Thursday 15 October: A ‘circuit breaker’ risks triggering an endless cycle of lockdowns

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its comments facility (now reinstated, but not as good as ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/10/14/lettersa-circuit-breaker-risks-triggering-endless-cycle-lockdowns/

740 thoughts on “Thursday 15 October: A ‘circuit breaker’ risks triggering an endless cycle of lockdowns”

  1. A vicious cycle of lockdowns would condemn Britain to terminal decline. 14 October 2020.

    A vicious circle of stop-go lockdowns would be a catastrophic indictment of Government policy, an admission of total defeat, a victory of fear and emotion over reason, an appalling signal that Britain has now become so culturally dysfunctional, so decadent as to be utterly incapable of any rational cost-benefit analysis.

    We would no longer be a free society tolerating an exceptional, temporary shutdown to allow our scandalously unprepared establishment to learn to manage a terrible situation. Instead, we would have transitioned to a world of permanent emergency, a wartime society whereby individual rights and lives were permanently suppressed for an ill-defined, ever-shifting “national interest”.

    Morning everyone. Wrong tense! It should all be written in the present! This is things as they are!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/14/vicious-cycle-lockdowns-would-condemn-britain-terminal-decline/

  2. Times Radio have excelled themselves this morning, they think Trumps nomination for the Supreme Court is really important to us here in the UK, why do we get so much in depth news from the USA and from nowhere else?

    1. The turkey is not just for Christmas – it has a use by date of Thursday 2 May 2024.

      1. When he fails to deliver a meaningful Brexit combined with unemployment of 3M plus by the end of this year, he will be lucky to see 2nd May 2021 as PM.
        Then the Conservative Party will elect another puppet of the EU to replace him.

        1. He’s in enough trouble as it is. If he caves in on Brexit then surely it’s only a matter of time before he’s ousted.

          ‘Morning, Oldie.

          1. Morning Hugh, watch the farce play out in dribs and drabs throughout the rest of the year with Covid-19 being used as a distraction.
            I can’t see him lasting, indeed at times I think he has found the job too much for him and leaving No10 is what he really wants.
            He just wants to deliver Brexit as his legacy, the problem will be his version of Brexit is not what was promised over 4 years ago.

      2. He has, in fact, a use by date of 12 December 2024. It is unlikely that any government will choose another winter election – but their maximum term doesn’t end till then.

  5. SIR – I have travelled on my local Southeastern train between Sheerness and Sittingbourne a dozen times in recent weeks, and have not seen a guard check tickets or masks.

    People often sit in first class, with their feet on the seats opposite and without wearing a mask. Needless to say, when they are confronted, they respond with a barrage of abuse.

    Southeastern puts us at risk by not checking for face coverings, and loses money by failing to check tickets.

    Rev Cindy Kent
    Minster on Sea, Kent

    Telephone your cousin Clark in Metropolis and get him to sort out the louts.

    1. Should it not be “Minister” on Sea?

      That the woman should actually give her Christian nae as “Cindy” must mean she is a Doll.

          1. Oops! Well, it certainly wasn’t Michael Howard, John. (Am I right to call you John instead of D in K?)

          2. You are, as is often the case, quite correct, m’dear.

            Although Michael did have his funny side. He was our MP.

        1. Morning, Tom. I bet that bint has that “special” pious voice when she is opening her mouth in church. One hears it all the time on Choral Evensong.

  6. ‘Morning, Peeps.

    From humble beginnings came a great leader and highly skilled pilot. In my time with the Air Training Corps I met him briefly at Bisley and was immediately impressed by his interest and his ‘can do’ attitude. I know that he was greatly admired and respected as AOC Air Cadets in the early 80s:

    Air Commodore Ken Goodwin, pilot who thrilled crowds across Europe with his aerobatic displays – obituary
    Irreverent and high-spirited, he always put on a spectacular show – a report of one said the crowd ‘gasped and gasped again in admiration’

    By
    Telegraph Obituaries
    14 October 2020 • 4:47pm

    Ken Goodwin
    Air Commodore Ken Goodwin, who has died aged 92, was a Cold War fighter pilot whose brilliant solo aerobatic displays attracted widespread acclaim.

    When he joined 118 Squadron in July 1955, the squadron, based at Jever in northern Germany, had recently been re-equipped with the Hawker Hunter. His skill soon attracted the attention of his commanding officer, and he was encouraged to develop a six-minute individual display of aerobatics.

    This consisted of a roll immediately after take-off and straight into a loop. After a series of turns and rolls he made a high-speed inverted fly-past and climb and, after a hesitation roll, he made an inverted approach before landing.

    “All in all, it was fairly spectacular by the time I finished,” Goodwin commented: “At least I am told it was – naturally I’ve never seen it myself.”

    His meticulous execution of the display resulted in his selection as the official aerobatic pilot for the whole of the Second Tactical Air Force in Germany. Over the next two years he performed at displays across Europe, where he was heralded as a brilliant pilot in the many newspaper articles describing his exploits.

    After two years with 118 Squadron he was awarded the AFC in recognition of his achievements, and the widespread publicity for the RAF it had attracted across Europe.

    The son of a First World War veteran who had served in the Coldstream Guards, Kenneth Joseph Goodwin was born at St Pancras, London, on May 2 1928. In August 1940 he and his two sisters were evacuated to the US, where they remained for five years in the foster care of Robert and Kay Fisher at their home in Pittsford, New York.

    Goodwin was determined to follow his elder brother, who had served throughout the war as a pilot. Initially there was no requirement for new pilots, so Goodwin enlisted as an airman in 1946 and trained as an airframe fitter. The seeds of the precision that would be the hallmark of his time as an aerobatic pilot were sown on the parade ground, where he excelled at drill. He was selected to join the Ceremonial Unit at RAF Halton, regarded as a “cream” posting, and he was on parade at the Lord Mayor’s Show, the Cenotaph Parade, and the British Legion Service of Remembrance at the Albert Hall.

    Finally, in July 1949 he was commissioned and began his training as a pilot. After gaining his wings he joined 92 Squadron at RAF Linton-on-Ouse near York, which was equipped with the Meteor fighter. He was soon selected to be the squadron’s aerobatic pilot, and he later led the formation team. He was to develop his skill as a solo aerobatic pilot when he was posted to 118 Squadron.

    Goodwin returned from Germany at the end of 1957, and joined the Central Fighter Establishment (CFE), where he and his fellow pilots devised tactics and evaluated a range of fighters. When the Lightning entered service at the end of 1959, the CFE pilots were the first to fly the new aircraft and devise a training plan for pilots destined to join squadrons.

    He was appointed to the Lightning Conversion Unit. Initially, there were no dual-control versions of the supersonic fighter so pilots making their first flight were “chased” by Goodwin and his fellow instructors. In July 1962 the two-seat aircraft had arrived and was much in demand to fly senior officers and “celebrities” anxious to join the “Thousand Miles Per Hour Club”.

    Goodwin developed a solo aerobatic routine in the Lightning. After a 10-minute display in front of 140,000 people at RAF Middleton St George near Darlington, the Northern Echo reported: “The crowd gasped and gasped again with admiration as they were treated to the display of their lives.”

    After a period in Bangkok, and at the HQ of the Far East Air Force in Singapore, Goodwin assumed command of 74 (Tiger) Squadron at RAF Leuchars in Fife. Flying from their Scottish base, the squadron’s Lightnings regularly intercepted Russian aircraft flying near UK airspace.

    On one occasion, during an exercise in Cyprus, the RAF station commander complained about the noise of the aircraft. A few days later, he and his officers were at a local party to celebrate Christmas when one of Goodwin’s pilots gave an impromptu flying display. His finale, a rocket-like climb, could be heard across the island.

    Goodwin, in full dress uniform, was summoned to see the station commander, but luckily the commander-in-chief, an Army general, was attending a party nearby and had seen the performance; he immediately contacted the RAF commander, congratulating him on the “bloody good show from the RAF”.

    In May 1967 74 Squadron was reassigned to RAF Tengah in Singapore. On June 4 Goodwin led the first section, and over the next few days, all 13 aircraft flew via staging posts, in company with Victor air-to-air refuelling tankers, arriving in Singapore to provide air defence for the region.

    Goodwin’s high spirits and occasional irreverence often brought him into conflict with his senior officers. A fine pianist, he was always game for a party, and he soon established a special relationship with the local Tiger Brewery, which was equally anxious to embrace the arrival of the RAF’s “Tiger” squadron as a marvellous promotional opportunity.

    After two successful years, Goodwin left the squadron in March 1969. At his farewell dinner he was presented with a beer tankard with an inscription of his trademark catchphrase, “Don’t Worry About a Thing”.

    In 1972 he was appointed to command RAF Wattisham in Suffolk, the home of two Lightning squadrons. He was hugely popular with the officers and airmen, and he remained fully current as a fighter pilot.

    After appointments at RAF Strike Command and as Air Adviser in Ottawa, he became the Deputy Captain of the Queen’s Flight. His final appointment was as Air Officer Commanding Air Cadets, a period he enjoyed immensely. He was appointed CBE.

    After retiring in July 1982 he was the commander of the south-west region of the Air Training Corps.

    Goodwin was a great motivator and an excellent mentor who ensured that his charges made the very best of their abilities.

    He enjoyed golf and was captain at the Burnham and Berrow Club. He was president of the 74 Squadron Association, and the “Jever Steam Laundry”, whose aim is “to promote the irreverent camaraderie that epitomised the vigorous approach to both professional excellence in the fighter role and to the riotously enjoyable living at RAF Jever during the golden age of jet fighter operations”.

    Ken Goodwin married Sue in 1961. She died in 2019, and he is survived by their son, a former RAF Tornado pilot, and daughter.

    Ken Goodwin, born May 2 1928, died September 5 2020

    1. I suspect that the unfailingly high standard of writing in obituaries comes from the authors actually having to research their subjects, giving them a level of empathy and understanding they wouldn’t get from merely regurgitating a bland press statement.

  7. Good moaning.
    If Dr. Zhivago is correct, in Stalin’s Russia there was no limit on mourners at a funeral.

      2. My comment was trigged by Dr. Z’s funeral at the end of the film – 1930s, I would think.
        (They don’t make films like that now.)
        Morning, C1.

        1. Indeed they don’t, Annie. If they were to produce a re-make, then the characters played by Julie Christie and Geraldine Chaplin would end up having a lesbian affair. (On Monday I watched GAJILLIONNAIRE, a very impressive new film spoiled by the ending in which the two leading female characters embraced – and then started a totally superfluous snogging session.) AAARGH! (Good morning, btw.)

  8. Morning all

    SIR – Sir Keir Starmer’s call for a “circuit break” of two or three weeks (report, October 14) fails to take account of the fact that, if you do one, there will then be another – and another. And so it goes on.

    We need to be able to live with coronavirus on a day-to-day basis, taking all possible precautions to protect ourselves and others.

    Phil Bull

    Tenbury Wells, Worcestershire

    SIR – The Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies said that a national lockdown of several weeks was needed to “put the epidemic back” by at least 28 days.

    Would the National Institute for Health and Care Excellence permit the NHS to use a drug that might extend the life of a few patients by a month – but at a cost equivalent to hundreds of thousands of jobs?

    Julian Tope

    Portishead, Somerset

    SIR – When the Dutch boy removed his finger from the dyke, the problem returned.

    Diann Pollock

    Upton, Wirral

    SIR – Two government scientific advisers have suggested that a circuit break could save between 3,000 and 107,000 lives.

    Labour has now opportunistically adopted the mantra that it is following the science, after the Prime Minister’s first tentative steps to look at the wider picture. However, even to a layman, a difference of 3,500 per cent between estimates suggests guesswork rather than science.

    Al Matthews

    Cheltenham, Gloucestershire

    SIR – Unless I am missing something, there seems to be a significant disconnect between the statistics on Covid and the country’s response to it.

    Looking around when out, it’s like a post-Apocalyptic scenario. Yes, social distancing is essential, but we have allowed ourselves to be frightened into believing that even inadvertent contact with others poses a serious threat. Statistics tell us that, across all age groups, the Covid survival rate is extremely high, and that even people in my own age group (80-plus) have a 90 per cent chance of recovery.

    I suspect that protecting the NHS is still the Government’s main driver, even though it has had months to prepare for the current situation. The performance of ministers contrasts sharply with the awe-inspiring devotion shown by NHS staff”

    Colin Drury

    Dinas Powys, Glamorgan

  9. Good morning, all. Decidedly cold this morning – strong north-easterly blowing. To market etc

    Play nicely.

  10. BREAKING NEWS FROM EUROPE

    As fear of a lockdown after a second wave of Covid-19 sweeps Germany, supermarkets report there has been mass panic-buying of sausage and cheese. In a statement earlier this morning, Chancellor Angela Merkel said, “It is as I feared – the wurst-kase scenario”

    ….. Ich hol meinen Mantel …..

    1. The Guardian’s tuppence worth:
      “Four more years of Donald Trump …
      … is a real possibility. America faces an epic choice in November, and the result will have global repercussions for democracy, progress and solidarity for generations. Transatlantic ties, superpower relations and the climate emergency are all in the balance. Abortion, healthcare access, gender equality, and racial justice in the US are at risk…”
      Yippee, all for the good of civilisation as we know it.

    2. Yes, Zuckerberg and the Guardian hate President Trump but there is someone else who was previously in the UK and who has done nearly as much damage to the country as Tony Blair and his ‘human rights’ wife. I hardly need say that his name is Nick Clegg. He is a champagne socialist and, wanting to enrich himself even further, he moved to the US to ‘work’ with Facebook and is now “President, Global Affairs and Communications”, no less, on a salary and perks of $millions.

      What was Clegg’s role in this censorship against anyone who disagrees with socialism and communism? Obviously he is a fan of Biden.

      He should be kicked out of the US and sent to Venezuela. As for Facebook, its leaders should be in ‘held to account’, preferably in prison. They are always bleating about ‘free speech’ but only when it suits the Left!

      1. It’s actions like this from FB which has President Trump looking at revoking Section 230.

        As I understand it; newspapers/tv can ‘skew’ the opinions they present to the public, short of libel/slander, as they are under no obligation to print anything other than their owners viewpoint.

        FB, Twitter et al, as free and open platforms, are supposed to be able to present wider opinions as the supporting platforms are deemed not to be the publishers. Section 230 allowed that even a monitored platform may let the occasional errant comment slip through and the platform itself would not be held responsible.

        However, now that e.g. FB are self-censoring their output, they are acting like the mainstream media and should be held to account in the same way, i.e. without the ‘protection’ of Section 230.

        If Nick Clegg and co want to act as ‘editors’, they should also face the same responsibilities as their media colleagues.

  12. It would appear that the 15th October Brexit deadline was like all the others, very flexible…

    2. Morning sos Radio 4 News reporting that Boris will wait the outcome of the EU countries meeting and then “reflect” on their decision which should come within days. France seems to be potentially obstructive as ever, thank goodness..

      1. I suspect that they won’t respond with much more than a proposal to kick the can further down the road.

        1. As do many, Sos, but all this is just supposition. And I note that the weasel words “The Government has already done this several times” are continuing to be used. Well, Theresa May certainly did go back on her word, and the initial minority Government of Boris Johnson was forced to by an anarchic Parliament supported by the much not-at-all missed Speaker did. But the way it is written (“The Government has”) simply suggests that Boris is an appeaser and the jury is out on that, notwithstanding his appalling handling of the Corona virus pandemic.

          1. As I say, I admire your faith. I go on what I have seen.

            Show me any area where we can say with absolute certainty that the Government’s negotiators have been successful in putting Britain into a better place than we were.

            As far as I can see we are no further forward than we were when Boris was elected.

        2. I think they want to push the can down the road past the US Election in the hope that Biden wins and the Dems can be persuaded to pile on the pressure.

    3. This is the kind of “opinion printed as hard facts” article which I find increasingly annoying, Sos. I have now reached the point of total disillusion with Boris, but I will not base my final verdict on him after reading that the talks will be extended “according to the opinion of one source”. The headline is a scurrilous one. The final proof (for me at least) is the final agreement reached by the end of this year.

      1. I don’t know which article you are referring to.

        My concern is the total lack of hard information.

        The fact that the UK has blustered and not acted on the threats, but merely carried on, suggests that the EU will assume we’re still bluffing.

        My recollection of your stances since the beginning has been that we should trust the politician in charge to get us a good deal, Cameron then May now Boris. So far we have been sorely disappointed. I admire your faith, but I lost mine years ago.

        1. Sos, I have never admired Cameron (“The Babbling Poltroon” © Bill Thomas). And I was definitely misled by Theresa May, which I freely admit. Finally, I have never subscribed to the view that “we should trust the politician in charge to get us a good deal”. All politicians should be treated with scepticism (that is my view, especially since my being hoodwinked by Theresa May). But how Boris Johnson was able to take over from Theresa May, re-establish (despite Parliamentary opposition) a friendly working relationship with “our friends” in the EU, and finally get the opposition parties to agree to allow him to call an election, which moved his minority government to one with a majority of 80, did indeed impress me. Since then most things have gone downhill, especially with his Covid-19 strategy. However, he still continues to state that he will stick to his “red lines” in current EU negotiations – I am prepared to wait and see before losing my faith in him entirely.

          PS – The article I read was in Breitbart. Headline was “UK drops Boris Johnson’s Thursday Brexit deadline, talks will continue into November, Report:”, and on reading the actual article it states “The Government is so desperate… it will abandon yet another Brexit deadline… sources claim” [My bold emphasis]. It then goes on to state: “But according to an unnamed source reported to Bloomberg, the UK is now ready to abandon that deadline and continue talks.” How on earth does that kind of reporting of the current situation do anything to help our negotiations? It simply serves to sell more newspapers and – more seriously – undermine our faith in our government.

          PPS: If the UK walks away without an agreement this week the EU will (in my own opinion) shout loud and wide that the UK is being unreasonable and unwilling to negotiate seriously. If, on the other hand we see our talks through to the wire (11pm on December the 31st) then “our friends” will be deprived of that propaganda weapon. I am not saying that I trust Boris – as you know I do indeed now have more reservations about him than I did at the start of this year – but I am still prepared to wait and see; after all there are only fewer than 77 days to the end of the year.

          1. One aspect of modern politics that I despise is that almost without exception policy etc is leaked by “sources” well before it is formally announced.

            I believe that the government itself is the “source” of 90%+ of what is put out, either testing the water or seeking consensus and undermining objections, be it health, budget, Bamery, Brexit or policing.
            I no longer trust Johnson or any of his team

          2. Why would Johnson or any of his team “put out” that the UK government is about to “cave in”, Sos? I would have thought that those leaking this so-called “news” are obdurate Remainers.

          3. To allow the anger to subside and the protests to reduce a bit before the actual announcement. It gives the populace time to get used to the idea.

            How many times have we seen policy leaked before it is announced:
            Lockdown tiering, compulsory masking, numbers allowed to congrgate, testing and eventually vaccinations
            How many budget cuts tax increases etc get announced via the press, not Parliament.
            Since Blair and Campbell it’s how news has come to be managed.

            They are merely gauging how much they can get away with, before they drop the bombshell.

          5. That doesn’t rule out the government, Elsie! Many of those who jumped on the leave bandwagon did so because they thought they were on the winning side (as, of course, they were). Conviction politics is a thing of the past. I would hazard a guess that most of those who stood for Parliament in the recent election had supported remain, either covertly or openly, but now were portraying themselves as leavers.

  13. Robert Tombs and Graham Gudgin
    Brexiteers beware – a bad deal is still a real risk
    15 October 2020, 7:00am

    The UK’s negotiating efforts with the EU this year have been dramatically better than under the May administration. But a bad deal is still a real risk as a result of political and time pressures.

    Some recent reports suggest the UK may be flirting with dangerous compromises in key areas. The temptation to give ground just to get a deal over the line must be avoided. The government needs to remember that its key aim – re-establishing the UK as a genuinely independent state – can be met by simply leaving the transition period without a deal. Moreover, the government should bear in mind how limited the benefits of a thin trade deal with the EU are, especially one hedged around with various EU-friendly restrictions on UK action.

    At the start of the year, chief UK negotiator David Frost laid out clearly that the government’s key aim was to ‘recover our political and economic independence in full’. Up to now, this goal has been pursued by UK negotiators with considerable tenacity. But as the year draws to a close, and with it the ‘transition period’ before the UK fully exits the EU’s system of laws and regulations, there are some signs that the UK government’s resolve is fraying and that it is flirting with dangerous compromises in some key areas.

    The government has consistently argued that it would prefer to strike a free trade deal with the EU, but not one that sacrificed the UK’s freedom of action in areas like competition policy and regulation. In addition, restoring full control over the UK’s fishing resources has been a red line. But there are signs of wobbling in all these areas.

    Governance: The UK argued at the start for a suite of agreements with the EU rather than a single one. A key reason for this was to prevent the EU trying to force agreements on its terms in specific sectors by threatening to collapse the whole of any agreement.

    Unfortunately, the UK has already moved towards the EU’s position here, allowing areas like transport and fishing to be linked to trade.

    State aid: Some of the proposed concessions to the EU in this area – for example in agreeing to establish a strong national regulator for state aid – are not a big problem. But the UK has also reportedly agreed to consider enshrining in a deal arrangements that go beyond those normal for an FTA.

    There is talk of including some ‘high level principles’ – a slippery formula (how will they be drawn up? How governed?). More worrying still is the potential for each side to unilaterally retaliate against perceived breaches of state aid rules – before any arbitration and also against firms in unrelated sectors. This must be resisted.

    On the ‘level playing field’: The UK has previously set out that it would accept so-called non-regression clauses in an FTA which would mean not rolling back existing levels of environmental and social/labour protections. This is reasonable.

    But recent talk has been of this ‘floor’ for such standards being ‘moveable’. This looks dangerously close to the EU’s long-standing aim to get a ‘ratchet’ clause into any agreement forcing the UK to keep in step with its regulations to avoid rising trade barriers.

    Supposedly, such rises in the floor would have to be mutually agreed but in practice it is easy to see how the EU would use this route to place endless pressure on the UK to align or lose ‘market access’.

    On the Northern Ireland protocol: While the government seems to have persuaded the EU to accept that requiring NI firms to complete exit declarations for sales to the rest of the UK isn’t necessary, this is a small concession.

    Much more worrying is that there is no agreement on exempting most GB sales to NI from potential tariffs and regulatory checks – preparations for much-expanded checks on food products entering NI are going ahead. The EU is trying to get the UK to agree to define which goods moving from GB to NI are ‘at risk’ of crossing the NI border to Ireland (and so become subject to the EU external tariff) based on differences between the EU and UK external tariffs on the goods in question. This would be a massive disincentive to the UK lowering external tariffs on items highly protected in the EU and on the UK signing new trade deals.

    On fishing: The government has reportedly floated the possibility of phasing in higher UK fishing quotas (and lower EU quotas) over time. This is again reasonable. But there are worrying signs of wobbling over the key issue of moving to a system of zonal attachment to calculate the split of catches between the UK and EU fleets.

    It is also essential that the UK government does not carry over any of the hugely damaging fisheries management policies of the EU CFP into any phase-in period – these management policies threaten to force much of the UK fleet out of business and leave the UK unable to take advantage of greater allowable catches.

    On top of the above points, we should be concerned about the government’s position on SPS regulations (covering animal and plant health) and financial services regulation. These are areas where there is much to be gained by diverging from EU regulations yet we hear little about this. Will the government keep the status quo largely in place to try to push forward agreement in other areas? If so, we should be concerned.

    It’s also notable the UK government has allowed timetable slippage to occur – threatening to halt talks without major progress but not following through on this. The latest so-called deadline is 15 October, but few in the EU believe this is a real deadline, unsurprisingly given the previous experiences in this area.

    The concern is that a combination of time pressure and political pressure – the latter made much more acute by the ongoing coronavirus crisis which is also arguably a crisis of government credibility – may tempt the UK government into making a rushed and bad deal.

    Such a deal might feature a lot of highly damaging ‘small print’ that effectively locks the UK into following EU rules – backdoor dynamic alignment. A bad deal might also provide multiple avenues for the EU to pressure the UK into closer alignment over time, for example by fomenting endless disputes in areas like state aid and the level playing field and using unilateral retaliation clauses to close off UK market access one sector at a time.

    We have been here before, notably in the shape of the Northern Ireland Protocol which contains a number of damaging clauses that UK ministers do not at first appear to have fully understood the significance of.

    Overall, it’s quite easy to imagine the government signing up to something that appears at face value to be broadly in line with its avowed aims but on closer inspection is nothing of the sort.

    The government and MPs need to remember two things. First, the goal of re-establishing the UK as a fully independent state can be achieved merely by exiting the transition period at the end of the year. No negotiations or further agreements are needed for this.

    Second, the benefits of the kind of free trade deal that is being worked on are, for the UK, quite small compared to trading on WTO rules:

    – The EU’s average tariff on UK exports under WTO rules will be around three per cent. This is very low. By way of comparison, before the UK joined the EU in 1973, the average tariff was around 11 per cent and much higher for many sectors.

    – Even with an FTA, some UK goods will not qualify for zero tariffs when entering the EU. Because the EU is resisting ‘cumulation’, which allows inputs from third countries with which the UK and EU have FTAs can be counted as local content, some UK-made goods will not have enough local content to qualify (via ‘rules of origin’ thresholds) for zero tariffs.

    – Rules of origin compliance costs, which firms must undertake to qualify for zero tariffs, will also reduce the benefit of zero tariffs. In a few cases, they may be high enough to cancel out any benefit from having zero tariffs versus just paying the WTO tariff.

    – An FTA with the EU will do nothing to ease possible border congestion. This is an incredibly important point. New border systems including checks, paperwork, and IT systems, will all be coming in regardless of whether an FTA is agreed. All the FTA would do is remove tariffs – which are anyway paid electronically and so have little or no part to play in defining border costs.

    – An FTA with the EU will also do little or nothing to reduce other non-tariff barriers to trade – these will be much the same as under WTO rules. Indeed, the EU seems very keen to ensure this is so, its refusal to agree mutual recognition of conformity assessment for goods (which avoids double testing), in defiance of WTO guidelines, being a good example.

    – The proposed FTA will not offer much on services – the UK’s strongest sector – beyond standard WTO commitments.

    – It is the EU that benefits most from free trade in goods, running as it does a huge trade surplus with the UK. The UK can quite easily redirect its spending – on food, cars and other major items that constitute this surplus – elsewhere.

    So, what would a bad deal look like? Its key component would be a thin FTA with no third country cumulation, no MRA on conformity assessment, no significant customs cooperation arrangements, and nothing of substance for services.

    In addition, it would include a failure to exempt most GB-NI goods from tariffs and checks, the UK agreeing to maintain SPS and financial services rules very close to EU norms, onerous level playing field conditions and backdoor alignment of state aid rules. These add-ons would be quite enough to cancel out the minor benefit of zero tariffs versus the low average EU WTO tariff.

    We should also look out for a bad deal on fishing that preserves key parts of the Common Fisheries Policy and a governance mechanism for the whole deal that allows the EU to retaliate unilaterally and disproportionately to perceived breaches of the deal and even to collapse it entirely based on disagreements in one small part of the overall package.

    Finally, look to see just how difficult it might be for the UK to exit such a deal – does it include standard exit clauses allowing the deal to be dumped after say 12 months? What other costs might such an exit trigger?

    How should we know if a bad deal is on the way? Watch the political briefings and spin lines from pliant MPs. Lots of references to ‘sensible compromises’, ‘middle ways’, ‘balanced agreements’, ‘getting Brexit done’ and mentions of the background of the coronavirus epidemic should set alarm bells ringing.

    A version of this article was published on Briefings for Brexit

    1. There is no possibility of the UK ever being an “independent state” while being controlled by the UN.

      The EU is yesterday’s story. The billionaire elite has moved on to much greater ambitions.

      1. I said this right from the start, that they would never let us leave the EU unless they were sure they had us bound another way.

    2. As our negotiators are, hopefully fully aware of these points, one must assume that a “no deal” arrangement is to be preferred.
      However, we need to keep in mind that every one of the negotiators and every member of the Government, and every MP has no experience of doing anything without EU permission.
      I would say that it is certain that we will cave in , and remain shackled to the EU forever. Subordinated without any representation.
      Does anyone have the guts to look to the wider world? To the Commonwealth we so miserably deserted, to the expanding economies of South America?

    3. As the Good Book says, Citroen: “Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian” to lose total faith in Boris. I am waiting until the very end of the year (and keeping my fingers tightly crossed).

      1. Good morning m’dear, I hope you’re keeping well!
        Yes.
        I got the shuttering off yesterday and it looks ok.
        I now need to tidy up the area ready for the next length of footings to be dug out etc.
        I’ll be off to Matlock in a short while to pick up a couple of 45° bends for the downpipe of the shed guttering, which I plan fitting when I get home, then begin the great tidy up and ready for getting a start made on laying the concrete blocks.
        I had a ton bag of ballast for the next lot of concrete delivered yesterday which now needs shovelling into small bags to be humped up to the garden, but I’m not in any rush to get that done!

  16. Using the Public Order Act to police public debate. Spiked. 14 October 2020.

    Whenever we argue that the right to be offensive is a central tenet of genuinely free speech, somebody will insist this cannot mean the right to incite hatred and violence. Yet that reasonable-sounding rider can itself disguise a growing danger to free speech. In the UK, the widening definition of what incitement means is being used to police what we are permitted to say, on pain of police action. The latest case involving the historian Dr David Starkey illustrates what is at stake.

    The police, as we can see pretty much every day, are abandoning their traditional role of catching criminals and are now evolving into a Cultural Marxist organisation primarily concerned with thought crime and suppressing dissent. The Stasi by another name. This is just one small change. Education has become indoctrination and Government oppressive and dictatorial while the Globalists wait in the wings to take over with the promise of serfdom. The most depressing aspect of all this is the lack of alternative. Things will almost certainly become worse. The Jews in Nazi Germany could escape to a free UK and the inhabitants of the Gulag dream of a democratic United States. No such places now exist. The whole world is shrouded in oppression of one form or another.

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/10/14/using-the-public-order-act-to-police-public-debate/

  17. 324633+ up ticks,
    Morning Each,
    As with coronavirus and chasing the unwanted deal with the brussels enema is going to be a political ongoing controlling / manipulating factor.

    Personally I depend a lot on internal humour but for many it must be like
    arising and consuming a large piece of political rhetorical ex-lax day in day out.
    (another form of incarceration, tied to the bog)
    My way would be to build a new party say on the Veterans & peoples party
    or the like, with a military type party backbone and a magnet for the youth.

    A Gerard Batten ( real UKIP leader) manifesto as in a manifesto that fulfils
    what it states, this to my mind has never been tried before with current
    governance party’s.

    Today’s real dangers are in continuing to support & vote for an anti United Kingdom political three party coalition, but in saying that we seemed to have found a way to live with that as it slowly destroys a nation,these past
    four decade.

      1. 324633+ up ticks,
        Morning PP,
        Looks the part & gives the ovis an interest in playing “Party first”

        1. I think NOTTL government by decree would work well.

          After all, in a sense, it does already!

    2. Morning all.
      The problem is Ogga, that any one these days between 12 and 30 already know everything about everything.

  18. Looking at the National Grid dashboard this morning power generation seems to be coping adequately with needs by deploying all forms it. Relying on just one form of generation as a base load seems pure folly particularly when the wind drops.

    Bit dull today.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1ee64199d1366a04c541bb42a6a13fda60a87ef4a1220c4f7aa0cb8a7e6be82c.jpg

    https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/oct/14/national-grid-warns-of-short-supply-of-electricity-over-next-few-days

    2. Nuclear power from France is to provide backup when required. Can we rely on the French? I think not.

  21. Short but apt.

    Sir,
    When the boy removed his finger from the dyke the problem returned

    Diann Pollock
    Upton Wirral

    1. When that little boy removed his finger from the dyke, was it soon replaced by the finger of another dyke?

      2. Morning Grizzly – I deliberately used a small d in dyke to avoid misinterpretation. I failed.

          1. Yes NtN and good afternoon. Twixt thee and me, I missed out Dutch before boy in the short letter. I must go and self flagellate.

  22. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a43212458dde708c526103ba89ea507401be6ca46558bcf79771f22686c490fc.png Idiot! Does this clown not realise that noon is the middle of the day (daylight hours) and midnight is the centre point of the hours of darkness?

    The only sensible strategy is keeping to GMT all year round: messing about with clocks is inane and spurious. Why don’t you just set your alarm clock an hour earlier and work a 8–4 day instead of a 9–5? And if you start to whinge about that just realise this: that is precisely what you are doing during artificial BST, you muppet.

    1. I’m guessing the clown gets paid for this. (I have not read it). These arguments get rehearsed very year. All I would say is that when I was working on exports to Europe we arrived in the office an hour earlier when our customers on the Continong were an hour ahead of UK time (GMT or BST).
      Not difficult.

    3. Every time someone mentions “daylight saving” … I ask them where I can find the daylight bank? I’ve never received an answer.

      Years ago I read a novel which included a small fragment about a sundial – it kept good time… “except being an hour behind – she going by God’s time and we having to go by Government’s” (for non-believers God may be replaced by Nature, governments we know about).

      I hate the clock changes, it takes me weeks to get back into any sort of rhythm, especially in spring. My body runs on GMT.

    4. He’s clearly not an early riser then. I remember the ghastly Heath experiment of summer time in winter, and arriving at school just as it was getting light – and that was in the south of England!

    5. Turning the clocks forward every year makes no sense to me. There are only so many hours of daylight and no daylight “saving” will increase them. If you cut a piece off one end of a rug and sew it onto the other, you’ve still got the same length of rug!

      1. As one who spent his life working in a 24/7 environment, it’s always been a nonsense to me.

    1. Although the claim that he had her agreement to buy the water cannon was a lie. They were illegal here, he knew they were illegal here, he was reminded that they were illegal here; but he thought that if he bought them she could be bullied into licensing them – she couldn’t, quite rightly – so to then lay the blame on her was just his usual bluster when he’d cocked up.

      She is very silly, but that was not an example of her silliness.

      1. Did she know they were illegal? If so, it was very silly of her to not remind him & waste all that taxpayers’/ratepayers’ money. But, hey-ho…

        1. Water cannon had only ever been licensed for use in N Ireland – no other part of the UK.

          I don’t know whether the Home Secretary gave the Mayor of London any advice, or whether he took the trouble to seek advice; which he surely should have done before authorising such a purchase. But I do remember that the fact that their use was not licensed for use on mainland UK was mentioned in every national newspaper and on every current affairs forum, for weeks before they were purchased. It seems impossible that he could have been ignorant of the facts.

          At the time Johnson admitted that they were purchased “before” parliamentary approval but went ahead anyway; with his usual attitude that what he desired would be forthcoming simply because he had desired it. The machines bought were not even fit to be used without extensive work being done on them (to the tune of more than 50% of their purchase price).

          May, having undertaken to do no more than investigate their usefulness, looked at the report she had received, and declined to issue a licence – as was her duty in the light of an unsatisfactory report. No UK police force wanted any involvement with them and that too had been made clear before purchase. Johnson “thought” that he could bully both Mrs May and the Metropolitan Police – a classic example of “planted a feather and thought a hen would grow.

          1. “planted a feather and thought a hen would grow”

            I like that; the expression is so ‘you’!.

          2. Actually it was my grandmother’s saying. The invariable response to a small girl’s “I thought……. ” when, in fact, she hadn’t really thought something through at all!

            As with many childhood sayings, it sticks.

          4. Thanks John. Over the years I’ve come across other, mostly crude or abusive, sayings with a similar meaning… but that one has been with me for longest and is least harmful.

            What I find saddest about the story above is that a behavioural habit which is understandable and forgivable in a small child should be normal for a man who was mayor of our capital city and is now our prime minister. He still expects that the solution to the SARS-CoV-2 problems (and others) will appear, like full grown birds, from his feathers of hope around test and trace without his actually making any effort to see that anything is done to achieve proper systems. When it doesn’t happen he expects the same indulgence of the people of the country, on whom he is inflicting untold damage, that the small child can expect from a loving grandparent. Is he the oldest toddler in our history?

  26. I don’t know why they think a “circuit breaker” will solve the problem?
    A circuit breaker flips in when the circuit develops a fault, shortcircuit or overload. Unless the problem with the circuit is corrected,the circus breaker will flip in again and again until fault dealt with.
    We don’t seem to have any means at the moment of correcting the problem in the circuit this will turn into the machine having to be switched off – Lockdown!

    1. Those ‘circus breakers’, eh? Lions were never ‘tamed’ and clowns were never ‘funny’.

    2. You don’t expect them to have any practical experience, do you? It sounds good, that’s all they’re concerned with.

    2. I still watch UK television, here in Sweden (via a couple of VPNs). Last night there was a BT advert featuring a black man living with his white man lover! The only other person in the ad was their next-door neighbour, an Indian/Pakistani woman who brought them something to the door (as if she was feeling sorry for them).

      The constant, drip, drip, force-feeding of the population with this “new normal” should be banned forthwith. Time is well overdue for a return to common sense and proper normality.

      1. Morning Grizz,
        Totally agree. Yes, I saw that ad too. Notice too that in the JL one above, there isn’t any meat on the table and the subject line for the e-mail is, “Set the table for autumnal meals at home”, ie. under house arrest.

        1. Do you think this trendy left wingery brought on by Ms White will eventually lead to the end of John Lewis and Waitrose?

          She appears determined to drive away existing wealthy customers, whilst we all know that the young trendy lefties would never ever contemplate entering JL or Waitrose.

          2. It doesn’t matter what the colour is of her skin.

            What matters is that she is playing up to the BLM/Antifa movement which will drive away many of the present customers.

            BLM/Antifa supporters wouldn’t be seen dead in a John Lewis shop.

            I see bad times ahead for the John Lewis Group.

          3. Maybe she thinks the colour of her skin matters? She apparently does not give priority to making pragmatic decisions intended to maintain and increase the market share and profits of JL?
            People in business need to have some clue and her background has been about as far from the coalface as can be conceived. Some might say that the most successful bosses work their way up from the bottom. Flogging stuff is complex. Back in the early 70s M&S continually worked out the return on every square foot of counter space. A new product put out at opening time, would be replaced with something else at lunchtime if sales did not meet target.

    3. Is it telling you not to have more than 6 people? Presumably the photographer is the missing white man.

        1. Yes there is. One cleans the floor while his large white dog watches. The other is a security guard in an office block, feeding his little West Highland white terrier.

    4. At least there is a white woman at the table, Sue. My email box this morning contained a “Christmas goodies” advert from “your” M&S. Prominent amongst all the goodies on offer were black males, black females and a half-caste female child. Not a white face in view. I don’t know which is the more infuriating: the insistence by BLM and others that the UK is mainly populated by an oppressed black majority, or the craven subservience to these people by companies wishing to demonstrate their agreement.

      1. If, as it seems, they want apartheid then why don’t we help them by sending all the white people out of Africa to Europe and all the black people out of Europe to Africa?

        If, as they claim, white people are responsible for all the ills in the world then why don’t we set it up so that blacks are not dependent on whites and whites are not dependent on blacks.

        1. Ah, but they do, Janet. I use their credit card for all my purchases now. That accumulates loyalty points and every three months I get a voucher or two to spend in their stores. Recently I used them to |”purchase” (free of charge) two very nice bottles of Argentinian Malbecs.

          2. The reason why I prefer to buy Argentine wine rather than French, NtN, is two-fold:

            (1) Having grown up in Argentina, I still have a fondness for that country (Falklands notwithstanding).

            (2) Since the EU’s intransigence over negotiations after we voted in the referendum to leave, where humanly possible I will not buy EU products for as long as it takes us to totally leave that wretched organisation (four and a half years so far, so until midsummer of 2025).

          3. Mea culpa – I bought the last two remaining bottles of Bordeaux this arvo because they were 40% off. The rest of the wines (apart from the Porto) came from Oz, Chile and Sarf Effrika.

    5. Gosh, they allowed a white woman in the advert.
      Thank you, thank you, John Lewis. (Tugs forelock.)

    6. I accept that we should expect to see some mixed race couples but we never see a white man/black woman combo in ads.

      1. Yes we do. Ad on tv has white man – black wife and 3 or 4 black girls. Can’t remember what ad is for.

    7. Be fair, can’t be sure of ethnicity of person hanging from chandelier taking the picture.

    10. I do not identify with that picture in any way at all.

      All but one of the people are a different ethnicity from me, and nobody in my family is remotely blonde. The blonde looks like one of those annoying people one comes across at university or in the workplace, and tries to avoid.
      The plates are disgusting left wing sludgy green.
      The floor looks like some kind of nasty cheap laminate.
      The food does not look in the least bit appetising or homely.

      Can only conclude that John Lewis is not interested in my custom!

    1. Poor Max, he looks a bit frustrated. Idiots taking photos instead of letting him into the Library!

      1. He’s thinking, “how the heck am I ever going to learn to read if I’m never let in the library?”

  30. Thanks and good morning GG and all..
    Rastus pointed us to this in the mail online.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0031235027572cf5cf6d01bbba6f41b627dfca0ad6f519a1189299c3c4390334.jpg

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/home/index.html

    What is interesting here is the publication of two non-derived measures of virus impact:

    1. Deaths as recorded on death certificates
    2. Infections as recorded by a laboratory based PCR test.

    These we might argue are more significant than the R rate and the % infection rate. Nevertheless they may still be challenged on the basis that deaths are being attributed to COVID-19 when the deceased tested positive in a PCR test during the last 28 days which itself is being challenged as an inaccurate cause.

    These then are two flawed measures which form the basis of Government measures that will shortly see the end of many livelihoods.

    We may however derive another flawed measure which is number of deaths per infection which might be a more realistic indicator of the impact of viral infections over the winter period.

    But it should not be solely be attributed to COVID-19 because it is at flaw level 3.

  31. A vicious cycle of lockdowns would condemn Britain to terminal decline. 14 October 2020.

    A vicious circle of stop-go lockdowns would be a catastrophic indictment of Government policy, an admission of total defeat, a victory of fear and emotion over reason, an appalling signal that Britain has now become so culturally dysfunctional, so decadent as to be utterly incapable of any rational cost-benefit analysis.

    We would no longer be a free society tolerating an exceptional, temporary shutdown to allow our scandalously unprepared establishment to learn to manage a terrible situation. Instead, we would have transitioned to a world of permanent emergency, a wartime society whereby individual rights and lives were permanently suppressed for an ill-defined, ever-shifting “national interest”.

    Morning everyone. Wrong tense! It should all be written in the present! This is things as they are not as they will be!

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/14/vicious-cycle-lockdowns-would-condemn-britain-terminal-decline/

  32. Good morning Folks,

    Clear skies at the moment.
    Lots of people were triggered on facebook yesterday by the Sage group seance meme
    Why do the left get so angry over what was a bit of light hearted jesting.
    They really are totalitarian and intolerant in their views.
    Why are people of centre right opinions so nice and the left so nasty? I’ve found this on various sites over the years.

    1. Well done for posting it on Facebook. It’s important that the numpties are made to realise that there are sentient beings who disagree with them and are prepared to say so.

      1. It’s like another world on there.
        The dialogue usually goes something like this

        Me – I don’t agree with lockdowns
        Lefties – Do you know more than the experts?
        Me – It’s just my personal opinion looking at what is happening around the world
        Lefties – Are you more qualified than the Sage scientists
        Me – no but I have a few O’levels in science.
        Lefties – You are not educated

        Then it get nasty and the name calling starts, with this level of thickness or deliberate obfuscation for what could be half the population I can quite see how the Nazi’s seized control in Germany

        1. Yesterday over on ZH there was an entire article on how populations are seduced by totalitarian regimes ….

        2. I generally avoid posting my views on Facebook, but just occasionally if I do it invariably results in a scrap.

        1. Aye, Sweeney Todd would do a good job on Boris. There are a lot of pies to be had out of that fat bastard.

      1. Do you mean “I don’t believe a word of it”, Bill, or “Don’t you believe a word of it”?

    5. I’m always sceptical of news these days, Johnny, but your post serves to reinforce my long post to Sos about statements by the media promoted as the truth when the articles themselves usually refer to “sources”.

  34. A letter, signed by a group of do-gooders, requests the following –

    “With Covid-19 rocking the foundations of our economy and society, it is more
    important than ever that employers take urgent steps to support black,
    Asian and minority ethnic colleagues from disproportionate impact.
    Today, we are asking the Prime Minister to join us in that mission by making
    it mandatory for organisations to report on their ethnicity pay gap.”

    Looks like the BLACK LIVES MATTER movement is now demanding a PAY RISE!
    BLACKS RULE – “OK”!

    2. Having just been for a virus test i think i have discovered where a lot of the boat people are working. That is directing traffic through the maze of cones and directive instructions.
      And I’ll bet the welsh people are not entirely happy with the possibility of banning the English from virus ‘hot spots’ from crossing their borders. Especially when there are now nearly 300 boat people in Penally camp near Tenby. I wonder if the rifle range is still in use ? 😉

    3. Research published here several days ago showed that for the under 30s bames are paid more than whitey.

  35. From letter in today’s Telegraph on BAME “inequality” – translates as “Black Lives Pay Matters”
    “Mandatory ethnicity pay-gap reporting would be a monumental step
    towards that ambition: we are only waiting on the Prime Minister’s word

    1. Do UK employers record and report on ethnicity now? It would seem to be counter productive to introduce a persons colour / race into their personnel record.

      It is like the US media blathering on about the need for racial equity then reporting voting intentions based on race.

  36. ‘Morning again.

    We nearly ran out of power on Wednesday, and we are nowhere near the depths of winter yet…what a surprise! Thanks, idiot politicians.

    From the Tellygraff:

    The operator of Britain’s electricity network warned late on Wednesday afternoon that low wind levels had forced it to search for emergency sources of power.

    In a statement, the National Grid Electricity Systems Operator (ESO) said: “Unusually low wind output coinciding with a number of generator outages means the cushion of spare capacity we operate the system with has been reduced.”

    It added that it was exploring measures to ensure that there was enough generation available to increase its capacity, and would update the market later on Wednesday evening.

    The news comes just a week after Boris Johnson pledged to quadruple British offshore wind capacity to 40GW within the decade, part of a so-called green industrial revolution that the Prime Minister believes could create millions of jobs over the next 10 years.

    The UK has the world’s biggest offshore wind market and earlier this year the government dropped an effective ban on onshore wind as part of its drive to reach net zero emissions by 2050.

    But critics say that wind power is unreliable compared to other forms of electricity generation such as nuclear, or gas, and can drop at a moment’s notice.

    The infrastructure linking Britain’s offshore wind to onshore power stations has also come under scrutiny in recent months. Developed when the sector was still in its infancy, faulty transmission lines have created numerous issues as the industry has blossomed in recent years.

    Millions of British households missed out on clean energy generated by strong winds in January because a crucial undersea cable stopped working, and record levels of power created by wind farms in Scotland could not be piped to heavily populated parts of England due to faults with the Western HVDC Link, a network of underwater cables that runs down the UK west coast.

    As a result, the farms were told to produce less energy to avoid overloading nearby areas. The National Grid must now pay them more than £30m in compensation – a bill that will ultimately be footed by consumers.

    A wind farm was also partly to blame when nearly one million British homes and businesses were left without electricity last year, after the Hornsea Wind Farm and Little Barford gas-fired station went off grid within minutes of each other.

    Leading BTL comment:

    Nigel Wheatcroft
    14 Oct 2020 7:47PM
    Wonderful thing renewable energy unlike power station where we can decide whether to turn it on or off….with the wind it is nature that decides…what a suprise, what with virus, an inept establishment, politicians of all parties that are out of depth, a vocal minority that are more concerned that they are offended, a media that give opinions rather than reports, extinction rebellion , police that are a social service etc…..a new dark age approaches.

    1. 324633+up ticks,
      Morning HJ,
      Please tell me it did not interfere with the wretch camerons father in laws kick back.

    2. Reassuringly one power generator assures us that it is helping us to reach zero emissions by being a leader in wind power generation. The supplier is EDF ( Électricité de France S.A) which is owned by the French Government. Can we really rely on the French Government to supply us with electricity, really?

      1. Quite so, HP. Can’t say I’m thrilled by the involvement of the Chinese at Hinkley Point, either.

  37. SIR – Like J E Smart (Letters, October 10), my brother, a non-smoker, was diagnosed with lung cancer, in mid-
May. He had an operation in June and, despite another period of lockdown, has finished a course of chemotherapy.

    Unlike Mr Smart, he is not waiting for treatment after five months. He lives in Melbourne, Australia.

    Ronia Crisp

    Weston Colville, Cambridgeshire

    SIR – No flu injections are available in Dorset (Letters, October 14). Supplies are gone. The GP has a waiting list; the chemist’s list has closed.

    Hopefully, things will change before the end of the flu season.

    Camilla Borradaile

    Blandford Forum, Dorset

  38. Morning again

    SIR – I wonder what creativity might be used by drinkers in areas where alcohol may only be consumed with a “substantial meal” (report, October 13).

    I remember a Torquay nightclub in the Sixties with a supper licence that enabled them to serve alcohol on a Sunday night. They overcame the limitations of the restriction by issuing each guest with a triangular ham sandwich that was “worn” in the top pocket of one’s suit jacket – to be eaten should the licensing authorities appear.

    Michael Cattell

    Mollington, Cheshire

      1. Probably why the SE Asian countries didn’t have such severe outbreaks as Europe and the USA – because they caught the earlier version and had some immunity.

      2. Good morning Delboy.
        Your post has just arrived we could Disqus where it’s been, to no avail.
        If there had been a vaccine then they possibly could have tweaked it for version 2. I will not have any cobbled together vaccine they now decide to produce.

  40. I am off till late afternoon. Chums arriving – must get masks, two metre measure, arrows on the floor…

    1. It used to be “When they leave, count the spoons”. Now it’s “As they arrive, count the guests”.

  42. Here is a news item from the DT that you would probably not wish to know about…so brace yourselves! Thankfully I don’t listen to 5 Live, and breakfast telly has never appealed in Janus Towers.
    Any suggestions as to how someone so devoid of talent got the job?? No comments allowed, naturally:

    Naga Munchetty is to become one of the BBC’s highest-paid women after landing her own show on Radio 5 Live.

    Munchetty will succeed Emma Barnett as presenter of 5 Live’s mid-morning slot from January, when Barnett moves to Woman’s Hour on Radio 4.

    She will host the show from Monday-Wednesday and continue with her Thursday-Saturday job on BBC Breakfast.

    Last year she earned £195,000-199,999 for her role as a breakfast presenter, and her forthcoming pay rise will see her salary rise to over £250,000 per year.

    She is expected to break into the top 10 of female earners, and would become the only woman of colour in that list as the BBC strives to address diversity.

    Munchetty guest presented the Emma Barnett show over the summer. She said “I’m absolutely thrilled to be joining the 5 Live team. I have always wanted to work more in radio and after such an enjoyable experience presenting on the station recently, I jumped at this opportunity.

    “5 Live has one of the most passionate, engaged audiences in radio. The prospect of talking to those listeners every week really excites me. I can’t wait to get stuck into the role from January.”

    A presenter on BBC Breakfast from 2009, Munchetty has been building her profile since appearing as a contestant on Strictly Come Dancing in 2016.

    Her new show will include regular political interviews, and Munchetty’s interviewing style has drawn criticism. Harvey Proctor, the former Conservative MP falsely accused of involvement in a VIP paedophile ring, walked off BBC Breakfast, telling Munchetty: “I respect your work but you must not invite people onto your programme and then not allow them to speak.”

    She was at the centre of controversy last year after making comments about Donald Trump and racism. The US president had tweeted that four US congresswomen of colour should go back to “the crime-infested places from which they came”.

    The following day, Munchetty said that “every time I have been told, as a woman of colour, to go back to where I came from, that was embedded in racism.” She added that she felt absolutely furious that a man in that position feels it’s ok to skirt the lines with using language like that”.

    The BBC’s editorial complaints unit initially ruled that Munchetty had breached impartiality guidelines. There was an outcry, and the BBC’s then director-general, Lord Hall of Birkenhead, intervened to give Munchetty his backing.

    “Naga Munchetty – one of our stars – was completely within her rights to speak about the tweets of Donald Trump which have been widely condemned as racist,” Lord Hall said. “She was speaking honestly and from the heart about her own experiences. We admire her for it and she was completely justified in doing so.”

    Announcing Munchetty’s new role yesterday, Heidi Dawson, controller of 5 Live, said: “Naga is a brilliant broadcaster and a fearless journalist, making her the perfect fit for our mid-morning programme.

    “She impressed us while working briefly at the station in the summer, when our listeners loved her warmth, wit and straight-talking interview style. I’m sure she will make the mid-morning programme a must-listen.

    “I can’t wait to hear her interviewing the biggest names in news and telling stories from around the UK that you won’t hear anywhere else.”

    2. She was at the centre of controversy last year after making comments about Donald Trump and racism. The US president had tweeted that four US congresswomen of colour should go back to “the crime-infested places from which they came”.

      The following day, Munchetty said that “every time I have been told, as a woman of colour, to go back to where I came from, that was embedded in racism.” She added that she felt absolutely furious that a man in that position feels it’s ok to skirt the lines with using language like that”.

      And the rest of his quotation?

    3. Good morning ,

      Why does a chattering twerp like her receive more money than thePrime Minister.
      Of course , I get it , the BBC licence fee covers her salary and more, She has a voice as tart like as a bitter lemon.

      Her voice is appalling , her voice is punishment enough to make the dogs howl.

      1. Fortunately, I think the only time I heard her voice was when she took part in Strictly. I certainly wouldn’t bother watching her breakfast show or R5live.

    5. As always I would dispute the use of “earned” in the context of the obscene amount that Munchbuttie is paid! The obvious solution to solving the gender pay gap at the BBC is to pay the men a lot less!!

      1. Or cut the numbers in half. Oh! (Old joke comes to mind,”Ze top half will be going to Stalag 3, and the bottom half…”

    6. “I can’t wait to hear her interviewing the biggest names in news and
      telling stories from around the UK that you won’t hear anywhere else.”

      Suspect most of us Nottlers, somehow, will be able to wait – a very long time!

    7. I do not wish to know the personal views of news readers, comperes, chat show hosts, or couch potatoes who introduce news items. Many of them, while opinionated, are brainless. Naga exemplifies this.

    9. I can’t stand the woman, but maybe in her new job she will be allowed to sit on the left. (I don’t mean politically, that’s a given)

    10. I can’t stand the woman, but maybe in her new job she will be allowed to sit on the left. (I don’t mean politically, that’s a given)

  44. Mail to an MP……

    “Build Back Better” is a very ingenious reverse meaning propaganda term designed to persuade the sheep to do what the billionaire elite wants. Governments like yours and international bodies such as the UN and the EU are mere intermediaries between the elite and the people.

    That’s why individuals like Alex Soros and George Soros before him can walk in anytime they like to see the Secretary General of the United Nations, the President of the European Commission or the President of France. The Soros family are part of the billionaire global elite and luckily they’re not shy about what they do. Others are more discrete.

    If you don’t believe me, check out the evidence…

    It is crucially important to understand the motive for the meeting in New York in April 1996 between George Soros and Tony Blair. It was a trade, do what I want if you win in 1997 and you get my funding and favors. Same as with Obama.

    So Soros infiltrated the UK government and system via Blair. That’s why you have an extensive range of Soros leveraged legislation on your statute book. This continued with Brown, Cameron and May. It’s less clear what the situation is with Johnson but it looks that he’s in with Soros’ friend, Bill Gates.

    Do focus on the Soros/Blair meeting in New York in 1996 and understand the motives and long term implications before it is too late.

    Polly

    1. Same old story eh corporate greed is and will destroy the planet. Aided and abetted by the know it all political classes who will do anything to leave their own personal stain on human history.

  45. Let’s have bit of fun. No Black Month would be complete without a programme of films featuring black people, or people pretending to be black people.
    Here are some suggestions for Black Film Month:
    “Call Me Bwana”,
    “Sanders of the River”,
    “Tarzan the Ape Man”,
    “Porgy and Bess”,
    “King Solomon’s Mines”
    “Zulu”,

    Further suggestions would be warmly welcomed.

    4. There should be a giant music festival just for ‘People of colour’. They could call it Woodpile.

    1. Wash your hands for 20 seconds, don’t touch your face and keep two metres away from anyone who wants to put a stick with cotton wool on it up your oral or nasal cavities!

    2. Back in March, wearing a mask was my “Line in the sand.”
      These days it’s vaccinations.
      We’ll see what happens with compulsory testing.

  47. Toby Young
    Why can’t we talk about the Great Barrington Declaration?
    From magazine issue: 17 October 2020

    You probably haven’t heard of the Great Barrington Declaration. This is a petition started by three scientists on 4 October calling for governments to adopt a policy of ‘focused protection’ when it comes to Covid-19. They believe those most at risk should be offered protection — although it shouldn’t be mandatory — and those not at risk, which is pretty much everyone under 65 without an underlying health condition, should be encouraged to return to normal. In this way, the majority will get infected and then recover, gradually building up herd immunity, and that in turn will mean the elderly and the vulnerable no longer have to hide themselves away. According to these experts, this is the tried and tested way of managing the risk posed by a new infectious disease, dating back thousands of years.

    The three scientists who created it aren’t outliers or cranks, but professors at Oxford, Harvard and Stanford. And since its launch, the declaration been signed by tens of thousands of epidemiologists and public health scientists, including a Nobel Prize winner. So why haven’t you heard of it? The short answer is there’s been a well-orchestrated attempt to suppress and discredit it. I searched for it on Google last Saturday and the top link was to an article in an obscure left-wing magazine claiming the petition was the work of a ‘climate science denial network’ funded by a right-wing billionaire. The top video link was to a Channel 4 News report in which Devi Sridhar, a public health advisor to the Scottish government, denounced the declaration as not ‘scientific’. A bit rich considering Devi’s PhD is in social anthropology, whereas Sunetra Gupta, one of the petition’s authors, is a global expert on infectious diseases. In the first ten pages of Google search results, not one took me to the actual declaration.

    It is hard to find any mention of it on Reddit, the world’s best-known discussion website. The two most popular subreddits devoted to the virus — r/COVID19 and r/Coronavirus — have excised all references to it, with the moderators of the latter denouncing it as ‘spam’. A similar line has been taken by nearly all left–leaning newspapers. The Guardian ran an article on the declaration last Saturday, but only to flag up that its more than 400,000 signatories included a handful of dubious–sounding ‘experts’, such as ‘Dr Johnny Bananas’ and ‘Prof Cominic Dummings’. Hardly surprising, given that lockdown zealots have been openly encouraging their followers on social media to sign up with fake names.

    But it gets worse. On Monday, Professor Gupta appeared on BBC News to talk about the new lockdown measures in the north of England. Just before she went on air, one of the producers told her not to mention the declaration. Naturally, she ignored this instruction, but where did it come from? At the end of last month, Professor Susan Michie, a member of Sage, took to Twitter to complain that she’d been invited on to the Today programme to discuss focused protection on the understanding that the scientists behind it would be portrayed as beyond the pale, only for Professor Gupta to make a compelling, logical argument. ‘I’d got prior agreement from R4 about the framing of the item,’ she wrote. ‘I was assured that this would not be held as an even-handed debate.’ On whose authority had she been given that assurance?

    I suspect Ofcom’s ‘coronavirus guidance’ has something to do with it. This guidance, published when the lockdown was announced in March, warns broadcasters to exercise extreme caution before criticising the response by the public health authorities or interviewing any sceptics. The organisation I set up last February, the Free Speech Union, is currently trying to judicially review this guidance, but in the interim the BBC no longer needs to suppress discussion of the declaration because the WHO, the most respectable public health authority in the world, has done a U-turn on lockdowns. This was made clear on Spectator TV last week by Professor David Nabarro, one of six coronavirus envoys appointed by the WHO’s director-general. ‘We in the World Health Organisation do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus,’ he told Andrew Neil, before going on to highlight the collateral damage they’ve caused across the world, echoing the words of the declaration.

    Ignore the censors and the smear merchants. Go to gbdeclaration.org right now and sign the petition.

    1. Professors profess to know the answer to everything – that’s why there are so many of them.

    2. “It is hard to find any mention of it on Reddit, the world’s best-known discussion website…”

      Pah. It cant be that great – it doesn’t host NTTL.

  48. SIR – Can we wear woolly gloves now that the weather is getting colder? Do we need several pairs, to be able to put a pair into the wash every night?

    Could someone in the Government tell us? Or perhaps ministers, with their official cars, have forgotten what it is like to carry shopping or stand at a bus stop in winter.

    Barbara Smith
    London N5

    Weather getting colder, Babs? What on earth are you smoking? Have you not been listening to the constant drip of propaganda these past few decades?
    There is no cold weather, woman. The earth is at boiling point, all the polar bears and penguins are dead, and you may fry your eggs directly from the heat of the pavement.

    D’oh!

  49. Walking away from the EU will not be enough: Boris needs to ditch the Withdrawal Agreement
    As trade talks intensify ahead of today’s EU Summit, former Brexit minister calls for hardline stance

    DAVID JONES

    DT https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/15/walking-away-eu-will-not-enough-boris-needs-ditch-withdrawal/

    A BTL comment on this article which I could have written myself:

    I sent several letters to the DailyTelegraph before the general election saying that it was essential that Boris Johnson did not escape his televised interview with Andrew Neil.

    I suspected, as did many people, that Johnson’s Withdrawal Agreement was no better than May’s Surrender Withdrawal Agreement and that there were very many nasty surprises in it which I am not surprised to see have now come to light.

    But why were the MSM – including the Daily Telegraph – so reluctant to question Johnson properly? Johnson was so determined to avoid any serious questioning that I was certain he was terrified of an Andrew Neil interview which is why, like a coward, he ran away from it.

    1. UK has left the EU.
      All we have left to do is leave the jurisdiction of the ECJ and regain control of the borders that the EU thinks they have control over. Perhaps a traffic light system would work.😉

      1. is that all we have to do? Is Boris going to do it? Is he capable or doing it?

        We shall see,

        1. It’s as simple as doing a circuit breaker for COVID-19.
          i.e. It will cause some pain to achieve independence from the EU.
          But then No pain, no gain.

  50. Who ate the pies in Marks & Sparks’ £1,000 hamper?

    Marks & Spencer has raised eyebrows after it launched a Christmas hamper priced at just shy of £1,000.

    The Collection Berkeley Luxury Christmas Hamper – described by Marks & Sparks as “the jewel in our hamper crown” – is on sale for £999.

    Encased in three hand-woven wicker hampers, the assortment includes matured Christmas cakes and pudding, chocolate boxes, and a selection of wines and spirits, but festive favourite mince pies are noticeably absent. Sam McFaul, a personal finance expert, wrote on social media: “I’m not sure Marks & Spencer has read the room with this product launch. It’s not a pricing error.”

    What sort of clown buys Christmas hampers anyway? They all contain items you would not normally buy (or which get thrown away unused). It is streets more sensible (remember ‘sensible’?) to buy the items you require singly and not pay a whopping premium for a ‘hamper’ which will never get used again.

    More money than sense some people!

      1. I think Grizzly provided the answer in his earlier post today (..). Presumably he meant £9.99!

        :-))

    2. When I occasionally do a hamper, it contains stuff I’ve either made or chosen carefully for the recipients.

      1. So (© telly tart) when you greet us campers, you really mean hampers…

        See you in Fortnums.

          2. So I discovered myself some years ago, Annie. Although their cheeses (and quince jelly) is excellent.

      2. If you’re planning to send me one this Christmas, Annie, may I suggest just a small one provided it contains at least half a dozen jars of your home-made lemon curd!

        :-))

        PS – Good morning, btw.

      3. Yes, we did one last year for my parents. They don’t need “things” so their Christmas gift from their daughters and grandchildren was a box of goodies, carefully chosen so that everything was suitable.

        One or two companies do permit orders of individually planned hampers, and they are useful for distant gifts (we once did one for a great-aunt in the USA to celebrate her 90th birthday, using a firm which was local to her and a list of her favourites provided by her son).

    3. I suspect that the various lockdowns/working from homes etc. has meant that a lot of people have accumulated the money they’re not spending on season tickets/fuel/sandwiches and all the other expenses of commuting. Possibly they feel justified in splurging a grand on a fancy hamper and that M&S have realised the potential.

      However for every one of these there are probably another 5 unfortunates who have been laid off or won’t have a job to go to by Christmas. Divisive to say the least.

      1. I’ve noticed the main current bank account (where the pensions go) has more in it than usual. Not going to the pub as much, because it’s not much fun being trapped in a chair at a table. One weekly food and booze forage. What’s the good of more money when life is becoming miserable?

        1. Quite agree. Some people’s way of minimising the misery might be a hamper for Christmas! Wouldn’t be mine, oh no.

  51. Average age of someone dying from COVID in the U.K. – 82 years of age.

    Average age of someone dying from all other causes in the U.K. – 81 years.

    Don’t believe me? Check for yourself.

      1. Well said Alf, and Kate Hoey – one of the few Labour politicians I could have voted for!

      2. Not to mention that there has been no mention of officers being investigated for the brutal assaults on the “lockdown protestors”.

  54. “Nicola Sturgeon singles out the English town of Blackpool, telling us not to visit there because of the high Covid-19 risk”. Independent

    Stupid woman! It’s Peopleofcolourpool, you idiot. Peopleofcolourpool!

    1. Unlike Herr H who wanted to use B’pool as his capital once he’d conquered us uppity English. Hence it was spared bombing, despite being full of RAF trainees.

      1. They may have tested positive, but what did they actually die of? This is a post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. C19 being “mentioned” on a death certificate just means they had it, not that they died of it.

  56. Good morning again.

    Here is a BTL comment under Sherelle’s article today:

    20% across the board cut in public sector pay. That will start to focus minds.

    A 40% cut would be nearer the mark as many people in the private sector have lost far more than 20%. And why don’t MPs set the ball rolling by taking a 50% cut pour encourager les autres?

    Sorry if it’s already been posted but here is the article:

    To win the argument, lockdown-sceptics must unite with a new manifesto
    Having failed to move the dial a second time, those who believe in a better way need to prepare for a final Spring showdown

    SHERELLE JACOBS
    15 October 2020 • 6:00am

    A spectre is haunting the world — the spectre of lockdownism. In contrast, herd immunity is dead as a doornail. The world has dismissed the Great Barrington Declaration – a petition for natural immunity launched by Harvard and Oxford scientists in Massachusetts – as the champagne-soused tantrum of intellectually arrogant libertarians. While rival experts tore at Barrington’s “dangerous” and “alt-Right” agenda, the WHO landed the killer blow, declaring herd immunity “immoral”.

    Despite attempts to articulate an alternative to lockdown anchored in scientific rigour and basic human values, sceptics have lost the argument, and urgently need a new manifesto for the cause. A second wave of shutdowns appears inevitable. The priority now is to win the argument not today but in six months’ time; spring 2021 could change the course of human history.

    If no vaccine materialises by that point, seasonal lockdowns threaten to become institutionalised, enforced by intricate surveillance and draconian laws. The stuff of science fiction now looks plausible. It isn’t strictly true that the world “can’t afford” endless lockdowns. The scale of debt doesn’t matter so much as the servicing costs. Lockdowns are thus feasible as long as interest rates are low, which could last for years. Besides, how the outlandish can dull into the ordinary! As the handshake reflex makes way for the “facemask-keys-wallet” ritual, the new normal becomes normality itself to our subconsciouses.

    With the stakes so high, lockdown-sceptics must self-criticise remorselessly. Why have opponents so succesfully smeared protecting the vulnerable as “letting the virus rip”? We failed to articulate that shielding is centrist rather than extremist. After all, it would still leave over-65s under house arrest, care homes without Christmas visits, and pubs struggling due to distancing.

    We also made the rookie error of basing our arguments on assumptions that the vast majority do not share. We cried “freedom!”, and were shocked at those who readily surrendered theirs. We forgot that values like honour, glory, yearning for protection and a desire to belong have always been more prized by humanity. As the sociologist Orlando Patterson argues, freedom is not a universal value but a quirk of Western history; a dialectical response to large-scale slavery in antiquity, reinforced by Judeo-Christian “slave religions”. While freedom clings for dear life to the frontier spirit of the American Dream, its potency in state-revering Europe is fading.

    We also didn’t foresee mass revulsion towards economic arguments. The economy is mostly seen as an abstract problem, tomorrow’s problem, a dirty problem. The economic discipline’s dessicated phraseology and fixation with units of value and utility have turned off many. The field’s historic neglect of urgent macro-questions like the interplay between wealth and health has condemned it to near irrelevance.

    A four-point lockdown-sceptic manifesto could build on these hard lessons. First, our arguments need to tap into real human nature, rather than a fairytale version of it. We need to engage with man’s terror of death and anxiety about risk rather than indulge in fantasies about his so-called love of liberty or desire to truly live.

    The priority, then, is to ensure the world knows about every person that the next lockdown drives to suicide, every woman whose skull is smashed in by their partner, every cancer patient who dies because they weren’t treated. It is striking that the only official projections of the lockdown death toll (74,000 – compared with around 50,000 dying with Covid-19) had to be leaked. Perhaps through a global research network, incorporating charities and public health experts, we can track the human cost of lockdown.

    And on the subject of risk, we need to hold leaders to account on their gambles. They are betting millions of lives on the 33 per cent likelihood that a given clinical trial will yield a vaccine. China and Russia are putting millions more in the developing world at risk, as they snap up contracts to roll out poorly tested vaccines.

    Second, lockdown-sceptics must stimulate a more sophisticated discussion about shielding, rather than get bogged down in a herd immunity debate. We simply don’t yet know whether people are building lasting natural immunity, but critics are luring us into a trap as they talk up a false choice between natural and vaccine immunity. The solution likely involves both. The question is how to shield people in the meantime.

    Third, lockdown-scepticism needs insights from public health, rather than just a few brave epidemiologists, for a detailed plan. Do we need to retrain out-of-work graduates for live-in posts in care home bubbles? With hospital trusts badly hit by the first wave now complaining about a lack of ICU beds, how can we improve capacity? Given that 70 per cent of Covid transmission happens in the home, should the state pay ailing hoteliers to make their properties isolation centres?

    Fourth, lockdowns-ceptics can knock Imperial College off its perch with superior modelling. Experts are starting to dabble in “compartmental” models, which may help anticipate super-spreading events in care homes and hospitals. But these projects require more funding to go mainstream.

    If the lockdown-sceptic movement can do these four things, maybe we can move the dial. In these dark months, we must reflect, reassess and regroup. Locked Down Citizens of All Countries, Unite!

    1. An interesting point is the reference to “mass revulsion towards economic arguments“. Who would have thought it? Unlike the Declaration of Arbroath, the SNP arguments for Scottish Independence were almost entirely based on economic arguments, as were the Unionist arguments.
      The debate about leaving the EU was almost entirely based on economic arguments, as the Brexit side fell into the trap of arguing on Remainers’ terms.
      Sometimes we should consider what the right thing to do actually is, without looking at our wallets. As we have demonstrated that nothing we do has any effect on the spread of Covid-19, maybe we should do nothing. If we carry on as we used to back in 2018 the worst that will happen is that more people will die than is usual, especially the aged and infirm. Well, maybe we should just accept that as a price we pay for not strangling the dreams, education, experience, socialising, work and prospects of our children and grandchildren. (It might also save our country from economic collapse, as a collateral benefit.)

    2. Good morning Rastus and all Nottlers.

      The MPs should have, first of all, declined to accept the pay rise recently awarded them, 4.1% I think, and should have, right from the start of furlough, been made to accept the same terms and conditions as the rest of the country. Including all public sector workers except for refuse collectors and NHS workers. The over-reaction by government has horrendous consequences which so many of the public seem to be unaware financially.

        1. And why were the teachers given a pay rise for skiving?

          I refused to join a teachers’ union when I worked as a teacher.

          1. It looks very much as if the frightened teachers are responsible for the nonsensical conditions being imposed in schools.

      2. I’d love a 4.1% pay rise. I can’t remember when I last had a pay rose exceed 2%.

    3. She’s quite right. So few people think strategically. We always lose because we only ever react to what the very organised globalists throw at us.

  58. Well, what an interesting day.
    At Sonny Jim’s invitation, we pottered into town for lunch.
    The Bomb appears to have hit Colchester; I’ve never seen so few people.
    Pub lunch was an obstacle course of technology and service with a snarl.
    We’ll not be rushing back.

    1. I went over to Cirencester to to the printers, and as I drove through town, therre seemed to be quite a few people walking around the pedestrian area by the church – wearing masks…….. why do they need to wear them out in the open in thr fresh air?

          5. Well – I could just wind it round a bit higher up than normal. Haven’t tried it yet. I’m using the one you’ve seen, plus a couple more I had printed up from my own photos – a leopard face and a cheetah face.

      2. Practising for when it becomes compulsory in the next “what can I do to make life more difficult?” round of policies.

      3. If you are going into several shops, and you have things to carry, it’s a bit of a pest having to keep taking your mask off and putting it on again. I left mine in place on Monday while I crossed the road from WH Smith to the Post Office.

        1. I saw one couple again on my way back 20 minutes later, still wearing their masks, some way down the street.

    2. Anne, I have just come back from Linlithgow Palace and loch! Loads of American, Dutch, English and Swedish tourists ignoring whatever the wee witch is lying about. Fed up with the c**p!

    1. The DUP’s Renewable Heat Initiative passed you by?
      Last time I looked. it’s cost the British taxpayer £400 million.
      For a country the size of NI that takes some doing.

      1. How can they have spent £200 per person on a green?

        No, don’t answer. It’s obviously £50 was spent on a website the rest went into back pockets, brown envelopes and other troughs.

        1. Ongoing sos. All sorts of rumours of illegal grants to family members/friends.
          Why do you think Stormont was stood down for so long?

          1. As usual, nothing will be found, There will be no penalties, nothing. A mass of tax payers cash lost for nothing except Lefty greed.

  60. Advertisement headline from The Flight Centre…
    ‘Five Secret Australian Beaches That Are Worth Keeping Quiet About’

    I take it pilots don’t ‘do’ irony.

  62. https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/bltf04078f3cf7a9c30/blta5516ee2c708da0b/5f88243ef6c586323f8b3309/GettyImages-1228926283.jpg?format=jpg&width=1920&height=1080&fit=crop
    A Prague cafe sells Covid-19 puddings

    Daughter 2 who lives in Prague (with S-i-L + four children) is very relieved to have just got the ‘all clear’ after a second cancer op/test (in Edinburgh) is now boiling with fury at having the little darlings milling around in Hrad Citroen requiring home schooling again.

        1. It was once a school with a physical presence but became a correspondence college. Useful for children of expats who may live in parts of the developing world.
          Off topic, I used to know a lady (now elderly) in Ireland who formerly owned in excess of 40 Connemaras. As her long suffering husband lived & worked elsewhere, the family used to tell him that there were only about a dozen. And extremely hungry for hay.

    1. Is she related to Hopalong, Alf? And whatever happened to Spangles, his favourite sweets?

    2. I have the CD. Her ‘Autumn Leaves’ has been re-released with backing by the London Symphony Orchestra.

  66. Coincidences along the time-line.

    This year is the 100th anniversary of the building of the Cenotaph.
    There will be no march past and only the Royals and the usual crew of dignitaries will lay wreaths.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8843257/Remembrance-Sunday-Cenotaph-closed-public-coronavirus-pandemic.html

    I wonder how all those whose sacrifices are being commemorated would feel about how we are cowed by a Government using a glorified ‘flubug as an excuse for all sorts of measures that only a conquered people would normally have to accept.

    1. Why not stage a march-past with the the leader carrying a BLM flag, It was all ok a few weeks ago.

      2. 325633+ up ticks,
        Afternoon KP,
        Why deceive in such a manner, leave that to the politico’s.
        March as English / GB patriots and supporters
        unless one does prefer a submissive stance.

        1. We Ulster-Scots say “Lead on McBluff.”
          Suspect we’ll be waiting a long time for you to put down your keyboard and take to your feet ogga 🙂

          1. 325633+ up ticks,
            js,
            It is only out of politeness that I answer you, my feet once more
            are leading up the scaffold to wrestle with the lead flashing.

    2. I wonder if the veterans were asked if they wanted to have a March past or if they would have preferred to hide away in isolation.

      What if they just went, would the police be stupid enough to break up their march?

      Our little town ceremony has also been cancelled, we are supposed to stay at home and watch Trudeau play acting at the cenotaph in Ottawa.

  67. 325633+ up ticks,
    Listen up Gerard you have been saying this for years in rhetoric & book form and meeting the same opposition from the “Must vote tory keep out labour” must vote lab keep out tory” brigade.
    All the while suffering a castigating sh!te storm from these very same party’s whos true agenda is the downfall of the United Kingdom.

    https://twitter.com/GerardBattenUK/status/1316687311246102529

    1. If you threaten to walk away you have to go through with it or nobody will believe anything you say ever again.

      1. 325633+ up ticks,
        Afternoon N,
        That only applies within peoples of decency circles, the lab/lib/con coalition party have been leading a very contented lifestyle up until the 24/6/2016 my belief is ,many are still very pro brussels and in collusion in many ways, Dover being a prime example.
        What I’m saying is they write & act out the script betwixt themselves.

        1. Had we listened to you all those years Nigel would have been PM. Doing to the UK what he did to UKIP & Brexit Party.
          Where’s Emily Enso these days ogga? Is she still posting?

          1. 325633+ up ticks,
            Js,
            My past post’s are are open to all, in regards to farage he played his part well as UKIP leader with a few iffy actions that came to be realised after he left the party, & went into rant mode.

            My difference is that when treachery is suspected I drop the person or party, with current tory followers they cannot seem to get enough of major, the wretch cameron / clegg, may, and your latest, johnson, why do you do it ?

            Very near had kim philby in charge of MI5.

          2. “My past post’s are are open to all, …” Might be why Breitbart banned you ogga.

            Nigel took you for a mug and you lapped it up.
            Who did you vote for to replace Nigel as UKIP leader, Lisa Duffy or Diane James? Trick question 🙂
            Emily Enso?

          3. 325633+ up ticks,
            js,
            If that be the case what would your reasoning be when confronted by major, the wretch cameron , clegg, may, johnson ?

        1. Doesn’t it just! The thought of those poor people with dementia, being held down each week for an invasive and unnecessary procedure is heart-breaking.

          1. Surely this could be considered assault? It makes no sense whatsoever to keep testing the residents especially when they’re not allowed visitors and the staff are tested every week. This is worse than cruelty and totally inhuman.

          2. It would normally be considered assault – attempting to carry out a procedure against the patient’s wishes. The question is, is mental incapacity a get-out?

          3. In medical terms a SARS-CoV-2 swab test is not invasive, though it is probably unpleasant. I’ve had nasal swabs taken for other things and they are not really very hard to cope with though they might be confusing. I’m inclined to think that the descriptions given are, perhaps, a little overdrawn.

            If the resident is unable to make coherent decisions then permission must be given by the next of kin, or whoever holds a power of attorney. In some care homes almost every resident will be subject to one of those. If residence is dependent upon testing then the next of kin are going to give permission because they don’t have facilities to care for the person anywhere else. A few people have removed their nearest and dearest from care homes – but only those with space and time and strength can do so. Once that permission has been signed then it’s entirely legal.

            The alternative is that the care home itself is acting in loco parentis – but that might not stand up if the resident has family who object – but then you come back to “fine, take her/him somewhere else”. The devil and the deep blue sea spring to mind.

          4. Isn’t that the slippery slope? My feeling is that in no way should a patient be forced to undergo such an assault. Why can the staff not wait to see if any symptoms appear and then treat them accordingly?

          6. This is the first time I’m glad that an elderly friend of mine with dementia died at the start of lockdown. I used to look for boxes of chocolates and cards with cats on for Christmas – she loved her cats.

          15. My elderly friend was in the only care home I’ve ever visited that I wouldn’t mind living in actually. I don’t know their secret, but the staff always looked friendly and motivated. It was a purpose built home, laid out like a luxury hotel. I suspect it probably cost a fortune to stay there!

            I have a German private care insurance, that pays out for care. As I have four children, I’m hoping that they can supervise the carers, and I can stay in my own home! If I get too difficult, there will be the money to pack me off to a care home though!
            Someone in my parents’ village has a rota of home carers and still lives in his own home.

          16. An old friend of mine used to run a very small care home – my father in law spent a few weeks with her before having to go into hospital. But she eventually sold up and retired. Home care is a better bet if you can get someone you trust.

            Do you still live in Germany?

          19. I do think, at some point, some enterprising Nottlers should develop an “end of life” village/community/retreat for us, such that we can help each other (supported as necessary by bought-in resources) through the transition from independence, then assistance to dependence and finality. Where is really the only difficult question.

          20. Nice idea, but who would want to move from their current location/own homes at that time of life? That’s probably why “retirement villages” are popular because people can make that decision before it’s forced on them.

          21. My sister died last year in a Helensborough care home last November. She had severe dementia and a couple of other things. The staff were very good. I’m glad she went before this shit kicked off

      2. “A concerned carer”
        British? EU? Other?
        Unemployed and homeless if they identify themselves? Courtesy of Maggie & Blair.

  69. 325633+ up ticks,
    Are the British tax payers paying for the missiles.

    breitbart,
    WATCH: French Fishermen Fire Flares, Throw Frying Pans and Oil at British Boats

    3. In the past, people used to cough to cover up a fart. Now they fart to cover up a cough.

          1. 325633+ up ticks,
            js
            He is still up a height trying to beat the weather with flashing and masonry repairs why do you want to make your problems, his problems, you really must try harder.

  72. That’s me gone for the day. Delightful lunch. Discovered that the husband of our chums rates BPAPM – I suggested he wrote and told him!!

    Bonfire tomorrow, with luck.

    A demain.

    1. It is this kind of thing that makes me think that whatever the polls might suggest, Trump is still in with a fighting chance.

      1. The way Biden is going, you might be excused for thinking that he wants to lose the election.

        The competing town hall broadcasts could well decide it if Biden doesn’t do more than just stand there looking presidential.

        CNN is more into what Buttigieg says than Bidens latest anti Trump words.

        1. Perhaps Biden has finally woken up to what will follow if he gets elected.
          I don’t think he hates all that America is and stands for and he may have finally realised that his running mate and supporters really do hate America as it is.

      2. Following the inquiry into why the polls had gotten their 2015 GE predictions – “Labour Win” so wrong the pollsters admitted they had included too many Labour voters in their samples.

          1. Ask 100 mask wearers standing 2 metres apart if they think Covid restrictions are justified.
            Then ask 100 non-mask wearers grouped together their opinion.
            Mix as required to provide the customer’s outcome.

    2. From the same source:

      On 2 October 2020, authorities in Ireland retrocorrected the total number of COVID-19 deaths leading to a negative value for the deaths reported on 3 October 2020.

      COVID-19 births must be outstripping COVID-19 deaths in Ireland!

    3. Italy, Vatican City and San Marino are off the travel “corridor” (ie if you’ve been there, you have to self isolate – fine of £1K rising to £10k for failing to do so – for 14 days). On the other hand, if you go to Crete you no longer have to. All this from 04.00 Sunday morning.

      1. It’s Linlithgow Palace. Birthplace of Mary Queen of Scots and a favourite residence of the Scottish monarchs around that time. Ruined long ago.

        2. Jennifer, it looked stunning in its autumnal colours. The sandstone and the watercolour trees were amazing.
          The loch was like a millpond and the waterfowl were doing their stuff! We had a fabulous couple of hours and felt normal – no stupid masks, children doing their thing and parents not interfering!

          1. I remember it as a fairly spectacular edifice and the setting is lovely at any time of year. All “out of doors” – or at least with no roof – so no need for masks. I can’t imagine that you were hugging any strangers anyway …. I mean, who does?

      2. Linlithgow Palace and Loch! It was warm and calm today and full of tourists giving two fingers to the harridan at the pretendy cooncil!

        1. You should know well enough by now Sue that there is nothing “pretendy” about the Scottish parliament. Its powers (whether or not you approve of them) are considerable and far reaching. I usually refer to her as “the nippy sweetie” in Bute House.

          I remember visiting Linlithgow on a school trip (not quite 50 years ago, but not far short of it) don’t think I’ve been back. We had that sort of day here on the Welsh border too – but sadly I was working.

          1. Could you explain why the ScotsParl doesn’t use it’s tax raising and spending powers, then? Why not use the powers assigned to it and replace English funding through the Barnett formula with locally raised taxes?

          2. Got to disagree with you Jennifer. It is a pretend concept of a parliament – it doesn’t even exist on its own tax-raising powers and needs huge amounts of dosh via Barnett, to fund free prescriptions, university placements etc etc.

          3. “It is a pretend concept of a parliament…”
            Nothing pretend about how much Holyrood cost us.

          7. It could be worse.
            You might be an English taxpayer and one of the ones who pays for the bits the locals can’t..

          8. Or a non-English Brit living and paying taxes in GB.
            Increasingly unhappy at where our taxes are going.

          9. The facts are against you. It is a parliament which, far from being “pretend” controls almost all aspects of life in Scotland. That makes it very, very real.

          10. I live here in Scotland, Jennifer and the cooncil couldn’t run a bath. The only thing they control is their SNP cult members.

          11. I know where you live. I know what they control (I’m the only member of my UK family who doesn’t live in Scotland). The facts are all against your assertion. Their competence is irrelevant (and in any case it is, frankly, greater than that of the “big hoose” in London in many respects – though that isn’t saying much).

            It is a parliament and a real one, not a council. Acceptance of facts might do more good when it comes to changing the place. Calling it names simply denigrates Scotland, nothing else.

          12. I read and hear what you say, Jennifer and as a Geordie living in central Scotland for 40 years I am going to repeat that this so-called government is no more a government than Gateshead Town Council was 50 years ago. The “powers” it has are no more and no less than the local council. Just on a slightly bigger scale (and not forgetting their tax-raising powers!)

          15. It’s utter nonsense; the even worse bunch in Westminster are further over their heads – but no one suggests there’s anything pretend there – because, sadly, it is all too real as is the fiasco in Edinburgh (and the one in Cardiff at present).

            Show me that Gateshead Town Council had control of hospitals for 6 million people, universities for their own students and thousands of others, and was able to levy its own chosen rate of Income Tax (you know you can’t) if you want to pretend that your comment is anything other than nonsense.

            Now, that’s it, I’m going to have a bath.

    2. We have small, scattered memorials around the country for those shot by the Nazis for resistance activities – or just reprisals for same. Very moving.

    1. The way the economy and industry is going we’ll be burning peat sods in mud huts in 5 years time.

      1. Nope.

        All the peat bogs will have been replaced with Pine plantations.

        And mud huts will be designated cultural appropriation and not available to white people.

    2. Green only exists due to tax payer subsidy. Remove it, and it doesn’t get built.

      For some reason no one understands – except in relation to state green, stupidity and an obsession with a lie – the state is determined to shut down our economy and make us pay for it.

          2. We are all paranoid in these times, Mr S. And they most definitely are all out to get us with their hypodermics and -get this – without the cap on.

          4. It may well be harder than you think, Jack. They will have ways of making us conform. Travel, shopping, hospitality, finance may well be blocked. Hopefully enough of us will say no. As someone who said ‘No!’ to the TB jab at 14 y.o. (and I have never had the annual ‘flu jab) I am prepared to batten down the hatches and stick it out until the bitter end.

          5. With the attempts to move us to a cashless society they only need to block our bank cards and we’re knackered pm.
            How many can manage without access to funds?

          6. So saying ‘No!’ is not as easy as you suggest. They will have us by the short and curlies….. and if we have smart meters for energy and water……. Existence would be futile.

          7. I refused today when the surgery rang me up to book a ‘flu jab. I pointed out I’d had one last year, it made me ill and I got ‘flu twice (I didn’t mention that I’m sure the second one was Covid) so I was giving it a miss this year (MOH wants it, so that’s ok). “So you’re declining,” she said. Yes, I affirmed, wondering what bit of “I’m going to give it a miss this year” she didn’t understand. I have, however, signed up to having a shingles jab. I am beginning to wonder if I should as it’s a “live vaccine”. Will I go down with chickenpox (which I never had as a child) as a result?

          8. If you didn’t have chickenpox, you deffo won’t get shingles. Shingles occurs as a result of your old chickenpox virus which lies low in your spine and gets you when your immunity is low, either through stress or getting on in years. Last year both elder son and p’dad had it at different times – elder son was off work work with burn-out for six months and developed it two months into that stretch, and p’dad, well, he is just getting on a bit but perhaps because of stress as well as I had three weeks earlier fractured my ankle. One cannot catch shingles from a person who is suffering from it, but if one hasn’t had chickenpox it is possible to catch that from someone with shingles as it is the same virus. Chickenpox is a fairly mild but irritating virus in a child, in an adult it is a whole lot nastier.

          9. Yes, the fact that the pox is nasty for adults is something I already knew. Should I cancel my appointment, do you think? I’ll still have to take MOH for the ‘flu jab. Will they drag me in and jab me anyway after I’d initially signed up for it? Decisions, decisions!

          10. I have cancelled appts for the shingles jab, with the weakened version of he virus, twice. I read the reviews for this version (Zostavax) and found them decidedly worrying. However, I am on the waiting list for the dead version of this virus (Shingrix) as it has fewer side effects and is more effective, allegedly. Unfortunately it is in short supply. It is more expensive than the Zostavax and is not given on the nhs.

            It is always possible that you did have chickenpox as a child but you simply forgot if you were a very young child or perhaps because you had a very mild version of the illness.

            The practice nurse tried to grab me for a ‘flu jab last winter but I escaped her clutches with a ‘No, thank you very much!’ as I sailed past her. You can always say you’ve changed your mind even up to the last second. You belong to you, not to the nhs nor the state, as much as both would like to think otherwise.

            For the reviews, I think I simply googled something like ‘shingles immunisation Zostavax reviews’.

    3. Essex actually asked to be moved to that level.
      If – IF – there are elections next May, to my knowledge there are now 3 lost Conservative votes.

  81. I note I got a down vote from JSP re tax in England.

    If the Scots don’t need English subsidies why doesn’t the First Minister of the SNP refuse to accept the money?

    1. A few years ago the Scots were paying more than their share of tax per head. No one ever suggested that they were subsidising England.

      Until devolution becomes independence (I hope it never does) there is no question of “subsidy” between the 4 countries (or the many very unequal regions) of the UK.

      But, if you cared to exercise even a little bit of brain you know all that.

      1. Tax isn’t just at the personal level, and if you had even a little bit of brain you would have known that.

        Scotland takes in from the UK far more than it contributes.

        1. Scotland takes nothing in from the UK, Scotland is part of the UK.

          I made no mention of personal taxation.

          Your comment is exactly why I simply downvoted you.

          1. You really are as stupid as most of us suspect.

            You wrote:
            A few years ago the Scots were paying more than their share of tax per head.

            And you now write: “I made no mention of personal taxation.”

            Your comment is exactly why I think you are a merely here to annoy.

          2. Back to personal abuse – and a complete inability to understand written English. I mad no mention of personal taxation (tax take per head does not mean personal taxation).

            I ask you to use your brain. You accuse me of not having one, call me stupid and then say that I am here merely to annoy.

            Hardly edifying.

          3. Tax per head is the damned definition OF personal taxation.

            Dear clucking life! Again, have you had a bad day? if so, let’s talk about it to help one another.

          4. You have absolutely no sense of how you appear here.

            You happily abuse anyone and everyone and then get all huffy when you get given a little bit of your own medicine.

            Look back over the entire exchange and you might see that the insults/personal abuse started from you. You initailly wrote:
            But, if you cared to exercise even a little bit of brain you know all that.
            And that was what I responded to.

          5. I asked you to use your brain, I did not state that you don’t have one. You didn’t “respond” at all, you simply lashed out – as you always do.

            So that’s no abuse from me, just asking you to think; abuse, lots of it, and now more of it, from you.

            That’s why I downvoted you. Because the level of abuse means the game isn’t worth the candle.

          6. Rubbish, you knew exactly what you were suggesting.

            You just don’t like to be called out for it.

            But that’s probably because you really are stupid.

          7. I was not suggesting that of which you accuse me. You “call me out” for your own anger and inability to manage it. Your accusation reflects your intelligence, not mine.

            The abuse continues unabated.

          8. You insult someone twice and call that abuse.

            You are stating untruths that must be challenged for reasonable debate. I don’t understand why you’re doing it. It is irrational.

          9. I remember when the Scots, people like Winnie Ewing, were bleating on about Scotland’s Oil.

            The fact that much of the oil was off Shetland and that the UK invested vast sums in the employment of the good folk of Aberdeen always escaped them.

            The English subsidise the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish and have done for decades.

          10. Can’t help noticing that you’re the only person in this forum to use downvotes.

            If you don’t agree with a comment, rebut it. If you have nothing to add, ignore it. Your downvoting just exposes you as the disagreeable, spiteful cailleach that you surely are.

          12. And the serial abuser – accusations of witchcraft do not, I am certain, fall within what is regarded as acceptable, even here – strikes again.

          13. If you’re thinking of the word cailleach it doesn’t mean “witch”, it simply means “old woman” and can be used, according to context, pejoratively or affectionately or anywhere on the spectrum in between.

            I’ll leave you to work out the context, but rest assured if I wanted to call you a “witch”, I would use the term bana-bhuidseach.

          15. What *is* wrong with you? You’re defending the indefensible, ignoring logic and reason, attacking people for no reason… it’s potty!

            There’s a huge debate to be had over how best to help Scotland grow to not be dependent on English cash, to resolve the welfare and PubSec dependence. Let’s hold that rather this pointless chucking mud over the wall.

          16. Oh grow up you silly twit. Righty, I’m going to be just as immature and downvote all your posts in an equal fit of petulance.

      2. Here I come again Jennifer and I’m going to disagree. Scotland has never, for the last 23 years, paid its share of taxes. Because of the tiny percentage of the small population actually working and thus paying tax, Scotland cannot pay its basic income.

        1. Scotland, very recently, had a lower unemployment rate than England or Wales so not such a small percentage of the population working and paying tax – and taxation is not just personal, and I did not refer to personal tax only “the Scots” and “Scotland” are interchangeable here (perhaps I should have made that more clear).

          Scotland has, in the recent past, paid more than its share of the total UK tax take.

          1. Nahh. If it had, why does it have a negative balance of payments despite the Barnett formula?

            Scotland has some fo the highest unemployment and welfare dependency in the UK. The reason for this is because the berks keep electing moronic socialists.

          2. I’m not sure where you are getting those stats from but it they are simply not correct. Scotland’s unemployment rate per capita is way above the UK average and had been so for a number of years. Unless the cult have changed the method of counting! Which wouldn’t surprise anyone with half a brain!

          3. ONS stats. Doing some comparative stuff between Wales and Scotland for a local politician a few years ago, one of my clients shoved the work my way and I didn’t turn my nose up at earning an honest penny hunting through the statistics. Of course I can’t find the figures I used now, and I didn’t keep copies of what I produced because it was confidential stuff and I was asked not to do so. Scotland’s unemployment rate was not as bad as it appears – partly because it is very variable between the different parts of Scotland. Until the latest downturn the Aberdeen area kept it above what the figures in the central belt would suggest it might be.

            https://www.jrf.org.uk/data?f%5B0%5D=field_taxonomy_poverty_indicator%3A870&gclid=CjwKCAjw5p_8BRBUEiwAPpJO6yFcCTdtVSQSiRlzqXegPqWzW3ySJRgtYwTm3r7XkiB8D_Thai7K7xoC5-AQAvD_BwE

            This is the latest I can find – you will see in the first graph that the working age employment rate for Scotland is above the UK line for most of the period from 2006 to 2016. The number of workless households is higher than the UK average, but the number in work is also higher.

      3. What is ‘their share’ of taxes?

        This idea is thrown around a lot – usually by the tax illiterate who think that companies pay taxes. As it stands, Scotland is a poor country which is reliant on English money. The English wouldn’t mind this if the Scots weren’t so damned ungrateful.

      1. Even so, if they go ahead with this they are doing what I suspect many would like to see happen here.

      2. The drawback to execution (or any other draconian sentence) for rape is that it leaves no incentive not to kill the victim. Dead victims don’t tell tales and conviction is less likely.

        Despite the Victorian description it is fairly questionable whether rape is, in fact, a fate worse than death.

    2. I’m not racist against Africans in Africa I am delighted they are there. I just object when they leave, come over here and start telling us what to do.

    3. Rabid racists?

      Frankly it sounds a punishment to fit the crime. I do object to the execution though. The state should never be allowed to kill.

      1. But it’s Nigerian, and normally by definition on Nottle, bad.

        My comment was tongue in cheek.

        1. Hmm. The broad brush ‘everything Nigerian is bad’ is wrong and offensive. Stop it.

          The behaviour of some Nigerians has been poor and *they* have been commented upon.

          1. That was an observation regarding comments on Nottle over a few years.

            I was actually being supportive of Nigerians in this instance.

          1. I agree, but when one watches evenings like this one, one can understand why he might not wish to join in.

      1. That sort of attitude is why we’re in the mess we are, to be honest! Dismissing an alternative leads to more of the same old, same old – eh voilà!

        1. Which credible centre-right party should we have voted for 2010/’15/’17/’19 GE Conway?
          “Credible” being the keyword.

          1. In those elections, the main parties weren’t “credible” in my view, but people voted for them anyway. Cameron? May? Bojo? Do you believe (the root of credible) any of these?

          3. How would you know if you dismissed the alternatives? It’s like the UKIP candidate in the next constituency, for whom I campaigned. She was told on more than one occasion, “I believe in everything you stand for, but I’m not going to vote for you”. They got a remainer pretending to be a leaver. They had a choice of a good candidate and turned it down – probably on the grounds you base your choice on.

          4. The only answer is for None of The Above (NOTA) to be a voting option and when NOTA wins the majority nobody is returned to office.

            If spoilt ballots and abstentions were added to the NOTA vote we might have far fewer useless self-serving MPs in the house!

      2. 325633+ up ticks,
        js,
        I can quite believe it & that is precisely why we have the odious paedophile issues.

  84. Evening, all. Operation “stock up ostensibly for Christmas, but in reality ready for the next lockdown” was successful and there are plenty of bottles stashed away. All I need now is not to have too many bad days so they will last 🙂

      1. I have just bought the spices and vinegar for the apple and green tomato chutney going into production tomorrow! Definitely autumnal!

      2. I haven’t got the Christmas cake yet, but I have the puds and the mince pies. I don’t do baking if I can avoid it – let’s face it, I don’t do cooking if I can avoid it! It’s another thing for which I have no aptitude and even less inclination 🙁

        1. Cakes and puds are very easy. ‘Pudding’ – the most comforting word in our language.

          1. “Easy” is relative! I find French translation/interpreting easy – lots of people don’t!

          5. If you can read and understand the English language and follow step-by-step instructions you will have no problems. Delia, patron saint of Christmas, would be a good one to choose, and she chats to you as she goes along, she is aware that many are cooking Christmas for the first time! What’s not to like? This could be your project for those lockdown autumnal days ahead. My personal tip – get the cake tin ready and lined with baking parchment the day before you start the cake. Accept the challenge of the wooden spoon and go for it!

          6. I’m more likely to be awarded the wooden spoon! This will be my fourth Christmas meal – I never had to cook anything when MOH was well. I just opened the sherry and enjoyed the repast. Now, I approach it like a military operation – H hour minus X minutes start this, H hour minus Y minutes, put that on … Occasionally, I even managed to get the operation to end with everything being ready at the same time! That is definitely a case of “I cook with wine and sometimes I even put it in the food!” 🙂

    2. I am very worried about these circuit-breakers everyone is talking about, Conners. Should I rush out and panic buy batteries? Or candles? Or both?

      :-))

      1. There is no harm in being prepared, Elsie 🙂 One of these days, when the wind doesn’t blow, the windmills will fail to turn, the demand will exceed the supply and we’ll all need candles, hurricane lamps, wind up torches and batteries. Don’t leave it too late 🙂

  85. The US Democrats are giving yet another demonstration of just why they are unsuitable to run even a bath.
    .
    The Judiciary committee dealing with Amy Coney Barrett has a rule that at least two members of the minority party must be present.
    So the Dems only send one person.
    Fortunately the Chairman made the point that he will do what the Democrats would do if the boot was on the other foot and carried on anyway.

    And these buffoons wonder why people hold politicians in such contempt.

  86. I have so many things to do, but my irritation today mounted to the point of making some new, “eminently sensible” government regulations. I would welcome any comments or witty additions before I release it into the wild.

    (Please note, this is NOT a snark at anyone who lives with their family!! Just a reaction from someone who lives on their own, and that not by choice, to the constant (except on here; thank you) refrain of “Just wear your damned mask! It’s such a simple, easy and obvious thing to do to protect others.”)

    New Regulations

    New studies have shown without doubt that the most common vector of infection for the coronavirus is the family home. From Monday, therefore, we will be requiring everyone to respect social distancing and wear masks within the home environment. This is a simple and effective way to halt the spread of infection. These easy rules protect the ones you love most!

    Will you be allowed to comfort a crying child? No, of course not. Do you want to kill your children? Two metres, remember. Obviously this will be difficult with a breast-feeding infant; in such cases, the guidance is to switch immediately to formula milk and limit contact as much as possible, in order to protect your baby.

    Naturally, no intimate contact is permissible, be it hugging or sex. If it is impractical to sleep in separate rooms, you should ensure that you face away from your sleeping partner at all times. Better safe than sorry!

    Masks must be worn at all times; your mask protects your family, and theirs protect you. Medical exemptions do apply, but remember, you’re potentially killing your partner if you choose not to wear one at any time.

    Remember, these rules are for the good of your family. And of course they won’t be for ever; just until a vaccine is invented and distributed to the entire world.

    Such simple, easy-to-follow guidelines help prevent you killing the ones you love. Of course we can’t see into your living rooms, but we know that you’ll do the right thing. If you dislike wearing a mask and practising social distancing within the home, you’re going to HATE seeing your loved ones laid out in a funeral home!!

    Just wear the damned mask and keep your distance. It’s not rocket science!

    1. The virus is passed on by infected people breathing it out, and non-infected breathing it in. Solution – everyone should stop breathing.

      1. No no, you need to breath so a sensible government policy will be:.

        Infected breath out on odd numbered days, non infected on even numbered days.

        1. I am getting seriously worried by all this discussion – the idiots will read it and implement it! Don’t give them any more crazy ideas!

    3. Whose family home are these idiots referring to? I imagine it is the multi-occupancy dwellings let out by their fellow countrymen to illegal immigrants, many doubtless of the Muslim faith. Allah will prevail, you are immune from infection because, er…. you are a Muslim.

      Of course the reality is that these unwelcome imports have damaged immune systems resulting from their race and from inter-breeding. The hotspots are in the densely populated immigrant areas of the UK.

      1. The idiots is me – sorry – it was meant as a satirical response to the idea that all the palaver we’re going through is somehow easy. What ridiculous times we live in, that it could be taken as gospel! Apologies.

    4. Whose family home are these idiots referring to? I imagine it is the multi-occupancy dwellings let out by their fellow countrymen to illegal immigrants, many doubtless of the Muslim faith. Allah will prevail, you are immune from infection because, er…. you are a Muslim.

      Of course the reality is that these unwelcome imports have damaged immune systems resulting from their race and from inter-breeding. The hotspots are in the densely populated immigrant areas of the UK.

  88. I agree that Covid is a potentially nasty virus, like the annual flu, especially if you are vulnerable and in your eighties or with other susceptibilities. But there can be no justification for lockdowns and other draconian measures which appear to be both deliberate and complete over reactions to the actual threat.

    This scam has now been exposed for what it is. We need to give notice to Boris Johnson and his feeble government that we know their end game and will resist it.

      1. I was invited to a Christmas meal at The Bunny Club on Park Lane back in the seventies. Each year the builder, Harry Neal, would invite me to a meal at one of the buildings they had worked on. I enjoyed memorable fare at Stone’s Chop House on Panton Street, the Tate Gallery Restaurant, the Berkeley Hotel on Knightsbridge (designed by Brian O’Rorke) and The Bunny Club.

        The least satisfactory meal was at the Bunny Club. I ordered lobster and got crayfish. It was rather unusual to be served by girls in net stockings wearing nothing much and in heels and where your nose was level with their crotch.

    1. There’ll be an event of sorts in the Royal Albert Hall too. I know that there’s definitely BBC coverage because I’m working with the archive producer. Not sure but I gather it’ll be pre-recorded and without an audience. (I only get to hear about the bit that concerns me – the bought-in footage!)

    3. Just wondering, how many of those old soldiers, sailors and airmen, denied a march-past this year, will still be here to take part next year?
      :¬(

      1. The 80th anniversary of the Battle of Britain service at Westminster just had a few bigwigs and a scattering of serving members as far as I know. It was as good as cancelled.

      2. What can we do to make sure Remembrance Day goes ahead? I am so furious that these morons dismiss our heritage.
        For flu!

        1. Rebel !
          Express disgust to your MP
          Petition ?
          Facilitate any veteran volunteers with transport and back-up …

      3. The “authorities” will close all the local stations and the roads too, so that the Black Cabbies can’t do their usual transporting either..

          1. I know the feeling. I bought this album in 1972. I still have it, and – even better – I still have something to play it on.
            The soundtrack to a mis-spent youth!

          6. Jimmy Page said that the guitar solo on Reeling In The Years (played by guest guitarist, Elliot Randall) is his favourite solo.

          7. Yup, I’ve got a record deck, and an amplifier with valves that glow in the dark and keep me warm in winter.

          9. Not PA gear. I was a hi-fi fanatic back in the 80s and 90s when it was still affordable. My system is very old school by modern standards, but it still sounds GREAT – at least to my fading ears!

          10. We had a fantastic horribly expensive Marantz deck. My old man went out one day to get a French stick from Tesco and came home with a sound system! No bread but…..

          11. I had a Garrard Deck, a very expensive amp (can’t remember the make) and two Wharfedale speakers (100w per channel). State-of-the-art kit in those days, and the sound was amazing.

          12. Garrard deck here too, DM. And an Akai 1030 tuner/amp and an Akai 4000DS reel to reel. Oh yes, and a large pair of Wharfedales. Wonderful sound and built to last, but it all took up a lot of space. I bought the whole lot with some money left to me by my dear grandmother in 1977, and for that reason I was very reluctant to get rid of it until about 15 years ago. This stuff is fetching silly prices now on Fleabay.

          13. I think we had a Garrard deck at one stage. Have no idea what happened to it, though. Perhaps when I’m clearing out I might come across it. I think the amp was a Ferrograph.

          14. I had an SP25 too and the same speakers (Linton rings a bell). The amp was something like a Trinitron (?) – stainless steel fascia.

          16. We’ve got home-made (by my father-in-law) speakers that act as pillars for a computer desk! They rocked the house when the bass was played at even half volume!

          18. They are incredibly heavy – I think they have lead in the bottom to stabilise them. My father-in-law was an engineer and I think you can say they are definitely engineered!

          24. “The soundtrack to a wellmis-spent youth!”

            btw, do you have a name you’re prepared to share?

          1. I don’t think so, neither of those names is mentioned in the Wiki entry for Python Lee Jackson. (Sorry for the late reply).

  93. The down voting nonsense continues.

    How about about a three strikes and you’re out rule. (i.e. Once you have used your ration of three downvotes you are banned?)

    1. That comment attracted a down vote, Rastus! I don’t bother too much about down votes to be honest – or, come to that, up votes. I say what I think and that’s that.

      2. “That comment attracted a down vote…”

        Try being centre-right posting on Breitbart and you’ll learn what downvotes are Conway.
        23 is my current record.

      4. Who down votes? I never do. And I never personally abuse fellow Nottlers even though I may disagree with what they say. The old rugby adage: Play the Ball and not the Man seems a sound adage to be guided by

        It strikes me that down voting tells us more about the down voter than the person who is down voted.

        2. I can guess who it was (the same person seems to delight in spraying around down votes). I will give you an up vote for your last sentence.

    2. There’s no rule against downvoting – it’s there as a facility and we can see who they are now.

      2. No, but it is bad manners!

        Many things which are immoral are not illegal – just as many things which are illegal are morally neutral!

          7. No, you can’t consider pregnancy to be “fat” and Grizzly did mention “the best things in life” amongst which incest cannot be counted because it is almost invariably (and the exceptions are vanishingly rare) against the will of one of the parties.

            If you want to include joint enterprises, they have to be “best” for both parties.

          9. No. But many only put on enough to amount to the baby and the fluid surrounding it. Pregnancy cannot be said to “make you fat”.

          13. Give it time and it will not only be legal, but encouraged and promoted 🙁 I was amused by JSP’s comment that pregnancy didn’t make women fat. Not that I’ve any experience of it, but I thought women were always complaining about the difficulty of shifting “baby fat” and getting their figure back.

          18. Impossible, and now you’re saying not readily obtainable. You’re the one who asked the question.

          19. They are not obtainable unless you add multiple murders to your idea.

            The question was asked in mild jest, your idea is clearly simply an attempt to start an argument.

            Goodnight.

          20. “The best things in life are immoral, illegal or fattening.”
            “Can you think of anything which falls into all three categories?”
            Back on my (you’re the only one on it) blocked list.

    3. If you hover your mouse over the number of votes, the name of the voter appears. On Chrome, that is.

  94. Earlier I posted a chart showing the total cases and deaths per 100,000 from COVID-19 for countries in Europe.
    The chart below reflects the same data from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control published today, 15th October 2020 but only for the most recent 14 day average:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6ef83a9a5400f850c46eaded0992b80f31e996f27baaa3b3218538a664a098e6.jpg

    It shows a significantly lower death rate per 100,000 cases than was evident in the earlier overall bar chart.

      1. Really strange, that. I mean they didn’t lock down and went for herd immunity; they ought to be dying like flies.

      2. ♬Don’t you know
        I’m still standing better than I ever did
        Looking like a true survivor, feeling like a little kid
        And I’m still standing after all this time…♬

      3. The Swedes were embarassed by the number of deaths incurred in the first wave and on reflection some of them did wonder if their no-lockdown policy was justified particularly considering the hit that their elderly population took.

        I’ve appended the raw data that was imported into my spreadsheet to make the bar chart so you can see that there were some deaths in the recent 14 day period – but the’re so small that they don’t show up on the chart.

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5c93d51c006bfef40862ab849b9150165582236abab7e8981b4c6294438cc4a1.jpg

Comments are closed.