1,017 thoughts on “Tuesday 29 October: Another Brexit delay will further undermine voters’ faith in democracy”

  2. I went to see a Muslim tribute band last night. They were called “Bomb Jovi”. They were excellent.

    Their last song “Living on a Prayer Mat” almost brought the house down.

    Then this Muslim guy started bragging about how he had the entire Koran on DVD.

    I was interested so I asked him, “Can you burn me a copy?”

    That was when the trouble started!

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7d749740f8be4e1502a9a75fb7d4658ee7553c7fa6ad111bc83000b365ee1a03.png

    2. But he will probably get a seat in the Lords to make up for his loss of earnings as an MP

  8. Keith Vaz faces parliamentary ban over drugs for sex workers scandal. 28 October 2019.

    The MP for Leicester East will face an automatic recall petition after the standards committee found he “caused significant damage to the reputation and integrity of the House of Commons”.

    Morning everyone. I have no time for Vaz at all. I can remember way back when he and his wife were fiddling MP’s expenses to get the taxpayer to buy them a string of new homes. His penchant for drugs and young boys while being largely suppressed, is still well documented for those versed in the ways of the MSM. All this being said he cannot be bringing the House of Commons into disrepute since this would be like hearing that the Third Reich has been maligned or the Soviet Politburo accused of malfeasance. Parliament, both Lords and Commons, is a collection of self-serving placemen devoid of one scintilla of Patriotism or Honesty or Integrity. One way or another, it and they, are finished. Its possible replacements are waiting in the wings!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/28/keith-vaz-faces-parliamentary-ban-over-drugs-for-sex-workers-scandal

    1. The MP for Leicester East will face an automatic recall petition
      after the standards committee found he “caused significant damage to the
      reputation and integrity of the House of Commons”.

      What integrity of the House of Commons and the reputation of the slime balls is beyond saving

      His actions are not really noticeable, when compared to those of

      LettWind
      Berk O
      Corbyn
      etc

      Which is the more serious offence to fcuk a couple of willing lads, or fcuk up 2000 years of democracy

      Of cause Vaz O’loine must go, but a whole raft of others must as well

      1. He’ll be safe.
        He’s got a healthy tan and is a Labour MP.
        Mind you, his Roman Catholicism might count against him.

  9. Morning

    SIR – Brexit was always perfectly simple. Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty gave the parties two years to negotiate in good faith. Either that, or the leaving country just left.

    Article 50 should have been triggered straight after the referendum. Businesses are given little time to comply with new regulations and absolutely no time to comply with Budget changes, so two years would have been plenty for them to adjust to Brexit, had not most of that time been wasted lobbying to undo the result.

    The problem has always been that the Establishment is determined either to stop Brexit or to make it so bad that we beg later to rejoin the EU. MPs voted honourably to implement the decision to leave, but the Establishment’s policy of delaying and whipping up fear has emboldened the Remainer MPs, who either believe they are acting in the best interests of the country or are simply playing politics.

    I suspect that they are grinding the public down to the extent that a vast number of people will no longer vote because they think that it does not count. Many already believed this, but hoped otherwise when they participated in the referendum. I expect that the Conservatives and the Brexit Party will fight against each other and deliver a Peterborough-style result in a general election, so now I doubt that Brexit will ever happen.

    Unlike our former colonies and protectorates, we shall never get our independence.

    Andrew Rixon
    Hertford

    1. SIR – Remainers have got their wish – a further delay to Brexit. But what will they do now?

      The extra time should allow them to agree the revised deal that the Government has negotiated in a timely fashion, but I suspect their aim will be to stall further the process with amendments that could only be described as deal-wreckers.

      Then, in the new year, they will resume the scaremongering about no deal and say the only solution is another delay. Bit by bit, they are achieving their aim of keeping us in the EU against the wishes of the majority.

      Roger Gentry
      Sutton-at-Hone, Kent

      SIR – I wrote recently to my MP to argue that students should have to vote in their own home towns and not in the places where they are studying. Their views are often the opposite of those of the permanent residents.

      My MP said this was not a problem. Now we hear that the Liberal Democrats want an election on December 9 rather than Boris Johnson’s preferred date of December 12, allowing students to vote before they return to their homes for Christmas.

      They are assuming that students will be mostly Remain supporters and could give them a foothold in areas where they would never normally get a look-in. I rest my case.

      Frances Lake
      Hythe, Kent

      1. Dear Frances Lake,

        Please move your case. You have rested it on my foot and it is giving my bunions gyp!

        Yours sincerely,

        Elsie Bloodaxe (Widow of this Parish).

    2. I agree with most of this letter, but “MPs voted honourably to implement the decision to leave” is surely a misprint – those lying hypocrites must be some of the least honourable people in Britain!

      1. Well, the two years from notification to departure per Article 50 is not time for negotiation. It is time for preparation. Negotiation is referred to elsewhere, with the onus on the EU, and negotiation is not about leaving but about what happens afterwards.
        Nor should it be overlooked that Article 50 is by way of being a late addendum, hastily scribbled in without any real thought.

  10. The maddening tactics of the ‘People’s Vote’ campaign may soon be at an end
    CHARLES MOORE – 29 OCTOBER 2019 • 6:00AM

    The PVers have fallen out at the final hurdle

    The idea of a “People’s Vote” (PV) has always caused me agonies. On the one hand, it is undoubtedly the most tricksy and divisive of all the ruses invented to frustrate the Leave vote of 2016; and therefore dangerous. On the other, it is also so transparently dishonest and politically impossible to achieve that I have seen it as a welcome cul-de-sac down which to divert Remainer energies.

    PV is based on a version of the Marxist idea of “false consciousness”: the poor, stupid workers did not mean to vote the way they did, but were fed lies by capitalists/the Right-wing media. Rightly guided by Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson, Alastair Campbell and so on, they would vote the “right” way if given a second chance.

    Now that it really is almost the last chance to stop Brexit, the PVers have fallen out. The Liberal Democrats and SNP are abandoning ship, preferring what they claim is a general election which may mean we do not leave at all. The remaining Remainers are split between those who think the PV campaign should admit that it is a Remain front organisation and those – including the gentlemen named above – who are inveterately committed to a politics which does not mean what it says.

    That sort of politics drove many to vote Leave. “People’s Vote”, like “People’s Democracy” in the Communist era, means people doing what they are told.

    Press freedom is only ever one generation away from extinction

    Forty years ago this month, I began work at The Daily Telegraph, then in Fleet Street. The paper was printed at the back of the building. There were more than 400 printers, working on noisy Victorian hot-metal machines – self-appointed, all-male, often absentee, often drunk, everything run by the trade union.

    I loved it because I was young, but in fact the place was a mess. The combination of very old technology and massive over-manning meant that although the paper sold a staggering 1.2 million copies a day, it barely broke even.

    This was the early Thatcher era, and union power still held sway. It got so bad that if the print unions disliked something written in a leading article they would sometimes down tools unless it was removed. I remember them one evening crowding into the Editor’s office to do this.

    In the mid-Eighties, everything changed. The unions were smashed. The number of printers fell to about 25. New technology was introduced in a different site. A golden age ensued. We felt free at last.

    During the eighties, new technology sparked a golden age for the print media
    Unfortunately, there are always powerful forces which instinctively dislike freedom. In our own time, they have returned in very different form. In 1979, the struggle was about economic control. Forty years on, it is about thought control.

    The list of subjects on which comment is circumscribed grows ever longer. This is enshrined in press regulation and sometimes even in the criminal law. Everything about race, sexuality, gender, disability, religion, age is minutely scrutinised.

    These are sensitive matters, and the press has often had a bad record for handling them crassly. But two aspects are really alarming. One is the idea of putting group rights ahead of the rights of each citizen. These means that the lobbies of those who shout the loudest can prevail over individuals. The other is the idea that if something offends a group, it must not be allowed. Since the offence is so often defined as being in the eye of the “victim”, this allows almost anything to be classified as offensive, and therefore banned.

    Right now, an attempt is being made to force the media to accept a definition of “Islamophobia”, itself a loaded concept. We could not be a free press or a free country if we could not criticise the doctrines and practice of any great religion or of that religion’s adherents. This is not “phobia”: it is free thought. Yet one can already see the repressive onslaught. Forty years ago, I saw those militant trade union leaders in an editor’s office telling him what his paper should say. How long before it is a group of imams?
    *
    *
    *
    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/29/maddening-tactics-peoples-vote-campaign-may-soon-end/

    1. Clearly they are receiving very significant amounts of funding from somewhere. I would suspect from those with a vested interest in staying in the EU

    2. From the article:

      “the poor, stupid workers did not mean to vote the way they did, but were fed lies by capitalists/the Right-wing media.”

      What did I miss?

      My impression of the referendum was that all the big guns were pointing at the leavers and that it was a foregone conclusion that we’d remain (an outcome, I suspect, many of us leavers would have accepted, having been brought up to respect democracy).

      P.S. Anyone old enough to remember democracy?

      Morning zx.

  11. Morning again

    Asylum discrimination

    SIR – The Home Office official who dismissed an Iranian woman’s application for asylum (Comment, October 26) seems to be wholly unaccountable to public scrutiny.

    Such an official sits in a quasi-judicial position. If an immigration judge had said to an asylum seeker, “You affirmed that Jesus is your saviour but then claimed that he would not be able to save you from the Iranian regime. Your belief in Jesus is half-hearted”, that judge would be suspended and probably likely have to resign.

    Such blatant discrimination cannot be allowed to go unchallenged.

    His Honour Ian Alexander QC
    Fifield, Oxfordshire

  12. Grenfell Tower fire: ‘Systemic failures’ in fire brigade’s response

    Sir Martin’s report praised the courage of firefighters on the night.
    But it found many “institutional” failures that meant the LFB’s planning and preparation for the incident was “gravely inadequate”.

    “Mistakes made in responding to the Lakanal House fire were repeated,” he added – referring to a fire in Camberwell, south London, in 2009, which killed three women and three children.

    This report could not be more critical of the London Fire Brigade.

    Sir Martin also criticised the LFB for its “stay put” strategy, where firefighters and 999 operators told residents to stay in their flats for nearly two hours after the blaze broke out.
    The strategy was rescinded at 02:47 BST, the report said. Sir Martin wrote: “That decision could and should have been made between 01:30 and 01:50 and would be likely to have resulted in fewer fatalities.”
    Firefighters who attended the fire did not have training on how best to combat a cladding fire, the report added.
    Four experienced members of the first crews to have fought the blaze had not received any training on the risks posed by exterior cladding or the techniques to be deployed in fighting fires involving cladding, the report found.
    Sir Martin said the “principal” reason the fire spread so quickly “up, down and around the building was the presence of the aluminium composite material (ACM) rainscreen panels with polyethylene cores, which acted as a source of fuel”.

    The report also said evidence given by the LFB’s commissioner, Dany Cotton, suggested lessons from the fire might be missed.
    Sir Martin wrote: “Quite apart from its remarkable insensitivity to the families of the deceased and to those who escaped from their burning homes with their lives, the Commissioner’s evidence that she would not change anything about the response of the LFB on the night, even with the benefit of hindsight, only serves to demonstrate that the LFB is an institution at risk of not learning the lessons of the Grenfell Tower fire.”

    1. Surely Cotton cannot survive this report? She not only failed to ensure that adequate plans were in place to deal with high-rise fires, she has subsequently refused to accept that the blanket instruction to ‘stay put’ was slavishly followed when it should have been obvious almost from the outset that this was a very grave error. “She would not change anything…” indicates very clearly that she is not up to the job, and this has caused some, or even all, of the deaths. A position of ‘Not me guv’ is totally unacceptable.

      ‘Morning, Bill, and thanks for putting this up.

        1. ‘Morning, Anne. She says she will retire in April next year. A spot of gardening leave would seem to be a possibility?

    2. While the failings of the Fire Brigade need to be addressed I note it is a useful distraction from the dangers posed by the lethal cladding imposed by the EU and Emma Dent Coad

  13. SIR – I would like to respond to the report on homeopathy (“NHS chiefs attempt to blacklist homeopathy amid anti-vax fears”, October 28) and the Society of Homeopaths (SoH).

    Classical homeopaths (practitioners of what we call real homeopathy) distance ourselves totally from people using such “systems” as Cease (Complete Elimination of Autistic Spectrum Expression). This has nothing to do with real homeopathy and we completely dismiss it. Autism cannot be claimed to be “cured” by anyone.

    Classical homeopathy has a long and distinguished history. I agree that we need proper regulation, but the Government has consistently refused and instead suggested self-regulation. Unfortunately, it has not worked and has resulted in bogus homeopaths being accepted and accredited by the SoH.

    Andrew Ward
    Registered classical homeopath
    Bradford-on-Avon, Wiltshire

    1. It has not been blacklisted but the NHS has said that there being no evidence that it works following extensive clinical trials that it will no longer be available on the NHS

  14. SIR – Lt Col Merrill Bate (Letters, October 28) is right about the importance of remembering V-J Day.

    I am a member of Cofepow (Children of Far East Prisoners of War), which sent a petition to the Government asking it to “establish a national day commemorating the significance of August 15 1945”, signed by nearly 18,000 people.

    My father died at the early age of 44 in 1954 as a result of his incarceration. Not marking the day is an insult to the memory of those who fought and died so bravely.

    Peter Pepperrell
    Winslow, Buckinghamshire

    SIR – As the daughter of a Far East PoW who lies buried in Chungkai Cemetery, Thailand, I agree with Catharine Burgess (Letters, October 26) that those who fought there in the Second World War have been forgotten for far too long.

    I am the secretary of the Malayan Volunteers Group and have held annual services in the National Memorial Arboretum to celebrate V-J Day since 2005. In 2020, we are again organising our annual service of thanksgiving in the NMA, which Ms Burgess she is very welcome to attend.

    The group has worked tirelessly for 16 years to raise awareness of the terrible effects the Far East Prisoners of War suffered as a consequence of their captivity. We hope their sacrifice will be remembered, as well as those who lost their lives or became PoWs in Europe and North Africa.

    Rosemary Fell
    Axminster, Devon

      1. It’s also to do with the lack of American presence. Not Hollywood-friendly.

        It’s a long time now since D-Day became the struggle for Omaha Beach and the advance to Germany became The Battle of the Bulge. The Far East is treated similarly.

    2. When growing up. I could hear my-next-door-but-one neighbour screaming at night

      He had been a japanese POW and was reliving it all

  15. SIR – David Leakey, the former Black Rod (“It would be a scandal for Bercow to get a peerage”, Comment, October 27), was my brigade commander in Germany in the mid-Nineties.

    He was an officer of great integrity, professionalism and ability. The only time I saw him lose his cool was when he caught some of my soldiers on a new squash court wearing black‑-soled shoes.

    Mr Leakey’s decency is in stark contrast to the behaviour of John Bercow. I know who I believe: the British Army expects the highest standards of its members. Public disdain for politicians, meanwhile, is fuelled in part by MPs’ failure to hold themselves to such standards – not least in the case of the boorish, self‑-absorbed Speaker.

    Mark Mortimer
    Blandford Forum, Dorset

    1. SIR – John Bercow has already reneged on one promise to retire as Speaker.

      Bernard Jenkin (Comment, October 23) may believe that Mr Bercow’s tenure will be over in “just a few 
 days”, but nobody should be surprised if he finds yet another excuse to remain.

      David Miller
      Chigwell, Essex

      SIR – The Speaker’s continued lack of impartiality is an affront to the privileged position that he holds – and, coupled with the bullying claims made against him (investigation of which he has resisted), is further evidence of his total unfitness for it.

      I trust that when he stands down at the end of the month he will not be accorded the ennoblement that traditionally follows – after all, he is no respecter of precedent, as he has so gleefully demonstrated so gleefully in the past. I suspect there are at least 17.4 million other people hoping for this outcome.

      Peter Higgins
      West Wickham, Kent

      SIR – Is it possible that next weekend could produce a triple joy?

      We could leave the EU by default, win the Rugby World Cup – and see the departure of John Bercow.

      David Ewens
      Wedmore, Somerset

      1. Yo Epi

        Bernard Jenkin (Comment, October 23) may believe that Mr Bercow’stenure will be over in “just a few 
 days”, but nobody should be
        surprised if he finds yet another excuse to remain.

        Berk O is a serial Remoaner, well for anything that is good for

        His Ego
        His pocket
        His bEUloved eu

        He is a traitor,

    2. I would like to have been a fly on the wall during Lt Gen Leakey’s eight years as Black Rod. His integrity and professionalism must have got right up Berk-O’s nose, and I suspect that he knew how to deal with any bullying from such a minnow.

      ‘Morning, Epi.

  16. The stalling of Brexit again & the Keith Vaz affair yet again show our current political system is no longer fir for purpose. Far to many in the commons and Lords are in my view unfit to hold public office

    For the commons we need to review who can stand as a candidate at present there is almost no qualification at all needed, As far as I can tell you dont even need to be able to speak or read English

    Quite how you decide who is fit to stand as a Candidate is a difficult question but somehow we need to improve the current gutter level standards

      1. Schoolgirl, 11, tasered by police and charged after teacher stabbed in Australia

        Good job it was not in the UK you can imagine the uproar and indignation from the Lib-Dim’s. They would be calling for the officer to be prosecuted and sacked and for the police to pay compensation to the girl

        An 11-year-old schoolgirl has been charged with wounding and knife possession after a teacher was stabbed at a school in Australia.
        Multiple students are said to have witnessed the incident, which took place in Heatley, Queensland, at around midday.

        Officers tasered a girl before taking her into custody having found her in the school grounds, police said.

        A 56-year-old female teacher suffered a small non-life threatening wound to the back of her shoulder.

        1. School report reads: insufficient attention to detail, missed opportunities, should try harder 🙂

  17. Good stuff…. as usual

    Liberal denial about immigration is legitimising a tragic global crisis
    SHERELLE JACOBS – DAILY TELEGRAPH COLUMNIST – 29 OCTOBER 2019 • 6:00AM

    We should be deeply troubled by the evasive and shallow coverage of the Essex lorry deaths

    As the daughter of an immigrant, I know all too well that liberal idealism about migration is vacuous nonsense. Only those without experience of the phenomenon could regard it as metaphysically “good”. The reality is paradoxical: seeking success abroad is admitting failure in your own country; “building a new life” is cultural self-mutilation; Opportunity is Adversity with brochure gloss.

    After the Nigerian civil war ended in 1970, my dad migrated to Britain, grafting his way into a happy middle-class existence, married to an English woman and running his own business. Could he have found an easier, more unruffled happiness in a version of Nigeria that was not so dysfunctional?

    Questions like this are uncomfortable, but important to ask. Many see migration as humanity striding towards a colourful borderless utopia. Mixed-race kids like me know we are the kaleidoscopic product of a world that is fundamentally broken.

    Hence why I can’t help but bristle at the evasive and shallow discussion around the Essex lorry deaths. The Left scooped last week’s tragedy into the sweeping embrace of its own agenda with maternal quickness. Diane Abbott immediately called for “safe and legal” routes for refugees into the UK – even though there was no evidence the deceased were such. It has since emerged that many paid thousands to be smuggled into Britain for work.

    This obfuscating misapplication of the term “refugee” is deliberate. It betrays the liberal’s desire to reduce the narrative about migration to a Manichean clash of visions: the compassionate utopia of open borders versus an evil dystopia of barbed wire customs checks.

    It also reflects a troubling reluctance to engage in meaningful debate specifically about economic migration, beyond autopilot idealism about migrants’ willingness to “do jobs others won’t do” and “search for a better life”.

    In particular, few have addressed the question: Why are citizens of Vietnam – a burgeoning tech hub with a growing middle class – paying huge sums and risking their lives to work in British cannabis farms and nail bars? Like many emerging economies, Vietnam is building its wings at the same time as it takes off. Household debt has surged more than 50 times over. Social mobility trails behind growth. One of the victims, Pham Thi Tra My, was from Hà Tĩnh, where a chemical spill in 2016 killed off the local fishing livelihood. Meanwhile, in low-wage Britain, demand is booming for goods and services at rock-bottom prices from pot to mani-pedis.

    Illegal economic migration is then the byproduct of a malfunctioning global system, whereby developing countries can’t meet the expectations of their aspirational next generation, and the West is overreliant on cheap consumerism. In this context, the old cliche – lauding immigrants for being willing to do the jobs that others won’t do – legitimises a cruel status quo.

    The self-indulgent ignorance of those who posture as outward-looking cosmopolitans is a tragedy because it means that we are not thinking deeply enough about globalisation’s effects. As well as plunging workers across the world into a race to the bottom, and luring countries like Vietnam into a “middle-income trap”, it has fuelled a ruinous brain-drain, as professionals ditch their mother countries for better work, pay and universities in the West.

    We must do more to clamp down on people trafficking (and reduce legal immigration too). But to reinvent the world economy, limiting supply of products, services and labour – which Trumpian trade wars, intellectual property enforcement and Mexican walls to aim to do – won’t be enough. A lasting solution lies in somehow expanding global demand, through higher wages and productivity in the Global South.

    While there are no easy answers, liberal romanticism prevents us from debating solutions at all. Indeed, it is staggering that our internationalist bourgeoisie should show so little interest in debating our planet’s structural economic flaws. Perhaps grand Mcnarratives for the white-guilt-ridden masses about how migration is natural because “we all come from Africa” has rendered intelligent people incapable of contextualising it within a collapsing global architecture.

    Until we desist from such hollow virtue-signalling, the stories of lucky immigrants like my father, and unlucky migrants like those who met their deaths in the back of a lorry, will never be truly grasped – and we stand a much lesser chance of changing the world.

    1. “While there are no easy answers, liberal romanticism prevents us from debating solutions at all.”

      Not just immigration, of which serious debate was blocked by the Labour party’s use of the words racist and racism.

      Many important aspects of modern day Britain need serious discussion – our finances, NHS efficiency, welfare costs, etc., etc. – but our playground politicians find it much easier to kick the difficult problems down the road.

      1. Last night’s ‘debate’ reminded me of toddlers fighting in a sand pit.
        I found myself coming over all Joyce Grenfell.

        1. ‘Morning Anne
          How mild,I found myself coming over all Pinochet complete with helicopter sound effects

        2. Morning Anne.

          Much of what’s happening leaves me stone cold and feeling like I’m stuck in a maze. I avoid it as best I can.

          2. Although I stay in four nights a week, I don’t watch much telly and my radios are tucked away in a cupboard.

            I’ll be nipping into town tonight for a pint or three and enjoying the company of those a million miles away from the Westminster bubble.

    2. Funny old world
      I hadn’t realised before that Sherelle was of “Nigerian Heritage”,it gives her a major advantage in truthsaying,just as Douglas Murray being gay does
      Imagine the twitterstorm if the above had been written by a straight white male,the screams of “racist” “white privilege” “patronising” woiuld be deafening as the usual mob attacked.
      The same applies to Murray he has written many articles that would see him shunned from public life if he wasn’t gay.
      Thank Gawd for the pair of them,sane voices in a sea of insanity

      1. I didn’t realise she was of mixed parentage, either. Truly it doesn’t matter where you’re from if you tell the truth.

    4. Indeed, it is staggering that our internationalist bourgeoisie should show so little interest in debating our planet’s structural economic flaws.

      It is beyond control or correction. We have a Wolf by the ears and dare not let him go! When we tire he will have us by the throat!

      1. We have currently an asylum system that is unfit for purpose, Fraud is rife and it actively encourages illegal migration and people trafficking something that was almost unheard of a few decades ago. It also actively further undermines the economies of these countries they come from as well as damaging the economies of the countries they flood to

        The system will have to change as it cannot possible work. Hundreds of millions of people are migrating to Europe where most of the countries are already over crowded. I dont see the politicians do anything until things collapse into chaos and by then it will be to late

  18. I read that “commemorative coins minted to mark Brexit on 31 October will be “recycled” after the UK’s exit from the EU was delayed by a further three months.”

    And sod the expense, it’s only public money.

    Has anyone totted up the cost of the delays our MPs have forced upon us, not to mention the cost imposed by the Withdrawal Agreement itself if it’s approved?

    In fact, when are those who spend public money like drunken sailors before waltzing off into the sunset going to be held accountable for their actions?

    The UK is up to its eyeballs in debt, still having to borrow to make ends meet and yet our political class acts as though we’d just won the global lottery.

    1. I attach no blame to Boris. He worked a miracle and got the WAB changed and in a very short time. Now Boris had every reason to expect this to get through the commons as Labour had said they would accept a deal that removed the backstop and that is what he delivered. . This wrong footed Labour who never expected it to happen so they had to dream up a new excuse to reject it. It is not entirely clear as to why they rejected it but seems to be the one of using the excuse that No deal was still not off the table a pretty weak argument when it was a deal on the table

      1. He should not have promised what he could not deliver. I trust him no longer. Vote Brexit party its the ONLY way.

        Do not be taken in again.

          1. Another wonderful typo. “Labour’s retirements”; may I add LibDem, ScotsNats and Greens to the list?

        2. The numbers are against him.
          He may be judged guilty of expecting C21 MPs to honour their promises.

          1. He also reasonably expeted Labour to back the deal as they had said they would back a deal without the backstop

      2. My point was about the spending and wasting of public money, Bill.

        As for Boris, I recall his recent promises for a few billions of public money to be spent here and there. Ditto some of his senior cabinet ministers.

        As for his ‘great new deal’ (revised WA), I read that most of its substance is the same as that rejected three times in parliament and would leave us up a gum tree without a paddle.

    2. Never mind the expense of all those “Get ready for Brexit” adverts and the cost of the electricity for the signs on the motorways. The beggars witter on about “uncertainty”, but they are the chief causes of uncertainty by constantly derailing Brexit. If we’d met the first deadline, it would all have been done and dusted by now, businesses would have adjusted, trade deals would have been made and we’d be well on our way to profitability. Instead, Lord alone knows when, if ever, we will break free of the EU stranglehold and get what we voted for.

      1. I believe we will get what we voted for, simply because most of our people – leave or remain – are far more honourable than the scum trying to overturn a democratic vote.

  19. Watching many of the Brexit debates has shown me and others just how dysfunctional the commons is. It also shows why so much poor legislation gets through. I watched the debate which was supposed to be scrutinising the WAB. No scrutiny took place at all, All that took place was endless MP’s stood up to say why they did not like it or too just randomly waffle on about totally irreverent things

    Was anyone the wiser after this debate about the WAB? No. Did the MP’d in the chamber understand it ? No. Had they even read it? Most had not

    1. I’m glad you are following this, Bill. It would drive me dotty, and I’d not only have excessive blood pressure, but likely a broken TV, too.

      Good morning, BTW.

      1. I would not go as far as say I understood it. Well there was nothing to understand. It was just MP after MP standing up and having a rant. The subject that was so

        It is not even the way to do it in my view. It needs a committee of people with relevant expertise to review the document first . One of these experts then briefs the commons and they can then debate it

    2. The Brexit debates has shown us all that more especially with Labour MPs and the Lib dems that the quality and integrity of character is sadly lacking .

      Vicious weasel faces, and vituperative outpourings appear to be all they are capable of . ( with my apologies to the mammal Weasels )

      3. Most of it was outright lies such as the NHS was going to be sold to America , All workers rights would be torn up sand discarded and we would have no environmental legislation. At no point dis the speaker ask them to justify these claims. There was also one foul mouthed female MP claiming Brexit was responsible for MP’s being attacked. even though no MP’s have been physically attacked

    3. MB had the ‘debates’ running for a while on the telly.
      The low calibre of most of the massed debaters was appalling.
      No wonder this country is in trouble.

    1. Cannon to right of them,
      Cannon to left of them,
      Cannon behind them
      Volleyed and thundered;
      Stormed at with shot and shell,
      While horse and hero fell.

  22. Strange how brave firefighters are being turned into scapegoats.

    Funny really that this block of flats didn’t have list of residents.. and that some of the flats were sub let..

    1. The report did not say that it actually praised the firefighters. The criticism was of the LFB’s senior management

    2. If any evidence was required to shew the corrosive effect of the Common Purpose cancer infecting so many British institutions one only needs to look at the incompetence of the London Fire Brigade’s leadership.

      1. I doubt that the accusing finger will end up pointing at the very top. That’s not how it works these days e.g. Dick of the Yard, continual promotions after her major disaster. If anybody is blamed it will be lower down the food chain.

      2. There is a distinct whiff of “We were only obeying orders”.
        Nobody nowadays – particularly in the public sector – is allowed to use their own judgement.

    3. Truth’s a dog that must to kennel. He must be whipped out, when Lady Brach may stand by th’ fire and stink.

      [King Lear]

  25. My comment to John Redwood’s Diary, this morning.

    This rush to near 100% electrification is easily demanded by, in engineering and getting one’s hands dirty terms, uneducated people. It is pie in the sky thinking by a Government which, instead of applauding an equally uneducated 16-year-old for her “green” credentials, must get out into the real World and talk to experts who know what they are talking about.

    Keeping it short and on pain of being accused of asking the bleeding obvious, where are all the tradesmen coming from to rewire all the homes, offices. factories, schools etc? Where is all the copper cable coming from? The new equipment? The generating capacity?

    It’s one question after another and that is just looking at a few of the obvious top line needs.

    I played a small part in BT’s network replacement back in the 1980s and 1990s. That massive project was years in the planning and over a decade in the realisation. Put simply, all we had to do was replace around 800 main exchanges, several thousand local exchanges and enhance the cable network. This ‘rush to a carbon neutral’ UK dwarfs our effort. Where to start…

  26. A plea from an elderly dinosaur typing this on a 10-year-old Mac:

    “MacRumours in their wisdom will not give a category for discussing Snow Leopard – they only go back to Lion. This is probably because Snow Leopard remains the best version of OS X even today, and Apple are determined to bury it and force us all to buy inferior products.

    I use SL on my 2010 Macbook Pro because it has the last Mail interface I can live with – I struggle with remembering things and find scrolling hard to live with – therefore an easily sortable list of emails, with one-per-line listing, allowing many more items per page, is essential. This was dropped on or after Lion in order to make it more like iOS. Furthermore, the Disk Utility on SL is far superior to anything since. The stability and reliability of 10.6.8 is also well understood.

    I do not like at all the latest snooping backdoors insisted on by State and Commercial interests, which I consider to be even less secure than old operating systems. These cannot be turned off, are constantly being updated without my knowledge or consent, take away suddenly functionality I rely on and then install most unwanted bloatware and adware, and rely on the Cloud rather than offline storage, meaning that my data can be held to ransom by some corporation somewhere. I never forget or forgive how Google destroyed the Panoramio archive, nor the recent wiping of the Disqus Channels archive.

    I use and keep updated as much antivirus software I can lay my hands on, and take the usual precautions about not clicking on dodgy email links. I also turn off my WiFi and router often in an attempt to thwart hackers. I know all too well that SL has not had security updates for many years.

    I also run XP through an old version of Parallels Desktop, which fills a number of OS X’s shortcomings – my printer likes XP better; XP has a better file management interface, and there are a number of legacy apps that only run on XP. XP has not had any security updates since April 2019, so in a sense it is a little more secure than SL, even though hackers do prefer to do their business through Windows.

    My problem right now is the warnings coming up from Facebook, iPlayer and possibly YouTube that they will not support my browser any longer. The latest browser I have found is Firefox 45 ESR, although that has recently started crashing my system, so I had to revert to Firefox 48, which is stable for now. Other browsers such as Roccat and Arctic Fox are older technology. The Google/Opera family will not load on SL, insisting on a poorer later of OS X before they will install. One of my internet banking websites also no longer works on FF48 – coming up with white pages when clicking on links, although it still works on FF53 running through XP. I don’t like to hang around XP online for too long when banking. though.

    What I am after is a workround that enables me to keep using Facebook, iPlayer and internet banking without exposing me to the horrors of current software and website design upgrades that I find I cannot live with. Or do I need to go back to pen-and-ink and give up on the internet as it closes down around me? Is there some mileage in going down the Linux route? If so, which is the best distro, ideally one which works on Parallels Desktop 8 (later versions of that require the inferior later versions of OS X)?”

    2. “This is probably because Snow Leopard remains the best version of OS X even today, and Apple are determined to bury it and force us all to buy inferior products.”
      They obviously don’t have an ounce of sense

    3. I used to have Snow Leopard on my old Mac. Sadly the machine died some years ago.

      I now have an ageing Lenovo running an out of date version of Debian Linux with Firefox as Chrome will no longer work.

      My son updated the Desktop with Debian9 some months ago which is ok but different to the version I’m used to.

      I haven’t used XP since I was at work – I retired in 2011. No Microsoft tat sullies our home.

  27. Yesterday Nagsman & I went forth from Wilts up to The Big Smoke.

    How scruffy the vast majority of ‘Londoners’ look..

    After an early supper of tapas and Malbec at Goya we trotted off to (Methodist) Central Hall Westminster for (Spectator sponsored) ‘An evening with Douglas Murray & Lionel Shriver on identity politics’.

    First up on stage was a young man who pranced about in winkle-picker shoes with a handheld microphone. From his demeanour, he was evidently very pleased with himself and seemed to be speaking in a foreign tongue. We couldn’t understand a word he uttered and didn’t like him. He was probably Fraser Nelson, editor of the Speccie.

    To great applause from the assembled 2,000+ packed to the rafters, the main act of Sonny & Cher then appeared stage right, wired for sound in the manner of modern-day crooners and sat down in leather arm chairs. We were in the upper tier and couldn’t hear a bloody thing that they were saying; nor could the people seated around us. We left after half an hour, complained to the Speccie’s Events totty bird in Reception, and found the nearest pub for refreshments.

    We fell into conversation with a delightful couple from Minnesota on their first visit to Lunnon. Naggers showed Mrs. photographs of horses on her iPhone; I discussed English ale with Mr. A rather inebriated 65+ year old Londoner tried to enter the merry throng by telling Naggers “It looks as if Brexit is dead; it was a silly idea from the beginning.” This was a mistake on his part; think ‘ear’ and ‘flea’.

    We caught an earlier train back to Chippenham than planned. So much for our Big Night Out with the Metropolitan Elite.

    2. I did that over 2 years ago, never again, ever.

      Even my train ride home was disturbingly alien .. Fellow passengers were from another planet , and looking around there were only a handful that I thought I could feel comfortable with .

      I guess I must be an utter snob!

      1. You don’t have to be snobbish to feel that way, Belle.
        Alien;
        1. belonging to a foreign country.
        2. unfamiliar and disturbing or distasteful.

    3. Some mistake shirley? A “65+ year old Londoner“would be “an old person” and as we are so often told it was only old people who voted Leave, so he can’t have been a Remainer?????

  28. Trump tweets photo of ‘wonderful’ dog that took part in Baghdadi raid. 29 October 2019.

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dcaa6202174c072f2003c50286b4f4a04752bdd4bd3e717a62269e7319051fd4.jpg

    On Sunday the US president had the hailed the dog as a “good boy”, “beautiful” and “talented”, who had chased down Baghdadi moments before he detonated his vest. The dog sustained minor injuries and was being treated by vets.

    Wasn’t there a poster on the old DT threads called Wuffo the Wonder Dog? This must be him!

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/oct/29/zero-bark-thirty-dog-that-took-part-in-al-baghdadi-raid-sets-tongues-wagging

      2. He may have hairs upon his chest but so, sister, has Lassie.

        (From the song: I Hate Men in Kiss Me Kate)

    2. With that apparent incarnation of the Devil bearing down on Baghdadi, no wonder he went to pieces.
      Er…

    3. Some friends of ours have a Belgian Shepherd dog which is rather smaller than the better known German Shepherd. I must admit it is a most excellent dog – intelligent, alert, playful, good looking and friendly. Indeed like many of us here!

  29. Is it a coincidence that when victory is obtainable those in charge instead of pressing ahead, falter,mark time, and do seem to submit somewhat with the enemas commands ?
    This came about also in 2016 on reflection.

  30. Keith Vaz was taken to hospital hours after MPs found ‘compelling evidence’ he paid two men for sex and offered to buy cocaine for a rent boy.

    The Leicester East MP revealed his medical admission shortly after a three-year inquiry found he had breached parliamentary rules and recommended he be suspended from the Commons for six months.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7624829/Shamed-Keith-Vaz-taken-hospital-just-hours-sex-drugs-shame-report.html?ico=pushly-notifcation-small

    Why oh why did the inquiry last three years.. was it convenient for Labour to keep him on board for votes etc?

    3. Vaz is the personification of all that is now wrong with Britain and the British system of government and justice

  31. Dawkins believes he knows and he doesn’t like Johnson (followed by two published letters):

    I would normally not mention Brexit in a diary such as this. But the humiliation of our sick-joke Prime Minister has dominated the week and cannot be avoided. I expected a good verdict from the Supreme Court, but its unanimity and decisiveness had me whooping and thumping the table with joy. It really deserved a standing ovation and I sensed one rising up from decent people all over the country. Whether you voted Leave or Remain, you are surely revolted by the unashamed manipulation of the Queen for partisan political ends. Ends, moreover, that have no sensible connection to ‘the will of the people’. For when ‘the people’ expressed their will in 2016, ‘Leave’ most certainly did not mean ‘Leave with no deal’. It meant, as were repeatedly assured, an orderly and amicable separation.

    I hate the very idea of a referendum. Referendums are capable of naming a ship ‘Boaty McBoatface’. We are a parliamentary democracy. We vote for representatives who have the time (and salary) to examine complicated economic and political issues thoroughly and give an informed vote. Nevertheless, having got into this mess through David Cameron’s cowardly folly, the only way out is another referendum. If Leave wins again, we should accept it with good grace and make the best of it. But it’s hard to imagine that Leave could possibly win again, now that we know — as we did not in 2016 — what Leave really means. A connoisseur, too, of religious faith, I detect it in the fanatical zeal of Brexiteers: those for whom the 2016 vote has become unchangeable holy writ; those who are prepared to force Brexit through at any price, even if the price is the obvious and undeniable disaster of no deal. Boris Johnson’s bullying, threatening bluster, when he should be apologising if not resigning, may betoken cynical ambition, but the ill-mannered cheering-on by his barmy supporters surely stems from blind faith.

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/richard-dawkins-its-hard-to-imagine-that-leave-would-win-a-second-referendum/

    Deny Remainers oxygen
    Sir: Your correspondent Richard Dawkins seems to have a very tenuous grasp of logic for an academic (Diary, 5 October). He excoriates a referendum on the grounds that in the run-up the voters may have been misled. There is one choice between two alternatives, and the supporters of each outcome will do their best to persuade. Both may be less than truthful. Yet he adores a general election with five or six candidates hawking their conflicting and unfulfillable manifestos — all of them those pillars of veracity, politicians.

    Let us be frank. Since the shock result of 2016 we have listened to the whines of the EU fanatics for more than three years until they have become extremely boring. Please do not lend your valuable pages to giving them yet more oxygen. The fact is the referendum was not rigged (this has been tested in the courts and rejected). The Remainers lost. Get over it. As for Master Dawkins, may God forgive him.
    Frederick Forsyth
    Beaconsfield, Bucks

    Leave meant leave
    Sir: Richard Dawkins (Diary, 5 October) states firmly that those voting Leave in the Brexit referendum in 2016 ‘most certainly did not mean “Leave with no deal”’. I’m unsure how he knows this. He is certainly wrong in my case: I voted to leave — with a deal if that was possible, or under WTO rules if no deal could be negotiated.
    Peter Lucey
    Wokingham, Berkshire

    1. Attenborough is another one who considers the public unqualified to vote in the referendum.

    2. I thought when we voted ‘Leave’ we were simply resigning, much as if leaving any other organisation.

      It was only in the following days after the result that the pro-EU media invented a ‘deal’. We had all been blitzed earlier than that by Cameron et al telling us that if we left we’d be leaving the single market, no more free movement etc, etc.

      24th June 2016 – ‘Oh, what about a nice ‘soft’ Brexit, so much cuddlier than that horrible hard sort’.

    3. Hang on! The lieges voted for the ship to be called ‘Boaty McBoatface’. They were ignored. It has been named after a smooth and mellifluous commentator on films. Referenda can be useful, but not as far as the extended pofaced morality free politburo that runs this country is concerned.

      Strange how they work in Switzerland, nearly every month.

    4. It would seem that Dawkins has the same attitude to people who believe in God and Leave voters – “I am very intelligent. I am an atheist and voted Remain. If you don’t agree with me (on either subject) you are very stupid”.

    5. Richard Dawkins was born stupid and age has not improved his grasp on reality. His arrogance and sense of superiority have increased though. But when you surround yourself with Remainers, even someone with a normal level of intelligence strides the room like an intellectual Titan.

      1. But he’s right about Johnson, who has now revealed himself as Brussels Toadie Supreme by signing a letter to Brussels yesterday confirming the further ‘delay’. He’s also right about evolution.

        1. Ooo – you edited that to add the evolution bit after I upvoted up, which is why I’m taking it away again. 🙂

          (Evolution is one of those pointless topics. It is certainly true in many areas, but not all. But it is a “dead-end” debate. You either know it or not. 🙂

    6. “We vote for representatives who have the time (and salary) to
      examine complicated economic and political issues thoroughly and give an
      informed vote.”
      Best Laff I’ve read all week,the lazy buggers are neither inclined or capable of doing the work,they even boast of not having read what they vote on

    7. I voted to leave without any deal because I know the EU can’t be trusted to deal honourably.

  33. ‘Brexit Day’ coins…….redundant!

    An incredibly rare coin bearing the head of Edward VIII has sold for a record £516,000, the highest sum ever paid for a British coin.
    It is one of only two ‘proof’ gold coins that were struck ahead of the production of commemorative sovereign coins to mark the king’s coronation in 1937.
    But in December 1936 Edward abdicated in order to marry US divorcee Wallis Simpson, before the sovereigns were made, making the coins redundant.

    Now about those redundant BREXIT coins……

    1. The moment the Abdication was announced my father nipped to the Post Office and bought a sheet of Edward VIII stamps.
      I saw them as a child, but I have no idea what happened after that.
      Ooops ….. senility strikes. I’ve already posted summat similar.

    1. Rik – Fortune is smiling on our country as far as the Labour Party goes. They are in the middle of a hard-core Marxist takeover that repels “normal people” and at the same time the Liberals have taken the gloves off and are ripping away the Remainers while The Brexit Party are harvesting their Leave voters.

      Even with the increasing numbers of “Diane’s favourite people” the Labour party is looking at its worst result for years. Not that the ever-truthful media will report that in their “game for a laugh” political polling numbers. Their ongoing project fear propaganda needs them to pretend that Labour are a threat.

      1. I do hope that ‘wipeout’ isn’t overstating their fate at the next GE. This is why we need it now, while Comrade Steptoe, the Abbopotomus et al are still in post.

      2. For me the best possible election result would be for the Conservatives to be the largest party in the Commons but with The Brexit Party winning about 100 seats making it impossible for the Conservatives to form a government without them. Of course the price the Conservatives would have to pay would be to ditch Boris’s ‘Surrender to the EU’ deal and go for a clean Brexit.

        Unlikely – but what other result is acceptable?

        Vote Conservative and get Boris’s surrender deal or
        Vote for the others and get Brexit cancelled.

        As I have made it clear over the last few days I think that Remain is better than the Boris capitulation as it would lead to a proper Brexit more quickly.

        1. I almost agree with you and would fully agree if the Conservative Party were the same party that I started voting for 30 years ago. From what we have seen unfolding I think think that there are more people with the “traditional Conservative mindset” in The Brexit Party than we have in the Government now.

          I want my country to be free of the EU, so I would like there to be a majority of Brexit Party members backed up by the remaining “real Conservatives” in power. That way we can wave goodbye to the EU once and for all. But people can have difficulty changing which party they vote for. Our system is bad for the smaller parties, but there is that “tipping point” where all bets are off.

          I hope that people are angry enough at our betrayal by the MP’s of all parties that they can make that step. It will be much easier than what will happen to our country otherwise.

          1. Th ONLY way in which to get TBP MPs is for Johnson to do a deal with Farage. He has said he won’t. So that’s that.

          2. Good morning, Bill

            Then we’re probably lost for the foreseeable future.

            It all comes down to the simple question:

            Does Boris Johnson really want us to leave the EU properly?

            I am afraid he is full of bluster, urine and flatulence.

            (But as you say: “He has said he won’t. So that’s that.” But he does not always do what he says he will do, does he?)

          3. ‘Morning Richard
            The failure of the “cunning plan” to appear combined with the failure to filibuster the surrender act in the Lords and above all the pushing of “May Mk 4”
            He ain’t no leaver
            It’s all been Kabuki theatre,shadows lies and deception

          4. Doris said ” We would be out of the EU on October 31st…….did he mean next year or the year after?

          5. Bill – More fool Boris then. This just shows that he is a globalist who never intended to have any form of real Brexit. Boris could ensure that we leave the EU by working with those who really want to leave. Now Boris has to rely on people “tribal voting” for the party in order to cling on to power.

            Boris is not a nice man. You vote for him if you wish. I will be voting to free my country.

          8. I may have misread your comment. 🙂 I think that The Brexit Party will win seats anyway, with or without Boris’s help, if people realise how serious a betrayal of our country his deal is.

            As for the Conservative Party, I have always voted for them and I would do so in the future, but only if they became “Real Conservatives” again. They will need to get rid of the vast majority of their MP’s for that to happen. At the moment many of them are working for the EU, and that is not a party that I can vote for.

          9. I cannot imagine the Conservatives ever returning to the sort of party for which I voted for many years. The whole organisation is beyond parody and the pale.

          10. Any party that does not deselect Theresa May after what she tried to do to us has serious ethical problems. What was her final roll of the dice? Offering to work with the Labour party to get this deal through with the promise of a 2nd referendum as a sweetener? Those are not the acts of someone who should be allowed to remain in the Conservative party.

        2. We need some Brexit MPs as the grit in the oyster; the pebble in the shoe to keep Brexit on track.

    3. Blimey, was Marr having a good day for once??

      The sniggering Abbopotomus is not a pretty sight, either.

  36. Theey divvn’t really naa that much aboot wor cuuntry:

    Crack, please
    Sir: It may be too late to halt the progress of the ‘craic’ (a ‘hideous neologism’ according to the late Professor Diarmaid Ó Muirithe of Dublin University), but it was surprising to see it used in The Spectator last week in a letter addressed from Northumberland.

    Years ago I read an article in the Observer saying how significant it was that there was no word in English to correspond to the Irish term ‘the craic’. But the crack has for centuries been used from North Yorkshire to Scotland with exactly the same meaning as in the bogus ‘Gaelic’ spelling. I could quote sources from Anne Brontë to my Tyneside grandfathers — who would claim to my grandmothers that they went to the pub ‘for a bit crack’. The Concise Oxford Dictionary defines crack (8) as ‘dial. colloq. conversation; good company; fun’.
    Terence Ryle
    London NW11

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/letters-david-camerons-real-referendum-mistake/

    A Bit Crack
    a-bit-crack-1

    Storytelling for Adult Audiences in the North East. We meet to share stories at 7.30pm on the first Friday of every month at the Cobalt Studio:
    10-16 Boyd St, Newcastle upon Tyne, NE2 1AP
    Guest storytellers are invited from around the world and there’s always an opportunity for voices from the floor. Our Open Nights give chance for new tellers to find their voice.
    We promote storytelling in local Theatres and Arts Centres in the region.
    We run training courses in storytelling skills.
    We provide contacts for tellers to work in formal or informal venues.
    For further information about A Bit Crack, just sign up for our mailout http://www.abitcrack.com
    A Bit Crack – Storytellers are:
    Chris Bostock, Malcolm Green, Claire Randles and Pat Renton
    Post navigation
    ← The Singing WindStorytelling in Schools →
    © 2019 Chris Bostock the Storyteller All Rights Reserved.

    https://chrisbostock.co.uk/project/a-bit-crack/

    1. ‘What’s the crack?’

      That’s what we said as an alternative to ‘Hoo’s it gannin?’

      Never ‘craic’, whatever the hell that might be.

        1. It’s the spelling that’s the problem. 50 years ago it was ‘crack’. Recently with the interweb that ‘craic’ has been creeping into areas where it never was seen.

          My father-in-law was as Irish as they come and he didn’t use ‘craic’.

      4. I’d never come across it until the 1980s when I saw it used in a flyer publicising entries for an historic car rally celebrating the anniversary of Oxford University Motor Drivers Club’s Targa Rusticana. The forward was by a man called John Brown, who I never understood to be from the North East, or Ireland.
        “Come along for the crack” it said. We had of course all taken wakey wakey pills at times, but never cocaine, so I was a bit baffled…

  37. Breaking
    Hysterical screaming woman arrested in Windsor
    Heard to say
    “If you think you’re pissing off to Japan to get drunk,have fun with your mates and watch rugby you’ve got another think coming you little ginger shite!”

    1. He has been hired. If the BBC loves you, you have job until you die of extreme old age.

  41. A puzzled pensioner writes. I went into Fakenham to the farmers’ supplies place to buy a pair of water boots (that’s what yer Narfurk people call wellingtons).

    There was a range – from £12 to £180…… When I first came here, there were two brands on offer – each about a tenner.

    2. I can sell you a very fashionable non waterproof Wellies for a £180 guaranteed to last at least 6 months

  42. FIRE chiefs could face manslaughter charges for telling Grenfell Tower residents to “stay put” for hours, an official report into the tragedy says.The damning 1,000-page document concluded “systematic failures” by the London Fire Brigade (LFB) caused a greater loss of life

    The official report, which followed a two-year investigation, found a full evacuation should have been implemented at least an hour before the order was given.

      1. People need to try to learn to read, No blame was attached to the firefighters in fact they were praised. THe gross failures were at the top with the senior management who totally failed

          1. That’s is down to the LFB. My understanding s well ids the LFB are supposed to hold plans of high risk building and I would have thought high rise falls into that category but it appeared they did not

      2. KH is wrong on this occasion; the firefighters on the ground were praised for their actions, but their leadership at the top was incompetent.

        1. The way that I read her words, she was saying that the firefighters were NOT to blame. It is the Establishment who produced the report who are blaming them, and they (the writers) are the repugnant ones.

    2. Every one should know at the first sign of a real fire you leave asap.

      I would not have stayed in those flats no matter what anyone said to me.
      I would have been right.
      i have lost count the number of fire plans I have have done for so many buildings. Every one told people to leave asap in the event of a fire.

      1. Possibly in High Rise buildings with a single staircase the first instruction should be to stay put if safe to do so. When the Fire brigade first arrive they need to assess the situation. If the containment has failed then the first priority should be to evacuate the building with only minimal firefighting to keep the staircase clear. They also need to consider the time that has elapsed from the first call as the containment is normally only 1 hour after that it will start to fail

        1. I do not agree with that.People should evacuate asap in a confirmed fire. You should never ever say to someone to stay put, they should leave if they can.

      2. One of the few places where people go into a building instead of leaving are hospitals. That’s obvious, as there’ll be too many people who are unable to evacuate, so staff will go onto wards and other departments, e.g. theatres, and use horizontal evacuation, where there should be adequate fire barriers between patients and a fire.
        In a tower block, or any other building, people should get out, asap.

        1. All to often though you see serious breaches of fire safety in Hospitals such as Fire doors held open and corridors cluttered with beds and all sorts of equipment. Corridors should always be kept clear and fires doors kept closed

    3. https://j4mb.org.uk/2018/02/01/dany-cotton-head-of-the-london-fire-brigade-complains-about-the-sexism-she-has-faced-throughout-her-30-year-career-at-the-lfb-then-admits-every-promotion-shes-had-including-the-latest-are-down/#disqus_thread

      “Dany Cotton, head of the London Fire Brigade complains about the sexism she has faced throughout her 30-year career at the LFB – then admits every promotion she’s had, including the latest, are down to anti-MALE sexism
      Our thanks to James for this piece in The Guardian. Unusually, we’ve archived it, because it contains a revelation from Dany Cotton that the paper may come to regret.

      The piece focuses on the fuss following her suggestion about renaming Fireman Sam as Firefighter Sam, and notes she still heads up a women’s network within the fire brigade. So we know where her priorities lie. But these paragraphs caught my eye, emphasis mine:

      Speaking at a event entitled “Gender Equality: will it take another 100 years” organised by the Young Women’s Trust, Cotton revealed the sexism she has faced throughout her 30-year career at the LFB.

      Asked whether she supported quotas in industries dominated by men, she warned that women promoted during quota periods could suffer because of positive discrimination. “For every single rank promotion I’ve got I have been told, every single time, that I’m going to get the job because I’m the only woman on the panel – even the job I’ve got now. Which is quite bizarre, really,” she said.

      How can women who’ve been promoted during quota periods “suffer because of positive discrimination”? After “revealing the sexism she has faced throughout her 30-year career at the LFB”, Ms Cotton admits to having been informed in advance that anti-male sexism has been behind every promotion she’s had, right to the top of the LFB. And still she complains about sexism!!!

      “Quite bizarre” doesn’t start to get at the truth. Bloody outrageous anti-meritocratic anti-male promotions, more like.”

      https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/05/dany-cotton-london-fire-brigade-commissioner-interview
      “Hairy-arsed’ macho image has to go, says London Fire Brigade’s first female boss”

      This morning, hearing the news about the inquiry, and before I’d even heard her name, or that she was even a she, I said to my OH that the fire brigade boss would be another CP-type who’d been promoted above their competence.

      1. She never really took command of the fire at Grenfell and was incapable of understating that the stay put command was no longer correct as the containment had failed and iny case the fire had been burning for more than an hour

        At the enquiring she stated she would not have changed anything that she did. , I can only think she was trying to protect her own backside as clearly major mistakes were made

  43. Taken from John Ward’s latest blog – this one. – in which, in my opinion, there are a lot of sensible things written.

    “That solution lies in root and branch reform.

    “Reform of the constitutional presentation. Creative reform of an abolished House of Lords. Reform of the educational and training ethic. Reform of the economic system. Strict regulation of financial spivs. Reform of the tax system. A massive purge in Whitehall. The defeat of extreme political correctness. The devolution of real power away from London. Draconian reform of the lobbying sector. And the enshrinement of free speech as a right to be given to every citizen prepared to tolerate it in others.”

  44. Good morning from a Saxon Queen with longbow and wearing the
    colours of Exmoor .
    Brèxit isn’t dead it just hasn’t come into existence yet,
    You cannot die before being born, she needs a strong leader to
    show the way .

    1. Good morning, I see your accent is still there. Since all your other “e” letters are OK, why is the one in Brexit still there, I wonder?

      1. ‘Morning, Bill, there’s none so blind as those that cannot see.

        In Ethel’s post I cannot see Brexit (with or without an accent) let alone an accented ‘e’

        Or maybe you’re talking about an East Anglian accent – moi haart aloive Bor.

          1. Disqus playing up – I just cannot see it at all, despite scrolling up and down.

            I’ll refresh again, for the umpty-tumth time.

          2. I need to refresh when there are about 120 comments on the screen.
            A bit of a bugger when you’re trying to catch up with 200 after being out!

          3. Refreshed and now it appears.

            As they say up there in tempremental mood, “Bugger I, fluck I, blaast!”

    1. “What will you voting for if we have a General Election Ada?”
      “I can’t remember if we ever had one before, Bert – we’ll have to ask the kids”

    3. Ada: “The Labour party is having a vote on whether to vote on the voting; when they’ve voted on the voting vote they will vote on whether to vote on giving us a vote to vote on the forthcoming people’s vote, but only if the vote on voting for the people’s vote is voted to be worded as they want us to vote.”

      Bert: “Will that require another vote?”

  46. London’s parliament now seems outdated. 27 October 2019.

    Many Europeans will applaud the current renovation of the palace of Westminster. It is a site of great historical significance. It has to be preserved to attract the tourists. They want to catch a glimpse of hereditary peers, asleep in their benches, or bickering MPs, fulminating in their Eton or cockney accents.

    However, if you want to see a truly working democracy, you should no longer go to London. You had better turn to Brussels. Is that not saying something?

    It certainly is! It says that you are a moron! Westminster is not outdated it’s moribund! Brussels is an anti-democratic tyranny! We need something else!

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/27/londons-parliament-now-seems-outdated

  47. There was an immense amout of fuss in the media earlier about the fires in theBrasil Amazon rain forest. Everybody wanted to murder Bolsonaro for want of anything better. Did the fires stop suddenly.
    There seem to be lots of bush fires in California at the moment. Played low and nothing heard from Greta.

    1. If the Amazon burnings are to free up arable land, could crop planting season be over? That would explain any reduction in burning there.

      As for the rest, you are protected by the Atlantic. Our Canadian news is headlined by the Californian fires, no expense spared interviewing celebs(?) who needed to leave their homes. As for St Greta, she has finally flipped in her rantings, in Vancouver she was saying how adults must hate their children because they have not done as she demands.

      3. Reforestation means less space to grow food.
        Excess population is the root problem, not treefelling.

  48. GridWatch

    Total demand 41GW

    Wind – 4GW

    Solar 3GW (Estimate as no real data , it appears to overestimate )

    1. Combined Cycle Gas Turbines holding the fort providing over 50% of electrical power demand.

      1. We have over 37GW of installed wind capacity yet are getting output from less than 10% of it and Solar you can pretty much forget most days it is close to zero

        Lots of money to be made out of flogging Solar though. You will find most will not give a price on their Web sites. Pricing is as obscure as bank charges are basically you get charged what they can get away with

  49. The corbyn has spoken in saying the conditions for taking no deal off the table have been met ?
    Surely one must have a deal on the table to take off, so in reality what are we dealing with here is taking no deal off the table when no deal was on the table initially.

    1. It’s bastardisation of language to alter perceptions in an attempt to make a deal seem imperative.

          1. Not many Remainers are in MENSA – you have to have an IQ of 140+ to qualify for membership.

    3. I think it helps to understand Labour/Lib Dems position on Brexit if, whenever you hear them say ‘No Deal’ you substitute ‘Brexit.’ No Deal is simply a euphemism for an actual, clean-break Brexit.

      What they would really like to do is take Brexit off the table, but can’t quite bring themselves to say that. So, they have to scare-monger about stopping a ‘catastrophic, cliff-edge, No-Deal’ when what they really mean is stopping Brexit itself.

      I still believe Johnson’s Treaty is awful, but it can’t be denied that he made some progress. We were told that the Withdrawal Agreement could never be re-opened, it was handed down from on high on tablets of stone. But what made the EU start to negotiate sensibly was the threat of No Deal. In any negotiation the other side must know that you are prepared to walk away without a deal.

      By ‘taking No Deal off the table’ they are undermining our negotiating hand with a foreign power. There’s a word for that. It starts with ‘T’ and ends with ‘raitor.’

      1. The fact that the EU re-opened the ‘deal’ after saying that they would not, just demonstrates what could have been achieved if the UK government had conducted real negotiations from day 1, and also had not had to contend with all the blocking tactics of the Remainers.

        1. Yep, the reopening of a supposedly ‘done and dusted’ deal is itself ‘scene setting’ to make anyone achieving the reopening look like a ‘super hero’.

        3. WE should never have agreed unconditionally to pay them £39B also we should have required the WA and trade deal to be done in parallel

        4. Absolutely. We should have said from day one that we were preparing to leave on WTO terms, but if they wanted to offer us something better they knew where we were. But the government was so desperate to have a deal that they would accept anything, no matter how bad. From day one Johnson has said that his objective was to get a deal with the EU, which suggested to me that he wasn’t planning to deliver a clean-break Brexit, but BRINO.

      2. A few minutes ago I heard Corbyn state that the EU28 had agreed the conditions for No Deal to be off the table. What has it got to do with the EU how we decide to Leave? We have their offer and it could be refused, what then, other than No Deal?

        2. Apparently David Lammy said that the EU have more power over Brexit than the UK government. Yes David, that’s why happens when our own MPs collude to take away our power to make decisions for ourselves!

          The EU is terrified of a clean-break ‘No Deal’ Brexit. Bang goes their £39bn, and we make ourselves a low tax/low-regular competitor. The last thing the EU wants is for Brexit Britain to be a success, which means their ‘Deal’ is simply a way of keeping us on a short leash until we can be dragged back into our kennel.

      3. Afternoon JK,
        My post was made in a TIC mode, without a deal ie total severance has been my parties call since forever .
        I do not believe negotiations were in the original UKIP plan when activated and prior to common sense taking a hike to make room for the intentional brexit screw up commencing on the 25 / 6 / 2016.
        We in UKIP felt a polite goodbye would suffice.
        As for 16 year old’s having the vote my belief is they will be to busy protecting their local turf.
        As for eu resident in UK nationals, I have a teenie, weenie feeling
        they are very pro eu in the ballot booth.
        That word starting with T is tossers, but could also mean treacherous.

  51. Well it has been under construction for years via the ballot booth so now fruition is truly in sight, a three month extension that will be confirmed every three months that England / GB is working for the man….. in the eu.

  52. Corbyn’s fake Excuses for not wanting a Winter Election

    He claims Students will not be able to vote which is total nonsense they can register sat their Uni or at their home address they can also register for a postal vote but what really blows it all apart is almost all universities break up the week before Christmas and not before the 12th

    Claims that turn outs in the Winter would be low is not actually true. Most elections held in the winter have actually had high turn outs

    I suspect it is Corbyn just preparing an excuse to further block Brexit

      1. But a newspaper checked the major unis and almost none broke up until the week before Christmas ie after the 12th

        The situation with students does need to be changed though, Currently they can register both at their home address and Uni address but are only supposed to vote once. Even if they don’t vote twice they can choose to vote where their vote will have most affect. It needs to be stopped. They should have to register at their home address only

  53. Peter Hitchens is onto the absurd like a TON of bricks:

    Measure for measure
    Sir: I suppose it was foolish of me to hope that an increasingly metricated Spectator might resist the relentless drive to make us adapt to the chilly and inhuman Jacobin measurement system. In the end, I suppose, the last hundredweight will be strangled with the intestines of the last furlong, and that will be that. But in the meantime, may I be allowed to mock the contortions which this transition causes? Stephen Bayley, reviewing a life of Frank Lloyd Wright (Books, 19 October), helpfully explains that a skyscraper planned by Wright, ‘Mile High Illinois’, would have been ‘a building 1,600m tall’.

    Well, no, actually. From ground to roof it would have been, er, a mile high (5,280 feet, or 1,760 yards, almost 1,610m as it happens). In the same spirit — of letting the Cultural Revolution wash over me, while mocking it — I am looking forward to the inevitable metrication of Shakespeare, in which Hamlet is required to say to Yorick’s skull: ‘Now get you to my lady’s chamber and tell her, let her paint 2.54cm thick, to this favour she must come. Make her laugh at that.’ I will laugh at that.
    Peter Hitchens
    London W8

    https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/letters-david-camerons-real-referendum-mistake/

    1. Wouldn’t all the buildings in Boulder, Colorado be more accurately termed “Mile High”?

      1. Wot! Even the dog kennels and chicken hutches*?

        *No Starskys were involved or injured in the composition of this comment.

    2. And Noah, if he were allowed by the EU to build his Ark, would have had to taken a ‘non-binary’ approach to get the anilmals on board to save them

      In mathematics and digital electronics, a binary number is a number expressed in the base-2

      1. Reminds me of the joke about Noah’s ark; two unicorns we standing by the rail as they floated away. One says to the other, “looks like you and me, sweetheart – I’m Gerald, what’s your name, honey?” To which the other replied, “Norman”.

    3. When two of Cleopatra’s maids are discussing which one if them is better favoured by fortune they conclude:

      CHARMIAN: Well, if you were but an inch of fortune better than I, where would you choose it?
      IRAS : Not in my husband’s nose!

      (Antony and Cleopatra)

      I suppose the important thing is that that extra 2,54 cms is in a useful place.

  55. There is a sign of panic in the comments below. Resignation to remaining a supplicant to the European Union for ever. There is no escape.
    We are dependent upon them to finance our recovery from the disaster created by our attempt to escape.

        1. Before WWII

          They supported the Germans, in driving us back to our Sceptred Isle from Dunkirk

          The EUArmy then expended all its’ efforts in attacking Red Russia (this was why no Germans took part in the Annexing of France by British Forces posing as Narsties.)

          The French then coerced the US Army to join together with the French Resisitance and finally drive us back to Blighty

          EU History 2025

        3. I knew I’d come across you before . Ha ha

          “terry mcburney Greenlander • 9 days ago

          The EU and it’s forerunners secured peace and prosperity for Europe for the first time in its history. The great single market project that comprises much of its work now was a british initiative. Its bizarre that our govt should be seeking to abandon it. It can only be understood as personalities seeking power for themselves, not for the good of the British people.”

  56. Sherelle Jacobs is certainly one of the very best journalists working for the DT – her discussion of immigration is very lucid and debunks the likes of many of our politicians from both sides of the House of Commons.

    Her comment: ‘It also reflects a troubling reluctance to engage in meaningful debate’ can be applied to many other things than immigration. The facts, rather than the propaganda about Brexit and the destruction of our democracy are topics which too many politicians try to avoid.

    Liberal denial about immigration is legitimising a tragic global crisis

    SHERELLE JACOBS
    DAILY TELEGRAPH COLUMNIST
    29 OCTOBER 2019 • 6:00AM

    We should be deeply troubled by the evasive and shallow coverage of the Essex lorry deaths
    As the daughter of an immigrant, I know all too well that liberal idealism about migration is vacuous nonsense. Only those without experience of the phenomenon could regard it as metaphysically “good”. The reality is paradoxical: seeking success abroad is admitting failure in your own country; “building a new life” is cultural self-mutilation; Opportunity is Adversity with brochure gloss.

    After the Nigerian civil war ended in 1970, my dad migrated to Britain, grafting his way into a happy middle-class existence, married to an English woman and running his own business. Could he have found an easier, more unruffled happiness in a version of Nigeria that was not so dysfunctional?

    Questions like this are uncomfortable, but important to ask. Many see migration as humanity striding towards a colourful borderless utopia. Mixed-race kids like me know we are the kaleidoscopic product of a world that is fundamentally broken.

    Hence why I can’t help but bristle at the evasive and shallow discussion around the Essex lorry deaths. The Left scooped last week’s tragedy into the sweeping embrace of its own agenda with maternal quickness. Diane Abbott immediately called for “safe and legal” routes for refugees into the UK – even though there was no evidence the deceased were such. It has since emerged that many paid thousands to be smuggled into Britain for work.

    This obfuscating misapplication of the term “refugee” is deliberate. It betrays the liberal’s desire to reduce the narrative about migration to a Manichean clash of visions: the compassionate utopia of open borders versus an evil dystopia of barbed wire customs checks.

    It also reflects a troubling reluctance to engage in meaningful debate specifically about economic migration, beyond autopilot idealism about migrants’ willingness to “do jobs others won’t do” and “search for a better life”.

    In particular, few have addressed the question: Why are citizens of Vietnam – a burgeoning tech hub with a growing middle class – paying huge sums and risking their lives to work in British cannabis farms and nail bars? Like many emerging economies, Vietnam is building its wings at the same time as it takes off. Household debt has surged more than 50 times over. Social mobility trails behind growth. One of the victims, Pham Thi Tra My, was from Hà Tĩnh, where a chemical spill in 2016 killed off the local fishing livelihood. Meanwhile, in low-wage Britain, demand is booming for goods and services at rock-bottom prices from pot to mani-pedis.

    Illegal economic migration is then the byproduct of a malfunctioning global system, whereby developing countries can’t meet the expectations of their aspirational next generation, and the West is overreliant on cheap consumerism. In this context, the old cliche – lauding immigrants for being willing to do the jobs that others won’t do – legitimises a cruel status quo.

    The cliche echoing through the media that Pham Thi Tra My and others were travelling to the UK “in search of a better life” also fails to hit the mark. The aim of economic migrants is typically not to settle here, but embed themselves temporarily in underground networks, in order to accumulate enough savings to raise the socio-economic status of their family, and themselves, before returning back home.

    The self-indulgent ignorance of those who posture as outward-looking cosmopolitans is a tragedy because it means that we are not thinking deeply enough about globalisation’s effects. As well as plunging workers across the world into a race to the bottom, and luring countries like Vietnam into a “middle-income trap”, it has fuelled a ruinous brain-drain, as professionals ditch their mother countries for better work, pay and universities in the West.

    We must do more to clamp down on people trafficking (and reduce legal immigration too). But to reinvent the world economy, limiting supply of products, services and labour – which Trumpian trade wars, intellectual property enforcement and Mexican walls to aim to do – won’t be enough. A lasting solution lies in somehow expanding global demand, through higher wages and productivity in the Global South.

    While there are no easy answers, liberal romanticism prevents us from debating solutions at all. Indeed, it is staggering that our internationalist bourgeoisie should show so little interest in debating our planet’s structural economic flaws. Perhaps grand Mcnarratives for the white-guilt-ridden masses about how migration is natural because “we all come from Africa” has rendered intelligent people incapable of contextualising it within a collapsing global architecture.

    Until we desist from such hollow virtue-signalling, the stories of lucky immigrants like my father, and unlucky migrants like those who met their deaths in the back of a lorry, will never be truly grasped – and we stand a much lesser chance of changing the world.

    2. Lucky for her that a white girl couldn’t resist a black man .. Now that mindset will be the future of these islands .. We are actually done for .. thanks to the media , sofa adverts, banking adverts, holiday adverts and BBC programmes.

    3. Well said, Sherelle Jacobs…I thought it was just me as I watched the media try to turn ‘lorrygate’ into a diatribe about refugee victims…

  58. Why is it that, even when they make a valid point, female Labour M.P.’s are so stinking bloody awful ?

      1. I often wonder if being the type of left wing female politician of your observation is an unfortunate outcome of being born with sub-par looks and an imbalanced psyche ( for which they may garner a modicum of sympathy from me ) or is it that the (far)left mind set is by default so drenched in bitter ire that it corrodes the body and soul. The latter probably.

  59. How long before we have a Military Coup in UK

    If The Duke of Edinburgh were 10 years younger, he would lead it

        2. Why because you’re an upper class tosser? Judging by your comments on here give me childish any day of the week.

        1. No problem, I’ve reciprocated.
          Is there a question in there?
          I’m not stupid enough to join up and fight in dubious wars and be cannon fodder while led by “Ruperts” and even bigger morons higher up the chain of command, with but a few exceptions. It’s always the thin red line that nearly always has to prevail.
          He was involved in the monumental cock-up that was Norway?

  60. Labour kicking off already and trying to block it . Claiming 6 hours debate is not enough for a 2 paragraph bill

      1. Wasn’t she that Labour party MP who took a photo of a working class area with Union Jacks flying from their houses and poured contempt upon them? She showed her true hateful nature and has still done well in her party.

    3. Is that Jon Snow standing next to Lady Smugee?
      Thank goodness there aren’t too many white people around him.

  63. British politician Keith Vaz faces ban from Parliament for trying to buy drugs for prostitutes https://nypost.com/2019/10/29/british-politician-keith-vaz-faces-ban-from-parliament-for-trying-to-buy-drugs-for-prostitutes/
    A British politician is set to be banned from Parliament for six months after a panel of lawmakers ruled that he offered to buy cocaine for male prostitutes.

    Married dad Keith Vaz — who headed a parliamentary committee probing drug policies — was caught by a tabloid newspaper in Sept. 2016 allegedly offering to get drugs for two so-called rent boys.

    It sparked a lengthy inquiry by the House of Commons’ standards committee which on Monday recommended he be banned for six months for a “very serious breach” of code of conduct.

    The ruling is expected to end the political career for the 62-year-old Labour MP who said he was admitted to a hospital Monday because the stress of the probe left him with a “serious mental health condition.”

    “serious mental health condition.” that describes all Labour party MP’s , Lords & party activists !

          6. A very democratic place, they even vote in a new prison governor.
            They call it the Ballot of Reading Gaol.

      2. In theory it should trigger a recall although given the seriousness of it I would have thought he should be automatically be booted out

    2. Afternoon Mhmcmb,
      It could be argued that many a
      drug dealer doing more than a six month stretch currently is due compensation then, what with vazo being a law maker.

    3. Look at his biography on Wikipedia. The whole of his working life he has been a disreputable crook.
      And he is the man who invented Vazeline.

  64. Commons leader Jacob Rees-Mogg says MPs should not be “disadvantaged” by only having a day to debate the bill, as it is “simple” and “only two clauses long”.
    Normally, the various stages of legislation would be debated over several days.
    He adds that a single-day timetable to discuss the bill will also allow ministers to pass a budget bill for Northern Ireland before Parliament is dissolved.
    He says the amendment tabled by Stella Creasy, although not an amendment designed to wreck the bill, could be a “gateway” to allow such attempts.
    He says it is “standard practice” for amendments not to be taken from backbench MPs on such simple bills.

    1. I would like to know why ” Mohammed ” the Grenfell resident of the flat where the fire broke out in his kitchen & had his suitcase packed before leaving the building was never questioned by the Mets anti-terror squad?

      1. His family weren’t staying there that night, either.
        He is wise to hide: Peddy wants his shirt back and you don’t cross a Viking.

  66. Parliament to be dissolved next week. Well if the bill goes through and I would not put that at better than 50/50

  68. MPs vote on Creasy amendment

    House of Commons
    Parliament
    MPs are now voting on Stella Creasy’s amendment, which aims to ensure non-government amendments to the bill itself can be voted on separately.
    If this doesn’t pass, MPs could oppose the business motion, which could kill the bill.

  69. 2014 European Elections: We voted for UKIP
    2015 General Election: We voted for David Cameron after he promised an in/out referendum
    2016 Referendum: We voted to leave the EU.
    2017 General Election: We voted for parties which promised to honour the referendum result.
    2019 European Elections: We voted for the Brexit Party.

    How many more times do we need to vote for the same thing? And why should we trust that a vote for the main parties in the forthcoming election will count for any more than the previous ones did?

    1. At the moment the General Election is looking to be of the cards as wrecking tactics are already in place. I recon now only about 20% chance of it going through

  70. I do love a bit of scuttlebutt.
    The ‘serious mental health condition’ is known as “beingfoundoutitis”.

    “Mr Vaz said that night with the two rent boys where he pretended to be a washing machine repair man called Jim was all a dreadful misunderstanding – and that he had only wanted to chat about interior design……………….

    His spokesman said in a statement last night: ‘Keith Vaz has been treated for a serious mental health condition for the last three years as a result of the events. He has today been admitted to hospital and this office will not be making any further comments’

  71. I have no idea what is happening at the moment. Boris gave a long bullshitting speech, and Corbyn has just started speaking so I have turned off.
    Any intellectuals out there who can translate the chaos ?

    4. Some of the BTL are suggesting it might be a parody account.

      Oh really?
      If he’s that ill, why doesn’t he sniff the Chiltern Hundreds, I’m told they’re class A+

      1. Afternoon, Hatman. Nice one!

        Have you discovered the autobot down-voting wotsit on discurse? Harmless old me has lost over 10,000 votes – I don’t understand how anyone can take offence at my innocent comments…

        1. Good afternoon Bill. the up vote loss bot first began attacking thousands of Right wing posters in April – most of those attacked back then lost all their up votes & their Disqus account turned Low Rep and they can only post where they have been added by a Mod as a Trusted User . The 2nd attack began in mid-June – a slower rate of up vote loss – I got hit with it & lose around 400 up votes a day . Disqus has not fixed it & does not seem to be interested in doing so since it mostly affects right wingers . I have added you as a Trusted User on my The Coconut Whisperer blog https://disqus.com/home/forum/the-coconut-whisperer/ I hope that Geoff & the Mods on here have added all regulars as a Trusted User so that folks can post freely no matter if they have Low rep status.

          2. I don’t think we worry too much about Low rep status – the bot is busily eating up all our upvotes so soon we will all be low rep.

          5. Not till last week when Meredith pointed it out. Then I noticed I’d lost a couple of thousand.

          6. It must be a 3rd wave of attacks by the Bot program ! Unfortunately Disqus at first denied it was happening since it affected only right wingers, now they just say that they are looking into the matter ie. they are behind it but will not stop it !

        2. The vote-eater won’t affect you on this site though. 🙂

          The primary purpose of it will be to block all accounts that drop below 0 from being able to comment on large news sites, such as Breitbart and any other news site that does not clear “Pending” comments. It is left-wing censorship of those of us who believe in democracy and free speech.

          It would appear that those who want a globalist new world order are finding it difficult to defend what they are doing. 🙂

          2. That is why it will have no real effect on channels such as this one. We are small and robust. 🙂

            But they won’t make people “trusted users” on large news websites, so that is where people will be stopped from commenting as all of their words will go straight to “Pending.” What a pish-poor aspect of Disqus that is loved by those on the left who enjoy silencing debate.

          4. Do those on the left actually “debate?” I thought that they just mindlessly repeated mantras taught to them by odd looking men and women who wore berets at college. Critical reasoning is not something that the “Left” value very highly.

            It is one of the reasons that there are so many little left-wingers running around right out of school, and so few of them when they get older and gain experience of the real world. Intelligence can do wonders for limiting the appeal of socialists / marxists.

          5. Your comment on the first line is spot on. Repeating meaningless mantras is what they call “debating”….

          6. MM – this is a Blog not a Channel – a big difference! Channels were wholly on the Disqus platform, whereas Blogs like this operates in two parts – the Blog part for the article page itself ( NTTL blog uses WordPress , I use Googles ‘Blogger’ system on mine ) & a separate platform for readers comments – this one happens to be the Disqus one .

          7. Ahem – I have some understanding of online chat. 🙂

            My point was that blogs are small and have little reach. The big news channels are the ones where censorship matters. That is where being silenced has an effect. 🙂

          9. I used to post on BB but got pissed off with the very unpleasant replies – and comments generally.

            One of the advantages of NoTTL is that one is rarely subjected to vile or foul-mouthed comments…though I can think of one or two!! In Essex…

          11. mahat – I do have more than one. 🙂

            But many people do not know about the need to set up multiple email address or the value of VPN’s – they are the ones whose voices “go silent” and they are not heard from again. It must be very frustrating to lose access to a group of people that you have been speaking to for a few years, and not be able to talk to them again.

            Which is why certain key people exchange dummy email address’s so that they still have a link if their account is taken out.

  74. There was some conversation here a week or so ago about “smart” meters and whether we could be forced to have one.

    Bloke from the electricity board has just been to read the meter. Would I be interested in having a smart meter?

    I said that they didn’t work in the village because there was no signal.

    Matey replied that it had been improved and produced a winking gadget to prove it.

    I still said no. “That’s alright, sir, they are NOT compulsory,” he replied.

    1. Anything that lot say is for our benefit, is of course only for theirs. I do not trust smart meters or spy cameras or any of these new fangled inventions.
      When they start charging me for reading my own meter, I will go back to coal fires.

  75. Just dug up most of the potatoes. Very disappointing crop both in size and quantity.

    Anyone had the same?

      2. Agreed – we don’t get enough rain when it is needed.

        But in Blighty, in previous years I have produced enough to last until the end of the following April..

    4. I recounted my problems with buying just a few seed potatoes way back in the Spring. I ended up planting a few odds and sods that I had bought to cook and I didn’t expect too much, and I was right. A couple of tubers of a baking variety yielded a fair crop but the rest were not up to much. The infamous Ts were very good and I gave some to friends and family, thank you again for those.

        1. I have one very large one that I was hoping to obtain seed from. I hadn’t thought about eating it. Soup?

          1. Get the seed from the “bulb” – Use the flesh for soup (or, as we call it in yer France, “velouté”. Pretentious, moi?

        1. An apostrophe is not just an uppity comma that has got above itself – it is also a literary device meaning an exclamation. This was much used by Chaucer.

        3. I grow Damask, Centifolia and Bourbon roses, far superoir to cut roses grown under glass….

        4. Because of the wide selection. Whereas there are only a dozen or so potato cultivars generally available. And the best ones are all grown in Cornwall for supermarkets anyway.

      2. There’s are some excellent potato varieties that aren’t grown commercially, or, if they are, are rarely found in greengrocers. Sutton Foremost, Ratte and Pink Fir Apples spring to mind.

        I agree, growing King Edwards is a waste of time when much nicer spuds can be cultivated.

          1. Some years ago I smuggled some Jersey Royal seed potatoes back from Jersey. The crop was minuscule!

    7. Yes , but I put it down to me not taking good care of them and allowing them to be swamped by the trifid raspberries. Can we blame it on global warming/cooling and Brexit.

    8. There is more to life than growing potatoes. I buy mine from Tesco. It’s one of those crops best left to the professionals, unlike tomatoes etc.

      2. So do we, but sometimes we don’t use them all up, and they start to sprout, so we stick them in a tall bin filled with compost, and let them grow, and proud new potatoes. It’s fun, like getting free food.

    1. What’s new? He never shuts up. Two people one wouldn’t want to be trapped in a lift with, Blackford and Sturgeon.

        1. The hind legs off a donkey is peanuts to him – he can bore the balls off a buffalo.

          [Borrowed from Jake Thackray]

    2. The words ‘Ian Blackford’ and ‘silence’ in a sentence would really be quite something.

  78. I thought it was an amusing coincidence that David Cameron apparently delivered a probably highly paid speech at a G S part funded organization, the same one which by coincidence is allegedly linked to Jo Swinson !

    https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2017/12/14/david-cameron-soros-lecture-trumps-criticism-mainstream-fake-news-dangerous-real-enemy-russian-bots-trolls/

    This comes after David’s apparent promotion of G S’s anti Brexit agenda.

    Amusingly, according to an article in the Independent on September 15, 2019, David allegedly has a G S book on his bookshelf. I’d love to look inside the front cover to see if it’s a signed copy of the autobiography, perhaps given to David at Davos ! Just a theory but you never know as Uncle George is said to be very amiable and likes meeting interesting people.

    https://twitter.com/david_cameron/status/745176289959514113?lang=en

    1. Do you remember before the referendum Cameron said he was the most Eurosceptic prime minister ever to enter Downing Street?.

      He must be a masochist! He went to Brussels to negotiate better terms and was insulted, humiliated and given nothing at all.

      He then became an ardent Remainer.

      So if we want him to become a Brexiteer again we must be extremely nasty to him and humiliate him as much as we can because – as a masochist this is what he really wants and he might then support Leave with heartfelt gratitude.

      1. He was never a Eurosceptic in the first place, rastus. He didn’t need to BECOME a remainer, he always was one.

  79. “BBC political correspondent Nick Eardley highlights a disconnect between the Labour leader’s words and his MPs’ faces.
    Nick Eardley
    We’re up for it says Corbyn.
    Many in Labour are… but backbenchers don’t look terribly enthused right now!!”

    Well, most probably just getting comfy in the ‘job’ they got 2 years ago on a Leave manifesto. Maybe they don’t want to face their Leave voting constituents.

  80. “SNP Westminster leader Ian Blackford says it is an “absolute disgrace” that EU citizens living in the UK do not have the right to vote in general elections, adding that 16 and 17-year-olds should also “have a say” in the country’s future.”
    What ‘future’ does this country have?

      1. No question about it. Maybe to each individual spermaozoon and ovum. Swim left or swim right.

          1. I think there’s a simple ignorance of how people think.

            Labour voters are told ‘the evil rich are rich and keep you poor. I’ll make them pay for that!’ and, in reality that’s hogwash.

            The reality is that Labour voters keep believing the lies and simply don’t understand basic economics of how taxation works, the effect of high taxes (the Laffer curve) and supply and demand.

        2. Sperm v ova is not a fair fight. Millions a day to one a month is stacking the odds somewhat. Do not give Corbyn ideas.😎

        3. As the Monty Python song proclaimed: Every sperm is sacred so each should be afforded a vote if registered at the Voting WBank.

          1. Perhaps anyone that has ever set foot in Scotland should have the right to vote their then again perhaps not as the SNP were careful to allow everyone EXCEPT Scots living outside of Scotland to vote in the Independence referendum. I wonder why that was

      5. Birth.BIRTH
        ,I demand every one of my sperm is given the vote you ageist
        Won’t you think of the lost potential
        Edit
        Reminds self to read down first

    2. Some EU citizens do have the right to vote in General Elections in the UK. Citizens of the Irish Republic can vote in Parliamentary elections. If Blackford is so keen for other EU citizens to have the right to vote, he should speak to the representatives of the 27 individual states to ask for reciprocity. Somehow, I don’t think that’s going to happen before the next General Election in the UK.

      2. In general the same rules apply to UK national living i EU counties ie they can vote in local elections and EU elections but not National elections

      3. In general the same rules apply to UK national living i EU counties ie they can vote in local elections and EU elections but not National elections

      4. Disenfranchised.

        British resident in France so no vote in France because I am not French.

        No vote in Britain because resident in France for more than 15 years.

        No vote in referendum in spite of Cameron’s promise because Cameron is a nasty, dishonourable piece of excrement.

        However I am expected to pay taxes and would be sent to prison if i didn’t.

        1. rastus – don’t worry about it too much. Even if you could vote they would just ignore you. They are ignoring most of the rest of us. 🙂

    3. I think its a disgrace that the people of Pakistan, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Syria & Iraq don’t have the right to vote in UK elections and hope that an independent SNP ruled Scotland will grant them all citizenship, welfare, housing & exemption from obeying the law! ( sarcasm )

    4. If they are not British citizens, they should not have the right to vote. Otherwise, citizenship will mean nothing.
      Which is, of course, the whole idea.

    1. That is not possible it would take several weeks to update the register and we dont even have a proper record of EU nationals with Settled status. It could potentially fall foul of EU refulations as well

    2. Labour wants to move the goalposts because they think that the additional voters will vote for them. The simple solution is for the government to do the same as long as UK expatriates get reciprocal rights in the EU.

      1. Maybe, but I think your solution won’t stop the GE being swung to Lab/LibDem with Corbyn as PM.

        Especially as ex pat Brits probably like Britain being in the EU as it makes life easier for them.

          1. You think ?

            Surely anything that’s likely to squash Brexit completely is great for them ?

          3. Surely to get Brexit cancelled they’d probably agree to anything and of course they could change their minds afterwards…………..

            Do you trust the EU ?

          6. No it isn’t – they don’t want foreigners voting in their elections. And there wouldn’t be time for all 27 members to discuss and agree the change – it would have to be unanimous.

          7. Yes it is in their interests, and they could change their minds afterwards. The EU usually finds a way when it suits them.

            Do you trust the EU ?

          8. I suggest you speak to some of our expats on this board who are disenfranchised in the countries they now live in. The EU consists of 28 member states, who have the power of veto in cases like this.
            Echo.

          9. I suggest you answer my question which you have avoided twice……..

            Do you trust the EU ?

          10. I suggest you speak to some of our expats on this board who are disenfranchised in the countries they now live in. The EU consists of 28 member states, who have the power of veto in cases like this.
            Echo.

          11. Aeneas – It is a slight “rite of passage” that I have discovered in my short time here: – Learning when to ignore Pretty Polly’s comments.

            Unless you are prepared for a never-ending deluge of irrelevant, deliberate misunderstandings, and general dross in an attempt to get you to keep replying to them. It is also possible that they will mention the name “Soros.” 🙂

        2. 18 is a sensible minimum vote age as it is the minimum age you can leave Education. 18 is pretty much the n minimum voting age in the EU the only exception I am aware of is Austria where it is 16

          1. When the voting age was 21, the minimum age to leave education was 15 – the two are not related.

    1. There isn’t a pole long enough to retrieve those. Just carpet bomb the whole area and wait to see if he sends you a Christmas card.

      (He was never actually a muslim, he just liked playing with small boys and sending stupid young men to their deaths.)

  84. Harry Potter publisher Bloomsbury hit by US-China tariffs

    Perhaps they should print the books in the UK

    Interesting as well they say a 15% tariff will have little affect but a a possible 10% tariff on cars will destroy the UK car industry How come?

    Bloomsbury Publishing has become an unexpected victim of the ongoing trade war between the US and China.
    Nigel Newton, chief executive of the firm, which publishes Harry Potter among other titles, said books printed in China for the USA became 15% more expensive overnight on 1 September.
    This was as a result of tariffs being imposed by the countries on each other.
    “It is not a cost we anticipated, and it’s one we hope to take in our stride,” he told the BBC.
    The company expects the tariffs to have only a small impact on the current financial year, and says it has various ways to mitigate the impact in the future.

    1. It would be ridiculous to stop at 16. 14 year olds have on average 2 more years of the future to look forward to, so clearly they must have a say.

      1. Neat “Turk’s Head” woggle. I made one for myself when I was a Boy Scout. I suppose that was what gave me fascist tendencies?

    4. They don’t believe for one minute that reducing the voting age is the right thing to do….except for them. It’s blatant gerrymandering, nothing more. They know that after years of propaganda in schools, those under 40 will vote in favour of the EU and the socialist Left.

  86. Heidi Allen to stand down as South Cambridgeshire MP

    The real reason she is standing down is she knows she will not get re elected

    MP Heidi Allen has announced she will not stand at the next election.
    The member for South Cambridgeshire joined the Liberal Democrats earlier this month after quitting the Conservatives in February.
    Ms Allen, 44, said she had suffered “utterly dehumanising” abuse and was “exhausted” by the “nastiness and intimidation” she had faced.
    She was first elected in 2015 and announced her decision in a letter to her constituents.

    2. That’s strange, I thought she was a remainer. The real abuse has been directed at leavers.

      1. Would the EU release the goose that lays the golden eggs? I think we know that they will do anything required to keep us paying their bills. Especially as our MP’s are leading us like a fattened calf to the slaughter. Quite the menagerie are we.

        2. WE are one of only about 3 EU countries that make any real contribution to the EU budget

  88. ‘Evening all. This came through my door today:

    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/dbc66771c9ae0b7b0662f7e61b887d4896b206f59ab1af0ded0816e3c6ea2d6d.jpg

    Jo Swinson – Prime Minister? Seriously, there should be laws against this sort of thing. It’s taken a full bottle of anaesthetic to restore equilibrium, and it’s only half past four. Interestingly, nowhere in the eight glossy pages is there any acknowledgement that 40 months ago we held a referendum (aka the Wrong Sort of People’s Vote) to leave the European Union… and Leave won.

    Sigh…

          1. No worries, mm. In the last 48 hrs I’ve had one email to “Dear Graham” and an appointment at the Eye Clinic where I was called as (hard) Gee-offery Grah-harm. Twice.

    2. Johnson is reported to be proposing to run any Conservative election campaign on passing his “deal”.

      If that is really the case, all bets are off.

      It’s as bad a manifesto commitment as May’s as far as getting a working majority is concerned, splitting the leave vote in half, and could put in a DimLab coalition.

    3. Fake News! This is the new face of propaganda where the idea is to provide disinformation that undercuts the very idea of truth.

    4. I’ll laugh when the LibDems + traitors go into the election and come out with fewer members than they went in with and then Swinson gets replaced as leader, ideally by one of the traitors that she welcomed..

      1. You may laugh on the other side of your face – no one has a clue about what might happen in a general election.

          1. Frankly, I think that she knew full well that an election would be a disaster for the Conservatives – and quite deliberately went for it.

            All part of her plan (aided and abetted by the gauleiters) to thwart the sovereign will of the 17.4 million.

  89. More pleasure reading:

    Anyone else enjoying the falling apart of the People’s Vote campaign? It’s one of the funniest news stories I’ve read in months. It’s like a soap opera. EastEnders with posh people.

    And I’m not only chortling over it because I’m a Brexiteer who’s loving the Schadenfreude of seeing the kind of people who don’t respect my vote descend into bitching, backstabbing and Twitter turf wars.

    No, even more mirthful than that is the issue around which PV is pulling itself apart: the question of whether it should present itself as an openly pro-Remain group or as a neutral outfit that just wants another EU vote because it really, really likes democracy.

    I’m cracking up. Guys, I hate to break it to you, especially when your organisation is in meltdown, but everyone in the country knows you’re pro-Remain.

    Did you really think there were people out there thinking to themselves, ‘Oh look, a nice group of middle-class people want to make sure we’re all certain about Brexit by giving us another vote, how lovely’? If you did, then you’re even more out of touch with normal people than I thought you were.

    Yes, this is the story of the transformation of People’s Vote into the People’s Front of Judea, as Robert Peston describes it.

    The Remainers who run PV — we know you’re all Remainers! — are gunning for each other. There are too many moneyed organisations and elite factions to discuss in depth here, but in a nutshell the clash is between people who want PV to say ‘Yep, we back Remain’ and people who want it to be neutral on the question of how we should vote in a second referendum. Even though it was never neutral. Ever. Obviously. But for now, let’s indulge this bizarre fiction of PV’s political neutrality.

    In one corner, there’s Roland Rudd, PR mastermind and outgoing chair of Open Britain, one of the super pro-Remain groups that makes up the People’s Vote lobby. In the other corner are James McGrory and Tom Baldwin, PV’s director and head of comms respectively.

    It is reported that Rudd has forced out McGrory and Baldwin, with immediate effect. But McGrory and Baldwin turned up to PV’s offices this morning and then refused to leave. Rudd and his people refused to enter until they vacated. Imagine two Home Counties mums staring each other down over the last jar of pesto in their local Waitrose and you have some idea of the tension enveloping PV this morning.

    Everyone who’s anyone in the Remain world — we still know you’re all Remainers — is getting involved. Alastair Campbell is tweeting about it. Tony Blair is no doubt on the blower to the various protagonists. Gina Miller will be organising an emergency cocktails-and-canapés get-together to discuss the crisis as we speak.

    Brexiteers, meanwhile, are allowing themselves a few chuckles over the fact that as Boris pushes for a General Election, and the Brexit stakes rise yet again, the key second-referendum campaign is collapsing into disarray. And no, we don’t feel bad about this. Watching the wealthy, well-connected people who have tried to thwart our democratic vote become consumed by ‘political differences’ is bloody beautiful, to be honest.

    But here’s the thing, the really key thing. There aren’t any serious political differences in PV, not really. This bizarre spat is essentially over PR, over how PV should be spun to the public. Over whether it should state clearly that it favours Remain or whether it should pretend otherwise (that’s really what it would be doing) and say that it doesn’t mind if we vote Remain or Leave, it just wants a second referendum. Who do they think they would be kidding? I could have a lobotomy and still know the entire point of PV is to stop Brexit.

    Much of the tension seems to have sprung from the March For Change rally in London in July, when some PV types gathered to express their love for the EU and the desire for second-referendum people to adopt a more openly pro-Remain position.

    Some in PV circles said this rally was held at ‘the wrong time’ by ‘the wrong people’ and was giving ‘the wrong message’. They were worried that openly Remainer policies would alienate ordinary voters, especially Leavers. Just how dumb do they think Leavers are? The idea that we would align with PV in the belief that it is neutral on the EU is surreal.

    Roland Rudd is actually the voice of reason in this matter. On the Today programme this morning he said:

    ‘This is an absurd argument, everybody knows we’re made up of people who want to remain.’

    Exactly right. We all know this. It’s as plain as day. Who else apart from Remainers would want to re-run a free, fair, legal, democratic referendum in which Leave won? I don’t know a single Leaver who wants a ‘People’s Vote’ — they just want the people’s vote of 2016 to be respected.

    So, to recap — this is a clash between second-referendum campaigners who want to be honest about what they are doing (Rudd and others) and second-referendum campaigners who want to be dishonest about what they are doing (the anti-Rudd group). I’m sorry, but what a motley crew. I will continue enjoying their disarray and arguing against their cynical efforts to overthrow the real people’s vote.

    https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/10/the-joy-of-the-peoples-vote-meltdown/

  90. Antarctica fury: China ramps up claim to continent risking backlash from Trump and Putin. 29 October 2019.

    ANTARCTICA is set to become a political battleground for major superpowers as China ramps up its claim to the continent amid heated competition with the US and Russia, leaving Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin furious.

    Crucially, this treaty is up for renegotiation 2048, which despite being almost 30 years into the future, represents a golden opportunity for China to expand their resource exploration and contribute to their economic and political ambitions of worldwide dominance.

    Only thirty years away! Wow! No wonder Vlad and the Donald are so hopped up! That’s almost next week in geopolitical terms! They must be burning the midnight oil trying to think of a response! Control of Antarctica is going to give the Chinese “worldwide dominance” is it? Strange the UK has controlled large sections of it for almost a hundred years and it’s done nothing at all for us!

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1197190/antarctica-fury-china-continent-claim-trump-putin-furious-world-war-3-spt

  91. From DT Headline

    “……… our condition of taking No Deal off the table has now been met.” says Jeremy Corbyn

    Since when could an Opposition dictate what an incoming government could or could not do?

    But if this is true then there really is no alternative to the Brexit Party.

    Nobody who truly believes in Brexit should vote for the Lib/Dems, the Labour Party, the SNP or the Greens. But most of all they should not vote for the Conservative Party as Boris’s BRINO is even worse than staying in the EU.

    .

    1. Afternoon R,
      The majority of those in the parties / group you name have for years been constructing a nation fit for the felon.
      These same peoples have seen the country deteriorate
      on a daily basis & no difference was shown in the voting pattern.
      These odious growing,showing, issues , within society has not just popped up they have been building for years.

    2. I am sure Corbyn will find another excuse >Labour clearly dos not want to face another election

      1. When do the amendments to the latest bill start coming in? There must be enough rebels to come up with wrecking amendments that will make this election bill unacceptable.

        1. The debate is due to start this afternoon an the vote later today. I am not sure if they are voting on both options. The only difference in any case seems to be 3 days

    3. This must mean that the option of “No Deal” will not appear in a party’s manifesto. Surely the electorate cannot accept that. The politicians are exceeding their powers. I won’t vote for a party that hasn’t got the option of a clean break on its manifesto

      1. The Brexit Party is the only possible choice for anybody who truly believes in Brexit and would – to borrow a phrase from Mr Johnson – rather be dead in a ditch than accept BRINO.

    4. “Since when could an Opposition dictate what an incoming government could or could not do?’ Since May called a totally unnecessary election and made a pig’s ear of the campaign.
      Throw into the mix sots like Soubry, narcissists like Chuka Umanna and contrarians and traitors like Hammond and Gauke – you then have the perfect ingredients for the state in which this country now finds itself.

  92. Amendments to the bill are being published on the Parliament website.
    So far, they include:

    Giving EU citizens the vote

    Giving 16 and 17-year-olds the vote

    Changing the election date to 9 December

    Changing the election date to 7 December

    Changing the election date to 7 May 2020 and holding a referendum first

    But it will be down to the Speaker to chose which ones get selected.

      1. The speaker is supposed to be impartial, It should be done wither by a draw of the MP’s vote to decide which 3 to go forward with

  93. It seems the Reminers do not like cold weather there is a remarkable absence of them from Interviews outside the commons

  96. Nearly all the amendments should be thrown out they have nothing at all to do directly with the bill. which is just to set a date for the election so the only relevant ones are those that suggest an alternative day

      1. She spoke with a Scottish accent but more recently appears to have taken elocution lessons. These have given her an almost posh West Country accent, that of a Bathonian as opposed to a Wurzel.

      3. Given that she spends most of her time speaking through it, a particularly ripe, wet, fart sounds about right

  98. Mail to Mr R………………………..

    Globalism is a malign ideology, totalitarian in effect and execution. The aim is a world without nations and one central administrative government regulating every aspect of public and private life. It is about the dismantling of everything we know to be true and real and replacing it with lies and delusions.

    The globalist world is created and run by certain billionaires who frequently use the power of money to achieve their aims, whether through bribery or otherwise. Those who refuse to participate are to be deceived, re-educated, intimidated or silenced if they continue to resist. Such issues as national security and love of country are dismissed as quaint old-fashioned notions that no longer apply..

    Globalism has at it’s heart an evil & narcissistic desire for power and control, it is about the destruction of the individual and the submission of populations for profit to the powerful and wealthy.

    Needless to say, the EU and UN are central to the globalism dream because the influencing of global policy through supra national organizations also has multi billion dollar profit opportunities, resulting in a vast transfer of wealth to the controlling billionaire elite.

    Polly

  99. General Election or No General Election

    My gut feeling is the opposition parties are going to block it

  102. Donald Tusk

    ✔

    @eucopresident

    To my British friends,

    The EU27 has formally adopted the extension. It may be the last one. Please make the best use of this time.

    I also want to say goodbye to you as my mission here is coming to an end. I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

    14.1K
    5:30 PM – Oct 29, 2019

    It may be the last one? I should hope so.

    1. And badbye to you, you snivelling, foul-mouthed, foam-flecked oaf.

      With luck, your compatriots will not allow you back into Poland.

    2. It was. And they are intending to push it oh, so much further down the road to hoping to delegitimise and make an irrelevance of the result.

      If they had followed the democratic principle and a democratic route, there would have been no ‘mess’ to sort out. It would have been straightforward. All it took was political will, which simply wasn’t there. This begs the question, as democracy is Parliament’s job, why wasn’t it there? Why has it disappeared?

      1. Forget the “what if”s, poppiesmum. We are where we are. Let’s hope we get a quick December 12 election and drain the swamp of Remainer MPs. Then we can get on with our lives and (hopefully) a new (Leave) Government can start to tackle the country’s problems (which are many, and include the many bad bits of Boris’s BRINO deal).

          1. I live in hope, poppiesmum. Some on here call it naivety. They may be right, they may not. December the 13th and thereafter will tell.

          2. I lived in hope until the other day when Johnson said that ‘no deal’ was now off the table. Exit was almost within reach, all he had to do was to take a deep breath and go for it. I started to waver over the line of optimism when we reached, and passed 29 March. I realised that date meant to our professional rats exactly what they wanted it to mean at that time, nothing more, nothing less. We are now into our fourth year and…… nothing.
            I will have to dig up my buried optimism, haul my big girl pants from the drawer and sally forth once again to face the onslaught. This pessimism will not do. They WILL win if we become downhearted. Once more unto the breach, dear Elsie and fellow nottlers. Off to the barricades.

    4. The dishonest lying piece of excrement promised me a vote in the referendum and went back on his word.

      May the lying scumbag rot.

      VOTE BREXIT PARTY

    5. Evening Rik,
      Privately he said, I’ll make em pay,and he did , every
      man jack, with his delights of staying in the eu leaflet.

          3. I know. I once said – a chink in the curtains – without thinking, and it was moderated out with a loud noise.
            Not on Disqus, somewhere else.

  105. Boris really need to come to an agreement with the Brexit Party. It is a win win situation. In my view it is just madness for the Conservatives not to come to an arrangement

    1. So work it out yourself why Johnson doesn’t want an agreement. Suggest you cast your mind back to his “victory” speech on 24th June 2016 where he makes reference to others, then.

      1. If he wants to remain PM in my view he needs to do a deal. If you look at Electoral Calculus which uses a pol;of polls it shows a 58 seat majority for Boris but that’s a few weeks old and the polls only given an indication and generally during a campaign things normally move away from the incumbent party. Also Boris’s failure to get us out of the EU would also impact the Conservatives

        1. Why do you think he wants to remain PM? He has a job to do and that is to make sure we don’t leave the EU. The same job he had when he was supposedly leader of Vote Leave. Then we had the Tory leader election farce, what was the reason he had to withdraw? The only contest there was to see who could come up with the lamest excuse to withdraw. So if he couldn’t be PM back in 2016 why is he PM now? Why do you think they are bothered about the Conservative Party? All TPTB are interested in is keeping us in the EU. All 650 will do as they are told.

    2. Bill, as I commented yesterday, Farage believes Johnson is going to fight the election on his modified May (trap) WA. Therefore the Brexit Party cannot support that and a pact is not on the cards. Johnson is clearly going to lie about the real effect his deal will have and that fact could be his undoing as the other parties will take him to task on it. Repeating, “Lets get Brexit done,” ad nauseam during the election is going to bore people to the edge of madness. If the polls start to swing against Johnson he may have to re-think his strategy but by then it may be too late.

      2. Who is the more honest about Brexit, Farage or Johnson?

        Farage has never been in favour of a sell-out deal and has concluded that a complete break from the EU is the only honourable and true answer. He has been honest, consistent and truthful throughout.

        Boris started his time as prime minister by saying that we would be leaving the EU on October 31st ‘Deal or No deal’ but he has gone back on his word just as Mrs May did when she lied in saying “No deal is better than a bad deal” and “Brexit means Brexit.” The truth is that neither of their Brexit deals were Brexit – they were BRINO subiectong Britain to many more years of vassalage and slavery.

        Now who amongst the member of the ERG has cave in to BRINO in the mistaken belief that it will help their party? How many of them should now have visible white feathers pinned to them?

        Mark Francois
        John Redwood
        Steve Baker
        William Cash
        Richard Drax
        Owen Paterson.

        Are there any of these whom we can still trust?

        Anyone with integrity who honestly wants a proper Brexit has no alternative to voting for the Brexit Party.

        1. I have a feeling that most of the Tories are being swept along with the mini-tsunami of Johnson’s supposed popularity (Bounce?) They are, I believe, going to be sorely disappointed if he gets a majority and signs away our freedom as May intended to do.
          Redwood remains unhappy with the WA as he has consistently campaigned along the lines that we do not require one. He has offered his ideas but they have all fallen on the stony ground at May’s and Johnson’s feet.
          I speculated a few weeks ago that Johnson could turn out to be a charlatan and a fraud; sadly it is looking as though I am correct. All that initial bluster has turned out to be just that, empty bluster.

        2. Johnson never had any intention of going for a ‘no deal’ – that has become obvious now. As October 31st is hoving into sight he declared, yesterday evening, that a ‘no deal’ was now off the table. All that came before was showmanship bluster. He was using ‘no deal’ as a means only with which to terrify and manipulate Parliament into voting in May’s (very slightly amended) W/A. To some extent he was also manipulating the general public, to get them onside. I despise him now along with 649 of the others. I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt in the first instance but he has shown his hand.

      3. Well not coming to an arrangement over seats to fight just reduces the Brexit Parties ability to hold Boris to account

  106. 5:17pm
    Amendments on lowering voting age and EU nationals have NOT been selected
    Deputy Speaker Lindsay Hoyle hasn’t selected any of the amendments to lower the voting age or give EU nationals the vote.

    However, there will be a vote on whether to have a Dec 9 election.

    3. Provisional amendments chosen

      A provisional list of amendments has been published, having been chosen by the deputy speaker Lindsay Hoyle.

      The first is to change the election date to 9 December – put forward by Labour.

      The second is a technical amendment that backs up the first.

      And the final amendment is from the government to change the registration date for voting to the same as the rest of the UK.

        2. Not a clue I can only assume at least one of the nations has a different last date for registering to vote.

  107. Looking at the commons schedule it looks as if their half term break has been cancelled and I cannot see a Christmas one neither

    1. Evening A,
      Rhetorically yes,action wise a bit more difficult for many as it involves denying the said party candidate a kiss in the ballot booth.
      We would never have got to where we are today as a nation if we stepped outside the regular voting pattern.

  109. Well at present it looks as if the odds have changed again and it is looking to a 90% chance of a General Election

  110. If they go with the 9th the schedule is still tight. There has to be 25 working day notice given for a General Election so it will have to be nodded through fast. If the Commons or Lords play silly beggars it will scupper it

      1. Some female MP waffled o that they want the election on the 9th as it allows more young people to vote quite why having it earlier achieves that I have not a clue nor do I think Labour no why

    2. They’re threatening to remove the vote for over 70s would that include Ken Clarke or would he get exemption…

      3. “You’re right, you’re right, you’re right. The hot dog, the Brooklyn Dodgers. Mom’s apple pie. That’s what everyone’s fighting for.
        But who’s fighting for the decent folk? Who’s fighting for more votes for the decent folk?
        There’s no patriotism, that’s what it is. And no matriotism, either.”

        Catch-22

  112. House moving to Committee stage so Bercow has to be evicted and deputy speaker takes over

  113. the 9th of December seem to be impossibly tight as there is a complication. Due to the NI parliament not sitting Westminster needs to pass the budget for NI
    others wise it will have no money and that will tie up almost a week of WEstminsters time

          4. Vaguely apropos, for generations, the High Court of Australia (their top layer appeal court) followed the decisions of the House of Lords.

            In 1961, there was a case in England (DPP v Smith) where a criminal was told by a PC to stop and have his car searched for stolen goods. The crook refused and drove off – the PC tried to stop him but fell from the car and was killed by some poor sod driving the other way.

            Smith was charged with murder and convicted but the Court of Appeal (still with me?) overturned that verdict and said it was manslaughter. The House of Lords reinstated the murder conviction.

            In 1963, the High Court of Australia refused to followed the DPP v Smith decision. This was earth shattering. A colony in rebellion…
            But it was a classic instance of a country that had always followed the rules set by the mother country decided to go its own way, and become, if you like, truly independent.

            A fuller account of the event can b found here (for those of you still awake:

            https://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/UNDAULawRw/2011/4.pdf

            All very technical but for a 23 year old articled clerk – and amazing example of a bolt from the blue changing everything.

            I’ll get me wig….

          5. And I would go with the Aussies over that one.

            Cases where the outcome rests on happenstance, in this case the poor sod coming the other way, are unsound.

          6. More like a Clitocracy given a number of stupid women on the Opposition benches. I give you Jo Swinson, Jess Phillips, the Eagle Sisters and Diane Abbott.

      3. More correctly a Non Functioning assembly although they apparently are still being paid. Perhaps if they stopped paying them it might focus their minds

  114. Will Boris get all Conservative candidates to sign up to Brexit to stop them rebelling

        1. And what would be the punishment, exactly?? Losing the whip again? They’re being allowed back in just so they can betray the government, party, and voters again? I wouldn’t let them back, under any circumstances.

    2. Makes no difference.

      They promised to support Brexit at the last election and went back in their word. They are dishonourable liars, cheats and scumbags.

      VOTE BREXIT PARTY

  115. Final commons vote expected about 19:45 if that goes ok it goes to the Lords tomorrow, If they add amendments it will back to the commons
    My gut feeling is the Lords wil not dare to make amendments and even if they did the Lords Speaker could throw them out

    1. If the Lords dithered for days could they force the election to be on the 12th because of timing requirements?

      1. The date is not yet decided but the 9th is very tight particularity as essential NI legislation has to be passed

          1. Well without knowing the date and when the bill will be passed as well as when the NI bill is passed it is difficult to say

            The simple approach is to work backwards. You have to give 25 working days notice for a general election It will be at least Friday before the bill gets on the statute book

        1. Well, most of them are in their 70’s and older, so I’ll defer to your greater experience of dithering.

          2. Well I sort of agree. They re supposed to Peer review Westminster legislation but instead they pee on it

  116. How many of the MP’s that have flitted from party to party will get re elected? As far as I can tell none are held in high regard so I suspect hardly any will be re elected

  117. Bill Wrecked already. in conjunction with the speaker Waiting to see if Government now pulls the Bill

  119. If there is a General election, and a Government is formed, that Government will be the third to have to deal with Brexit. This is starting to look like “Pass the Parcel”.

  120. To overcome Corbyns objection on days how about voting on a Saturday. In most or Europe they vote on a Sunday. If it were Sunday in the UK the Churches would probably object

    1. Security has been tightened up but the problem at present the main check is a signature and they are not really checked. The only thing that is checked is a signature and that it appears to resembles the name

      Going forward they are looking at an electronic ID check something like that used for home banking

  122. That’s me for today. Good news – the builder chap rang to say he is coming round here tomorrow at 8,30 am.

    And the painter chap who was supposed to have finished the whole of the outside while we were in Laure
    – but never appeared – rang to say he’d be round next week…..

    There is a God (allegedly). Play nicely and explain to your infant grandchildren just how to vote for The Brexit Party….

    A demain

  123. MP Rating system

    I think we need an MP rating system. Suggest along the lines of the following

    1) Attendance

    2) Voting

    3) Defying Whip

    4) Defying Manifesto

    5) Criminal record

    6) Expenses fiddling

    7) Party flitting

    1. Representing constituents views? If an MPs constituents have clearly expressed their view on a subject that differs from the party manifesto, should the MP get brownie points for following the manifesto or for speaking up for constituents?

  124. The props of treachery are finding use as in gove the assassin & the knife in the leadership farce all players returned to the cabinet.
    Now we have boris and the whips, they cannot stay away long, lifestyles at stake.

    2. Sooooo sad. Of course, ISIS treated all their sick prisoners with care and consideration.

  129. The Snowflake next door has a People’s Vote poster in her window. As a kindly and caring neighbour, I’m thinking of giving her printed copies of this article plus a couple of other on the PV meltdown:

    The PVers have fallen out at the final hurdle

    The idea of a “People’s Vote” (PV) has always caused me agonies. On the one hand, it is undoubtedly the most tricksy and divisive of all the ruses invented to frustrate the Leave vote of 2016; and therefore dangerous. On the other, it is also so transparently dishonest and politically impossible to achieve that I have seen it as a welcome cul-de-sac down which to divert Remainer energies.

    PV is based on a version of the Marxist idea of “false consciousness”: the poor, stupid workers did not mean to vote the way they did, but were fed lies by capitalists/the Right-wing media. Rightly guided by Tony Blair, Peter Mandelson, Alastair Campbell and so on, they would vote the “right” way if given a second chance.

    Now that it really is almost the last chance to stop Brexit, the PVers have fallen out. The Liberal Democrats and SNP are abandoning ship, preferring what they claim is a general election which may mean we do not leave at all. The remaining Remainers are split between those who think the PV campaign should admit that it is a Remain front organisation and those – including the gentlemen named above – who are inveterately committed to a politics which does not mean what it says.

    That sort of politics drove many to vote Leave. “People’s Vote”, like “People’s Democracy” in the Communist era, means people doing what they are told.

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/10/29/maddening-tactics-peoples-vote-campaign-may-soon-end/

    1. Will you post it with a brick through the window?

      A Leave poster in your window might attract such.

    1. Not really.

      They are members of a private club and they pay a subscription.
      The club sets the rules.

      When I ran a youth club, members as young as 10 could vote for who they wanted as “captain” and on the management committee.

      Non members could not vote.

      Just being there does not ensure one is a member, nor does it, nor should it give rights.

      1. Hmm. I’d still say there’s a bit of a difference between a youth club and a major political party but it’s more ammo for Tory critics.

        1. Why?

          The principles are similar, it is a private club.

          The club can vote to disallow or disagree with anything in the “outside world” whilst accepting them within their own area of influence.

          If I believe that nobody under 30 should vote and everyone in my club who is under 30 agrees and votes that way, it isn’t hypocrisy it’s a matter for the membership. That’s how democracy should work.

          If the wider “club”, the general electorate, outvotes me I accept that.

          Unlike the real hyocrites who want to overturn the majority decision.

          It is no different from a LibDem or Green constituency electing a LibDem or Green. Their policies are contrary to the majority but they can’t demand that the majority follows their rules.

          1. Can’t you understand the difference between the leader of a youth club and a potential prime minister?

          3. Try and understand how embarrassing it is (or could be) for the Tories. That’s the subject here.

          4. Again, why?

            Only because fools want to make an issue of it. Do you really think that the odd 15/16 year old who joins the party has any genuine influence within it at the time?

            I guess you’ve supped to much Kool Hague.

          8. I’ve an idea they might want to join because they’ve heard the Young Conservatives have good piss-ups.

  131. Jo Swinson ( wearing a poppy ) is holding the floor at the moment.
    If she’d only said ” yes ” to Harvey Weinstein, she could have been top of the pops in Hollywood now.
    Her declamatory style reminds me of a performance of Saint Joan that I saw many years ago.

    1. The Inuit have been complaining for some time about the increasing number of polar bears around their settlements.

      Greenies say that this is because the few remaining bears have been driven from their natural hunting grounds, the Innu have more practical concerns about staying alive.

    2. Modern legal and woke thinking has it that even if you have proof to back up your ideas and reality, you are still wrong. Think bears or trannies but try not to think of bare trannies.

  134. “Ban 9am lectures for students, experts say
    Researchers say
    traditional education and work start times of 9am mean young adults are
    likely to underperform as a result of learning at a time which feels
    unnatural to them”
    As someone who has worked 6 til 6 day and night shifts my sympathy is underwhelming

    1. Clearly the uni day should be reduced to 3 hours day as later in the day i their drinking time

    2. Back 10 years ago when I was still earning my crust my office backed onto a converted 4 story office building crammed with University of Woe ( West of England) students, quite often the fire alarm would sound around midday and I could watch the spectacle of 50-100 bleary eyed herberts stumbling like nocturnal mammals ripped untimely from their duvetty wombs blinking in the full light of day, I guess the only thing they started at 0900hrs was REM phase sleep.

      as a P.S. I started at 0700 and occasionally worked until 2200

      1. TBF such snowflakery is not new,when I found what considered my best ever summer job age 16 breaking artics of fruit and veg onto smaller lorries for Covent Garden,Bristol and Birmingham markets at 50p an hour the attraction was you could work 20/30 hours straight,two sessions a week was ok.
        I didn’t make that much money again until I was in my 20’s,when I turned my fellow rugby players on to it none of them could hack it
        I was drinking large brandy and soda’s as they hunched over their halves of mild

  135. 18 is a sensible age and is the minimum age for voting in nearly all European countries

    a) You cannot leave education until 18
    b) You cannot by alcohol until 18
    c) You cannot smoke until 18
    d) You cannot borrow money until 18
    e) In general you cannot work after 10pm if under 18
    f) You cannot sell cigarettes or alcohol if under 18
    g) You cannot sell knifes or blades to anyone under 18
    i) You cannot stand for election i f under 18
    j) You cannot serve on a jury if under 18

    One oddity is you can marry at 16 and clearly in my view that should be raised to 19. No 16 year old can support themselves without recourse to the taxpayers

    The only reason Labour and the Lib-Dems want 16 is they will buy their freebie offers and they know that 16 years olds will not be picking the tab up for them

    1. You pay tax at 16.

      For me, the problem isn’t age, it’s understanding of the issues. We need to stop thinking about it in terms of age but knowledge and contribution. Why should an individual who doesn’ understand the relationship between tax and debt and unemployment be allowed to demand higher taxes on someone else when they themselves will never pay them?

    2. If it was up to me, I’d raise the voting age to 25. Today’s youth have been infantilised. A significant proportion are still living at home with mummy and daddy. And for those that aren’t, it takes a little while for life to take effect.

      1. A little high but 21 would be sensible when you cannot leave education till 18 and about 50% go too uni so will not leave until 21

        1. I would raise it to 100.

          IQ.

          That would eliminate huge numbers of Labour voters in London, Luton, Bradford, Leicester etc.etc etc.

    3. But Labours Peter Tatchell wants the age of consent reduced to 11-12 so that he can have his way with young boys & I am sure that the Muslims want the age of marriage reduced to age 6 so that they can honor their prophet & marry 6 year old virgins !

  137. December the 12th appears to be the date to write on the calendar, at least that’s what the MSM are telling us. I think my calendar has another date on it to take note of; 31st October. I haven’t forgotten it and I think a lot of other people haven’t either. Boris’s deal is May’s WA with lipstick. I can’t see a Con/TBP pact with candidates standing down etc. My immediate future lies with The Brexit Party.

  138. So we now have five weeks of wall to wall lies before us, with some Remainers promising that they will respect the voters wishes “this time” and others saying that they will have a 2nd referendum or revoke Article 50 altogether. None of these options inspire the heart to sing. You already know the lies that we are going to hear, and the only party that will actually take us out of the EU will be smothered by the media. It is tempting to turn the TV off for a month and just cut to the car chase.

    This is it though. Voting for Boris, Corbyn (HA!) or Swinson means still being in the EU five years from now under the heel of Brussels, with an empty Treasury and almost unrecoverable debt. The EU will do to the United Kingdom what it has done to Greece, Italy, Spain and every other country that it can crush with debt. This will happen even if it is Boris who wins and he gets his deal though.

    So we need to decide for ourselves. Do we believe the unbiased globalist message that nothing can change and resistance is futile. Or do we vote for our country to be free again? I know my choice is made. If I am going to go down then it will be while trying to do the right thing at the ballot box. Before we are forced to go down “in the field” in the inevitable struggle that will follow if we give the EU another five years to invade us with open borders.

    No pressure though.

  139. This election chooses who negotiates with the EU come 2020 and with what strength. For me, it’s no contest – it has to be Johnson with a good safe majority (even though I will vote BXP in Birmingham Selly Oak) and far fewer Remainers amongst his MPs. All this “I’m not voting”, “I’m disgusted with all of them” talk leads nowhere or to Labour/LibDEm/SNP coalition and further referendums.

    1. We have to get out and vote for somebody who can be trusted (ha!) to believe in Brexit. Trouble is, they’ve lied and lied, said one thing and done another so often it’s hard to have faith in anybody from the three main parties plus the Greens.

    2. LewisDuckworth – Boris is a hard core globalist, as only one of those would be prepared to cause such catastrophic damage to the United Kingdom as that deal he is trying to get through will achieve. It is far worse than where we are now. I have read on many sites how this deal will wreck our country. It is not a step towards freedom, it is a leap into slavery.

      But this information is easily available and I would put up a link if I did not need to run into the night now. The absolute worst case scenario for this country is Boris winning with a majority, as this will allow him to steamroller this national suicide note through. That is coming from a traditional Conservative (me.)

      As the damage unfolds this will become clear, but by then it will be unstoppable for at least 5 years. We will lose our country. I hope that there are enough people who find this out before it happens. Have a good night chap.

      1. I am not quite sure who who you are and if you have been here in another guise but I find myself agreeing with much of what you write. You have balance, which sometimes is lacking here.

    3. What does Johnson have to do to show you he has never had any intention of delivering Leave from the moment he parachuted himself in, late in the day, to be the “leader” of Vote Leave?

      1. I have always contended that Vote Leave was made the official leave campaign precisely because those running it did not actually want to leave. Their performance here (we voted to leave 60/40) was dismal. Insufficient posters to distribute and no initiative in setting up street stalls (although they did occasionally turn up in ones or twos to stand with us (us being UKIP).

        1. Yes. I offered my services to Vote Leave and we never had one stall while Remain were out every Saturday. But I had a job that put me in contact with the public and was able to hand out their leaflets and persuaded a good number into voting for Leave in what was a high sixties percent vote. But I sincerely believe 80% was achievable with proper canvassing.
          I’ve posted this article by Gove’s wife all over the place it tells you all you need to know.
          https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3665146/SARAH-VINE-Victory-vitriol-craziest-days-life.html

  140. Evening, all. As voters’ faith in democracy is non-existent, it’s hard to see how it can be further undermined.

    1. Over the coming months, I’m certain that TPTB will conclusively prove beyond a doubt that we don’t have democracy. But then again when have they ever done anything for the majority?

      1. They are terrified of the majority so the preferred course of action is to slice and dice it: north against south, poor against wealthy, non-smokers against smokers, thin against fat, disabled against the able-bodied, labour against conservative etc, you get the idea, and lately into the ring we have (and this is a real goody for tptb), ta-daaah….. remainers against leavers. Democracy therefore not required – divide and rule is that at which the British are so good.

  143. – Who could possibly consider voting for any of the mainstream parties after their behaviour over the last three years?

    Remember Einstein’s definition of insanity

  144. It is not yet over the line but the chances of it now failing is remote. The main things the Lords can do is delay the bill. There is a remote chance they could come up with an amendment and the commons voting to accept it but what that amendment could be I don’t know. The many amendments have already been ruled out

  146. O’Neil

    “It’s on. At last. A General Election. For weeks Labour and the Lib Dems blocked

    Boris Johnson’s plea for an election. They engaged in a deeply cynical

    form of voter suppression, denying the public the thing we so urgently

    need: the democratic right to pass judgement on this zombie parliament and on its members who are brazenly reneging on the promise they made in their 2017 manifestos to uphold the vote for Brexit.

    But today, finally, Jeremy Corbyn and others, perhaps aware that

    continually preventing an election made them look like cowards and

    autocrats, have relented. They now say they will back a public vote.

    About time. Bring it on.”

    https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/10/29/this-election-is-a-fight-for-the-soul-of-democracy/
    For once bollocks to Brendan,none of the major parties are offering us a clean exit
    TBP it is the rest have betrayed democracy

  148. We are prepared to allow the EU to trade with us but this will require an annual payment of £15B

  149. It will be interesting to see a few polls conducted after todays vote

    i would suspect Labour faces a 3 way split of its vote. Some will go to Lib-Dems, some will go to Conservatives and some to Brexit Party

    The Conservatives face loosing some votes to Lib-Dems, some to Brexit party and maybe a few to Labour

  151. I just hope the Brexit party are ready we have had almost zero information from them. I think they will be better targeting seats rather than trying to fight every seat and spreading themselves to thin

  152. Chimney death

    Well it is confirmed there was a ladder to the top. One wonders why they did not use it. Maybe they were concerned he might fall and hit anyone on the ladder

    The Ladder was lft there following work on the chimney although the bottom 15ft had been removed. I assume the work was fitting those metal straps around the chimney

    1. Well Boris has pulled it off in spite of the dice being loaded against him. He had something like a -40 majority and many of his own party working against him. The outcome at present is not ideal but remember although at present No deal is off the table it could be back on after the election particularly with the ongoing DUP issue. The only real solution is a trade deal with the EU, A lot depends on if Boris gets a good working majority

      1. Pulled it off you soppy ****??
        He promised no ifs no buts we were leaving by the 31st
        Abject failure!!!
        Give hin a majority and we get the WA Mk4 bondage treaty
        Fluck That

        1. He had to work with the hand he had. Having got a General Election we are back with a blank sheet of paper

        2. Rik, there are still so many who cannot or will not see Johnson for what he is, an establishment remainer in the same mould as Cameron and May.
          Just consider his performance in trying to kill the Benn Act, filibustering or the lack of it should show the electorate his true colours.
          In Johnson’s mind the important things are Johnson for PM, Tory Party then EU then country, and in that order.
          I am going to have to start doing Yoga, I’ll need the flexibility to pull the knife out of my back!

      2. The Withdrawal Agreement is not just about trade. Unfortunately, both May and Johnson fell into the same trap of keeping the UK under the thumb of Berlin in order to get a promise of talks about trade.

        1. The Remainers may well have played into Boris’s hand, The ruled out the deal and have only blocked no deal until after the election so as longs as Boris wins with a decent working majority. After the General Election we have a strong mandate to restart negotiation with the EU

          1. I think that Julia Hartley Brewer had the right answer.

            She said she would have gone to the EU and said we are leaving the EU. We are happy to offer a free trade deal and we hope you will reciprocate. If you impose tariffs on us we shall impose ther same tariffs on you. Take it or leave it.

            J.H-B would make a good member of a proper Brexit cabinet after the election.

            VOTE FOR THE BREXIT PARTY

            (I have been robbed of my rights to vote by Blair and Cameron which is why I am making my position clear on each of my posts).

  154. In the wake of rumours that Wee Krankie will resign in the event of the SNP losing seats at the coming GE, it’s widely expected that the party’s tradition of selecting leaders with ichthyic names, such as Salmond and Sturgeon will continue.

    The bookies have Fergus MacFishery and Captain Archibald Haddock running neck-and-neck in the race to assume the Leader’s mantle.

    1. Be interesting to see things go in Scotland. The SNP give the impression that it is riding high but I am not so certain

  155. Prime Minister Boris Johnson has threatened to pull his bill for a December 12 election if amendments to allow 16 year olds and EU citizens to vote pass in parliament tonight.

    The PM’s official spokesman told reporters that it would be “logistically impossible to deliver” the changes in time for a national vote in little more than five weeks’ time.

    Does that mean that the cretins might actually consider such changes in the future?
    It would not surprise me.

      1. Disband Supreme Court and return power to the Law Lords. Some things that weren’t broken were ‘mended’ and what a mess.

      2. Disband Supreme Court and return power to the Law Lords. Some things that weren’t broken were ‘mended’ and what a mess.

  157. My local Tory MP voted for brexit every time. If she stands I will vote for her. If not it will be the Brexit Party.

    I urge people not to vote for people that have tried to spoil brexit.

    1. Did she not vote for Theresa May’s WA on the 3rd attempt, like mine did and Boris Johnson did and Jacob Rees-Mogg did? If she didn’t, she was just one of 34 Tory MPs who did not.
      Edit; one of 34.

        1. I checked the Norfolk Tory women,who voted for it, but then remembered you moved to Kent or somewhere.

          1. The only ‘lady’ MPs who were against all 3 WA votes were, Theresa Villiers, Priti Patel, Anne Marie Morris, Julia Lopez, Andrea Jenkyns, Justine Greening and Suella Braverman. The thin line of Brexit.

          2. Didn’t some of them (e.g. Justine Greening) have pro-EU motives in so doing?

            Judas Grease Smogg and Boris Johnson both voted for the May Surrender the third time it was presented. Without a pact with Nigel Farage neither of them should be trusted one inch.

            VOTE FOR THE BREXIT PARTY

            (I have been robbed of my rights to vote by Blair and Cameron which is why I am making my position clear on each of my posts).

          6. As did Boris and Mogg. It will be easy not to vote for any of them. I think farage is the only real answer.

    2. I wrote to my MP, a staunch Leaver (who resigned her post as a PPS early on in the whole T May cock-up, but whom I believe wobbled at the third fence) back in March after the Chequers debacle (I christened it ‘Taxigate’ © because of the taxis at the gate in my letter to her, such a shame that the name never caught on), telling her that if we were still in the EU at daybreak on 30th March I would never vote for her treacherous party again, despite her personal stance.

      I stand by that.

      However, if the Brexit Party were to stand against her in our constituency (Berwick) I would not vote for them either. I agree 100% with their position, but our MP returned the constituency to the Tories in 2010 after almost 40 years of Alan Beith, so a split vote here would almost certainly let the Unliberal Anythingbutdemocrats back in, with attendant consequences.

      Let us hope that Farage keeps his powder dry and goes for the option that doesn’t create the result he and I are against by putting Tories out of their seats to the benefit of the mutual enemies. He needs a power base, but it needs to be a solid alliance.

      1. It is up to Boris to have both the common sense and the humility to make a pact with the Brexit Party and go for a clean Brexit.

      2. It is up to Boris to have both the common sense and the humility to make a pact with the Brexit Party and go for a clean Brexit.

  159. Some Conservatives MP’s that were expelled are having the Whip restored

    I assume they are having to sign that they will behave in future

    2. PM restores the Conservative whip to ten of the 21 Tory rebels: Alistair Burt, Caroline Nokes, Greg Clark, Nick Soames, Ed Vaizey, Margot James, Stephen Hammond, Steve Brine, Richard Harrington, Richard Benyon

    8. Treachery should never be rewarded so if this is true it is an outrage.

      VOTE BREXIT PARTY

      2. The end justifies the means, Richard. If this gets us out of the EU (albeit with a dodgy deal) I see it as progress, even if not perfection.

          1. Exactly. They will spend years arguing…. it seems the withdrawal agreement (apart from the nitty gritty which indicates the w/a is a Treaty of Further Integration) is an agreement about how that withdrawal will take place.
            This procedure will take at least twenty years of discussions, further agreements; the will to live will have been lost and they will all eventually say, ‘just let’s forget it!’ as the older generation will have died, or be in the process of dying off. Unless the whole thing collapses first. These sort of unions do no not have a history of longevity. But it will be misery for all when it does disintegrate.

      3. I will if I can, but this is s. Cambs. It is unlikely a Brexit candidate will make a show here, one of the safest of conservative seats. So I (and poppiesdad) will not be voting. And to think it was handed on a plate to Heidi Allen – it just shows what a pretty face can do for you, but when you discover the soul of the person, as always it appears not pretty at all. A trick of the devil.

  160. I think our politicians are living in a dream world. Nobody in their right minds will vote for any of them.

    1. T,
      Sad to say they will ,this nation will never be able to maintain the state it is in currently, without their vote.

  163. Well if they wish to stop people over 70 voting it should also mean NO MP’s over 70 and No Lords over 70 and no judges over 70

  168. The choices we face

    a) SNP Pro Remain
    b) Greens Pro Remain
    c) Plaid Pro Remain
    d) Lib-Dems Pro Remain
    e) Labour Difficult to know but I think BRINO is the best guess
    f) Conservatives DEAL but possibly No deal hard to be sure
    g) Brexit Party No Deal
    h) UKIP No Deal

Comments are closed.