Thursday 28 November: MPs must consider the whole of society in their debate on assisted dying

Posted on by Geoff Graham

An unofficial place to discuss the Telegraph letters, established when the DT website turned off its commenting facility (now reinstated, but we prefer ours),
Intelligent, polite, good-humoured debate is welcome, whether on or off topic. Differing opinions are encouraged, but rudeness or personal attacks on other posters will not be tolerated. Posts which – in the opinion of the moderators – make this a less than cordial environment, are likely to be removed, without prior warning.  Persistent offenders will be banned.

Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here.

792 thoughts on “Thursday 28 November: MPs must consider the whole of society in their debate on assisted dying”

  5. Good Morning Geoff and everyone
    Today's Tales – Shopping
    Diana and Barbara were in the shopping centre.
    “There’s my husband, coming out of the florist with a dozen roses. That means I’m going to have to keep my legs up in the air for three days,” said Diana.
    “Why?” said Barbara. “Don’t you have a vase?”

    A blind man went into a department store, picked up his guide dog by the tail and began swinging him around.
    A sales clerk came over and said, “Can I be of assistance?” “No,” said the blind man, “I’m just looking around.”

      1. Variation of the original…
        Man gives wife a bunch of flowers
        He goes upstairs to find his wife naked spreadeagled on the bed. "What's all this?" he said. "This is for the flowers" she said. "Why?" said he "Haven't we got a vase?"

  8. 397585+ up ticks,

    Morning Each,

    The day the majority voter learns from history there will be 32 days in April , same with old sayings as in " your number is up" will be a Saturday must watch along with the lottery numbers and maybe even a link to the lottery with a bonus of, win another month of life, YOU LUCKY PEOPLES.

    Thursday 28 November: MPs must consider the whole of society in their debate on assisted dying

    Panning out well yeah, the hard core, parties before Country, have certainly done a number on the innocents of the United Kingdom this time, haven't they just.

    1. 397585+ up ticks,

      O2O,

      The question is "What could possibly go wrong"

      remember,
      Yours is NOT to reason why, yours is but to do……

      Dt,

      Families cannot challenge assisted dying rulings under Bill
      Legal experts spoke to The Telegraph about their not inconsiderable concerns ahead of Friday’s reading in Commons

      1. Remember in this Bill a "responsible person" can make final decisions on whether a patient is eliminated.

        His/her decision cannot be challenged by families.

        What's your definition of a "responsible person"?

        An MP perhaps? A Diversity manager? A civil servant?

        Are you sure that this is the way to go?

        When you look at who is keen on this Bill you can see its dangers.

        1. If it were above-board, there would be unlimited challenges allowed. As none are allowed, it's definitely well dodgy.

  10. Good morning, chums. And thanks, Geoff, for today's NoTTLe site. Won't be here much longer, as I'm off to London for a meeting. Back later.

    Wordle 1,258 4/6

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    ⬜⬜🟩⬜⬜
    ⬜🟩🟩🟩🟩
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    1. Good morning Elsie and all
      Wordle 1,258 4/6

      ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
      ⬜⬜🟩⬜⬜
      🟩⬜🟩🟩🟩
      🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

  11. On public transport again today (notwithstanding yesterday’s absolute chaos and confusion at Waterloo last night).

    Some stupid letters (imho) in the Terriblegraph today. I wonder if they do make them up.

    Edit. Empty train. Man has sat right next to me with his cup of coffee and bad breath. I can tell it’s going to be a bad day.

    1. Why do you think the train was empty?

      I used to be able to clear a swimming pool of children to give a bit of peace to up-and-downers. I would leap in end, and at the other, there would be exodus of little ones screaming in terror at the scary beardy man in a speedo.

  13. One hundred years ago today:

    “One of the worst gales of recent years swept the country from end to end in the early hours of yesterday morning. On land and sea its track was marked by casualty. The most serious occurrence was the loss of seventeen members of the crew of the steamer Hartley, which foundered in the Channel. At Hull a dock labourer was buried and killed beneath a stack of timber that was blown over by the wind; at Southampton, in the height of the gale, a man was killed upon the railway; and at Leicester, a householder, his wife, and their infant child were seriously injured by the collapse of a gable into their bed-room.
    From the south coast, the east, and the west come reports of unusually heavy seas, of ships in distress in the Channel, the North Sea, and off the Isle of Man, and of gallant rescues by lifeboatmen and the crews of motorboats. In the early morning the cross-channel s.s. Dieppe ran aground at the entrance to Newhaven Harbour, and the tug Richmere, which went to her assistance, was driven on to the beach. All hands were rescued, and the Dieppe was refloated four hours later.
    The Continental passenger and mail services have all been maintained, but exceedingly rough voyages have been made.
    The fury of the gale was not confined to the coast. In Midland towns it played pitch-andtoss with tiles and chimney-pots, in the country it levelled ancient trees and ruined orchards; and it effectively deprived the majority of Londoners of their sleep.
    “NOT A STORM.”
    To those who live on “the Northern Heights,” near Hampstead-heath, or on the hills of Sydenham, it will come as a relief to learn that the shrieking inferno that made the night hideous was not a storm. Indeed, there appears to be some uncertainty as to whether it was even a gale. Gusts of “gale force” were certainly registered at Kew between three and seven a.m. – the highest gust reached fifty-seven miles per hour – but to merit the full dignity of the complete title the wind ought to have “kept it up” for a solid hour. This, according to the official records at Kew, it failed to do. Had it maintained a steady jog-trot of a mere thirty-nine miles per hour for sixty minutes not even the meteorological expert could have denied that it was a gale in very truth.
    In quarters where they talk in terms of isobars and are familiar with the inner mysteries of the anemometer, a “gale” is given three “forces” – “No. 8” representing a wind velocity of between thirty-nine and forty-six miles per hour, “No. 9” forty-seven to fifty-four miles, and “No. 10” fifty-five to sixty-three miles. Before it is officially recognised as a storm the wind must travel at sixty-four miles an hour – at least. Nowhere in the country during yesterday’s upheaval did the gale surpass “No. 10,” and only in one place – at Spurn Head – did it touch that force. The Londoner will be mortified at the knowledge that, although he had to wedge the windows and the doors in the middle of the night to prevent their rattling, and was called upon to pretend to his wife a confidence he was far from feeling in the stability of their roof, the cause of all the trouble did not even amount to “Force 8.” Perhaps the secret of the official attitude towards the winds that ventilate London is to be found in the Kew Observatory. Kew has a record that it seems disinclined to part with. Not for at least ten years has it registered a gale for London during November – the nearest it would go towards it was to mark a “gust” of about sixty miles an hour on Nov. 5, 1916 – and, despite the evidence of the Londoner’s own senses, it appears determined to hold on to that record for as long as possible. Evidently it has no intention of emulating the feat of Quilty, in South Ireland, which was struck by such a storm in 1920 that the pen of the anemometer went right off the chart – indicating a velocity of more than 110 miles per hour.
    ANOTHER ONE COMING.
    Yesterday’s gale was due to a depression which travelled from the Bay of Biscay and passed up the Irish Channel to the north. At one a.m. it was over South-west England; at seven a.m. it was over the Irish Sea, and between those hours the wind veered in sympathy with its movement. The first reports came in at one a.m. from Portland Bill, Cowshott, and Dungeness, where a “Force 8” wind blew. By seven a.m. the gale blew from the S.S.E. at Spurn Head, from the S.S.W. at Farnborough, from the S.W. at Shoeburyness, from the South at Lymne, and from the S.S.W. at Portland, Cowshott, and Dungeness. At Gorleston it touched sixty miles per hour at 6.25 a.m., and all round the coast it was still raging yesterday afternoon. And the forecast is not encouraging. In addition to what may be left of our visitor from the Bay of Biscay, we are promised the attentions of another of the same family that is travelling towards us from the Atlantic. But it is unthinkable that the second should be worse than the first; and, in any event, London may rest assured that Kew will not register a “gale.”
    It is interesting to recall that the “great storm” of 1703 occurred on the night Nov. 26-27, when some 8,000 persons were drowned in and around the British Isles.”

    2. The 'official' was referring to the Beaufort Scale and demonstrating a lack of perspective. I think most of us would use the term 'stormy weather' even if the wind didn't quite reach Storm Force 10 (55-63mph). Of course, the forecasters today have gone in the opposite direction…

        1. Has anyone ever seen her and her sister in the same room? Look at the CVs of both of them, they reek of hanging around the wrong people and implementing Agenda 2030. A very bad family.

          1. Had. Sister was the MP totalled in 2016 by a victim of Don't Care In The Community.
            Leadbetter inherited the seat.

    3. At a quick glance, she looks reasonably presentable for her age.
      However, a longer perusal shows a hardness to her features that are rather off-putting.

  22. 397585+ up ticks,

    May one ask ,
    Will these aircraft be tooled up as was the aircraft over the English Channel in 1939 /45 to protect British shores, or are they merely to check that the numbers are not flagging ?

    Dt,
    Planes with radar, hi-tech cameras and sensors to be used to spot Channel migrants
    Home Office hires second aircraft equipped with radar, hi-tech cameras and sensors to join mini-airforce that includes drones

  23. Reeves’ Farm Tax Set to Be ‘Five Times Worse’ Than Treasury Claims

    New figures have been produced by the Central Association of Agricultural Valuers on the Budget’s Farm Tax. Surprise surprise, the Treasury underestimated the number of farms affected by five times…

    The CAAV says that BBC Verify and the Treasury are wrong and 2,500 farms will be affected every year: “What they got wrong is, they didn’t know what to ask and HMRC couldn’t answer them even if they had.” They say HMT has missed out a substantial number of farmers who only claim BPR – farmers who own the land but not the farmhouse, for example, along with tenanted businesses. As everyone has been saying for some time now…

    The government’s rushed-out £3 million threshold defence also doesn’t hold water according to the CAAV because the £325,000 is used for personal assets – not farm ones – and tenanted farmers don’t have access to £175,000 of relief for their main residence. 2,500 farms a month means 75,000 over a generation…

    Farmers are currently protesting in Dover against the IHT changes. Downing Street is insistent the government won’t budge. Someone is going to blink first…

    27 November 2024 @ 15:58

    1. Does anybody seriously believe that the government's intention is not to destroy farming and radically change rural society?

      1. What most people here believe and what most people in the country believe are sadly very different.

  25. MPs must consider the whole of society in their debate on assisted dying

    This is all about falling into line with a globalist agenda, so hence the support of Cameron.
    I expect it to go though and be rubber stamped.
    On another point, I may have it wrong but Esther Ranzen appears to be doing very well with her stage four lung cancer, my dad barely lasted six weeks after his diagnoses.

    1. I've had the same uncharitable thought.
      It does seem to be going on a bit.
      Un soupçon of dramatic licence, mayhap?

      1. What!?! That doughty champion of the little people and distorted vegetables?
        Say it isn't so.

    3. "…Esther Ranzen appears to be doing very well with her stage four lung cancer,"

      It seems to have given her something to live for.

      1. 397585+ up ticks,

        Morning BB2,

        Fear of facing the reality of what their continuous voting pattern has created, in the main.

  29. First, admit radical Islam is a threat to us all. Second, do something about it.

    What's to do?

    Home Culture War First, admit radical Islam is a threat to us all. Second, do…

    1. It's coming.. what ever it is you want to complain about.. do it now because Blasphemy laws are coming.
      .
      Tahir Ali MP
      @TahirAliMP
      During PMQs today, I asked the Prime Minister to introduce measures to prohibit desecration of religious texts and targeted vilification of all the prophets of the Abrahamic faiths.

      As November marks Islamophobia Awareness Month, it is vital the Government takes clear and measurable steps to prevent acts that fuel hatred in society.

        1. No free speech. No freedom of movement. No qualifications. No job. No home you can afford. etc etc No life worth living.

  30. Snippet from Sam Ashworth-Hayes in the DT on "The ‘diversity’ con has just been exposed"

    "It seemed too good to be true – and it was. As a pair of academics have argued, the measurement McKinsey chose didn’t show that more diverse companies were more profitable. It showed that companies that were more profitable subsequently chose to hire more diverse candidates. Diversity in and of itself had no statistically significant relationships to profits, sales or a host of other metrics."

    DEI and McKinsey. Worthy contributors to Blighty's decline and fall.

    1. IIRC, McKinseys is the company where both Jeremy Hunt and Dido Harding started their careers. Or so it was said at the time.

        2. The things that your teecha is liable to teech ya – it ain't necessarily so!

          The things that you're liable to read in the Bible – it ain't necessarily so!
          Now don't be so sure an' believe in the Koran – it ain't necessarily so!

  32. Planes with radar, hi-tech cameras and sensors to be used to spot Channel migrants. 28 November 2024

    Two passenger aircraft equipped with radar, hi-tech cameras and sensors have been hired by the Home Office to provide 24/7 surveillance of migrants trying to cross the Channel in small boats.

    I assume that this is to make sure that there are no traffic jams?

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/28/two-planes-surveillance-migrant-boats-channel-spring/

    2. Yet another waste of resource from UK government who don't even seem to acknowledge this let alone a solution. Bit surprised no incidents yet with other Channel traffic, far as I'm aware. Reason/excuse seems to be we need immigrants to fill job vacancies…what? which vacancies, with what qualifications – and we have approx 3million on LTSB, that number seems to increase not decrease. Germany encourages immigrants to keep travelling to the UK because 'there are many black market jobs there'.

    3. To make it more efficient to pick them up and bring them here. If they sent out fast cutters to turn them back it might actually be useful.

  33. Good morning all.
    A bright sunny start with very little wind, a clear sky and the rising sun lighting up the trees behind the ex-pub opposite.
    A rather cold -5°C on the yard thermometer this morning, though when the DT came to bed last night she told me it was down to -8°!

  35. 'Morning All
    I see we're to be kept even more in the dark and fed bullshite
    "The government has now incorporated counter terrorism policing into the Defence and Security Media Advisory Committee notice system. A D-Notice instructs news outlets not to print details which are considered sensitive for national security reasons.

    The system’s extension was “unanimously agreed” and effectively restricts newspapers or broadcasters from providing details to the public on matters of counter terror policing deemed sensitive by the government"
    Medley
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/9a9c331b6f482e4184e2aeeafd2f8d542a02688466ac35d05e3b8974ec69cdfe.jpg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/22d8ac8e6280de918a252b35daa815bfcdcaebbfb3d1cf1a6e3ed2a60b4398a7.jpg
    https://media.gab.com/cdn-cgi/image/width=568,quality=100,fit=scale-down/system/media_attachments/files/169/129/026/original/f15411dd3acf9775.jpeg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e90b1e3d094ccc94d058d276ed80b2d4fa4c7a159f911fee1c5de7577206b2e3.jpg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5b41de662dcf4d74d7b2aa5cf14bc274e434ad3a20cfa3fa7906c9ea14fac6a0.jpg
    http://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/bdaaeeac4fb3367a5e67eea34d0f3bcd14e28cf7f3cc49d3e431319e9791d015.jpg
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/a9b6f3d6f1cf1fd4c4e685472d891b535dd4616b9c5f2b57967984420c7988e2.jpg

    1. Why do Yanks always piss and crap in a "bathroom" or a "restroom"?

      Don't they have bog-standard stand-alone lavatories?

      1. Powder room, comfort station, little girls' room : choose your own euphemism.

        There were two young fellows from Ryde
        Who fell into a privvy and died
        Their unfortunate brother
        fell into another
        And now they're interred side by side.

  36. Sharon Stone blames ‘ignorant, uneducated’ Americans for Trump’s win
    Actress is the latest celebrity to speak out following the election after Alec Baldwin called the population ‘uninformed’
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/us/news/2024/11/27/sharon-stone-blames-ignorant-uneducated-americans-trump-win/

    Is it Emma Thompson or Angela Rayner who wants more to imitate Sharon Stone's political opinions or her uncrossed, knickerless legs?

    I wonder why the DT did not allow this relatively mild ironic BTL comment.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/87cf2cdf137cbd48e517c35988f688520021e9ad008ee5c26b4ad5d6d6762c33.png

    2. Who did the vacuous bitch blame for Biden's win in 2020?

      Pig-ignorant ineducable Americans? That is certainly my take on the fiasco.

    4. After a couple of attempts I succeeded and left a message:-

      So, Sharron Stone is basically saying that, if you agree with her, you are wise and intelligent, but if you disagree then you are "******** and **********"?

      And why, DT did I have to put asterisks in place of two words that are clearly included in not only the article, but also the title?

  38. Substitute the word idiot for something more high falutin'.
    I view posting in the DT as a game.

    1. Sharon Stone can use the word 'ignorant' but those who disagree with her should not use the word according to the DT.

  39. Syrian rebels launch surprise attack against Assad. 28 November 2024.

    Syrian jihadists launched their first major offensive in four years against government positions near Aleppo, claiming to have captured several villages on the edge of the city.

    The surprise offensive by rebel forces belonging to Hayat Tahrir al-Sham (HTS) and allies saw heavy fighting on the western side of the city where front lines had become largely frozen.

    No doubt sponsored by Mi6.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/11/28/syrian-rebels-launch-surprise-attack-against-assad-regime/

      1. There is only one reason why Hezbollah and other terrorist groups sue for peace. To rearm and regroup.

  40. I am on the Telegraph Dating mailing list. Nearly all the offerings that come up and not worth subscribing for. Very many keep horses and want someone "Solvent, Enough, Comfortable or Wealthy" and like travelling and shopping. Why on earth would they want anything to do with a scruffy miserable ageing skinflint like me?

    However, once in a while one comes in that ticks all my plus boxes, and none of my minus ones, and I seem to match most of hers too. Such a one came in this morning – a long-haired rather eccentric countryside-loving home-schooler from Cheshire who is intelligent and has a wonderfully kind expression. Wow! Of course, I am far too old for her (she is 45 and I am 68), but age is only moderately important to her.

    Because I am a skinflint, I am not going to subscribe on spec, so the only option was to buzz off one of those horrible cheesy one-liners and hope for the best. If she responds, then I subscribe for a month.

    Now I must forget about it, and try to summon up the strength to start on housework, neglected for thirty years so I have somewhere to put a mug of tea down on.

    2. Good morning Jeremy .

      Sounds as if you could do with a swarm of house cleaners in for a few days , then you might have a few surprises .. abandon your skinflint ways for 48 hours 😉

  41. Yo all, from a cold, but sunny Costa del Skeg

    Will 6 January go down in history like 5 November?

    Parliament is going to debate the petition you signed – “Call a General Election”.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/700143

    The debate is scheduled for 6 January 2025.

    Once the debate has happened, we’ll email you a video and transcript.

    Thanks,
    The Petitions team
    UK Government and Parliament

  42. Silicon Valley venture capital firm Andreessen Horowitz has set off the alarm bells in his Joe Rogan's podcast..
    Just sub Biden Administration shenanigans.. for Starmergeddon. Scary.
    Here's a summary:

    "We had meetings [Biden officials] this spring that were the most alarming meetings I've ever been in. Where they were taking us through their plans, and it was – basically just full government – full government control – like this sort of thing, there will be a small number of large companies that will be completely regulated and controlled by the government..

    Only 2-3 AI companies would be allowed to exist.
    Complete control over development.

    30 tech founders were secretly debanked.
    No warning. No explanation. No appeals.
    Pure, silent government power.

    The government workforce has been exposed:
    • Half never returned to the office after COVID.
    • Some show up just one day a month.
    • Yet, they still collect full DC-level salaries.

    Our national security is hanging by a thread:
    • 90% of US military drones are Chinese-made.
    • FAA regulations wiped out American manufacturers.
    Each drone has the potential to be a weapon—or a spy platform.

    They’ve already tested this level of control on our food system:
    • The USDA promoted high fructose corn syrup everywhere.
    • Created the infamous upside-down food pyramid.
    Now, they’re aiming for the same dominance over tech.

    "If you thought social media censorship was bad, AI control will be 1000x worse. It's going to be the control layer for everything:
    Your kids' education, your loans, your front door."

      1. So do all my dogs. Perhaps we could replace Starmer with Mongo, Reeves with Lucy and Raynor with Oscar?

    2. I – along with many others – have been saying this for several years now: the WEF/Globalist plan is for the fusion of Big Government with Big Business. There will be no room for small companies, or small farmers, and entry costs into business will be kept prohibitively high by rules, regulation and red tape. The name for this system is Corporatism, a form of socialism practiced by the socialists Hitler and Mussolini, who defined it as "All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state", though he called it fascism.

      1. "They said don't even start startups – there's just no way that they can succeed – there's no way that we're going to permit that to happen."

  44. Sadiq Khan gives taxpayer cash to campaigners who want a world without borders
    Money used to fund Migrants in Culture that believes London ‘built off the efforts’ of migrants
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/11/27/sadiq-khan-civil-futures-migrants-in-culture/

    BTL

    Had there been mayoral elections 30 years ago would a candidate like Khan have ever been elected?

    Khan has learnt from his own experience that the best way to win an election is to make sure the electorate is one which will vote for you. If they don't vote for you – change the composition of the electorate.

    1. Bertolt Brecht.

      “Some party hack decreed that the people
      had lost the government's confidence
      and could only regain it with redoubled effort.
      If that is the case, would it not be be simpler,
      If the government simply dissolved the people
      And elected another?”

  45. Today on Free Speech The Duke tells of Labour's long standing-plot to destroy public schools and impose a State monopoly on education in his article ‘ The Labour Party Keeps A Promise’ .

    I you have not already done so, please sign the petition to parliament calling for a new general election At 0800 this morning it had attracted 2,750,970 signatures, up almost 200,000 since 08:00 yesterday. It is not going to result in a new election, but it is highly embarrassing for the Labour tin pot tyrants, and might encourage more to cross over into the resistance. Please sign by following this link . They have now declared that parliament will debate this on January 6, but the petition is open until May. Another devious plot?

    Energy Watch: Demand at 0800: 39.394 GW. Supply: Hydrocarbon = 54.7%; Renewables = 12.2%; Nuclear = 7.5%; Biomass = 7.2% and Imports 12.2%.

    It is obvious that, on days like today that the wind doesn't blow, they have to increase the amount of electric power imported from the continent i.e; the UK is not self-sufficient.

    https://www.freespeechbacklash.com/

      1. Yes. But why? The petition is open until May. Frankly, I do not trust the government at all.

        1. It passed the necessary thresholds.
          The sooner they debate and reject it, the sooner they can go back to business as usual.

  47. Доброе утро, товарищи,

    Frosty at Tighe-McPhee with light cloud cover, wind East 0℃ risng to no more than 4℃ today.

    We need to keep eyes and ears on this.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/5a505b0205f4304b2f7d32d6f75f8623b68a06946844a0863ea125ab6e7aeed8.png
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/11/27/sir-keir-starmer-opens-door-to-islamophobia-law/

    No such legislation is acceptable in my view. Perhaps we should start another petition.

      1. 397585+ up ticks,

        Afternoon G,
        I did mention in an earlier post a bounty is just not a nice chocolate.

    2. Funny isn't it ,if the Islamophobia law gathers momentum, it will give carte blanche to bods of a similar vein to Fayed , who will wreak havoc against white women and boys , and their own .

      I have always suspected that Charles 's late wife was a victim of intensive grooming by the Islamic men she was courted by .

      I wonder who will be the first Islamic MP to fall from grace in this current parliament .

    3. This is why people have voted to get rid of him, what he is doing is highly dangerous and will be an absolute disaster.
      If these mind benders don't like it here they can and should leave.

      1. Their mindset is that if they don't like it, they will force it to change. Pity we don't have a similar mindset towards our politicians.

    4. You will notice that Tahir Ali specifically mentioned the "Abrahamic Religions", non of the others. That is because Christians and Jews are people of the book (the Koran). All other religions are not afforded any protection. They are beyond consideration worthy of mass murder and genocide. If you think I'm exaggerating please read about the massacres of Hindus and Buddhists who are treated as non persons by Islamic doctrine only fit for killing or slavery.

      1. Some don't think Islam is an Abrahamic religion, that Allah = Baphomet, Baal or Molloch. It would fit with their general attitudes to non-muslims.

        1. Personally I don’t think it is an Abrahamic religion at all. Just because some neurotic in Arabia heard stories from Christianity and mangled them to the point that he actually thought the Trinity included the Virgin Mary, does not make his fraud Abrahamic.

      2. Some don't think Islam is an Abrahamic religion, that Allah = Baphomet, Baal or Molloch. It would fit with their general attitudes to non-muslims.

  48. They may close down as many Smithfields and Billingsgates as they choose.

    It will never stop me eating and becoming nourished on proper food: i.e. meat, fish, cheese and eggs.

    I will never permit my brain to become atrophied — in the manner that vegan quarter-wits readily accept — by weed-ingestion.

    1. We had to walk through Smithfields last July to get to St Barts hospital from the railway station. There was hardly any thing happening there.
      Apparently that's been the case for quite a long time.

      1. Yes. The majority of butchers and fishmongers migrated online. Only the sentimental diehards remained.

    2. Morning, Grizzly…what do you reckon those foods have in them in terms of pharma in food/weedkiller on fields etc (unless you buy from a guaranteed source, more expensive, I think you mentioned your local butcher)? School dinners quite a problem, I think.

      1. Plant-made Pharmaceuticals (PMPs) 'Biopharming' involves the use of genetically modified (GM) plants or plant cells to produce proteins of therapeutic value. It combines the disciplines of biopharmaceutical production with molecular genetics for agricultural biotechnology.

        The real reason for genetically modified crops.

        1. I thought it was to keep pests at bay, I think used in those huge polytunnels we see at the side of motorways, growing the salads, tomatoes etc….

  49. Morning all 🙂😊
    Lovely sunny start but of course the price is, its very frosty.
    Mps can't possibly consider the whole of society in anything. As we know, It's all about themselves and hanging on to the 'jobs' they have and all the other side lines and benefits available to them. They never listened or react to public opinion. That's why this petition will be stranded. All though it will be discussed in January most of them would have already made up their minds to reject it.

    1. Of course they will reject it, that's a given. Turkeys and Christmas, and all that. Some Labour MPs may realise that they only have 4 1/2 years left, so they will no doubt up their antics, in order to do as much damage as they can in the time they have left. Frighteningly, that is a great deal of potential damage.

    2. I absolutely agree with every single word.
      We have idiots trying very hard to prove that they are not actually idiots, but they never succeed at anything but proving that they are complete idiots. Who only care for themselves.

    1. This Bovaer is definitely a wonderful idea.

      The statement by the manufacturer that it damages male reproductive organs will ensure that

      very few farms can be left to descendants of farmers.

      A marvellous way to increase Treasury income whilst getting Ms Reeves off the hook.

      I commend this proposal to the House.

    2. And when something like mad cow disease appears, no doubt they will already have Prof Ferguson lined up to determine the necessary slaughter requirements and funeral pyres.

    4. I'm not sure how politicians etc. will avoid the outcome – unless they all get their milk from "safe" sources.

      1. 397585+ up ticks,

        Morning HL,
        I believe they will use in house cows, and there sure are enough of them.

      2. Things might start to change when it dawns on satan's little helpers that there is no room for them at the top table.

    5. Only for use in lactating cows, and can damage male reproductive systems.

      I see no guarantee that it won't come through in the milk or meat. Gee, I really do wonder what the agenda is here…

      Bit like that Kenyan 'TB vaccine' that was only for women between 15-40, and when analysed, proved to contain substances harmful to female reproductive health.

      1. As I suggested our politicos take absolutely no notice at all of public opinion. Sadly they rule the roost. It stinks.

      2. The public have no influence over Wastemonster at all. The overall arrogance of them all leaves no gaps.

        1. Career politicians. Some say ‘use it or lose it’…I suspect already lost, the fix is in – to reverse Brexit, back to the EU/aka ‘you’ll never leave’.

    2. That would be used as the thin end of the wedge in order to get us back into the EU, despite the circumstances being somewhat different. The principle would by some (I don't agree with it) be argued to be the same, ie. a referendum/vote was taken and won on the basis of misrepresentations…

    3. That would be used as the thin end of the wedge in order to get us back into the EU, despite the circumstances being somewhat different. The principle would by some (I don't agree with it) be argued to be the same, ie. a referendum/vote was taken and won on the basis of misrepresentations…

      1. There will be even more need for elections – just that we won't have them. I know what you meant, though – that's a socialist mantra.

      2. There will be even more need for elections – just that we won't have them. I know what you meant, though – that's a socialist mantra.

    1. I think Arla runs the UK dairy industry, Rik – might be difficult to buy eg milk (all supermarket own brands are rumoured to be Arla). Might get some local milk from local farm shop, try that?

      1. The soil association does not permit additives like this for organic farming
        Duchy Organic it is then

        1. The soil association will be infiltrated just like other organisations. Then they will change the rules.

        1. Around 70 years ago, our (unpasteurised) milk came from local farm, we had no fridge, milk delivered daily. I think conditions at local farms were often less than top-notch cleanliness-wise. Now, it’s all automated, tankers collect the milk, all pasteurised. Friend of mine used to collect the milk from small farms, gave it up eventually he said conditions were so filthy (which isn’t to say all small farms are like that, but a different friend used to drive tankers at night, saw many pairs of small green lights in his headlights)…never more than a few feet away from rats (four legs good two legs bad), or so I’m told…….

          1. Perhaps Bovaer will attack the reproductive organs of rats as well as humans.

            There might be a small amount of good, although farm cats are in danger

          2. Perhaps – I suspect lab rats already been tested and ‘found to be within limits’ etc. Best cat I ever had was a farm kitten, unwanted. Great mouser, I used to find their small heads on my doorstep (looked like bumble bees at first glance)…think they were her trophies 🙂

          3. If only! Our dear (now old) cat was a mouser in reverse – she used to bring in a mouse, play with it for a bit and then let then scuttle away somewhere in the house. No doubt they bred.

          4. Yes, they do…house mice are different to field mice, they fight if they meet – house are grey/field are brown – who knew mice were racist. Generally speaking the fields come off worse, being smaller. Rats a whole other issue…..

          6. Good to know you know your DEI, Hertslass…here’s a couple of important badges for you to wear (at all times) 🤣🐭🤣🐭🤣🐭🤣🐭🤣🐭🤣🐭

          10. Perhaps Bovaer will attack the reproductive organs of rats as well as humans.

            There might be a small amount of good, although farm cats are in danger

    2. 397585+ up ticks,

      Morning Rik,
      Just answered them on the poison additive but congratulating them on their DEI move.

    3. It's not just milk, butter, yoghurt and cheese, it's all processed foods containing milk products, plus processed meat products from unverifiable sources. Tinned soups, stews, frozen dinners etc. Biscuits, cakes, chocolate, pasta sauces…
      If you don't make your food from scratch and buy from known sources, you're going to get this stuff in your system.

  54. Heartbreaking (Peter Lynch).

    The recent “Heretics” podcast was interesting.

    https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/heretics-andrew-gold/id1515932214?i=1000678092611

    ”“There was a stabbing incident, people start tweeting about it, later termed misinformation and disinformation that he was a Muslim. That's the more details that are revealed, the more it looks like it's the government that's covering things up. Real hardened criminals were let out in order to put in people who are, you know, communicating about this.

    Instead of finding these men and civilizing them, these governments manipulate the data, hide the data. I mean, it's weird, how do you think this is going to end up?

    How do you think this is going to end up?

    The policies of multiculturalism, those policies are not working out. Those who don't want to assimilate, we can't carry on like this…..”

    From heretics. | andrew gold: The Government is Covering Up Islamic Terror – Ayaan Hirsi Ali, 26 Nov 2024
    https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/heretics-andrew-gold/id1515932214?i=1000678092611&r=60
    This material may be protected by copyright.

    1. Au contraire; the policies of multiculti are working out; the indigenous culture is being systematically destroyed.

  55. Morning all.
    With regard to Starmer, censorship and Islam. People should watch this, I don't think I have posted it before? Although I did post another about him. I will post that again for those who missed it. Together they portray a a psychopath with strong sympathies for Islam and, in my opinion, a traitor, a serious threat to Britain.

    Keir Starmer’s Terrorist Clients

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY19Q2e95n8
    This one, below, I posted a little while ago. Together they paint a very unpleasant picture indeed.

    The Evil History of Keir Starmer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTmdcynhGi0

    1. Yes, his notion of human rights seems solely concerned getting criminals as little as possible in terms of punishment, and as much as possible of our money in achieving that.

  56. Morning all.
    With regard to Starmer, censorship and Islam. People should watch this, I don't think I have posted it before? Although I did post another about him. I will post that again for those who missed it. Together they portray a a psychopath with strong sympathies for Islam and, in my opinion, a traitor, a serious threat to Britain.

    Keir Starmer’s Terrorist Clients

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY19Q2e95n8
    This one, below, I posted a little while ago. Together they paint a very unpleasant picture indeed.

    The Evil History of Keir Starmer
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTmdcynhGi0

  57. Hear you, Rik. I like that brand too, possibly it's limited in terms of sales, there being a rise in UK population. I no longer trust any food manufacturer, but I need to eat……

  58. Migration figures are frightening despite the fact they have fallen from 906,000 to 728,000 to June 2024.

    I gather that is in six months?

    Actually they are quarterly

    So what are the figures now ?

  59. Good morning Nottlers, it's crispy this morning and has only just dragged itself above zero. I finally treated myself to a new tablet, as the old one wouldn't load this page, or a few other of my daily reads. I was reduced to finding most of my 'news' on X. Thank goodness for Elon Musk. It's been quite a while, but I hope you have been carrying on regardless.

  60. Thanks Eddy. My husband and children have never voted, they sussed years ago it made little difference. I, on the other hand, have voted since I could – no longer. Democracy dead or dying.

      1. Would definitely have agreed at one time, Hertslass. Now they’re Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Reform the last arrow in the quiver.

      2. Indeed it has. The better option is to attend the polling booth and spoil your ballot. Spoiled ballots have to be recorded, 'no-shows' can be ignored, and are.

  63. Hello NoTTlers!

    There seems always to be a lots of knowledge here, and I wonder if anyone can sort out a little conundrum in my head (I am not much good at physics!)

    We have a combi boiler and a central thermostat. We also have individual thermostats on all the radiators.
    If our temperature on the central thermostat is set at, say 18C, is it more or less efficient to have radiators on at full (5) or, say, half (3)? This is irrespective of how warm we actually want any particular room to be? The question is in this context:

    My instinct is to think that if there is a particular amount of water that is circulating through the system, then that water is at a certain temperature to start with. The more that temperature is "used" as it goes round the house by higher settings on the radiators, the colder it is when it returns to the boiler and so the boiler needs to do more heating to get it up to temperature again. So having some radiators on full blast actually needs more heating of the water to keep them at their setting. In that case, overall it would seem more efficient to have the setting at 18C but keep some radiators full blast (5) and some at a lower setting (3).

    On the other hand, says my confused head, if the water goes through all the radiators, and they all reach their optimum temperature at (5), then they stay warm, and not so much is lost in maintaining that temperature. So the reheating part is actually minimal, and it could be worth having the central temperature set at, say 17C but have all the radiators at full (5 )setting?

    My brain hurts…

    1. The valve's on the rads control the income of the circulating heated water. The system will bypass the rads with the locked valve. The best option is to select a lower temperature on the boiler when it not so cold the boiler won't work so hard. But turning up the boiler control will allow more and hotter water to continue to circulate. But bypassing the cooler settings on your rads.
      The room stat only opperarates in the room where it is positioned..

      1. Thank you Eddy,

        I was talking about the main thermostat which controls the heating generally. It seems that it is better to have ALL the rads full blast with a slightly lower set boiler temperature, than to have any rads at all at a lower individual temperature while the main thermostat is what I ideally want for the rooms where they are full blast. As our internal doors are open, heat does go from one room to another to some extent.

        1. Some years ago I had a new boiler installed, more powerful than the old one. The house is small and the radiators don't have variable control. The first time I put on the heating I could smell it – the radiators were almost dangerously hot. The boiler temperature was set at the 'recommended' level for hot water but that was much too high for the radiators, even though the room thermostat was set at a sensible level. Set your boiler temperature at a lower level when the heating is on – only turn it up for as long as it takes to heat the water.

          1. I had the radiators with an old system, which didn't have a central thermostat. We installed a new combi boiler a couple of years ago, and the central thermostat (which currently sits in the hall) came with that.

          2. Right, that just seems unusual to have both, thermostatic Rad valves and a central thermostat.
            I know a decent Heating and plumbing chap who lives near Park street St Albans, but I know he’s very busy at the moment.

          5. Thermostatic Radiator Valves
            When I had a replacement gas CH boiler fitted 8 years ago and had the radiators power-washed at the same time, the installation engineer told me I had to have Thermostatic Radiator Valves (TRVs) fitted to my First-floor radiators to comply with Building Regs. I disbelieved him and looked it up. Here is what I found, though I haven't checked WHEN those Building Regs came into force:

            Building Regulations state that every radiator that’s part of a wet central heating system must have a TRV, apart from those located in the same area as a room thermostat. This means that electric radiators don’t need a TRV, as they work using electricity currents and not water, but your standard radiators will need a TRV.

            I guess this must be true for all NEW installations, though my house is 46 years old and didn't originally have TRVs. The bedrooms that have TRVs have benefitted from them as some visitors like a cold bedroom, others don't. Could any Nottler(s) with more plumbing expertise comment?

            EDIT: didn't readunder to see the excellent explanation by Which?

          6. Many room stats were fitted in the entrance halls of the property.
            That’s where the temperatures fluctuate the most. Without TRVs a lot of the room’s would have over overheated. Especially if the doors were kept closed.

          7. Thermostatic Radiator Valves
            When I had a replacement gas CH boiler fitted 8 years ago and had the radiators power-washed at the same time, the installation engineer told me I had to have Thermostatic Radiator Valves (TRVs) fitted to my First-floor radiators to comply with Building Regs. I disbelieved him and looked it up. Here is what I found, though I haven't checked WHEN those Building Regs came into force:

            Building Regulations state that every radiator that’s part of a wet central heating system must have a TRV, apart from those located in the same area as a room thermostat. This means that electric radiators don’t need a TRV, as they work using electricity currents and not water, but your standard radiators will need a TRV.

            I guess this must be true for all NEW installations, though my house is 46 years old and didn't originally have TRVs. The bedrooms that have TRVs have benefitted from them as some visitors like a cold bedroom, others don't. Could any Nottler(s) with more plumbing expertise comment?

            EDIT: didn't readunder to see the excellent explanation by Which?

      2. Thank you Eddy,

        I was talking about the main thermostat which controls the heating generally. It seems that it is better to have ALL the rads full blast with a slightly lower set boiler temperature, than to have any rads at all at a lower individual temperature while the main thermostat is what I ideally want for the rooms where they are full blast. As our internal doors are open, heat does go from one room to another to some extent.

    2. Those radiators on the 3 setting on the thermostatic valve will close when that temp is reached and bypassed as radiators are in parallel. Those on 5 will remain open until that temp is reached but flow will continue at the system temp round the system in the pipes to which the rads are connected and will shut off when the system temp is reached

      1. Thanks FA,

        I got that, I just couldn't work out whether to lower the central temp. and put all the rads on max. or keep the slightly higher main thermostat which governs when the heating turns on, and turn a couple of the rads down…

    1. Hi MIB and Hertslass, been going on since start of November according to my webmail !!

      Morning to all Nottler’s too

      1. Morning, ImtDJ.

        If you don't mind me asking, were you someone else before or are you new – it's hard to keep up, sometimes!

        1. hi Hertslass , no problem – i am a long time reader and occasional poster – not new. best wishes

  65. Good to see you Feargal! I've seen you on X but wondered why you'd deserted us. Glad you're back here.

    1. Thank you. Once I’d worked out that the android system on my old tablet was the issue, i. e. I was no longer able to update/upgrade, it was time to break the piggy bank and buy a new tablet.
      After investigating whether i could access via my phone, the penny(ies) dropped.

  66. Closer and closer.
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14135817/russian-sabotage-nato-defence-clause-ww3-warning-fears.html

    Russian sabotage 'could trigger NATO defence clause' after ship cut undersea cables in the Baltic: Fresh warning sparks new WW3 fears

    Yet when one reads the article it appears that China is equally culpable. What does China get in return?

    The intelligence chief's comments have sparked renewed fears that the Ukraine war could escalate into WW3 after a report claimed that a Chinese cargo ship deliberately severed two critical data cables in the Baltic Sea in an attack orchestrated by the Kremlin.

    The ship allegedly dragged an anchor across the sea floor over 110miles while off-radar, with a senior investigator indicating that the ship's path must've been deliberate.

      1. I don't read the DM any more due to the terrible ads all the time to avoid the paywall. Not worth it.

      2. Possibly not, but given that many of their articles are lifted from other MSM sources I would extend the disdain across the spectrum.

    2. Nobody seems to know for sure who did it – so why blame Russia?
      (Yes, I know, I know…)

  67. Hard work today:
    Wordle 1,258 5/6

    ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
    ⬜⬜⬜🟨⬜
    ⬜🟨⬜⬜⬜
    ⬜🟩🟩⬜⬜
    🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

    1. Par four
      Wordle 1,258 4/6

      ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
      ⬜🟨⬜⬜⬜
      ⬜⬜🟩⬜🟨
      🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

  68. Morning all, I will not say good morning because it isn’t.
    The youngest grandchild thought they were helping me but deleted ALL my gmail emails.
    I’m afraid they have gone to that great big recycle bin in the sky.
    Reading articles I can find no way of getting them back, I suspect they are gone from the Google servers and Google Help is anything but.
    Hey ho, let’s move on!

    2. Silly question, but have you looked in "trash"?
      They might still be there, unless he emptied that as well.

    3. If they are just deleted from your mailboxes, they should still be in the 'bin' and easily recoverable from there. If the bin has been emptied, ask a 4 year old.!

      1. I’m afraid they are gone having been permanently deleted.
        No worries though, anything important they send again.

  70. That was what we were told. But all those insects, worms, slugs and snails, wasps and flies etc are all part of the biodiversity they keep wittering on about.

    1. Exactly so, Phiz. This year, a friend of mine dropped off a couple of gro-bags for me, I plan to grow salad (will probably need a good dose of luck :-D) I used to see a lot of snails, slugs, insects generally on my walks – no more, no thrushes either cracking their shells open and left for me to find). Something’s going on (and it’s not Climate Change).

  71. 397585+ up ticks,

    Just pondering a point,can't be long now before "they" start calling for, and getting the deportation of the indigenous peoples.

    Dt,

    Net migration hit record high of almost one million last year
    Spending on asylum also reached a record £5.38 billion – up 36 per cent

          1. We went to one of a few called Church View on a day trip. The guide (a pommy) said at the tasting, we really don’t mind if you swallow the wine or spit out out.
            When people do the latter, we save it all and ship it all to New Zealand..

      2. In the past when Europeans have been deported, they've established successful colonies in Australia, the Americas and on various islands. I wonder how present generations would fare?

          3. That is common sense. What’s common sense got to do with it? It’ll probably be pensioners first.

        2. And now in Oz urged on by far left wing whiteys the locals seem to do nothing but moan, about everything they can think of.
          But left to their own devices centuries ago the people in for instance northern QLD would have had no idea how huge the country was. With no means of travel would have never met their fellow's to be able to have a good moan.

    2. Not quite indigenous but some clowns are calling for everyone that is not first nations to be expelled from Canada. That's gratitude for you.

      2. But let me guess, they want to keep all the things invented by people from other parts of the world? Yeah, right!

  73. Morning T. 🙂
    The ‘government’ will only react to public opinion on the continuous flow of ‘advice’ from Whitehall.
    As we often saw in the TV programmes Yes Minister and Yes Prime minister. But in this particular stage of UK history the so misnamed ‘prime minister’ seems to be the leading opponent to fair claims regarding public interest.

  74. I agree, but realistically they have no right to simply push it aside.
    It’s about time they took notice of public opinion.

    1. Realistically of course they have no right to push it aside. In reality that won't stop them pushing it aside – because they can.

  75. 397585+ up ticks,

    I do believe a bounty is in many cases the answer, as a prime chocolate and other uses,
    can solve many a stress problem.

  77. I've work outside to do, but I've been getting the dinner started – Beef Stew with dumplings – whilst it warms up a little.
    Absolutely beautiful outside.
    To go with the stew will be potatoes, turnip, carrots and parsnips that the Grad.Son is under orders to get ready.

  78. My children say they want a cat for Christmas.

    Normally I do a turkey but hey, if it'll make 'em happy…

  79. Off topic
    Why would a plane appear fly strait for miles and then suddenly do a fairly tight "S" shaped route and then a very long 3/4 circle heading off at 90° from its original course?
    Judging by the contrails it was flying quite high initially and then much lower and then gained height steadily as it circled and flew away.
    Dumping fuel?

      1. Possibly, but we had military jets earlier today and they were not leaving contrails and they were much noisier, it looked more like a non military plane

        1. The Flightradar24 free app will usually give an indication of who it is although Im sure some military ops do not show. However, the EW flights monitoring Ukraine were there last time I looked.

      1. Or some one like me who years ago travelled to SA on an SA flight ..

        The flight had been delayed by nearly 24 hours because the incoming flight had Archbish Desmond TuTu on board and other SA dignitaries .. aircraft engine sucked in a goose !!!!!!!!

        Because of the delay , ! was accommodated in a nice hotel , moh who had delivered me to the airport , was also accommodated .. pure luxury .. even though he wasn't a passenger ..

        Next day , flight was resumed , club class, champagne and razzmataz, and several of us young ladies were invited to the flight deck (747) whereupon I was invited to sit in the left hand seat .. take the controls and take the aircraft up 1,000.. yes my hand was on the control column .. wow!

        That was over thirty years ago +

        When I told Moh the story , he had visions of me doing barrel rolls ..

        The SA cockpit then had no security .. and several passengers were allowed to visit it.

        When I was a child , travelling with BOAC , kids were allowed to take a peak , and our Junior Jet Club books were signed by the captain .

  80. With Christmas coming be extra careful on the roads as quite a lot of guys will be having a few drinks and letting their wives drive.

    1. Not seriously? CNN belongs to Warner Bros and NBC belongs to Universal Studios. It seems highly unlikely that either organisation will sell.

      1. About a week ago there were rumblings on New York Post about the two news networks being sold off.

        1. Ah, it's such a good idea but I couldn't see it happening! Warners and Universal may not be doing as well as they once did but they're still not hard up :-))

          1. Their years of left wing woke propaganda has made them look foolish. They are probably imploding. Still. They could always get Faguar and Bum Lite to advertise with them.

  82. I've given the Assisted Dying bill a great deal of thought, and on balance don't think I'm in favour of euthanasia on demand.

    I'm all for killing the old farts, I just don't think they should have a choice.

    1. They way the bill is going it will be up to a Responsible person (whoever that is) and the family will have no say.

      1. They can't even define a woman. How will they define a responsible person?

        A Doctor? Like Doctor Shipman or Doctor Barton? (Barton was responsible for nearly 500 unnecessary deaths at Gosport War Memorial Hospital. She still hasn't been prosecuted after 30 years).

        1. Indeed. Many things are turning out to have been tested in Scotland or Wales before they are brought here.

        2. I wrote a reply but it didn't seem to get online. Essentially is was just that a lot of what happens in England gets a trial run in Wales or Scotland first. That will get even worse, now that we have Labour in power here. Stupid,, stupid people who voted for them…

        3. I wrote a reply but it didn't seem to get online. Essentially is was just that a lot of what happens in England gets a trial run in Wales or Scotland first. That will get even worse, now that we have Labour in power here. Stupid,, stupid people who voted for them…

  94. Huge migration surge added almost a million people to UK population in a year: Extraordinary revised figures show inflow equivalent to two Leicester-sized cities – with the most arrivals from India, Nigeria, Pakistan, Zimbabwe and China.

    The UK's net immigration record has been smashed again with 906,000 now thought to have been added to the population in a single year.

    Huge revisions to official data show the extraordinary mark was hit in the year to June 2023 – and the figures remain at historically unprecedented levels.

    Official data covering the 12 months to June this year show long-term immigration was 728,000 higher than those leaving the country. That is almost as high as the previous record.

    But the bar has been shifted upwards by the Office for National Statistics, with net migration for the year to June 2023 skyrocketing by 166,000 from the initial estimate of 740,000.

    A similar revision has been made for net migration in the year to December 2023, which was initially believed to be 685,000 and is now put at 866,000, an increase of 181,000.

    The ONS said it now has more complete data and has also improved how it estimates the behaviour of people arriving in the UK from outside the EU.

    However, the latest dramatic revisions will fuel criticism of the stats body – which is already under intense fire for faulty jobs market numbers.

    The scale of the inflows – with the peak roughly equivalent to adding two cities the same size as Leicester in a year – immediately sparked a fresh political row. Numbers from outside the EU have exploded since 2021, after the Brexit deal took effect.

    The five biggest sources of immigration have been India, Nigeria, Pakistan, China and Zimbabwe. In the year to June 2023, 268,000 arrivals came from India alone.

    Kemi Badenoch used a major speech last night to insist the Tories would not allow Britain to be treated like a 'hotel' for migrants.

    In other developments today:

    The cost of the UK's asylum system has risen to £5 billion, the highest level of spending on record and up by more than a third in a year, according to separate Home Office data;
    Some 25,244 migrants have arrived on Channel boats in the year to September, slightly ahead of the figures for 2023;
    Some 66 per cent of small boats arrivals who received an initial decision in the year ending September were granted asylum. That was down from 86 per cent in the previous 12 months.

    Of the 1.2million people who came to live in the UK in the 12 months to June this year, around 86 per cent – a million – from outside the EU.

    Indian was the most common nationality in that group for for both work-related – 116,000 – and study-related – 127,000 – reasons.

    Some 845,000 were of working age and 179,000 were children.

    The ONS revised long-term immigration up by 82,000 in the year to June 2023, while emigration was shifted down by 84,000 – giving an overall net increase to the headline figure of 166,000.

    The net migration total for 2023 as a whole was increased by 181,000.

    The ONS said it now thought 43,000 more Ukrainians had come to the UK in the year to June 2023, and 30,000 more in the year to December.

    The body is also estimating that fewer EU nationals departed the country, and more students from outside the EU stay after finishing courses.

    The ONS said that while remaining high by 'historic standards', net migration is now 'beginning to fall'.

    Director Mary Gregory said: 'Since 2021, long-term international migration to the UK has been at unprecedented levels. This has been driven by a variety of factors, including the war in Ukraine and the effects of the post-Brexit immigration system. Pent-up demand for study-related immigration because of travel restrictions during the coronavirus pandemic also had an impact.

    'While remaining high by historic standards, net migration is now beginning to fall and is provisionally down 20 per cent in the 12 months to June 2024.

    'Over that period we have seen a fall in immigration, driven by declining numbers of dependants on study visas coming from outside the EU.

    'Over the first six months of 2024, we are also seeing decreases in the number of people arriving for work-related reasons. This is partly related to policy changes earlier this year and is consistent with visa data published by Home Office.

    'We are also starting to see increases in emigration, most notably for those who came to the UK on study-related visas. This is likely to be a consequence of the higher numbers of students coming to the UK post pandemic who are now reaching the end of their courses.'

    Migration Watch Chairman Alp Mehmet said net migration is 'still far too high and unsustainable'.

    More broadly, net migration in the last four years now stands at over 2.5 million, which represents population growth of 3.8 per cent – equivalent to the combined populations of Leeds, Liverpool, Sheffield, Manchester and Bristol.'

    Touring broadcast studios this morning, Home Office minister Seema Malhotra declined to say what level of net migration would be acceptable.

    Ms Malhotra repeatedly dodged, insisting policy must be based on 'a credible and serious plan' and the Government should not 'just pull figures out of the air'.

    She told BBC Breakfast: 'My point is this, we want to see net migration coming down, but we have to do so in a way that is tackling the causes of net migration, because if much of net migration has been driven by recruiting workers from overseas, you also have to look at what the impact on the economy would be.'

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-14136253/Net-migration-year-June-Tories-numbers-working-visas.html

    3. With the rich and the useful heading away from the UK, they will be able to massage the "net" immigration figures to make it look as though it's going down.

    4. "Seema Malhotra declined to say what level of net migration would be acceptable." There's a hint to the scale of the problem right there.

  95. Trump is the last chance to save the decaying West from terminal decline. 28 November 2024.

    The good news is that we are about to be jolted out of our socialistic stupor. We need to be forced to spend more on defence, which is exactly what Trump will make us do. We need to be shamed into showing some mettle in the fight against extremists and anti-Semites. We need to be nudged, cajoled and inspired: if Trump is successful in his first 18 months, the global Overton window will shift dramatically Rightwards, demonstrating an alternative to Britain’s Gaia-worshipping, soft on crime, quasi-open borders, pro-appeasement politics.

    Sounds good.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/27/trump-last-chance-to-save-decaying-west-from-decline-us/

  98. Ex-Tory MP Dame Andrea Jenkyns joins Reform
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/11/28/politics-latest-news-reform-uk-nigel-farage-membership/

    BTL

    Who else in the pipeline?

    It is high time that Jacob Rees-Mogg realised that the Conservative Party is no longer a party in which he should be.

    Many other committed Brexiters who lost their seats in the last election – together with those who miraculously kept them – should now be considering a move to Reform. Reform is not perfect but it still has abundant life in it unlike the Conservative Party which is no more than a corpse which is rotting.

    1. Rupert Lowe, M.P. was on GB News last night.

      We need more successful business people in the House of Commons.

      Mr Lowe also has a sense of humour – he is trying to find out how many pro-immigration MPs would be prepared to house an illegal immigrant in their own homes. After all MPs have the choice of whether to house them or not whereas hotels are suddenly filled with illegal immigrants without prior consultation with – or warning to – the residents on the area.

  99. Ex-Tory MP Dame Andrea Jenkyns joins Reform
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/11/28/politics-latest-news-reform-uk-nigel-farage-membership/

    BTL

    Who else in the pipeline?

    It is high time that Jacob Rees-Mogg realised that the Conservative Party is no longer a party in which he should be.

    Many other committed Brexiters who lost their seats in the last election – together with those who miraculously kept them – should now be considering a move to Reform. Reform is not perfect but it still has abundant life in it unlike the Conservative Party which is no more than a corpse which is rotting.

    1. Ben Habib is the best of the best. I think that those of us who have long felt uneasy about the machinations surrounding NF are vindicated. Reform MUST get its act together and not become RINO.

    2. Sorry didn't realize this had been posted. I just posted it again. It goes to my remarks a while ago. That I don't trust Farage. He is one big walking ego that must be the centre of attention. He's a fraud.

    3. Ben Ben Ben.. dear oh dear.. your argument would hold water if you had won that Wellingborough by-election on Thursday 15 February 2024. But you didn't. You lost abysmally.
      Richard Tice.. Ben & Reform were going nowhere.. until 4th June when Nigel announced he was standing.

      You do have a point though about the "That Lot" remark.
      Perhaps, when the time is right Nigel will go full-on Trump.

    4. Ben Ben Ben.. dear oh dear.. your argument would hold water if you had won that Wellingborough by-election on Thursday 15 February 2024. But you didn't. You lost abysmally.
      Richard Tice.. Ben & Reform were going nowhere.. until 4th June when Nigel announced he was standing.

      You do have a point though about the "That Lot" remark.
      Perhaps, when the time is right Nigel will go full-on Trump.

  101. I do hope Ben Habib and Nigel Farage manage to settle their differences.

    But hubris is the main flaw in Nigel Farage's make-up which he must learn to control.

    2. I wouldn't be offended. Some of those oils cost more than wine. Besides. If a guest brings wine it goes in the rack. I have already chosen the wine i am serving with supper.

  104. The Douglas Murray article (apropos True Belle’s post about an hour ago):

    “It is always interesting to watch the debates that roil a nation. So far as I can see, the current debate in parliament mainly consists of trying to work out whether the NHS is competent enough to kill people or not. This week one of our greatest Home Office ministers – Jess Phillips MP – was asked about the question of ‘assisted dying’. She said that, naturally, she is in favour of this ‘progressive’ policy. But one qualm held back her support. In Phillips’s estimation the NHS is ‘not in a fit enough state’ at present to kill patients on demand.

    Many people whose family members have gone through the NHS might beg to differ with Phillips on this point. In my own observation, as well as the evidence of neglect on care wards, cancer waiting times and much more, the NHS strikes me as being exceptionally well-placed to kill its patients. Many of them may not want to be killed, but it is an interesting argument to make: that the NHS is too busy killing people who don’t want to die in order to be able to perform the same service for people who do.

    In any case, there must be things that the nation could fix its eyes on other than just killing us all off. One issue that springs to mind is why consecutive governments seem to have decided the end-ambition of Britain as a country is that immigration must remain at such historic highs that everything in the land must be covered with ugly new housing developments.

    I was recently driving through a charming part of rural England. As far as the eye could see, ugly Barratt-style homes were being thrown up in order to satisfy the housing supply problem that this country un-arguably suffers from. Largely because if you have hundreds of thousands of new people arriving every year, you will have to build hundreds of thousands of new houses.

    I decided to check the average house prices in the area. The sum was £460,000. I decided to check the average income in the area: around £30,000 a year. The uglier two-bedroom houses started at £360,000. So someone wanting to get on the housing ladder in this area would have to take out a mortgage worth around ten times the typical income to live in a carbuncle.

    But since a young person starting out is unlikely to make the average income for some time, their mortgage would have to be much more than ten times their salary. They would also have to have saved up the capital to make some kind of downpayment on the property in the first place. And after paying the surprisingly high rents in the area, I am not by any means sure of how anyone could.

    After that, I drove to see friends in another part of the country for the weekend. On the journey I was unsurprised to see that new houses lined the once pleasant country roads on both sides like dull sentries. Again I checked, and the median salary in this county ranges from around £31,000 to £36,000 per annum. Average property prices in the area were, once again, around ten times its average salary. Looking online for somewhere I would not much like to live, I found a fantastically ugly new prefabricated terraced house for sale (two bedrooms) for a mere £280,000. Though it does come with the attraction of two parking spaces, assuming you can afford two cars.

    I just can’t see how any person in their twenties or thirties is expected to get on the property ladder
    In truth, I just can’t see how any person in their twenties or thirties is expected to get on the property ladder in this country. People used to say: ‘Well, you can move out of London.’ And that’s true. But even far out of the capital, house prices are at an equally disheartening high.

    Happily, there are some for whom justice in the housing market can still be found. The BBC this week ran a heart-rending story about a refugee family who had to move 60 miles in order to pursue their ‘one dream – a house’. The story described how a man called Moheand, his wife and children had made the journey from Africa to Northern Ireland hoping ‘to find a home’.

    The BBC has reported on the family’s plight before. In September they told how one of the children was having to travel 70 miles to and from school every day after his family was moved from Belfast to Newry, Northern Ireland. The boy was still at school in Belfast and the daily commute was certainly suboptimal. But it transpired that the family had come to the UK from Sudan five years earlier and had been in Belfast while they waited for an asylum claim to be processed. They had also had to suffer a period in which they were put up at a hotel in Enniskillen and then a period in a holiday chalet in County Fermanagh. ‘All I want is to get a house, that’s all, beside my school,’ one of the family’s children told the BBC.

    Now, in the latest update, the BBC reports that Moheand (speaking through a translator still, after five years in this country) said: ‘I want to know, this struggle, when is it going to end?’ The family were recently offered accommodation by the housing authority in Portrush, but they said they have never heard of this place before.

    I would guess that if you polled 20- to 40-year-olds across the UK, most of them would also not have heard of Portrush. Yet I am sure that many of them would also be thrilled to be given a family-sized home there. But of course they do not have that option, because they have the disadvantage of having been born in Britain. And thanks to consecutive governments, their disadvantages pile up one upon the other.

    Still, at least the younger generation can look forward to the period when Jess Phillips gets her dream. At which point it’ll be a toss-up as to which comes first: a starter home or euthanasia.”

    2. Had a row with the NHS a week or two ago. They confiscated my oxygen. Their reason was that I wasn't using it enough. You would think they would be pleased that I have been trying to chug along with out it.

      1. After 5 years Moheand still doesn't speak English. They refuse accommodation offered. "All I want" is a house next to school – that's what a lot of Brits would like too. What a bunch of entitled people – who do they think they are?

  107. In Phillips’s estimation the NHS is ‘not in a fit enough state’ at present to kill patients on demand.

    They have a problem, It is much less expensive to keep FOAD going than taking people into hospital to kill them.

  109. Paul Wood
    The SAS have been betrayed in the name of human rights
    From magazine issue:
    30 November 2024

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2024/11/SASCoverWeb-1.jpg?resize=1536,864
    he SAS are worried. Britain’s most elite military unit have come face to face with the IRA, the Taliban and Isis. But the enemy that really concerns them doesn’t carry a gun or wear a suicide belt. It’s the phalanx of lawyers they think are coming for them, armed with a deadly weapon: the European Convention on Human Rights (ECHR). Many SAS soldiers now believe that if they pull the trigger during an operation and kill a terrorist, they’ll spend decades being hounded through the courts. They don’t trust the chain of command to look after them. They accuse politicians of a ‘betrayal’. That’s hurting morale and may eventually hit recruitment. We may all end up being less safe because of it.

    This picture of discontent inside the SAS comes from George Simm, a former Regimental Sergeant Major, who wore the winged dagger for 23 years. I could not speak to serving soldiers or officers: the SAS observe a strict omertà. Simm was one of those who drew up the current contract forbidding ‘disclosure’ that everyone joining has to sign. He commands immense respect within Britain’s Special Forces and was once described as an SAS ‘centurion’. He was at the regiment’s base near Hereford recently for a funeral and heard widespread complaints. He says: ‘The mood in the camp is dark. They know that service with the regiment is maybe ten or 15 years – and the rest of your life is being chased by lawyers.’

    Simm tells me about someone he still calls ‘one of my young lads’, who served 34 years in the SAS, but who has been mired in a legal process for more than 20. ‘Soldier M’ was part of an SAS squad that killed four members of the IRA’s East Tyrone ‘brigade’ in 1992. The IRA men had just attacked Coalisland police station with a heavy machine gun mounted on the back of a lorry. They drove to the car park of a nearby church to change vehicles and dismantle the machine gun, but the SAS were waiting there for them. Soldier M and his comrades are being asked, once again, to account for their actions on that dark February night 32 years ago. This time, it’s an inquest, heard before a High Court judge and convened under the ECHR’s Article 2, which protects ‘everyone’s right to life’.

    To Irish Republicans, the four IRA men are martyrs, set up to be assassinated by the SAS, victims of a British government ‘shoot to kill’ policy in Northern Ireland. Simm says the SAS had to catch members of the IRA ‘armed, hooded and intent on killing’, otherwise they would just have to let them go. He dismisses the IRA as good at murder but not at fighting: ‘gangsters’ or ‘keen amateurs’.

    That fits with reports of the attack in Coalisland. The IRA ‘active service unit’ stopped during their getaway to fire into the air, wave an Irish tricolour from the back of the lorry and sing ‘Up the Ra’. But the weapon on the IRA lorry was a Russian ‘Dushka’, an anti-aircraft gun firing .50 calibre bullets that can take someone’s head off two miles away. The four IRA men also had Kalashnikovs. They were ‘considered a threat’ when they were killed.

    Soldier M tells me he has had to give a statement about that night ‘four or five times’, starting with the original police inquiry in 1992. Back then, it was ‘just another operation’ to him, but he has been haunted by it because of what has happened since. He and his squad have been in legal ‘limbo’ for two decades, often kept in the dark by the Ministry of Defence (MoD) about the status of the various investigations. He says: ‘We are being scapegoated… and are subject to the whims of successive governments.’ This, and years of being deployed on high-stress operations, has led to depression. He tried to commit suicide once and contemplated it again in the summer. He wrote to his lawyers: ‘When this latest inquiry began, I found myself spiralling downward.’

    Simm believes successive governments have abused the loyalty of these men. He says the duty of care, ‘that wraparound provided by the system’, has been exposed as a ‘sham’. He also points to the fact that the ECHR affects only soldiers, as agents of the state, but has nothing to say about the actions of any terrorist group. Soldiers take an oath to defend the Crown – ‘the living manifestation of the good of the British people’ – but now effectively work under the auspices of foreign lawyers. ‘It’s a breach of contract.’ Simm asks if the SAS are supposed to debate ‘every tenet and variation’ of Article 2 amid chaos and the smell of cordite, when a nanosecond’s hesitation could mean getting shot or blown up. He says the lawyers have ‘legalised our work to death’: the absurd, but logical, outcome will be SAS soldiers lawyering up to vet their orders before accepting a mission.

    Simm broke cover last month, writing a letter to the Times, along with two former SAS officers. One was Jamie Lowther–Pinkerton, who left the SAS to become private secretary to William, Kate and Harry. He tells me the pursuit of some veterans is the military equivalent of the Post Office scandal, with Simm cast in the role of Alan Bates. Stories of SAS soldiers being ‘dragged back to be screamed at in interview rooms’ are ‘flying around the canteens now’. He hears from soldiers who feel like ‘the good guys have become the bad guys – and the bad guys are now the good guys’. Lowther-Pinkerton says the effect on recruiting could be dire. The SAS see what happened to the Met’s armed police unit, SO19, which used to get thousands of applications to join. There were apparently just six after a police sergeant was prosecuted for shooting the London gangster Chris Kaba.

    Lowther-Pinkerton is angry and a little ashamed that people high up the chain of command, who once dished out ‘slaps on the back’, will not step from the shadows to defend the ‘poor buggers’ who were the tip of the spear. Colonel Richard Williams, who commanded the regiment on operations in Iraq and Afghanistan, is speaking up. He says people should be ‘fighting very, very hard’ against the ‘utterly ridiculous’ idea that putting an SAS team on the ground in some failed state automatically extends British jurisdiction and the reach of the ECHR – with legal action under Article 2 possible many years later. The politicians should not put the SAS in a position ‘where the risk to my life is matched by the risk to my liberty’.

    Colonel Williams says the SAS are not ‘mad dog’ assassins. ‘Special Forces are not above the law. Full stop.’ But he says they need to ‘have the freedoms to execute important actions on behalf of the state’. After 9/11, the regiment was sent to dangerous places to capture terrorist suspects who might know about the next attack, along the way losing ‘a lot of people wounded, a lot of people killed, relative to our small size’. Soldiers will be prepared to do that, he says, only when they think their actions – ‘if they’re good actions’ – are protected under the law. The alternative is bombing from the air, which – as Williams points out – obliterates the intelligence and risks killing civilians.

    This is what’s happening, but it has more to do with another effect of the ECHR: it can make arresting terrorist suspects next to impossible. In December 2022, the British government learned about an Islamic State biological weapons engineer, a Yemeni, based in a village in northern Syria. His phone and computer may well have had the names of others in his network, or plans for an attack. But if troops had been used to seize this digital record, they would not have been able to detain the man himself. They would have had to let him go even if he’d surrendered. The ECHR makes it illegal to hand over terrorist suspects to Syria, because of the risk of torture, and illegal to take them to Britain because there’s no extradition treaty. So an RAF Reaper drone sent two hellfire missiles down to kill the man.

    Ben Wallace ordered many such strikes in his time as defence secretary. This was a ‘frustrating’ outcome. In many cases, he would have liked a trial in the UK ‘rather than making those who seek to do us harm into martyrs’. Wallace says his options were often narrowed to a drone strike when the MoD’s lawyers said a terrorist suspect could not be ‘rendered’ across an international border, or handed to the government of somewhere like Syria: ‘We simply could not put British personnel into that position on the ground. The only option therefore to stop the threat was often a kinetic strike.’

    Wallace says that the ‘aggressive’ nature of the European Court of Human Rights is starting to retrospectively turn military operations into police operations. This creates an opening for lawyers such as the notorious Phil Shiner, convicted of fraud over claims against British soldiers in Iraq. In fact, he says the ECHR creates contradictory obligations because it asserts primacy over the Geneva Conventions, the historic rules of war. It is ‘vital’ for parliament to reverse this ‘if we are to ensure we can deal with the emerging threats to this country’. The European Court ‘has no business unilaterally asserting itself over UN deployments or deployments outside of Europe’.

    There’s little chance of anything limiting the ECHR’s reach with this government of the lawyers, by the lawyers, and for the lawyers. And the timing is terrible for a campaign by SAS veterans. The Haddon-Cave Inquiry is hearing claims that SAS soldiers in Afghanistan carried out extra-judicial killings. Lawyers for the Afghans argue that the inquiry would never have happened without Article 2 of the ECHR. The SAS veterans say they don’t necessarily want Britain to leave the ECHR, but they would like the government of the day to use powers in the convention to suspend Article 2 – the right to life – during war or national emergency.

    Simm repeats a saying variously attributed to Orwell, Churchill or Kipling: ‘We sleep soundly in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm.’ One day, those men may not be there when we turn to them for help.

    Paul Wood was a BBC foreign correspondent for 25 years, in Belgrade, Athens, Cairo, Jerusalem, Kabul and Washington DC. He has won numerous awards, including two US Emmys for his coverage of the Syrian civil war

    *******************************************

    Olivia Mcneilis
    7 hours ago
    Olivia’s father

    Having dedicated 1985-6-7-8-9 to serving in Ulster- even back then we were more concerned of the Courts than the terrorists. In all too many cases safety catches stayed firmly on in case of legal retribution. Fired your weapon? Tagged, bagged, swabbed and catalogued via Bravo Oaks. Guilty until proven otherwise

    I have stayed very much in touch with colleagues in the SF, and it is significantly worse.

    The difference being Thatcher and Tom King had our backs whereas these jackanapes in parliament today are weak liberal cowards more concerned about their careers

    Dichotomy Dave
    5 hours ago
    Let’s not forget Starmer was one of these lawyers. He represented an IRA terrorist, if Starmer had simply picked up that case up as part of the routine carousel of KC cases – fair enough! Just a job.

    But he developed that case as a civil start up (another for an Anglo-Iraqi bomb maker) from scratch working for the now defunct Public Interest Lawyer firm whose boss was Shiner who has since been struck off for making £1.6 million from bogus claims against British servicemen.

    These were prosecutions not criminal cases, so Starmer was under no obligation to take them, he agreed to work for Shiner (and others) in return for cash. Lots of cash.

    Being given a job defending IRA prisoners who escaped by shooting their guard is one thing. Taking the government to civil trial to get compensation for those same IRA men, for the injuries they sustained in their escape, then doing it again with other convicted terrorists disgusts me to the core.

    Captain Detterling
    6 hours ago
    "He hears from soldiers who feel like ‘the good guys have become the bad guys – and the bad guys are now the good guys’… One day, those men may not be there when we turn to them for help."

    This is one of the core concepts of 'progressive' activism, especially its pseudo-legal wing: invert the moral order.

    It's why they go after totemic figures. If some of the most highly trained and capable soldiers in the world, serving a democratic government, can be tarnished and demoralised, then what remains that can be defended?

    Leaving us with nothing is exactly the point.

    Yuri Bezmenov was prescient.

    1. Anyone fancy attending the 125 lecture series at University of London and welcome Cherie Blair to talk about her life and career, the importance of the law and social justice.

      She will also discuss topics ranging from the criminal justice system, prison reform, the constitution, and the struggle to find guilty Sgt Alexander Blackman of murdering an injured Afghan insurgent, in what she called an execution.

      1. Ask the creature what she thinks would have happened had the boot been on the other foot.
        I would bet a small fortune that the insurgent would have killed Sgt Blackman without the slightest hesitation.
        Two wrongs do not make a right, but for God's sake woman, grow up and face facts.
        I wonder whether if even a tiny fraction of the HR cases she and her kind take on are pro bono.

    2. The 'rough men who stand ready in the night' should vist a few human rights lawyers. This would soon stop.

    3. The 'rough men who stand ready in the night' should vist a few human rights lawyers. This would soon stop.

  110. I wish politicians spent their energies on national critical issues instead of personal hobby horses which in the grand scheme of things are inconsequential.

  114. Czech billionaire Daniel Křetínský is on the brink of closing a deal to buy Royal Mail after making extra concessions to satisfy the Government. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/11/28/czech-billionaire-brink-royal-mail-takeover/

    The bid to buy the postal service, which is being tabled by Mr Křetínský’s EP Group, is close to being finalised and the £3.6bn deal could be confirmed within the next two weeks, sources close to the deal told the BBC.

    The Telegraph reported earlier this month that Mr Křetínský was under pressure from ministers to offer a cap on the prices of stamps to get the deal over the line.

    The Business Department was also pushing for commitments on how much Mr Křetínský would invest in postal infrastructure across the UK, following warnings of crumbling depots.

    The takeover has come under heavy scrutiny because Royal Mail would pass to a single private owner for the first time in its 500-year history, as well as going to a foreign owner.

    Mr Křetínský, who is known as the “Czech sphinx”, has already made a series of pledges including to maintain Royal Mail’s “one price goes anywhere” universal service and Saturday deliveries for first-class letters, to keep Royal Mail’s headquarters and tax residency in the UK for at least five years, and to make no compulsory redundancies until 2025.

    His new concessions could include extending the duration of these pre-existing commitments.

    The board of International Distribution Services (IDS), which owns Royal Mail, has recommended the £3.6bn offer to its shareholders.

    It is expected that enough of them will agree to allow the deal to go ahead.

    It will then still need to be approved by officials under the National Security and Investment Act.

    Royal Mail was split from the Post Office and was privatised in stages from 2013 to 2015, with its shares sold to employees and institutions.

    It has been struggling with a slump in letter-writing, with the volume of letters sent in the UK halving since 2011, and a wave of complaints about slow deliveries.

    More profitable parcel deliveries, however, are becoming increasingly popular as consumers order more goods online.

    Mr Křetínský’s EP Group was contacted for comment. Royal Mail and the Department for Business and Trade declined to comment.

    Paul Garner
    12 min ago
    No compulsory redundancies until 2025 eh?

    That's 6 weeks away. Hardly reassuring.

    Pamela Wakeling
    17 min ago
    DISGRACEFUL TO PUT IN HANDS OF A COMMUNIST NON DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY

    Comment by Andrew Shaw.

    AS

    Andrew Shaw
    28 min ago
    Yet another UK asset passing into foreign ownership? It simply shouldn't be allowed!! Can you imagine the French selling SNCF to a Chinese conglomerate? Or the American postal service being sold to an Indian billionaire? It simply wouldn't happen and it shouldn't happen here. DT beware!

    Comment by Ron Scimitar.

    RS

    Ron Scimitar
    34 min ago
    A bit harsh to force him into agreeing a price cap on postage when Rachel from accounts keeps upping employment costs.

    1. Capital inflows balance current account outflows. Even Rachel from accounts could grasp that.

    2. Would it be better back under the control of our guvement

      Who are COMMUNIST and NON DEMOCRATIC

    3. Would it be better back under the control of our guvement

      Who are COMMUNIST and NON DEMOCRATIC

    4. I think he's tried previously, knowing a number of PO employees they're already quite demoralised and this won't help. He'll likely start with the number of daily deliveries in country areas, they're the loss-making ones. Wonder what the size/value of the Pension Fund is…….

    5. The countries that laboured under communism are really taking off.
      A complete reversal from the certainties of my childhood.

    6. The countries that laboured under communism are really taking off.
      A complete reversal from the certainties of my childhood.

    7. "Pamela Wakeling
      17 min ago
      DISGRACEFUL TO PUT IN HANDS OF A COMMUNIST NON DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY" It's already in the hands of a Communist, Non-Democratic country, dear. It's just one Communist selling the family silver to another.

  115. A photo taken at 13:15. The sun dipped below the valley side a half hour earlier!
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2c998dc90532fbbac54e8c060464dc6f4f8e2e634835bf680bc19386f3f2c006.jpg
    When the sun rises at this time of year, it's well after 08:00 before it rises above the shoulder of the hill down towards Cromford.
    After a short time it passes behind this water tower on the newer part of the mill:- https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/b4ff40c39b438c191d3bf5a3db10a6b0f7c1ad89335ca4871f84bc2ac407b543.jpg A short while later it passes behind this tower on the older part of the mill not long before it drops behind the valley side. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/1120b4fce3653cd3c7711288ea3a0e70f3374d7782a0d86feaf94b5d79b3daa8.jpg And a typical bit of the traffic he get going past:-
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2c72fc6871d95058c8fc7883e12e01850e5afde9d44f805b02465db2d859b124.jpg

      1. That direction-ish.
        As sunset becomes earlier and earlier of course, is sets further round to the South.

    2. A Jamaican woman told me, "It's an urban myth".

      She said her motto was, "You ain't had it right … till you had it white."

  117. 397585+up ticks,

    It the case of England it would be " "have we got the aid package sent off to China and Pakistan yet"

    Assisted dying posterboy told friend he might have chosen to live if given proper care
    Jean Truchon’s case led to Canada relaxing laws on letting people choose to die, but email reveals his mind was conflicted

  119. I purchased 6 second class stamps this morning. The young lady on the checkout asked if I "would like a receipt?"
    I said: 'Yes please, I'm going to frame it as it's more valuable than a Banksy…"
    She had the good grace to chuckle….

    1. "When did Stratford urbanise its river?", I pondered – for a moment…

      The weed infestation demonstrates beyond doubt that this a LibDumb area.

      1. Indeed the weeds are colonising pavements everywhere – the repairs will cost ratepayers a fortune in due course. But they are happy and dumb enough…

    2. The last time I visited Bath was for my eldest sister’s funeral and burial at Haycombe some five years ago.

      I noticed some awful buildings along the riverside then but not that monstrous edifice. Where exactly is it? I despise anyone designing that sort of crap and inflicting it on Bathonians.

        1. I suppose that just as our cultural norms and customs are being dismantled this is reflected in the decline of Art and Architecture.

          We seem to have lurched from the ‘look no hands’ cantilevering and stilts of Le Corbusier with its raw concrete via Foster, Rogers and Zaha Hadid to a deliberate and wilful disassembling of traditional forms as in that monstrosity in Bath.

          The beauty of Georgian Bath was achieved by an acceptance of and conformity to basic rules of scale and proportion. Materials were limited to Bath stone, timber double hung sash windows, slate mansard roof coverings with lead covered torus and lead flashings, wrought and cast iron railings often with arrowhead finials, York stone pavings with granite kerbs.

          The materials used and the heights of the buildings were controlled as were the street widths following the Great Fire of London. Successive architects respected their neighbours and kept to the rules.

          Nowadays it seems there are no rules and just as our society is falling prey to the ideology of Keir Starmer and his ilk so too we see the same fragmentation and lawlessness in the buildings we allow to be built.

          1. My home town, Chesterfield, was a beautiful market town in the 1950s (and well before). In the 1960s they decided to demolish a row of old stone shops on Low Pavement. A petition was launched to save them so the compromise was to save just the frontages of those shops, while the area behind them was transformed into a 'modern' (i.e. concrete and glass) shopping complex. It was better than the original plan but you soon lost the charm of the old frontage as soon as you entered.

            Since then, the rest of the town centre has become an urban slum with most of the old shops replaced by filthy, ugly, concrete boxes that provide a warren for the hordes of junkies and low-lifes that now infest the area. A once thriving town centre is now a no-go area for decent people after sunset.

            Meanwhile, the socialist cretins at the town hall (who created this desolation) still enjoy their junkets and freebies at the expense of the public they are serially elected to 'serve'.

          2. Many of the small artisan dwellings in Bath were demolished so the backdrop to the centre of Bath was lost. Had those properties survived and had they been properly renovated they would be highly sought after today.

            In the early seventies I visited Poland and stayed a few days in Warsaw whilst on my travels. I remember walking along Nowy Swiat where the facades of the bombed out city had been restored but with modern office accommodation behind. The giveaway was the sight of fluorescent tube lighting where once would have hung chandeliers.

      2. Walk down Brougham Hayes and keep walking straight down Stothert Avenue and over the Victoria Bridge crossing the river Avon.
        I walked that route many many times to get from home to school.
        Of course in those days walking down that route was like walking through the middle of Stothert & Pitt.

        1. I did the same. Between 1963 to 1970 I attended City of Bath Technical School in Brougham Hayes.

          My metalwork master Mr Cosnett who lived on Coronation Avenue and died just a few years ago (Funeral service was in nearby Ascension Church) had trained staff at Stothert & Pitt.

          We lived on Sladebrook Avenue so my walk or cycle to school was from the other direction but I retain a vivid knowledge of just about everywhere in Bath. As children we played in Victoria Park which was a two penny bus ride from Englishcombe Lane.

          An uncle worked at Pitman Press as a Monotype Keyboard Operator and immediate neighbours worked respectively at Stothert & Pitt and Bath Cabinet Makers (Herman Miller).

          1. We went to the same school but I was there a year earlier. Lots of memories and I can recall quite a few of the staff with stories associated with them.
            I live outside Bath now and only visit when I need to, like everything the changes I notice seem not to be for the better, but I expect every generation says the same.
            I think all the firms you mentioned are gone, the Universities seems to rule supreme now.

          2. Of course I should have remembered our proximities. You may also recall our Sports Days which utilised the cinder track at the present site of Bath University at Combe Down.

            After A Levels I had a choice of several university schools of Architecture including Bath but the actual school was based at Kings Weston House Bristol, a typically massive stone house (designed by Sir John Vanbrugh of Blenheim Palace and Castle Howard fame). I would take a bus to Sea Mills for Kings Weston and walk through fields to Blaise Castle when a teenager.

            I opted eventually for Sheffield because it took me a good distance from my family in Bath. Make of that what you will.

            I remember the year ahead of mine included some nasty snotty boys. We had a few as well. I was top of the form in my Third Year and usually in the top three but then I was not a swot. Our swots were a fat oaf David Millward and a chap who became a doctor in Wales called Alan Lane who was a good athlete and won the Victor Ludorum most years.

            We had also Stephen (Tom) Sawyer who was an accomplished swimmer and a boy surname of Necco (have forgotten his first name may have been Roger) who was selected to play for England Boys at Twickenham against Wales (we lost).

            My favourite master was Peter (Ben) Chord with whom I remained in contact after leaving school. He lived in a bungalow which was accessible from Greenway Lane and adjacent to the abandoned railway track and tunnel which is now a cycle way.

          3. I remember Roger Neco, we went to Twickenham to watch him play. If I remember correctly he was clobbered very hard early in the match, I had the impression he never really recovered and had an indifferent performance because of it. I was told last year he had passed away, cancer unfortunately.
            Tom Martland was one of my favourites, captain of Bath Rugby, hard as nails but a true gentleman, unlike a certain Mr Pappin. Killer Keating was more bark than bite, he done wonders with me and Maths.
            Do you remember Joe Canon, I met him in town several months after leaving, he spotted me in the street and called me over. I thought he was going to ask how I was getting on, but no he told me I still had a library book outstanding.
            Good times really, I do not think education has improved much if at all.

          4. Wow I have much the same recollections. Shame about Riger Necco whom I admired for his sporting prowess. I remember Tom Martland fondly and he became a coach at Bath Rugby after recurrent knee injuries. He coached Roger Necco up at the playing field in Odd Down. He taught us Chemistry.

            Pappin I agree was a nasty piece of work. Tom Martland attended Sheffield University which is where I took my First Degree. I did my Diploma and professional practice qualifications at University College London.

            I met Joe Canon in The Wndmill Public House on Clapham Common when I had a flat in Clapham during the seventies. He was enjoying a pint of Youngs Special with his son in law and standing at the bar. He remembered me and he told me of his experiences leading the first batch of masters to the amalgamation with Westhill Secondary Boys School which had failed both an older and younger brother of mine. He said that his party was met with contempt and hostility by the teachers there. He concurred with my elder brother who told me that the wood supposed to be for the woodwork classes was taken by Headmaster Dann (Dann, Dann the dirty old man) for shelving in his own house.

            Joe Canon told me that Acting Headmaster Hayman had suffered a stroke and was in poor health confined to a wheelchair. Hayman had no judgement of people and put the ghastly John Bowling as Head Boy and allowed him to select his coterie of buddies as Senior Prefects. They were a bunch of sad little Hitlers. (Geoff Gingell, Derek (?) boys we called Moonrakers on account of their arriving by train at Oldfield Park Halt from Chippenham and yes, they were fanatical trainspotters.

            Killer Keating was a lovely chap and explained his nickname derived from one of those painted signs you see on the end elevations of stone properties. The sign in question was an advertisement for Fly Powder and read ‘Keatings Kills’.

            I kept in touch with Peter Coard and wrote to him for a while. He taught me how to draw as well as imparting his knowledge of architectural history. I have copies of the various editions of his books Vanishing Bath

            I think you and I did pretty well at the Technical School by comparison with Westhill, Cardinal Newman and Bath Grammar. I got my nine O-Levels and three A-Levels which were the passport to a successful and fulfilling career in Architecture.

            It is great to correspond and I very much appreciate your sharing memories with me.

          5. I remember Roger Neco, we went to Twickenham to watch him play. If I remember correctly he was clobbered very hard early in the match, I had the impression he never really recovered and had an indifferent performance because of it. I was told last year he had passed away, cancer unfortunately.
            Tom Martland was one of my favourites, captain of Bath Rugby, hard as nails but a true gentleman, unlike a certain Mr Pappin. Killer Keating was more bark than bite, he done wonders with me and Maths.
            Do you remember Joe Canon, I met him in town several months after leaving, he spotted me in the street and called me over. I thought he was going to ask how I was getting on, but no he told me I still had a library book outstanding.
            Good times really, I do not think education has improved much if at all.

    1. I believe it was NF's stated intent to destroy the CP because they wouldn't allow him to stand as a candidate. Sounds like he may have put too much emphasis on that, and not on Reform candidates (unless Habib has got it wrong?). Have a memory of UKIP HQ being quite dysfunctional, reported by those who worked there. Whatever, Starmer's star is in the ascendancy, so those on the Right have time to regroup – or implode, it's up to them.

        1. Tasted what? The texture changes with the diff techniques. And the lime would certainly make a fish taste different from its steamed counterpart.

          Is it a Grizzly fish? It has your face.

          5. No.

            My hair was never long enough for a mullet. I started slowly moulting at 18, a good decade before the first mullet appeared.

          9. Of the Arctic variety.

            The first time I had it (up in the Arctic) it was as a carpaccio, and delicious it was. The second time, a few days later, I had it steamed, and delicious it was again.

          11. STOP SHOUTING! I heard you first time, Cooky.

            Since there will be two meals … served on separate occasions … they will be prepared differently.

            One method I fancy is roasted and served on mustardy puy lentils.

          14. Just looked it up. And bought a pot. Interesting history.
            Funnily enough most of the mustard seed for Meaux now comes from Saskatchewan, Canada.
            I bet the frogs are annoyed about that.

  123. Letters page BTL

    After reading all the above comments, I feel like slashing my wrists.

    Surely, you could have printed letters on other topics:

    The impending H o C debate, on 6 January, about the dissolution of Parliament, for example

    2. Borrow mine, they're always similar – but yours tend to be a line less!

      Wordle 1,258 4/6

      ⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
      🟨⬜⬜⬜⬜
      ⬜⬜⬜🟩🟨
      🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

  125. From today's Risk Audit's newsletter

    Texas and ten other Republican US states have joined up to sue BlackRock, State Street and Vanguard. They are alleging that these investors conspired to invest in coal stocks with a view to driving up the price of coal supplies in furtherance of their Net Zero agenda. BlackRock has dismissed this anti-trust suit as baseless.

  126. I did it……put my horrid knee support on, comfortable shoes, winter jacket, woollen scarf gloves and woollen hat.
    And walked 3 1/2 miles to our village and back to collect a prescription. Had to sit on useful memorial benches twice and lean on fences and walls while I got my breath back.
    But that large mug of tea and the slice of coffee and walnut cake went down well. 😉

    3. A farm in our area we've got into the habit of using had to do the same today. They've been flooded with FB enqs wanting to know if they use it.

        1. Evening. Needs keeping an eye on that one ogga. I don't do FB but the missus can't say if the comments were zealots trying to wag a finger for not using it or just people genuinely afraid they might get poisoned by the stuff. As she says though, if they really are supportive of the farm then either way they'd already be aware of the farm's excellent credentials. Either way it's good news I think.

    4. Exactly why IHT has been applied to farms, I would have thought – get rid of the obstinate beggars who aren't on board with the plan.

  129. Just a coincidence?

    A friend of Caroline's warned her last week that she would probably be playing the organ at some church funerals this week as the residents of our local care home had just been given their Covid jab boosters.

    Caroline played at two funerals today and will be playing at another tomorrow.

      1. Beurre blanc to go with your appalling choice of fish. At least the mustard should disguise the taste.

        1. You've never tasted it, you Philipstine. Then again, since your taste buds have been trashed by decades of abuse (nicotine and over-sugared girl alcohol), you'd never know how delicious it is.

  134. "Arla Foods is a major player in the UK dairy market. It supplies milk to retailers and produces brands such as Lurpak, Anchor, Cravendale, Lactofree, and Castello."

    Avoiding Gates' latest carp is going to take a little trouble…
    Not forgetting of course that the plan is for us to be eating zero meat or dairy products by 2050, something that must be resisted.

    https://www.soniaelijah.com/p/breaking-methane-reducing-feed-additive?publication_id=319741&post_id=152239729&isFreemail=true&r=28gmek&triedRedirect=true&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

    2. I will be eating meat despite what any lefty zealots say I must do even if it means I go out and shoot it myself every day.

      1. I plan to carry on eating meat as well, but not meat that's contaminated with goodness knows what. Not just this additive but any new jabs they come up with. Maybe that is how they plan to get people to give up eating it. Resistance needs to happen now, not when it's too late.

        1. If they want to decrease emissions perhaps they’d consider injecting MPs with Bovair? Cut out the middlecow at least.

          1. I don’t suppose for one moment that this has to do with emissions. To be administered only to lactating cows FFS! Everyone knows that the male of the species farts more than the female!!

      2. Any cretinous Lefty zealot attempting to stop me eating meat will be barbecued and served up as Long Pig.

          1. "Try the cock. I'm assured it's very good!"

            Excellent film. I have it in my collection of course.

          7. I wanted to myself, but I’m a huge fan of La Mirren, so I felt I owed it to her to look…..

          8. Ah yes, if it was for the cause of chivalry then duty always prevails. Quite right. The things we must endure in order to reassure ladies that we love them.

          9. I wanted to myself, but I’m a huge fan of La Mirren, so I felt I owed it to her to look…..

          11. Ah yes, the point of the whole payback. She could have just shot him but there had to be revenge before that.

    3. I will be eating meat despite what any lefty zealots say I must do even if it means I go out and shoot it myself every day.

    4. I will be eating meat despite what any lefty zealots say I must do even if it means I go out and shoot it myself every day.

  135. "Arla Foods is a major player in the UK dairy market. It supplies milk to retailers and produces brands such as Lurpak, Anchor, Cravendale, Lactofree, and Castello."

    Avoiding Gates' latest carp is going to take a little trouble…
    Not forgetting of course that the plan is for us to be eating zero meat or dairy products by 2050, something that must be resisted.

    https://www.soniaelijah.com/p/breaking-methane-reducing-feed-additive?publication_id=319741&post_id=152239729&isFreemail=true&r=28gmek&triedRedirect=true&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email

    1. Snap. Out with son, daughter in law and the other half. Dinner at pub then laze around in front of pub fire.

  138. 397595+ up ticks,

    Give the opposition lab/lib/con coalition party credit they have the situation stitched up tighter than a cods arse.and that's watertight,

    All the time the blame game goes on the invasion numbers daily mount.

    Starmer accuses Tories of ‘running an open borders experiment’
    Sir Keir Starmer is now on his feet in 10 Downing Street as he responds to today’s record net migration numbers.

    The Prime Minister said that today’s numbers proved the last Tory government was “running an open borders experiment”.

    He said: “Time and again the Conservative Party promised they would get the numbers down. Time and again they failed.”

  139. 397595+ up ticks,

    Give the opposition lab/lib/con coalition party credit they have the situation stitched up tighter than a cods arse.and that's watertight,

    All the time the blame game goes on the invasion numbers daily mount.

    Starmer accuses Tories of ‘running an open borders experiment’
    Sir Keir Starmer is now on his feet in 10 Downing Street as he responds to today’s record net migration numbers.

    The Prime Minister said that today’s numbers proved the last Tory government was “running an open borders experiment”.

    He said: “Time and again the Conservative Party promised they would get the numbers down. Time and again they failed.”

  143. I was just thinking, when they close the 850 year old Smithfield market they could always convert it to a mega halal food market with a convenient potential mosque just next door, comes with a handy dome already in situ

  144. Private School Tax Defenders Admit It Will Raise “Tiny, Tiny Amount of Money”

    Back in the election campaign the non-dom tax, new private equity rules, and levying VAT on private schools were touted as Labour’s main revenue-raisers for all of its manifesto commitments. Remember that?

    The Telegraph has dug out a video from the IFS in which director Paul Johnson spells out what the policy actually means for the Treasury’s coffers. Zilch…

    Johnson was promoting a report from the think tank which predicted the taxman would at least take in more from the policy that it would lose – a proposition contested by numerous other reports. As Guido revealed last month the report was literally written by the best man of the minister implementing the tax…

    Even Johnson couldn’t hide how useless the tax grab is for revenue. He says it will not make “any real difference to the amount of money available” for state education, will raise “a tiny, tiny amount of money,” and that the public should not “be fooled into thinking this is going to make any real difference to the amount of money available for public services.” Back to the blackboard…

    28 November 2024 @ 17:41

    1. I hope the public is fully aware that all it raises is the blood pressure of people whose doom is to put up with a lifetime of spiteful little gnomes like this Labour Party.

    2. My local free mag had a piece from a financial advisor on the budget (drumming up custom as a by-line); it concluded "the Chancellor has increased taxes by a record £40bn and increased borrowing to £127bn for this tax year. Alongside the … changes to minimum wage, fuel duty and increased spending for public services there were several changes that may affect you. … Overall this has been a big Budget that will have long-lasting ramifications. It has not been an easy Budget for those who are attempting to save and invest for their future. "

  145. Inside Jonathan Powell’s Desperate Mauritius Trip to Save Chagos Sellout as Labour Deal Collapses

    As Starmer’s Chagos deal teeters on the verge of collapse, his new National Security Adviser Jonathan Powell is on a round the world last ditch tour to save the sellout of British sovereign territory. The former Blair Chief of Staff is the chief architect of the agreement to give up British Indian Ocean Territory to Mauritius – he was appointed Starmer’s Chief Negotiator on the matter back in September (prior to being confirmed as NSA). There’s just one problem…

    The Mauritian Government, with whom Powell originally negotiated the deal, has subsequently collapsed in a massive wiretapping scandal. At an election held on 10th November, the then government was expelled from office in a landslide defeat. There’s a new Mauritian PM, whom Powell tried to ingratiate himself with in person this week…

    Guido has well placed sources who are in a position to have knowledge of the detail of some of those meetings. They confirm that the change of government has severely damaged the prospects of Powell’s deal holding firm as new Mauritian ministers have described the arrangement as a “sell out”. It is understood that the Mauritius government has appointed legal advisers to reevaluate Powell’s deal, requesting more time. Damningly, the word in Port Louis is that Powell’s sudden trip has caused deep frustration in the Mauritius government – the new Prime Minister had not even had a chance to convene his full Cabinet for its first meeting before Powell turned up on the doorstep of Government House. Blundering Powell is now heading to Washington DC to try to firm up the deal from the US side – which seems hopeless given opposition inside the Trump team. This deal is only going one way…

  146. Film earns PG for bias against green-skinned

    Mockery of the green-skinned witch in Wicked has been branded “discrimination” by regulators.

    The British Board of Film Classification (BBFC) has given Ariana Grande’s new musical a PG certificate. Parents have been warned that the film contains potentially upsetting depictions of “discrimination”. This is because “a green-skinned woman is mocked, bullied and humiliated because of her skin colour”, said the BBFC.

    The woman in question is Elphaba, played by British actress Cynthia Erivo. Her character in the musical has a troubled childhood as a result of being shunned for her green skin.

    How did these cretinous vermin manage to infiltrate every area of society to spill their beyond-idiotic bilge? Time to bring in Rentokil.

    1. Personally, i should wear a badge saying don't look at me because i have freckles. If you do look at me and raise/roll/close your eyes i will report it as a hate crime.

    2. Isn’t the green skinned one The Wicked Witch of the West? Relativism really does fry their brains, doesn’t it?

    3. It's one comfort for those proposing revolution that if they do ever deign to get off their backsides to storm the citadels of power, the opposition will be a pushover. Clearly they are too bovine, too ridiculous and too dimwitted to resist.

  147. I see that Cursed Harmer is blaming the Tories for the immigration figures.
    Nothing to do with Blair opening the floodgates, nothing to do with Cooper et all "refugees welcome", nothing to do with Labour and all his 'uman roits crew stymieing anything and everything that was proposed.

    God how I despise the man.

      1. Khan is making a point. Which is that he and woke are taking over – and there is nothing we can do about it.

    3. The names were chosen a while back but the implementation was delayed by the TFL security incident (yes, they were hacked). Been up o town today, didn't notice any use of the new names but gather it will come.

      SWR had a big launch event for their new Arterio trains at Waterloo this morning. Missed seeing the train and arrived before it all started but they had a band playing for the VIPs. Got given a free chocolate, they are really pushing the stops out….

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/6f4672bd24e3c3cfe2fdf44ccccdea0cf9b09ea6e7ad7f546dda32b7615429f3.jpg

      1. Ooh! The New Vaudeville Band!! Now that takes me back!😁 That’s how much my pocket money was!

      2. Ooh! The New Vaudeville Band!! Now that takes me back!😁 That’s how much my pocket money was!

  149. Please please please make this a.. "It's either Trump or it's me & my Labour Government.." moment.

    Sir Keir Starmer to fast track the handing over the Chagos islands to Mauritius in an effort to undermine the incoming US President.

    1. They are acting as though they're school children passing notes in the classroom before the teacher notices.
      The Chagos islands are people's home FFS.

    2. He hasn't yet worked out that regardless of who the President is he's actually trying to spite the USA itself. The USA does not want a change in the status quo at Chagos, but then Starmer is a man of almost myopic vision.

      1. He's trying to fast track the handover whilst Biden is President, hopefully Trump will be willing and able to rescind, James.

        1. Looks like enough pressure is going in on Mauritius behind the scenes already KJ. Starmer really is a man of such limited horizons.

          1. The thing that overloads it for me James is that gesture with his hand with his thumb laid flat. My eye goes straight to it and then the pursed mouth, like a blasted headmaster, in a grey suit. Coming out now about who he defended as DPP. Bit of news re the lurid hair Louise Thing Transport/Maritime, reported past conviction for fraud. ‘Night..see you tmrw if we’re spared Kate x

  150. Please please please make this a.. "It's either Trump or it's me & my Labour Government.." moment.

    Sir Keir Starmer to fast track the handing over the Chagos islands to Mauritius in an effort to undermine the incoming US President.

  151. I only caught a snippet on the C 5 news earlier from the Netherlands. Were they apparently have had 'selected survival' for some time and it's not worked very well leading to hundreds of more deaths than was usual.
    At one stage the interviewee suggested that politicians never really think things through properly. I firmly believe we have the same problem.

    1. Instant Starmers gonna get you
      Gonna knock you right on the head
      You better get yourself together
      Pretty soon you're gonna be dead

  152. Thought for the day:

    Perhaps Starmer wasn't really DPP, but was in fact an errand boy, and like Reeves merely inflated his CV.

    4. Thought for the day Sos-

      Starmer was certainly so influential amongst MPs in that he got a special bill exempting him

      from tax on his pension.

      One wonders whether the MPs agreed to this because of what Starmer knew about them?

        1. Heavens only knows, but it must be pretty strong stuff.

          As I’m sure that you realise, determinedly ignored by the MSM.

  153. Evening, all. Very cold here – frost overnight that has never really cleared.

    Why would Labour consider the whole of society? They never have before – indeed, they have never even considered the consequences of their legislation even on the part of society they are targeting.

  154. It is high time for me to put an end to your sitting in this place, which you have dishonored by your contempt of all virtue, and defiled by your practice of every vice; ye are a factious crew, and enemies to all good government; ye are a pack of mercenary wretches, and would like Esau sell your country for a mess of pottage, and like Judas betray your God for a few pieces of money.

    Is there a single virtue now remaining amongst you? Is there one vice you do not possess? Ye have no more religion than my horse; gold is your God; which of you have not barter’d your conscience for bribes? Is there a man amongst you that has the least care for the good of the Commonwealth?

    Ye sordid prostitutes have you not defil’d this sacred place, and turn’d the Lord’s temple into a den of thieves, by your immoral principles and wicked practices? Ye are grown intolerably odious to the whole nation; you were deputed here by the people to get grievances redress’d, are yourselves gone! So! Take away that shining bauble there, and lock up the doors.

    In the name of God, go!”

    Oliver Cromwell – April 20, 1653.

    1. Gentlemen and wimmin, I'm a man of few words
      FOAD

      sosraboc – -any time you wish

      It's a pity I'm not in Oliver's position.

  156. Probably his own bubble is housed inside a WEF bubble. He certainly doesn't connect with reality.

  157. It's funny how mince pies are regarded as quintessentially English.
    Our French friends love and expect them.

    1. I can't seem to get many Swedes enthusiatic about them. They regard pastried English goods (pies) with suspicion. My English friends gobble them like there's no tomorrow.

        1. All their cakes are tortes, i.e. wet with lots of cream and fruit like a large damp gateau. Our cakes are too ‘dry’ for them. They also like bakelse, again lots of damp sponge, lots of cream and a bit of jam all wrapped in sheets of marzipan.

    1. In response to Kev
      In banking there are so many grades that 3 levels either way is FA to a jam tart.
      I worked in a similar job title environment.
      There were 5 grades above mine.
      There were probably 8 grades below mine.
      Trust me, I was a very junior manager at the time, and unless he really was "Director of Banking" which I very much doubt, I suspect "Kev" would have reported to someone who reported to me, or the equivalent on another part of the very many pyramids.

    2. Seems to be surprisingly common nowadays for ambitious young politicians to use their employer's resources for their political work. She's certainly not the only sitting MP who's had to leave a job suddenly shortly after the employer has discovered this, if the above is true.

  161. Have just heard a really petty, mean minded and spiteful assessment from Nigel Farage (on his own programme hosted by Michele Dewbury) re the pushing out of Ben Habib from the Reform party. It leaves a very nasty taste indeed. I know who I would rather trust.

    1. Farage, entertaining?
      Yes.
      A real leader rather than all mouth and trousers,
      NO.
      Probably excellent company for a beer or three, a future Prime Minister?
      Hardly

    2. 'Evening opopanax, Habib had a (I think) YouTube video out earlier, Farage has brushed it off as jealousy, or similar. I hadn't realised Reform is a two Director party, 50/50 Tice/Farage, including funds. I no longer trust any politician/party, on cusp of giving up with all of them.

      1. I adore Ben Habib, KJ. The way he has been treated is repellent. He is not the first. Lost all interest in NF. Tice's only positive asset is Isabel Oakeshot and I do not trust that Zia fellow.
        As a PS – I also adore (and trust) Rupert Lowe.
        What a bollix they have made of this opportunity. All because Farage has allowed his head to be turned by American politics and his ego to overgrow.

        1. I quite like RL. Habib seems quite presentable far as I can see…perhaps just not ‘one of the lads’. As you say, egos to the fore, we can imagine how they’d be in government. My belief is CS run everything, anyway – the permanent (and unelected) government.

          1. RL has only recently come onto my radar. He is courageous, articulate, and donates his MP salary to local charities (money where mouth is, a rare quality). I have found Habib honest, full of integrity, for years and (before the triumphant return of NF) had always felt he was the natural leader, better than Tice.

            Anyway. The Reform party has just initiated a lengthy and bloody suicide, a la UKIP.

          2. Thanks – I’ve heard him speak, didn’t know about the salary donation – just gone up in my estimation. Habib seems consistent and reliable, not a fly by night. I think you’re correct re suicide, Farage on to next venture soon perhaps. I watched PMQs recently, he was tucked away back row in the corner, mostly ignored – doubt he’ll stick that for long.

          3. Farage needs to grow up and try not to be the complete autocratic Narcissist.

            Reform would be a far sounder party if it did not slag off the likes of Tommy Robinson and Ben Habib.

          4. They’ll need a broader church if they really want to succeed as a political force – how the Conservatives managed it, for a number of years (picture MT with the first people to buy their council house home).

  165. Off topic and one for the linguists.

    We do not speak nor write French to a medium let alone a good standard.

    Earlier today we had a long conversation with a tradesman who was doing some repairs.
    He had no English, or if he did, he wasn't prepared to admit to it, but we must have chatted for half an hour whilst he was doing the work. Topics ranged from the repairs, to languages and accents, to trips to China, to local wildlife.
    The trick appears to be to recognise a few words and extrapolate.

    One of the topics of conversation was integration. We joked about accents, and he said that one of the "tests" that show you are becoming accepted by the locals was when they move into the local patois, just to tease you.

    We both laughed, because our villagers often do that to us, grin and then explain.

    Perhaps we're becoming Franglais.

  167. Another Labour minister with a conveniently selective memory.
    Would Aviva really sack one of their employees for mistakenly thinking a mugger had stolen their phone?
    Was there previous history? Maybe many long 'dental appointments' spent delivering Labour leaflets? Other items of company property disappearing?

        1. The question then, could have been , "Who was the reason two underrated parties raised 4,000,000+ votes in 2 General Elections?"

          1. The back is as big as the front, and it is always a tiger trap as well as a blessing. Look at BoJo (for example).

            When are we getting the black non-swimmers tales? ;-))))

          2. Johnson was on a permanent ego trip. Always hated him.

            When I'm a bit less tired. I can still see the guy standing at the bottom of the pool looking up from 8' down as if he was wearing lead diver's boots.

          3. I will try and catch you, one day, before the drink kicks in on both sides ;-). It sounds increasingly fascinating.
            I always used to like Boris (I like the Rabelaisian qualities) but find him a bit shifty and pathetic now. And he needs a decent haircut, FFS – he looks like a middle-aged bag lady. What a difference a good/bad/thoroughly stupid woman makes, eh?

  171. Yet another.

    Transport Secretary Louise Haigh has fraud conviction as she admits misleading police after claiming that her phone had been stolen

        1. I was kind of hoping it would be a big stink in the MSM and a recall petition. But it's OK when they do it, isn't it?

          1. Not 'round Haigh's way. You can't throw a stick without hitting a Labour voter. They love it.

      1. Those Labour politicians, honest as the day is long.

        On the 21st December.

        And for those who will leap:

        Yes I do know all days are essentially the same length.

    3. "But Nigel Huddleston, chairman of the Conservative Party, told The Independent: “These are extremely concerning revelations about the person responsible for managing £30bn of taxpayers’ money." In a strange twist I find myself siding with Haigh on the point of her only managing £30bn. The Conservative Party have been in outright charge of the whole UK government since 2015, now look the mess we are in. They can jog on.

        1. Huddleston is addressing Haigh, not the whole Labour government. The Conservative Party had their go and they have done us over properly. It's ridiculous, like two bald people squabbling over a comb.

    5. Regarding the matter of the phone. From the couple of reports I have just glanced at the police seem to have investigated the alleged phone theft finding it was still on Haigh's property or somewhere in her orbit, it's not clear where the phone was. It was still switched on, great battery life I might note. The real story there is the idea of the police looking for and then even finding stolen phones. Salad days.

        1. Not from what I can make out, this is down London way. Haigh is now an MP in Sheffield. Turns out she has served as a Special Constable in the Met.

    6. Hell if that is the worst that she has done (been caught at) she would be line for most honest politician over here in Canada.

  172. I was (and still am) part of UKIP. Post 2016 UKIP was needed more than ever to stop what happened – which was Brexit in Name Only.

  173. Greg Wallace appears to be in the stew, but wouldn't it be good if all bald tubby men complained to the police about Stewart's Instagram post!

    It came as Sir Rod Stewart accused Wallace of bullying his wife Penny Lancaster on the show in 2021.

    'Good riddance Wallace… You humiliated my wife when she was on the show, but you had that bit cut out didn't you? You're a tubby, bald-headed, ill-mannered bully. Karma got ya', he said on Instagram.

    1. Penny Lancaster is an absolute Amazon – and part-time copper if I recall correctly – how on earth was she bullied by that little turd?

    2. A fat, gobby, talentless barrow-boy (costermonger) who only got a job on the telly because he was a mate of John Torode, the gobby Aussie cook.

    3. A fat, gobby, talentless barrow-boy (costermonger) who only got a job on the telly because he was a mate of John Torode, the gobby Aussie cook.

  174. To be fair it is cheaper to let older people die than go to all the expense keeping them alive with treatments and care they've spent the previous half century working their tits off to pay for.
    Sarcasm off.

    2. It's about the only treatment in Canada that is not rationed through lack of resources. Get a couple of doctors to sign off and you can get killed off. No need for this incurable disease rubbish, effective treatment can be available elsewhere but if your province doesn't have the money for expensive operations and drugs then assisted suicide is available.

      P.S. We are not completely immoral over here. It is only the weak that get killed off, even the worst murderers are given prison sentences rather than the death penalty.

  176. From Coffee House, the Spectator

    David Cameron has today become the first former prime minister to come out in support of assisted dying, having previously signalled his opposition to it in 2015. In a piece for the Times, he says that: ‘My main concern and reason for not supporting proposals before now has always been the worry that vulnerable people could be pressured into hastening their own deaths.’ However, Cameron says he has now been reassured by those arguing in favour of Kim Leadbeater’s Bill. Cameron argues:

    When we know that there’s no cure, when we know death is imminent, when patients enter a final and acute period of agony, then surely, if they can prevent it and – crucially – want to prevent it, we should let them make that choice,

    Of Britain’s eight ex-premiers, four have said they are against assisted dying. Gordon Brown became the first last week, writing in the Guardian about the death of his first daughter, Jennifer Jane, aged only 11 days, and how this strengthened his belief ‘this is not the right time to make such a profound decision’. ‘The experience of sitting with a fatally ill baby girl did not convince me of the case for assisted dying; it convinced me of the value and imperative of good end-of-life care,’ he said.

    Of Britain’s eight ex-premiers, four have said they are against assisted dying

    The splash of the Daily Telegraph on Tuesday revealed that three former Tory prime ministers were against the move: Theresa May, Boris Johnson and Liz Truss. May is yet to issue any public comment but is expected to vote against Leadbeater’s Bill, having previously done so in 2015. Truss told the Telegraph that: ‘It is wrong in principle: organs of the state like the NHS and the judicial system should be protecting lives, not ending them.’ Johnson has set out his thinking in an interview in this week’s Spectator, explaining:

    I wouldn’t vote for this bill, I think they need to go back to the drawing board. They need something that is humane and compassionate but would not lead to the industrialisation of state-sponsored suicide. I worry that we would be tending in that direction, even if this bill wouldn’t usher that in overnight. I worry that there are other jurisdictions where we can see where it’s going.

    That leaves John Major, Tony Blair and Rishi Sunak. The first two have been contacted for their views, while Sunak plans to make no comment before Friday morning when he will reveal what he thinks. Unlike his predecessors, he is the only one who still sits in the Commons and thus gets to cast a vote tomorrow afternoon.

    How might the religious views of MPs influence their vote? Listen to the latest episode of The Spectator’s religion podcast Holy Smoke, with Damian Thompson, Isabel Hardman, Rabbi Dr Jonathan Romain and Martin Vickers MP:

    1. Killing people who’ve committed no crime is wrong. The terminally ill need to be made comfortable and receive love and prayer.

  177. 397585+ up ticks,

    Pillow ponder,

    Tis my HO this must be pursued over a recorded time span of a month / two month period from an official start date, to test the strength of the politico's true commitment.

    Duration of stay in many cases until deportation or the "guest" has earned sufficient in NI stamps to show self supportment.
    https://x.com/RupertLowe10/status/1861775927245447609

    1. Remember back in the 70s when a lot of Ugandan Asians came here? Donald Coggan, who was then Archbishop of York, made a big display of taking a family to live in Bishopthorpe Palace. That family were very carefully chosen and stayed for only a short time. The father was offered a job teaching maths at my school and his daughter joined my sixth form class. They were nice people but it was all a bit of a scam.

      1. 397585+ up ticks,

        Evening SE,
        The time that happened I was there, working on a cement plant construct, in the middle of a war
        Uganda / Tanzania.
        Bush bar large warigi & fanta
        ( white lightening ) two bob, and the juke box only playing one record “Cecilia your breaking my heart” the asian luke box menders had left town.
        Oh and liver on bikes-spokes over Charcoal 1 shilling a pop.

          1. 397585+ up ticks,

            Evening T5,

            I take it it was from the
            long-horned steer, that got its throat cut under the tree that also doubled as the barber shop.

        2. You are older than you seem Ogga! I was there as a relative youngster at that time (although dispatched home to boarding school) as my father worked for the Geological Dept and we lived in Entebbe.

          1. 397585+ up ticks,

            Evening KP,
            Landed in Entebbe, then down to Kasese, grass field, then onto Hima village.

          2. We lived in a caravan in the bush initially, then Mbarara, Entebbe until Idi’s regime became unbearable and we left in 74. My father then worked in Fiji.

          3. 397585+ up ticks,

            KP,
            Two of us had eventually had to leave rather rapid as we didn’t have an entry visa and big dada was looking for white spies.

          4. 397585+ up ticks,

            Evening KP,
            Landed in Entebbe, then down to Kasese, grass field, then onto Hima village.

  178. Re assisted dying.

    My very late 90's M-i-L, fit as a flea, takes no medication whatsoever, lives in her own home with NO care, has suddenly started talking about Dignitas as a result of the current debates.
    I wonder how many very old people are now suddenly thinking similarly, either because of the debate or because of Reeves's proposals.
    "I don't want to be a burden."

    Very, very sad.

    1. My mother was determined to leave her money to her boys.
      She would not go into a home because it would cost too much and she continued to live at home despite everyone saying that she would enjoy a home better than being alone. I can see that she would have considered assisted death if it had been available just because it saved money.

      MIL on the other hand accepted selling her house and moving into a home a the right thing to do.

  179. Zoe Ball reveals health condition with ‘awful’ headaches following BBC exit
    Presenter says she suffers from temporomandibular joint disorder leaving her waking up in pain from ‘tension and jaw clenching.

    Years ago I had 2 root canal treatments .. so painful .. and what was so uncomfortable was having to keep my jaws open for over an hour at a time ..

    Because the DT won't allow me to comment on their column , no one has suggested that if she has had root canal treatment , that could be the cause .

    My pain lasted about 6 months .. I felt terrible.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/28/zoe-ball-reveals-health-condition-awful-headaches-tmj-bbc/

    1. Oh. I had a root canal back in March and there was absolutely no pain after the initial painkiller jab – and there hasn't been any since then.
      The biggest problem was not being able to ask questions and talk to the dentist.

  180. A vey tiring day in London, so I'll be off to bed now, chums. Good night, sleep well and see you all tomorrow.

  181. Quoted in part earlier, the full article.

    Trump is the last chance to save the decaying West from terminal decline

    It had started to feel as if civilisation had fallen, but the cavalry may now have arrived in the nick of time

    Allister Heath
    27 November 2024 7:34pm GMT

    Donald Trump is far from perfect, but he's our only hope, the West's unlikeliest of saviours, the latest in a select list of American presidents fated with rescuing the Old World from its own stupidity.

    Left to our own devices, Britain and Europe stand no hope. Our moral and intellectual decline is too intense, our institutions too broken, our economy too kaput, our politicians too cowardly and our Blob too powerful. We can only whinge, virtue-signal, tax ourselves to death and surrender.

    The good news is that we are about to be jolted out of our socialistic stupor. We need to be forced to spend more on defence, which is exactly what Trump will make us do. We need to be shamed into showing some mettle in the fight against extremists and anti-Semites. We need to be nudged, cajoled and inspired: if Trump is successful in his first 18 months, the global Overton window will shift dramatically Rightwards, demonstrating an alternative to Britain's Gaia-worshipping, soft on crime, quasi-open borders, pro-appeasement politics.

    Trump wants to unleash growth by slashing taxes and pursuing radical deregulation, liberating entrepreneurs and tech firms. He wants to ban DEI (diversity, equity and inclusion), embracing meritocracy and the colour-blind society. He is planning an assault on the universities: they have become woke factories that specialise in brainwashing young people.

    Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy want to drastically reduce the size of the state, fire vast numbers of civil servants, ban working from home in the public sector and eliminate endless regulations. Musk is sharing videos of Milton Friedman on X. Trump will take on the climate fanatics, and focus on cheap and plentiful energy, carbon-based and clean alike.

    His crackdown on illegal immigration will be based on a simple premise: countries must be able to choose who they let in. Foreign criminals have no right to stay. Trump wants to reassert democratic control: his plan is to appoint more civil servants directly.

    Unlike Keir Starmer, Trump is clear-headed about China. He grasps that it is a rival, hostile civilisation vying for global supremacy, the greatest threat to the West since fascism and communism. There is live talk in Washington that Trump may veto Britain's surrender of the Chagos Islands – where the US and UK have a military base – to Mauritius and into China's orbit.

    The People's Republic isn't a pre-Western society, a couple of economic liberalisations away from joining the free world, as many of us once naively believed. China is a nightmarish, ultra-advanced, militaristic techno-tyranny that surveils and controls its people in a manner that dystopian fiction writers could only fantasise about. The Chinese Communist Party weaponises and perverts globalisation, commerce and the price system for its mercantilistic and imperialistic ends.

    The scale of the economic divorce initiated by Trump is remarkable. In 2017-18, more than 21 per cent of US imports came from China; by 2023, this was down to 14 per cent. Does Britain really want to be dependent on China for electric cars if and when a real conflict breaks out in the South China Sea?

    If Trump delivers on his plans, America will also spend vastly more on defence, and hopefully better, with reduced waste and a greater focus on modern technologies.

    Trump was right to blame China for Covid: it probably covered up an accidental lab leak in Wuhan, and then normalised and exported lockdowns as the only solution, wreaking terrible havoc. While Britain is embarrassing itself by holding what is looking like a £200 million whitewash of an inquiry into our handling of the pandemic, Trump has gone nuclear: his appointment of multiple lockdown sceptics into positions of great power, not least Jay Bhattacharya, co-author of the anti-lockdown Great Barrington Declaration, to lead the National Institutes of Health, are a game-changer.

    Trump wants to reopen the debate about Covid, shake up the medical and pharmaceutical establishment, expose those – such as the calamitous former chief medical adviser Anthony Fauci, and the World Health Organisation – who wreaked such harm, and improve America's preparedness so it can cope without shutting society down.

    Trump's administration looks like being the most pro-Israel in history, and implacably opposed to Iran's mullahs and Islamists more generally. The cavalry, it would seem, has arrived, in the nick of time: it had started to feel as if the West had fallen, that it was too late to stem the tsunami of anti-Semitism and bigoted Israelophobia. Starmer's unforgivable decision to impose a partial arms embargo on Israel, followed by the ICC's incendiary move to issue an arrest warrant for Benyamin Netanyahu, were the culmination of a campaign of victim-blaming, delegitimisation and historical falsification against the Jewish state.

    All of this could soon be swept away: Trump is preparing to sanction the ICC and any country that collaborates with it, including Britain, and to go to war with much of the UN, a body captured by extremists, dictatorships and the far Left. He is going to apply "maximum pressure" on Iran to tackle its nuclear programme. Only America has the might to take on the global juristocracy, to reassert the supremacy of the nation-state, to expose the "human rights" lawyers as the dangerous Left-wing fanatics they truly are, to demonstrate that an alternative exists to this anti-democratic madness.

    Tragically, there will be no good outcomes in Ukraine. It has been clear for a while that America, including the outgoing Democratic administration, was tiring of supporting Volodymyr Zelensky. While Harris sounded more sympathetic, she too would have ended up selling Kyiv down the river.

    Trump will seek to end the war quickly, which means Putin retaining many of his stolen lands, but the president-elect won't want Russia to be able to declare victory. Trump won't allow Ukraine to join NATO, but otherwise his handling will be more robust than many Europeans suspect. The key will be whether Trump is able to force Europe into finally taking its own defence seriously: that, ultimately, would teach Putin a real lesson.

    Trump will make mistakes, and won't be right on everything. His style will grate with many in Britain, as will his bluster. His protectionism even towards allied states is one of many worries. But the mainstay of his agenda, if he delivers upon it, will transform not merely America but also global and British politics, very much for the better.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/11/27/trump-last-chance-to-save-decaying-west-from-decline-us

  182. Elon Musk Plays With His Super Adorable Son, X Æ A-12, Who Made a Rare Appearance

    Even though he is one of the busiest men in the world, the Tesla executive proved that he’s a hands-on dad. Recently, all eyes were on Elon Musk’s soon-to-be 3-year-old son, X Æ A-12, as he went on stage with his dad during a press conference, and no one could deny how adorable the kid was.

    As he took the stage to speak during the MMA Global Possible, the 51-year-old entrepreneur was holding a special guest in his arms: his own son, X Æ A-12. The little boy’s presence was all the more surprising given that we don’t usually get to see him.

    It looked like X Æ A-12 was a natural on stage, having the time of his life as he grabbed his dad’s shirt in one hand and a cookie in the other.

    Later that evening, Musk was also seen sweetly playing with his son, whose mother is his ex-girlfriend, singer Grimes. The pair also had a baby daughter born via surrogate in December 2021 whom they named Exa Dark Sideræl.

    The couple received a lot of criticism for their little boy’s name, who now goes by the nickname “X,” according to his mom, Grimes.

    Twitter’s CEO is a dad to 9 children with 3 different women. He married his first wife, Justine Wilson, back in 2000. 2 years later, the couple’s first son passed away at 10 weeks of age. They later had twin boys in 2004. The couple also welcomed triplets in 2006 and got a divorce 2 years later.

    In 2010, Musk married actress Talulah Riley, and the couple separated 2 years later. The next summer, they tied the knot once again and then got divorced in 2016.

    In April 2018, Musk started dating singer Grimes who is 16 years his junior. The couple had an on-and-off relationship in which they had 2 kids together.

    Just a month before having their daughter, Exa, he also became a dad to twins with an executive in his firm.

    We love to see glimpses of the adorable kids of celebrities. Dive into more similar articles that scream cuteness in all languages:

    https://brightside.me/articles/elon-musk-plays-with-his-super-adorable-son-x-ae-a-12-who-made-a-rare-appearance-812762/?click_id=e1ac355c-6175-49aa-a7e7-b14acc5abd66&utm_campaign=repost&utm_medium=square_cards&utm_source=brightside_fb

    Musk?
    Same category as Starmer perhaps .. meaning hell on earth ?

  183. Elon Musk Plays With His Super Adorable Son, X Æ A-12, Who Made a Rare Appearance

    Even though he is one of the busiest men in the world, the Tesla executive proved that he’s a hands-on dad. Recently, all eyes were on Elon Musk’s soon-to-be 3-year-old son, X Æ A-12, as he went on stage with his dad during a press conference, and no one could deny how adorable the kid was.

    As he took the stage to speak during the MMA Global Possible, the 51-year-old entrepreneur was holding a special guest in his arms: his own son, X Æ A-12. The little boy’s presence was all the more surprising given that we don’t usually get to see him.

    It looked like X Æ A-12 was a natural on stage, having the time of his life as he grabbed his dad’s shirt in one hand and a cookie in the other.

    Later that evening, Musk was also seen sweetly playing with his son, whose mother is his ex-girlfriend, singer Grimes. The pair also had a baby daughter born via surrogate in December 2021 whom they named Exa Dark Sideræl.

    The couple received a lot of criticism for their little boy’s name, who now goes by the nickname “X,” according to his mom, Grimes.

    Twitter’s CEO is a dad to 9 children with 3 different women. He married his first wife, Justine Wilson, back in 2000. 2 years later, the couple’s first son passed away at 10 weeks of age. They later had twin boys in 2004. The couple also welcomed triplets in 2006 and got a divorce 2 years later.

    In 2010, Musk married actress Talulah Riley, and the couple separated 2 years later. The next summer, they tied the knot once again and then got divorced in 2016.

    In April 2018, Musk started dating singer Grimes who is 16 years his junior. The couple had an on-and-off relationship in which they had 2 kids together.

    Just a month before having their daughter, Exa, he also became a dad to twins with an executive in his firm.

    We love to see glimpses of the adorable kids of celebrities. Dive into more similar articles that scream cuteness in all languages:

    https://brightside.me/articles/elon-musk-plays-with-his-super-adorable-son-x-ae-a-12-who-made-a-rare-appearance-812762/?click_id=e1ac355c-6175-49aa-a7e7-b14acc5abd66&utm_campaign=repost&utm_medium=square_cards&utm_source=brightside_fb

    Musk?
    Same category as Starmer perhaps .. meaning hell on earth ?

    1. I am still around just responding to very very old fella who attended the same school as me in Bath but a year earlier.

      I am familiar with The Trocadero and 25 years ago spent a year in the employment of an English millionaire who was seeking to acquire it. The attraction of The Trocadero is quite simply its position in Piccadilly Circus and at the confluence of Shaftesbury Avenue, Piccadilly and Regent Street. The building itself has been subjected to numerous barbarous interventions.

      We seem as a country to be in the grip of an Islamist invasion brought about entirely by Blair and subsequent administrations all of whom have succumbed to the admission of frankly alien cultures to our own. I do not have the answer. I would like to be able to leave the UK and build a life in old age elsewhere. I just pray to Gods Almighty for guidance and keep buggering on.

    3. Absolutely disgusting if 'those in charge' don't get a grip soon our culture and social structure is finished.

          1. Sorry,

            I was attempting humour

            "Those were the days, when we actually wrote letters to one another!"

            So I wrote 4, A, B, M, & L to you

Comments are closed.