Thursday 8 October: Does no one in the Government hear the screams from lockdown?

Posted on by Geoff Graham

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Today’s letters (visible only to DT subscribers) are here:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/2020/10/07/lettersdoes-no-one-government-hear-screams-lockdown/

696 thoughts on “Thursday 8 October: Does no one in the Government hear the screams from lockdown?”

    1. There was a very sad documentary last night about the blitz in Bristol. Damning to “British Values” was the inadequacy of public air raid shelters (although the documentary makers this time ignored the effectiveness of the Anderson shelters), where Bristolians had to choose between their streets running with blood and limbless torsos running around like chickens or airless smelly caves whose refugees were forcibly evicted by policemen with truncheons to make room for the BBC.

      Saddest and most relevant here was that little shop in the ravaged centre that survived the blitz, but was then pulled down in the 1960s under a Comprehensive Redevelopment scheme to create the spiritless and depressing modernist void that replaced vibrant streets that once made and sold anything.

      What damns the Covid Government today is how they are replacing a culture that survived both the blitz and the 1960s developers and gets by despite the hateful racism of BLM and the hateful exclusivism of LGBT with an empty void of spivs, chancers and Premier League style billionaires, sucking all the goodness out of the nation and replacing it with Kardashian/Sussex celebrity gloating.

      I rant in despair.

    2. Good morning everyone but me! (They say that talking to yourself is the first sign of madness.) And the second sign is answering yourself, isn’t it, Elsie? It sure is, Elsie.

      :-))

    1. What this tells me is that nobody can expect justice from the law, and that the law should be avoided where possible. Nor can we expect Christianity forthcoming from the Church of England.

    2. Is it possible to stage a coup against this apostate and atheist Archbishop? He is almost as evil as Traita May.

    3. That is an insult to every right thinking Christian and true humanitarian. If you aren’t a supported of teaching infants sexual deviation and LGBT indoctrination then you can be deprived of your occupation and livelihood. Farmor’s school in Fairford is a seat of sexual perversion and paedophilia. It should be closed and razed to the ground as an example to the others.

      I fervently hope that Kristie Higgs wins her appeal and the persons responsible for her sacking are publicly shamed and brought to account. If there is an appeal for financial support I will gladly help.

  4. Hooray, hooray!! Come and NoTTLe anytime.

    SIR – Does no one in the Government hear the screams and whimpers of this tormented nation, amid the unemployment, the loneliness, the heartbreak, the fear, the poverty, the despair, the cruelty caused by blind deference to unproved theories?

    If an enemy were to inflict such damage on the United Kingdom, they would be destroyed. Who will call this Government to account?

    It is as if someone who, to kill a hornet, sets off a bomb in a house – and in the ruins says it was the only way.

    Covid may be here to stay. There are many unpleasant diseases. Mortality is 100 per cent in the long run.

    I am 80, and it is no business of the Government to tell me whether or not to kiss my grandchildren, or whom I may invite into my house.

    It is time to dismantle the grisly apparatus of anti-social distancing and to pick up the pieces of life. Where are you, parliamentarians? People of Britain, reclaim your freedom.

    Elizabeth Clarke
    London W2

    1. SIR – If no vaccine is found, which is not an impossibility, and coronavirus is still prevalent, which with no vaccine is very much a possibility, will the Government still be expecting us to live like this a year from now?

      The utter misery being caused by their stringent rules goes way beyond the economy. A nation cannot work and thrive if a large section of its population is incapacitated by debilitating mental health issues.

      Stefan Badham

      Portsmouth, Hampshire

  5. SIR – I was delighted by Laura Donnelly’s report on the declaration by a large number of scientific and medical experts of grave concern about the huge toll of lockdown and their call for a return to normal living, with efforts focused on protecting the vulnerable.

    There is little evidence that crude lockdown is of real benefit, and its colossal short-term and long-term economic and healthcare detriments become more starkly evident by the day.

    I suspect that the reports of a rising number of positive cases could be better understood if they were always accompanied by indications of the proportion of young people (likely to have only trivial illness), set against those whose age or co-morbidities make them more vulnerable.

    It is probable that the majority of new infections are mild or asymptomatic, and should strengthen the case for reopening the economy.

    Professor R A Risdon
    London SW13

    1. BTL comment:-

      Robert Spowart
      8 Oct 2020 9:25AM
      Professor R A Risdon misses out one serious factor regarding the increasing number of positive test in his letter, that of the false positives caused by the RT PCR test not only picking up and amplifying fragmentary RNA from dead C-19 viruses but RNA from other Corona type viruses such as common cold.

      Delete2Like
      Reply

      1. Yes, this is so important it negates everything else. The new “cases” may only be the cast-off skin of a dead snake.

  6. SIR – My first reaction on reading that the mayor of Bristol had suggested to MPs that the toppling of the statue of Edward Colston was not “all about the statue” was to snort with disbelief. But, on reflection, I think he is right.

    These demonstrations, ostensibly about racism, have all been hijacked by people whose real aim is to undermine and preferably overthrow capitalism and our present political system. In that sense, the mayor is right: why would someone from the Socialist Workers Party care about an 18th-century slave trader?

    Roger White
    Sherborne, Dorset

    Wow!! If it really has taken you this long to figure out what BLM and Antifa are all about when it is writ large on their websites, I would recommend that you keep quiet about how dense you are.

    1. These demonstrations, ostensibly about racism, have all been hijacked by people whose real aim is to undermine and preferably overthrow capitalism and our present political system

      Sort of. It’s about destroying western civilisation and the people who created it. Which would be white people and their institutions, culture etc. The biggest capitalists are all-in for BLM and antifa in case anyone hasn’t noticed. They certainly don’t regard these groups as a threat.

      1. All part of the “Critical Theory” plan put together by the Cultural Marxists of the Frankfurt School as a means of destroying Western Society so it can be rebuilt in the Marxist style.
        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0fe9503ed7981d6a74acfd7bf88a310946081411bc27798cd7568e2c1f8fefc1.jpg
        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/0544b6b5f62582fd2562121bab8276aa28dc9fd4ef3f80ad421f86597ceaaa23.jpg

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/17e2b6a084c4837f1234da7127ebce4e9dba09454932f86a1f29ae7c0cc1f7c3.jpg

        https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/91761e491e87ac1c65fccb00bec22c49f5d6bb268aacaba6ca4eef4c94e31188.jpg

  8. BTL@DTletters

    Bill Legge
    8 Oct 2020 12:19AM

    ANTI-TRUMP BIAS
    Yesterday the FBI were forced to declassify documents, on the orders of President Trump about the Russia Hoax.
    They show that Hilary Clinton formulated the hoax and provided the money.
    The director of the CIA and FBI, Brennan and Comey, contributed to the fraud.
    The Democrat’s candidate Joe Biden was fully briefed on this attempt to disrupt democracy.
    And a storm is brewing in the USA that will influence the election in November and echo round the world.

    As I write this the Daily Telegraph has not a single word on the subject – Why?

    1. Our whole mainstream media is against Trump because he isn’t on board with all the latest globalist initiatives.

      1. …and, most of all, he’s anti-MSM…which isn’t fair….because the MSM are holy and above reproach, in their minds.

  9. Looks like the pandemic is now being used to destroy what remains of the pubs and bars all over the country, successive governments have been out to get the alcoholic drinks industry for some time now.
    Not part of the new world order plans I suppose after the reset.
    Pork products will be next, there seems to be a pattern to all of this.

  10. Looks like the pandemic is now being used to destroy what remains of the pubs and bars all over the country, successive governments have been out to get the alcoholic drinks industry for some time now.
    Not part of the new world order plans I suppose after the reset.
    Pork products will be next, there seems to be a pattern to all of this.

  11. Nicola Sturgeon was forced to take drastic action because too many are flouting the Covid rules. 7 October 2020.

    Like the virus that has caused this emergency, these measures afflict the population and businesses indiscriminately. Citizens and businesses who abide by the rules have been let down, not by any government but by fellow citizens who flout eminently sensible rules because they’re too damned stupid and arrogant to understand the harm they’re doing. That they might end up infecting themselves is bad enough; that hundreds, if not thousands of businesses might go under as a result is unforgivable.

    Morning everyone. It always works out really well when you tell the electorate that they are stupid and arrogant.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/07/nicola-sturgeon-forced-take-drastic-action-many-flouting-covid/

  12. It seems very strange that in the areas where there has been a big rise in covid cases that there is a large population of people that are not allowed alcohol for religious reasons, yet all they have done is to shut down bars and pubs while the cases are still rising.

    1. We have many Muslim friends in Turkey. Most of them are very happy to take a drink or two.

      1. I remember a day in Bodrum 35+ years ago. We had sailed over from Cos & it was a hot day. Couldn’t get a beer anywhere for love nor money. Went back 7 years later & alcoholic drinks were on sale everywhere.

  13. It seems very strange that in the areas where there has been a big rise in covid cases that there is a large population of people that are not allowed alcohol for religious reasons, yet all they have done is to shut down bars and pubs while the cases are still rising.

  14. Life can go back to normal if we make it our common goal to achieve herd immunity

    We have a relatively clear picture of who is at risk. Let’s isolate them from harm while the majority of people conduct normal lives

    SUNETRA GUPTA
    7 October 2020 • 6:38pm

    When asked how it all began for me, the image that returns is of the 90 year-old street vendor walking back home to her village because lockdown has now forbidden her to sell the few toys on the pavements of Delhi that might occasionally have provided her with a bit of food to eat.

    The costs of the Covid-19 pandemic were divided, right from the start, between the deaths caused by the disease itself and the deaths that have occurred – in many regions, from their inception – by the restrictions imposed to stop the spread of the virus.

    It has always been our duty, as international citizens, no matter what our political affiliation, to weigh these up against each other to arrive at the most humanitarian solution to this problem.

    Naturally, an understanding of the dynamics of the spread of SARS-CoV2 (the virus responsible for Covid-19) is of importance in making these difficult decisions. Mathematical models can be very useful in this regard, and these are all built on the premise that recovery from infection leads to immunity (not necessarily lifelong).

    The build-up of “herd immunity” simply describes the ecological process by which immunity accumulates in a community to the detriment of the pathogen; it does not contain any implication or acceptance of culling those who are vulnerable to disease. To steer a population towards high levels of herd immunity is a sustainable public health goal upon which we have relied to manage a very large catalogue of infectious diseases.

    While we remain uncertain about levels of herd immunity that have been attained to SARS-CoV2, we do now have a relatively clear picture of who is vulnerable to severe disease and death upon infection.

    The Great Barrington Declaration proposes that we exploit this feature of Covid-19 to formulate a strategy of Focused Protection, whereby those who are at high risk may be shielded to varying degrees over the period (a maximum of six months) it takes to acquire sufficient herd immunity while the majority of the population conduct normal lives – thereby protecting the whole community from the devastating effects of lockdown.

    Is this practicable?

    To answer this, the problem needs at first to be broken down into several parts. A relatively straightforward aspect is the protection of care homes and infection control in hospitals; fortunately it is also the largest component of this problem.

    We then come to at-risk individuals who either live in separate residences or for whom the family home can be structured to isolate them, as best possible, over the period of danger. This, it would seem to me, is not much different to the conditions imposed by lockdown – except, unlike the prospect of repeated lockdowns, there is always an end in sight.

    Separating vulnerable members within a family from those who are not vulnerable (such as within multi-generational households) is naturally a more complex problem but it is important to remember that it is only for a finite period.

    Resources need to be channelled into providing acceptable solutions, such as the temporary housing of those at risk in settings where they can safely interact within closed bubbles.

    Or it may be that the family chooses to home school their children over that period; a strong investment in catch-up schooling and personal tutoring opportunities following the period of isolation may go some way towards addressing the education and aspiration gaps that would have yawned wider as a result.

    Such inequalities will only be further exacerbated by endless cycles of lockdowns and other restrictions aimed at keeping “case” numbers low. Once sufficient levels of immunity have built up in the population such that the overall risk remains low (and this may already have happened in many areas), life can go back to normal for everybody.

    It should be our common goal to achieve such a state – which will be augmented by the availability of vaccines but cannot rely solely on that route – without causing irreparable damage to those who are vulnerable to other diseases, to the disruption of education and training, to job losses and food insecurity.

    Indeed, we should use this opportunity to restructure our social systems to address many of their inadequacies – gaps in healthcare and education – that this pandemic has dragged into an even harsher light than before.

    Professor Sunetra Gupta , Professor of Theoretical Epidemiology, Department of Zoology, University of Oxford

  15. 324373+ up ticks,
    Morning Each,
    “Wrong uns” in power has been showing out quite clearly on a daily basis
    since major tuck his shirt in his underpants after polishing off a curry.
    Of late I likened the semi re-entry campaign to a three tier missile, the wretch cameron stage one, may the treacherous the intermediate stage then johnson on course via the “deal”.
    Is there any right minded person to be found who would put their trust in
    a governance party’s rhetorically, repeated & abused vow,promise & pledge
    mantra.
    Methinks end game approaches,

    The ‘Landing Zone’ in Sight? Boris “Promises” Brexit ‘Full Control’ From January First

  16. Good morning, all. Raining.

    If the BPAPM really thinks that the “distancing”bollox will be over by next autumn – what happens when the seventh wave hoves in sight?

      1. Oddly I thought our entire Nation was being reshaped as a complete replica of Brighton: “Somewhere over the rainbow….”

      2. My former home town. It’s sad to see what it has become under years of Green-dominated loony left local government. Heritage abandoned and left to rot, eye-watering property prices, traffic gridlock in city-wide 20mph zones, unaffordable parking, and rough sleepers, graffiti and rubbish everywhere.
        I could go on, but it’s just too depressing.

          1. Indeed. They seem to be everywhere these days, but I guess Brighton was where it all started.

            When the town had its own police they were known as “the best police force money could buy”.

            They also wore white helmets in summer. These days it would be purple helmets I suppose!

        2. I’ve been following the surviving reruns of ‘Public Eye’ – a private detective series from the 1960s. Some wonderful footage there of West Pier, which today is a rather stylish water feature.

        3. I knew Hove slightly better than Brighton, as an elderly relative lived in a vast house very close to the front and we used to stay with her frequently.

          As a child I loved walking down to the piers and along to the small port at Shoreham.
          I have not been to Brighton for many years, but was was certainly already going down hill fast even then.

          1. We lived in a house in Norfolk Square, Brighton, but moved to Bournemouth when I was 4. I remember the promenade & piers. My grandparents lived just outside Shoreham.

          2. We had family holidays in many of the South coast resorts, I always enjoyed them and each place had its different character. The only downside was cold sea and mainly stony beaches.

          3. The cold seas and stony beaches are probably the only things that haven’t changed.

          4. I once went swimming near Durdle Door in March. Wonderful warm weather, but the sea nearly froze my cojones off. Tropical seas do tend to spoil you, but really cold water is found at the N. Cornish, N. Devon & Somerset coasts,

          5. but really cold water is found at the N. Cornish, N. Devon & Somerset coasts,

            That’s tepid water. Try the Banffshire or Aberdeenshire coasts for considerably colder water.

          7. Yes, oh pedantic ex-dentist, we have beaches. Of course there are cliffs and things in places too, but there are some lovely beaches around that part of the world…. if only the water wasn’t so perishing cold… my teeth are chattering just thinking about it.

            I visited Germany for the first time in 1968 (I was 9) and we joined up with our friends on their holiday by the Baltic coast. They couldn’t keep us out of the water – warm sea, it was blissful.

          8. My mad wife went swimming in the Arctic Ocean off Kirkenes one December. She lasted just 5 minutes.

          9. I used to like body surfing off N Cornwall. Long gently sloping beaches and really good, even, breaking waves.

            When the surf is crashing around, the cold isn’t as noticeable.

            The coldest water I can recall swimming in was the Irish sea up at the Northern coast of Ireland, although swimming off Nova Scotia was pretty cold too. As a child I don’t think one noticed it as much as one does getting older, I won’t go in the pool here once it has dropped below about 20-22 degrees, whereas I often swam happily in the lower mid teens 16 in the school pool.

          10. I used to fill my wetsuit with warm water from the tap before going out for a spin on the Shearwater cat in hairy weather. I had a dose of hypothermia only once, & that was in Poole Harbour of all places. It wasn’t pleasant.

          11. A friend was sailing on Semerwater in March, after a particularly cold winter. He capsized when the mast snapped.
            He was close to hypothermia by the time we him got back to the shore. We were on a scout camp nearby and using the lake for canoeing and sailing.
            I recall he took ages to get warmed up, but at least he remained fully conscious and we could get some warm fluids in him and dry clothes and blankets around him. Describing him as shivering didn’t do it justice!

          12. “Hove Actually” as it’s now known, as in “where do you live?”
            “Brighton. Well, Hove actually”

          13. I went to Brighton once. I only stayed an hour.

            I’d driven all the way down there from Chesterfield. I turned around and drove back all the way up again.

          15. How long ago?

            You should have turned right and headed down the coast, there are (probably now were) some lovely places.

        4. We did some work on the restaurant on Brighton Pier. When the shopfitters removed a row of banquette seating from the previous occupants they saw the sea beneath. The floor was missing and the massive steel structure in need of several coats of paint.

          I loved The Lanes when a student and of course The Royal Pavilion.

          The last time I visited, to survey a building for a restaurateur, I stayed in a boutique hotel overlooking the beach. I parked in a bay opposite and found I had to keep feeding the meter with pound coins to the value of £30 or more.

          As you say there is much neglect and formerly well kept buildings are left to rot.

          1. I loved being a student in Brighton so much that I stayed on and bought my first property there in the 1970s when there was still a lot of poverty and dereliction in the town, particularly behind the listed facades of the jerry-built Regency squares and in the streets of little two-up-two-down Victorian terraced houses, for which the council was then offering cut-price mortgages just to get the properties improved.

            Of course, rocketing property values soon changed all that and now it’s all about student flats, student flats and even more student flats, whilst the council has finally been shamed into doing something about the long-neglected, Grade II listed Madeira Terrace arches.

            I think the Royal Pavilion and Corn Exchange have actually improved since the grounds were restored to how they were in Regency times, but your comments about the Palace Pier don’t surprise me one little bit. I guess we must be grateful that it’s still there, still prospering (apparently) and still free to enter!

          2. I remember visiting the Combe Down quarry in Bath in around 1983 when selecting stone for Richmond House Whitehall. There was a large timber shed housing stonemasons.

            The stonemasons were carving the stonework for the restoration of deteriorated exterior parts of the Royal Pavilion. The original parts (mini minarets etc.) had a brick core to which Roman Cement render had been applied to give the appearance of stone. English Heritage allowed the replacement in more durable Bath stone.

            The company running Palace Pier also have interests in themed internal mini golf courses. We worked on one such in Plymouth. It has remained open throughout lockdown as it is possible to isolate small groups between the holes.

          3. I seem to remember that some of the minarets were replaced with fibreglass replicas, hopefully only as a temporary measure.

          1. Well, I never knew about that. Colour me pleasantly surprised – I would have expected anything endorsed by Brighton and Hove City Council to be rabidly vegan!

    2. ‘Morning, Bill. O/T, but did you see the prog on BBC4 about landfill yesterday? The slow rate of decay of millions of tons of rubbish is alarming – a newspaper from the 1980s was still readable. And some enterprising Belgian chap is planning to extract all sorts of useful materials from landfill sites…

      1. No I didn’t. We watched the slightly disappointing last episode of the “History of Writing” prog. Far too much about Chinese and Arabic….
        Interesting, too, that not once, in the whole series, was CAXTON mentioned…! Can’t think why…

        1. It’s unfortunate that electrical equipment, phones and so on, are being placed in landfill in the first place, but I suppose that extracting them from such an enormous volume of waste before being buried is just impractical. Perhaps a monetary incentive, along the lines of refunded deposits for lemonade bottles years ago, might help?

          1. Making things that are economically repairable might help too.

            It’s madness that something that is likely to continue to perform well after repair costs more to repair than a new one.

          2. It’s been a long time since things were built to last. My mother used to call it “built-in obsolescence” and she died more than 30 years ago.

            It is a wasteful practice – designed to keep selling stuff.

      4. There was this rather pretty toddler’s dress that had been in the landfill for 30 years, and yet still with just a cycle through the washer and a run over with the iron, it could be sold in Primark.

        I wonder if they could simply wash general waste, shred it, mix it with lime and then make breeze blocks for making affordable homes with.

      5. “And some enterprising Belgian chap is planning to extract all sorts of useful materials from landfill sites…”

        Not so long ago Radio 4 (probably ‘Costing The Earth’) featured a Belgian research project set up to find ways to extract precious metals from the PCBs found in electrical equipment. The people concerned were appalled by the way so many mobile phones were discarded. I think the same programme also feature a Dutch/Belgian team that was investigating the mining of household waste. It might have involved the same fellow.

        1. There was a Thunderbirds episode where people who “mined” landfill sites for discarded collectibles had to be rescued. Life imitating art?

    2. I didn’t want to call before 9.am. Bit rude. Sorry Rik, only got a two seater SLK now.

    2. Did she mean that Twitter is available ‘free of charge’, or is her ability at writing and speaking proper English terminally damaged?

  23. Pervasive obfuscation inevitably creates a poisonous culture of dishonesty, which gravely damages any body politic but especially a liberal democracy. Not only does lying make it difficult for citizens to make informed choices about candidates and issues, it also undermines policymaking. If government officials cannot trust each other, the transaction costs of doing business are greatly increased. Furthermore, in a world where distorting or hiding the truth is commonplace, the rule of law is severely weakened. Any legal system, to work effectively, demands public honesty and trust. Finally, if lying becomes pervasive in a liberal democracy, it may alienate the public to the point where it loses faith in that political order and becomes open to authoritarian rule.

    John J. Mearsheimer,. The Great Delusion. Kindle Edition.

    It looks as though we are going to get Mearsheimer’s “authoritarian rule” by default if nothing else. The Liberals in the form of the present government have already revealed themselves to be such as well as cruel and indifferent to the sufferings of the innocent. This is no surprise to the informed; they are after all ideologues with a mission and can absolve themselves with the excuse that they are creating a better world for all. That their adventures abroad ended in calamity is just an unfortunate outcome. Assuming a Biden victory when we emerge from this present manufactured crisis the world will be utterly changed. It will be in vulgar parlance a “Woke World” where obedience to the official narrative will be compulsory and deviations from it punished. There will be no escape from either its diktats or surveillance. It will be the boot stamping on the human face forever!

    1. That’ll give me something to smile about while I go and walk the dog. See you later, if I don’t jump from the top of the quarry.

    2. Censorship is already turning the Internet into the InterNot: – www = World Wide Woke….

      1. There’s no such person. The late, and excessively lamented (not in this house), Princess of Wales was a fool – but not that much of a fool. And she didn’t meet Hewitt until after both her sons were born.

        The answer to the question is “the Queen”. Harry’s position meant royal consent to his marriage was required – and given.

        1. I’m aware of that. My comment was tongue-in-cheek. My humour, in this respect, is clearly illustrated in this poem wot I wrote:

          Tongue-Tied

          Don’t worry, I’ve not lost my tongue,
          It’s not playing hide-and-seek.
          Loquacious, sensuous, fleshy thong …
          Is firmly, in my cheek!

          AGB ©1994

        2. I’m aware of that. My comment was tongue-in-cheek. My humour, in this respect, is clearly illustrated in this poem wot I wrote:

          Tongue-Tied

          Don’t worry, I’ve not lost my tongue,
          It’s not playing hide-and-seek.
          Loquacious, sensuous, fleshy thong …
          Is firmly, in my cheek!

          AGB ©1994

        3. I’m aware of that. My comment was tongue-in-cheek. My humour, in this respect, is clearly illustrated in this poem wot I wrote:

          Tongue-Tied

          Don’t worry, I’ve not lost my tongue,
          It’s not playing hide-and-seek.
          Loquacious, sensuous, fleshy thong …
          Is firmly, in my cheek!

          AGB ©1994

          1. He has always been in the image of Charles. I don’t understand why the rumours persist.

    2. Please could Ginge and Cringe be be completely defrocked, dethroned, excommunicated, disentitled, defenestrated, sacked and completely cut off from the Royal Family. Harry has brought shame and embarrassment to Queen and country by marrying this woman.

      What a sad fall from the celebrated prince and military figure he was not so many years ago.

        1. You and I are both blessed in that we are married to people whom we love and who love us. You were lucky to find your husband when you were young but I had to wait until I was forty – but it was well worth the wait.

          My second son, Henry, found his love at 17 in his first week at university but my niece fell for the great love of her life at the age of five and my sister has a lovely photo of them then hand in hand. They have now been married for 40 years.

          Thank God Caroline saved me from becoming a bitter, twisted and lonely old bachelor!

          .

      2. “Please could……”

        No. He will be his father’s son and his grandmother’s grandson for as long as he lives – whatever he does. That simply cannot be altered any more than you or I can change our parents.

        Even the Duke of Windsor never ceased to be his father’s son and he kept his HRH. Arguably, since HRH Prince Henry Charles Arthur David, Duke of Sussex, Earl of Dumbarton and Baron Kilkeel, is a younger son the fallout will be considerably less. The media will, eventually, grow tired of following them around. People will stop writing silly books and making spurious claims and they may be quietly forgotten – but they will, like all black sheep, always be family.

    1. My wife and I spent two hours talking to our friends near Melbourne today.
      Talking of Stasi neighbours,………they have their grand daughter and her husband living with them while their house is being demolished in order to build a new and bigger version on the their one acre plot. The suspect was a near neighbour lonely middle aged (with ‘Teutonic’ heritage) neighbour who appears (has been known in the past) to be creeping out and around at night time around the local area. Probably looking in their lit windows. They were subsequently visited by the Victorian Police department in the form or 4 masked officers, who demanded the details of the owners of the two extra cars on their drive. They took away all the names of the occupants. Fortunately as the guests were legitimate, no further action was taken.
      So watch it……………!

      1. 🍹🍺
        🎼Mingle bells, mingle bells,
        🎼Mingle all the way,
        🎼Oh what fun it is to mix
        🎼In a COVID viral way!
        🎉
        🍻🥂

  27. Rod Liddle
    Who’s missing from that list of Great Black Britons
    From magazine issue: 10 October 2020

    https://images.contentstack.io/v3/assets/bltf04078f3cf7a9c30/blt8fe42c2078472925/5f7dc006d4fbb50ef3076d74/Rod-Liddle-Getty.jpg?format=jpg&width=1920&height=1080&fit=crop

    There are two striking things about the new book, 100 Great Black Britons, which was compiled to celebrate the achievements of British people from an African or Caribbean heritage. The first is the sheer number of people included who are ghastly or mediocre or both. The second is the number of truly brilliant black Britons who were left off the list — for reasons which are not, I think, terribly mysterious.

    Under the ‘both’ category we have, to name but a few, Diane Abbott, David Lammy and the reliably hilarious Dawn Butler. There is also Kehinde Andrews, of course, a lecturer at a former polytechnic who will be appearing on a TV programme in your front room very soon opining about how everything in the universe, from hydrogen to oganesson, is racist. That man of limitless talent, Stormzy, makes the cut, as does Valerie Amos.

    But, as has been pointed out by the black writer Tomiwa Owolade, while there are black authors on the list, there is no room for Zadie Smith — today probably the most (rightly) renowned of them all. Does Zadie not quite match up to the brilliance of the transgender model Munroe Bergdorf? The next chairman of the BBC — with any luck — Trevor Phillips is missing. Brave, acute and witty, Phillips was also a pioneer of black involvement in public life.

    But then there’s no room for Trevor McDonald either; still less the brilliant black educationalists Katharine Birbalsingh and Tony Sewell. The latter has elevated countless inner city black kids into Russell Group universities through his charity Generating Genius and also served as education adviser to Boris Johnson when he was mayor of London. And that perhaps nudges us towards an answer — except to say that, incredibly, Raheem Sterling, easily the best footballer to emerge from this country in the past 25 years, is not on the list. No footballers are.

    The argument, I suppose, is that while Zadie Smith, Trevor Phillips, Tony Sewell et al might look a bit black, they are not objectively black. In other words, they do not reflexively swallow the resentment agenda: they are a little more nuanced than that. Smith, for example, has spoken eloquently about the ‘pain’ of some identitarian politics and the absurdity of those who accuse writers of cultural appropriation. Sewell is a social conservative who values the traditional family as well as such utterly outré concepts as hard work and discipline, which is how he got those kids into good universities. Katharine Birbalsingh is of a similar mindset and even goes so far as to describe herself as a ‘small “c” conservative’.

    And then there’s Trevor Phillips. Not only does he take the Murdoch shilling, thus aligning himself with the oppressor, he also seems to delight in dissing some of the more facile gripes emanating from the resentment lobby. A lobby which is, you have to say, both powerful and lucrative for those who are part of it.

    In not quite toeing the line, then, these truly great black Britons surrender entirely their blackness. They are not really black at all; the blackness you see is merely a subtle trick of the light, a mirage or a chimera. To be truly black is not about skin colour, then, it is about one’s propensity to gripe and blame. This was made explicit in the case of Trevor Phillips by one of those lucky people who were actually chosen as a Great Black Briton — the repulsive Kehinde Andrews. He accused Phillips of ‘coonery’ — being a black person who exists merely for the amusement of white folk. There are plenty of other horrible epithets dreamed up by this professionally embittered contingent to condemn those who do not share their views.

    Perhaps Phillips will be able to console himself that while he may not be a ‘great’ black Briton, he might just be the first black person to become chairman of the BBC. He would be an excellent appointment for three main reasons. First, he would be the first chairman with direct and considerable experience of the medium he was overseeing, as a documentary-maker, broadcaster and former producer. Second, while the BBC has made great strides towards diversity by the simple means of dropping into every single programme a black face, regardless of how appropriate it might be, the corporation is still run by white, middle-class public school boys and girls. Diversity is vital to the BBC except in the areas where it really matters, where decisions are made, a point which has been made before by the former head of BBC Westminster, Samir Shah.

    Third, the BBC’s cringing appropriation of wokeness grates with its core audience and, I think, would grate with Phillips too. He is not a Conservative, but he does have a certain handle on those vexed cultural issues which includes an acceptance that there are complexities which the bovine liberal left is often incapable of understanding, or deliberately misunderstands. Paul Dacre at Ofcom, Phillips at the BBC. Changing cultural paradigms is not easy: it is rather like trying to turn a supertanker 180 degrees in choppy waters — cumbersome and seemingly lasting an eternity. But Dacre and Phillips would be a good start.

    Why were there no footballers on that list of Great Black Britons? No room for the aforementioned Raheem Sterling, or for Viv Anderson (first black player to play for England) or the mercurial John Barnes? I suspect the answer is partly down to snobbery, plus the fact that football — a working-class sport — was light years ahead of the middle-class professions in welcoming black participants, regardless of the racist abuse many received in the early years. In football, the struggle for equality was won years ago, which is why they don’t like to mention it.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/whos-missing-from-that-list-of-great-black-britons?utm_medium=email&utm_source=CampaignMonitor_Editorial&utm_campaign=WEEK%20%2020201010%20%20FISHER%20%20AL+CID_5e7da086bac0cdcde2f1e32dc69447df

    1. Why are blacks so in our faces when they always conjure up images of trouble and strife , anger , genocide, tribalism, bad tempers, lack of self control and GIANT chips on their shoulders etc etc.

      Most Indians in Britain succeed, have solid settled communities, are wealth generators , and are far superior in intelligence.

      1. I see that you have been given a down vote – I was given one yesterday too. And now I see that one of my posts this morning has received a down vote.

        What is the etiquette as far as the Nottler forum is concerned about down voting? Down voting a friend is bad manners and I like to think that those of us here may have different opinions but we can remain friends without resorting to insults or downvoting. Perhaps Geoff could shed some clarity and sense on the question?

        I have never given anybody a down vote on this site. If I disagree with a point that has been made I either state the reasons for my disagreement or I just ignore it. It strikes me that down voters quickly resort to personal insults so it is best to give them a wide berth.

        1. There is no etiquette. It is a way for anyone to show their disapproval. When they were anonymous it was a bit annoying, but now everyone can see who disagrees.

        4. I see it was a guest voter who gave me a down vote.

          The down voter obviously didn’t like the nice things I said about clever educated Indians !

        5. It can be done accidentally. One needs to click it again to eliminate them, although in this case I suspect it was intended

        6. I have down voted for telling lies in the past. There’s no point engaging with someone who has just “won” an argument by telling a lie that they must know is a lie. But at the end of the day, it only means disagreement, nothing more serious.

        7. I have never given anyone a downvote either. I will generally respond, though sometimes not. I do try to be polite but I am sometimes a bit curt, or blunt, especially when I am supposed to be elsewhere. If someone is continually rude, for example, if they refute what I post without offering an argument as to why, I get fed up. So far I have only blacklisted/blackballed, that is blocked, one contributor.

    2. Perhaps the pages of our history books do not mention any Great Black Britons because there really are none? As for those on the list, I would not wish to be on such list. (Although I have been frequently blacklisted.)

    5. What about the miners? Most of them were pretty black after a day down t’mine.

  29. Amber Athey
    Pence takes Harris to the cleaners in VP debate
    8 October 2020, 7:29am

    Vice President Mike Pence emerged from the 2020 vice presidential debate Wednesday night with a sound victory over challenger Sen. Kamala Harris. The debate was, of course, calmer and more focused on policy than the presidential debate between Trump and Biden last week. Although it may seem surprising that such conditions would work in favor of the bombastic Trump administration, Pence’s unflappable demeanor and meticulous preparation proved to be his big advantages of the night.

    Pence started the evening by mounting a much better defense of the administration’s COVID response than Trump ever could. It was not necessarily convincing, but all he really had to do was survive what was sure to be the most challenging segment of the night. From that point on, Pence coasted on Harris’s and Biden’s disagreements over moderate vs progressive policy and Harris’s own hypocritical record on criminal justice reform, the Green New Deal, fracking, and more.

    Harris responded to these points by being overly defensive. Were she debating Trump, her cries of ‘excuse me, I’m speaking’ and constant eye rolls and smirks might have been excused as sassy and bold. Instead, they merely underscored the fact that Pence carried himself with respect and grace the entire evening. Certainly this will not be how the mainstream media covers the debate; they will quickly fashion Harris into a girl boss who resisted Pence’s efforts to mansplain to her.

    Harris’s petulance was especially obvious in her refusal to answer Pence when he repeatedly pressed her on whether or not she and Joe Biden would pack the Supreme Court. The Biden campaign has managed to wiggle out of the question repeatedly; Harris did so again by trying to reverse the situation on to the Trump administration’s ‘packing’ of lower courts with judges that she considers ‘unqualified’ and not diverse enough. Pence helpfully noted at the end of her answer that she still had not actually addressed the issue of court packing. She struggled again when Pence pointed out that she attacked a judicial nominee for his membership in the Knights of Columbus, guffawing that Pence’s attack was offensive, but failing to defend what she actually said. She bragged about working as a prosecutor but declined to mention her work locking up people for minor offenses.

    Meanwhile, Harris’s sharpest attack lines were either straight up lies or, at best, misleading. She claimed the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act only helped the richest Americans, but 82 percent of middle-class Americans received a tax cut under that legislation. She repeated the lie that Trump called neo-Nazis and white supremacists ‘very fine people’ and that he called all Mexicans ‘rapists’. Harris claimed the Trump administration demonstrated loyalty to Russia by refusing to raise that the country had allegedly put bounties on US soldiers. That intelligence has not been confirmed, has been actively questioned by the top US general in the Middle East, and yet still secretary of state Mike Pompeo confirmed that he warned Russia there would be consequences if they did implement bounties. Harris claimed that Biden has been ‘very clear’ on fracking, even though he said in July 2019 that he would ‘eliminate’ the practice, and reiterated in March that there would be ‘no new fracking.’ Now Biden claims he doesn’t want to end fracking. She attacked Trump for owing millions of dollars, demanding to know to whom he owes that money, even though the vast majority of it is public record.

    The only time Harris really got a break during the debate was when a fly landed on Pence’s head and refused to leave. Was Pence perhaps too stiff? That could be the only possible criticism of his performance. He even attempted to combat that perception, opening early with a snappy line about Biden’s ‘plagiarism’ problem, and closing with a reminder that the Democrats refused a peaceful transition of power in 2016 when they spied on the Trump campaign, accused the President of colluding with the Russians, and impeached him for asking questions about Biden’s family corruption. These were good reminders to Trump’s base that although Pence may be worlds apart from their leader in style, he’s still loyal on substance.

    *************************************************

    BTL:

    Paul Browne • 4 hours ago

    Mike Pence is Mike Pence, he’s never been any different, he’s a solid political performer and a righteous untoucheable man of faith that has held the Republican Party together through Trump’s more populous days.

    He gave those Republican voters a reminder what they would get if they were to vote for Biden/Harris.

    You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to fight your way out of it.

    A real liberal • 4 hours ago • edited

    As you predict the MSM have correctly identified that the truthful, noble and brave Harris humiliated the misogynous, craven Neanderthal Pence. The cultural Marxists knew exactly what they were doing when they identified their priority targets – the media, the law and the universities.

    Katy Hibbert • 3 hours ago

    Harris is a whingeing race-hustler.

        1. That magazine, which I have read since 1954 is becoming more and more woke and libtard. Very disappointing.

          3. That’s an interesting magazine.
            I just read this
            https://thecritic.co.uk/expelled-from-the-tory-party-conference/

            Banning people for asking questions is the new woke tactic – eg trendy lefty website StackOverflow just had a giant spat recently where they sacked a moderator for asking for clarification about their new rules on trans stuff. They’ve just doubled down on banning discussion, because apparently even discussing the trans political agenda is too offensive. It just has to be accepted!
            I didn’t expect this to have permeated the Conservative Party though. How are the mighty fallen!

          4. Thanks for the ‘heads-up’, Sue. It’s a new one on me and it appears to be a refreshing change from the usual MSM bullshit.

      1. I suspect that the left are far better organsied in getting their people to vote in such polls.

        1. Better motivated, better organised and better funded it seems. Much like their marches.
          Probably why they seem to be winning.

    4. It all depends on where viewers biases are, CNN wouldn’t see it that way. And Fox accepts that Bides lead increasednin polls right after the election.
      The bias really shows when calling out Harris for not answering a question. Even though he continually went over time with his responses, how often did Pence go anywhere near addressing the question posed.?

      At least this time, a few policies were mentioned in passing. Maybe a few democrat voters decided to switch after Pence attacked the green revolution, maybe a few Republicans switched when repeatedly reminded if the covid death toll.

    1. And a further reminder of how he became mayor, many people in London Jewish communities did not receive their voting documents in time for the day of the election. His feeble excuse was administration errors.
      And probably other imported reasons regarding postal and multiple votes at the same addresses.

        1. Many other places apparently Barnet is a much larger borough than it use to be.
          I suspect Hendon, Golders Green, Edgeware, Mill Hill, how that TLS he got away with it, is mind boggling.

    2. When will it stop? – when the last whitey is gone from this island – and then they will STILL blame us for having turned it into a 3rd world shothole.

  31. Covid vaccine ‘could be rolled out NEXT MONTH’: Leaked NHS documents reveal plan for ‘tens of thousands of Britons to get the jab every day by Christmas’

    Covid vaccination jabs are expected to be on offer by the NHS from as early as next month, as five mass vaccination centres are planned to be in action by Christmas.

    Leaked provisional documents have revealed the plan for hundreds of NHS staff to be deployed in five sites across the country – injecting tens of thousands of the public each day, reports The Sun.

    Those most vulnerable to coronavirus will be called up first, with centres manned by trainee nurses and paramedics planned for Leeds, Hull and London, the publication reports.

    Non-existing vaccine to be rolled out in mass vaccination program! You need your head examining to go for this!

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8816703/Covid-vaccine-rolled-MONTH-tens-thousands-getting-jab-day-Christmas.html

      1. 324373+ up ticks,
        Morning Bob,
        A parallel society will spring up, shades of 39/45.
        Pssst you wanna buy, a coloured market ( black)
        will thrive fueled by the abstainers.

      2. I doubt they will make it compulsory.

        What they will do is deny access to transport, shops, restaurants etc unless you carry a certificate and then pretend that you have a choice.

        1. My friend Mr Rashid is ready to mass produce false “certificates” which will be indistinguishable from the real thing.

          1. Horace, it didn’t say whether “asylum seekers” being landed at Dover by the Coastguard would be required to be vaccinated.

          2. It might infringe their human rights. We don’t have any, and we certainly cannot afford the same lawyers that the illegal immigrants hire.

    2. 324373+ up ticks,
      Morning AS,
      The post results could have very dire affects in a very short period of time, say nine months.

      Thalidomide, lest we forget.

    3. The article states that NHS staff will vaccinate hundreds of the public a day, but I couldn’t find where it said that MPs would be vaccinated first.

      Surely they must have complete confidence in their own product?

      Am I missing something?

    4. Plans are in place for Assessment and Processing Centres. There will be a number, probably around 40, of these around the country. Each centre will be able to handle upwards of 6000 subjects a day and they will be in operation for 365 days a year, for as long as required. Transport will be provided for everyone.

  32. The allure of a sellout Brexit risks turning Boris into the next Ted Heath

    The Prime Minister wouldn’t survive the ignominy of deceiving the nation with a dreadful deal

    SHERELLE JACOBS
    DAILY TELEGRAPH COLUMNIST
    8 October 2020 • 7:00am

    Like all good postmodern stories, Britain’s EU nightmare is ending at the beginning. Forty-seven years after seducing Edward Heath into agreeing egregious terms for the UK’s entry to the EEC, Brussels seeks yet again to tempt a prime minister into betrayal. The present is the past through the looking glass. In 1973, the price for joining the EEC was our sovereignty over our laws and our waters; in 2020 the price for leaving the EU is our sovereignty over our laws and our waters. Unless an honest offer from Brussels materialises, Johnson – like Heath before him – faces two choices: walk away or try to deceive a nation with an appalling deal.

    Is the EU banking on the latter? For all the talk of how far apart each side is in the final negotiations, they are closer than ever to agreeing two mutually compatible interpretations. While British diplomats spin that the EU is wavering on its insistence that Britain must honour to the letter the Withdrawal Agreement (WA), Brussels briefs that any deal will maintain regulatory alignment and that Britain must submit to a dispute resolution mechanism in the EU’s image. Put simply, while Britain claims it is poised to escape the legalistic clutches of the WA, the EU claims that its con trick to keep Britain in its orbit is so watertight that this doesn’t matter. In the padded cells of the EU’s post-truth prison, sovereignty is a state of mind, and everybody can be a winner.

    Still, there are signs that Boris Johnson grasps the dangers of getting sucked into the EU’s constructed reality. He has rattled EU diplomats with his “detached” attitude to talks, leaving crunch meetings to chief negotiator Lord Frost – unlike Theresa May, who was “always” on the phone to the likes of Angela Merkel. No 10 also surely realises that, after U-turning on the “contradictory” WA, blowing a hole in the Tory fantasy that it was a decent divorce deal, it will be tough to sell a sceptical public a second false victory.

    And yet the tang of a Brino lingers on the horizon. It carries the glum smell of history and fish. Brussels’ negotiating wisdom has not changed for 50 years: politicians will agree to anything if they feel they can sell it as a victory to their people.

    Take Heath, who arguably misled Parliament as he sacrificed fishing for Britain’s EEC “salvation”. He deceitfully implied that his deal – which secured British fishing rights for a 10-year transition period – would renew by default because Britain had a veto. In fact, the EU had a unanimous veto, giving Brussels huge leverage in future maritime talks, as our double-crossed fishermen discovered. Johnson should beware the temptations of misselling a bad deal. It is not difficult to imagine how his latest concession – a three-year transition for European fishing fleets to prepare for phased-down catches – could be rigged with an EU veto like in 1973.

    “Who cares?” many will say, given that fishing accounts for 0.1 per cent of GPD. But here is the rub: if the UK sells out on fishing, it consents to Brussels’ basic neocolonial principle. Namely, the EU is generously willing to grant the trappings of token sovereignty in exchange for legal control of Britain’s economic system. That is what Michel Barnier meant when he claimed last month that we own our waters but our fish is “another story”.

    The EU would endeavour to pull off the same ruse with the level playing field – with a deal that spares Britain the embarrassment of having to align with EU rules in principle, while compelling it to align de facto. Both parties might, say, agree in writing to common regulations without signing up to identical legislation. The outcome risks being the same, since we would grant the EU the power to force up taxes and stifle innovation.

    But perhaps the EU’s modest call for a “strong” dispute resolution mechanism is the biggest bear trap of all. Expect Brussels to offer a convoluted “climbdown” in the form of an “independent” body that acknowledges UK sovereignty while quietly allowing the EU to maintain jurisdiction over the UK – perhaps with a rigged EFTA-style court that ultimately submits to the ECJ.

    Brussels’ flexible attitude to reality is, if nothing, authentically European. The word “real” itself comes from the Spanish “belonging to royalty”. And so it goes that, in the elite Remainer “reality”, the EU can both defy UN Security Council resolutions and take the moral high ground on matters of international law. Brussels can both claim Britain is blowing up the Good Friday Agreement and insist on a protocol that usurps the principle of consent. Barnier can both take Canada off the table and play the part of drab consistency. And – vitally – the Brexit deal he offers can both be the deal that defiant Britain deserves and a good one.

    It is essential our PM holds on to some basic truths. Funnily enough, the old English word “truth” is derived from the Germanic word for “contract”. Johnson would do well to remember the democratic contract obliging him to deliver an honest Brexit to the voters who put him in No 10. Should he attempt to deceive the public, he risks going down as a bigger betrayer of UK sovereignty – and an even briefer serving Prime Minister – than Heath.

    And so we come to no deal, if only by default. If the EU is determined to seduce Britain into an absurd deal, and if the PM risks his career and legacy in trying to sell a bad one, then by process of elimination, he only has one option left: walk away.

    1. This is an interesting article. It certainly lays bare the near certainty that we are being betrayed once again, possibly even more thoroughly, more irrevocably, than ever before.
      However, Ms Jacobs does to seem to consider whether the Prime Minister cares a jot. He, personally, has nothing to lose. He will enjoy a PM pension plan for the rest of his days. He will certainly be invited to sit on a company board or two, will receive lucrative speaking engagements, and will be able to pursue a journalist career.

    2. Sherelle is an intelligent and sensible journalist – she is indeed one of the best arguments against racism. Compare her with the many white and black supporters of BLM – an organisation which preaches racial hatred and says that blacks are losers and victims who need special treatment.

    3. A three-year transition? They’ve already had four years (and counting) to prepare. Tell them to eff off.

  33. Morning all

    SIR – Walking past a GP surgery, I noted that its iron gates were firmly shut. Suddenly a nurse opened an annex door and shouted out. An elderly couple rose from a bench in the cemetery opposite and struggled across the road. Care in 2020.

    J P Bradwell

    Twickenham, Middlesex

    1. SIR – I agree that GPs have become an elusive species (Letters, October 6).

      Thank goodness for district nurses, who will come to your house, if necessary, with only their mask. It was one of these good people who saw that my wife was in trouble and arranged for her to go to hospital.

      Tim Sharp

      Wooler, Northumberland

  34. ‘Morning, Peeps.

    SIR – Can someone tell us how long it would take a couple of hostile submarines to wipe out our entire offshore wind farm capacity?

    Patrick Balfour
    London W12

    The wind farms will not be at the top of their list, Mr Balfour. That’s because they will initially be too busy taking out our undersea cables, the loss of which will be far more damaging. They know where they are and what they are carrying. Vital international communications can be destroyed very easily, including satellites. The technology has already been developed.

    1. Indeed, a sad day. They were getting quite tired though. Most of them had covered over 100,000 flying hours and, by comparison with 777 and 787 were expensive to fuel and maintain.

    3. Ah yes. Old American planes operated by a Spanish airline. That’s what I find sad. We have handed over our technology and our businesses to foreigners. (The French have a law that allows them to block foreign companies taking over French companies, the “Danone” law.)

    1. I have emailed them on this matter……..
      Dear sirs,

      Re your article in todays paper, perhaps you need to investigate the proposal to build a 50 mega watt gas fired power station in a valley at Parting Dale Lane or Burtonhole Lane and on green belt land in Mill Hill London NW7. This has been deemed essential by Barnet council and the London mayors office, given recent rise in house building on every available piece of land in North West London.
      Please feel free to send me the results of your inquiry in to this matter.

      Thanking you in anticipation…….

      UK ‘will take 700 years’ to reach low-carbon heating under current plans
      Energy experts say record rise in new gas boilers installed shows UK going in wrong direction

          2. I had previously sent emails to the green party, friends of the earth, all of the current protagonists in save the planet etc. Not one favourable response. Not interested.
            The area where i grew up has been inundated with building work over the past 25 years. Even where i use to play football on Saturdays is a housing complex. And still it goes on.

          3. I have had a another reply today saying they are going to look into it.
            We will see.

    2. “… Energy experts say record rise in new gas boilers installed shows UK going in wrong direction…”

      Nope, the right direction. People want to be warm. The grauniad disapproves because it’s not what they want.

      As for those hideous windmills – pointless, ugly and a waste of materials.

  37. Just seen this, no mention of religion though.
    “Concern over UK cattle slaughtered in Middle East”
    “Livestock from the UK is being shipped to the Middle East and slaughtered in “dreadful, terrifying” ways, animal welfare charities claim.”
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54435029

      1. I thought that they had been stopped. There was some argument a few years ago about live exports to Belgium and that is a mere hop compared to a voyage to the Middle East.

          1. We have never exported direct to the Middle East or North Africa except for occasional breeding stock, which is a completely different thing.

            Please see my response to Conway’s erroneous comment. There was no change in the trade in 1973, none at all.

          5. A case which was not about the legality or otherwise of exports, but about the move, by the ports, to restrict a legal trade.

            Not really the same issue.

          6. Exactly the issue, which you are avoiding with that purist argument. Wasn’t you, but I and my colleagues who lived through it, attacked in our homes by SHAC.

          7. Sorry, but it really isn’t “purist” at all to point out that the port of Dover was setting itself far less against EU law, than against UK law, the EU bit was no more than a footnote. Had that not been so there would have been no case. So no, not the same issue at all. UK law could have been altered and you would never have had a court case – but there was no political (or economic) will to do so. I’m avoiding nothing by pointing out the facts; which were, and still are, that the UK could have banned live exports but made no effort whatsoever to do so – even when their major port authority wanted it.

            Savage demonstrators were, and still are, vile – and no one should have to live through it. But plenty of farm families have been through similar things – as have laboratory workers and academics. Don’t blame that on legal trade, put the blame where it belongs on those who do the attacking. If you want to get the law changed – throwing things at the worker bees is neither fair game, nor effective. By siding with the savages, instead of looking after you and your colleagues, Dover brought about its own undoing.

            Do you remember the case of the lady who was dug out of her grave in a village in Staffordshire. (St Peter’s churchyard, Yoxall) I sang in the choir in that church and knew the people involved. They had protesters swarming all over them, their business, terrorising their children and eventually, digging up granny – for almost 10 years. One little farm.

            Farms where badgers have been culled are still being attacked from time to time – though the farmers are not the ones doing the culling. It has diminished, since the cull has become more widespread, but it hasn’t gone away. But that doesn’t mean that the protesters are right – anymore than they were right to do what they did in Dover.

          8. I’d forgotten that, it was at a time when I was just getting myself established in business, but I do remember the furore.

    2. 324373+ up ticks,
      Afternoon M,
      I do not believe it will cause much of a stir when governance party’s send troops / etc, over there to get treated in the same manner and lets keep in mind the
      parliamentary canteen menu.

      1. We used to have minimum values, which meant only livestock over a certain value could be exported. The rest had to go on the hook as deadstock. Guess what put a stop to that welfare legislation; I’ll give you a clue – two capital letters.

        1. Wrong. We were exporting the same dairy calves which are mentioned in that article for years before 1973. There was, in practise, no minimum value – if there was one on paper it was well below the market price of a 2 week old calf and therefore of no relevance (since a 2 week old calf was about as cheap an individual animal as was ever sold). They mostly went to France, Belgium and the Netherlands. Top quality, dairy cross bull calves – they were a little more expensive in the early 70s than they are now (but their mothers had better conformation) which tells you at least something about how the dairy sector is struggling.

          From the late 60s until the mid 70s we (family farm) were buying calves in the markets in Taunton, Exeter and Sturminster Newton and competing directly against the export buyers who also wanted the best and strongest calves (they still do). There was exactly no change in the trade on first January 1973 it carried on seamlessly. It should also, probably, be noted that from those markets it took the calves longer to travel by road to Aberdeenshire than it took by road and ferry to the continent. Ours never seemed to suffer any ill-effects from the journey at all, in fact they were usually remarkably obstreperous at the end of a journey which they largely seemed to spend asleep.

          The trade to Spain is more recent and it seems to be from there that they are going onwards (after growing for quite a few months) to north Africa. We have never exported direct to Africa.

          UK could have stopped live exports at any time, there was no EU legislation which prevented us from doing so. The excuse that the EU prevented it was the usual Westminster lie. The market was open to us, but we were under no obligation to avail ourselves of it and as we were not trying to keep anything out, it would not have been in contravention of single market rules. The trade wasn’t stopped, partly because we needed exports, and largely because the alternative option of slaughter at birth for an even higher proportion of worthless bull calves (and without the export trade they would be worthless) was even less politically palatable.

          On the other hand the export trade reflects how little food is valued in the UK and how great the pressure has been to drive prices through the floor – making the export market increasingly valuable in the business of earning a living by producing food.

          I’m sure that you will ignore these facts, or deride them, or pretend that I don’t know what I’m writing about – but I’ve been in this business all my life – and what I have written here is all fact.

          1. I beg to differ, Jen. it was, indeed, European trade rules which prevented us banning it from the port. £1.5m tells me so.

          2. It was European trade rules which prevented a unilateral ban by the port (and a handful of other ports) because that was a matter of restriction of a legal trade. European trade rules would not have prevented the UK from making it impossible to export other than from breeding purposes. Either by a direct law or by imposing unilateral welfare restriction (something we did on several occasions, so it was certainly possible) which would have made it practically impossible. The ports couldn’t stop a trade which was legal in the UK, but the UK could have made it either illegal, or impossible; EU rules didn’t prevent that, as various agriculture ministers assured us at various time.

            The truth was the neither financially, nor politically, was a ban a good move. And it probably still isn’t.

          3. Not the case: the UK was powerless, even if it had had the will, which it didn’t.

          4. The UK wasn’t powerless, there were many steps which could have been taken – right up to putting a stop to the trade completely.
            Ministers admitted that that was a fact, as long as they were sure of their hearers. They also usually assured their hearers that they wouldn’t do it, because they did, quite properly, lack the will to stop a perfectly legitimate trade which was of considerable benefit to the balance of payments and UK livestock farming. If the British would have learned to eat veal we could have solved the problem – but although the veal trade is now as humane as any other (both in the UK and in the rest of the EU) the market for veal in this country remains very small.

            As I pointed out last night, calves frequently travelled for longer on internal UK journeys. If one has made the decision to eat meat one cannot avoid the fact that it involves the trade in, transport of, and slaughter of sentient beings. I made that decision a very long time ago with an intimate knowledge of what the trade really involves – from birth to death. Others made different decisions – and that was their right. What was never their right was to use thuggish behaviour, threats and downright chaos to try to force everyone else to think as they did.

            The port of Dover, having once paid the Danegeld would have found itself held to ransom again, and again. The trade, in any case, left Dover of its own accord eventually and as the UK dairy herd diminishes so do the number of calves exported. Though if the current pressure to end the slaughter of new born bull calves continues and the overseas trade is banned I foresee a whole raft of further difficulties. Sexed semen will need to come down in price.

    2. That is a terrible disaster, I suspect the third world are gathering together a fund for all the victims to make life more comfortable.

    1. The BBC is not taking account of the proper way of comparing different types of population which is necessary for getting a true national picture of the influence of causes of death across the UK.

      Who knows that the ONS value of ASMR (Age-Standardised Mortality Rate) must be used to make any meaningful comparison of causes of death across the whole community?

      I didn’t!

    2. “Read this biased article from the BBC…”
      As their audience figures show, most British voters say “No thanks.”

  40. Shock news from Scotand this morning was that COVID tested positives are rising at the rate of 7% per day.
    Well that’s a rate of R=1.07 and is pretty low by COVID-19 standards.

      1. Panic in Holyrood as leading pathologist announces findings showing that the official death rate for Scotland is one per person.
        :¬(

        1. Ye’ve dropped yer baseball cap, Grizzly. Are ye wearin’ yer trousers, Donald Grizzly? (If not, try looking in yer fridge.)

          :-))

    2. I wish the stats were more opaque – or I could interpret them better: if 100 people are infected, but only 1:10000 actually have died from it, surely that’s a 1% infection and 0.01% mortality ratio?

      My primitive calculations may be way off, but with a population of millions and 50,000 infected surely that’s statistically insignificant?

      1. If they test 100 people, who, just by sheer chance/coincidence are ALL positive – – BUT happen to be the only people in the area to have the virus – then we’ll get absolute chaos as 100% will SHOW as being infected – but only a minority WILL be.

      3. The MSM thrives on headline grabbing news.

        With so many different ways of presenting irrelevant data there’s a continuous stream of eyecatching headlines to put fear into the general public .

        That of course applies only to those of us who can read the headlines.
        The rest of us follow links like the one below which featured in my latest disqus session. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e4e72a0ab11fa8354dae3ada70f67e34dda9c74ae9865bec4f33238aa2149cb5.jpg

        1. So you’re saying, Angie (© Cathy Newman) that the latest Covid-19 figures are 38:24:38?

          1. I’m afraid it is known in the industry as a hook.
            If you click on her she will take you up the garden path!

  41. Good morning everyone, and thank you again for the warm welcome you gave me yesterday.

    Could do with some warmth this morning in a wet and windy Hampshire!

    2. Hello, RN!

      Sorry to have missed your appearance and welcome yesterday. For various family reasons I’m only on here sporadically and not nearly as much as I would like to be (and used to be).

      You will find Notl is one of the kindest and most all-round interesting community of intelligent people, that you could find on a forum. Like a family we have our ups and downs and disagreements, but IMO there is a close caring community here.

      Welcome!

    3. Welcome Arno. Another Nottler noob 😄.
      I’m sure you’ll find our waffling and occasional petty squabbles fun.

        1. Don’t worry, neither do I. I’m a newcomer – only been here for 22 years 🙂

  42. https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/77d72e2f3e1435ad648fdef827432c42f0a27b2a9fc86346ca15d220a6e7d3f2.png Charles Douglas Barr enjoys a last pint outside The Last Drop in the Grassmarket, Edinburgh, ahead of the announcement by Nicola Sturgeon that pubs will have to close across central Scotland to stop the spread of Covid-19.

    I reckon that bonnie wee Charlie would have promoted a better vision of a Highland Warrior (despite his preference for a skirt over troosers) if he’d been portrayed drinking a pint of real ale from a ‘sleever’ rather than as he is shown here, sipping urine from a flower vase!

    2. It’s not his drink, he’s just emptying the glass so he can ‘glass’ the landlord for closing.
      To be honest the outfit suits him. Not cheap either, I imagine.

      2. I am not an enthusiast for tattoos. It is the one thing I have against Laurence Fox and I wish he would have laser treatment to get the beastly things removed.

        When I was young tattoos were only acceptable on men who were sailors (ratings not officers) or gypsies.

    1. I think some sections of the community would have great pleasure in volunteering for such a test!

    1. Who are you betting your money on N. Michel or Boris?
      Worryingly, Boris is still the best we have.

        2. ‘Afternoon, J, I tend to put all these ‘threats’ down to the bluster of the school bully penned in a corner without any real mates close. I still say that our answer should be that if we cannot continue without our agreeing to your outrageous demands, then good-bye and we walk – the whole negotiating team, every man and woman Jack and Jill.

          Don’t be afraid to be the one to terminate the talks ‘cos that’s also what all this bluster is about; so that the EU can say, “They gave up, not us.”

          4. The trouble is, Tom, that we need someone who a) believes in the UK and b) has the courage of his/her/its convictions. These are properties which are singularly lacking in Westminster at the moment.

      2. If Boris is the best we have we are doomed! I would have used the F word, but it’s before the watershed.

    2. My money is on he will not walk.
      He supported Brexit as a means to an end, Boris and his party are enthralled with the EU. His final agreement will be a turd of a deal. I have no confidence in him or his party, still far too many MPs who were happy to work against the referendum result being re-selected to stand at the last GE.

    3. The reporter on the fishing boat closed the snippet by saying more fish for us comes at a cost to the EU. Aaw, Diddums. Is this bloke unaware that our fish has been given away at least three times, to the enrichment of the French and others?

      1. I reckon that the value of the fish taken by EU boats from British waters over the years should have counted towards our financial contribution to Brussels.

      2. Those huge supertrawlers should be banned from our waters. I don’t object to the small fishermen who have had rights for centuries.

          2. Our bloody Rayburn is messing us about. The pilot light for the oven keeps cutting out.
            At least the boiler side is still ok.

          4. Many years ago my MiL once had Dr David Owen on the floor of her kitchen……..relighting the pilot light on a floor standing boiler!

    2. Get to Boris, let’s ban ALL this halal nonsense which only serves a purpose of providing a cruel animal death.

        1. Good morning Stormy lovely to meet you as well. We were home by 5.30 having dropped G off in Guildford and R off on Woking where we live.

  47. Moh , son and I have bad throats, slight congestion , and not feeling 100%

    Moh didn’t get a full round of golf in yesterday , and he looks terrible. Son is still working , although has sore throat and congestion.. I am aching. Moh and I had our flu jabs about 10 days ago.

    I suspect because the weather has changed and the C/H is now switched on in the evening that many people will will have seasonal sniffles.

    At what stage should one have the Covid test, and with what symptons?

    1. “Son is still working.”

      I’ll say. He scored a wonderful hat-trick for Spurs last week; even outscoring Kane.

    2. Both Rastus and I have been similarly afflicted. I spent a couple of days in bed, sleeping a lot while Rastus brought me lots of yoghurt which was the only thing I could eat. I’m fine now; Rastus has the bug but hasn’t resorted to bed rest. Neither of us have had a temperature at all. We decided our symptoms weren’t anything like Covid and so we didn’t go to the doctor or have a test.

      I think this is the time when lots of people get colds – and a bad cold can make you feel really rough. Keep warm, drink comforting hot drinks (honey, ginger and lemon has already been mentioned; we drink a home-made spicy elderberry cordial topped up with boiling water) and don’t panic – Covid is not the only virus that is circulating! To relieve the aching I took some ibuprofen; Rastus isn’t allowed that so he takes paracetamol.

      Here in France the consensus on cold symptoms (such as you describe) is that the time to call the doctor is if your symptoms aren’t improving by themselves after three days.

    4. Dry, persistent cough, loss of taste and smell seem to be the main ones. Don’t bother with a test, just stay at home, keep warm and hydrated and call the Dr if you take a turn for the worse.

    5. Sounds like the ‘flu jabs, to me, Mags.

      Where is your nearest testing place?

      EDITED

      The main symptoms of coronavirus are:

      0 – a high temperature – this means you feel hot to touch on your chest or back (you do not need to measure your temperature)
      0 -a new, continuous cough – this means coughing a lot for more than an hour, or 3 or more coughing episodes in 24 hours (if you usually have a cough, it may be worse than usual)
      0 -a loss or change to your sense of smell or taste – this means you’ve noticed you cannot smell or taste anything, or things smell or taste different to normal

      Most people with coronavirus have at least 1 of these symptoms.

    6. I wouldn’t have it at all. As far as I’ve been able to find out, the PCR (Polymerase Chain Reaction) test is not a Covid test. Because it apparently isn’t possible to obtain a large enough DNA (DeoxyriboNucleic Acid) sample to analyse, what PCR does is multiply and amplify a single DNA sequence in order to simulate a larger sample. It’s then possible to detect viral RiboNucleic Acid. What it can’t do – and was never designed to do – is identify which virus it has found and whether it’s dead or live virus. So it may be telling you that you had a cold last year or that you have SARS-CoV-2 and are in for a bumpy ride – or any point in between. PCR is a screening tool for research purposes. It’s not a diagnostic tool. Kary Mullis, who won a Nobel Prize for inventing it, was clear about that.

      1. “Simulate”…eh? Sounds like what Prof Branestorm did with his “model” about millions dead.

        1. I’ve probably used the wrong term, Bill! It took me a while to understand what is meant by 45 cycles in connection with PCR but I gather it’s about running a process multiple times to amplify/magnify the DNA sample.

      2. Thnks for that Sue .

        When Moh has a cold , he becomes very chesty , he hasn’t got an old fashioned cold , but he sounds congested .. Son has a proper cold and is congested .. both don’t have a fever .

        I think this is a seasonal thing, at least I hope so !

        1. Hot lemon, ginger and honey. Not only is it comforting, all three items help to tone the immune system.

      3. A clear explanation. Why don’t our politician understand that, especially as they are “following the science”?
        I have elsewhere described this test as detecting the discarded skin of a snake that has now gone elsewhere. It does not detect the snake.

      5. I walked past a gathering of vans and people in High Viz on a car park this morning and wondered what the heck was going on – then I noticed it said “NHS” on the back of one of the jackets, so I reckon a testing centre has been set up. I don’t think there were many victims – most people probably don’t know it’s there!

        1. Ah, if the vans were there this morning I doubt they’ll actually start doing anything until Monday next.

      6. The first part of the process is to combine the RNA into an artificial DNA which is then amplified to give a sufficiently large enough amount to actually test.
        It is the number of times the amplification process is used on the sample that is causing concern as it also amplifies the RNA from dead viruses, including RNA fragments as well as picking up on markers common to the Wuhan C-19 virus and other corona type pathogens.

        1. Thanks, Bob. I was confused, reading about this, by the references to 35-45 cycles. It makes sense in the context of the amplification process. I’ve also read that it was originally intended for cancer research?

  48. Is it my imagination, but did NoTTL disappear for a few minutes?

    Yes, GCHQ – it’s YOU I am asking…{:¬))

    1. I tend to blame it on internet glitches, and my own stupidity, rather than GCHQ.
      Each to their own 🙂

      1. Just because you’re self-confessed stupid and have glitches in your Internet, doesn’t mean GCHQ isn’t out to get us 🙂

    2. Was it NoTTL – or Disqus? A few days ago others had had trouble with Disqus – mine was ok. The day after, mine was haywire, as was the day after that. Then I realised that for some reason the order system I had selected had altered and I was no longer getting the newest at the top. One reset and all was ok again.
      An unwanted update to Win 10 months ago blocked me out of Skype for ages. Had to search for a help forum – where someone had discovered the update was the cause. This one now is ok – but I still can’t get back onto Skype on the old laptop. On that one, having tried several passwords – all rejected because of their mistake – the system there now thinks i am trying to hack into it, instead of realising it is still coming through the same router and phone connection.

      1. That’s twice in five minutes that my pore brane has stopped working! (See below)…{:¬))

      1. Or the ‘cremori segetem’ as I shall call ourselves from now on.

        Hello Phizz 🙂

        1. Hello Storm.

          My bowl is as deep as a small puddle. *** My Latin is terrible. As am I. 🙂

        1. Only an hour from Guildford for me. I did think about how long it would take you to get home. I assumed you would fall asleep on the train and end up in Inverness. 🙁

  49. Good afternoon, fellow NoTTLers, I have been a trifle more absent than I wish as I’m battling with collecting as much cogent information as I can in order to mount some sensible objections to the planned ‘Bramford Flowton Solar Farm’.

    I wonder if I might enlist your aid as, while I know the Parish acreage, where might I find information on the actual acreage of a complete village?

      1. Thanks, Bill but that’s the size of the Parish and not the whole village that extends outside the parish boundaries.

          1. A good idea, Bill but I don’t want to alert them, as one of their councillors (also on the planning committee) has declared an interest in the land but not the Solar Farm that will be largely on his land. We are waiting for planning permission to be sought before we deluge them with our objections.

          3. Thanks again, Bill, I’ll try all the above suggestions except those I’ve already tried.

          6. Ah. Don’t bother. They’ll get what they want regardless of your complaints.

            Most councils are corrupt. If one has skin in the game he’s likely bent and on the take and his chums will push through whatever he wants for a cut of the profit.

          7. Once again, Wibbles thanks for agreeing with what I see as corruption but if I can scotch their little plan, I will be a happier (if not a dead) man.

      1. Thanks, Mags but …
        ….Searching by variations of ‘Flowton, area in acres’ or ‘Flowton, total acreage’ produces no results.

          2. Thanks, Geoff, that’s the Parish map that I’m very familiar with.

            Best Beloved, who has lived here about 18 years and is Secretary of the local PCC (Parochial Church Council) responsible for the fabric only of the church and Flowton is too small to have a Parish council, is adamant that the Parish and the village are one and the same.

            Whilst bowing to her superior knowledge, I feel that the village boundaries may well be outside the parish boundaries.

            BTW, I was elected (in absentia) as Lay Chairman of that same PCC. The vicar is the Chairman.

          4. Good luck, Tom. Our APCM will be via Zoom. Several Churchwardens have outstayed their welcome. Legally.

            This is the only Parish where the organist has been excluded from participation. Elsewhere I’ve been ‘ex-officio’, if not actually voted on. I feel a revolt coming on…

          5. Sorry, Tom – that’s the parish boundary above. In aerial view, the parish is mainly fields. It’s not obvious to non-Flowtonians what actually constitutes the village. But open Bing Maps, search for Flowton, display aerial view, right click on a point, select ‘measure distance’ and off you go…

    3. You might be able to do a quick and dirty calculaton using an ordnance survey map. You should be able to get some at better than OS 1″ from a local library (assuming covid hasn’t shut them.) I would try to get hold of older versions because there will be less “clutter”

      It will require tedious measuring , but Squaring off or using rectangles and then calculating each one and adding up the results should give a reasonable approximation.

      I am guessing that Bramford Enso is the project and there ought to be enough information from their website to overlay on a better map.

      https://www.ensoenergy.co.uk/proposed-projects/bramford/

      1. Or – there are websites which allow you to ‘draw’ on a Google map (or similar) and they’ll work out the area for you. Don’t have a link, sorry…

          2. Hello Geoff. I’ve just got in 🙂. First thing I did was log in go Nottl to see who is about.
            ‘Twas a very fine day; it was an interesting paradox, sitting with complete strangers* who I fe.t I have known all my life.

            *No longer 🙂

          4. Phizzee didn’t show?

            Sorry Phizzee, open goal and irresistible, blame GG for the opportunity and your SLK comment to R-R for the cause.

      2. Thanks for that Sos, it may, eventually be the answer but, while I have a map of the PARISH boundaries, I don’t believe that they, being ecclesiastical are the actual VILLAGE boundaries and I don’t know (but will check) if Ordnance Survey do town and village boundaries. Only County, I suspect.

        1. Drop them a line and ask? The might be able to do a custom map of that specific region?

        2. Tom – OS maps don’t generally show ecclesiastical parish boundaries. They generally state “CP”, which is short for civil parish. If you scroll down, you’ll see I’ve measured Flowton CP, which is as near as dammit 2 km²

          1. I wonder, Geoff how 2 km² converts to acres – I have 495 acres but that, again is the Parish acreage.

          2. 2 km² = 494.21 acres

            For future reference 1 km² = 100 hectares. The conversion rate for hectares to acres is 2.4711 (or 2.471044, if you want to be incredibly exact).

            Hectares to acres (or the other way) is a sum I have to do at least once a week, so that one doesn’t even have to be looked up.

        3. You may be pleasantly surprised.
          I know that, for example, the Cambridge City boundary was well delineated, because there was an annual boundary run and that covered multiple parishes.

          And take note of GG’s comment below re a “draw” facility.

    2. That happened to me about 15 plus years ago in Marks and Spencer lingerie dept.

      I have related this story before , years and years ago a few large Russian merchant ships were left stranded by their company in Weymouth bay .

      The crew were quite clearly Russian and from that part of the world , and according to the local paper, enjoyed visiting the shops in Weymouth .

      I was shopping for bits and pieces in M+S , when a chap started to follow me around in the lingerie dept. I wasn’t too sure that I felt happy being stalked, anyhow … he was rather tall but bulky very blue eyed chap indicated that he wanted to speak to me , and pointed to some pretty bras, and came so close to me , that I thought he was about to feel me , I backed away and told him to ask the shop assistant , he waved his arms , indicated he couldn’t speak English . he wanted to know my size , because he wanted to buy some bras for his wife , he came really close to squeezing me .. so I helped him with the size he needed .. he was so happy and gesticulated like mad how grateful he was .

      He bought several very nice bras for his wife, he probably posted them to her.

      People use their hands in so many ways if you know what I mean!

      1. Near Stuttgart I had a giant of a Russian patient, who spoke neither German nor English. I cheered him up by reciting simple Russian sentences from a course taken years before. The equivalents to “The cat sat on the mat”, “she buys bread in the town”, “he works in a power station” soon had him laughing.

    3. Good that the jury were able to see their way to acquit him…

      I’ll get me white stick…

  51. Brendan O’Neill
    The collapse of the Cambridge Analytica conspiracy theory
    8 October 2020, 10:50am

    So there you have it. Cambridge Analytica was ‘not involved’ in the 2016 EU referendum. The digital marketing firm that Remainers love to hate did not swing the British electorate towards Leave, as we were constantly told. In the words of the Guardian, no doubt uttered through gritted teeth, Cambridge Analytica did not ‘directly misuse data to influence the Brexit referendum’.

    These are the conclusions of the Information Commissioner’s extensive three-year investigation into Cambridge Analytica. Throwing a big bucket of cold water on the chattering-class belief that Cambridge Analytica stealthily and probably illegally harvested people’s online data in order to manipulate our minds and make us vote Leave, the Information Commissioner Elizabeth Denham said yesterday that, in truth, CA was not a significant player in the referendum, ‘beyond some initial enquiries’.

    What’s more, Denham and her office found no evidence to back up one of the key stories about CA – that it colluded with Russia to shift Brits towards Leave. Denham, in her letter to MPs outlining the findings of her investigation, says her staff uncovered no ‘additional evidence’ of Russian involvement in the referendum on the Cambridge Analytica computer servers they pored over.

    Oh dear. It is difficult to recall the last time a theory collapsed so spectacularly. All those stories we were told about Cambridge Analytica — that it virtually puppeteered the electorate, that it was the shadowy force behind Brexit, that it cosied up to the Ruskies — have fallen apart. There is no hard evidence for these wild takes about CA.

    Indeed, the Information Commissioner’s Office concludes that CA used online data in a fairly standard way. ‘On examination’, it says, CA’s methods were ‘well-recognised processes using commonly available technology’. That was always one of the most striking things about the anti-CA hysteria of the past four years – it struck many of us that this company was only doing what other political campaigns, including Barack Obama’s, had done, in terms of tapping into online data in order to build up potential audiences for political messages.

    Are there questions to be asked about the security of our data on social-media sites? Of course. But the idea that CA was doing something uniquely sinister, that its digital marketing was somehow more evil and dastardly than other companies’ digital marketing, just doesn’t stack up. Neither does the idea that it deployed its sinister methods to swing Brits towards Brexit.

    It is difficult to overstate how central the puffed-up, fact-lite Cambridge Analytica story was to the Brexit-bashing worldview of certain newspapers and campaigners. The Guardian even has a section on its website called ‘The Cambridge Analytica Files’, listing all the pieces it published on this apparently malevolent, Brexit-orchestrating organisation. CA whistleblowers were fawned over by liberal campaigners and the Twitterati.

    The Observer, one of the most enthusiastic promoters of the borderline conspiracy theory that Brexit is the handiwork of nefarious data-mining companies and shady Russian elements, published pieces claiming that a ‘shadowy global operation’ involving CA and others ‘influenced the result of the EU referendum’. Oh really?

    There always was a whiff of desperation to the Cambridge Analytica obsession. For some bruised, dazed liberals, horrified by Brexit, the tall tale about CA’s Machiavellian antics became the go-to explanation for why Remain lost the referendum. It couldn’t possibly be that millions of rational Brits, more than capable of thinking for ourselves, decided that it was time to leave the EU. No, something darker must have taken place. We must have been brainwashed. We must have been ‘got at’. Our data and our minds must have been mined by massive companies and possibly even Russian bots, telling us ‘VOTE LEAVE’.

    It was a deeply patronising view, depicting the electorate as putty-minded fools and calling into question the legitimacy of the largest act of free and fair democracy in the history of this country. That was always the twisted irony of the CA obsession: the anti-Brexit lobby told us that CA was harming democracy, but in truth it was their own ridiculing of the British electorate and efforts to criminalise the vote for Brexit that threatened to damage democracy in this country.

    ************************************************************

    BTL:

    Paul Sutton • 5 hours ago • edited
    Far be it for me to provide anecdotal evidence that contradicts this. But my “lived experience” will be heard, whatever you Gammons do to shout me down. I WILL NOT BE SILENCED.

    In June 2016, I’d just undergone agonising “gender realignment”. Due to wide-spread prejudice, this was done in a leading Cairo clinic (and kebab shop): El Chopoffthemeatandtwoveg.

    Back in Blighty, I was frail and, on June 23rd, faced an uphill walk to the polling booth, jeered by low-quality voters.

    Then, out of nowhere, emerged a huge Russian sled, steered by stern Cossacks, with terrifying facial warts and nasal hair down to their knees.

    They plied me with vodka, bread, salt, herrings – even caviar. I was soon swooning, but got dropped off, at Seacourt Hall polling station, with my instructions:

    VOTE LEAVE.

    I wonder how many others experienced the same?

    Jingleballix • 6 hours ago
    Yep. Trash the result of the referendum – delegitimise it, and then have to hold a second vote (which would have been fixed).

    A few questions emerge.

    Will Carole Cadwalladr return the Orwell Prize? What of all the money, and opportunities to earn money she has gained by publishing this complete lie – if it can be proved that she knew it was all codswallop, it could be construed as ‘obtaining property by deception’, a criminal offence. She libelled Arron Banks, and is up in court later this month – oooh, I wonder if she’ll settle?

    What of Chris Wyllie? The pawn in this subterfuge – but also a massive shyster.

    Then there’s Damian Collins – Chair of the DCMS Committee that looked into ‘fake news’. Who decided that a parliamentary committee was needed? Who gave it its terms of reference? Why was its evidence not delivered on oath?

    Collins found Cummings in ‘contempt of parliament’ for not appearing before him…….however, in truth, Cummings offered to go and give evidence under oath – Collins declined and sanctioned him anyway……..not realising that Cummings would become so influential. Priceless! The ambitions of that slime ball Collins took a bit of a tumble.

    1. The sore losers find it so hard to accept that actually people did want to leave regardless of anything that was said to them. Not O’Barmy telling us we’d be at the back of the queue (“line” in Americanese), not the dire predictions of project fear, not the potential loss of millions of jobs as per Millipede, nor the draconian budget of Osborne. Not even the death of the First Born and the visitation of a Plague of Frogs (which they probably held in reserve) would have deterred us. My only fear was that they would have rigged the ballot and had stacks of ballot boxes filled with “Remain” votes waiting in the wings to be produced. Thankfully, they were so deluded and sure of themselves, not to mention out of touch with the general population, they missed the opportunity. If we were forced into a second ballot they would not make the same mistake again!

      1. My greatest annoyance was when the remain people made comments like: “but only X% voted to leave, far fewer than didn’t vote and voted remain”

        The reality is that, as in every election, those who don’t bother to vote are saying that they will accept the result, whichever way it goes and on that basis there was a huge majority who were happy to leave.

        1. Silence (ie not bothering to vote against) implies assent. Given that they extended the registration date for the lazy snowflakes to register and they still lost, I think they should go boil their heads.

        2. Yes – the Left like to conflate ‘didn’t vote’ with ‘voted as I want them to’.

          To me the concept of remaining chained to the Eu was a preposterous farce. I’m amazed that we won, but even I didn’t expect the horrific assault on liberty that would be begun – and continues! against this most fundamental of democratic decisions just because the hard Left hate the answer.

    1. Individuals felt their lack of social media expertise hindered their
      ability to challenge misconceptions regarding their hobby on social
      media platforms.

      Something that becomes more and more important as single issue pressure groups seek to undermine so many activities in the UK. Particularly in the way that the SIPGs demonise participants in any activity that they disapprove of.

      1. I agree. We need to be as adept at being anti-woke as the woke are at being woke, if you see what I mean! There were professionally produced posters on the walls in town today proclaiming “Donate!” and a crowd-funding address for some autistic person whose assistance dog got kicked by a horse and needs treatment. Full colour A1 with pictures. My first thought was, “who paid for these posters? Whoever it was probably spent enough to cover the life-saving treatment”. I’m a cynic, me.

          1. I don’t know. There were no details, only pathetic pictures to provoke a knee-jerk reaction. You could, however, be right.

      2. “…as single issue pressure groups …”
        Why Nigel’s UKIP & Brexit Party failed to make any headway.

          1. Good campaigner Nigel. Useless party leader. He prefers the media attention to rolling up his sleeves and developing his parties.
            Only the Americans believe otherwise.

        2. Once the objective is secured they tend to move on. They also tend to branch out.
          For example:

          Hunting with hounds to hunting for game management/food, to hunting to cull, to every form of hunting generally.

          The “costed” UKIP manifesto itself was excellent, but I doubt many people actually bothered to read it.

          1. I doubt many people got the opportunity to read it, sos. It was hardly splashed all over the MSM – unlike unfounded accusations of racism and bigotry.

          3. It’s very hard to overcome propaganda from the MSM, particularly when it’s relentless and people are unthinking.

          5. Winston McKenzie at Croydon through to Neil Hamilton at Newport last year.
            The media merely reported on UKIP self-destructing.

          8. Some of those “bullets” had been Conservatives when the alleged incidents took place. Strangely, these incidents provoked no reaction then. It was only when they came to UKIP that it became of interest.

          9. Nigel and Carswell were Conservatives. Bolton was a Lib Dem Claire Fox was a communist.
            Kippers welcomed them all. Voted for and elected them all.

            ETA: Up here in last year’s Euro elections,I voted TR rather than top of Brexit Party’s list of candidates.

          10. Well who the heck in their right mind would have put up Neil Hamilton (comes with fragrant wife Christine, a bit like Blaiir) for any seat, anywhere?

          11. UKIP’s candidate to run against Burnham for Manchester’s mayor managed to alienate 95% of voters before polling day.
            AS always, Kipper blame the media.

          12. UKIP’s candidate to run against Burnham for Manchester mayor election? Seriously C?
            EDIT: Typo, wot else this time of day 🙂

          13. Which UKIP manifesto did Nigel leaf through, declare it ‘a load of rubbish’ and bin it.
            I’d stop but Breitbart’s “Scotland bans ale..” thread is livening up. Brits v Americans.

          16. I like most Belgian beers, but they are too strong and gassy for a “session”. I seldom have more than a litre and even then I feel bloated.

            One of the very few things I miss from the UK is “real” ales

          21. As an occasional poster I’ll take your word for that Ob.
            Grizzly does seem to believe he is a modern day Oracle 🙂

          22. That was the case 20 years ago. There’s a whole new breed of Brewers producing some stunning beers. The old Coors, Schlitz and Bud genre are passé. For example, San Diego alone has about 143 breweries and the variety and quality of their beers are excellent. I just wish France would catch up.

          23. Agree re France.

            I’m never going to be persuaded that fizzy beers are great. I can’t get the gas clear quickly enough and end up bloated.

            It’s many years since I was in the States, but even then some of the micro breweries were producing pleasant tipples, but not ales.

          25. I’ve heard excellent reports from others around here too.

            It’s one of my favourite bastides and we often take visitors that way.

          27. Odd how you keep going back to a manifesto he didn’t like, yet ignore the content. Is it painful for you to look at?

            Why bother winding up Americans? Just tell them that ‘battle’ has two T’s in it, not two D’s and a y.

          28. “Why bother winding up Americans?”
            On a quiet day it’s a break from winding up Kippers 🙂

          29. The 2010 UKIP manifesto included the following items on Defence:

            * Continue Trident in the short term, then replace it with four British-built submarines using American-made missiles to preserve an independent nuclear deterrent.

            * Increase defence spending by 40 per cent/1 per cent of GDP.

            * Expand the army by 25 per cent to 125,000 personnel, and double the size of the Territorial Army.

            * Commission three new aircraft carriers and 70 other vessels to restore the Royal Navy to its 2001 strength.

            * Introduce better pay, conditions and medical care for forces personnel and their families.

            * Increase defence commissioning by an extra £4 billion a year.

            I thought that this was a very attractive set of requirments so was very disappointed that, by the time of the general election, this had become:

            Defence
            * End continuous at sea nuclear deterrent, enabling a cut in the number of submarines

            * Ban arms exports to countries flagged up by the FCO’s human rights report

            * Help service personnel and veterans with mental health problems

            * Integrate defence and security spending

            Apart from the strange contradiction over the nuclear deterrent, this hardly suggest that UKIP is the party of Defence

    1. “Because the bloke who wrote that knows that I’m a ‘yes-man’ of the highest quality”.

    2. I have always thought references are a waste of space. No one is going to offer one that says, “Do not employ this useless idiot”.

      A phone call to the previous employer could reveal a great deal in a very short time!

      1. I have always thought that a glowing reference means the firm (or in my case educational establishment) wants to get rid of the time-server.

        1. Best one I ever saw read, simply: “X has always completed her work to her entire satisfaction.” I didn’t employ her!

          1. That was in a Richard Gordon “Doctor” book. I read it too. Perhaps the writer of the reference had read that as well.

      4. About two years ago, a chap I had employed was so slow in picking up the job that I extended his probation period twice but in the end didnt sign it off and so his employment was terminated. A grievance against me followed which went to tribunal but I had put so much supporting evidence in my management response portfolio it was found there was no case to answer.
        Six months later he requested a reference from me for an application to a broadly similar job in which I stated that I would not employ him again in a similar position but would consider him for a more junior post. Another complaint ensued but what else could I say? If I had endorsed his application, there would have been a query as to why I had found him unsuitable for the job from which I had let him go.

        2. Why did he think that getting a reference from you was a good idea in the first place? What an eejit.

        4. Gosh, things must have changed. Some years ago I was asked for reference for my then secretary. who wanted to work closer to home, having had a baby.

          I was told by my employer that the HR people has to write it, and that it simply stated that she had worked in the firm. It was up to the head of department )for whom she didn’t work) to provide anything extra. I was so disgusted at that, that I rang her prospective employer and told them what an excellent, hard-working and kind asset she would be to anyone who employed her. I was sick at my own employer’s blanked stance on such references.

      5. A good reference a lazy man was given was as follows: You will be very lucky if you get this man to work for you.

      6. As happened when i was a stand in for a B&B in Banbury. The lady in question had all sort of needs to get the staff out and about buying her Sherry and Cigarettes daily. I checked with the last place she stayed in and they told me all. She could not pay her Bill and so it was decided by the actual owners to keep her trolley bag of her things and her dog meds (she didn’t have a dog) …which then rotted. Her Priest then asked for her stuff back. I had no answer.

      7. “You will be lucky to get this man to work for you”. “Waste no time in hiring this man”.

      8. These days that gets you into trouble.

        I once was asked if I had any weaknesses. I said yes, I speak truth to power. I am honest and will tell you you’re wrong when you are and why.

        They didn’t hire me. I’ve never told the truth since.

        When I started my own company I made honesty a cornerstone. If something goes wrong, it’s my fault.

    1. REPOST.

      Looking at America today,they might have asked themselves “Why did we bother?”

      1. Eh?

        They bothered precisely so the Lefties trying ot hard to destroy their nation are squashed underfoot.

      1. But if Biden pulls out and Harris becomes POTUS, Pelosi will be VP. Then if anything happens to Harris….

        1. I wonder whether – if Biden wins – it will be the shortest presidency ever. If he wants to beat that record he will have to serve for less that 31 days. The current record holder is:

          William Henry Harrison who died 31 days into his term.

          His presidency was from 4th March 1841- 4th April 1841.

    2. Dear lord alive. She is absolutely fanatic to get her own way, isn’t she?

      Why can she not accept htat her politics has been rejected and the better man won? Why the hell can Lefties not grow up?

      1. Remainers are the same. They just cannot accept that they lost and their argument was rejected.

      1. Given the known side effects of some of the stuff DT is allegedly taking I would not bet the farm.

  59. That’s me for another dreary day The good news is that my handyman was able to chop all the logs I had barrowed yesterday – and tomorrow I’ll stack them. A very rewarding activity.

    The poor folk in the Cote d’Azur have had a promise from Toy Boy that he’ll visit again in a year to see all the work that has been done., From my experience (a) very little will have been done except to roads, bridges,water and power – and public buildings and (b) he prolly won’t visit…

    A demain.

    1. It’s not all my fault !

      Thanks Rik. Allow me to return the favour sometime. Don’t make me make you ! 🙂

    1. You and tens of thousands of others down there could turn up in Folkestone and protest.
      Other than that, not much else I can say TB.

        1. It looks like the end to me Phizzee. I think my post of April 1 will prove to be accurate!

          http://disq.us/p/28bj8sc

          Mark my words this is the Apocalypse. Not because of this minor ailment but because the response to it will destroy the foundations of the modern world.

        4. It looks like the end to me Phizzee. I think my post of April 1 will prove to be accurate!

          http://disq.us/p/28bj8sc

          Mark my words this is the Apocalypse. Not because of this minor ailment but because the response to it will destroy the foundations of the modern world.

          5. It is not the end. They can try and control all they like and they will fail. Just like each time they have tried it. Many may die. They will not succeed.. Human nature will prevail.

  63. You left something out, Prof. Herd immunity = EUGENICS!

    The Government’s bid to smear critics as in favour of ‘letting the virus rip’ is disgusting

    Politicians have a responsibility to ensure all expert voices can be heard without fear

    PROFESSOR KAROL SIKORA

    I’ve been surprised by many things over the last six months, but nothing has shocked me more than the conduct and language of the many different players in the Coronavirus debate.

    Words have been twisted, personal abuse flung around, and motives questioned. I understand that there is always going to be an element of rough and tumble when discussing something that affects literally every person in the country, but far too many times the line has been crossed. Science and medicine are rife with low-level squabbling, but nothing like when interacting with politics.

    Social media is not for the faint-hearted, I hadn’t appreciated quite how poisonous people can be behind the relative obscurity of a computer screen.

    These aren’t anonymous trolls who post such unacceptable vitriol. It’s also scientists and academics, many of whom I respected. Not once have I engaged in personal abuse, yet on a daily basis fellow professors will openly post vile slander.

    Why do they do it? They drag another scientist’s name through the mud, get a few likes on Twitter and is that an afternoon well spent? Often followed by tweets calling for more kindness and empathy. Clearly, the irony is not lost on them.

    We’re all human, sadly it has put people off speaking out. Mob mentality wins out and opposing voices are silenced. That isn’t how scientific debate should be conducted, and I suspect those encouraging the abuse know exactly what they are doing. They aren’t going to stop, but I refuse to get dragged into the mud.

    None of this is helped by the new Government messaging. It was a couple of weeks ago when dozens of friends and colleagues sent the PM and his team an open letter calling for a strategy rethink. There has been no response on the substance of the letter, but the go-to line is now to accuse those questioning ludicrous Government policies of wanting to ‘let the virus rip’ and therefore signing the death warrant of thousands of people.

    Quite frankly it’s a disgraceful smear and needs to stop now. Throughout the last six months I have been so cautious with how I address what Government are doing. I recognise it’s an impossible job and there are only difficult choices to be made. But if this is the language they want to use when describing mild critics of their policies, why should we afford them the benefit of the doubt anymore?

    Regardless of how they try to paint us out we are not a bunch of lunatics or ‘COVID-deniers’. Just this week thousands of health professionals across the world have signed the ‘Great Barrington Declaration’. It’s essentially a wider version of our letter to Government, calling for focused protection for the vulnerable and allowing the rest of society and economy to keep functioning as normal.

    It isn’t a perfect solution and there are issues with it, but there are no easy answers to any of this unfortunately.

    Shouldn’t Government at least consider an alternative strategy? Rather than insinuating dozens of world-class experts are happy to see thousands die. They should listen to what we are saying.

    I was pleased to see the Conservative MP Mark Harper criticise the Government for this unacceptable behaviour in the Commons and the Minister in the room nodded along rather sheepishly. It’s been a policy of mine not to call out individual people out as I don’t think it adds much to the debate, but from now on if Government ministers continue to imply that friends and colleagues of mine are willing to let thousands die, I will respond and make it clear how unacceptable that is.

    I don’t expect the tone of the debate to improve but politicians on the public payroll have a responsibility to ensure all voices can be heard without fear of reprisals.

    Do we really live in a country where dissenting voices are silenced because they speak out against the prevailing wind? It’s true that scientists and academics in my camp are outnumbered, we don’t pretend otherwise, but we’re in a real mess now.

    The science behind lockdown is owned by all of us as we are all affected. You don’t have to be an epidemiologist to understand it, and it’s not them that have to face the growing tragedy for cancer and heart disease patients this year. If Government tries to reach out, rather than lash out we may be able to strike a better balance as we move into the winter months.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2020/10/08/governments-bid-smear-critics-favour-letting-virus-rip-disgusting/

    1. Echoes of the Brexit Wars. What should be a purely scientific debate about the best way to tackle the virus has become political. It was ever thus, when politicians use dubious, biased scientists to give credibility to their political goals.

      I do think that this virus has raised some interesting questions:

      – Can computer models ever really predict the outcome of real-world events?
      – Can the intervention of governments really affect the course of natural events like the spread of a virus (or indeed, the changing climate)?
      – Are said government interventions worthwhile, when one conducts a cost/benefit analysis? E.g. if we push taxes through the roof, drive the poorest into fuel poverty and suffer rolling blackouts, will this be worth it to ‘fight climate change?’

      I don’t expect any answers from our blinkered government, which only wants to hear opinions which support their pre-conceived agenda.

      1. Can computer models ever really predict the outcome of real-world events?

        No, but to say so is to invite ridicule and contempt, usually along the lines of “Have you any expertise in the field? No, thought not.”
        The idea that all the forces at work on any particular phenomenon, especially a global one, can be identified and quantified in a computer program has always struck me as an exercise in conceit.

        1. Can computer models ever really predict the outcome of real-world events?

          Only by artificially limiting them. The possible variables in any human scenario are too great to be modelled!

        2. Can computer models ever really predict the outcome of real-world events?

          Only by artificially limiting them. The possible variables in any human scenario are too great to be modelled!

        3. My computer predicts that, tomorrow, the sun will rise in the East and set in the West. I am not sure about that immense asteroid hurtling down on us from Outer Space, though – it could really screw up the prediction.

        4. My computer predicts that, tomorrow, the sun will rise in the East and set in the West. I am not sure about that immense asteroid hurtling down on us from Outer Space, though – it could really screw up the prediction.

        5. Man proud man
          Dressed in a little brief authority
          Most ignorant of what he’s most assured
          His glassy image like an angry ape
          Plays such fantastic tricks before high heaven
          As makes the angels weep.

          And there are people around in the world of education who think that Shakespeare’s works should not be studied!

        6. Quite. How accurate were the Treasury’s models on the impact of a Brexit vote? Wrong by about £100bn I believe. But as with Covid, the intention was not to give an accurate prediction but to frighten people into doing what the government wanted.

          1. Weather forecasts for the next day are generally very good. For five days hence they are quite good. For 10 days, sometimes OK. Beyond that…

          2. Precisely. This is how the government advisors such as Ferguson are happy to predict a million dead by Christmas.

            We have already witnessed the ludicrously overstated predictions of death and destruction in the experience of Swine Flu, Mad Cow Disease and SARS. Billions of pounds wasted on taking advice from some drug merchants posing as scientists and professors.

            We need to remember the disaster of Thalidomide before accepting the prescriptions of the same people.

      2. This whole pandemic is a globalist scam. The release of the laboratory formulated virus is biological terrorism and whilst highly infectious does not bear comparison with the Spanish Flu.

        The reactions of the politicians demonstrate their connivance with the globalist mafia. We are in a sorry state with Johnson, Hancock and Whitty calling the shots. These men are simply minnows merely taking instruction and punishing us.

        Needless to say other EU politicians such as Merkel, Ursula von der Leyen, Macron and the rest are all singing from the same diabolical song sheet.

  64. Thirteen charged as FBI thwart militia plot to kidnap governor of Michigan. 8 October 2020.

    Thirteen people have been arrested on charges of plotting to kidnap the Democrat governor of Michigan, Gretchen Whitmer, and violently overthrow the state government.

    The FBI announced on Thursday that they had an informant inside the gang, who allegedly approached a Michigan militia for support in their scheme.

    As certainly as the sun rises we will discover that the plans and the equipment all came from the FBI informant! It is their invariable modus operandi; find some dummies and get them to do something stupid and then arrest them.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/10/08/six-charged-fbi-thwart-militia-plot-kidnap-governor-michigan/

    1. But doesn’t that mean that the thirteen people who went along with such plans were really stupid ?
      I mean how could anyone sane try such a thing ?

      1. They are really stupid. After 9/11 the FBI caught a series of supposed Islamic terrorists. About one every three months. They were all mentally subnormal!

  65. It’s weird how the MSM hasn’t really been interviewing people that have tested positive for the virus for some reason

    1. As weird as the media not reporting from the UK regions where common sense still seems to prevail.
      .

  66. This man, Ismail Abedi, is not under arrest. He is free to do as he pleases. That is where we are today in this country in respect of security and the safety of our children and ourselves. What is the point of having MI6, MI5 and Special Branch?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54467114

    2. MI6 is there to make sure who the foreign threats are.

      MI5 is there to make sure who the local threats are.

      Both organisations work under the direction of no one that represents our Sovereign.

    3. Regrettably a lot of people believe that we have several James Bond characters and fabulous national resources to support our agents and deal with terrorists both abroad and at home.

      Unfortunately both MI5 and MI6 were bought out years ago by the globalist mafia. These people are not our friends.

  67. This man, Ismail Abedi, is not under arrest. He is free to do as he pleases. That is where we are today in this country in respect of security and the safety of our children and ourselves. What is the point of having MI6, MI5 and Special Branch?
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-54467114

  69. Evening, all. The government isn’t listening – not to the screams from lockdown, nor the common sense on the green lunacy, nor on the need for a clean break from the EU, nor on the deficit, debt and other economic realities, not to mention the BLM and islamic threats. I can’t remember a more incompetent, so-called “Conservative” government.

    1. The massive waste on green, the huge banner welcoming illegal immigrants, the complete refusal to understand the simplest of economic policies – that the only way to recover the economy is to cut taxes… I despair. It’s potty.

    2. Worse still, Conwy – there is NO ONE to whom one can turn for support. 650 puppets in the Talking Shop.

      1. Indeed. Was having a (socially distanced) chat to an aged chum – who’s over 90 – in the street when I went to pay my VED (aka road tax) this morning. We came to the same conclusions; Boris is a waste of space and we don’t know how we’re going to put it right.

        1. Trouble is, we are not a nation that takes to the streets – unlike yer French, who will do it at the drop of a chapeau.

          1. In 1688 we had the “Glorious” ie bloodless Revolution. In 1848, the Year of Revolutions throughout Europe, there wasn’t a ripple. The French and Russian Revolutions passed us by. We are phlegmatic and stoic – but by golly (there goes my front door!) when we’re really riled, we don’t give up.

          5. They must have done; they didn’t have any children and Mary’s sister, Anne, had to take over 🙂

          10. The Glorious Revolution wasn’t bloodless. James II suffered from a nosebleed and couldn’t lead his troops. And then he ran away.

          11. I thought he marched his troops to the top of the hill then marched them down again (when he was Duke of York).

          12. He was also said to have had ten-thousand men, which should make him an icon for the LBGTQWERTY Brigade.

          20. They have rather had their wings clipped by Covid. But they’ll be back when it all calms down.

  70. Good night all.

    Osso bucco for supper…

    https://www.bbcgoodfood.com/recipes/ossobucco

    What? Chop carrot & a single stalk of celery? Stuff that for a lark, I used a pack of soffritto. Crusty bread to mop up the sauce & used up the bread with some Gorgonzola. All washed down with a Languedoc Rosé.

    Chocolate to finish.

    1. Bon appétit, Peddy.

      Mince here tonight – fried in lard and stewed in the remnants of yesterday’s broth, served with tatties and neeps al diente, generously seasoned with salt and pepper, and accompanied by a couple of cans of Younger’s Heavy with its strong malty flavour and just a subtle hint of purple thistles and white heather.

      And to follow, Clootie Dumpling, with lumpy custard just thick enough to stand a spoon in.

      Later, I shall retire to bed and finish reading the latest Albanian thriller from Ismail Kadare. Unfortunately I had to be content with the Estonian translation – by Leksik Pääsuke – since Amazon had sold out of the book in its original Shqip, but hey-ho …… needs must.

        1. Kind of you to compliment me on my erudition, Cor.

          It has been said of me that I’m the e-rudest poster on the forum. Indeed one dear lady – who I shall not mention by name – was so impressed, she awarded me the post-nominal letters V.O.B.
          ;¬)

          1. Forget it Duncan, you see through the hypocrisy and self indulgent postings of the arrogant self opinonated show/offs. The very same people that admittedly annoy me intensely. Gentle soul
            that I am.

      3. I have read most of the Wallander stories in the original Swedish, but a couple, e.g. Innan Frosten (Before the frost) I have also in German, which gives them quite a different slant.

    2. Bon appétit, Peddy.

      Mince here tonight – fried in lard and stewed in the remnants of yesterday’s broth, served with tatties and neeps al diente, generously seasoned with salt and pepper, and accompanied by a couple of cans of Younger’s Heavy with its strong malty flavour and just a subtle hint of purple thistles and white heather.

      And to follow, Clootie Dumpling, with lumpy custard just thick enough to stand a spoon in.

      Later, I shall retire to bed and finish reading the latest Albanian thriller from Ismail Kadare. Unfortunately I had to be content with the Estonian translation – by Leksik Pääsuke – since Amazon had sold out of the book in its original Shqip, but hey-ho …… needs must.

        1. No, but I couldn’t stop looking at them! (Am I allowed to say things like that here?)😉

    1. This one is on my regular playlist, as well as the version with Scott Hamilton and the piano introduction. Joan Chamorro has an incredible ear for talented young musicians.

    1. Goodnight J

      Did I tell you , the other night as the dogs were having their late night pee in the garden , a really lovely surprise, nice fat hedgehog had been scurrying around. I was so pleased !

      1. We are missing ours this year. In previous years they would scud at high speed across our lawn. This year there are no signs of hedgehogs in our garden.

  74. Off Topic

    CheshireLad, we know you’re out there, please join us.

    If R.Nosgrove can pluck up the courage to jump in, so can you, you would be most welcome.

          2. Scary stuff there. I most definitely feel as if I’ve fallen down a rabbit hole whenever I pay a visit. Rough house? Mad house more like…. but I like to get a bit of balance in my life!

          8. Doomier and gloomier without the banter one gets here. After a while on Breitbart I am thinking ‘I’ve just got to get out of here’ – Conwom seems to be going the same way. Then, I go to the window and look out and it looks and feels as it has done for the last 40 years, ever since we moved in. Nothing has changed. And only 25 years before that, people in our village were still getting their water from the village pump – a 10 minute walk from our home. There is still no gas in the village. Then I read sites like Breitbart and Conwom and feel as though I am going slightly mad. Reality is Nttlers and A Look From The Window. Breitbart is a possible future reality…. oh, back to the window, quickly…..!

          9. I’m with you there, pm. I’m finding ConWom quite “samey” and lacking direction. Perhaps I’ll go and look at the night sky….

          10. I would advise against it, Sue. There’s precious little comfort in the night sky.

            “The bay-trees in our country are all withered,
            And meteors fright the fixed stars of heaven.
            The pale-faced moon looks bloody on the earth,
            And lean-looked prophets whisper fearful change.
            Rich men look sad, and ruffians dance and leap;
            The one in fear to lose what they enjoy,
            The other to enjoy by rage and war.
            These signs forerun the death or fall of kings.”
            — Richard II, (Act 2, Scene 4)
            :¬(

          13. I would advise against it, Sue. There’s precious little comfort in the night sky.

            “The bay-trees in our country are all withered,
            And meteors fright the fixed stars of heaven.
            The pale-faced moon looks bloody on the earth,
            And lean-looked prophets whisper fearful change.
            Rich men look sad, and ruffians dance and leap;
            The one in fear to lose what they enjoy,
            The other to enjoy by rage and war.
            These signs forerun the death or fall of kings.”
            — Richard II, (Act 2, Scene 4)
            :¬(

          14. We as individuals have no control over these events. Some of our more political friends feel they have made a difference and in some cases that is true. I would suggest you do what makes you happiest. And avoid the Press.

          15. You would have a field day over there.
            Few remaining Nigel fans and “Nigel for PM” Americans, easy targets
            Doesn’t do my up-vote to comments ratio any good admittedly.

          16. Thanks. I don’t think i will bother.

            No point trying to speak to people who are not in control of their emotions.

          19. Best not bait the parrot. Seems she has many American Trump voting fans.
            As I learnt to my cost. If I was bothered about down-votes that is 🙂

          21. “Scotland bans alcoholic beer in pubs.”
            The Americans are having a go at us. As always 🙂

        1. I’ll do it. Take one for the team. Then kill the buggers. I have a very good line in boring them to death about their procedures. I learned that today from Rik !

          1. They suggested the lunch went well, I’ve already pondered why…

            I hope you haven’t fallen out.

          4. No. In fact new friends.

            Obviously if you and Mrs Sos it would have changed the dynamic …. Who knows what would have happened.

            Sorry you couldn’t make it.

    1. Is that Whitty? The cartoon makes him look very much better looking than he actually is.

  77. ”Your children’s children will live under global government because you are so gullible. No, you won’t accept global government outright; but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of global government until you finally wake up and find that you already have global government.

    We won’t have to fight you; we’ll weaken your economy until you fall like overripe fruit into our hands”.

    (Thanks Mr Khrushchev)

  78. I watched Jamie Oliver earlier on TV mouthing off about this, that and the other. He was described as a chef. God help us. One of the worst premises I have ever surveyed was Jamie’s Italian in Chelmsford after the chain went tits up. I had to lay out a new kitchen for a client whilst utilising a service spine and existing tapped off gas and water lines.

    The kitchen floor was swimming in oil where fat fryers had been clumsily removed. There was a semi literate message on printed A4 paper urging staff to test the temperature of their burgers before serving as they had been serving undercooked burgers.

    The ambience of the place was depressing, supposed shabby chic with torn wallpapers on the walls and hard wooden seats and tables.

    Quite how this Oliver character has managed to find fame and make money when he has no qualities whatsoever remains a mystery to me. After all his dad provided much better food at The Cricketers in Clavering, the family pub.

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