothing voices, I nearly typed vices .
      The letters on my keyboard have vanished , Moh says I clatter too loudly, huh, what on earth is he on about.

      Enjoy your shopping expedition , don’t go anywhere too naff, it can be a very scary experience.

        1. That is how Moh feels every morning , empty golf course and driving range . He practises his swings in the garden, garden too soggy for putting sadly.

          It is similar to depriving someone with a sweet tooth of chocolate !

          Boris has made a huge mistake.

          1. I wouldn’t actually blame Boros TB his looney advisers would have pushed this forward.
            And today the golf starts in the US at Augusta, i can’t find any means of watching any of it. I suppose the BBC will pay for a few tee shots and puts and show them late in the evening.

    1. Good morning, P-T.

      Here’s Hilaire Belloc’s advice on how to treat the Frog:

      Be kind and tender to the Frog,
      And do not call him names,
      As ‘Slimy skin,’ or ‘Polly-wog,’
      Or likewise ‘Ugly James,’
      Or ‘Gape-a-grin,’ or ‘Toad-gone-wrong,’
      Or ‘Billy Bandy-knees’:
      The Frog is justly sensitive
      To epithets like these.
      No animal will more repay
      A treatment kind and fair;
      At least so lonely people say
      Who keep a frog (and, by the way,
      They are extremely rare).

      1. I knew a little frog, I loved him very much
        When he went a-missing it was an awful wrench
        I hope he went a-wooing and found his favourite lunch

        I hope he wasn’t lost and eaten by the French!

        Best I can do in 5mins….! Hi Rastus

        1. I once found a Bufo viridis,
          a green and lovely toad,
          in the expansive garden,
          of the pub across the road.

          True, an escapee from the next door mail order pet shop, and I kept him for 10 years. A false coral snake also turned up in the garden and D Attenborough was called to identify it. Credit where it’s due he knew it was harmless because of its colour bands’ order.

  31. Nicola Lawson – you sound just like one of those pretentious art critics with your meaningless drivel

    1. And the way they all wave their hands and arms around…..just trying to make a splash.
      The basic aspect about art is, you either like it or you don’t. The more (experts) people try to convince you of it’s importance quite often the less you might appreciate it.

      1. I often don’t like it, but can appreciate the skill involved in making it. Such as fine marquetry – couldn’t have it in the house, but someone spent a lot of time, skill & effort in making it.

        1. I’ve worked in a few arts and craft houses in my area. Superb statements of craft ability. Mainly unappreciated, or taken for granted.

    2. Good morning Spikey

      Please would you provide a link – I have no idea who Nicola Lawson is.

      1. It’s in the letters Richard, I have no way of putting in a link – I can’t even upload a photo of the letter

  32. 326334+ up ticks,
    Is this odious issue being overseen by the governance party
    as is the Dover potential troop movement issue with eyes tight shut ?
    Is this just concerning south yorkshire police or nationwide ?
    Why do these governance party’s oversee more potential
    paedophiles entry via Dover ?
    Why do the electorate STILL support mass uncontrolled immigration governance party’s ?

    A police watchdog has upheld a complaint by a grooming gang victim against South Yorkshire Police that the force knew for years that child rapist Arshid Hussain was targeting girls in foster care and other “vulnerable young women” caught up in the widespread Rotherham grooming gang scandal.
    WHY,WHY, WHY.

      1. 326334+up ticks,
        Morning PT,
        Of course I know why, what I cannot figure out is why these governance party’s still find support after decades of them treating the peoples with utter
        contempt,lies ,deceit,& treachery.

    2. They way things are going in our once well organised and respected Isles, we are being led into a very dark cul-de-sac and will eventually be backed against a brick wall with no escape. Already i read today that these illegal people, who have absolutely no right whatsoever to be in the UK. Are now demanding homes and not ex army barracks. Remembering that a number of our ex services personnel are living on the streets of our towns and cities and would probably enjoy the luxury of a safe sheltered place to be, such as an ex army camp. Especially the one in west Wales near Tenby. WHY, WHY, WHY, there is no apparent or obvious reason for any of this, unless it is part of the overall ‘agreement’ with the EU over Brexit.

      1. Regarding the illegals invasion to the UK (from the BBC text news the other day ) – ” Clandestine Channel Threat Commander Dan O’Mahoney said the criminals behind the crossings were breaking the law and UK authorities were “relentlessly” going after those responsible, he said.

        1. That’ll be the day Walter. The UK authorities are too busy policing the movement of the UK population over lock down. Meanwhile they are letting in nay body who arrives here with no ID or any other form of checks. I suspect health checks are in line, but who is having to pay for all this ?

          1. Who is paying? Obviously WE are. Culturally, Socially, Financially and any other “????ally”. Why would they have ANY intention of working here when they get a ( for them ) relatively massive rise in living standards – for having arrived here, legally or not? Housed, cash, Healthcare with translators, full infrastructure country, schooling for umpteen kids that will inevitably arrive etc etc. Many will have no education, and not want any. Many will be criminals escaping punishment in their own land and will continue to commit crime here, knowing they will NEVER be deported. Hell is being blatantly forced on us, WE are being forced through taxes to pay for it all . . . . and our extermination is the clear end result.

      2. 326334+ up ticks.
        Morning RE,
        My point is why are peoples still
        supporting mass uncontrolled immigration party’s ongoing since the political rodent lifted the latch, we had then indigenous on the waiting list while foreign elements were housed.
        The current governance political scene finds support even when
        army personnel live in danger of being incarcerated for services rendered in protecting the country & nurses are in danger of being incarcerated for protecting the family.
        All the while vulnerable children
        are the playthings of paedophiles whilst governance employees close their eyes.

      3. Closed camps, electrified barbed wire, preferably on St Kilda. Asylum requests by video screen (not Chinese Zoom). If denied, next plane out.

  33. TBF this is a pretty quick and positive response from my MP’s office

    Being honest I’m shocked and very pleasantly surprised……….

    Thank you very much for your email. Mr Lord has been made aware of your concerns and has asked me to respond on his behalf.

    I was sorry to read the contents of your letter. Mr Lord would be happy
    to make representations to the DWP on your behalf, but first, we would
    ask that you provide our office with a very
    clear ‘ready-made’ initial draft of exactly what you would want us to
    send. We would then share this directly with DWP officials, together
    with a supportive note of our own.

    Thank you once again for taking the time to contact Mr Lord with your concerns.

    With best wishes.

    Kind regards,

    Nick
    Thanks to Willum for suggesting this

    1. And with the upmost sincerity i wish the very best of luck with that RR. i had a long arduous battle those people a few years ago, i still have the stack of paperwork most of it meant absolutely nothing to me. I got absolutely nowhere.
      My then MP was Peter Lilley, the ex pensions secretary.

    3. It’s somehow reassuring to discover that there are places and politicians even more deranged than they are here!

    4. I approve of unveiling a statue of a dog. I took Mongo to visit Botswain’s grave. He didn’t really get it but he was a good boy all the same.

      However, what really seals how bonking nuts that fellow is is having a name so long you’d need 8 pages just to write to him.

      2. When I went to the Battle of Britain memorial at Capel-le-Ferne, my dog wasn’t too sure about Bob, the Battle of Britain dog (a statue representing the pets and mascots of the pilots and squadrons) the first time. On subsequent visits, he ignored him.

    1. That’s a prototype Mk1 chainsaw you are looking at. We are currently on the Mk 29, a thoroughly different beast.

        2. Paddy applied for a job as a lumberjack. The foreman said OK provided Paddy could take down 100 trees a day. Sure said Paddy, give me my saw and I’ll set to. Paddy went to the tree plot and started to saw down the tree, back and forth, back and forth sweat building on his body. Eventually he managed 89 trees. Not good enough said the foreman, the quota is 100, but I’ll give you another day to see if you can do it. Next day Paddy went out and at the end of the day, dishevelled, muscles aching, covered in sweat he managed 95. Sorry said the foreman, but you haven’t made the grade. Despondent, Paddy started off home. Chuck, the Canadian lumberjack saw Paddy and said what’s up? Paddy explained. Chuck said that’s a shame, but come for a beer anyway. I’ll show you how I do it, I usually average 120 trees a day. Let’s see if we can get you your job back. That’d be great said Paddy, how on earth do you manage 120 trees a day? First said Chuck, make sure your saw is sharp, then once you start your chain saw like this, buuzzzzzzzz……….

    2. That’s a prototype Mk1 chainsaw you are looking at. We are currently on the Mk 29, a thoroughly different beast.

        2. I wish there was an easy way of sharpening saws. I usually resort to buying a new one when an old one gets too blunt.

          3. One of the best carpenters I knew years ago was in an unhappy marriage. Every evening he would spend an hour or more sharpening his Disston panel saw in order to avoid arguing with her.

            I doubt many folk nowadays would be able to handle my 3ppi rip saw and young chaps would resort to electrical saws. In skilful hands electrical tools are fine.

            Likewise few if any would have the files and setting tools and knowledge to be able to sharpen a traditional saw. The throwaway Swedish saws thus hold sway.

          5. That’s what most carpenters did Richard they were quite cheap and probably cheaper than spending the time sharpening them. There are probably many ‘Trades men’ who wouldn’t have a clue how to sharpen a handsaw.

    1. Having been in the construction building trade from apprentice joiner to contracts manager and business owner, all my working life i have to laugh at the comedy of many errors played out by those who ‘project manage’ their home extensions and other building work.
      One lady in a TV show was seen to be bossing her eastern European decorators around each time she made her many visits to the large London flat.
      When they finished the job, she couldn’t get rid of them. It took her over three months to get them out.
      Another was a solicitor was having a new home built on a plot next to his existing home, all was going well until he thought he step in with project managing the work. One day half way through the fitting of the new windows he was badgering the carpenter to get a move on and did he need a hand. The solicitor then grabbed the mans level and declared that the new it must have been1.8 mtrs wide, timber window he had just fitted was 2mm out of level !! In front of the camera, the guy grabbed his tools jumped into his truck and drove off.
      I could write a book about many other incidents such as these.

        1. I had every room and ceiling repainted last year. He also made all the small dints in the plaster vanish. I arranged it so i was away at the time. Well worth the money.

          1. Sometimes things are done right. We lived in a flat and I looked at repapering the hall. It was a big hall with thirteen doors. A trial scratch revealed that there were at least six layers of paper, and at least one of them was varnished. I realised that some kind of machine and expertise were required. I had neither.
            I could have hired a steam machine, but these things frighten me, (as did the espresso machine in my restaurant, but that’s not important right now). This was back in the time when there were free local papers with classified ads. I picked one for decorators and called them in.
            Early on the appointed day two blokes arrived with their steamers and stuff. The Sultana, myself and the four kids went out for the day, leaving them to it..
            When we came back it was all done. Stripped neatly back to bare plaster and the paper that had been removed was tied up in black bags. No fuss and no mess. All for a very, very reasonable sum.
            What a pleasure it is when things go right.

          2. Sometimes things work well.

            I spent a month in Montpellier with a friend who had family there. We were invited to give a price for a painting/varnishing job which also had many doors needing work.

            Before being able to suggest a price we were invited to an orgy at the apartment complex. Free use of the pool and sauna.

            Most of the guests were IBM British working in France.

            I enjoyed the canapes.

      2. After watching the builder managed the trades as they built our house, I cannot imagine taking on that role myself. If taking on just one project, how could you ever persuade the contractors to schedule their part of the job at the correct time to suit your schedule.

        I did decide to do the painting rather than pay the builder to do that easy task. One Friday afternoon, he dropped of four or five fifty litre buckets of undercoat and told me that to stay on schedule, I had to complete two coats on all walls and ceilings before Monday morning. The builder took care of the top coats.

        1. I did a big rebuild refurb job for some one fairly local, carpentry only. They asked me if i knew any good plasterers which i did. They came and started the inside when things were ready. But his awful wife took over the running of the job. Nobody like her attitude, including the plasterers who she would ring at 4 pm expecting them to turn up the next morning. Not possible if they were in the middle of another job. She ‘sacked’ them. When the exterior sand and cement rendering had to be done at the rear of the house, having got rid of the really good tradesmen i knew. She used four eastern European guys they splashed render all over the brand new and huge glass doors and windows and ruined the glass trying to remove the mess leaving many massive scratches. I think it cost in excess of 2,000 pounds to replace the double glazed windows.
          When she tried to get hold of them on their mobile number she never had a answer. And that wasn’t the only problems she caused by her superior building knowledge.

      3. My only query about builders and so on that I’ve hired is despite how scrupulous they are, despite their intent, it is never good enough for me.

        Simply put, the stable door needed replacing – the chap came along, put it in and ran out of screws, so didn’t bother with one of them. One screw is bent and in at a stupid angle. The door closes, but it’s got a 14mm (I’m sad, I measured it with lidar) on one side.

        For most, the door closes. For me, I see the duff screws and the gap. Was it cost? Was he busy? If he’d said ‘Look, I need more screws and the ones I have aren’t really right for this wood, so I want to take that out and put this in. It’ll take me another day and another £100. Fine. I’d rather pay more for good work.

        1. When we get work donw, I make it clear at the quotation stage taht what I want is a) a VAT invoiced, and b) a good job. I’m willing to pay for a good job not a bodge – definition of good being, when you look at it, you get a feeling of pleasure and say “That’s a Good Job”. It means a bit of attention to detail – example, our bathroom was retiled about 15 years ago. Nicely done, but the vertical grout lines don’t meet the floor grout lines (we matched tile sizes specifically), and the grout lines for the small tiles around the floor drain don’t meet the main floor tiles lines (ditto). Every morning, when I sit on the loo, I get a Grr! moment when I see them…

        2. We’ve never had a strict set of employment rules in the UK unfortunately this has resulted in many bodgers out and about.
          I can remember a chap who was sent to a new site of 40 houses where i was the working foreman, my self and four other carpenters were setting the floor joist in place, setting up the roof trusses, all first fix in side and out. Latterly second fix and finals. We all worked on a set price where most of us were earning at least twice the going rate. This guy was absolutely hopeless. It wasn’t the first time i had to have a word and move him on. As i did many times later with other hopeless cases. Except two apprentices.
          When my wife and i went to Oz although i had my apprenticeship papers and references i still had yo be registered to be able to work. And only second fix (skirtings architrave doors locks and finishings) it was because at the state government interview, i didn’t know a couple of metric roofing timber sizes so i had to wait and attend evening (piece of cake) classes to qualify. it’s a good method to keep people who don’t actually know what they are doing, out of the way. Unfortunately in the UK there are so many power tools now that anyone can and do call them selves trades men. Plumbers have to be qualified, electricians do, you now have to have a certificate to fit windows and external doors something i was doing before most of the fitters were born. Plastering and brick laying are two skills that people can’t bodge up, a lack of skill is too obvious. Public liability insurance is now a must I’m quite sure a lot of ‘trades’ don’t bother with it.
          All i can say is, you were a bit unfortunate any decent tradie worth their salt would have had plenty of spare screws.

      4. It is the same in my work as a chartered architect. Anyone and everyone who ever bought a pot of paint from Farrow & Ball considers themselves a designer.

        Skilled tradesmen have always appreciated the drawings and specifications I provide. I have always taken the view that the better the information, the better the end product. It is my professional duty to be diligent, to meet my client’s aspirations and to enable the builder and tradesmen to make a profit.

        1. I know what you mean. If you have ever watched Homes Under The Hammer, like i have you will have noticed some of the dreadful ‘workmanship’ after the refurbs. I even noticed a house where they had the doors on upside down. Many times the hinges are not in the standard 6 inches down from the top and 9 inches up from the bottom positions.
          Many years ago my business partner and i fitted a new kitchen for an architect. He was so impressed with our workmanship he asked us to fit new doors all round. It was in the days before ‘Phillips’ screws were so popular. I lined up all the brass screw slots, he was very impressed again.

          1. I would use a steel screw, remove it and drive an identical slotted brass screw into the butt. If the door was oak I would dip the thread in Vaseline.

          2. I always had and still do, an old wax candle in my tool box to rub the threads on, grease and Vaseline can seep out. Then you’re in trouble.
            I spent three years making stair cases during my apprenticeship, we use to set up the stairs in the workshop and fit hard wood hand rails and the newel posts. I loved that. After i left i had a job with Camden council working on flats and house near Euston station. It was the first time i had fitted a stair case on site. I remember going back to Harrow where i had worked to pick up the rest of my tools and showing the guys i worked with how much i had earned on a collective bonus scheme for the initial week. over 30 pounds in 1968, more than twice that of the senior bench joiners.

      2. With some quite nasty side effects. And, sadly, it really doesn’t make a lot of difference in a case of SARS-CoV-2 unless the case is so mild that recovery is swift and inevitable anyway. It doesn’t, despite random claims to the contrary on the internet, act as a prophylactic. Hardly surprising since malaria and SARS-CoV-2 have almost nothing in common.

    1. SIR – The logistics and staff required to provide millions of vaccinations quickly look daunting.

      We retired doctors, nurses and 
other clinicians have all given thousands of vaccinations over the course of our working lives. Personally, I would be happy to volunteer my time unpaid.

      The only difficulty is the need to be indemnified against the very small chance of doing harm. We no longer have any professional insurance.

      Dr David Wise

      Wantage, Oxfordshire

      2. You’re off the Register as well, David. Think of all the CPD you’ll have to catch up with to get back on it.

  40. Make a DIFFERENCE to people’s lives: Why training to teach could be the ideal start – or switch – to a super rewarding career. UK Government. 11 November 2020.

    After a challenging year, many of us are keen to do something more meaningful day-to-day.

    With thousands of public sector roles, training to teach could be the ideal start – or switch – to a thoroughly rewarding career.

    Yes folks if there are no vacancies for Torpedo Pilots or Mine Removal experts why not become a teacher?

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8934075/Make-DIFFERENCE-training-teach-start-switch-rewarding-career.html

    1. On the tv ad breaks watch for the one from the NHS, where the non-white ( obviously ) person in a nurses outfit says that flu kills about 11000 a year – then says “This isn’t a normal year” – but – doesn’t say if this years numbers are up or down. Are they scared of someone saying the deaths to flu are down, because every death is being automatically attributed to Covid 19? purely to ramp up Project Fear ? . . Very craftily not lying, just being very careful in what they DO say.
      I always try to notice what they deliberately avoid saying, while they hope that the people they are saying it to automatically inserts their own version to fill in the rest.

      1. I wonder what would the response would have been back in 2015 if the government had suggested a lockdown to reduce the number of flu deaths (there were 28,000 reported that year). If covid precautions work, there should also be a miraculous reduction in flu deaths this year.

        By the way we just received MILs death certificate, cause of death included diseases that she had recovered from over five years ago. That would make analysis pretty meaningless in the real world.

        1. Recovered from 5 yr ago – and now on the certificate ? – it seems they may have just as well printed her whole medical record out and stapled it together.
          A nurse told me about 2-3 week ago she had been helping the doctor that day that was doing the DCs. He was saying the diagnosis and she was writing it down to be signed afterwards. One, she knew had died of a heart attack, but still the doc said “Covid”. She mentioned the heart attack to him, where he turned to her and said ” COVID – and if you don’t want to do the job, there are others that will”.

      2. Norway average annual flu deaths from the last 5 years – 902. Population, about 5 3/4 million. COVID, so far – about 285 dead over 9 months. Why no total fluff and panic about flu?

      3. In a nutshell: deliberate lies are lies of commission; other lies – which are just as dangerous – are lies of omission.

        1. In Latin ” Suppressio veri, suggestio falsi…” Probably it came from the Fast Show, like that other Latin expression, “Scorchio!”

  41. ‘Morning, Peeps.

    The NT takes yet another battering from the letters, but so far no change of direction:

    SIR – How dare Hilary McGrady, director general of the National Trust, claim that the “real silent majority” of members are “not arguing about” the direction of the Trust?

    No one we know has sympathy for the organisation’s current agenda, and most are considering cancelling their memberships. The only thing stopping us is the damage that this would do to what was once an excellent and much-loved organisation. The current executive needs to be replaced.

    Martin and Maureen Warden
    Tring, Hertfordshire

    SIR – How blinkered is Hilary McGrady? Her latest claims reminded me of the BBC’s response to accusations of Left-wing bias.

    The BBC, however, has managed to change leadership, and is now promoting a change in attitude among its staff. It is time for the National Trust to do the same.

    Terry Curley
    Brentwood, Essex

    SIR – I cancelled my National Trust membership on Tuesday after many years of membership.

    I had ignored the initial warning signs, but the ridiculous assertion by its chairman, Tim Parker, that the Black Lives Matter movement is not political was the final straw.

    I have told the Trust that I will not rejoin until its approach aligns with its core purpose.

    Presumably, however, it can look forward to boosting its membership with woke liberals.

    David Hutchinson
    Nutley, East Sussex

    SIR – Charles Moore asks: “Why is the National Trust still falling for BLM?”

    I’ll bet he knows that the answer is supplied by the second of Robert Conquest’s three laws of politics, namely that “any organisation not explicitly Right-wing sooner or later becomes Left-wing”.

    Hamish Thomson
    Stroud, Gloucestershire

    SIR – I have read the National Trust’s report on slavery and colonialism, and welcome its efforts to reveal more of the history behind its properties.

    If some want no further information on the history of Britain in the 17th, 18th and 19th centuries, so be it. But some of us want to know more. My maiden name was Williams. However, my original family name was probably different, because my father was a black man from the Caribbean. It is likely that the name Williams had more to do with a slave owner.

    The British took more than three million Africans across the Atlantic. This may have happened a long time ago – but the reparations paid to slave owners lasted 182 years. The slave trade robbed me, and people like me, of my lineage. I do not blame anyone today, but I would like some recognition of the benefits that accrued to Britain from the inhuman practice of selling people.

    I will be taking out a family membership for the National Trust.

    Valerie Davies
    Bridstow, Herefordshire

    Well, bully for you Valerie Davies. Not sure how “…the slave trade robbed me of my lineage…” but each to his/her own, of course.

    Terry Curley, if you think that a few memos from the new DG “…is now promoting a change in attitude among its staff…” then I think you are in for a big disappointment.

    Edit: BTL comment from what must be a Nottlr:

    tony moore
    12 Nov 2020 3:47AM
    Valerie Davies – you say you want recognition of Britain’s benefit from the slave trade.

    Well, its complicated.

    You need to factor in that Africa had traded slaves for centuries before Britain arrived and trades over 9m today. Given this context, had it not been for Britain’s intervention, then you might not have had a lineage, as your ancestors would have been sold to more brutal slave masters. Also, tens of millions more than the 3m would have probably been enslaved in years after the early 1800s. given the appetite for slavery on the African continent from at least the 9th century.

    Africans would have also benefited as much as Britain in any “trade” of course, given it was precisely that – and not a donation. Overall, Afticans would have benefited from trading, various forms reparations including aid, the commonwealth and a better legacy left after the British actions to abolish slavery.

    As for the National Trust, it is their biased and myopic description of the slave trade, focusing on Britain’s sins and not those of Africans, that distorts the historical narrative. It was a cheap virtue signalling stunt in the wake of BLM, but backfired horribly when they were rightly perceived ridiculous for aligning with a violent, anti-white (and not pro-Black) clan of Marxists.

      2. Is it just me, or does her letter appear rather sycophantic? She will certainly be on McGrady’s Christmas card list…perhaps she was anyway??

  42. Remainer – What about chlorinated chicken, what about food standards, what about banned additives?

    Leaver – What about the chemicals that are in the Covid Vaccine, is it safe?

    Remainer – How dare you criticise the vaccine you anti Vaccer scum, everyone should be made to have it or they won’t be allowed out.

    1. That’s the issue though, isn’t it?

      I expected the ‘you can go out *IF* you can prove you’ve had the vaccine. If you’ve been tested. If you submit to the state. All for your own good.’

      It’s exhausting realising just how oppressive and freedom crushing the state machine is and worse that most people think this is acceptable.

      2. 326334+ up ticks,
        Afternoon W,
        “Most peoples think this is acceptable” ?
        I think not.
        I have a very strong feeling the second BIG BANG is about due.

    3. A person’s support or otherwise for the Covid vaccine has nothing to do with how they voted in 2016!

  43. Carrie Symonds should back off; Johnson is more than capable of fouling up ‘the Downing Street operation’ without any assistance from her.

    From the DT:

    Boris Johnson was trying to prevent an exodus of Downing Street staff on Wednesday night after a key aide resigned following a public power struggle with the Prime Minister’s fiancée Carrie Symonds.

    Dominic Cummings, Mr Johnson’s most senior adviser, was understood to be considering his position following the departure of his former Vote Leave ally Lee Cain as Mr Johnson’s director of communications.

    Mr Cain’s resignation prompted frantic late night scenes in No 10 as staff were tasked with ringing colleagues to gauge how many of them might quit if Mr Cummings followed Mr Cain out of the door.

    It came after reports that Mr Cummings had confronted the Prime Minister in Downing Street after Mr Cain announced he would be leaving at the end of the year.

    There were even fears that members of the Prime Minister’s Brexit negotiation team, including policy adviser Oliver Lewis, could quit in protest.

    Mr Cain quit as Mr Johnson’s director of communications after Ms Symonds effectively vetoed his promotion to Downing Street chief of staff.

    It came after an extraordinary briefing battle between allies of Ms Symonds and allies of Mr Cain, who include Mr Cummings, exposed a civil war at the heart of No 10.

    The departure of Mr Cain, who will leave his post at the end of the year, is likely to diminish the influence of his fellow Vote Leave veteran Mr Cummings, who was considering his own position on Wednesday night, according to allies.

    One said: “Dom is considering walking. The PM has asked aides to find out how many others, particularly Vote Leave veterans in No 10, will go if Dom does. They are doing a frantic ring-round to find out where people stand.”

    Mr Cain and Mr Cummings, two of the four most senior aides in the Prime Minister’s office, emerged as the losers in a high-stakes gamble against Ms Symonds and Allegra Stratton, who will become the face of Downing Street when it begins daily televised press conferences, who had also objected to Mr Cain’s appointment.

    Tory MPs expressed “despair” about Downing Street in-fighting at a time of national crisis, with Mr Johnson facing having to pick sides between two of No 10’s most important women and his most senior aides.

    Rishi Sunak, the Chancellor, made his own intervention by telling backbench MPs they had a “higher duty to the people of this nation” and that the public are “relying on us” to get them through the pandemic.

    The comments at a meeting of the 1922 Committee were seen by MPs as an instruction to focus on their jobs rather than becoming distracted by events in No 10.

    On Wednesday night, senior backbenchers urged Mr Johnson to use the crisis to “reset” his Downing Street operation by appointing an experienced party figure who could build bridges with the parliamentary party.

    On a day of high drama in No 10, Ms Symonds led a revolt against Mr Cain’s promotion by making it known that she objected to him becoming the Prime Minister’s right-hand man.

    Allies of Ms Symonds said she was “uncomfortable” with the appointment, questioning Mr Cain’s suitability for the role.

    Ms Stratton, who would have reported to Mr Cain in his new job, is also understood to have objected, with both women expressing unhappiness about Mr Cain’s at times abrasive manner and questioning the communications strategy under his leadership.

    But on Wednesday night, Mr Cain said that “after careful consideration I have this evening resigned as No 10 director of communications and will leave the post at the end of the year”.

    He confirmed he had been offered the post of chief of staff, saying it had been an “honour” to have been asked to serve in the role.

    Mr Johnson, meanwhile, described him as “a true ally and friend” who would be “much missed”.

    Mr Cain will be replaced by James Slack, the Prime Minister’s official spokesman, who has served both Mr Johnson and Theresa May in the Civil Service post.

    Mr Johnson had approached Mr Cain at the weekend to discuss his appointment as chief of staff, only for Ms Symonds to raise objections, insiders said. A promotion for Mr Cain would have ensured that Mr Cummings’s authority was not challenged by a new face in the Prime Minister’s office. Instead, Tory MPs were on Wednesday night calling on Mr Johnson to start afresh with his top team.

    Sir Charles Walker, a vice-chairman of the 1922 Committee, said: “The PM has got to put this crisis to good use and get someone into 10 Downing Street who backbenchers know and respect, and will have the Prime Minister’s and party’s interests entirely at heart.”

    It was claimed that Lord Udny-Lister, Mr Johnson’s chief strategic adviser, is to leave in January. The peer, 71, had been expected to leave for a while.

    Senior Tories were Wednesday night urging Mr Johnson to appoint David Canzini, a close ally of Sir Lynton Crosby who helped to run Mr Johnson’s leadership campaign, to the role. Mr Cain’s resignation will increase the influence of Ms Symonds and Ms Stratton, who only moved over to No 10 last month after serving as the Chancellor’s communications chief.

    They were understood to be unhappy with the prospect of Mr Johnson’s top team, which also includes Simon Case, the Cabinet Secretary, being all-male.

    Mr Johnson was already under pressure from senior Tory MPs to appoint a party grandee to become his chief of staff.

    Mr Cain is understood to have offered his resignation from his current role last week, complaining that if Ms Stratton became the face of No 10 and a new chief of staff was appointed he would be squeezed out. Mr Johnson then discussed with him the idea of a promotion.

    One source who has been close to Mr Johnson said that they suspected Ms Symonds had identified her preferred candidate for the job, saying: “She won’t be taking this quietly… She will have someone in mind.”

    Allies of Mr Cain defended his record and said he would have been the right choice. One said: “When Boris was in hospital and Dominic Cummings was laid up in Durham with coronavirus, Lee was left running the show.”

    Mr Cain and Ms Symonds are understood to have fallen out when she posted photographs of her and Mr Johnson on her Instagram account without telling him in June last year.

    3. I used to think that Dominic Cummings wore the metaphorical Downing St trousers, now it looks as though Carrie’s clout is bigger.

    4. The whole article revolves around “Allies of Cain said…” and “Friends of Ms Symonds say…”. What tosh, and it’s hard to believe bloody Boris had a director of communications.

      2. Precisely. It’s alarming how the public readily believes these “sources” and “insiders” without attribution or confirmation.

    5. Who voted Carrie Symmons in? She must butt out!
      The point is not who is in what position, but who makes the appointment? The first tart girlfriend, or the voted-in Prime Minister?

      1. Or maybe we just shouldn’t pay too much attention to backstairs gossip – which is all that makes up the DT article.

        Most men listen to their wives/partners… and 99.999999% of them pay no heed whatsoever unless it’s the sort of matter that they are not very interested in anyway. Given Johnson’s history it is hard to see him being the odd one out.

  45. I find it odd that when the National Trust is self-flagellating over it’s properties links to slavery and colonisation they do not seem to consider the fact that even without these links there are not many properties that were not built and financed on the back of the hard labour of British farmworkers, miners , mill and factory workers who lived and worked not as slaves but still had short, deprived and sometimes brutal lives. The activities of the Barbary slavers and their 1.25 million white european victims are well documented but conveniently ignored, where are the demands for reparation for their victim’s decendants , where are the action groups for descendants of chimney boys, the victims of phossy jaw, Mule scavengers deaths and Mule spinners cancer, the descendants of those in service, who while not slaves were still effectively owned and controlled by their masters as an under-class and did not live the clinically clean , healthy and wonderful lives as portrayed in fantasy world of Julian Alexander Kitchener-Fellowes ?

    Rant over , Good Morning all

        1. What a pity those in high places don’t understand the history rather more.
          Maybe you should write a letter to the paper with the same comment?

          1. You’ve inspired me to do just that, I’ve removed the Barbary reference as it was not altogether relevant and sent it off to the DT Letters editor/s. I will not be holding my breath though. On the upside I’ve 2 bags of Fazer Salmiakki Mix turning up tommorow.

          2. Excellent! The great thing about salmiakki is so few people like them that you’ve a fighting chance of having some yourself. The same with Salmiakki vodka… hic!

          3. I have some salted liquorice so just made some myself. It’s certainly an acquired taste !

            I also have a bottle of liquorice alla Sambucca which tastes as badnice.

    2. A concise and cogent analysis of reality but BLM and the Neoliberals are vehicles for the appropriation of power.

    3. An entire political movement quite literally emerged to campaign for the rights of farmworkers, miners, mill workers etc. The movement became rather successful and has given us a number of governments.

      In so far as the actions of the Barbary slavers were linked to any NT properties, I’m sure they’ll be in the NT report in much the same way as properties linked to abolition get a mention. Once again it would appear that people determined to be offended are offended by a report few even bother to read.

      1. The abolition movement spearheaded by the British happened around the same time but it doesn’t negate the fact of what preceded it . My objection is the very narrow focus on one aspect of human subjugation to pander to a vocal minority while ignoring the wider field of misery. I was an NT volunteer and attended the annual debriefs for some years and became more and more alarmed by the drift from their core purpose. I was offended long before the report was even considered. The Barbary reference was only to point out that they are very selective in their views

        1. The NT is not being selective in their views. The report covers links between properties and slavery, with the slavery links covering ownership of slaves and abolition.

          1. There is no context, yes the report does as you say but it should not stand alone, if there is a disreputable history attached to a property that needs to be highlighted as well, anything else will just add fuel to the activists anger and further alienate the NT’s membership. My great grandmother was in service in Scotland and the tales handed down through the family about her life ( well after the abolition of slavery) are shameful and just as worthy of investigation.

  46. DM Headline

    ‘There’s a revolution happening’: Dominic Cummings ‘is looking for a way to leave No10 without losing face’ as his Vote Leave empire ‘starts to fall apart’ after Carrie and her squad see off Boris aide Lee Cain in brutal civil war

    The way to Boris’s heart has been not through his heart but through his testicles. And it is this weakness that has destroyed him and let an enemy deep into the heart of Downing Street.

    Shakespeare’s Hamlet spoke about the one flaw in a person’s make up which can corrupt everything else and lead to his destruction. . In Macbeth it is ambition, in Othello is is jealousy,’ in King Lear it is vanity, in Antony and Cleopatra it is lust and in Hamlet himself it is indecision.

    So oft it chances in particular men
    That for some vicious mole of nature in them—
    As in their birth (wherein they are not guilty,
    Since nature cannot choose his origin),
    By the o’ergrowth of some complexion,
    Oft breaking down the pales and forts of reason,
    Or by some habit that too much o’erleavens
    The form of plausive manners—that these men,
    Carrying, I say, the stamp of one defect,
    Being nature’s livery or fortune’s star,
    Their virtues else (be they as pure as grace,
    As infinite as man may undergo)
    Shall in the general censure take corruption
    From that particular fault. The dram of evil
    Doth all the noble substance of a doubt
    To his own scandal.

    No wonder they want to drop teaching Shakespeare in schools – the pupils might learn rather too much!

    1. Boris should only listen to his wife, ahem, fiance, in matters solely relating to his family and relationship. Nothing else. If she doesn’t like it, then she can either stand for parliament and get in line with every other Tory MP, keep her mouth shut (I said the same for Mr May when Teresa was PM) or end the relationship.

      1. I commented yesterday on the fact that she has been downgraded from fiancée to ‘long term girl-friend’ in the Daily Telegraph. I wonder what the significance – if any – is of this.

        And what was Johnson’s greeting to Biden saying that he hoped to work with him on the environment about? Before the election I cannot remember Boris saying much about having bought into the environmental scam but clearly Carrie has converted him. I suppose Boris recognized in Biden that someone keen to profit from electoral fraud would always be up for a few more frauds when the chance came along.

    2. I for one will be sorry if Cummings goes as I have the feeling he was the backbone behind the Brexit saga.

    2. I hope you’re feline better this arvo Bill.
      Did you watch the TV prog last night about the twin Tiger cubs being raised in Oz.
      That family had their work cut out. And of course had to earn their own stripes.

  49. 326334+ up ticks,
    It is a start but, politico’s and islam would be far better

    Austria to Ban ‘Political Islam’ in Wake of Europe Terror Attacks

    1. Islam is political. It is both a religion and a political movement. The two facets are inseparable.

      3. 326334+ up ticks,
        Evening A,
        Granted, by the same token a multitude of politico’s currently are treacherous, so also them two facets are inseparable.

    1. We have sold our birthright for a mess of pottage.

      A mess of pottage is something immediately attractive but of little value taken foolishly and carelessly in exchange for something more distant and perhaps less tangible but immensely more valuable.

  51. afternoon all … ”

    Carrie Gracie calls watchdog’s report on BBC equal pay a ‘whitewash’ ”

    Er., like the Labour anti-semetism influence from Shami Chakrabarti. Totall bollax all of them …

    1. A puzzled pensioner writes:

      What on earth has the running of the government to do with the Prime Minister’s most recent girl-friend?

      2. Having watched the fiascos of the last 10 months, I conclude that anyone is better than the current mob.

        1. I agree. It’ll be the cosh that does for BPAPM – and allow Halfcock to replace him. Can’t wait…

          3. Listen you, I didn’t get where I am today reading and digesting every detail on here.

            The original meaning of BPAPM is Bachelor of Public Affairs and Policy Management which is why I sought clarification as I guessed you didn’t mean that.

          6. Lucky you – in several ways. I simply could not drink a pint of beer. That’s why I appreciated the 250ml bottles that are sold on the Continong.

          7. I can’t mess about with those silly little bottles of French beer – a waste of a clean glass mostly. Anyway I deserve a decent couple of pints after working in the garden all day.

          14. Not at all – your language skills, yes, but I’m sure the words were properly typed; I just don’t read Tagalog.
            ;-))

          17. “Cosh” = blunt instrument. The information which that dangerous bint has on Johnson will be the cosh that causes him to pack it in.

            That simpler? You’ve been away from Blighty too long….

    1. It’s as carp as usual here. Time they sorted the time-stamp out but otherwise it’s as normal.

        1. I could load photos if I deleted cookies and history (last year) but I can’t even do that now.

          Good afternoon, Jack.

          1. I don’t even get notifications unless I refresh the page.
            Even then, it comes up with the same “+9” replies/upvotes 🙁

            Afternoon poppiesmum.

        1. I’ve run disqus across 5 different browsers on Windows 8, Windows 10 and Android with the same problems on all of them.
          If I was a conspiracy believer I’d be paranoid as hell by now.

          4. I have just re-installed Firefox when it refused to start up for the second day running after its update.

    4. I really don’t care. I’m sorry, I just don’t. They’re incredulous, comical laughable jokes. Much like all wokists.

    1. Don’t forget your adjustable spanner for attaching the scythes to the trolley wheels, just in case they use a different make of trolley.

        1. Shopping, unmasked, while walking along to ” Born to be Wild ” too no doubt. Don’t worry. Nottlers will crowdfund your fine.

          1. Yeah, but we won’t stop the stasi from arresting you.

            Bunch of crazed nutters. Can’t they just leave us alone?

          2. good camouflage. Springsteen is a democrat, the stasi would never believe that a true conservative would listen to such crass music.

  59. Good morning, my friends

    The current interference of the prime minister’s mistress in national affairs is not only a disgrace but it poses a grave threat to the state.

    There are two things that cannot be denied: i) Boris Johnson is a serial fornicator; ii) his relationships with women have always been most unsatisfactory because he is incapable of threating women decently. His current swing to being uxorious and under the control of his mistress is even worse and more dangerous than his habitual callous promiscuity.

    If Boris Johnson has an unquenchable psychological and physical appetite for sexual encounters then we must decide whether this is not acceptable or whether we should argue that it is not important as long as it does not interfere with his job. Some would argue that Ms Symonds is interfering with his job.

    The question of suitability for political power is discussed in Shakespeare’s Scottish play.

    Macduff, the Thane of Fife, has travelled to England to implore Malcolm, the son of the King Duncan whom Macbeth murdered, to return and reclaim his throne from the tyrant in battle. In order to test Macduff’s loyalty Malcolm plays devil’s advocate against himself by claiming that he is every bit as depraved as Macbeth and is just as unsuitable to be king. One of the vices that Malcolm says he has is the sort of intemperate sexual appetite that our current prime minister seems to have:

    ..”your daughters,
    Your matrons and your maids, could not fill up
    The cistern of my lust, and my desire.”

    Macduff deplores this but says that on its own this intemperate vice need not interfere with Malcolm being king and it is only when Malcom claims to have an equally strong lust for money and power that in despair Malcolm exclaims:

    Fit to govern!
    No, not to live.

    We lack the pragmatism of the French. There is separate accommodation specially provided for the mistress of the French president in an annexe at the Élysée Palace but this is kept well apart from affairs of state. If we cannot provide permanent accommodation for mistresses for Boris then perhaps the state should employ professional sex workers to take care of his libidinous ‘needs’ instead?

    3. Boris can shag who or what he likes as far as I am concerned, but unless the shaggee is a formal part of government, she can f*ck right off, get in a car and f*ck off some more. It surely isn’t beyond imagination that Boris can ignore what she says to do? because if not, he needs to be out on the streets before lunchtime today as a danger to society.

    4. Boris can shag who or what he likes as far as I am concerned, but unless the shaggee is a formal part of government, she can f*ck right off, get in a car and f*ck off some more. It surely isn’t beyond imagination that Boris can ignore what she says to do? because if not, he needs to be out on the streets before lunchtime today as a danger to society.

    5. I do wonder what on earth is going on over there when his wife dictates who he can hire.

      I ’employ’ 7 people, which is a bit odd, as they own the company on paper so I suppose they employ me to hire them…. but anyone, the one time the wife got involved in my office lark she called it a madhouse run by a lunatic tolerated by the inmates thinking they were staff.

      Admittedlly we were having a confetti grenade day but hey ho.

    6. It’s worse than that. Consider the temperament, character, and intelligence of a woman who would entangle herself with a faithless philanderer.

  60. Uxorious is a word which John Milton used to describe Adam in Paradise Lost Book IX. The word is used to make clear that Adam was too fond of Eve and this led him to give in to her request that he too should eat the fruit of the tree of which he was commanded by God not to eat.

    So the whole story of the human race was one of doom initiated by Adam’s uxoriousness which led to Mankind’s expulsion from Eden! It looks as if Boris Johnson’ uxoriousness is going to have some pretty dire consequences too!

    2. Today’s school pupils are advised not to read John Milton’s works – there are too many polysyllabic words in it.

          4. I was a “new man” in 1966 when my elder son was born… I used to do the Harrington squares (and muslin inserts) before setting off for work by tube from Ealing Broadway.

          8. The very one. The mother of my son used to push him in his pram across Haven Green to meet me after work!

          10. Haven’t you both gone on Google Maps – found the road and then zoomed right in to ground level and “travelled” along the road? See the changes.

          11. I’m not sure what you’re suggesting Walter. I don’t need to look at google maps, I (and Bill) know the area well.

          12. I assumed you had both moved away years ago – and with councils altering things, old buildings demolished and new ones built if you hadn’t been to the area for a long time you can see what has changed. Zoom in as far as possible, click on the little box in the corner of the screen, which changes it to “above street” level view then grab the little “orange man” off the menu at the side, plonk him where you want and there you have ground level viewing, recorded from cars with roof mounted cameras.

            Only trying to give a bit of help. Apologies.

          13. The area in question is mostly residential roads of decent housing and I doubt much has changed, Walter. If it has been buggered about with I’d rather remember it all how it was!

          14. Showed (on Streetview) my mother the house in Leicester that her mother had lived in as a little girl. She was quite moved by it.

          15. Bentalls in Kingston was an amazing Aladdin’s Cave back then and early 60s. It was mostly look but can’t afford, sadly.

          16. MB was unusual for the time. Our elder son was the first baby of our group.
            Many – now retired – pillocks of our local establishment learnt their nappy changing and burping skills on him.

          3. Most of us here were probably at school in the 60s and our teachers were all older and mostly trained prewar or in the 50s.

          6. Children born in 1946 found that things were very competitive. Indeed when I took common entrance the pass mark was 65% average and only 70% of “A” levels were given pass grades. Top grades were very hard to get but it was possible to get into Oxbridge with B and C grades at “A” level as they were more difficult than they are today. Mind you First Class degrees were almost impossible to get and most people got ‘Desmonds’ (2.2s) whereas nowadays about 25% of students seem to get 1sts and the vast majority get 2.1s.

            My schooling and teaching was as follows:

            1954 – 1959 – Prep School
            1960 – 1964 – Blundell’s
            1966 – 1969 – UEA
            1973 – 1974 – University of Southampton
            1974 – 1989 – Teaching in independent sector in England
            1989 – Caroline and Richard’s “A” level courses for Sixth Formers in France.

            To be honest Caroline is much better educated than I am even though she went through her school and university education several years after I did. Her mastery of languages is formidable and she is very well read in English, French and Spanish.

          9. *Innocent face….Just don’t want JSP to dissolve her keyboard as she spits venom all over it.

          12. Not all of us did Common Entrance, Rastus – I went to a small village CofE primary, and did the 11+.

          15. There is a great incentive to master other languages if you don’t speak a world language 🙂 Also, I noticed that when they picked up English TV, they didn’t dub it, but put subtitles, which gave you a chance to hear the original language and benefit from it.

          17. In those days it was possible to take the entrance exams for Cambridge and be offered a place at a College on the back of the papers. The exams were regarded as being harder than A levels.

            My letter came in on Christmas Eve.
            We are sorry….
            at which point my heart sank, but it got slightly better…

            that we cannot offer you a scholarship;

            but you will be accepted subject to A level results.

            I was offered a conditional place subject to attaining 2 “E’s”

          18. A friend of mine got far worse “A” levels than I did. He got 2 E grades and still got into Cambridge but obviously excelled in the Entrance exams.

            My niece, Susie, got into Oxford with A B C grades and then went on to get two blues – one for rowing the other a half blue in gymnastics. She went to the same school as Carrie Symonds but several years earlier. Her sister, Harriet, needed 2 As and a B when she went to Oxford and she became captain of boats.

            My two sons got better grades than I did but still not get into Oxbridge. Caroline, of course, had the best rades in the family but decided that the Languages course at Bath was better so went there and did her Masters’ in France.

          19. If truth be known it was a bit of a lottery in those days and a good reference from your headmaster could swing it.

          23. There were five classes in my first primary school, and only one (woman) teacher. But as the total number varied from 20 to 25 children she was able to cope with us from the ages of 4+ to 10 or so and with a wide range of abilities. She taught me to love books and to read almost anything that came along… I remember her fondly.

          24. I remember Mrs Foster, the infant teacher – she had the biggest class and the biggest room – ages ranged from four to seven. Then into the “middle class” in the “middle room”, which was quite smal and we had several changes of teacher.
            Then the “scholarship class” with Mrs Ralph, for the final couple of years to get ready for the 11+. Mrs Ralph sometimes brought her dog to school – he was a Kerry Blue called Mickey. It was a good school and I was happy there. I was no good at maths but I loved books.

          25. I sometimes think that children who went to small (usually rural or semi-rural) schools have a happier start in life. Of course some thrive in big ponds, but I’m glad that I started out in a small one.

          26. The culmination may have been the ’80s, but the “dumbing down” impetus had been building up for a long time before then.

          28. More than a few ills that had been festering away below the surface came to maturity during Maggie’s time in office and, whilst the ignorant blame her for the problems they caused, the real blame goes back years and ever decades earlier.

          29. It was fairly rigorous when I was in secondary/teriary education as a pupil/student (1960 – 1971). By the time I did my PGCE in 1974 we were into “don’t correct any spellings, you’ll stifle their creativity” territory and some numpties advocated not teaching children the alphabet, let alone their times tables. Quite how they expected anybody to use a dictionary or the telephone directory I have no idea. They probably never thought about practicalities.

        2. Funny, but one of my clients’ teenagers was reading Milton last time I was at the farm. No word of discouragement nor of any failure of understanding.

          Having a fondness for your wife isn’t a flaw, a failing, a fault, or the cause of the doom of the human race.

    2. A question for you PT…

      1) Did you post that video from your laptop.
      2) If so, how did you do it.
      3) I have a video I need a name to the music. Royal Marines/Edinburgh Tattoo. 2017 Tattoo.

          1. You can upload videos from YouTube by copying the URL as it is playing, then post that in the comment box. You can also open a YouTube account and upload video of your own and then also post them here.

          2. I’ve checked out Youtube P. The problem there is they show the entire RM sets.
            I’m searching for a specific piece of music within one of those sets.
            Not knowing it’s name is a bit of a handicap.

          4. That looks familiar. Following the RM drummers percussion set, the full band began playing the cracking piece of music I need a name for..

          5. Then tell me at which point the piece of music you are referring to and Nottlers will find the name.

          10. “Something went wrong. Unable to play this video. Learn more.”
            The bit I did see, 5 minutes 30 seconds in they finished their percussion set JSP.
            That looks like it.

          11. I’ve listened to the bit after the percussion section and don’t recognise it as such, but if I had to guess,it sounds like a variation on a film theme possibly re-written for the tattoo.

          13. I’ve searched a few sites but can’t immediately find anything.

            I sus[ect there will be a programme (written not TV) somewhere that gives the full list.

            If JS is that concerned he should do his own research.

          14. “If JS is that concerned he should do his own research.”

            To think this thread started with me asking PT a seemingly simple question.

          21. Look at the “blockbuster” films of the year and listen to their theme tunes. You might get lucky.

          22. Sorry, I can play the whole thing but I don’t know what the piece of music after the drum set is… I’m not an expert on band music and it sounds to me like a fairly modern piece.

            This is from Glasgow in the same year – I think its the same set – try at 7 minutes.

            If that doesn’t help I’m stumped.

            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beQPn8cp8yk

          26. Royal Marines 2017 Edinburgh Tattoo PT.
            A cracking piece of music, I just need to put a name to it.
            Following the drummers percussion set, the RM band played that piece of music.

  62. That’s me for the day. Kittens to vet tomorrow for vaccinations. (Very à la mode..!!)

    A demain.

    2. if vaccinations are not good enough for you, why are you subjecting the kittens to a bit of bill gates processing.

      1. No comparison. Feline vaccines have been around for years and are known to be virtually trouble-free.

        What is being foisted upon us is completely untried. An utter disgrace.

          1. Thalidomide wasn’t a vaccine and it was being prescribed to pregnant women without having been tested on them. It is highly unlikely that there will be anything in a vaccine which is terratogenic – simply because it is a vaccine and not a drug. Which is not to say that there are no question marks over any of these up-coming vaccines – but simply that the thalidomide comparison is not really a very good one.

          2. true but that experience should be a warning. I wonder how many pregnant women were in the phase 3 trials.

            Thankfully the decision to balance further testing against speed of approval is not one that I need to make.

          3. I don’t think there’s a pharmaceutical company in the world that doesn’t think about what happened. Even the people who develop veterinary medicines (and who are far too young to remember) know about it and talk about it. Terratogens are a big fear in any drug development, because deformed/dead infants are never an acceptable outcome.

            My mother was offered thalidomide when she was expecting me… but decided that she could manage without pills.

            I think it has been mentioned that the vaccine is not yet recommended for pregnant women, presumably because they are awaiting outcomes. But as I said earlier, there isn’t likely to be anything in a vaccine to cause a specific problem – though between about 5 and 11 weeks even a minor viral infection can cause things to go wrong. My eldest great-nephew has a chromosome deletion and they think it was probably caused by a virus. Pregnancy is still a bit of a lottery, even with all the stuff we know.

  64. Ms Sturgeon has just been on TV urging President Trump to concede defeat. What I don’t understand is why Soros thinks that President Trump will listen to Sturgeon?

    1. President Trump already has to contend with the entire US media and BBC rattling on about ‘unsubstantiated’ fraud claims when it is obvious to anyone following the twists and turns of the election that something or more likely a number of things is amiss.

      I suspect Sturgeon is hoping to see us remain in the EU which is Biden’s stated position.

      I hope that Trump had prepared for monitoring the obvious voting machine fraud and that the persons responsible will be brought to justice. I suspect the statisticians are working on the vote shift from Trump to Biden in a number of key states.

      1. I think the machines and the programmes are the key.

        If there is the slightest hint that the counting within the tabulating machines is awry the Democrats are in deep shit.

        1. It’s difficult to see the wood from the trees given the tactic of throwing out numerous allegations, but as far as I can tell, Trump and his allies haven’t alleged anything is amiss with the tabulating machines.

          2. I didn’t make myself clear enough. There are lots of claims on YouTube, but where are the Court cases linked to this alleged fraud? As far as I can tell Trump’s supporters are just sowing confusion.

          3. It takes a while to get the cases into court.

            This video, if correct, and I accept it’s a big if, would suggest that there is a real problem.

            I would give it a week or so.

          4. Trouble is, I’ve been told so many times that Trump is “about to release” some evidence or another. Never happens.

          5. If it is as serious as it should be, it will be out of Trump’s hands.

            It will either be stopped very soon or develop a life of its own, like Watergate or Monicagob.

          6. Quite. The federal Commissioner for Elections ( or a title similar) has stated publicly that the election was fraudulent. Nuff sed!

          7. The Republican Secretary of State for Georgia has said that there was no evidence of fraud in his state. He has started an audit (not a recount) to prove his point.

          8. I’ve tried to track that quote down.

            So far I think it’s at a State rather than a National level Commissioner and unfortunately, if it’s the same one that you are writing about, the words and lip-synch are dreadful, it looks very faked.

          12. Best send out for some real food. Trump is not stupid, he has been playing the election rigging card for some time.
            He is probably going to demand recounts and push meaningless lawsuits in an attempt to run out the clock on states declaring their official results at which time shenanigans will be played to get Republican stooges to vote in the electoral college.

            Fair election, who is kidding who?

          13. You know, if it were a contest between God and Satan, I’m pretty sure that you would be Satan’s right hand man.

            Am I wrong? Then disprove it.

          14. To quote Chris Krebs from the Cybersecurity and infrastructure Agency (that is an agency that Trump created) it is just nonsense, not a real thing

            Cisa.gov

          15. If so, it will end soon.

            Assuming the video appearing on your link is the one you are referring to, I guess you missed the fact he concentrates entirely on Foreign interferrence. Nothing whatsoever on Republican or Democrat supporters getting into the systems.

            He doesn’t mention home grown vote riggers at all.

          18. All lies and jest
            A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

            [Paul Simon: The Boxer]

          19. All lies and jest
            A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.

            [Paul Simon: The Boxer]

          21. Bob, do you ever have anything value adding of your own to post or are you only capable of posting other people words on Twitter (or “Twatter” as you so amusingly call it)?

          22. Be quiet, troll – we have rumbled you from a long time back. And it’s not because you have anything viable or truthful to say.

          23. Cochrane has regrettably reverted to his former self having returned to us initially with some valid comments.

            Just ignore him. I tried but have probably given up. It is much the same with Jennifer SP.

            After a while these persons show their innate prejudices, futile and objectionable arguments accompanied by instant downvoting in the case of JSP and a search for sheer argument for the sake of argument from Cochrane.

            We just need to ignore them both.

        3. You are assuming that the court won’t be bent. I fear many of the officials looking at the evidence will say black is white to keep Trump out of office.

          1. so just out of curiosity, what would it take before you could accept the results? Trump will swear that white is black if it keeps him in power, so it appears that he will never acknowledge that he lost a vote.

            Maybe the Supreme court? His vaunted conservative recruits are not exactly falling into line with their comments on the Affordable Care Act arguments, maybe they are truly independent.

          2. A convincing, thorough, transparent investigation, with every aspect covered (fake voters, faked ballot papers, software fraud). Officials who don’t make it about Donald Trump, because the whole election fraud issue is bigger than that.

            I think you need to distinguish what Trump says from what he does. He knows perfectly well what is what. There was an interesting small article the other day about a study into how Trump uses Twitter. He’ll make a crazy tweet that will have the left foaming at the mouth as a cool ploy to distract them from other stuff.

          3. Then the dems will complain about how voters lists are being manipulated to control who can vote.

            Physical manipulation as you suggest is one thing, another issue is all of these appeals over when ballots had to be received. That should have been decided well before the election. There are now tens of thousands of votes at risk of being disqualified even though they were made in time and according to the rules in effect on election day. When a judge has to order the post office to stop delaying and deliver postal votes, it goes beyond fair elections.

            There is so much wrong with an electoral system that places control in the hands of political appointees.

          4. “Then the dems will complain about how voters lists are being manipulated to control who can vote.”

            ‘cos they want to keep all the dead Democrats on the voters list?

          5. A very live senate candidate was removed from the electoral roles in Georgia, just a minor mistake. There has been some pretty aggressive pruning of electoral roles in some states, that needs to go into the what could be wrong lust for review.

            Was it Minnesota that examined a suspected dead voter list and managed to contact very alive voters in the sample they used.
            Children are often given the same name as their parents, daddy might have died but juniors vote was perfectly valid, the initial cross check turned up the old man in error.. Then all of the should be dead because their birthday was 1/1/1900 were also undead, the date was a filler used to get the ballot into the system.

          7. Yes, I agree with that. People tend to forget how important the act of voting in a democracy is.
            If there are complaints over voter lists being manipulated, then every disputed voter should be decided individually by a court. In the UK we have very bad experience with mass postal voting, which is a formula for fraud. If people can’t be bothered to turn up in person (overseas military and the very sick excepted) then they shouldn’t get a vote. Expatriates can deliver it to their consulate.

      2. If something is amis, where is evidence, any evidence supporting this?

        Just about every legal challenge has been laughed out of court. Just about every rumour of corruption appearing in those Twitter snippets have been roundly discounted. Trumps great legal challenge went from Monday to next week, just like his health care plan has been next week for about four years now.

        If the manual recount in Georgia matches the machine based count, what next?

        I have no more inside knowledge than anyone else round here but unless baseless rumours start turning into proof of problems, it is beginning to sound more like a spoilt brat throwing his toys out of the pram.

        1. You have stated the narrative that the MSM and Democrats have been propounding throughout.

          The same people who sought to discount the result of the 2016 election with erroneous claims of Russian interference and who sought to impeach the President, all proven liars and dissemblers are now suddenly whiter than white.

          1. so show proof, its quite simple.

            Trump has been banging on about fraudulent mail in ballots for months, he has some very high priced lawyers pressing his case. Trump tweeting that the media do not love him is not proof.

          2. I’m still waiting for Trump to publish ‘the memo’ that Polly kept promising us was about to be published and which would prove something or other.

          3. You might just as well have asked the Democrats to have produced their evidence condemning Trump over four years. Evidence was there none, just incessant claims and innuendo.

          4. There is plenty of evidence which his lawyers will no doubt present at the appropriate time. Votes for candidates can only rise, quickly or slowly. They cannot go backwards.
            In PA Trump lost almost 1M votes and strangely the Biden vote rose by virtually the same amount.

          6. It is utterly believable, I’m afraid. I witnessed a UKIP candidate lose a considerable number of votes at a count and the Lib Dem’s vote count for the same ward rose accordingly. You’d think that corrupt practices were a third world thing, wouldn’t you? This happened at a county council election in Shrewsbury.

          7. Well that’s quite understandable, the cosy liblabcon coalition will spare no effort to retain their control over government. He wrote, wishing that he was joking!

            As for the US, maybe one or two incidents will come out but for the whole election machine to be so corrupt that they subverted so many individual polls is really into George Orwell land.

            If so much fraud took place some evidence will have been leaked by now, someone in the know would have sold their soul for a pile of dollars.

          9. If you are at the count – as an observer – you simply point out that there’s been an error…. and it gets fixed. Because that’s what it usually is – an error.

            You are not permitted to be a teller if you belong to a political party.

          10. Yes, but Conway is alleging a large scale fraud. I just wonder if he/ she reported it. Unfortunately he/ she hasn’t replied!

          11. No he isn’t, Council election votes for a single ward are not counted in sufficient numbers to constitute “large scale fraud”, some wards are not even contested. In fact, he simply saw a number change and made an assumption of fraud. The change may have been to reflect an earlier error, it may have been an error in itself, but it didn’t (as he has now admitted) affect the outcome at all and probably only amounted to a dozen or so votes.

          12. I didn’t allege “large scale fraud” at all. I merely said I saw a discrepancy between the numbers of votes I saw counted and reported at the table and the announcement of the votes.

          13. Your last sentence is not true. This is what the Electoral Commission says about Tellers: “ Tellers are usually volunteers for candidates. They stand outside polling stations or polling places and record the electoral number of electors who have voted. By identifying electors who have not voted and relaying this information to the candidate or their supporters, tellers play an important role in elections and referendums. The candidate or their supporters may then contact the voters who have not yet been to vote during polling day and encourage them to vote”. In my experience, Tellers are almost always a member of a candidate’s party.

          14. A misunderstanding I think. You are referring, correctly, to polling station tellers.

            Teller is also a term often used for those who actually do the counting – at the count. Mainly council staff nowadays and rules may well have changed, but when my sister was asked to act in this capacity for one or both of the 1980s election she was specifically told that if she was a party member she couldn’t do so. She was asked because she had been a bank teller and was used to counting sheaves of paper.

          17. You need to read posts carefully – I said that I had never heard the term being used in the way you indicated, ie, about the person counting votes in a UK local or national government election.

          18. I read your comment with great care, it is not, after all, a work of great length or complexity. I replied politely and informatively. I really don’t know what more you expect, or why you seem determined to criticise.

          19. With one exception, anyone reading the exchange between you and me will know where the problem lies.

          20. No because it would have been my word (I was alone watching the table) against theirs. It happened that I saw and heard the teller announce the number (an even number and the bundles were completed ones) as he put it in the completed tray to be sent off to the central collection point after the count had been completed. The LD’s votes were also stated (they were an odd number and included a part bundle, which had the number of votes written on a pink slip, as is usual). When the number of votes for the candidates was announced, the even number had mysteriously become a lower (odd) number and the odd number had been mysteriously increased (to more than the other candidate’s votes and to more than the number written on the incomplete bundle slip), somewhere between leaving the table after counting and the announcement. By that time, it was too late to do anything. It did not actually affect the result as the Con candidate had clearly won and was duly elected. It just meant that the UKIP candidate’s performance was made to look worse than it was. Dirty tricks.

          21. When I checked on the range of the sale of Dominion counting machines I found that the Clinton Foundation are selling these or ‘donating’ them to African countries.

            I presume this is to ensure that the evil tinpot dictators can fix the vote in elections to their favour. Of course the pretence is that the Clinton Foundation wish to ensure free and fair elections in those tinpot dictatorships. You really could not make this shit up.

          22. If a recount is called, then it should be completed fully and the election winner not called until that is completed.

            If Biden wins, fair enough. If Trump wins, fair enough.

          23. But, Wibbles, if you’re going to do that, paper votes only, no postal votes except for overseas service personnel and proof of ID required.

  65. Evening, all. The National Distrust cartel will not listen to its members because they are woke and woke people KNOW they are right and everyone else is wrong. As an aside, it seems like it was a good move to take Coolio on loan (and to be doubly sure I may have to start training for BHS Level 2 exams) as the government doesn’t know its ar$e from its elbow and has now said you can’t ride just for recreation. Somebody needs to put the beggars out of their misery.

    1. He is signalling that the country no longer belongs to the indigenous of these British isles of ours, Belle.

    2. Was he celebrating Easter? This is, nominally at least, a Christian country with an Established Church.

    3. This is England a Christian country. We do not wish to see a British government kowtowing to Muslims, neither do we wish to see British Minister’s of the Crown being sworn in by allegiance to the Koran in preference to the Bible.

          2. Yes I did. I wrote a long reply explaining what happened. If it isn’t in your notifications, discurse must have scattered it to the ether.

            Edit. My reply appears in your thread, so kindly stop assuming something hasn’t happened because you can’t be bothered to read your replies.

          4. Wait until the muslims reach critical mass. You might even long for a return to Christian values. Islam doesn’t do toleration.

        2. It is a Hindu festival. Our Chancellor is a Hindu – as he has every right to be. And he swore his oath on the Bhagavad Gita… as is also his right.

          5. That is a novelty to me but I could believe anything nowadays in this broken country.

            Edit: I find it odd that someone can swear an oath of allegiance to the Crown on a book of faith which encourages the death of all ‘infidels’ who do not follow that faith. No doubt you will become tied up with your own twisted logic to explain this conundrum. But then you have an answer to everything, flawed as it usually is.

            Tell me it is the Law! It probably is but I cannot be arsed to check since there is now so much bad law out there.

          6. We never had any problem with the millions of Empire soldiers who took their oath on the book of their faith, and fought and died for the Empire.

          7. I should have added that it may also be made as an “affirmation of allegiance” which requires no sacred text whatsoever.

          1. So when you say “we don’t want…” (a comment I often see here), who is the “we” and how do you know what the “we” think?

      3. If we are a Christian country with an established church why do we have an atheist Archbishop of Canterbury?

        And why are there no churches in Moslem countries like Saudi Arabia and over 1,500 mosques in England?

  67. Right, having finally completed the section of the terrace retaining wall I’ve been working on, I got the last 13 blocks needed done this afternoon, I’m off to bed!
    A peaceful night and pleasant dreams to all!
    https://youtu.be/MZKKeKTa-cU

      1. Alternatively, it conjures up this – with regard to Biden…

        When icicles hang by the wall
        And Dick the shepherd blows his nail
        And Tom bears logs into the hall
        And milk comes frozen home in pail,
        When blood is nipp’d and ways be foul,
        Then nightly sings the staring owl,
        Tu-whit;
        Tu-who, a merry note,
        While greasy Joan doth keel the pot.

        When all aloud the wind doth blow
        And coughing drowns the parson’s saw
        And birds sit brooding in the snow
        And Marian’s nose looks red and raw,
        When roasted crabs hiss in the bowl,
        Then nightly sings the staring owl,
        Tu-whit;
        Tu-who, a merry note,
        While greasy Joan doth keel the pot.

        Is Biden, ‘greasy Joan’?

    4. well if the US goes down the carbon tax route they will become less efficient, which might give canada an opportunity to compete.

      Canada does have a few green the economy politicians that we could give to Biden (please).

      1. Indeed. Here’s ‘Sam Smith’ (I’m sure I’ve seen him regularly on Twitter on the same theme):

        It’s simple, poverty forces people together, the poorer the community the more people are forced into living together. It’s a very privileged view of the world where people don’t see and understand this. Now ask yourself why that even in the modern world this is still a thing.

        It’s just that racism leads to poverty and poverty forces people closer together. The closer the community, the easier for a virus to spread. I would say Racist countries, not racist virus.

        3. The easier for discontent and a desire for better benefits to spread. The perfect breeding ground for malcontents to vote Democrat – or in our case to vote in favour of the kneeler, Starmer.

    2. Apparently it’s Trump’s fault that they’re all so angry.

      Hope the truth comes out, whatever it is.

    1. “The Planning Inspectorate had recommended Transport Secretary Grant Shapps withhold consent”

      Grant Shapps??? AKA Michael “Filthy Rich!” Green? That Grant Shapps?

    2. Evening, William, “A plan to dig a £1.7bn road tunnel near Stonehenge has been approved by the Transport Secretary.”

      An awful lot of money to throw into a money pit.

      Here, we have to rely upon the whim of Mid-Suffolk District Council to withhold permission for 242 Acres of good and viable agricultural land and another 103 acres of the same, being turned into so called ‘solar farms’ in order for each to produce just 49.9Mw of electricity. Note that 50Mw and above have to be approved by the Secretary of State – funny that they are both 49.9Mw!

      Is it a ploy to sneak these through while everyone is diverted with covid and Brexit breakdown?

      1. Common sense would dictate that any road tunnel should detour around the underground Stonehenge site ….

  76. Completely OT.

    Do any NoTTLers do their UK income tax on line? I have always resisted – because of the risk of making life more complicated. Good old pen and ink has served me well since 1968.

    I would like to be able to give it a trial – by doing a dummy tax return, as it were. But apparently the Revenue don’t offer that simple service – you can only do it by signing up – and once you have signed up, you can’t revert to paper.

    So, second question, does anyone know of a website where one can do a dummy run?

    Thanks in advance.

    EDIT – this was a serious question.

    2. I’ve only ever seen one income tax form, Bill. That was around 1978 or 79. My entire working life has been PAYE.

      1. I have been self-employed since 1968. I was employed until early 1975 – but also had Schedule D income…. Hence the return.

      2. I hope that you check at the end of the year.

        MOH says that over half his PAYE returns show that he over paid.

      1. “Although having initially received a sentence of sixteen years, she was required to serve only nineteen months in prison and two months under house arrest. During the trial, a former housekeeper testified that she had heard Helmsley say: “We don’t pay taxes; only the little people pay taxes,”

        She was right.

    5. I do my return online, basically salary and a few dividends and interest, plus some capital gains/writeoffs. I also do my father’s return. He had a very small business and did it on paper until he forgot one day so we had to do it online to remain within the completion deadline. It is quite simple if your affairs are simple but if you stray from the norm, the rules are fiendish but are there to read. For practise you can fill in a return and press the go key and see the result. It is only when you ‘submit’ that it sends it off (not sure if they can have a little peak though!) Have a go, I find it simple. You can print it all off for yr record but I keep my paper workings so that I can remember where it all came from next year, and keep the detail rather than just the gross figures. I imagine if your returns are similar in successive years, they don’t bother you too much.

      1. Thanks, KP. I have never had any trouble with the Revenue throughout my working life. It is just that they take months to reply. And that was before the plague.

        And, as I said, you can only do it online by registering – and, once registered, you cannot revert to paper.

        It the Treasury had an ounce of commonsense – they’d give you the chance to try it out before making an irrevocable decision.

        1. You can buy software for tax returns but I just use that provided by HMRC, perhaps that will provid a method of completion without registering with hmrc first. Don’t know.

        2. You can do it on paper and get the staff to put it online whilst you play with kittens, you will not notice any difference! Actually, what I was doing for my father.

    7. I haven’t done a tax return for donkey’s years. Though I have a “personal tax account” which I waded through last year to claim a (very) small refund.

    8. I’m addicted to my accountant. Not that my pensions etc are that much but 2 are in furrin currency. I’ve been using him as a buffer since I started offshore work where tax was dodged avoided, so I could always blame someone else.

  77. I’ve just been reading some of the so called evidence submitted to US Courts about electoral malpractice and apparently one Republican observer has said that they, “found it odd that only 20% of military votes were going to the candidate who’d dodged the draft five times and who’d called dead American troops ‘losers'”!

          2. Oh, odd, are you sure because Trump also claimed to be the fittest president ever, surely bone spurs would count against that claim?

          3. Come now. 1) You are now stirring the pot for the sake of it. 2) Don’t you think that everyone who might have had to serve alongside him for more than 2 minutes had a lucky escape?

          4. Jennifer, I’m trying to establish why the majority of military votes might not have gone to someone who described dead troops as losers and who received FIVE deferments from the draft.

          5. Not from Norfolk John you’re not; or from anyone else here – because they don’t know the answer. But it should be pointed out that Biden also had an equal number of draft deferments – in his case for asthma.

            So, from the point of view of those serving only the description of dead men as “losers” differentiates between the two.

            My second point stands.

          6. You leave Norfolk out of this, Jennifer, it’s obviously an area you know nothing about but prefer to subscribe to stereotypes

          7. I certainly don’t subscribe to stereotypes. I was, actually, suggesting that Mr Cochrane should back off from tormenting John. I might have expected you to put a nasty construction on it instead.

          8. I find that offensive, Jennifer but I think the same might apply to you and your oh so holy pontifications. As a Norfolk boy, I shall continue to ignore you.

          9. That is rubbish and you know it. Trump merely pointed to the fact that John McCain held no military distinction as had been claimed by ihis team, but was a prisoner for the duration of the conflict. Trump was insensitive but essentially correct. McCain was no war hero as he sought erroneously to portray himself.

          11. So not really “essentially correct” at all – more his usual “open mouth and let belly rumble”.

          13. Stop seeking to make trouble for a change and contribute something positive. You can do it but lapse into shooting from the sidelines instead of being constructive.

            No one on here is obliged to explain their views to you. Instead of asking for explanations from others, why not post ripostes instead. You obviously hold strong views so let rip.

      2. Bush was in the National Guard, but I don’t think he saw active service. George HW Bush flew on raids against the Japanese as a naval pilot.

        1. Think Bush Jnr was Texas National Guard. Home for tea every evening.
          The Kennedys were a long time ago.

          1. Reagan served, as did Carter (submarines), Ford (aboard ship), Nixon (also a sailor), Lyndon B Johnson (he volunteered as an observer on a strike mission). Ike was even longer ago and Truman (the only one to serve in WW1) even longer.

          2. Excellent summary. I’m assuming Trump served as I’ve seen a photo of him in uniform and Vietnam was ‘happening’ when he was of call up age.

          7. He is the Commander-in-Chief, so entitled to wear any uniform he likes.
            No idea how many gold stripes he has on his epaulettes, though.

          8. I read that John Kennedy who was a skipper on a MTB or motor torpedo boat (in our language) was blown out of the water and hitched a ride back to shore on the back of an obliging giant turtle. This was published in one of my old Readers’ Digests so it must be true.

          9. Corrie: The boat was the PT109, and PT109 is the name of the film made by Hollywood with Cliff Robertson starring as JFK. When the boat was blown up JFK’s back was broken, and for the rest of his life he had to live with painkillers and swim in the White House swimming pool daily to try to assuage the pain.

          11. Oh dear, Kim Novak, along with Brigitte Bardot were my two favourite sex dreams when I was a youth of just 16 years.

        2. I believe that he flew 58 combat missions, was shot down on one of them, and was awarded the US DFC – his courage and patriotism are beyond doubt.

    2. Take a look at the bellwether counties. They broke particularly strongly for Donald this election.

      I just posted some analysis and it’s pretty strong statistical evidence that President Trump won and that the Dems therefore cheated in the swing states.

  80. Today is a good day,after nearly 2 months of incredible stress of her job being under threat and facing redundancy in this difficult market my niece has got one of the internal jobs she has been applying for
    Celebrations all round in several households,much wine may be involved
    Edit
    Thanks for all the positive replies,yes she has survived,nay triumphed yet the cruelty and pressure of the process to my mind are unacceptable I must be an old softy

    2. That is great news. I reckon the younger generation will adapt to the new economy because they can.

      The middle aged, folk their fifties, who lose their jobs will find it very difficult to retrain. I was talking with a quantity surveyor earlier today, at the end of his tether and wondering what the hell he will do in the future.

      1. Retraining is one thing, being offered a job when you are over 40 or so is another thing entirely.

        1. Naturally every country is talking about retraining the workforce to take advantage of the information economy. We have the skills to be the next Silicon Valley (East, West, North or south) and take the lead in the new order.

          Still no plumbers, electricians or farmers but we will have millions of skilled IT workers.

          They really need to have a look at IBM and their ongoing workforce reductions in Europe and the US (well anywhere with high wages really).

          1. When I did my agriculture degree, back in the ’70s there were 3 Scottish universities and about 6 in England offering a straightforward BSc in Agriculture.

            No, there are no universities in Scotland (though the amalgamated Scottish Agricultural College does offer a degree course nowadays) and only 2 in England. There are others with offer things like land management, ecology etc etc.

            But to have another generation of educated farmers you need to educate them… in their own subject. There are some decent diploma courses but where the next generation of experimenters is going to come from goodness alone knows. At present the view seems to be that we should retrench, rewild, and begin believing in the supermarket fairy.

          2. I taught at two rural schools, one of which taught rural studies and the other had its own farm. RS disappeared and the farm was destroyed and the land built on.

          3. Just seeing the controls on a modern combine scares me, it is no longer a case of wracking the recalcitrant bit with a big spanner.

            Our local high school has kept a stream for farm kids who have no intention of going to university, they get a more practical hands on education. But who would want to be a farmer nowadays, enormous outlay, very unsocial hours and income dependent on factors outside your control (our farmers can normally manage weather problems but political spats with China or Trump can wipe out markets overnight).

          4. Many of the agricultural colleges which catered for the “more practical side” have also gone over to the eco-warriors.

            If nobody wants to farm, or if nobody is allowed to farm in a productive way, then a very, very large number of people and going to become very, very hungry.

            But at the moment “cheap” is king… heaven help us.

          5. As long as high wages are allied to even higher productivity, that’s good.
            Back in mid 90s, I watched a (Polish) welder in Roermond, Netherlands, laying weld metal at the rate of about 1 metre a second – he was monitoring a welding machine with three triple-wire welding heads. Poetry in motion, so it was. That’s productivity! Problem is, it doesn’t allow for an unskilled, uneducated workforce that Europe is rapidly importing.

          6. I have to admit that I get a certain degree of schadenfreude when I read about home working and green technology etc etc et bluddy cet, knowing that all the woke will suddenly discover that their jobs have been off shored because the new green deals that they are so supportive of have completely priced their parts of the world out of the market place.

      2. Attitude.
        I work in an industry where most people have to re-train themselves at least every ten years or so, or disappear. You just learn new stuff until the day you retire.

    1. Well some in the UK seems to think that all of the fields can be paved over and used for housing,

      Isn’t Indiana republican? Any party line following democrat would support that line of thinking.

      1. In our case Richard, see my earlier post regarding 345 acres of good, viable agricultural land being taken for, oh so green, solar farms.

  82. That’s me for the night, dear gentlefolk. I shall away to my bed and comfort Best Beloved who is suffering from a bad dose of food poisoning – I’m to blame, the chicken wasn’t cooked long enough.

    ‘Til morning lights us again.

  84. November 12th and Christmas commercialism has started already.

    Not just the piles of shop early, save the post office flyers either. I tuned into a US pop music station last night, they are already into their 24 hour s a day Christmas music specials.

    Hello bloody jingle bells.

      1. Oh they go deeper than that. Maybe ten or twelve obnoxious parodies of Christmas. Anyhow that station is off my list for many weeks.

        Looking forward, the local supermarket is advertising hot cross buns this week. Time to nip in and ask why they have that name?

      1. I remember them from so many years ago.

        One week of occasional Christmas songs I could manage but six weeks of unending commercial dross is to much for this mere mortal.

        1. They put a high-quality stereo feed onto the Internet, which is what I listen to. Give it a go!

          They have timed feeds for US east and west coast as well.

          1. You must have missed a few facts and realities.

            How else to explain the instantaneous downvoting of anyone who posts an opinion with which she does not agree.

            She has a screw loose.

  86. How could the ‘bellwether counties’ get it so wrong this time?

    Answer… They didn’t. Here’s statistical evidence that President Donald J Trump won the 2020 election and therefore that the Democrats cheated in the swing states………..

    November 6, 2020

    author: Suzanne Downing

    How could the ‘bellwether counties’ get it so wrong?

    Several counties in America are considered the “bellwethers,” the ones that nearly always vote for the eventual winner of the presidential race. And by “nearly always,” we mean it’s remarkable how accurate they are throughout history.

    This year, the bellwether counties voted heavily for Donald Trump, and for many of them, it appears they have broken their near-perfect records of predicting the winner, if the current trends hold and Biden is elected president.

    Valencia County, New Mexico – perfect record with the electoral college winner since 1952 (longest current perfect streak). 2020: Trump 54%, Biden 44.%
    Porcaro

    Vigo County, Indiana (county seat: Terre Haute) – has had 2 misses (1908, 1952) from 1888 on, and a perfect record since 1956. From 1960 to 2004, Vigo County has been within 3 percent of the national presidential vote every election. 2020: Trump – 56.20%, Biden – 41.45%

    Westmoreland County, Virginia (county seat: Montross) – two misses since 1928 (in 1948 and 1960), perfect since 1964. 2020: Not posted.

    Ottawa County, Ohio (county seat: Port Clinton) – one miss since 1948 (in 1960), perfect since 1964. 2020: Trump – 60.8%, Biden – 37.7%.

    Wood County, Ohio (county seat: Bowling Green) – one miss since 1964 (in 1976), perfect since 1980. 2020: Trump – 52.86%, Biden – 45.24%

    Kent County, Delaware – two misses since 1928 (in 1948 and in 1992). 2020: Not posted.

    Coös County, New Hampshire (county seat: Lancaster) – two misses since 1892 (in 1968 and 2004) 2020: Trump – 52.2, Biden – 46.2%.

    Essex County, Vermont – one miss since 1964 (in 1976), perfect since 1980. 2020: Trump – 57.10%, Biden – 37.91%.

    Juneau County, Wisconsin – one miss since 1952 (in 1960), perfect since 1964. 2020: Trump – 8,749, Biden – 4,747.

    Sawyer County, Wisconsin – one miss since 1952 (in 1960), perfect since 1964. 2020: Trump – 5,883, Biden – 4,494.

    Sargent County, North Dakota (county seat: Forman) – one miss since 1948 (in 1988). 2020: Trump – 59.96%, Biden – 35.05%

    Blaine County, Montana (county seat: Chinook) – one miss since 1916 (in 1988). 2020: Biden – 51%, Trump – 47%

    Clallam County, Washington – two misses (1968, 1976) since 1920. 2020: Biden – 51.87%, Trump – 45.78%.

    Stanislaus County, California (county seat Modesto) – one miss since 1972 (in 2016). 2020: Biden – 52.81%, Trump – 45.21%.

    Ventura County, California – two misses since 1920 (in 1976 and 2016). 2020: Biden – 60.32%, Trump – 37.78%.

    Merced County, California (county seat Merced) – one miss since 1972 (in 2016). 2020: Biden – 55.20%, Trump – 42.30%.

    Hidalgo County, New Mexico (county seat: Lordsburg) – one miss since 1928 (in 1968), perfect since 1972. 2020: Trump – 56.7%, Biden – 41.7%.

    Bexar County, Texas (county seat: San Antonio) – two misses since 1932 (in 1968 and 2016). 2020: Biden – 127,507, Trump – 89,991.

    Val Verde County, Texas – two misses since 1924 (in 1968 and 2016). 2020: Trump – 7839, Biden – 6401

    Hillsborough County, Florida (county seat: Tampa) – two misses since 1928 (in 1992 and 2016). 2020: Biden – 52.69%, Trump – 45.87%

    Calhoun County, South Carolina – one miss since 1972 (in 1980), perfect since 1984. 2020: Trump – 4,302, Biden – 3903.

    Colleton County, South Carolina – one miss since 1968 (in 1980), perfect since 1984. 2020: Trump – 54.12%, Biden – 45.20%.

    Washington County, Maine – one miss since 1972 (in 1976), perfect since 1980. 2020: Trump – 59.1%, Biden – 38.5.

    While these are the top bellwether counties, there are many more that are considered to be predictive. The entire list is found at Wikipedia.

    1. This to my mind is the strongest evidence that there was large-scale tampering. But proving it is something else.

      1. Suggest you follow Donald’s tweets. He’s explaining to the nation what’s happening.

        He’s got this. Don’t worry.

        1. I hope so Polly!
          It’s interesting that Obama is leaping in so strongly to Biden’s defence, insulting Trump. I wonder if he is worried because as that whistle-blower said, it started under Obama?
          There was been a very cosy clique of crooks at the head of the Democrat party for a long, long time.
          It would be very good if it were exposed, but they will fight like cornered rats to prevent that.

          Trump needs the Republicans behind him, but I wonder how many of them would be scared of investigations into sleaze and fraud?
          If ever there was a moment for truth and justice to prevail, this is it.

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